Guild Wars 2

Ladders are based largely on quantity of games. Not to mention that in a team game, ones ladder rank can be much more debated.

Ladders only measure measurables. People who play to that a lot and on good teams make it to the top.

Says nothing about people who get carried up, and great players who don’t play on great teams (or even play teams at all). The only judge of whether a player is a top player or not is by viewing and ranking his play yourself.

Mrbig.8019:

surely not because i consider him a top player, mostly due to the fact that there’s no way to understand if he’s a top player or not without ladders, but indeed he’s very ackowledged about the thief).

Ladders don’t make someone a top player either, it just makes them the top of the ladder.

I enjoyed this greatly.

Towren.1745:

misda.2859:

Shortbow 5

I would like to know how they do it personally. It’s all well and good saying shortbow 5, but I can’t seem to get lightning flash to work in the same way, could just be me though

watch jumper play his thief, he shortbow 5s to lots of places you can’t normally path to

Mrbig.8019:

thieves going from keep floor to keep roof in nifhel.

This is happening pretty often in these days.

A thief can teleport all over the place in nifhel, BUT SURELY CAN’T from floor to roof at keep ( because you need to actually be able to go by feet there, that’s how shadowsteps work).

In free tourneys, it’s becoming standard.

Shortbow 5

XScott.1940:

I would probably play TF2 a lot more, but I don’t like jumping on some random dude’s server with whatever games and mods he decided to implement.

there’s places you can go to play organized TF2. TF2lobby.com (haven’t been there in > a year, so idk if there’s something better), or go to atf2.org and play comp games using IRC. Can check out the comp scene at teamfortress.tv.

Agreed. The pacing of fights doesn’t feel right.

The biggest thing keeping this game from being fun for me is that I don’t feel like there’s enough things to separate good players from the best. In WoW I felt there was plenty. It was very apparent who the top few players were where I played. Here I can watch 3 different ‘good’ players of a class and not really see any difference (other than positioning).

Stats make people play for stats.

People already play for the scoreboard as it is.

DaliIndica.9041:

dodge roll what exactly? dodge the invisible man who I have no way of bring out of stealth? now to mention they can steal and backstab at the same time. And if I am able to dodge it, then dodge it again, I have no more dodge. The thief still has all his moves. So say I use some skill to further my defense, which is no one cooldown, the thieves moves are not on cooldown, he can just spam them all again, and again, and again.

Thieves have initiative. Also if you saw the thief stealth, it should be easy to deal with.
What class do you play?

Marduh.4603:

misda.2859:

Bad players

Bad design
200 ms ping + 200 ms your reaction – 400 ms to use stunbreak/dodge
500 ms – 15k burst

Have yet to have any trouble with a thief after my first two games (in which I did get destroyed by a thief). I simply messaged him asking about the class- he referred me to Jumper. I watched some of jumper’s stream videos to learn how the class worked and have had 0 issues since then.

Glass cannon d/d thieves are ‘glass’ cannons.

+you just throw in a dodge roll or two and a slow, and they’re not a problem.

DaliIndica.9041:

Adaneshade.2409:

DaliIndica.9041:

Yeah we are really bad, which is why I said go into hotjoin (or free tournys if you wish. I would say paids but expect long q times), and look at how many thieves are in the game.

Ignore everything I said, ignore every thief complain thread (even though most threads are about them, so must all be bads), ignore reason and logic. And still, notice how every game has loads of thieves in them. The clue is in how often they are used. At least 4 EVERY SINGLE GAME.

People want to pretend that slamming 10K in an instant is ok, that thats normal.

I am going to roll a thief and I already know I will utterly destroy anyone I go against. I may even make a video. Now if I am a “noob” with no skill, who doesnt play the class, I SHOULD do crap. Yet I have a feeling I will in fact destroy all others who come near me. But thats ok, a class that requires little skill, and has some of the most overpowered attacks and defense is perfectly fine.

Hot join sPvP is full of noobs… The D/D thief build is a noob build… The D/D thief build kills noobs… This is why there are so many of these thieves. Noobs killing noobs with the most noob friendly build they can find.

Riiight, and you dont see an issue with that? Well let me draw you a picture.

Hotjoin is junk, so scrap it. I am sure thats what most of the “pvp proS” would like to say.

Then what? free tournaments? well get guild stamped, and with no way to learn your class you can expect to roll solo, get farmed, and have nothing but stomach ulcers to show for it.

Paids will continue to dwindle as well, as less and less people want to play Thief Wars 2, and opt for wv3 or pve or another game entirely.

Few more months down the road and the pvp aspect is dead, a new mode or two will inject only a little extra life, but the competitive level is well and truly dead.

PVE content will be pushed harder and harder making the problem worse. Then when this place is a ghost town and all thats left is some die hards complaining about the lack of any PVP, I may log in to laugh and ask if they hadnt been so protective of the thief OP state, maybe people would have enjoyed the game and tried to get into the higher level of pvp.

MMO market is a fast moving and ever changing market, this is not World of Warcraft so it will have to work hard in order to stay in the game. Mesmers were op thanks to a bug and thats been addressed (in the most amateur way possible)

And another point that I have made over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. The thief has no cooldowns, it is a different combat system. How can you not see the major flaw in that?

Lets make a new class that has machine guns and plays just like counter strike. Do you think it will be OP? yes because it doesnt fit with the other combat styles. The class is broken, thats why its overpowered. No other class can spam attacks, none.

The thief has cooldowns. They’re just in the form of initiative…

The d/d thief sacrifices some prolonged damage/healing for burst ability. It’s called having variation in your game.

Bad players will always play. See: how many people play 32 man TF2 pubs, QL space CTF, CoD MW2.

Balancing the game for bad players is really stupid.

DaliIndica.9041:

Anyway, if a class is easy it has to have something that means it is easy.

It was an analogy. 19 rogue was the most played twink class, but it wasn’t overpowered (no slows).

Yes, doing the initial thief burst is easy. That doesn’t mean it’s overpowered/broken…

DaliIndica.9041:

Yeah we are really bad, which is why I said go into hotjoin (or free tournys if you wish. I would say paids but expect long q times), and look at how many thieves are in the game.

Ignore everything I said, ignore every thief complain thread (even though most threads are about them, so must all be bads), ignore reason and logic. And still, notice how every game has loads of thieves in them. The clue is in how often they are used. At least 4 EVERY SINGLE GAME.

People want to pretend that slamming 10K in an instant is ok, that thats normal.

I am going to roll a thief and I already know I will utterly destroy anyone I go against. I may even make a video. Now if I am a “noob” with no skill, who doesnt play the class, I SHOULD do crap. Yet I have a feeling I will in fact destroy all others who come near me. But thats ok, a class that requires little skill, and has some of the most overpowered attacks and defense is perfectly fine.

What does a lot of people playing have to do with it? That doesn’t make the class overpowered.

If you pub in TF2, there’s always a ton of pyros and engies.
But they’re awful.

When you play pubs, people play the easy class. That doesn’t mean the easy class is overpowered.

I’ve only had this game for Christmas. I have never once found thieves to be a problem.

Have I just not fought any good thieves, or are the complainers really that bad?

Donedusted.9846:

Do you think that this difficulty has historically come from the healer/tank/dps model that GW2 has moved away from?

I think the removal of tank/healer classes should have made balancing easier but it seems not.

I do not. I think it comes from just making classes different. I didn’t even mean MMORPGs. I mean FPS (TF2) and any type of multiplayer game with different classes.

In order to balance everything evenly, they’re going to have to give every class essentially the exact same tools. And that makes a game not fun.

It’s ridiculously hard to balance everyone without making everyone boringly equal. And if you make classes unique, some are going to counter others.

This is a problem I already have with the game- although I know I’m in the minority. I think the classes are all too similar currently (do some dps while keeping your team/yourself healed, and cc people as necessary). Sure you have a lot of things you can do, but they just don’t feel super unique to me, and I don’t feel like I can really specialize at things because every class has everything.

Highre.5704:

Given a hypothetical perfect 1v1 balance, how could XvX be unbalanced? Please provide some kind of example, because i dont see how.

Anything that can be used 1v1 that then one character can use 1vX while the other character can still only use 1v1 is a good example.

Necromancer condi’s are buffed and/or they get a decent amount of HP leech so that they can more easily kill someone who they are fighting 1v1.

Now they get to use that same increased damage/health leech against multiple characters at once.

It is notoriously difficult to make builds equal in 1v1. Even if that was attained, it means that they would very likely not be balanced in groups.

The game is based around groups (as all games should be).

That’s just the issue you have to deal with playing in pubs (as with all games).

1: Character specific keybinds or the ability to move around slot skills.

2: Target of target UI functionality. It’s wonderful to be able to see who your enemies or allies are targeting.

DaliIndica.9041:

Anet do not know how to balance a game, and thus some classes murder others with little or no chance of avoiding it.

THUS, downed state is a crap fix for a problem that should have been sorted in beta.

well if it’s 1v1 they’ll still get the kill.

If it’s 1vX, they deserved it, and I’m okay with letting the X still hard res after anyway.

If it’s XvX I don’t see what it possibly adds to the game other than making someone stop and blow a cd to stability stomp, or sacrifice 1/2 their HP to stomp while the rest of the team focuses the stomper down.

No down state + hard res means the player would still get credit for the kill they deserved. I would also be fine with keeping signet res.

Keep in mind that if someone bursts a player down 1v3, he should be killed as well = no gain on the scoreboard.

Turin.1024:

Every class has a downed interrupt for a reason

What is the reason?

Esplen.3940:

I’m sorry if this sounds rude, but what I read out of your post was:

“I don’t understand why people have a chance to defend themselves against insta-gib burst. I mean, I understand that noobs people like to suicide for a kill 1v3, but then shouldn’t they get the kill?”

The answer to that question is, yes, they should. That’s why they need to have the skill associated with instagibbing. Say a thief runs into a 1v3, they have plenty of stealth skills to be able to stealth-down someone. You might argue that the downed person has a down-defense skill to interrupt, but the thief also has a lot of stealth skills which negate the target-required ones.

Additionally, having a “finish him” allows players to actually res mid-battle and not just be useless once insta-gibbed. This accommodates more team-oriented play instead of just “oh, I died, okay, I’ll be back in 20 seconds guys!”

I would be fine if you could still hard res after down. That way the other player still gets credit for the kill.

I love downed state in WvW and PvE. It’s only sPvP that I dislike it in.

Abazigal.3679:

Issue with downed states usually is the understandings. Several things making it rather hard to understand :
- skills to ’ revive ’ target from down state
- target dead = you get up : sometimes it’s obvious, but some other times you get up because someone 30 meters away died
- some abuses/bugs , especially with the 3rd skill from warriors when on down states. I know there’s a trait but i had several times that skill disappear when i killed a target, although i didn’t have the associated trait. On the other hand, sometimes you’re 1v2, you down the warrior , he goes invincible hits you once and goes away. If the 2nd player kills me, he will lose the invincible, which isn’t really fair…

I understand these things. But I don’t see what they add to the game.

Also the ‘target dead = you get up’ seems to reward the person who died first (since they get 1/2 health at res).

I would love if someone would explain to me why downed state is good for the game.

It makes it (nigh) impossible to 1vX anyone because while you’re dicking around trying to down someone, the other player(s) can just wail on you. I’ve seen players 1vX and get more than 1 person’s HP to 0, but get 0 kills because they can’t down anyone.

I myself have won a fight because I died first in a very close fight- then got an easy down state kill for a res and stomped the other player. I felt dirty. Taking a win which clearly shouldn’t have been mine.

It just seems like a delaying tactic to draw out fights in a game which already suffers from drawn out fights.

The only argument I’ve read for it is that it helps defend against burst. I don’t understand this. If a player bursts someone down, why does he not deserve the kill? If a thief bursts in a group of 3 players, he sacrificed himself for that kill. Why can’t he just have it?

Someone with more insight than me please tell me why this isn’t a dumb mechanic. I haven’t had the opportunity yet to play tournies, is this mechanic important somehow in comp play?