Guild Wars 2

Honestly the bottleneck is their own corporate culture they’ve built up that says its ok to let small teams screw off for 8-12 months without any tangible progress.

Seriously how long have they been saying “Oh yeah, the Tribal armor. We sure do want to get that back in the game…”

These are the people who dream themselves a relevant competitor on the E-sports scene and yet haven’t noticed their successful role-models deliver meaningful balance adjustments on a two week cycle not a ’we might address that maybe in the next SIX MONTHS" cycle.

Their internal accountability to deadlines is in shambles.

Abelinkkin.9315:

I’m not level 80 so I don’t know what half of this means. I’m sure there is something in this post worth grabbing a pitchfork and rioting over… :P

Rioting over? Not really.
Finding some other game to sink your time into until the July update? Oh yes.

mrauls.6519:

So, does this include class balancing?

I’m sure we will see some thumb-twiddling micro-tweaks that do nothing to the meta while still managing to enrage PvE’ers. They have standards to uphold, after all.

Behellagh.1468:

This is how the community sets itself up for disappointment, reading what’s said and then saying something entirely different.

Because ANet obviously has no responsibility for confusion caused by releasing a post about “what’ gonna be in the April update” that’s filled with stuff that won’t be happening yet in April . It’s called ‘bringing it on yourself’.

Shadows Creed.3902:

The bluntness and cut and dry of the post by MO is great to see in my eyes. There isn’t a wondering about what is going on. Even if it is unpopular I am glad that he is just being communicative and forthright with what is going on and the direction it is going.

This I agree with 100%. If he can keep this up once-or-twice-a-week from now on, it will put GW2 back on the list of games to watch. For a lot more than just current players. Solid communication reaches out to lapsed players and help bring in new ones too.

DoctorDing.5890:

Legal challenge: not going to happen. Everyone is an armchair law expert. Most of them are wrong.

Refund: also not going to happen unless you bought the game very recently. Even then, good luck.

If you believe anything else then, frankly, you are dreaming.

Gem buying suspended indefinitely? Gonna happen. A lot.

Pre-order for ex-pac 2 given the sharpest scrutiny with every single bullet point being something that might get ‘suspended indefinitely’? Gonna happen. A lot.

The butcher’s bill for this decision is in the far off future… and they’re gambling that they can win people back or that it’ll be forgotten before then… but its still a huge gamble and one that could very well gut their revenue when those 70 Ex-pac Devs finally do put down their pencils and hand in their work.

Deleena.3406:

I would just be happy if we could simply show headwear armor while in outfits

So you’re 1/6th of the way to wishing it was armor. Now all you need is to wish you could turn off the shoulders or use costumes with the aura’s that take up shoulder slots and you’d by 1/3 of the way to wishing it was armor.

Then maybe it’s wishing you were able to wear the gloves you want with an outfit and you’re half way there…

…Or you could just skip to the punch line and join the growing chorus saying “Anet, the costumes are BLATANTLY built on armor rigs. Please make those pieces also available as armor of the same weight as it’s already designed around.”

Then people who like cookie cutters/leveling skins can have their cookie cutter/leveling skins and people who like to mix-and-match can do so using the same assets twice. (all without trying to hide behind a “but it’s the clipping” defense that doesn’t even pass the laugh test…)

It literally makes my head hurt watching them throw money on the ground like this. Fortunately after seeing that their “lets hide 9 suits of armor behind zone-wide event omega-grinds” scheme pretty much blew up in their faces, they might finally dump the “armor ONLY comes from in-game activities” as the steaming skritt droppings decision that it is.

So we’re a week into April and still not word one about balance changes. a.k.a. “we may tell you about them, but we haven’t left ourselves enough to react when the players point out some ridiculously broken new interaction it’s going to cause. Again.”

The problem is the names and faces change but the company DOESN’T LEARN. You have habits in your corporate culture that lead to repeating the same easily avoidable miss-steps over and over and yet you just can’t close that feedback loop to stop doing those things most of the time.

Go back and look at your population curves for Orr for the six months following launch and see if you don’t see something spookily familiar with what’s happening in the HoT maps…

Mike O Brien.4613:

Hi all,

Two weeks ago I posted that we were starting integration and final testing for the Spring Quarterly Update. It’s been two busy weeks. The quarterly update is through QA and looking good. We’re going to announce the release date tomorrow.

As we prep for release, you’ll notice that we’re not doing the series of advance blog posts that we had done for some prior releases. Hopefully that’s not too surprising; I’ve written a few times since taking this role that I think our job is to delight you with what we ship, not with talk and promises.

With everything prepped now, let’s have some fun together and see some hints of what’s coming, and then we’ll see you in the game on release day.

So, your take away from all the previous release day mishaps like changing how karma potions work without forewarning, having to change them back so people could cash out properly, then changing them AGAIN is that “really, my team can do no wrong.”

You want to find out about all your problems face first when it hits Live instead of giving your content even a brief review by the larger playerbase… Strap in, cause I’m MASHING THAT “COMMIT” BUTTON.

Ok. Sure. I’m game. Lets see how this plays out.

History says “Badly, duh.” But what does history know?

I think this thread proves decisively, even more so than any of the ‘how old are you?’ threads that the average age of MMO players is going up.

MetalGirl.2370:

You cant just get in a game after few years and DEMAND you get what you missed.

I’ve been around since release and I’ve played through Season 1. I know this may sound strange to you, but it was actually selfless suggestion and call for more consistent and more polished experience for ALL.

So maybe people like YOU should stop demanding me to do this or that, from a perspective of baseless assumptions.

Vayne.8563:

Healix.5819:

Behellagh.1468:

1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.

“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)

There’s also the Xunlai Ingot

From the same article:

“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”

Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.

They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.

When someone says “We are raising crafts to 500 but as we iterate they are subject to change” the reasonable assumption is that said systems already exist and are being modified and iterated upon, not that they are completely gutted (if there was anything to gut in the first place) and removed from the game.

Since we are comparing stuff.
Customer commissioned me to make a four legged table and I deliver them table with only two legs and I also brought bunch of books to be put in place of missing legs. Naturally customer is kittened. But then another guy who also bought it starts defending me and my two legged table telling my latest customer how he/she should be grateful for having any legs at all and that books are perfectly good substitute.
This is what’s happening right now.

Interpreting such vague statements in a way you’re doing is a basically a blank check for never finishing anything and freedom from responsibility for not delivering listed stuff. The future posts like “Looking ahead” should, by that logic, probably contain only one sentence:
“Do not expect anything.”

Behellagh.1468:

1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.

“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)

There’s also the Xunlai Ingot

STIHL.2489:

Ok a few things.

• There is no need to make 500 Jewel Crafting when All Ascended Trinkets can be Bought or Drop.
• Ascended Rings have the stats of an Exotic Ring + Upgrade, and a little bit more.
• Ascended Food? Really? Do we need to go there?

Jewel Crafting 500 can make the ascended trinkets that are harder to get (HoT and future expansions), upgrade old jewels to new ones that are hard to come by or simply don’t exist outside of creating them, or create something entirely different. Remember the Halloween necklaces that have a jewel in them that turns you a different color? There’s an example of what 500 jewel crafting could do. Or how about a set of rare skins? Gemmed weapons and armor, perhaps?

The same goes with 500 skill in cooking. Forget just bigger stats, what about longer duration? Or some cosmetic effect? There’s in-game precedent for food that changes your size, why not some that lasts for 30 minutes and can be used in combat? Or brewing? Imagine a raid/dungeon/fractal where some bad guys can be heard complaining about the lack of good ale before the fight starts. Then, someone finds out that getting a big and difficult to make keg of 500 cooking skill ale and setting it out before the fight causes the NPCs to turn friendly, and unlock a hidden door to a different fight. We don’t have to stick to just the old uses.

Obtena.7952:

Dinks.2478:

Obtena.7952:

Chalk it up to whatever you want. I don’t think the ‘why’ that explains the 6 mon dev time for one legendary weapon is all that relevant. In fact, it could be longer or shorter to develop a Legendary weapon; We have no way to know. I do know that if it takes months to release a Legendary, 2, 3, 4 6, whatever. That’s a long time.

Anet is on the record saying it takes about a month to create the new legendaries + collections. Since it shouldn’t take 6 people to make one a properly managed and competent team should be able to do 2-3 legendaries a month. Which is reasonable to me. So I think it is very relevant of the reason why.

Yet they haven’t done so … either they under estimated or they haven’t been focused on it. So seems to me whatever is happening over there … it’s not happening.

I think this is something a lot of us can agree with. Whether or not it’s dev issues, management issues or some other uncontrollable issue (Anet flu epidemic etc) we’ll most likely never know and it doesn’t matter. My issue with the whole situation is, as a company director myself, if I accept money for supplying a service/product then I’ll bloody-well make sure I deliver, end of story, no excuses.

Obtena.7952:

Chalk it up to whatever you want. I don’t think the ‘why’ that explains the 6 mon dev time for one legendary weapon is all that relevant. In fact, it could be longer or shorter to develop a Legendary weapon; We have no way to know. I do know that if it takes months to release a Legendary, 2, 3, 4 6, whatever. That’s a long time.

Anet is on the record saying it takes about a month to create the new legendaries + collections. Since it shouldn’t take 6 people to make one a properly managed and competent team should be able to do 2-3 legendaries a month. Which is reasonable to me. So I think it is very relevant of the reason why.

Obtena.7952:

Dinks.2478:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

(edit)
That kitten filter. I always forget that I can’t put an “a” in front of “$50” because it thinks $ and 5 are both S’s.
Not even going to fix it this late.

Exactly why they have made this particular decision; to reallocate resources to minimize droughts. Funny how people don’t see, or what to see that.

They reallocated an entire team from one project to another project. Unfortunately that entire team was only 6 people so good job, we’ll now get the new content to end the drought in 5 months and 2 weeks instead of 6 months. Congrats

I won’t argue with your estimates on the times or durations but … EXACTLY. There is more pertinent content that they can probably release faster if they allocate the resources to it. That’s an even more sensible thing to do if those resources are languishing on some dead end project that doesn’t deliver.

I get that people are angry about the cancelation, but there is no way you can defend the release of a single Legendary weapon 6 months after the release of HoT as reasonable delivery on that project … they would have completed the second legendary set in time for the game servers to shut down. GG!

I’d chalk 6 months to make 1 legendary up to developer incompetence.

edit: well actually I’ll be fair and say it could also be poor management, but that just swings back to blaming Mike O’Brien so either way.

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

(edit)
That kitten filter. I always forget that I can’t put an “a” in front of “$50” because it thinks $ and 5 are both S’s.
Not even going to fix it this late.

Exactly why they have made this particular decision; to reallocate resources to minimize droughts. Funny how people don’t see, or what to see that.

Yep.

Or only see what they want to see. Right?

Ticky.5831:

Honestly there isn’t even a content drought. Raids are still being released regularly. It may not be the content everyone is interested in, but it’s content.

The fact that the only content getting released is a content that a large part of the game population didn’t ever want to see in this game makes the whole situation even worse.

I find it funny that MO would use the terms “content drought” to justify stopping work on legendaries that were meant to be in the expansion, and then gets infuriated when people mention the expansion wasn’t finished or seems half done.

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

If you’re arguing against those who hold that anet was wrong to choose to not deliver what they advertised, then you’re arguing in favor of anet not delivering what they advertise. You are, in essence, arguing in favor of anet not delivering what YOU pay for someday.

Why would you do that?

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Should they be willing to give partial refunds, the big dilemma is how does ANet distinguish between those who bought HoT primarilly for the legendaries and those who’d just want a partial refund ‘cause it’s being handed out?

Why even ask such a question? Why people bought HoT is irrelevant.

What is relevant and what cannot be denied is this: Anet took money for something they advertised and didn’t deliver. Therefore, any refund given should be given to everyone who bought HoT, because everyone who bought HoT didn’t get what anet told them they would get for their money.

Broken Memory.1436:

Ticky.5831:

Broken Memory.1436:

Sadly I’m not gonna read 50 pages of threading to see 2-3 constructive feedback and 49 Pages of whining. I did read the first 10 or so pages and got tired of seeing everyone whine. I then started only looking at what Mo had to say and then moved on to the later opinions people had. Still the majority is whining which in my opinion is really sad for such a big community game.

It’s ok to complain about things. People are expected to be sad when they are disappointed, and hurt when they are betrayed. You don’t have to go through life being a doormat.

I do agree we dont need to go through life being a doormat but rather make your feelings into something useful or something constructive atleast.

It has been proven time and time again that the only way to reach Anet is by withholding money, bad reviews and yelling as loud as possible.

All reasonable and mature responses have yielded 0 results over 4 years, yet yelling and screaming and making a fuss and leaving bad reviews has lead to a positive change in almost a dozen separate instances.

If Anet wants to change the response then they need to change their policy first. Until then we will do what is necessary to enact change.

> 0 people working on an unfinished feature from the last expansion
> 70 people working on the next expansion

Seems reasonable to me. Sure, you charged an industry-high for an unfinished expansion on the understanding that all the unfinished features would be added post-launch. And sure, you’re now telling us you won’t be delivering the features we already paid for. But it’s not like the lack of trust from your customers that you’re operating in good faith will hurt the sales of your next expansion. Or at least that’s the gamble you’re willing to take.

Well good thing there are other parts of the game that were removed and canceled as well.

And Obtena, if ANET would really be canceling the content that it’s not approached by many players, then why are they still working on the legendary armors?
Not only will the players have to go trough the similar process as they are going trough with the legendary weapons (presumably the reason why people aren’t approaching them), but they would also have to raid multiple times (considering they would have to get the insights), which is already on it’s own a small neiche.
At the same time, they have to design over 50 armor parts (for different races and genders) while in the case of the legendary weapons, they would only have to make 13.

Ashen.2907:

Obtena.7952:

Right … making a mistake, recognizing a bad business decision and stopping low-value development now equates to immaturity. I suspect posts only get better from here.

Choosing to not fulfill your responsibilities, honor your obligations, or keep your word?

Yeah, that could certainly be considered immature behavior.

Making a, “mistake,” and leaving others holding the bag for it is not what I would consider the mature thing to do.

They said they would – actually sold the product saying they would have all these legionaries. The lesson is to not believe them or at least take a bucket of salt with anything that they say. Generally people who say they’re going to do something and don’t are called liars.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think there is any value in discussing what seems to be, just like arguments based on human fallibility. Making guesses isn’t compelling discussion. I don’t think it’s honest to justify ‘making a ruckus’ to get something you want; I would like to think we are dealing with a higher level maturity here.

Think what you like. There have been situations in which, after forum backlash was picked up by outside media, Anet has changed their actions to be more in-line with preferences expressed on the forums.

When that something that people want is something that they have already paid for, perhaps a ruckus is appropriate.

I would like to think that we are dealing with a level of maturity in which one keeps one’s promises and provides the product or service for which one has taken payment as well.

Obtena.7952:

Right … making a mistake, recognizing a bad business decision and stopping low-value development now equates to immaturity. I suspect posts only get better from here.

Choosing to not fulfill your responsibilities, honor your obligations, or keep your word?

Yeah, that could certainly be considered immature behavior.

Making a, “mistake,” and leaving others holding the bag for it is not what I would consider the mature thing to do.

Obtena.7952:

Right … making a mistake, recognizing a bad business decision and stopping low-value development now equates to immaturity.

The bad business decision was taking people’s money and then deciding not to give them what they paid for. Whether or not it’s immature is irrelevant; it most certainly is unethical.

Do you not agree? Will you give them money in the future, knowing that you might not get what you paid for?

Obtena.7952:

I’m certain that’s how it looks if you take it out of the context of a business. I mean, sure, let’s demand Anet continue legendaries development regardless of the impact on the business. I can’t see what more significant content they would have have to cancel next just to fund it.

In the context of a business, a company delivers the products and services for which it has accepted payment or it offers compensation to its paying customers via refund"*" or some other means.

Not only is Anet not providing compensation, but the company couldn’t be bothered to even apologize for the failure to deliver a promised, paid for, feature.

Note that Anet is expending resources greater than an order of magnitude more than the legendary team on a project that is not promised and for which they have not accepted payment. This new project follows an example that, when released to the public, provided a relatively minor impact on revenue for the year in which it was released and may not even have recouped the labor costs of developing it. The established ability of the company to sell this sort of project is already in question, the ability of this sort of project to fund itself is already in question, and some portion of the target customer base has been provided with reason to believe that future projects of this sort cannot be counted on to deliver what is promised and that they will not be compensated if the company fails to deliver what is advertised.

Ultimately I want more expansions. I want them to be successful. I want to feel confident about buying them. I want the game to continue to grow in this manner. But, if the company announces that they are willing to accept payment for things that they will choose to not provide, I see that growth and success to be of limited potential.

“*” A refund that is accompanied by punitive action taken against the customer, such as depriving her of other services for which she has paid, is not compensation.

You know, if refunds, full or partial, are out of the question, they could come back and say,

“Dear valued customers,

“We’ve reviewed and renewed our commitment to giving you, the paying customer — the very foundation of our continued existence — what you paid for. We value your patronage, and hope that you will continue to purchase our future exciting projects in good faith, without any lingering fears or doubts as to our ability — or intent — to deliver them in full. To that end, work has recommenced on the remaining legendary weapons. We will complete this endeavor before moving on to future projects.

“Thank you for your patience and support.”

How about that?

Obtena.7952:

OR … you’re just not giving a team of experienced, educated people who have significant interest in making GW2 successful the benefit of the doubt that they just MIGHT have a clue what they are doing!

I have a clue of what they’re doing. They are walking away with my money in their pockets, without delivering fully on what that money was supposed to give me. Their motivations for that are completely irrelevant for me.
Especially if at the same time they are working on the next thing they think they will be able to sell to me without actually delivering it.