Guild Wars 2

Oh man… the “skilled players” are now having trouble with stability changes…. somehow you would think they would be able see beyond the GWEN meta but here we are….

Alex Caputo.7863:

The GvG scene is all but dead, since now the meta seems to be extreme CC with no frontline, making half the classes NOT EVEN WORTH PLAYING

The irony….

Zefrost.3425:

If you thought it was bad before with all of the pewpew from power necromancers, power rangers and every engineer before… then hold on to your hats!

Thieves are most likely getting rifle, warriors are most likely getting pistols, guardian is getting longbow and revenant has many ranged abilities including 100% physical projectile auto attack.

That’s at least 4 new additions to pewpew. Not including the random tryhard that uses things like pistol thief or longbow/rifle warrior in WvW.

Hammer engineer and greatsword necromancer will both have very little use anywhere (other than maybe PvE) due to lack of stability and the recent stability changes. For example: a necromancer who zerg dives with a greatsword = dead necromancer.

All of these changes coupled with the verticality of the new WvW mode = pewpew for everyone!

Are you seriously implying that popping stability and smashing things around you takes skill?….. Pewpew or 1111 meta same thing….

zinkz.7045:

Ogre.3124:

If GvGs were instanced similar to an spvp or tpvp matchup, many more people would be interested.

If Anet were to take “GvG” seriously, they would have to balance for it, because in case you’ve missed it the balance for “GvG” is a total joke, you have two classes that have been pretty much non-existent and two more that are woefully under-represented and they are never going to devote resources to a competitve format that certain classes basically cannot play, but the chances of that happening are zero as you can’t balance for small 2v2 – 3v3 encounters you get in tPvP and for 20 vs 20 where game mechanics basically break.

Let’s not forget that build variants are nothing but mere tweaks to traits & utility skills….

They’re basically playing the same classes (GWEN) and builds all the time, only thing that changes is the driver…

As much as u want to respect this game mode “GvGers” don’t helpt at all.

BTW I had to quote this….

Ogre.3124:

the gvg scene is simply dying off and the only support dev-wise is an open arena in obsidium sanctum (which everyone is thankful for.)

Iavra.8510:

Actually i know a fair share of people that want exactly that. Sadly WildStar dropped it with multiple bad design decisions.

If they make changes based on “a fair share” what we are seeing now is going to happen all over again.

if you want to join the “best” guilds in GW2 or any MMO expect some sort of elitism therefore ego, arrogance, rivalry, pretentiousness, pretty much what you would expect from a competitive enviroment.

Luvpie.8350:

Couple years late? ppt is dying game mode except for few servers or for staying in relevant tiers.

PPT should be byproduct of fights/stomps & not the main objective…

24/7 open world deathmatch is far from being the solution for WvW.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_Power_Roamer

lil devils x.6071:

Hmmm,.. maybe that petition idea those guys last year had wasn’t a bad idea. They just fumbled on the implementation. 1) it was a bad petition 2) no one knew about it. Now if they get thousands of players asking for something in petition form.. maybe they will take it seriously. XD

But that takes effort.. See that is the wvw players problem. If it is not fun why do it?

Hmm who can we pay to draw up a petition with a credit card?
Is that how you ask for things?

Of course it wasn’t a bad idea but they will see it in a cold/business way and I’m pretty sure things would have been different if all the toxicity that suddenly appeared didn’t even exist to begin with.

Imagine If tell to my boss in the morning “f*** you” then I write him a letter asking him for pemissions to have a day off the next week…. That’s how I see it, Anet saw the GvG comm as one entity and not individuals and sadly that legacy still persist among those GvGers who despise Anet, but I’m 100% certain that there are GvGers out there who have tried to ask for things in a civil way, sadly things were ruined pretty fast.

lil devils x.6071:

I am speaking from personal experience in regards to money spent. I couldn’t be bothered to play TP, or farm, for example, It is just easier to get what I want when I want. If it isn;t fun I am not going to do it, and I do not find PVE fun, I find it repulsive tbh. IF I had to go pve to play this I would not be here. " addiction of a few" No, I think it is just different levels of competitiveness, that does not mean they are addicted. Some play to win, not about addiction. Those that grind/farm are more addicted than those that drop cash on wvw. THose that have the money to spend don’t even have to play that much to win, and have more toys in game as well. Many just veiw their game as another asset to take care of like paying people to do your landscaping.. LOL

Winning can be an addiction too, keep that in mind, not labeling everyone who does that as an addict but it happens and I’m pretty sure you have found some “dedicated” players who takes things to a new level when it comes to gaming.

lil devils x.6071:

If GW2 is meant to be a causal MMO, why are they focusing on MOBA? That is the opposite of casual.

That is a whole new topic because we can’t tell what they are doing, like I said before, all classes are getting new weapons variables what we could be seeing are baby steps from Anet on their view of things, an expansion was out of question a few months ago, but here we are.

But the bridge between the WvW/GvG community and Anet is pretty much dead, we just don’t know how to ask for things…

lil devils x.6071:

Most of the pvp environments from games past were not " controlled environments" and yet they were the only pvp in games and players still flocked to them. Just look at games that charged $15 a month for players to have a non controlled pvp game and you will see that is not what makes it " serious pvp" or not. “controlled” does not necessarily equate to serious pvp. That is separate. DAoC WvWvW was it’s main attraction as well, and Anet heavily advertised they were basing Gw2 on DAoC prior to release. They made sure everyone knew they were basing this on DAoC, thus drawing a great deal of players from DAoC and Warhammer’s player base that just came here for that as well.

Sure there’s no such thing a perfect game mode, the balance/handicap in every game is always going to be subjective, same thing happens with any other type of games, RTS, Arcade, MOBA, etc yet you see the need to have a controlled enviroment in every game whos intentions are to promote a decent pvp mode but this was out of consideration when they announced that WvW was going to be a 24/7 game mode that is just taking it out of proportions of what we could consider a controlled enviroment.

Now base and replica are two different words, the exact same thing is happening with Stronghold which is based in GW1 GvG but it doesn’t mean that is going to be same game mode.

lil devils x.6071:

They have legendaries and ascended too, but do not have the time to farm while playing wvw thus they spend more real cash to get them …

This is in your own context thought, because I do spend 98% of the time in WvW and I was able to craft two legendaries so far by only playing TP, it takes time but it’s possible, pretty sure PvErs would also spend a few bucks to boost their legendary or ascended armor crusade a little, now no one is denying that WvW is an important game mode but some tend to interpret as serious PvP mode when it isn’t.

GW2 is intended as a casual MMO to begin with.

lil devils x.6071:

ALSO: Transfers are not the only thing they spend money on for wvw, they also buy influence to run pvt buffs on keeps all week, siege, upgrades for keeps and towers and gold to players to sit in towers and refresh siege. in addition the the best food weapons and armor in game.

Just because certain groups decide to take WvW “responsability” to a whole new level by spending lots of real money or sit in a tower 12hrs it doesn’t mean it will be a profitable market, you are basically trying to abuse the addiction of a few.

lil devils x.6071:

Handled by the GvG community? It is Anet that should " handle" it, not punish it’s players for the actions of a few. That is absurd. " burn bridges" with it’s players? YIKES. I certainly hope they do not view it that way, that is a surefire way to make a game die if that is the stance they take on trying to best gage it’s communities needs to keep the game alive for many years to come. That is the kind of talk that kills games, not makes them legend.

I wouldn’t label it as “punishment” more like a bad experience for Anet, that happened when you give too much information & power to certain branches of the gamer community, IMO they are ignoring not punishing to avoid problems, also take in consideration how every approach by the gvg community is terrible if anything that the Sacrx experience left is the need to insult and degrade Anet in every possible way because they didn’t get what they asked for.

Now what we are currently seeing is that Ranger and Engineer will have weapons that could work with the GWEN meta, so who knows maybe Anet is giving baby steps to have a better setup for what we know as GvG in GW2, we will see.

lil devils x.6071:

This game already has THREE, NOT TWO game modes. Why do you leave out the most heavily advertised portion of the game? WvW was the primary selling point for this game, and the most heavily advertised. If they lose the WvW players from the game, they lose their gravy train, as they are the ones who pay for everything in game with credit cards instead of farming it. PvP doesn’t need weapons, armor, food, siege, or to pay for upgrades, Pvp doesn’t make them any money. You make $$ in both pvp and PvE, you spend it in wvw.

It is in wvw where people pay for entire guilds of 500 people to transfer servers with credit cards. It is in wvw where they pay players gold to sit in towers. It is wvw that players run up the credit card bills. No other game modes are as profitable as WvW, yet you do not even bother to mention it. Sure, lets send all the money to other games and see how well that works out financially while you chase the unattainable esport that other mmorpgs with much more resources already failed at it. DID they not pay attention to why WoW didn’t cut it as an esport? LOL

WvW never been taken as a serious PvP mode because it was never intended to be that, just take in consideration all the handicap presented in it.

1.- Money
2.- Ascended Armor
3.- Food
4.- Utility items
4.- WvW Buffs (Not bloodlust)
5.- Bloodlust
6.- Gem Consumables
7.- Uplevels
8.- Siege
9.- Open World
10.- PvE format Skills
11.- Guard Buffs

We don’t have a controlled enviroment like any PvP mode would demand.

About how much money I would take it with a grain of salt, because everyone uses the gem store, no matter what game you’re playing, they add cool stuff for all the branches of GW2, ppters/roamers/gvgers/duelers all are involved in WvW not only GvGers money and transfers…. yes and no it has become a common practice for all server to have donation pool in order to help guilds transfer (Talking about NA T1-T2) to fill in the coverage as much as possible. aka buying guilds.

And by using those arguments you’re contradicting yourself, if they give to GvG their own game mode, transfers are not going to be particularly necessary.

lil devils x.6071:

GW is not LoL, WoW is not LoL.. LoL players are not going to jump ship and come running over here.. that was the mistake many games made thinking that would ever happen.

In regards to class balances, I do not recall anyone asking for any class changes for GvG, they utilize them accordingly as it is. Why would they need to change them for this considering they already use them as is in wvw? Do they not already consider wvw when they implement the tweaks currently? The 3rd scenario ( wvw) has already been on the table and one of the biggest selling points for this game, nothing changes simply because they add GvG in that regard. Mesmers are used for portals and veils primarily and engineers are used to take out warriors, that doesn’t change simply by implementing GvG.

“GW is not LoL”
No one is saying it is but that business model is selling, Anet/NCSOFT are going to have an eye on them, just like FFXIV keeps an eye on GW2 since GW2 is F2P and FFXIV is P2P, FFXIV is not GW2 if anything is more like WoW. You have to understand how marketing works.

“I do not recall anyone asking for any class changes for GvG”
Because GvG is a community game mode, of course you haven’t seen any demand on class balance it would be a dead cause to ask for any changes… But if they ever implement it, oficially, is going to bring those supporters of classes outside of the GWEN meta, just like stronghold will because it must include all classes, it won’t be a good image for Anet to have a game mode where only certain classes excel.

“The 3rd scenario ( wvw) has already been on the table”
No as what class balance means, it’s a 3rd element when it comes to game developing in general, but you have never seen WvW as a defining factor for class balance, WvW is only taken in consideration for PvE & sPvP balances, we only have WvW skills that are siege wise. The only real balancing they have done to WvW (PvP wise) is removing all the PvE consumables. WvW is intended as a casual PvP mode, there’s a reason why is 24/7.

lil devils x.6071:

Best GvG I have seen used mesmers very well portal bombing.

Best example of why mesmer is currently only an utility class in the GWEN meta… it’s either veil or portal.

Avit.3165:

5v5? 5v5 GvG? Seriously? That’s what they call GvG, what’s the difference from sPvP we already have, only because these 5 people can be from the same guild?
After two and a half years of “not posting doesn’t mean we not listening” they came up with this? Obviously they didn’t hear/read a word from this forum, now we know this for sure. Ask me if im gonna buy this …….
I don’t know what to do, to laugh or cry.

They never said Stronghold was going to be a response to the GvG community to begin with, the community decided to interpret it like that.

http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-stronghold/

They never mention WvW GvG, they do mention GW1 GvG nostalgia & condensed World vs World experience.

The bridge was burnt after the Sacrx incident so I wouldn’t expect much attention from Anet, it sucks, but pretty much the GvG comm blew their chances after that, it was awfully handled especially by the GvG community.

Chris.3290:

Seriously, what caused this obsession?

I could ask the same exact thing about GvG, yet everyone knows the answer, same goes with Anet, is a business afterall.

lil devils x.6071:

How does their cpu currently handle wvw pops of 80 players per server on map? 40 vs 40 is far less than the wvw 80 vs 80 vs 80.

I am not seeing how having smaller teams would be more profitable for Anet. In what way would smaller esports teams be more profitable than larger ones? Simply because most esports are small scale does not mean that there is not room for much larger esports teams. That isn’t what determines whether or not it becomes popular. Hell even Wow’s 3 on 3 battles are considered unwatchable as far as esports are concerned, numbers are not the issue there, it is the game design itself.

ALSO I do not think 40 vs 40 should be the only mode, it should have dueling/ 5v5, 10v10, 20 v20 options as well.. 40 being the max.

You can compare real sports to gaming as well, and the NFL, which is extremely profitable for example, has more than 5 on 5. Focusing on numbers isn’t going to help, as many games do not cut it as an esport even with small scale pvp, that will not be the determining factor as to whether or not it is profitable. What surely ISN’T profitable however, is running off large guilds by telling them they are not welcome here.

You’re assuming every person with a bad gpu/cpu goes where the blob is, yet you still have to think for them or they will eventually come in here and demand a fix.

“Smaller teams & Focusing on numbers” that will just bring new questions.

So let’s say we get past the 1st question and ignore 40vs one, what is the current meta in the community GvG which basically has not changed that much…
GWEN, 4 classes which practically uses Mesmer as a utility class and Thief as gank..
That just bring more questions…

What happens with the other classes?

Would this require to adjust Ranger & Engineer to the GWEN meta?

Incoming class, so how its going to perfom in the current GWEN meta? (We don’t know yet)

Why is mesmer just an utility class in the GWEN meta?

Should Thief be able to run both Gank & Stack meta?

Would this create a 3rd scenario to define class balance therefore a new dev team?
More resources (Currently we have sPvP & PvE)

How much time/resources would class balance now require with a 3rd scenario in the table?
Remember what separates sPvP & PvE are “small” tweaks to skills & traits but if we add a 3rd scenario is going to take more resources, we are talking of hundreds of skills and traits here.

Of course numbers are important, they will basically tell you how many resources you will need in order to execute/run X game mode, it won’t be defining factor but sure is an important one, just like if the game mode is profitable or not.

lil devils x.6071:

there is no guarantee of success there.. at all.

There is no guarantee of success for anything, that’s why every move Anet does is a risk yet they will try analyze the market and come with the best proposal. As much as I hate LoL that’s what is selling right now, GW2 is F2P afterall, you also have to think about the big brother…. pretty sure Anet can’t do new game implementations that easily.

lil devils x.6071:

Bristingr.5034:

Then exactly how does one do a GvG? There has to be a cap to how many can participate, because I doubt a map would do well in 500 vs. 500.

A guild of 5 people would never be able to go up against the larger guilds of 50, or 100+.

But the way I am understanding is, they don’t want a cap. They want to bring their ENTIRE guild, which just isn’t feasible. Most players would suffer from graphical and hardware lag.

What do you want? 10 vs. 10? 20 vs. 20? How would it even work? 20 rounds of 1 vs. 1? Gzerg vs. Gzerg?

The next thing is, how would players even want it? Similar to WvW (keeping towers and keeps) or just a massive Colosseum (similar to Obsidian Sanctum), that would allow spectators to watch from the stands?

Lastly, how would this affect World vs. World? How many players would it pull away from WvW?

On other games, yea we actually had battles with over a thousand people. However, I think many would be happy here even if it were just a 40vs 40 cap for large scale GvG such as wildstar has.

There are pros and cons to pulling guilds from wvw for GVG. First, The good news is, sometimes you get a map que and own no keeps or towers because they are only focused on fighting and not ppt, yea those guys would not be on map taking up space, making room for more ppters. There would be more focus in wvw on ppt instead.

The bad news is , if all your server has is fight guilds, ya you are going to drop fast. But if they actually resolved the current population imbalance issues properly, that would not happen, as the servers would have already been condensed and restructured by then.

2 quick questions…

1. Is it profitable to have this game mode? esport wise

This is how you have to think… this is not about your friends or how many petitions you sign, is about business, Anet is a private entity not a charity one.

2. “40vs40”… How would those with bad gpu/cpu be able to handle it?

As a developer you have to think possible scenarios not only throw random suggestions. This is GW2 not WildStar, two different games, two different studios.

Gawd…. mag pvf’ers you guys really like repeating yourself A LOT… we get it… you don’t care about PPT, you don’t zerg, blobs qq… gawd now I see that you’re just the usual kid who wants to feel special…

I guess it’s my fault for expecting more creativity from mag trolls

#sad #emo #lifesucks #disappointment #magswag #magshinypark