(edited by expandas.7051)
Hey guys,
I discovered a neat behavior for Mantras and wanted to share it with you. There was a period of time before where Mantra skill cooldowns would tick down after you had finished channeling the skill. This was very strong in game modes like WvW because you jump into the fray, use all of your Mantra sequence skill charges, then immediately charge the skill back up again. I believe I now know exactly how ArenaNet patched this behavior and how you can now cheat the skill cooldowns with Continuum Split.
After rewatching one of my videos which you can find here, I noticed I was able to consume the remaining charges for both Mantras during Continuum Split, and then have those skills available to channel again after leaving CS. This was really interesting behavior and I did some testing to figure out what was happening.
It turns out that Mantra skill cooldowns still tick down after you channel them. However, ArenaNet changed the corresponding sequence skills, e.g., Power Return, Power Break, to reset the skill cooldowns each time you use one. However, the skill cooldowns don’t stop ticking! You might have noticed this whenever you’ve change heal/utility skills off of Mantra and back to it.
Knowing this, there are two ways you can cheat the Mantra skill cooldowns. Method A is to simply cast the Mantra skill and wait out the cooldown (ticking internally) before using all charges during Continuum Split. Method B is to use all but the last charge on the Mantra before waiting out the cooldown and comboing with CS. Method A is more efficient and could see use in PvE applications whereas Method B is more practical in PvP/WvW scenarios where you’re unlikely to have very long CS durations.
I also want to you guys know that I’ve been collaborating with my guildie Arete, who is a WvW moderator for Metabattle, to update the page for Mesmer in WvW. The new build takes a Mantra based approach, similar to the one in this guide. We’ve even min/maxed the boon duration with the new living story nourishment and stacking sigil so you now longer need the expensive concentration sigils. This massively simplifies your rotations because you no longer need to time things with weapon swap. You can check it out here: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Support_Chrono
Lastly, this is my final post on the forums. Unfortunately I no longer have the time nor heart to continue playing this game. It’s been explicitly stated that there are to be no intrinsic improvements to WvW for the rest of the year and given their record I do not have confidence that things will ever change. I’d like to thank all those who have set out time over the years to prepare resources and help out others on this forum. Its your ingenuity and dedication to this class that have helped keep Mesmer one step ahead and rebounding after each setback. Keep up the good work!
(edited by expandas.7051)
It’s definitely an interesting change. One thing that I like is that you can run Imagined Burden (GM, Domination) and apply cripple to every single person that is struck by the boomerang. A similar effect (but with immobilize) also occurs with the new Phantasmal Warden skill albeit only affecting three targets. I’ll throw on my Vigilant’s gear tonight for reset and see if there’s any potential.
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I’ve got some new footage to share from last night. The patch didn’t really affect this build, but the buff to Bountiful Disillusionment rewards good positioning. My Arcdps was reset so unfortunately I don’t know what the resistance up-time was at the end.
@Fay/GWMO
I hear what you guys are saying. My perspective isn’t very helpful for the new player trying to run this build with the open tag. No matter if it’s NA or EU chances are you’re going to shafted in terms of party composition by virtue of playing this class. It’s unfortunate and it kittenes me off that bad things happen to good people. Part of the reason why I started playing with proper guilds is because I wanted to get away from all that. Until the mindset changes and your average driver appreciates Mesmers, you might indeed be better off playing a different build, perhaps running Temporal Enchanter or mantra healing.
There are more options for shattering when playing a condition build versus power. Because of this, Illusionary Reversion impacts condition builds relatively more. Combined with the changes to core shatter traits, this levels the playing field between the two and more importantly (for Anet) opens up some wiggle room for the new elite specialization to compete.
I’m not sure why you guys keep saying there’s five Mesmers when there’s clearly six. Inspiring Distortion affects five OTHER targets, and that’s the only reason why it can be sustained for this long. Easiest way to bring this in line without kittening off the PvE community is to reduce that target limit down to four.
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Sure thing, can you add me on Discord? Expandas#1097
Giving this a bump. I’m quitting this game in ten days and I’d really like to transfer some of my experience to someone else before that time comes.
Giving this a bump. I’m quitting this game in ten days and I’d really like to transfer some of my experience to someone else before that time comes.
Giving this a bump. I’m quitting this game in ten days and I’d really like to transfer some of my experience to someone else before that time comes.
Was there any stealth?
This is probably the build that killed you: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8flknhy0YnawRNwtGKqGUZHO+2IDQBKOA-TFCEABJq+DT7PK/M4CAslSQCeAAPcQAaT3AAHBACBYeMA-w
The biggest thing that hasn’t been mentioned is that you were hit by every single Mirror Blade bounce (unblockable, dodge it) which gave the Mesmer 6 stacks of might and applied 9 stacks of vulnerability on yourself.
Hi folks. I’ve got some new footage to share. This is all from reset night in Tier 4. Some of the fights were pretty sloppy, but you really see how strong boonshare still is if the enemy group doesn’t have proper strips and corrupts.
I understand what you mean. Most drivers tend to be guardians and the thought that Mesmer can provide the support their party desperately needs escapes them!
The build was designed around zerg fights in WvW. It’s for these situations where you find yourself in a party no stability and being moved back to your original subsquad each time you protest that I recommend running Mantra of Concentration. The crucial thing about those three stacks of stability is that you have a small buffer from the ICD on stability removal to start your rotation. Revenant runes will also come in handy if you find yourself dying to conditions.
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Apologies, I should have specified.
I main Mesmer for Bunch of Random Players [BoRP] on NA. We’re a competitive GvG guild on NA and one of the best at it. However, I am willing to do this for both EU and NA (have accounts on both) but just keep in mind that the eventual server would be Eredon Terrace (NA).
(edited by expandas.7051)
Apologies, I should have specified.
I am willing to do this for both EU and NA (have accounts on both) but the eventual guid and server you would be playing with would be Bunch of Random Players [BoRP] on Eredon Terrace (NA).
Thank you for the kind words.
Hello. If anyone is interested in learning how to play Mesmer in a competitive setting for GvGs and is looking for a new guild, please PM me. I’m willing to devote time for one on one tutoring and footage review to help you improve. Serious inquiries only.
Hello. If anyone is interested in learning how to play Mesmer in a competitive setting for GvGs and is looking for a new guild, please PM me. I’m willing to devote time for one on one tutoring and footage review to help you improve. Serious inquiries only.
(edited by expandas.7051)
Hello. If anyone is interested in learning how to play Mesmer in a competitive setting for GvGs and is looking for a new guild, please PM me. I’m willing to devote time for one on one tutoring and footage review to help you improve. Serious inquiries only.
(edited by expandas.7051)
Hi guys. I’ve got some new footage of me running the build to share with you. Enjoy!
Thanks for trying the build. The trick to playing the healing variant (Mantra of Pain instead of Mantra of Concentration) well is to cover your long mantra cast times with stability; and the trick to doing that is making sure you’re getting sigil procs for the extra boon duration. You’ll really notice the difference in the stability uptime from your shatters, and it’s easy to follow up those shatters with one of your signets for the group.
For small scale roaming you really need to be smart about your defensive cooldowns. Personal alacrity uptime with this build is quite a bit lower than a shatter or pve build so the little things start to matter. Practice kiting with sword 3/staff 2. Don’t animation cancel sword 2 just because you have quickness. If you need to use shield 4, make sure you actually land a block and don’t panic and waste Deja Vu.
If it helps, I look at a support tempest as being more effective at active sustain and reacting to teammates under pressure. Whereas the mesmer role is more about passive sustain and making proactive decisions.
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Using a shatter skill sends your illusions running towards their targets. While they are running they do not count towards the three illusion cap. So if your target is far enough way and you have the proper traits to support it, it’s possible to have a dozen illusions out on the field simultaneously.
Mesmers have been able to reach an effective 100% boon duration for over a year now, even before factoring in traits. These new items will help reduce the barrier of entry for folks that don’t have the gold to splurge on boon duration armor and sigils- and if that encourages one more person to give WvW a shot, perhaps it should be viewed positively. This release should impact the doubloon/pearl economy quite a bit, but I’m more concerned about the next content patch and if the developers are going to use the same approach but with condition duration. Currently, reaching 100% condition duration on Necromancer has a much larger set of trade-offs to consider.
(edited by expandas.7051)
Glad you found it helpful. I wrote out the skill rotation in the second to last paragraph of the OP.
So what’s going on here? I’m pumping out six casts of Signet of Inspiration to buff my team. In order to pull this off, you’ll want to start in sword then swap to staff for sigil proc. Activate continuum split during the after-cast of Warlock to get Illusionary Inspiration and the illusion for CS duration. Time Warp, signet, then Mimic. Your skills will reset after CS ends and you’ll still have Echo on your buff bar. Use your shatter skills during CS for Inspiring Distortion and boon generation. When you revert back, you should be able to finish your rotation without getting interrupted. Weapon swap for another sigil proc before casting the last two signets.
Hmm, I’ve also asked myself that. I think it’s mostly due to barrier of entry. There’s not a lot of literature out there covering Mesmer in WvW group play, and the guilds or servers that do adopt boonshare builds have no incentive to share their knowledge with outsiders. A bit unfortunate, but here’s to bridging some of that gap.
“You don’t necessarily need 66% boon duration in order to make these boonshare builds work. If you’re using Chaos, you will always have Chaotic Persistence. That adds up! If you’re running full Minstrel’s, you’re pretty close to capping out on boon duration (sigil, food/oil, CP) before you even factor the runes.
Regarding runes, there are several options to for various situations. I’ve used Durability, Mercy, Monk, Revenant, and Water runes at one point or another depending on the situation. Revenant runes are probably the most useful for pug zergs if you lack a reliable source of resistance. The 10s ICD lines up well with your mantra heal, and it allows you to share resistance more reliably between CS rotations.
You can also take this build into the healing route by doubling down on Restorative Mantras, the trait that provides AoE healing after you finish casting a Mantra. Mantra of Pain is pretty popular to this end, and some folks end up going all the way using healing nourishment and sigils."
Let me know what you guys think. Feedback appreciated!
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Hey folks! I wrote a guide to frontline boonshare Mesmer a few weeks back for the profession subforum. Feedback was terrific and I figured it’s only logical to share it with you guys as well. Enjoy!
“Hey guys. I’ve spent the last couple of months playing a lot of large-scale WvW and GvG. It’s no secret that a lot of folks are frustrated right now and there’s a sense of pessimism through the community. In light of this, I just wanted to keep things positive and share some awesome things you can do with Mimic. If you’re unfamiliar with Mesmer and the amazing utility it provides, I recommend paying a visit to the wiki and brushing up on skill mechanics and cooldowns.
Recommended Reading on the Wiki
Mimic
Signet of Inspiration
Illusionary Inspiration
Continuum Split
Just as a background for folks that might not be as familiar with the WvW scene, the majority of Mesmer builds you see out there tend to focus either on solo/small-scale roaming or large-scale utility for the zerg, e.g., “veil-bots”. Back when the specialization rework was released the summer before HoT, the introduction of Illusionary Inspiration opened the door for a viable third option, the frontline boonshare Mesmer. With HoT bringing the Chronomancer elite spec and the shield offhand, everything was in place for guilds to begin theorycrafting and implementing boonshare into their team compositions.
So here’s the build that we’ll be working with: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAseWl0nhq0YBawPNQtGLEHV9l+pl6ZFcBfmZAkALEA-T1xHQBwT9HwpPAgK/W3+DPUJY+eCAA4UAIKgMD-w
Chaos/Inspiration/Chrono is a fairly popular and forgiving trait setup. It doesn’t require the timings and group training that Domination/Inspiration/Chrono uses, and has a lower barrier to entry with respect to beginners and gearing.
Now, if you’ve been keeping up the patches, you know that Signet of Inspiration received a major overhaul fall 2016. They essentially changed certain boons from stacking in intensity to stacking in duration, effectively eliminating prebuffing and nerfing might/stability stacking. However, that same change buffed resistance and quickness application by letting the signet use the Mesmer’s boon duration. That’s huge.
The biggest shortcoming for Chaos boonshare has always been not doing enough. Your Signets have 30s cooldowns which means you’re designed to win the endurance race, not the fight that’s over in 20s after the first push. The addition of Mimic takes care of this weakness. It gives you the “burst sustain” your team needs to survive. When you factor in signet changes, one properly trained Mesmer now has the carry potential to win entire fights for his team. Let’s see how it’s done.
Video Tutorials and Gameplay
So what’s going on here? I’m pumping out six casts of Signet of Inspiration to buff my team. In order to pull this off, you’ll want to start in sword then swap to staff for sigil proc. Activate continuum split during the after-cast of Warlock to get Illusionary Inspiration and the illusion for CS duration. Time Warp, signet, then Mimic. Your skills will reset after CS ends and you’ll still have Echo on your buff bar. Use your shatter skills during CS for Inspiring Distortion and boon generation. When you revert back, you should be able to finish your rotation without getting interrupted. Weapon swap for another sigil proc before casting the last two signets.
Illusion generation is paramount to having enough time to get through your rotation. Quickness helps a great deal, so make sure you’re shattering or opening with Tides of Time. In the middle of a zerg fight, it can be too risky to cast everything without getting cut off early. You can mitigate this with Distortion for the rift, leaving either signet or Mimic out of the rotation, using Phase Retreat for an extra illusion, or by simply not having terrible positioning."
(edited by expandas.7051)
I’m not sure a buff that causes you to take extra damage is the right choice but something that deters people from the hive mind at least.
The method could be refined but the idea behind it is solid. There needs to be a negative incentive to escalating combat sizes that is inherently intrinsic, i.e., not an extra reward chest at the end of an entire week.
While YOU prefer a small scale aspect to WvW, that is not what the game mode was designed for.
sPvP is for small scale fights.
WvW is for large scale fights. So if you want WvW to be about fifteen 5v5 encounters instead of one 75v75 megabattle, you should either play on DBL or play sPvP.
I strongly disagree.
It’s evident from the map design and siege mechanics that this game mode wasn’t designed for 1v1. It’s also evident from the server architecture and performance issues that this game mode wasn’t designed for 75v75.
The best gameplay, at least if structures are involved, tends to occur at 5v5 all the way up to two-way 50v50s or three-way 30v30s. 75v75 is simply ludicrous.
“By Ogden’s hammer, what savings driver-sniping!”
Hi Skot.
I’ve used both of the gear combinations you’ve listed and I think for large scale battles you’ll get more mileage out of the Minstrel’s set with Monk runes. The reason is because, as you alluded to with your necro build, conditions are extremely prevalent in the zerg fights you see today. Having a health buffer allows you to use your cooldowns more proactively instead of reactively. Due to Chaotic Persistence, I think you’ll be fine on boon duration as long as you remember to proc your Concentration sigils.
I don’t think this build has enough active sustain to be worth its salt in a PvP setting. There’s little if any offensive pressure in a 1v1 scenario.
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Heres a relatively open fight with no distractions from vT Herald’s perspective. The SBI map Q vs two havoc squads plus some solo roamers. We were around 8, vT 4 and 3 or so solo roamers. So combined we roughly made up 15.
Haha, that’s awesome! Looks like you guys got a really nice epi off the Hate driver sending the rest of the dominoes flying. (b^_^)b
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Echoing what other commenters have said. One thing I’d like to add is there’s a distinction to be had between fights where participants on both sides are simultaneously engaged and those that are not. In the linked video I came up with around 15-18 hostiles in the entire clip. Of those there were only around a dozen present for the lord’s fight, and not even at the same time. Granted, an outnumbered win is a win and I congratulate you and your buddies, but if your group of five was fighting the dozen head on with no distractions I don’t think its a stretch to say the outcome could have been vastly different. Whether some person on a forum validates your montage doesn’t really matter though. The important thing is that you had fun, a culmination of a number of factors-
communication, teamwork, practice, and yes also the builds.
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Thanks, I appreciate it.
One thing I forgot to mention is that you don’t necessarily need 66% boon duration in order to make these boonshare builds work. If you’re using Chaos, you will always have Chaotic Persistence. That can really add up!
So if you’re running full Minstrel’s, you’re pretty close to capping out on boon duration (assuming sigil, nourishment, CP) before you even factor the runes. One really nice option for those of you that don’t have a dedicated guild to run with is to use Revenant runes. The 10s ICD lines up well with your mantra heal, and it allows you to share resistance more reliably between Continuum Split rotations.
You can also take this build into the healing route by doubling down on Restorative Mantras, the trait that provides AoE healing after you finish casting a Mantra. Mantra of Pain is pretty popular. Some folks go all the way and get the healing nourishment and sigils.
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Hypothetically, do you think these groups would run away from fights if there was some way to guarantee that they would always win?
Think about it for a minute. It’s not a difficult question.
I can think of but a few exceptions, e.g., losing a T3 keep, seasonal tournaments, server rivalry, where it might not be the case. Most players will probably agree that rewards in WvW are kitten, so let’s not pretend that PvD is a reason either.
So what’s more likely then? Are these groups avoiding combat because they prefer to reap the nonexistent rewards-
OR…
Perhaps some of these groups are simply afraid of losing. They might not be as experienced, as coordinated, or as familiar with each other. I’m sure you’d be pretty upset if you hopped into WvW one day and the group did nothing but wipe repeatedly.
I’ll end on a couple of thoughts. What sort of realistic changes can the developers OR the community implement so that groups are more willing to take risks and fight each other? How do you balance combat and numbers so that an outnumbered group will still be eager to come out and play, but not driven to outnumber their foes when they have the chance? In my opinion, the latter is a far more difficult problem to solve than the former.
(edited by expandas.7051)
Hey guys. I’ve spent the last couple of months playing a lot of large-scale WvW and GvG. It’s no secret that a lot of folks are frustrated right now and there’s a sense of pessimism through the community. In light of this, I just wanted to keep things positive and share some awesome things you can do with Mimic.
This is a frontline boonshare build, so if that’s not your thing I understand and you can read something else. But if you’re curious and want to dominate your enemies into submission learn more about the build I recommend paying a visit to the wiki and brushing up on skill mechanics and cooldowns.
Recommended Reading on the Wiki
Mimic
Signet of Inspiration
Illusionary Inspiration
Continuum Split
Just as a background for folks that might not be as familiar with the WvW scene, the majority of Mesmer builds you see out there tend to focus either on solo/small-scale roaming or large-scale utility for the zerg, e.g., “veil-bots”. Back when the specialization rework was released the summer before HoT, the introduction of Illusionary Inspiration opened the door for a viable third option, the frontline boonshare Mesmer. With HoT bringing the Chronomancer elite spec and the shield offhand, everything was in place for guilds to begin theorycrafting and implementing boonshare into their team compositions.
So here’s the build that we’ll be working with: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAseWl0nhq0YBawPNQtGLEHV9l+pl6ZFcBfmZAkALEA-T1xHQBwT9HwpPAgK/W3+DPUJY+eCAA4UAIKgMD-w
Chaos/Inspiration/Chrono is a fairly popular and forgiving trait setup. It doesn’t require the timings and group training that Domination/Inspiration/Chrono uses, and has a lower barrier to entry with respect to beginners and gearing.
Now, if you’ve been keeping up the patches, you know that Signet of Inspiration received a major overhaul fall 2016. They essentially changed certain boons from stacking in intensity to stacking in duration, effectively eliminating prebuffing and nerfing might/stability stacking. However, that same change buffed resistance and quickness application by letting the signet use the Mesmer’s boon duration. That’s huge.
The biggest shortcoming for Chaos boonshare has always been not doing enough. Your Signets have 30s cooldowns which means you’re designed to win the endurance race, not the fight that’s over in 20s after the first push. The addition of Mimic takes care of this weakness. It gives you the “burst sustain” your team needs to survive. When you factor in signet changes, one properly trained Mesmer now has the carry potential to win entire fights for his team. Let’s see how it’s done.
Video Tutorials and Gameplay
So what’s going on here? I’m pumping out six casts of Signet of Inspiration to buff my team. In order to pull this off, you’ll want to start in sword then swap to staff for sigil proc. Activate continuum split during the after-cast of Warlock to get Illusionary Inspiration and the illusion for CS duration. Time Warp, signet, then Mimic. Your skills will reset after CS ends and you’ll still have Echo on your buff bar. Use your shatter skills during CS for Inspiring Distortion and boon generation. When you revert back, you should be able to finish your rotation without getting interrupted. Weapon swap for another sigil proc before casting the last two signets.
Illusion generation is paramount to having enough time to get through your rotation. Quickness helps a great deal, so make sure you’re shattering or opening with Tides of Time. In the middle of a zerg fight, it can be too risky to cast everything without getting cut off early. You can mitigate this with Distortion for the rift, leaving either signet or Mimic out of the rotation, using Phase Retreat for an extra illusion, or by simply not having terrible positioning.
Let me know what you guys think. Feedback appreciated!
(edited by expandas.7051)
Sounds like the community needs another evil empire to fight, and the ragtag band of rebels that stand up it.
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I just wanted to clarify one thing about the potential impact on server transfers. I think it would be highly unlikely that a Mega Server Obisidian Sanctum would negatively impact ArenaNet’s bottom line. Everything is of course, theoretically possible, but we’re not currently, at least anecdotally on NA, seeing very many server transfers by guilds for the specific goal of fighting in Obsidian Sanctum. I think there are plenty of other reasons why a guild might decide to move- escaping tier one, glicko manipulation, less “blobby” gameplay, to name a few. However, I think you’d be hard pressed to find a WvW veteran who doesn’t think the potential pros outweigh the cons.
Can you elaborate on why you think the cost to transfer servers is too high? Also, I’m not sure if you’re aware but there is a one week timeout after transferring servers before you can transfer again.
Strictly speaking melee still has its role in the meta, even at the upper limit of zerg vs zerg engagements. But when you consider the time and training it takes to hone someone’s skills so they can survive and complement their team, it’s no surprise that the relatively higher skill floor/lower skill ceiling alternative of playing as a ranged condition build is a more popular option for many.
So why don’t more guilds run melee-oriented compositions? Unfortunately there’s little desire for most guilds to reinvent a working wheel. Most wipes are attributed to a numbers difference (at least by the group that loses!) and finding another group to voltron up with is the opposite of the taboo it once was.
Until the community arrives at a common ground regarding engagement sizes and acts altruistically for the common good, I don’t think you’re going to see a mainstream shift back to power metas for zerg play.
I’m having difficulty taking this thread seriously with terms like Visas and Refugees flying about. Also, why is this in Q&A format?
That said, I think your proposal would have a detrimental effect by validating server stacking instead of taking steps to prevent it in the first place.
You’re not wrong. Changes from HoT to skill balance, game design, and game mode mechanics definitely contributed to the WvW we have today, but this thread is about server links. Telling me that certain roaming specs were overpowered or that guild buying was a thing already misses the point.
Was implementing server links the best option at the time under the circumstances? Possibly, probably not. It’s very easy for me to say that the superior alternative would be to address the community outcry against the Desert Borderlands, game mechanic changes, and skill balancing at the time- in short, to fix their game. They could have increased the rewards for playing the game mode a la PvP season 5. They could have discouraged server stacking and omniblobbing by tweaking map population caps and the outnumbered buff to give substantive advantages. For whatever reason they chose the arguably simpler and faster route of just pairing servers together which introduced its own set of challenges. That said, what I would consider better doesn’t translate to easier for Anet to develop, implement, and contribute to their bottom line.
In order to tackle the subject of server links, I’d like to take a step back and pose a question to help frame the discussion. Why do players play WvW and what keeps them coming back? Once we tackle this big picture “WHY” we can move on and worry about the finer details like game and game mode mechanics, concepts of fairness, etc.
Some people play for the sense of thrill, the excitement of an intimate fight, large or small. Others are playing because of the community, whether that’s coming from the guild that they’re in or the server that they’re on. There are also those that play to win, either through the point totals at the end of the week or the outcomes of each individual organized scrimmage or duel. Lastly, you have people that play WvW because of the rewards, namely the Daily rewards and Gift of Battle.
These groups are: for-the-fights, community-driven, play-to-win, and rewards-driven. They are themselves multifaceted in both polarity and intensity, and most definitely not mutually exclusive. The implementation of linked servers benefited and hindered these groups differently, but how so?
I often hear that the for-the-fights crowd benefited from having more players squeezed into the same matchup. Servers that were formerly described as ghost towns would now get a taste of the action that they had longed for. However, things aren’t so cut and dry. Being for-the-fights isn’t reserved for liking large-scale 30+v30+ engagements. We as a community don’t hear very much about the solo roamer who walked with two heavy loot bags after getting ambushed at a camp. You rarely hear the tales of the organized roaming teams winning five versus seven, eight, ten, and so on. More common are the laments of the self-described “fight” guilds fielding 20-odd players in open field and their frustration of always getting “a—jammed” or “blobbed” down by the map zerg of the hour. I think it is to fair to say that for these players, the influx of players and elimination of many matchup tiers made the possibility of having clean engagements and winning outnumbered fights more difficult- before you factor in arguments about post-HoT skill balance and the like.
Community-driven players are a diverse bunch as well. You’ve probably heard of the term “server loyalty” before—previously as mark of praise and now a self-contained sardonic joke. Whether it was intended or not the implementation of linked servers knocked down the support pillars of each community that was slowly erased. It removed any incentive for the scouts, roamers, and defenders, sometimes playfully referred to as the “homeland moms” to keep participating. Your server now existed in name only, and each cycle of relinks only diluted the familiar names you remember. On the flip side, if your community was the guild that you played with then links probably had little or no effect in this regard. In fact some guilds took advantage of this system to get in favorable matchups and drive their poaching and recruitment of players. To be quite honest I don’t really hear about this disparity in winners and losers talked about very much. I suppose it wouldn’t be as discouraging if the doomed servers weren’t home to predominately smaller and medium sized communities that rely on each other even more.
Partially because of time constraints and because they weren’t significantly impacted by server links; the last two groups, the play-to-win and rewards-driven players can be covered together. When I say play-to-win I’m talking about folks in the upper-end GvG guilds, the server leaders and organizers that take after buying guilds and managing communities, or the aficionados of siege play who use every tool at their disposal to achieve victory. Aside inflated numbers of players and the syncopated nature of relinks, nothing else here is drastically different post-links that hasn’t already been covered. The same applies to folks hopping into WvW for rewards. The zergs that they run with might be larger, but it goes both ways. And once those dailies are out of the way—out they leave, as fast as they came!
Understanding the underlying motivations driving WvW players has helped me defog my picture of the situation. The server links produced distinct winners and losers. These winners tended to be players on more populated servers that weren’t at risk of closure and large guilds that gained from the escalation in combat sizes. Their guild centric mindsets benefited from easier recruiting via links. The losers were the sentenced players on servers about to be erased and those players that enjoyed roaming and medium/small size engagements. The unaffected were the PvXers and the resident “elites” of each mid/upper tier server.
Is there any surprise that the feedback that ArenaNet surely received and factored in to their decisions benefited the aforementioned parties? Is there any surprise the discord between the parties rarely intersect meaningfully on the subject?
(edited by expandas.7051)
It was mostly directed at Rambit’s comment but looking at it now I suppose much of the shared anguish we find ourselves wading through is due in part to a plethora of dependent and interconnected factors. It’s inevitable that the other topics will eventually seep into the discussion at hand.
Not to interrupt the revisionist history nostalgia trip but do you think it would be possible to stay on topic and discuss linkings?
At least in the current meta, the only situation where you’d probably want an Assassin’s set to maximize your critical hit chance is for one of those glassy roaming shatter builds. The reason is if you’re trying to squeeze a large amount of burst damage into a short interval of time the damage you give up by maximizing crit outweighs the devastating damage loss of not landing a crit in that burst.
Thanks for sharing Chaba. I spent some time reading Sabull’s original post and this quote resonated with me:
Then people mention que systems with supported tournaments, I cry out of sadness – the WvW culture could be different and we wouldn’t have to be thinking about these things. I think of practicalities and it is not really possible because takeing away GvG guilds from WvW means death of WvW and the people in these guilds want both spontanious openfield fighting and controlled GvGs, not just latter! Aka not possible or good for the guilds nor WvW.
If people ever pick up on the core issues of " WvW should be different so we wouldn’t need GvG" or how Anet should have and should design new maps (EotM), guild&commander changes and all changes to guide and push the culture to be guild centered not random community blob centered. I jump of joy and I don’t have to do these posts.
source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Food-for-thought-for-ArenaNet/page/2#post5011007
He’s got a point. If smaller engagement sizes were encouraged, or rather if there were diminishing returns on zerging, we might see this apogee of challenging and interesting combat naturally as opposed to trying to artificially create it through proposed queuing systems. In retrospect, I now see these “wvw queue” proposals as no different than server pairings—a short term solution that addresses the symptoms rather than the root cause.
(edited by expandas.7051)
Purchasing superior runes of the water is an easily accessible way to obtain 20% boon duration as well.