Guild Wars 2

Thanks for the info, I’m sure I’ll be back up to speed soon.

Well that’s…. probably a step backwards. Without getting too detailed I’m wondering a bit about the current meta. Is it still a boring bunker meta? Burst? Condition? And finally, before the game finishes updating and I can see for myself, where do guardians currently fit in?

Solstice.1097:

balance changes, meta is different, some more balance changes coming this month, totally different rewards in pvp now, matchmaking is different, no more solo vs team queue

hmm idk what else.

No more solo vs team q, as in back when it was just one combined q and everyone hated it?

I’ve been away for about a year now, and have found myself missing the combat of GW2 pvp. A quick look at the forums does little to fill me in on what’s happened in the past year; I see complaints about the leaderboards and matchmaking, discussions of why we aren’t esports, and all the same stuff I saw last year. So what have I missed? What’s better now, what’s the same, what’s worse?

First off, I have been inactive in this game for a while so take everything I have to say with a grain of salt. That being said I’m pretty familiar with various dps guardian builds and how they perform.

The dps guardian excels as a team fighter, but loses some of its luster and is easily edged out by other classes if there is already a guardian in the team fight. And that’s the problem, the bunker guardian provides more than enough support, and as a result a different dps is usually a better choice.

This is part of what led Olrun and I to try out the bunker warrior (we really weren’t trying to kitten people off that time), we wanted to see if by separating a large part of the support from the bunker a team fight focused dps guardian could be effective. And it was against most teams. But you really have to build your team around it, and good teams will be able to counter it.

If you like dps guardian, play it. It’s a lot of fun, and (last time I played) reasonably powerful. But if you want to beat experienced teams, you will have an easier time with other comps.

As someone who is not planning to participate, I fully support the reserved spots. I don’t want to watch games where teams ignore Keep to kill Svanir, cap points with 3 people, or any other hotjoin shenanigans we will see if random teams make it to the streamed matches. A good spectator experience comes from skilled play. I remember getting excited throughout the games when then Team Sleepy fought MiM. Those moments won’t happen if the people playing don’t know what they’re doing, and those are the moments that inspire people to compete.

hehk.8705:

NO NO NO NO NO NO.

DPS guardian is currently in a good place. The problems is we are playing in a meta where most builds are so broken they do not need to worry about the same problems. Buffing another class is not the fix to the issue, nerfing others is.

Once Anet learns that making classes have weak points like guardian soft CC is GOOD. It incentives team-play rather than the 1 man army kind of game-play this meta has breed. No build should be able to do everything, guardian gives up soft CC for its really good AOE cleave.

If you want soft CC do not push a point alone…

Hehk is absolutely right, dps guardian builds are not too weak, power creep has been too prevalent. I would much rather see the so-called “apex-predators” toned down in a way that all builds have a weakness similar to ours with soft CC. Sure it’d be fun for a while if we were super OP, but I’d rather have a healthy meta where every viable build has a weakness.

Unfortunately I no longer have the time I used to to play this game and we have now dissolved Two Metas Ahead. That being said, this is still a fun game, and I want to have fun in it. So I come here today to invite all interested to Itty’s Troll Squad. This is not so much a team, as a group of players who are looking to run weird comps, mess around, and just have fun. So if you think it’s more fun to come up with names like Two “Fetas” Ahead than play a spirit ranger or hambow warrior hit me up in game!

Dahkeus.8243:

FausT.5482:

Just curious if anyone has tested the +10% dmg from fiery wrath vs traiting inner fire for more fury up time? Reason being I could redistribute those 10 points from zeal to get bubble on rez and fury on burning?

I’m not sure how you could test that since in Inner Fire is so conditional, but I can’t honestly see how it would be worthwhile to get 3 seconds of fury that only occurs when one specific condition is applied to you. =P

Besides, Fiery Wrath is something that helps you against every class. Inner Fire only helps you when you’re fighting someone that inflicts burning regularly.

Basically this, it’s not really something you can test effectively, but Fiery Wrath is a consistent increase in damage, and not a trivial amount. Inner Fire is inconsistent, and more than likely a smaller damage increase than 10%.

I think a lot of this debate comes down to playstyle. While the build I use can be effective in a number of 1v1’s, as Silven notes it won’t win them all. Thankfully this is a team game. This is first and foremost a teamfight build, meant to get efficiently from fight to fight, relieve the bunker a little, and put out pressure. When I started playing dps guard I actually played with Silven’s meditation builds and really enjoyed them. The choices I made in what I run now are a result of my team’s playstyle and my own.

Try out all the different builds, guardians have a lot of flexibility in their builds, allowing you to choose one that fits your playstyle and is effective.

Unsplitting Selfless Daring is absolutely necessary to keep guardians alive. For quite a while guardians have seen no defense buffs because we have been in a good place, while power creep has occurred in the rest of the game. Guardians don’t survive nearly as long as we used to, and if the synergy between Vigorous Precision and Selfless daring is destroyed we will have even fewer ways to outlast the increased damage. That being said dodge spam is out of control so the nerf to Vigorous Precision is warranted. This leaves the only option to be to undo the split to Selfless Daring to balance it out, unless ANet decides to start reversing some power creep.

This could be a good way to handle this, while hopefully helping some other issues.

One way to do this I’ve been thinking could work would be a little more work intensive on ANet’s side. If proper tutorials were implemented to teach the basics of sPvP and conquest mode in general, these unlocks could be rewards for completing them. Ideally, a short video, and a simulation with npcs similar to those in the HotM, would cover each topic. For each tutorial a player completes they will unlock a new item. To make this less of a hassle for experienced players, you should be able to skip the videos, and the simulations should be relatively quick and easy if you understand the topic of the tutorial well (but hopefully a challenge if you don’t).

However they end up doing it, the biggest thing now is for us to throw out ideas that we wouldn’t hate to see implemented. Hopefully the devs will like one and we won’t end up with huge gold or time investments needed.

First let me say that my opinion of downstate is based entirely around team q. That being said, I think the downstate is an incredibly key part of what makes this game play as well as it does. I love how team oriented tPvP is and downstate adds a lot of team play and depth. Whether or not you can revive your allies and finish your enemies often decides a match. This isn’t a bad thing however, it merely requires players to know how to work with downstate to play at a high level. This is a team game, so know your strengths and those of your teammates. If you are bursty, down an enemy and cleave the body while a tankier teammate stomps. If it’s a thief, mesmer, or ele just cleave. If you are getting low, get near a bunker or someone else able to rez you. Stomping and rezzing are part of the game, and should stay. They add team play, depth, and excitement.

Sticking to your target is definitely one of the toughest things to overcome as a dps guardian. Personally, I find hydromancy sigils and speed runes indispensable in this. While I would love for Anet to give use some soft cc, these are the best tools we currently have. When working on sticking to a target with my build I tried a number of things but none were as effective.
Here is the build I run, with a little explanation on each part: http://intothemists.com/guides/2294-ittys_meditation_dps
Good luck, and message me in game if you have any other questions about dps guardian!

I am playing only team arena, and while not the highest rated, am usually above 150 and often face the highest rated teams. I am letting you know what I see, and I assure you, it is not from hotjoins.

You do no dps if you aren’t on the target or are dead. This isn’t pve, players kite and attack back. More balanced builds are indeed highly effective right now, as you can see from builds like HamBow warriors, spirit rangers, minion master necros, and even dps guards. The days of everyone being full glass or full bunker are gone, and the higher up you go in team arena, the more tanky dps builds you see. As for healing power, I’m just going to agree to disagree while cautioning any new guardians reading this thread to take a look at the builds of successful bunkers and note which amulet they use.

The tooltip was incorrect when it read 3 seconds. This got fixed, but the functionality remained the same.

Ken’s build that you linked is highly effective as a support bunker. Maiden England, your bunker build is close to a standard full bunker (not as much support as Ken’s build) build but is going to be nowhere near effective. The Soldier’s amulet provides you a lot of health and armor but the Cleric’s amulet brings the healing power a bunker needs to support and sustain. While hammer is a good cc weapon the battle sigil will do nothing for you as a bunker, another energy sigil would be far superior. Finally, Purity is way better than Strength in Numbers, and there are better options for Retributive Armor as well.

Your meditation build is also going to make life as a guardian a lot tougher than it needs to be. Sword, mace, and focus are all effective weapons, but torch is near useless. It can provide large burst but is unreliable and brings nothing else to the table. Your traits lack a few key things to help you survive, specifically Vigorous Precision and to a lesser extent Absolute Resolution. Right Hand Strength is definitely not worth the investment, and most of the Radiance tree is optional. The Barbarian’s amulet helps get some of the survivability you’re missing from traits, but a better balance could be achieved with defensive traits and a Beserker’s amulet. Your sigils on the mace and focus set will interfere, as all sigils with cooldowns share those cooldowns. Finally, with this build you will fully experience the downfall of a dps guardian, which is not being able to stick to your target. Flashing Blade and Judge’s Intervention are too little mobility and will allow near anyone able to kite you.

Qaelyn, if you are interested in meditation play you can check out my build here:
http://intothemists.com/guides/2294-ittys_meditation_dps
If bunker is what you are looking for, hit me up in game and I can help you out with either a selfish bunker or a support bunker.

Harbinger.8637:

It works well in solo que. I did change it a little though. Dropped 5 out of Radiance and put into virtues to get another damage multiplier. Then also using Unscathed Contender. Yeah I know that’s gimmicky, but it’s a huge help with your initial burst.

I’ll have to take Harbinger’s word on it in solo q, as I can’t stand Skyhammer or playing what feels like a team game with little to no coordination. Grabbing Power of the Virtuous is something I’ve thought about, but against a coordinated team, Justice is Blind is too key a tool for stomping and blinding big attacks. Unscathed Contender is a fun option, although personally I don’t find it reliable enough. I do think Power of the Virtuous would synergize better with the high retaliation uptime from Vengeful. That’s not to say it’s ineffective how you have it, you just become more burst-oriented at the expense of some of your other strengths.

Phoenixfudge.5290:

Team of default female asuran mesmers named “IIIIIIII” and “IIIIIIIII” anyone?

My team and i got bored one night and ran 5 giant pink norn mesmers all named things like “IOIOIIIIO”. It confused us at least as much as our opponents.

If you’re looking to play guardian there a few good ones to check out, depending on the role you want to fill.
If you would like to bunker I’d check out Kensuda’s guide, you can find it here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/sPvP-Kensuda-s-Bunker-Support-Guardian/first#post3388922

If you want to play dps as a guardian (be aware it can be a bit of an uphill battle) I recently put together a guide on it that can be found here:
http://intothemists.com/guides/2294-ittys_meditation_dps

Hope these help, if you have any guardian questions feel free to contact me in game!

Thedenofsin.7340:

the warrior has pushed even the guardian out from the role of mid-point bunker, as highlighted by your build.

Just wanted to stop in and say how happy I am to have been pushed out of that role. This build largely came into our team so I wouldn’t have to stand in that circle anymore.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Who do I send them to?

Just send them to all of ArenaNet, I’m sure that will get you your legendary.

I have relatively little glory compared to a lot of players I know as I rarely do anything but team arena. The armor skins I propose changing to glory are relatively easy to gain in PvE. There is no simple solution that will avoid glory farmers getting rewards while still rewarding actual players. The problem here lies in the ability to farm glory, and it is inexcusable to use that problem to deny legitimate players rewards.

Unsatisfactory rewards have been a major complaint from dedicated sPvPers for a long time. The glory vendor previewed on stream yesterday appears to be ArenaNet’s attempt to reward players for the time they have already invested in the game while they work on more rewards for the future. It looks like a step in the right direction and I am actually looking forward to getting some of these rewards. However, many players only play sPvP, so at the moment they have little to no gold. With the addition of a gold reward for playing matches this will soon change, but it means that these players are not being rewarded for the time they have already invested. Rather, they are being asked to start fresh with this currency that is new to sPvP. For this reason, I propose a change to the glory vendor as it was shown in the preview: make the dungeon armor sets purchasable with only glory, but leave the gold cost on the cultural armor sets. This will allow the players who only play sPvP to be legitimately rewarded for their past play, while still having a sense of progression and goals in the cultural armor sets for future play.

-Itty Bitty Bunker & Olrun the Blade

tldr; Make dungeon sets cost only glory, keep gold cost on cultural sets

The team arena does allow the three of you to q as a group, but may take a little while to find 2 more members (they have to be in q alone or as a duo). Your best option is to find 2 more people on your own and field a full group.

I just tried with a stopwatch and it seemed to be the correct duration. How did you test this?

Renewed Focus is only lasting 2 seconds (it used to be 3) since this patch. The change is reflected in the tooltip but not any patch notes. I hope this is a bug that will be fixed shortly, but if it is intended it would be nice to know.

We are still looking for a ranger who meets the above criteria, let us know if you are interested!

I won’t comment whether or not I think warriors should be nerfed, but I do want to point out that there was not only one build used in MLG. Despite my issues on home point, our warrior, Olrun the Blade (Sense of Tumor), did an excellent job as a mid bunker. Warrior has a lot more build options than Hammer/Longbow, and a few of them are seeing use by good teams.

I just wanted to say how excited we are to be in this tournament, and wish all the other teams the best of luck!

Lux.7169:

Higher ranked on both team and solo than over half their team.

Three of them are not even top 1k on team Q, 3 aren’t even on Solo Q ladder either.

Now please point out where I said I should be on it? I think there are plenty of other amazing NA teams well above their skill level that weren’t even asked.

You should be offended they’re even in the same tournament as you.

I wasn’t sure whether or not I wanted to respond to this, but I think I will. In a last minute change we were invited to this tourney, and are thrilled for the opportunity. I understand how frustrating it is to not have the teams you hoped to see in the tournament but I want to clear up some things. First, you are blatantly wrong on our rosters placement on the leaderboards. We are all top 1000 on the team arena leaderboards. In addition to this inaccuracy, your comment about solo q is largely irrelevant (if not wholly) as this does not reflect the abilities of the team. Furthermore, while the leaderboards may be the best tool we have for judging a team they do not tell the whole story. Often times players will group up with less experienced friends. Other times we will run a fun team composition to blow off some steam. Both of these activities, and many others, cause a drop in MMR. This nature of the leaderboards leads to experimenting resulting in a low rating, and will continue to until an unranked team q exists for this purpose. As to why we were invited I can only speculate, as I was the one invited, not the one inviting teams.

To reiterate the cheerful reasons I actually made this post, thank you for the opportunity to compete in such a great event, and good luck to everyone involved!

Edit: Fixed a typo

Thanks for your suggestion, that looks a lot like something i tried, but may need to try again, I think you’re points on it are spot on. The meditation build you linked I’ve tried as well. My only problem was mobility to and from the team fight seemed to suffer without the greatsword. I may have not been using my teleports as efficiently as possible and will continue trying it.

Chemically Imbalanced [CI] has changed names to Two Metas Ahead [PRO] in case you would like to update that on the list.

Silven,
For reasons of an odd team comp my team has been going back to the idea of a guardian homepoint defender. I have been experimenting with symbol and meditation builds, with more success coming from your GS/S+F meditation build. It is strong in most 1v1s and mobile enough to help mid or put pressure on far. However with the overwhelming amount of H/LB warriors I was having some trouble. I have made some adjustments and think I have something closer to the old meditation homepoint defender that works quite well right now. However I am not just asking for feedback on these changes, but also for any ideas you may have for homepoint guardian or suggestions for fighting these warriors.

Here is the build based on your current meditation builds and my memory of your old homepoint one that is adapted to deal with these warriors:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAR7dlYgSDXFSOEfIFRuArHB0g+DXw1DIGxGC-TsAA1CnIKSVkrITRyisFNsYZxGCA

fugazi.5139:

Well, there’s two teams still playing.

Really fugazi? Right after I add the third? :p

-It has only happened on Foefire for me (lag spikes and a dc)
-It was in team arena, not solo
-NA region

Chemically Imbalanced [CI]

This is actually very similar to the build I have been running lately, with great success. I think in a bunker role a few changes make this an even more powerful build.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-73xBd;0NFk40J3kF-90;9;6JTJ;446-14A58-UJk67;1ZF18ZF183Rw

I’ll go through each difference and why I made the choices I did when I put this together:

Shelter over Signet of Resolve: This comes down largely to preference, personally I really like the block that comes with shelter, as it can help you avoid way more damage than SoR can heal for.

Purity over Defender’s Flame: While I’m guessing you took out purity because of SoR it is important to remember that when you use SoR to heal you lose that condition removal. Purity is a very strong trait, and that constant condition removal is much more helpful to a bunker than a burn. Bunker dps comes from supporting your allies with snares and boons, not from burning.

Master of Consecrations over Vengeful: Vengeful is a great choice in this trait slot, however with Sanctuary on your bar, the duration increase and cooldown reduction are almost a must. Consecrated Ground is a nice choice as well, but it is not as strong as it used to be.

Cleric’s ammy over Soldiers: While toughness and vitality are helpful, healing power is what gives a guardian their sustain. With the trait Mace of Justice your healing power with your mace out gives you incredibly strong sustain and support. Healing power is also important in that it helps your entire team, rather than just adding personal survivability. The knights jewel lets you reach the health you need to survive a burst.

Sigil of Superior Accuracy over Sigil of Leeching: While Leeching is a nice idea it is not affected by healing power, and can be a bit underwhelming compared to your other sources of healing. One of your best heals as a bunker guardian are your dodge rolls. Sigil of Superior Accuracy combines nicely with Smite on the scepter to provide Vigorous Precision procs, thereby allowing you to dodge more.

Overall your build looks strong. I just wanted to provide some options and the reasoning behind them.

Chemically Imbalanced is a new team aiming for the top of the NA ladder. The current core of 3 players is very strong and we are looking for two more to fill out the team. While we are looking primarily at thieves and rangers we will try out anyone who can fill a roamer or home bunker role.

Region: NA
Practice times: Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday, 5-9 Pacific

Please be well versed in your class and role, as well as the game in general. If you are interested contact me in game!

The ability to troll your team on Skyhammer is a bit concerning in a rated setting. When Skyhammer was the tPvP map when it was released I saw a mesmer kill a teammate with a portal placed on the glass. Skyhammer seems to need some work before it is a rated map.

In tPvP a dps guardian is a bit of an uphill battle. The 0/30/30/5/5 trait set up you mentioned with meditations will be your most offensive option, but as you noted lacks chase and escape options. A symbol dps build can have a bit more survivability and group support but will not have burst like the meditation build, as it is more sustained aoe damage/support. A bunker role is by far the most effective as guardian but it doesn’t sound like you are interested in playing a bunker. If you want to play a dps guardian in tPvP I would suggest a symbol build but, as Christos mentioned, it will take practice.

A lot of people seem to assume the only reason anyone plays bunker is to win. While this is certainly the draw for many players, there are definitely those who gravitate towards this sort of role. Those of us crazy enough to enjoy supporting our allies will stick with this playstyle whenever we can, whether it be as a traditional healer in another MMO or a support bunker in Guild Wars 2. I am not trying to say anything about the pros or cons of a bunker in solo q, but simply trying to correct the misconception that no one enjoys this role!

As rsq mentioned, in addition to the mid bunker role (usually a guardian) home bunker is quite important as well (more often than not a ranger). Beyond that it comes down to defining what each roamer’s job is on each map. This can differ from team to team, but usually includes which points they are supposed to help first, who responds to different secondary objectives, and who peels for who. At a base level a standard team comp is a mid bunker, home bunker and 3 roamers. (This is not to say this is the only way to do it, but rather a starting place) How exactly you use those roamers is up to you.

- Necro’s are indeed quite powerful right now, but seem on their way to a good spot
- A guardian mid bunker has been considered a “must have” for as long as I can remember, other classes have come and gone from the required comps. Overall it is more about the role than the class, and different comps can work fine as long as the necessary roles are filled. If you are asking about as of right now, guardian, necromancer, and ranger are in the majority of team comps.
-Class balance occurs about once a month, patches are twice a month with the second one usually being the balance patch.
- The forums are what they are. Some threads will be constructive discussions while others are mere qq’ing. Despite the qq threads the community is generally welcoming and helpful to new players!

If you need anything else check out the list of players helping new players or whisper me in game!

Silven, I have been messing around with Merciful Intervention as well, in an attempt to make a bunker with a different playstyle. While it is definitely map specific (I was teleported all the way out of the clocktower) it has always been an interesting skill and with the improvements I find myself hoping it may be useful now. I began testing this build last night with mixed results:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAW5elUgSDXHyNEf4ESmiVCBxUwRf01DIKiaIA-TsAgzCoIKSVkrITRyisFN+Y9xuBA
It seems strong to condi burst, and sustained direct dps. It’s also a lot of fun to play. On the flip side, it feels weaker to sustained condi dps, and lacks boons (especially stability). Right now I feel it is weaker than a 0/0/10/30/30 but I hold out hope we may soon have a new way to play a bunker!

This is frustrating for Team Pure Pleasure as we would have to sub not one but two team members, one for age and one for region. While this means we will probably be sitting out this first tourney, I hope the region issue is indeed looked at for future tournaments and we look forward to cheering on those able to compete!

Stand Your Ground.

This isn’t the most effective build in the world but should do fine in open world pve and fits the themes you want. The ring of warding on you hammer is a fun ward, purging flames, torch, and judge’s intervention help out your burning, and the sword applies it nicely with the passive f1. Monk’s focus and vigorous precision give you some survivability, but you will still have to pay attention.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAS8flYgSDXGSOEfIFSuArHBEC5P4CueARYYDB-ToAg0CnI4RxjjHDPSes8MsYDB
Good luck!

Definitely check out Silven’s guide emapudapus linked, and give those a try! This is what I have been running as a mid bunker post patch, you are welcome to give it a try:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAW5elUgqC3GSPEf4ESmCRCBxUwRf01DI6hYIA-TsAgzCoIMSZkzIjRSjsGN+Y9xOCA

Edit: I had not seen the builds Silven had changed, some have been updated for the patch. Give them a try!