Guild Wars 2

Face it, no matter how much ANet “fixes” mesmer it’ll never be enough for kids who can’t learn basics of PvP. They will always cry for more nerfs.

Jungle.7913:

If french servers will fight together one day, you’ll know it, because you will return in T2 directly.

If AS and VS will end up in different tiers they will go down all the way to ELO hell where they belong.

Wow, a 25 page thread about a “problem” that is in fact nothing more than an unbelievably lame excuse for losing. I can understand how orbs were an actual issue – the total bonus from having 3 orbs was just too strong. But blaming your incompetence on the fact that some people are in a different timezone. Seriously, just wow.

JustFake.7250:

You are really fun on Deso., having a server that has the prime time US schedule nightcapping

You’re really fun on AS/VS, having 2 servers allied against 1. Each time your double server zerg dies down to match the size of our “nightcapping” team we push you to your spawns because on equal terms you just can’t compete.

Troma.3250:

1) Vizunah made a LOT of sacrifices the last week, to wake up at 4 or 5am, to be at primetime too, our commanders played sometimes 15h/day. 80% of us are like zombies

Yeah you sacrificed the the well-being of AS. Your guilds cannibalized their WvW spots (I mean player spots) to ensure VS victory which costed AS potential points in the match and world-wide bonuses that would come with them.

Erasculio.2914:

A thief hits me from stealth with some kind of control move, following by burst damage.

Thief doesn’t need any control moves for 1v1. BS+HS or CnD+Steal will eat 90% HP of any glasscannon DPS built character. This is pretty much instant and will be followed by HS spam. Since HS is ranged, it doesn’t matter how you respond. You’re already dead.

I can’t wait for paid transfers. At least then AS/VS top guilds will have to buy a lot of gems every week.

Mesmers have no other ranged AoE option to speak of. Rangers, ele, necro – they all can cast heavy AoE on the walls. And they don’t even need to target anyone for that. iZerker is actually much more useful when you ON the wall because you can easily followup with other attacks.

And the most annoying thing is name tags that linger on players who are defeated. Sometimes it’s really hard to tell who is dead and who is only downed.

Liriel.1473:

@ nightshade
Arborstone will go to T2 next week as i can’t see how we can win with all the people who leave our server this week.

AS certainly won’t go to T2 next week. You’re still double teaming with VS against Deso so they will let you win at our expense.

For Balthazar’s sake at least quit denying you’re double teaming.

I don’t believe thief can be balanced with nerfs. The class needs a complete revamp, even more than mesmer. A resource (init in this cases) based class has no place in GW2 where everything else is c/d based. And the current set of abilities is broken beyond repair.

Winds.3087:

And chaos storm was never offensive.
People who say otherwise are in denial no doubt!

CS was never offensive but it was (and, sadly, still is) mesmer’s best defensive ability. On a 35 sec c/d. To put this in perspective, guardian has 10% flat dmg reduction, heavy armor, passive health regen and chain blind. Granted, guardians are usually melee as their ranged weapons aren’t that good. But they can survive nearly anything in melee and they still can opt for ranged if they want.

Carighan.6758:

prodigy.1023:

a) Handicaps you at short range. You have to kite and when you can’t kite (risen thralls, etc.) you need to perma-cripple your target.
b) Punishes you for having Sword MH in your second weapon set. Of course you can use Blink to get range fast but Blink is on a long c/d. With a Staff you can switch to melee and back whenever you prefer. With GS it’s not so simple.

See, smarter people would say that your weaponsets actually perfectly complement each other.
One works from range, the other from melee. You can switch to Sword+Focus/+Sword when in melee, and use Greatsword when you’re at range.

Attempts at ad hominem never add credibility. Now back to topic: GS doesn’t compliment MH sword because you can’t get enough range fast enough at will. Once you’re in melee, you’ll need to use c/ds to get range and switch back to GS. Also in a GS/Sword setup you’re missing all the defensive abilities from Staff. And in GS/Staff setup you won’t survive in melee (and kiting isn’t always an option).

No matter how you put it, GS is just meh. I admit I exaggerated a bit when I called it useless earlier, scepter is certainly much worse.

Carighan.6758:

(edit)
Phase Retreat is completely predictable.

Except you end up in a random place facing random direction.

Somna.5168:

That should have been obvious from his signature.

And that’s all you can say?

Listen, I’m not trolling. Pray tell me what I can do to prove this. I provided some analysis in this tread and earlier in the 10/7 patch thread. I’d add math if there were a DPS meter but even without math things I say should be well-known to anyone who at least touched the class. As for me, I played mesmer to 80, thief and guardian to 70+. So I’m not an expert in all classes (yet) but I’ve seen enough to be able to compare.

And my signature is true as well. I still have the toon but I no longer actively play this class. Because it’s quite depressing to look how the devs take away everything good your class used to have without giving even a true bugfix in return. (Yes, Phase Retreat is even more broken now as it’s almost completely unpredictable.)

GS is good enough for PvP but I wasn’t discussing PvP. And if you use GS for PvE you’re stuck with a weapon that:
a) Handicaps you at short range. You have to kite and when you can’t kite (risen thralls, etc.) you need to perma-cripple your target.
b) Punishes you for having Sword MH in your second weapon set. Of course you can use Blink to get range fast but Blink is on a long c/d. With a Staff you can switch to melee and back whenever you prefer. With GS it’s not so simple.

Too much effort for mediocre results at best. I don’t want to kite trash mobs. I don’t want to knockback them. I don’t want to tell them “hey guys, could you please wait while I’m preparing my extremely complicated rotation?” Sustained PvE is about having a simple and convenient way to deal with trash non-stop. And with every passing week mesmer lacks more and more in this department not getting anything in return.

zexion.5842:

The activation time isn’t faster the projectile just goes faster. It is still trash weapon.

QFT

EasymodeX.4062:

The man is very serious.

/sigh Such a pity ignore feature doesn’t really work on these forums.

Kanto.1659:

You’re serious?

I’m always serious. I believe I have deep enough knowledge of the class. I certainly know what it’s not capable of. So it doesn’t surprise me at all that everything I see in this thread is random bragging without a single proof video.

Even you yourself admit that mesmer has to upgrade to exotics to become somewhat effective in PvE. That’s laughable. Exotics are the end of the road, my friend, not the start.

So to summarize: I see full denial mode here. How about a little truth? How about finally admitting that GS was, is and will always be inferior to Staff. Not because Staff is so great now when it’s nerfed to the ground but because GS is completely useless. How about realizing that with phantasms ruined shatter builds are the only remaining option? And shatters have very little synergy with most of mesmer utilities and traits.

Ross Biddle.2367:

PvE mobs die quickly and can’t kill me.

PvP enemies die quickly and can’t kill me.

How about a video, oh the almighty? Because, sorry, I don’t believe you. Well, actually the PvP part could sound plausible, say, 3 weeks ago. But as for PvE you’re just flat out lying here, m8.

There’s nothing to discuss anymore. Like I said before the class was outright killed by the 10/7 patch. And now they’re just kicking this already cold, rotting corpse.

PvE-wise mesmer was a joke even before 10/7. Now it’s not even funny. I still see mesmers trying to PvE sometimes and it’s just sad. They spend like 30 sec on every mob. Even on my thief I kill stuff faster.

I have a better solution: let’s just /delete mesmer and pretend it never were. It’s quite clear at this point the devs don’t have a clue about what to do with the class anyway. So why don’t just go back to the drawing board?

alanis.6094:

5 seconds of an enemy deciding not to attack you

I wouldn’t count on that happening too often. Point is, CA is situational at best. In most cases it’s only slightly more powerful than retaliation and definitely less powerful than fury. In the meanwhile both ret and fury are more subtle and almost any class can get those on a short c/d.

On a 20 sec c/d it would be a viable skill. On a 35 sec c/d it’s waste of an ability slot.

So where’s ANet in this “dialogue”? Feel more like a monologue to me since the devs obviously don’t care.

Carighan.6758:

And Staff is now useless! Because it got kitten CD improvement on Chaos Armour, ofc!

Really? Wow, all our troubles are gone, it’s time to rejoice! /sarcasm off

Dude, CA is 5 sec duration on a 35 sec c/d (down from 40). It only works when you get struck – something you rather want to avoid. Furthermore, in PvP it’s a huge sparkling pink bubble that screams “don’t touch that guy right now!”

So the “buff” to CA isn’t even the proverbial bone. It’s plain insult to injury.

alanis.6094:

Now others will think we were nerfed pretty bad

Unfortunately they have no idea how bad we are actually nerfed. Maybe then we’d get a /hug at least.

Don’t get it wrong I’m not new to rerolling. But I really, really liked mes gameplay. And now it’s all taken from me and I’m sad.

alanis.6094:

@prodigy

He’s not the only one here that thinks all the kids here are overreacting.

Leave those kids alone and let’s go back to the topic. Do you deny that in one patch we got pretty much all of our weapon setups nerfed? Do you deny that c/ds of phantasms are for all practical purposes doubled? Do you deny that staff is ruined to the point where it’s just a waste of a gear slot?

Come on. I’ve played several MMOs and I’ve seen my share of nerfs. Serious, painful nerfs. But this… this isn’t even funny. Why don’t they just /delete the class then?

Oh, I see EasymodeX is just trolling here. Most probably he’s never even played mes. No way someone can be that blatantly ignorant about the class he’s playing.

P.S. Too bad ignore feature doesn’t actually work on these forums.

SausageStorm.4293:

If you can’t handle a few nerfs/buffs you haven’t played many MMOs I assume.

More like I played too many. That’s why I know where it’s going and that’s why I’ve already rerolled.

And don’t try to sell me some “adapt” blah-blah-blah. I can see when a class gets nerfed to the ground. And then there’s nothing to stay for, nothing to adapt to. This patch killed my mes and my guard. Well, it’s time to play engi and war.

EasymodeX.4062:

Are you joking?

Mesmers barely got scratched in power, with only a moderate dent to bunker army builds.

Are YOU joking? Phantsms got their c/ds doubled. On paper it looks less harsh but for all practical purposes the c/ds are DOUBLED. And CS c/d is now 35 sec.

Like others have said, the last nail in the coffin.

Lumines.3916:

It’s a shame you can’t see the Guardian past greatsword.

There’s no guardian past greatsword, m8. You can’t even call it a nerf. It’s instant class destruction.

R.I.P. dear guardian. Was fun while it lasted.

Levetty.1279:

Engineer or Warrior for easy PvE/farming and great dungeon and WvWvW too.

Gonna try war then. Thanks for the tip!

mdong.9056:

I do not think Anet make changes base on what we say here.

You’ve just nailed it. ANet makes changes based on what people who play other classes say. And that’s the root of the problem.

P.S. I really, really wanted to be constructive but then I read the patch notes…

Yeah, mesmer used to be fun an viable. Until today…

Okay, it’s pretty obvious mesmer is completely obliterated (major nerfs to all weapons). GS guardian got nerfed as well. Thief was never good (PvE-wise).

So what should I reroll now? For PvE, I mean. Ranger? Warrior?

Agemnon.4608:

Some dungeons should be so difficult that only 2% of players can complete them (not all dungeons should obviously but at least one per expansion and armor and weapon drops to go with it).

How about no? Why should 98% pay for content that only 2% will ever experience? This makes zero sense.

Tusuri.3178:

The progression is based on prestige, not stats neither gear.

I’ll wholeheartedly agree with you as soon as ANet will remove exotics, legendaries and the grind associated with getting those. Until then it’s wishful thinking, sorry.

Gauradan.8361:

Xericor.9103:

I’m getting real tired of seeing this forum descend into another ‘I hate the game so I will post in the forum that I hate the game’

So, for every negative thread I see, I will put the universe back in balance and say
I am loving the game
edited by moderator : caps

That’s the problem, genius. The people who are complaining love the game or at least what the game was promising to be up until a couple of months ago. That’s why we’re complaining, because we’re hoping that if we speak loud enough, someone will hear us.

Your hope is misplaced then. Mods just deleted one of my posts where I responded to a fanboy’s suggestion to “cleanup” these forums (delete all the threads with criticism towards ANet that is). I didn’t use any offensive language (it wouldn’t pass the word filter anyway) and they still deleted my post. Basically this means they support the idea.

So you can cry all day long. Nobody’s listening. ANet is too busy counting our money.

LooLoo.1437:

10 dollars for 2 gold. So to make 120 gold I need to spend 600 dollars?

This simply means they have no clue about competitive prices on the in-game currency market. The intention is still the same even if tools are broken.

Gauradan.8361:

That, unfortunately, is the future of gaming.

And that’s why GW2 is probably the last video game I’ll ever buy. After all my recent disappointments I had extremely low expectations but ANet couldn’t meet even those. The game is a buggy mess where diminishing returns are blocking every possible way to make gold and gold sellers are running rampant.

All in all it just screams “Cash shop or ….” (please insert a kitten of your preferable color here).

ANet wants you to spend RM in cash shop to buy gems you can then exchange for gold. Game development used to be about making good games now it’s solely about profit. Case closed.

Your post isn’t going to make ANY difference at all. Just saying.

Korochun.5862:

Here’s how you do S/P in PVE:

1. Gather up 5+ mobs
2. Rally to a waypoint

Fix’d.

Amigo.5023:

Thieves are doing good in pve at all levels. If you are getting hit too much try using some defensive traits and/or slot skills. And be mobile.

/sigh “Be mobile” is just a different wording for “endless kitefest where you’re always one step away from downed”. Thieves aren’t doing good in PvE except maybe those who already have exceptionally good gear. Ironically they don’t need to do much PvE anymore.

I rerolled guardian. Now I can laugh at thief nerfs and I feel ZERO incentive to log on my thief. Guardian is that much better.

Don’t even bother with rolling thief for PvE. It’s easy to make a great PvP build and kill people almost instantly. But in PvE thief is unbelievably weak at higher levels.

You start out rather strong and around L30-L40 it really seems you’re going to be alright but after L60 you start to encounter hard hitting mobs that are very hard to kite and after L70 you have to fight those all the time.

Oh, and aquatic weapon skills are just a bad joke. Just compare to what other classes get.

I use staff and dual swords with crit/vit build. Generally I start with my S/S summons (5, 3) while running in. Then I jump to mobs with 3. Then 2 for some quick damage and 4 for block and more damage. Then I switch to staff. 2 to get range (or 5,2 if I’m not targeted) and then it’s situational but usually it’s shatter and resummon time.

At level 20 I was able to solo 2x L26 mobs consistently. At L30+ with elite summon I can pull 3-4 at a time without much trouble.

Vit is not required but it makes your life easier. If you have good gear you can pump points into power instead.

Why would I “learn to play” a weak and counter-intuitive class when other classes I tried are stronger and more well-rounded? Sense, this idea makes none.

And I don’t find Guardian (or Mesmer for that matter) boring. On the contrary, I find Thief tiresome and tedious beyond all reasonable limits.

DrakeWurrum.6049:

Yeah, no, you’re blatantly wrong.

You’re a mobile leather-wearing Thief. You’re meant to be tricksy, evasive. Play to your strengths.

/sigh

Just try to level some other class someday. And you’ll see for yourself how weak Thief is. All your “tricky, evasive” is just another wording for “lacking the ability to stomp trash mobs like every other class does”. For the most impressive display of power you can try Guardian. But don’t complain that after playing Guardian it’s hard to convince yourself to log on your Thief again.

DrakeWurrum.6049:

With a few exceptions, your greatest DPS comes from the #1 skill working unimpeded.

This isn’t true for many reasons but even if it were… you see, dead people do no DPS. With a few exceptions you can’t just spam your #1 in GW2. Especially while soloing, so in your rotation you need offensive and defensive moves. Thief has more than enough of the former but seriously lacks the latter.

Uruz Six.6594:

Let’s see, my D/D is not even level 30 yet

Come back when you hit at least 70. Pre-70 zones are walk in the park.

The root of the problem with Thief class as I see it is the lack of viable PvE rotation.

In PvP no matter what class you play you’re going to use your abilities situationally as survival and teamplay are high priorities. For PvE, however, you want a rotation. Something that allows you to burst at least 2 mobs at a time without much trouble. (High level zones seem to be tightly packed with mobs so 2 mobs at a time is a minimum. You often just can’t pull one by one.)

As a thief you will generally spam 4/2 (bow), 3 (dual pistol or sword/pistol) or 3/4 (dual daggers). Switching weapon sets is usually a waste of time except for finishing the last remaining mob. Since you’re squishy and you only have soft CC (snares) you have to kite and dodge a lot and well-timed Blind or Daze is your best bet against ranged mobs. Best PvE utilities seem to be passives (signets) and while Thieves Guild is a great elite, it’s on a long c/d.

Ultimately this translates into tedious and unforgiving PvE gameplay. Kiting fast moving mobs? Welcome to bow GTAoE spam where TTK is eternity. A split second late with dodge? That’ll cost you 80% of your HP, sorry. Wanna play melee? Oops, you have no defensive moves. And so further, and so on. It feels like the class is missing something. Guardian and Warrior are tougher and have better CC. Mesmer has virtually unlimited disposable meatshields and various other defenses. Ranger has pets.

Somna.5168:

Combo attacks

I still don’t quite understand how combos work. Is there any easy way to tell what will count as a combo and what won’t?

piitb.7635:

staff for pve is godly once you realize you can have nearly 20 seconds straight of chaos armor.

And how can I get that? Skill description says 5s.