Showing Posts For lachste.3091:
If you want a stealth build.. (i.e. Permastealth) I would think dagger/pistol is best way. Thieves are more about the weapons than necessarily the full build. (Although that does matter). Black powder, and heartseeker gives stealth and an attack that doesn’t break stealth, and sets you up for a backstab. You will need a bit of initiative, so at least 15 in trickery. If you want to use stealth for constant regen then at least 10 shadow arts. For condition removal 20.
This can gimp damage though. Which means if you want to keep your initiative up grab at least 20 in crit (signets).
There are a bunch of ways to play this. Either have your gear determine damage, 30 shadow, 20 acro, 20 trickery. Grabbing most of the initiative using skills. (initiative on stealth, for more attack happy beats out regen initiative in stealth) (Build is more tanky, healish)
Or else you can grab more power/damage build with 25 deadly, 30 crit, 15 trickery. This probably takes more skill and dagger dagger is better for this build. This is just an example.
Or anywhere in between.
Cloak and Dagger is good for stealth, the problem is.. it does have a small castbar, which is why it is best when used with steal. It can be dodged, evaded, blind etc. It costs high initiative, not as much as black powder/hs, but blackpowder does a blind on the guy, then you stealth and if close enough hit with a heartseeker. This leaves your steal open, if you want to mug/or stealth on steal.
If you are experienced with a thief hitting cloak and dagger is not super hard. But if you aren’t a guaranteed stealth isn’t bad, aside from your utilities, and heal. If you want to be all stealth you can even use the shadowtrap, which sets you up almost perfect for a backstab. But I would recommend shadowstep as a stunbreak, unless you drain initiative then roll for initiative is ok.. but it lacks the ability to choose where to jump to, and the 3 condition removal.
Pure stealth builds aren’t great for damage.. but survival they are ok. Sword to me seems best, that or dagger/dagger condition with malice signet.
If you want a truly annoying thief build, dagger/dagger (x2) with energy on each set other signet can be what fits you. Runes dwayna. 20 shad arts, 30 acro, 20 trickery. Using the roll back heal, roll for initiative, precision signet, and another utility (the shadowstep signet is ok for extra init, caltrops to do a bit of damage, blinding powder/shadow refuge for quick heal but situational)
Shad: Have the regen on stealthing allies, remove condition in stealth,
Acro:vigor on heal, regain initiative, and initiative used heals
Trick:release blinding powder when 10% of life in 1 hit, stealing removes boons/gives vigor. (or caltrops on dodge instead of those 2)
Dodge around, death blossom spam, use heal every 15 sec, steal with charged cloak and dagger to remove conditions. Switch weapons, or pop signet for more dodge, roll for initiative for death blossom spam. Its easy and you are almost un-hittable, and its not really a big stealth build. When you are hit for large damage you auto stealth, when you get low on health you auto stealth.. so it is super annoying.
Steal to me seems to be awesome, my first build based was around it in fact. I don’t like stealing a daze from un-dazeable boss, but daze isn’t just used to daze.. What I mean is, even if the boss can’t be dazed, it works also as an interrupt. Every build I have made I have found a use for it. I like the simplicity.
If you are ranged, I will admit sometimes I really don’t want to be close to a boss, but. If you are ranged, you are most likely condition based, and will have at least 10 pts in deadly arts, which means, free poison. If you just want a free speed boost, might and fury, (trickery) you can pop it before battle without stealing at all. The initiative recovered from steal is nice too. If you are melee, you can use it to get into battle quick. Gunk was my favorite with dagger dagger for chaos shield, as well as all the conditions. Using ranged it gives confusion. One of the best is the multi buff one, how else can another class get every boon? (aside from runes/utilities/elites).
PvP (maybe PvE) it becomes a damage dealer with no initiative cost. As far as some of the others, the chill one is hard to pull off because it is melee, some ele’s are hard to chase, that works well when it hits. The healing tree is awesome, its free regeneration to you and everyone around you. The tuft of hair is free stealth, and aoe blind. Everyone loves whirling axe.
It’s a random mechanic, just like messmer’s and engineers, the luck factor is big if you think as a thief, so why not get awesome sometimes, and meh other times. You can’t be op all the time.
You have to do almost hit and run. With dagger/pistol (I am assuming you mean dagger mainhand, pistol offhand) Use your black powder then heartstrike through it to stealth. Have a second weapon set that is ranged, either pistol/pistol or shortbow, because unless you have a survival build you will have a tough time meleeing on every mob. Get behind mobs.
High damage builds don’t survive as well in dungeons, unless you can read the monsters, or are ranged, or count on something else to do the equal amount as sustained damage i.e. condition or burst dps and roll away.
If you need to heal often, but want to stealth still, you can always switch your heal out with the one that rolls you back (15s cooldown), and use different utilities to stealth such as the utility blinding powder. The shelter is almost a must in dungeons, if someone else goes down, as well as with any projectile combo shot it gives lifesteal. You can also use shadow step to start the battle, and if you start taking damage shadow step back
It is hard to find a balanced spec that can be used in pvp,wvw, and spvp. Just think of yourself as a ninja. Get in, hit hard, get out, disappear. You aren’t a brawler in people’s faces (for most builds). If you want to be more of a stand in their face, condition dagger is nice for evades with death blossom, sword/pistol has pistol whip which you evade all reg attacks in the animation, and sword/dagger has flanking strike which although tends to miss a lot still gives an evade aside from the roll. Both sword weapons also have infiltrators strike, which is like shadow step, and is useful for starting a battle.
Hope this helped some.
I would almost think you’d want to go in C/D, auto shot, and shoot back. That’s how I would kite stuff. You could also just auto shot till they get close, c/d, autoshot, then shadow shot back. Stacking vulnerability is good though.. it doesn’t do much damage maybe, but it increases the damage done by a %, so if you time it right you can fully unload with 10%+ damage.
(edited by lachste.3091)
You could always do dagger/dagger, in other set pistol/pistol if you are wanting the black powder back, or dagger pistol. If you just love the blind there are other skills, and traits you can use as well.
I know there is complaints about nerfs for many reasons, but has anyone checked out what they did with shadow trap… it is awesome. You can choose when to go back to it, instead of laying it down, forgetting about it and then all of a sudden going back to it. I will be honest I don’t use it much, but I did find a couple times where I would run off of a node, after I left my trap, get at a safe distance wait for the icon to change then hit it, and surprise the heck out of them. I can’t say it will be in a permanent utility slot, but it is really fun to use when you have the right moment.
It’s structured so that you don’t have high levels ganking low levels. At normal games there isn’t much strategy, but people who have tournaments look for specific professions to do certain jobs, and synergize with each other. If you take one professions skill set away, or drastically change it. It would be like taking a rangers pet away (to an extreme), or not letting guardians heal as well.
I think what they mean is that in wvw these nerfs didnt happen (if they say in pvp).
Are you on right now? I could In game message you
Daze got nerfed, dancing dagger got nerfed, c/s got nerfed. S/D uses those all. They use TS, but honestly I am not sure if it is diminishing returns, I have dazed with a pistol, pistol whip, and TS chasing guys. They keep running. The only thing the daze is really good for is interrupts, it is unimaginably good for that, however do you know for sure when someone will heal, or do a long cast, and be right on top of them to do that interrupt? Against a melee fighter who just stands right next to you spinning around, and just spamming buttons, you can mess with them, but only so often ranged will get hit run/wipe conditions. A backstab always does damage. A TS may or may not cause the person to be unable to move, along with the other daze moves. If it got changed and caused imob I am sure people wouldn’t even complain at all.
I use leeching too, in a completely different way, but I did have fun with using a monk rune since the aegis pops directly after the elite is finished, meaning, you put aegis on everyone around you as well as the venom. Your thieves end up making almost the entire fight when they are leeching life, with a guaranteed block. This wouldn’t fit into your build, but it was fun to play with. I’m on anvil rock as well.
Do you need to be the Flavor of the Month (FOTM) build to have fun? If so, you’ll always be scared of the nerf bat.
Honestly, find a class that has a playstyle you like and work your way to perfecting it.
since when S/D is FoTM build? really? please do tell. the FoTM D/D is almost untouched. burst still as high as before.
thieves has very limited viable build, and now we are pretty much pidgeon-holed in 2 viable build. D/D or condition or GTFO.
What are you trying to do? I mean damage. I have seen a pistol whip/haste people to death, very well., and they don’t need condition. I don’t like sword dagger, only because of the #3 skill (forgot name). It often misses, with venom might, and stealth might, they may be able to catch up a little, and still get some tactical strikes in. (yes c/d, dancing, and daze all nerfed, so they got hit the hardest)
You can always go heart strike build with pistol dagger, using black powder for stealth crit. Or you can be completely evasive just with utility and short bow and stealth. Or work together with other people supporting them. Even just being tankish, and using scorpion tail, and cripple’s while other people beat on them is alright too.
This only effects certain builds, which does suck, but they are still usable, it just needs more thought, and perhaps even a little more skill than button spamming.
To be honest I have more fun the longer the fight is, rather than insta kill.
I just wanted to post what I find still works for me (although I have noticed a slight drop in survivability). 10 deadly (2 might/venom), 30 shadow (regen allies when stealth, leeching venom, venomous aura), 30 acro (dodge gives might, pain response, hard to catch). Last one you can probably toss out if you want more self heals you could put into Assassin’s reward. Personally I hate being stunned.
I use sword/pistol, and short bow. Pistol whip Infiltrator/Shadow Return and Black powder I use a lot.
I use signet of malice, people have said I am an idiot for this, however I have tanked a champion effigy by CoF solo until time ran out on contested event. With this, I mean I out healed his dps, and didn’t need to evade much at all. I can pretty much stand toe to toe with most bosses.
I use spider venom (poison 5x 500heal), and skale venom (vuln/weakness 3×500 heal), and shadow refuge on top of boss (regen + short aoe heal + lifesteal/leech combo) or to rez. Basilisk I pop onto as many people as I can, wait for them to hit, once it wears out hit the boss for about 5 second stun. Imobilize for melee to keep him in place, then roll out unless I have conditions I can’t handle. Then I use shad return.
There could be a damage build for use somewhere here using venoms as well. It would almost have to be condition based, and you would need to evade everything. As it stands for me this is the best support build I found using leeching/leaching. I have used stealth healing, and extra poisons/lower poison cd. This works too, but I wanted more mobility, and be melee. For ranged you won’t need acro as much, and could put some into steal buffing.
PvE The only way I see it functioning at all anyways is if you pop points into deadly arts for the might stacks, and use sword/pistol for the evasion on pistol whip. Your damage will suffer compared to DD, but you can pop venoms mid strike for self heal. It works ok with short bow as well for aoe. I am guessing you could use dual pistols/shortbow as well. It does work nice in this way, as your might from venoms goes onto them as well. You can easily maintain 25 stacks if you have another person stacking might. You also need to keep signet of malice, and you will be healing for about (with 1k healing power) 150ish + venom (about 500 for me). I took refuge for regen allies on shadow traits (this also regens you when stealthed), and some acro skills to increase survivability i.e. pop stealth on yourself at low hp times. I do not see support thief, being a huge healer. With this build I can might stack, burst heal melee, stack conditions quick, and easier rez. blind/daze/interrupt and survive. Melee groups love you with this. 2 venoms/shelter elite situational (usually bask, tanking mobs daggerstorm).
WvW this works pretty well at times against groups if you don’t use basilisk and use dagger storm. Most people are squishy, and are glass cannons. I am pretty sure the venoms don’t stack much past 5 people maybe 10. Only works well really in group or 1v1.
sPvP Horrible, as far as I see. To get the about same healing power you lose about 3k life and a bunch of other stats. To get good heals on the venoms basically you have to drop lots of survivability. You can solo Svanir pretty easy, but the time you have in 1v1 is usually not very long. You might survive better, and shadow return is nice for condition removal, daze only interrupts half the time, and with reduced daze time it’s hard to even get more than the first hit of pistol whip without using haste. Using hide in shadows removes your ability to survive the fight, and not much damage compared to DD. I haven’t tried dual pistols, but they might be viable in sPvP.
(edited by lachste.3091)
Ok, so went to sPvP zone, did all power gear, healing was 385 per venom. Did all healing power gear, venoms healed for 608. I am not sure what the difference they added was
I was using healing power gear, with malice. So I have over 1k healing power. It let me sit in a fight a lot longer, seems harder now. Not sure though, because I get about 14 might stacks on avg during the entire battle. I’ll go test this out a bit.