Showing Posts For rager.4963:
Anet would have to refund over 16,000 gems to my accounts if this ever happens. so yeah.
No they would not. You got to enjoy that extra space for that price. Things change, and you would just accept it with a smile.
Do you really think that ANet would want to go through another round of hostile feedback? They might not be required to refund the gems; they would be under pressure to do something for folks that had bought more than a few extra slots.
Accordingly, it’s not as simple as the OP suggests.
Why should they? The people got to enjoy the extra bag space during that time, They got the gems worth of value. It is quality of life change that helps new players come in, and willing to spend money on the extra space because of the global on all chars.
So that pressure they can just ignore. Things change and quality of life improvement for players>That negative feedback.
After reading from both sides. I am going to just say that both sides have a point. It also boils down to trust.
With how this expansion with, and with how many people are unhappy. It is easy to jump on the “Cutting cost” Wagon. The only thing I can say is that you have to answer that question yourself.
Does the content, the game balance, and overall fun of the game improved? Or did the game feel half done, balance feels out of place, and content feels boring?
Both sides will not change each other mind. The state of game right now for some feels like they already trying to use “cost efficiency” game.
We have seen that line before in other mmos. We have seen decent MMOS turn into a puddle of life support because money not funded into them. Changes they want to do can’t do because of time, and needing to make a profit.
So if you are unhappy with the game, and see something like cost efficiency getting tossed around. You have every right to be worried, and every right to question. History has showed us many times that you should always be worried.
Cost efficiency != lower budget
So you say, but the history of mmos and what happens to them after awhile should make players worried when that term gets tossed around and cutting corners is already showing up in the game with HOT. You can think what you want, and people will how they want. Cost efficiency has a history of biting consumers in the butt.
:)
After reading from both sides. I am going to just say that both sides have a point. It also boils down to trust.
With how this expansion with, and with how many people are unhappy. It is easy to jump on the “Cutting cost” Wagon. The only thing I can say is that you have to answer that question yourself.
Does the content, the game balance, and overall fun of the game improved? Or did the game feel half done, balance feels out of place, and content feels boring?
Both sides will not change each other mind. The state of game right now for some feels like they already trying to use “cost efficiency” game.
We have seen that line before in other mmos. We have seen decent MMOS turn into a puddle of life support because money not funded into them. Changes they want to do can’t do because of time, and needing to make a profit.
So if you are unhappy with the game, and see something like cost efficiency getting tossed around. You have every right to be worried, and every right to question. History has showed us many times that you should always be worried.
Anet would have to refund over 16,000 gems to my accounts if this ever happens. so yeah.
No they would not. You got to enjoy that extra space for that price. Things change, and you would just accept it with a smile.
Or they could just make a game that people enjoy, Work with the community. and balance the game in a sense that gives players choices?
It is not our Job to make them money. It is on them to do it. If they fail, that is on them.
The FREE feedback gaming companies get from players is amazing. When you have other companies having to pay people to give feedback. If they can’t make choices on that feedback. If they can’t design a game that is fun for all types of players. That is on them.
If what they want to do takes too long, and they don’t have the “time” to make the changes, That is also a problem with them. We are fans, We are not here to “support” them if we are unhappy. That is for THEM to make us want to support.
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I can’t support balance like that.
What do you mean? You are already supporting it.
Do you play sPvP? Well elites are meta (the only meta) so the community has spoken – get HoT, we all love it.
Do you play PvE? Elites are pretty much superior in every single way and everyone play them, so get HoT, we all love it.
Do you play WvW? Well you’re actually really into PvE, see point above.
I am not funding them more? I can play without paying them a single cent. As a consumer, They are offering nothing for me to want to get the expansion, and the fact they limited players choices on play style when they clearly said they did not want to do that. Is enough of a reason for me to take a wait and see stance on what is going on.
The fact Elites are superior is enough for me to not want give them money. I don’t mind others who enjoy it and happy for them. It does not make me upset.. I just can’t lower my standards expectations to support the game at the moment. When I feel the company could do much better.
But you dont matter to Anet. If you have 2 players next to each other and ask them, do you like HoT?
One says “Oh its ok I guess. I like the new PvE maps and stuffs.”
The other says “Oh hell no, classes are imbalanced, WvW is broken, sPvP is a travesty, everything is kitten!”Then Anet will look at both, consider their respective sides and say “HoT has been overwhelmingly well recieved by our players! Look at these quotes: ‘I like the new PvE maps’. HoT is clearly the best version of GW2 ever!”.
Many developers live in his or her own world when it comes to the project they make a spend time on. Myself I like to paint, and think I am decent on it. When i hear negative feedback it hurts pride a little. That is on a project that takes me months. Gaming takes years and lots of hard work. Like someone else said. Even they are starting to see things they did poorly. The fact we are having major changes coming in the future is a good sign.
I don’t mind a company taking risks, and try new things. I just don’t like when a company says one thing and does another. When a company closes their eyes and looks at all the praise and not the negatives.
Also, My feelings on the game matter just as much as yours do. Lets not place feedback from one group better than feedback of another. All feedback matters, and at one point in time a company paid people for feedback. Shocking right?
This is a MMO and things will always change. How they change is in Anet court. It could be great, or it could be the steady decline of the game. We are all fans, and don’t want to see that correct?
I can’t support balance like that.
What do you mean? You are already supporting it.
Do you play sPvP? Well elites are meta (the only meta) so the community has spoken – get HoT, we all love it.
Do you play PvE? Elites are pretty much superior in every single way and everyone play them, so get HoT, we all love it.
Do you play WvW? Well you’re actually really into PvE, see point above.
I am not funding them more? I can play without paying them a single cent. As a consumer, They are offering nothing for me to want to get the expansion, and the fact they limited players choices on play style when they clearly said they did not want to do that. Is enough of a reason for me to take a wait and see stance on what is going on.
The fact Elites are superior is enough for me to not want give them money. I don’t mind others who enjoy it and happy for them. It does not make me upset.. I just can’t lower my standards and expectations to support the game at the moment. If I was to lower them, that would mean that I support the work they are doing, and I can’t do that right now. When I feel the company could do much better.
(edited by rager.4963)
Since I don’t know much about things. What does core necro offer over reaper? I will get HOT one day, and don’t pvp much. It is just a matter of style. I always enjoyed the caster type of game play. I always enjoyed necromancer. (I use a staff/DS build) and just enjoy the play style. So that is why when I see reaper I just..not feeling it?
Just wondering has anyone stayed Necromancer because they like Death Shroud?
cricket noises….tumbleweed rolls past….crows cawing
Haha. I am sure some people play like Necromancer over Reaper. I ^^ I don’t know. I just feel like having options of play style>having option of weaker or not.
I want to get it, but I don’t like what HOT did with some of the classes.
For example. Necromancer.
I love Death Shroud and the playstyle it is. However, it seems Reaper Shroud offers more of everything, and I would be a fool to not use it. (words of wisdom from some guild mates.)
Problem is, that is not what Developers said they wanted. It was suppose to be a play style choice. So that choice is to be weak or not?
I can’t support balance like that. It is the reason I am holding off. I am not sure about other classes that have the same issues.
And forgo mobility, extra pulsing stab, stun, aoe fear, and hard melee cleaves? I mean I liked Death Shroud, but Reaper Shroud made DS obsolete.
I can forgo all that for fun for myself. Hmmm
If that is the case of what you said being true. It seems like some balance needs to be in order.
Just wondering has anyone stayed Necromancer because they like Death Shroud?
Here is a question. You guys are saying that toughness makes pets get aggro correct? So does pets scale off your stats? if i get toughness on my armor. Do I risk stealing aggro?
Reason I quit necromancer.
I have always played them. This game has THE WORSE version of necro I have ever played, and the buggiest one as well.
If I can share a slight critique of our community, it’s that this is almost business as usual.
Changes happened or were previewed, and they were sub-par for the Necromancer. Next, a lot of people started acting like martyrs to some glorious cause.
People like to throw themselves on their swords here, and try to look heroic doing it.I don’t mind all the counter-suggestions and changed ideas that people have been sharing. I actually enjoy it! It’s interesting to see what a wide group of people can come up with. But the amount of “Everything is ruined FOREVER” posts just reminds me of the last time everything was ruined forever, and the time before that.
This is true, The only real problem I have with the class is design that goes vs deathshroud, and minions not working.
Two things that is basic common sense before we can even talk about balance. Balance can and always change, but buggy pet ai, and class skills that don’t mesh well with DS? Seem to not want to change and that should be on top of list.
It is hard to feel excited about the future when common sense seems to be gone with the dev team.
All this talk of give it “time” and stuff, sure did pay off for the new time skills meser get with wells and stuff.
I can’t wait to see the new necromancer skill, we are going to get a whole new vampire type skills that make us sparkle. Can’t wait to glitter it up on the field.
The OP name says it all. I see no value in this post. Power builds are in a good spot and it seems like they are trying to make terror and condi two different builds. Since numbers are still being played around with all we can go by is what the trait does on its own. We don’t even know how condi stacking will work so how can we say condi builds are going to be broken? I do see some potential power builds which I’m excited about but plan on writing about them in the theory crafting post by Drarnor. Having said all that I do have my concerns with the trait system.
I am glad you see no value in this post, because I really see none in yours at all. See you talk about con builds and power builds. You do know blood and minion builds are also apart of the game right? Blood having huge flaws, and minions work half the time.
So if you want to keep adding your pointless two cents by all means go ahead. People have a right to be irked with how much info we got on the changes, and tweaking the numbers on blood is only half the problem.
Yup. Necromancer is the only class I can play with any success in arena. On the upside, minions are really great when they do decide to move ^^
That is why it bothers me so much. A class that I enjoy and love. A play style that I like, and I have to put up with it not working. Why is that?
I understand, but no point in looking at the past it will just make us feel sad.
All I am asking is that my pets work as they should. That is not asking for much.
I am not asking for buffs.
I am not asking for nerfs.I am asking for my minions to attack my target, instead of acting like they are on strike.
Asking for a core element of the game to work should be TOP thing that gets worked on before even thinking about balance.
I can understand your frustration on that and perhaps they are going to work on improvements to those utility skills, but looking at the general state of the profession that is label/balanced around being the ‘pet class’ I would not set my expectation too high. Even though there are two modes outside of spvp the developers/designer are completely focus on that mode and generally speaking summons/pets are very unpopular with enough of that community that they might be the perfect PR sacrifice to be used to go ‘see we’re listening to you’
As stated about I can empathize with your point of view and really hope that the behavior/pathing/general functionality of pets and utility summons get the attention they need, but I am not expecting anything beyond slow to be rolled out band aid fixes that stop working every other minor update.
Thanks, and ya I don’t know it is a strange feeling.
Here is a company that made this amazing game, and it is very enjoyable. They gave us this tool and spec to have fun with, but when it does not work for so long. I feel like this sort of quality reflects poorly on the company. That is the biggest kicker for me. I respect them for this amazing game, but this is really uncalled for that a play style they support, and is a class design only works 50-70 percent of the time for me.
Minion Master Necro in GW1 was much better and more fun to play. You had mana as resource though and no real cooldown. You summoned minions from corpses and as long as you or your group keep killing monsters you can keep them up all the time.
In GW2 minions are weak and die too easily and you can’t spam them like in GW1.
I understand, but no point in looking at the past it will just make us feel sad.
All I am asking is that my pets work as they should. That is not asking for much.
I am not asking for buffs.
I am not asking for nerfs.
I am asking for my minions to attack my target, instead of acting like they are on strike.
Asking for a core element of the game to work should be TOP thing that gets worked on before even thinking about balance.
Why complain? Did you even watch the Necro part of the video?
Did they even mention about pet ai being fixed?
Did they even talk about DS and how it kinda breaks the builds of blood?
Did they talk about how “weak” the second life bar really is, and what the class loses for it?What would a pet ai fix have to do with traits though?
What?
How hard would it have been to say. “Here is some new death talents we wanted to make pets more useful, and yes we tweaked ai after years.”
They talked about stuff like meser clones and how people used them, and gave more feedback on traits but necromancer they was all like ho hum get this over with so we can get to next class.
Also, pet AI has everything to do with traits. If the AI is bugged people don’t want to spec for it.
Why complain? Did you even watch the Necro part of the video?
Did they even mention about pet ai being fixed?
Did they even talk about DS and how it kinda breaks the builds of blood?
Did they talk about how “weak” the second life bar really is, and what the class loses for it?
If a core problem with Minions is still around for how long, how can I have faith in this new content coming out, when this pet problem has been around for how long now?
snip
Man I don’t know. Someone said that got a strong Siphoning build. I am still waiting to see what it is, and why it is strong. I mean if someone is going to say something is strong, Why is it so hard to tell me why? what we are doing wrong.
People say a lot of things, doesn’t change the facts. You don’t have to believe me, go try it for your self. Go to pvp with your necro, equip siphoning traits and play a few games. Then go to pvp with a warrior, guardian, engi, ele, or ranger while speccing into their sustain traits. You’ll realize really quickly how weak siphons are.
To give you an idea, engineers backpack regenerator heals for about 125 per second, and works all the time because the check to see if they are in a kit is every 10 seconds. In order to match that with vampiric you have to be hitting the other person every second 2.5 times a second. That isn’t possible against anyone half decent because of damage mitigation. You might match it for 1-2 seconds, but never over a whole fight. Vampiric precision similarly would require about 2 critical hits per second which is impossible in pvp over the course of a fight. Purely in numbers these traits are behind other classes, what makes it even worse is that necros can’t get healing in DS, so these traits do no healing for ~30% of the fight.
I trust your word, as I don’t play any class but necromancer. That is why I am asking their feedback to back up the words. I was not trying to say you are wrong, or they are wrong. I just want more info from the people saying that leeching builds are strong.
Something to note, until we see exactly what the condition changes look like, it’s going to be hard to really figure out where Necro is going to end up; stacking damage on poison and burning, the removal or increase of the cap on bleeds and the ability to consistently apply burning from Dhuumfire are going to change the dps calculations a lot for condition builds.
Ya, but i really never consider necromancer problems to be really on damage you know?
For me the two main problems are.
Pet AI
DS is not good enough for some specs, to make up for the lack of defense/ult in others.
What would have been so hard for them to say.
Ok we know some of the feedback Necromancers have been having, and know the problems with Blood, or pet ai. So we made some changes and gave good reason on why they did it.
I love Necromancer spells, I love the weapon skills, I love the pets. I hate with a passion death shroud. It is not fun, I can’t heal while in it if I went a vampire spec. The skills DS has are not that much fun for me. Yet, it is forced on me and I have to live with it. If I want the other great stuff from the class.
Just to clear up a lot of misconceptions in this thread.
Necros do decent dps in PVE, not great, but not terrible and in general close to warrior dps(thief and ele do way way more than warriors). The problem is that necros provide no reflects, no aoe might, no aoe fury, no unique group buffs, and aren’t that good at aoe blind or aoe condition removal. This is why mesmers, that don’t deal that good of dps, are way more popular, they provide time warp, invis for skipping, portal for skipping, and a ton of reflects. Similarly, rangers provide spotter, frost spirit, and some aoe might.
Terromancer is not that strong in pvp, if you think so you have some very weird qualifications for what is strong because the build is easily countered, and is only run by a few competitive teams (strong builds are run by at least 50% of teams). Just because you do ok with it against pugs does not mean the build is strong.
Siphoning builds are bad, it isn’t about your feelings about the build, or how you feel it performs. It’s about the fact that it doesn’t provide even remotely close to the amount of sustain other classes have and the damage is similarly negligible. Again, you can run it if you want, but you will never get anywhere close to the sustain of guards, warriors, eles, engis, or rangers. This is a fact based on simple mathematics, not opinions.
Man I don’t know. Someone said that got a strong Siphoning build. I am still waiting to see what it is, and why it is strong. I mean if someone is going to say something is strong, Why is it so hard to tell me why? what we are doing wrong.
What other option are you looking for? Necromancers, just like Elementalists and Mesmers are just another caster class. Their limitations are based on their profession, and there is only so much any caster can do… any class period, can do.
Noe having thought about it. I didn’t know there was a Terrormancer. Okay, that’s cool. But what is it? I would assume it is a necromancer that runs a specific kind of build, like the Berserker.
Well for one I would like specs mean something. Blood for example is a classic case of a class design gone wrong with the class skill.
My wife wanted to play a vampire type build but when she saw how poorly it heals/works around DS. She question what is the point, and for good reason.
My necro is built like that, works fine now and having looked at the new traits it will probably work better after.
Cool, she uses a dagger and she feels like the self heals from blood is not even close to the regen from the staff. So do you use +healing gear and power? Because she feels squishy as blood.
Terrormancers are necros only real “burst” outside of lich. You load up on conditions and then chain 3 fears together to burst down an enemy. It is certainly no mesmer or thief burst, but it is all we are given. But the build was made completely unviable by the changes so it no longer matters. As was pretty much every necro build except minion master.
Ya, like i said i thought that was just the normal condition build for necromancer. So it being called terror threw me off.
For those asking, “Terrormancer” is a name currently given to a particular type of necromancer PvP build that makes use of the trait terror. The playstyle is based around chaining fears together to lock down and finish off injured opponents.
Thank you, last I heard that was just a normal con build.
What other option are you looking for? Necromancers, just like Elementalists and Mesmers are just another caster class. Their limitations are based on their profession, and there is only so much any caster can do… any class period, can do.
Noe having thought about it. I didn’t know there was a Terrormancer. Okay, that’s cool. But what is it? I would assume it is a necromancer that runs a specific kind of build, like the Berserker.
Well for one I would like specs mean something. Blood for example is a classic case of a class design gone wrong with the class skill.
My wife wanted to play a vampire type build but when she saw how poorly it heals/works around DS. She question what is the point, and for good reason.
I would assume it means it is a Necromancer that causes all kinds of terror through combat?
So a condition necromancer? Because that is what the skill was mainly used by and no matter how great the other two skills are. There is really no option?
Sounds like good balance to me.
Because the ho hum attitude watching the skills, talking about terrormancer (wtf is that?) and the whole part seem to be rushed by, and not really answer questions that necromancers have.
Blood Magic: It just does not work well with DS and does not heal you while ds.
A lot better feedback would have been. Ok, we saw the problem with Blood Magic on live. (it does not give enough heals/problems with ds and we know regen heals more than it) so we wanted blood magic to mean something blah blah. Got nothing in that sense.
Minion problems. My minions STILL some times stand around and do nothing, it was asked if the ai was going to get looked over..nothing.
Terrormancer…I don’t even know what to say. What is that?
It felt like they wanted to rush through it hurry up and get to through to the other two class for more fist pumping action. I know I wanted to punch my friend in the mouth being overly happy about warrior changes while I am sitting here like..wtf just happen?
This is the bare minimal of the spec line needs to be useful to the necromancer.
I want to play a vampire spec. I always enjoyed life leeching type skills, and would love this spec to death, but no matter how well you tweak the numbers, Blood is going to be limited in use unless you do something for it with DS.
pve and wvw. I’m learning it also because wife wants to start playing and she wants to play necro. Thanks for the help
Some of them are out dated, and my guild is telling me that it can work well. So Im going to try it out. What would be a good build for it? also item type.
Thanks in advance.
@Requiem: You do hotjoin, i guess? I’m not doing PvP myself but i watched a LOT of videos of Teldo, Symbolic, Helseth, Defective and Co so, at least in theory, i know something about the meta “up there” in high level PvP and that’s the only thing that counts when ArenaNet tries to make this game an E-Sport.
@rager: We were used to flexible, yes. But after ArenaNet killed multiple of our builds and we are now forced to use certain runes, utilities and traits due to meta, that’s not the case anymore. Oh, and you know that MM necro is one of the strongest builds to play currently? ^^
Huh? People in necromancer forums act like it sucks. Not only that, but Necromancers have one good build for pvp and non for pve. Good to know.
I don’t know much about meser problems. The class seems fun, but fun is over shadow by the king classes.
Bursts are very predictable? That happens to most classes who know what they are doing. You can understand and see things coming.
Ok and you have other strenghts besides condi damage. Some classes only have that and nothing else. Mesers are the most flexable.
You can’t compare your class to the chosen classes. If you have fun with the class stick with it. If you want a easier class that takes zero skill. Go play thief or warrior.
Hell, I just want to play a minion necromancer but even if it is weak, it is so buggy that it is not worth doing. THAT is true problems.
rager , minion master was one of the core builds ppl LOVED in GW1 , thats what some of us want to see again , but right now thats clearly never going to be the case as all we see is conditions being the only remotely useful (and relatively subpar vs raw dmg) build we have , weve been pidgeon holed into specific builds because of this , which was against the initial beliefs were being said for the game…..how any build could be just as good as another……lol at that XD and yea things need to get fixed or this is done , where the only ppl left is that tPvP that keeps “balancing” the rest of the game / players out. there are other good mmos around the corner , its best to prioritize which group is more favorable to appeal Anet , the minority tPvP or the majority PvE / WvWvW group , make your choice and sleep with it , cause the games future will rely on it……and the tPvP group isnt exactly expanding in size
I played a little bit of guild wars 1. My friend was a healer and I would summon a bunch of minions yelling at him to keep them up..He said it was the worse time he ever had trying to keep them alive the longest he could lmao. I enjoyed watching him do it.
You guys should be ashamed to let classes go for so long without good balance.
I’m not talking about just pvp balance. Minions blow, life steal blows..So many great builds could be had if you balance it better.
This does not look bad on the players, but looks bad on you. At the rate you are going, do you think people are going to trust a company that pulls stuff like this?
It should go
FUN after that BALANCE.
Minion builds would be fun if they are not buggy. Well fix them. Why have you not done it yet? To much work? If that is the case remove them and revamp them. Leaving half broken and useless skills in a game makes you look bad.
Life steal sucks? Balance it out. Some people life the thought of being weaker but have amazing life steal.
My friends have left, and I’m coming back after a long break to see if you got your act in check, yet you guys have not fixed necros. You have lied about thief class saying that perma stealth was imbalance that is the reason you have the stealth system you do now. Yet, guess what is going on now?
Unless you do a 180, and start focus on class skills and balance a lot better. Unless you guys start talking, and taking feedback better. Do you think you are going to make a new game and have us follow as sheep?
This is your company future we are talking about here. Shape up or ship out.
The selling point to this game for many players was the PVE not using the same ol tank and healer system, and WVW for DAOC and Warhammer players who love that stuff or newcomers who as well.
Yet, you balance around a small group of players. Lmao
(edited by rager.4963)
For me it says a lot about a company that leaves classes with skills that don’t work or just plain not fun.
Pets, and life steal reworked looks like it is needed.
Don’t get me wrong I don’t mind esports, but if esports ruins the fun of the game. That is when I do mind.
WVW is kinda what my friends and I played GW2 for. It gave us that DAOC feeling that we so craved. Something warhammer online was suppose to give and fail to do.
I am going with the safe bet and playing a mes right now, however…I would drop it in a heart beat for a necromancer that is fun and works how it is being sold.
watch this
Does death shroud still works like that? I thought it goes off how much life you had when going in it. Meaning not as good for tanking. Am I wrong?
I mean that glass cannon dps looks fun.
That sucks, I should have looked at the forums before patching the game up. Guess I will give them a year or something.
Took a break since release, came back to see what is up. Was in the mood for a necro. Use to love them in EQ and other games.. Come to the forum to check out pet builds and stuff.
Holy kittens batman. The aura in this forum makes me want to cry. Is necromacers really that bad?
How bad are pets? I mean I see people saying they are bugged, but they got to be useful for something right? I don’t see them leaving them worthless for this long.