Guild Wars 2

Just make them move slower and give them more skills to knockback, cripple etc… They should NOT be able to outrun everyone like little fairies…

If anything, Warrior needs a few small debuffs
No need to go in to that here

Anet’s solution of fixing thief:
Buff Deadly Art, Shadow Art and Trickery

@Dave

I don’t think you followed along the conversation between me and DarkSyze at all.

Either way it ended.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Xillllix.3485:

I was fighting the ultimate annoying combo today: CC engi with slick shoes, daze mesmer with so many skills bursts and clones it’s almost funny (specially when you are moa), and ranger pewpewing from 1500 range. Just makes you want to uninstall the game.

I don’t what happened with class balance, but things are just getting worse and worse. The stability changes made Slick Shoes completely broken, the longbow buff is unjustifiable…

I didn’t want to rant but seriously Anet, why allow Moa in PvP? how can you 1v1 someone that has a 12k + burst when you are stuck moa for 10 seconds? Like compare ele elites for example, they don’t even do anything helpful, but Mesmer has an elite that makes it impossible to fight for 10 seconds? lol we’re light years from eSport there.

Instead of spamming your CC during your spam skill rotations, just wait until the highly animated, long cast timed Moa skill starts to channel and interrupt it.

If you’re ele follow through with a Tornado and spam 3 CC knockback into oblivion for maximum effect ;D

Edit: Oh, and don’t try to 1v3 then come to the forums to complain like it’s the Mesmer classes fault when you lose?

Oh for god sake…mesmers use moa from freaking stealth, just let’s stop this “long animation” BS already, I have no complaints against mesmer…but Moa used from stealth is utterly broken, ridiculous design

Terrorsquad.2349:

Rezzet.3614:

Volrath.1473:

Ofc thieves should be punished for missing attacks!! After all, all other professions get punished with conditions for missing their skills right?!… Right?!….

/facepalm

Other professions are indeed punished if they get blinded and miss their skills their skills enter cooldown if other professions use skills on a blocking players their skills enter cooldown , thief is the only profession that has access to easy stealth and shadowsteps and ontop of that a non cooldown system and to top it off their auto attack skills become stealth high damage skills so being auto attack skills means they dont cost initiative thus thief is not being punished in any way .

this thread isnt even asking for thief nerfs but simply make stealth be counterable .

Thieves get punished other ways when non-thieves are not:

• You can stand on point and stay for cleave DPS midst teamfight
• You can contest the point if teammate is low (to keep it yours)
• You have more chances surviving while reviving a downed teammate
• You can pressure a whole point with AoE’s + doom/geomancy sigil
• You have more survivability vs attacks head-on
• You can survive better while performing more auto-attackchains in 1v1 or teamfights
• You can win vs low to average thieves without even noticing he’s trying to attack you (AoE DPS/Condi/Peel)
• You are easier to cleanse/heal compared than a thief midst teamfight
• A Thief can easier be seen useless to your team due wrong rotation (if team has equally good experienced players)
• List can go on and on..

Im sure u can find some things about what Thief can and others not but if you think about it, other burst classes can do lots of things thief can, while this list shows what a thief cannot do reliably while others can (excluding mesmer, ofc)

FYI: people who cannot stop attacking whilst blinded or getting blocked, should be punished with CD’s.. (Stow Weapon FTW)

You list weaknesses that are shared by every other zerker spec in the game; you compare them to sustain builds, used to hold points which is the aim of the main game mode.

The main difference is that other zerker builds will perform way below the standards set by thief unless you want to tell me that there is a single zerker build out there that will be chosen over thief to cover the role of main burst

Still I’m not even asking to nerf thieves all I’m saying is that thief mechanic has no direct counterplay respect to all other professions.

1)No way to influence the thief ability to gain initiative, you can’t slow it down, block or reduce

2)You can’t interact with the thief once he’s stealthed, that’s basically invulnerability

Here some other good idea that I catched on these forums:

1) Thief becomes partially visible(outlined) if he’kitten while stealthed

2) Thief get revealed if he sit in stealth waiting to regain momentum, without attacking

DarkSyze.8627:

Again, i find this thread interesting. Example: in real life: sometimes even your enemies can care and have compassion for you and will even help you.

Do you know how many enemies thief players help me in the game: save me?

Alot.

Thread like this make me feel: many thieves players care, have compassion and understand why we other professions are suffering by your profession and want to see serious change like us

That is all

I agree DarkSyze and i read a lot of your posts and think they are all very true.

I play longbow ranger and the only thing i can do vs thief is stand still and wait for him to kill me because fighting back is useless, he just teleport away go in stealth and heal back to full hp. I think a lot of stuff has to be changed on the thief profession to make it balanced. Start with the insane amount of stealth would be a good and backstab damage also.

Jekkt.6045:

Cynz.9437:

people complain about stealth in pvp? wat?

thief went to reset? good… you got point, enjoy your match points~

also i love how people cry “omg thief can reset”…. and somehow forget to mention that the moment thief goes ooc their target is also ooc and gets to heal up…

i think it is hilarious to say that thief doesn’t get punished for failed attack… if anything thieves get punished the most for single mistake in game atm….

you don’t reset as a thief. you sit in stealth until crucial skills are off cooldown, like steal or withdraw, and then you go at it again. or you sit out invul skills in stealth, another gimmick that renders other classes’ defensive skills useless. thieves don’t get punished for single mistakes at all. thieves have on demand teleports that can save their kitten s in most situations and make cc useless if you don’t force the 2 stunbreaks before.

thief is also the only class in the game that is unkiteable as they have teleports that are not tied to cooldowns while other classes’ teleports are on a 30-40s cooldown. so if a thief wants to chase you he will do so and you will not get away most of the time.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks, this will change though as soon as thieves will be able to run 3 traitlines, in fact thieves with vampire runes can already kill guardians because mist form will save them when they eat a mighty blow combo or get trapped by the ring.

the thief’s class design is broken and to fix it they would have to overhaul the whole class which is obviously not gonna happen.

they learned their lesson with energy ressource or why else do revenants have actual cooldowns on their skills + the energy cost.

Agreed

Zerker thief will lose to condi engi.

Only time you win is if you GREATLY out skill your opponent

I’m 99% sure that ship has sailed and it would essentially take a re-launch that’d kitten off a bunch of the remaining player base if they did it.

A big part of it is the structure. Things like ‘completely separate PvP mode!’ appeal to the die-hard MMO PvP community, but not to the mass community. Making it easy to drop in and play, with a strong progressive reward structure, are crucial to building a community that can sustain an esport. A.Net didn’t fail in this regard – they didn’t even try. Their game had essentially no chance at launch, owing entirely to the structure of PvP in their game. If it’s not set up to attract players, how can you hope to develop to the point of being an esport?

Things like balance are a secondary concern. Of course it would be good to actually see A.Net be responsive to balance at all. I understand it to be more a product of a staggeringly ineffective structure than not having the manpower; still, in an industry characterized by weekly or bimonthly patch cycles, a game characterized by biannual balance patch cycles is laughably unresponsive.

Short version: their initial design and structure was going to make it nigh-impossible to create an esports-level infrastructure, and neglecting to do much of the relevant post-launch development work for close to 3 years isn’t going to overcome that initial deficiency.

Puck.1509:

… what would I believe really fix the competitive edge to PvP, It is a simple fix, but it just takes them a glance to get an idea. A voice and a following would priorities their attention, if more people spoke out about solutions, if we directed them as a community we would stand a chance at changing this for the better and hopefully to its success….

No, GW2 devs have been and will continue to ignore the PVP community. Their history has shown that we are not a priority to them. PVP lacks competition because with competition must come a rating system which would show if someone is better or worse than you. AND THAT is everything that arena net is against. Its why we cant have dueling, its why in WvW names are hidden, It’s why we have no visible (or even effective) mmr system, Its why there are no other game modes than conquest (in conquest being bad is easily hidden as we all know the point system doesn’t reflect skill level and you cant watch all 4 teammates to see who’s bad because they aren’t always near you) . It’s why rewards are all obtainable with linear progression, you can lose every game ever and still get to dragon rank, get all the glorious armor etc. It’s why damage meters don’t exist, its why mods aren’t aloud, and it’s why there is no voice chat in game.

Arena Net is afraid that peoples feelings will get hurt and unfortunately that’s what competitive play brings. So no, unless Anet stops telling everyone they are the best like a parent to child, we will never get the competitive pvp scene we want.

Like Saiyan said, in solo situation condition isn’t bad at all, but compare to a direct damage build in group, you gonna only have less than half the dps. The problem is how condition work for now. We’ll see how it will perform with HoT.

Now for your build specifically.

1) If you have a torch on both set you already gonna have perma burning with the F1. No need for judge intervention at all.
2) Your gear is super defensive. No problem if you need some training wheels, but that’s not a good choice if you want some performance out of your build. Sinister will be far superior or at least Carrion.
3) Runes of Baltahzar. Again you already have perma burning no need for more. Rune of the Undead could be better for you, especially if the additional toughness allow you to use Sinister gear. Alternatively you could take keep Runes of Baltahzar and remove some burning ability from your trait instead. Another option could to take a rune that give general condition duration or bleeding duration and use a sigil to give you more variety with your condition. Burning alone is a huge limiting factor.
4) Sigil of bursting is a good choice, but it’s expensive for a unoptimized build, while the sigil of burning is something you could remove with the quantity of buring you already have. Sigil of Agony + Sigil of Earth could make some better use of your condition damage. Sigil of Corruption is also a good choice for open world pve.

You over did it on the burning. Once you reach perma burning (which is the easiest thing to do with a guardian), each burning duration, trait, sigil or rune is a complete waste. You need to balance thing out to reach just perma burning with a little breathing room, but not more. The rest can go to either direct damage or other condition. You also have a terribly tanky build that handicap your already weak dps. It’s ok if you like playing like that, it will be easier, but also far longer.

That’s Anet for you! Even the Turret problem should be dealt with by now. But guess what? They won’t fix it. They would’ve already if they wanted to.

Many people have asked about my current build so I made this video and posted the build on MetaBattle if anyone is interested in checking it out.

I think the might nerf was a complete failure. It was an easy fix to a problem that needed a different solution. The better fix at this point would be the following:

1. Revert the might nerf
2. Tone down cele amulet in PvP by 50 points per stat
3. Reduce the ability of ele and engi to stack might on themselves

Might stacking has been completely overpowered for 2 years.

ENG has been overpowered for 2 years, even without celestial amulet it would still be the best class in the game.

I know the devs already mentioned they dont have the resources to create a 4th mode called “GvG”. Yet the reason players asked for this was simply because GvG gave us certain things we didn’t have. The biggest thing is the ability to fight every and any guild we can. If we had this ability, things would be find imo. Leaderboards arn’t needed and almost every GvG enthusiast whose been around the scene for some time knows that there have been attempts to organize leaderboards in the past and that they never work.

So one of the main problems is that we can’t fight whoever we want. We are limited to fighting the people within our own matchup. EOTM GvGs rarely if ever happen because of the chaotic nature of EOTM that would disrupt GvGs, griefing, etc.

My idea is that with the upcoming guild halls, we could have the ability to buy an instanced arena for our guild hall that we can invite other guilds to, to fight in. Perhaps one that could be purchased through the gemstore, like one of the custom arenas. One that supports up to 15 or 20 players per team. This would solve the problem of not being able to fight guilds on our own server, or guilds in a different matchup.

:/ The OP also forgot to mention somewhere in the end for those that don’t like stealth to please wait, there will be nerfs.

They need to nerf thieves. Their escape mechanisms are too powerfull. Steal with 4 sec daze every 35 or less sec ?…what to says bout that. I dont even want to talk about HS and BS dmg on 3.2 k armor (9k+). BS must be nerfed to 1 1/4s cast to be able to dodge. Too much freedom for easy OP class. Some attacks must cost more intitative 4 or 5. Class is just easy and dull.

DarkSyze.8627:

Zero Day.2594:

:/ The OP also forgot to mention somewhere in the end for those that don’t like stealth to please wait, there will be nerfs.

Zero Day; you know there will not be nerfs until arena net is serious about make thief challenge class. Look example; 2 year; so many player tell arena net problem about thief and here is result; thief is still problem. Example; if car always have same problem when take to car mechanic; do you not have reason to complain and not be happy?

Yeah you’re right, and the reveal debuff was always 4 seconds in sPvP, and choking gas caused you to get revealed since day 1 of the release.

A car mechanic just needs to fix my car, he doesn’t get kittened at by other people if my car goes faster/runs better than theirs.

DarkSyze.8627:

See thief now and compare with past 2012; what plenty of nerfs? I want you read this; http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmers-cause-meta

Very nicely worded, I must say.

And this is only looking at it from the sPvP angle and leaves out the group stealth issue and the hiding-in-structures issue, both of which are more or less WvW exclusive issues.