Guild Wars 2

AuRiley.5287:

Anymras.5729:

And then we either lose our turret toolbelt skills or our ability to detonate turrets, in exchange for being able to apply boons with them. I think turrets need work, yes, but I don’t think they need to be replaced.

Actually you lose neither. You still maintain the ability to detonate all turrets, and use toolbelt skills associated with the turrets. The difference is, each turret has their own combo field, so doing the detonation combo with the healing turret could apply to all turrets under this proposition. The turrets then have an expansive use making it worth occupying a utility slot for, even if you only use one turret in a utility slot.

However, I do hear that some of you would like to maintain a more offensive side of the turrets. I could possibly do this by adding damage to the turrets’ tool belt abilities. However, the tool kit/overcharge abilities currently provide a large degree of utility, which I believe engineers to be the masters of (or should be the masters of) enemy control and area denial. Turrets could provide an amazing synergy between almost all kits when you think about it. Especially with Deployable Turrets and my new Turret Refinement trait, you can seriously mess a good fight for the enemy with a turret engineer under these changes.

How, precisely? If the toolbelt skills – abort sentence, went back, reread first post. Now I understand part of how this is supposed to work. My bad on that.

I still prefer the way turrets work, instead of turning them into boon dispensers, though they do need improvement. Maybe if there was some sort of low-level incorporation of boons into current turrets (alongside other improvements), I’d like that better, but as it is, I’d just rather my turrets do things directly.

JohnDied.3476:

Anymras.5729:

I happen to like turrets as they are – secondary methods of attack. Replacing all turrets with boon dispensers would leave people like me, who use turrets because they like turrets, going “Well, great, I guess I’m Boony McBoon, the Boon Booner.”

The OP suggestion for turrets includes having them as secondary methods of attacks (look at the overcharges he included). In fact, what the OP suggests would involve the engineers activating our turrets’ attacks, which would finally give us more control over the bloody toasters.

And then we either lose our turret toolbelt skills or our ability to detonate turrets, in exchange for being able to apply boons with them. I think turrets need work, yes, but I don’t think they need to be replaced.

I happen to like turrets as they are – secondary methods of attack. Replacing all turrets with boon dispensers would leave people like me, who use turrets because they like turrets, going “Well, great, I guess I’m Boony McBoon, the Boon Booner.”

If they suck, it’s because they don’t scale well enough, are too fragile, buggy in terms of AI and traits, and immobile with long cooldowns.

It took them until January to fix part of it – the interaction with the Healing Turret toolbelt skill.

I’d like to hope they’ll have it fixed soon. I doubt it, though.

I’ve stopped playing for a while – I’m just tired of the slow rate of fixes, the reluctance to buff, and the developer’s internally-dissonant ‘Class Balance Philosophy.’ Maybe the patch on the 26th will have something to bring me back. Maybe it won’t.

Hell, if they actually fix the issues I have with things, I might make another Engineer and level him entirely off of crafting (using bought gems to do it).

In theory, they monitor this forum, too. They don’t say much, if they’re there.

There’s probably a couple dozen threads about exactly this on the Suggestion board, though, so there’s not much point adding it to it. I know there’s been a few threads about this on this board, for that matter, so it’s not like it’s a new thing for people to want changed.

I think this is a bad idea.

Turrets aren’t useless – just not up-to-par with some of the other things. I, personally, have used all six of the turrets at one time or another, and will continue to do so, especially since it seems like they’re beginning to be allowed to scale properly. With scaling, lowered cooldown, and perhaps rebalancing of the toolbelt skills, Turrets could easily become something far more interesting than they are now.

Tying turrets to kits would bring up another question, besides – how would that work? Would each Kit’s toolbelt skill be replaced with the Turret? Would one of the attacks on said Kit be replaced with the Turret? How would Turret detonation work?

Not everything about the Engineer needs to be tied to Kits, besides. Some people prefer to not use Kits, for one reason or another.

That’s how Warrior rifles work. The Engineer is really more of a Shotgunner, they just didn’t make a Shotgun type of weapon.

I feel it’s worth noting that every single turret placed was detonated in order to bring the Thief down, and the overall strategy sounds akin to basically running and leaving mines around.

Not sure why the Thief didn’t just Shadowstep in or use one of the various Stealth-causing skills to throw you for a loop, either.

There’s the TANKCAT build, though I’m not sure how well it works. People seem to like it.

You could also use turrets (with the toolkit used to repair them), though the quality of any turret build is debatable, given the current state of turrets, and the toolkit doesn’t really do a whole lot for them to begin with.

This could maybe be interesting. It’d probably fall into RNG, though, or have a ridiculous cooldown.

Could also be interesting for the Toolkit to have a passive improvement effect on Turrets, or something.

So we’re a profession designed to bunker? That’s silly, in a game like GW2. Too much movement – there’s a reason one of the primary complaints about turrets has been about their immobility.

…be better if you could spell your self-quotes properly. Just, like, copy-paste that kitten or something.

Anyway: I’m honestly fairly baffled as to what the idea of this is supposed to be. “Stand still and don’t move” seems to be the cornerstone of the build, Scope’s probably in it somewhere (you decided to just leave that whole segment nebulous because “but one the real Engineers players to go see,” so I can’t be certain)…

And you decide to title the thread “How the DEV’S design Engineeer?”

I don’t see how this half kitten “I’m going to tell you a build, but I’m not really going to tell it to you, because if you’re a real Engineer player, you’ll know what I’m talking about” has anything to do with how the developers designed the class to begin with (as the title suggests – I actually only clicked this thread the first time to see if there was at least an interesting comment involved, but stayed for the crazy). I’m also unclear on what, exactly, is supposed to be going on in the build itself. There’s a reason people explain their ideas beyond “The idea is to stand still and not move.”

If they gave Grenades autoattack, they’d have to choose either to make them the only autoattacking ground-targeted AoE skill in the game (it’s already, as far as I know, the only no-cooldown ground-targeted AoE skill) or whether to make them lock on.

As Grenades suffer from a bit of flight time, and they’d probably leave the AoE circle thing in for some strange reason (these’re the people who took six months to start getting fixes for Deployable Turrets out, and nerfed Grenade Kit because they finally got something they’d been working on from release working, so I don’t doubt that they’d have some kittenamamie explanation for why), the auto-lock would be a bad move.

The alternative is to have them be a ground-targeted autoattacking skill. Without involving a Targeting phase of attack as it does now, where you have to aim the things (and leaving it in removes the autoattack, so it pretty much has to go), they’d have to take special measures to make the grenade-throwing stop, or else everyone with the kit would be forever hurling handfuls of boomdongles.

Pretty sure he did.

There are some Runes that can increase condition duration; it’s possible he’s got a maximized version.

Also, are you certain it was the 2 skill, or could it perhaps have been a Net Turret net?

As for the knockdown…don’t think that works that way. Same with stun on Static Shot from Pistol 3 and Shield 5, as far as I know, it’s fixed to a set length, no matter what is done.

Kits seem to take the power of the highest-powered pistols of a given level, which explains why they have a visibly lower attack power than Rifles. Still stupid, of course.

It’s mentioned explicitly in the Class Balance Philosophy note attached to one of the December patches, I think, if you’d like a better look at it.

I’d like the Hammer to maybe function as a terrain control weapon – set up quick palisades, and so forth.

I got Staff Master while using turrets to farm.

Or they could actually make all abilities solid and come up with a way to balance it regardless.

If I wanted to play an Elementalist, I would. In fact, I have one made for just such an occasion. If I want to play my Engineer, I play my Engineer.
I might not particularly like Kits, or think the current interpretation of the Toolbelt is what it should be, but I’m of the opinion that turning Kits into Toolbelt skills would be a bad idea, mostly as it would involve removing the Toolbelt entirely. With some builds revolving around it, some Toolbelt skills actually being worth using, and the aforementioned similarities to the Elementalist, I just don’t think this would be a good idea.

My thoughts on how to handle Kits and the Toolbelt: Give Engineers a secondary weapon slot, which can only have a kit put into it (while also leaving Kits as Utility skills), at level 7. (Perhaps grant an Engineer’s Kit as a placeholder/freebie, with a special example or two each of Gadget, Turret and Elixir skills, balanced along the lines of the other Kits.)
Unlink Toolbelt skills from Utility skills, allowing the Engineer to arrange whichever set of skills they felt optimal (with them still being overridden by Turret Detonation skills when turrets are deployed).

Suddenly, every Engineer (after level 7) will have a Kit, and the Toolbelt becomes interesting. No idea if these are particularly good ideas, but they’re at least not going to remove chunks of the class.

The ‘Grenade’ attack is Attack 1 of the Grenade Kit.

Look for 100nades or something. It’s one of the builds that maintains popularity most consistently, it seems like, due to its glass cannon nature (and being one of the only ways an Engineer can match the sheer amount of damage some other classes can do).

Engineers use Medium armor, so any Exotic Medium headgear is what Engineers can wear.

If you’re asking after goggles or something, welp, think you’re pretty much SOL.

I’ve used all the Turrets at one time or another. At present, I’m using a Healing/Rocket/Rifle/Flame loadout, because I like Turrets despite their weakness – and, of course, as of the 1/28 patch, they’re all turrets that scale with the user in ways that the others can’t (except for Net Turret, which only benefits from Condition Duration).

When/if all turrets begin scaling with stats, I may switch to Healing/Rocket/Rifle/Net or something. I’ll figure it out if it happens.

Foosnark.1784:

Malvado.1460:

lets focus on fixing their bugs 1st

Wow, who knew the UI artist moonlights as a gameplay programmer? No wonder…

Besides which, they also decided to take the time to make a different drop appearance for certain classes of loot.

rivx.3267:

NickDollahZ.5348:

So we got a few of these bugs addressed the last patch. Im still hoping for scope to be fixed.

Yeah, though the turret toss only seems to work on a couple turrets. It’s nice to see they are at least working on the bugs even if it takes a while.

It’s got Healing Turret’s toolbelt working now, at the very least. Took ’em long enough to even make that change.

It’s a video game. Using something more difficult because you find it more interesting is no more or less stupid than using something easier because you prefer it.

In the end, it all comes down to taste, in this particular case.

As somebody who’s used Turrets of all types from the time he could first equip them to now (with a couple brief forays into Kits, or Elixirs, and one, even, into Gadgets), I have to disagree with the idea that it’s stupid to use Turrets.

It might be difficult, but it’s not stupid. It requires a somewhat counterintuitively aggressive action plan (I often use my turrets fully intending to Detonate them a moment later, for whatever reason – to get Healing Turret’s AoE heal combo, deal more quick damage to an evasive enemy I’ve finally gotten an opportunity to Turret, or to knock an enemy around, for example; my Healing Turret is less a healing mechanism than it is a big hand grenade full of healing elixir, sometimes), disregard for cooldown lengths, and the willingness to grab aggro like a fat kid with a $100 bill in a nickel-and-dime candy shop.

Used properly, a full Turret setup can be used to fight, and defeat, several enemies at a time, that Champion Golem in Malchor’s Leap, Veteran Karkas…you get the idea.

Now, no, they’re not up to par with many of the other skills of the Engineer class. They don’t scale well (they only scaled off of traits, until recently; they now benefit from some of our stats), they don’t stand up well to being targeted (even with Metal-Plated Turrets, most AoE attacks from high-end enemies will obliterate them), they don’t benefit from most of our traits (only ones that specifically mention Turrets will function with them, and one of those still isn’t fixed in PvE, though the recent patch also reduced how nonfunctional it was), and probably not Runes, Sigils, or a variety of other things, but…you can still make them work, if you’ve the wit and will to attain the skill.

Don’t expect it to be easy – I went to using Kits for a time, as I mention above, and they felt easy in comparison – but if you want to use them, use them. Don’t rely on them for area denial, use them with the knowledge that you’ll often end up relying on your toolbelt skills to defend yourself, and be stubborn.

P/S doesn’t actually suck unless the only thing you’re looking at is amount of damage. If it did, I wouldn’t be able to solo some of the things I do, thanks to the defensive options (and their offensive/retaliatory applications).

I certainly wouldn’t be able to win some of the fights I do if I were using P/P or a Rifle.

I’ve been running a full Turret build, with almost all the traits pertaining to Turrets (Hair Trigger and Reinforced Shield are my only non-Turret traits). It’s been working pretty well for me.

Looking at the Item Nomenclature page on the wiki (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleric%27s#Triple_attribute), it looks like the answer to this one’s a ‘yeah, if you craft it.’

Because we’re all supposed to use Kits. Or something. Well, that’s the ‘kitten the devs’ response.

In reality, it’s probably just due to the Engineer being the last class they worked on, as well as one without a parallel in GW1. As a result of this combination of factors, they likely had trouble fleshing the class out in some ways. They may have had difficulty coming up with a particular set of hammer skills for the Engineer, or they may have just never really considered the idea at all, or any of a dozen things.

I just hope they reconsider, and give us hammers at some point soon.

…And maybe a second weapon slot to put it in.

…this would leave us with Kits as our only method of combat that possessed an attack that wasn’t often on a cooldown. Also, we’d need a default Kit for levels 1-5. Wouldn’t be entirely averse to a sort of Frankenkit that would let us mix and match our weapon skills to a certain extent, except for the potential for overpoweredness. (Edit: In fact, I kind of like the idea of a mix-and-match weapon for Engineers, though I’m not sure how it would be executed, beyond restricting choices of effects to ‘has to be on the same number.’)

I’m not sure if I like it (because it would actually give me a reason to carry Kits, while letting me use the rest of my turrets,) or dislike it (because what, no regular weapons, so no point crafting Exotics, no weapon stats, etcetera). All in all, I’d put this suggestion as…interesting. Bizarre, yes, but interesting nonetheless.

nakoda.4213:

Anymras.5729:

nakoda.4213:

This one’s chopped out due to message length restrictions.

And here’re the problems with the Engineer being built around Kits:

1. It makes us too similar to the Elementalist, except we have to use Utility slots for our Kits.
2. They’re freakin’ Utility skills, so it’s entirely possible to just never use them, in favor of using Elixirs, Gadgets, or Turrets.
3. We’re penalized, at least in our ability to deal damage, based on the ‘versatility’ a specific set of our Utility skills offers us (despite, of course, the “King of Versatility” not having this penalty, besides the whole optional nature of Kits).

In my opinion, if a class is built around something, it should have no way to not have that available for use at all times (except when it’s on cooldown, or something similar). Building a class around something that is completely and totally optional for said class is ridiculous.

That said, I get the feeling that they did build the class around Kits, probably in the same style as the Elementalist’s Attunements, but then realized that they were basically making a tech-based Elementalist and threw together the Toolbelt instead. Must’ve gotten pretty close to release time, too.

So, from a purely surface level argument, how does putting our kits (utilities) in utility slots hinder us? Ele attunements are similar yes, but a different beast, reminds me of the guy who was upset that thieves have more bleeds then engies. Well ya…

I’m at work, and struggling to find the words to explain more clearly, so I will reply when I get home again, but the brief answer is that kits give us up to 20 utilities on top of a weapon, by swapping out n1 through n5, while ele have up to 20 attacks with only 3utilities. Apples to oranges, engies have “more” available utility skills at any given time…swappable with no cool downs…while Ele’s have major offence on 10sec(shorter with traits, sure) cool downs.

The differences are subtle but create vastly different styles and capabilities.

I personally cannot see a vision of engies being front line offensive beasts like eles. and that is what eles are for. Sorcerer boom sticks.

…well, since apparently it’s not self-evident, by using a Utility slot for our Kits, we can’t use that slot for our other skills. If Engineers using nothing but kits was the intent of the designers (or so I’d guess from their citing our versatility as the reason for reducing our weapon damage in the Class Balance Philosophy, our lack of non-kit weapon choices, and our lack of weapon switching that doesn’t involve kits), why did they bother making the rest of the Engineer’s skills?

I suppose I should also have explained that ‘in the same style as the Elementalist’s Attunements’ meant ‘on keys F1-FX,’ which might also explain my comment about the Toolbelt for anyone who happened to be confused.

As for comparing Elementalist to Engineers: I was only even mentioning the Elementalist because, honestly, the Attunement mechanic and Kits seem very similar to me, except one is available to every example of a given profession, without fail, while the other is only available if the person using it doesn’t have anything else they’d rather have on their skill bar. One gets their damage reduced (by the developers’ own admission, due to the versatility afforded by this mechanic) and the other does not – and that’s not, strangely enough, going to be followed by a ‘respectively.’

I wasn’t intending to turn it into an Engineers Vs Elementalists debate, but rather to point out that if the Engineer was designed around Kits, then it would have to be similar to the way that Elementalist are designed around Attunements – but that, somehow, the Engineer had to spend Utility slots that could be used for other skills and had their damage reduced, which, to me, shows that they may have initially been designed in such a way…and that the developers hadn’t thought out making the kits into Utility skills instead enough to realize the various things they’d done to compensate for giving the class the things to begin with could or should be undone, whether they should have been done in the first place.

nakoda.4213:

here is my problem with the problem you all have with the kits,

the engineer is designed around the kits. the whole class revoles around the kits. the kits, in essense are a form of stance dancing. you dance between the kits that fit your groove, and supplement with your weapons and your devices.

i have total confidence in my surmising that the devs behind the engies said that weapons were the fallback tools when gimickery and technical wizardy failed at last.

that said, they made using weapons primary to several builds to allow a large field of veraatility beneath the profession so more people may enjoy it.

in a way, they may have spread the butter a little thin in some areas, but in others there is a nice thick dab of creamy dairy melting into the fresh toast that is the engineer.

every class has issues of some kind. go read their forums. even eles and warriors find things to mewl about. but at the end of the day the class is playable, there are many options, lots of fun to be had, and a rich and deep playstyle to master.

games used to be about beating the game and being better than the game, not crying for patches when the game beats you. im certain they still are.

if somethimg is really and fairlu busted, it’ll get fixed.

this thread is about discussing the rich playstyle and offering feedback, positive ad critical. opinions will differ. get over it.

soz for the typos, im on a kitty touchscreen.

And here’re the problems with the Engineer being built around Kits:

1. It makes us too similar to the Elementalist, except we have to use Utility slots for our Kits.
2. They’re freakin’ Utility skills, so it’s entirely possible to just never use them, in favor of using Elixirs, Gadgets, or Turrets.
3. We’re penalized, at least in our ability to deal damage, based on the ‘versatility’ a specific set of our Utility skills offers us (despite, of course, the “King of Versatility” not having this penalty, besides the whole optional nature of Kits).

In my opinion, if a class is built around something, it should have no way to not have that available for use at all times (except when it’s on cooldown, or something similar). Building a class around something that is completely and totally optional for said class is ridiculous.

That said, I get the feeling that they did build the class around Kits, probably in the same style as the Elementalist’s Attunements, but then realized that they were basically making a tech-based Elementalist and threw together the Toolbelt instead. Must’ve gotten pretty close to release time, too.

coglin.1496:

Anymras.5729:

I think you misunderstand the point. The point is, if something, or somebody, puts up a Reflect/Absorb/Destroy Projectiles bubble/field/etcetera, we have no non-Utility way to continue to deal damage to them like every other class can, due to having no dedicated melee weapon.

Static shot does not function as a projectile. It hits them

Blunderbuss is not projectile damage, it hits them.

Overcharge shot is not projectile damage, it hits them.

Jump shot is not projectile damage, it hits them.

Blow torch is not projectile damage, it hits them. (Pistol #4)

Magnetic inversion.

Throw shield.

Both of which will interrupt and stop whatever skill they are using to absorb, reflect, or what ever skill to stop projectiles.

Are you sure you actually play an engineer?

Static Shot definitely functions as a projectile, unless there’s some kind of bug that’s causing it to zoom back and hit me in the face instead.

As I said, however, in the second part of that post – you know, the part you didn’t quote? – even the attacks we have that don’t count as projectiles have cooldowns, preventing us from being able to actually continue attacking after, at most, three hits. Also, funny story – I actually mentioned the three Rifle skills as examples of attacks that might possibly, by some oversight, not count as projectile attacks, and essentially said everything I’ve said in this paragraph in the second half of my previous post.

You know what, I’m just going to start ignoring you. You obviously don’t finish reading posts before trying to reply to them, which puts something of a damper on any possibility of you saying something intelligent or insightful, in my opinion.

Edit: As you edited the post I was responding to, I’m going to reply to the edit, and then ignore you. I’m just going to sloppy-quote this bit.

“Their is no combination of weapons we have that does not accomplish what you are claiming we cannot do with are weapons.

Anymras.5729:

Any weapon skill we have that might possibly not count as a projectile (some of the Rifle’s skills, perhaps Blowtorch on P/P) also has a cooldown, leaving us incapable of continuing to deal damage after an initial rush of, at most, three attacks (Jump Shot, Blunderbuss, Overcharge, if the second two somehow don’t count as projectiles).

“Talk about a crock of hooey. Name me one skill another profession has that dos the function your referring to that is not on a similar cool down as ours are? Name me one skill on any professions that is not a utility such as our kits are that can do what your suggesting.”

I’m going to go with “Any of their melee weapons. Any weapon they have with a melee auto-attack.”

And now I’m done.

coglin.1496:

Thats not true at all. With my shield I can reflect or block attacks myself, while stuning any attack one me. You do realize if they attack me with a hammer, shield skill #5 stuns them right? and I can do an AoE knock back with shield skill #4.

With those two skills, there is literally nothing I cannot counter in this game.

I think you misunderstand the point. The point is, if something, or somebody, puts up a Reflect/Absorb/Destroy Projectiles bubble/field/etcetera, we have no non-Utility way to continue to deal damage to them like every other class can, due to having no dedicated melee weapon.

Any weapon skill we have that might possibly not count as a projectile (some of the Rifle’s skills, perhaps Blowtorch on P/P) also has a cooldown, leaving us incapable of continuing to deal damage after an initial rush of, at most, three attacks (Jump Shot, Blunderbuss, Overcharge, if the second two somehow don’t count as projectiles).

@JohnDied: I wouldn’t.

coglin.1496:

Anymras.5729:

We could also use an option for fighting enemies with Reflects or Absorbs Projectiles that doesn’t involve the use of a kit. As it is, we’re the only class that doesn’t have an option in that regard without using a Utility slot just to get around it. (c’mooon, hammer)

Are you saying we do not have the option to reflect or absorb projectiles?

Or are you saying we do not have a counter for that?

Saying we don’t have a non-Utility counter for it. Every other class can equip a melee weapon, or has attacks that just don’t count as projectiles, while we have to use a Utility slot for the same effect.

We could also use an option for fighting enemies with Reflects or Absorbs Projectiles that doesn’t involve the use of a kit. As it is, we’re the only class that doesn’t have an option in that regard without using a Utility slot just to get around it. (c’mooon, hammer)

plasmacutter.2709:

Anymras.5729:

Then, subtracting that, you should already have a possible 10-13 stacks of Might in your build. Might need to invest in some Might-extension runes or something if you’re having trouble stacking.

How?

I’ve tried toying around in the mysts and the best I could do was a max of 16 (with an average of 6). Maybe i’m missing something?

With HGH, you’re getting: three from Elixir B, two from Elixir H, two from whatever your other elixir is. I don’t know if HGH gives one stack or two on thrown elixirs, but it’ll give you a total of 10-13 without using the Flamethrower. With sufficient Boon/Might duration increases, you’ll be able to get it stacked higher easier.

Then, subtracting that, you should already have a possible 10-13 stacks of Might in your build. Might need to invest in some Might-extension runes or something if you’re having trouble stacking.

I think the most common might-stack builds are the ones that use Juggernaut to build Might and Elixirs to take it from there. In theory, you could get six stacks from Juggernaut, three from Elixir B, two from Elixir H, two from whatever your other elixir is, I don’t know if HGH triggers one or two on thrown elixirs, and that’s all I can come up with.

Theoretical total is between 16 and 19, I think.

Durzlla.6295:

Manticore Five.9867:

Oh, so they stay all bunched up in a group as a slow, slow, SLOW knockdown rocket shuffles over to their spot, and not one thinks to dodge it?

Or are you referring to all 3 simultaneously walking into the thumper’s radius without even considering killing it from outside its range?

Either way, we’re talking industrial-strength stupid opponents here.

I’m talking about the trait where when your turrets die they explode and whenever your turret explodes it LAUNCHES ALL NEARBY FOES, you know, something that no one I’ve seen dodge kittening ever, even in paids.

Seeing as how you, an engi, don’t even know about it I’m not surprised no ones dodged it yet, it REALLY makes turrets a lot stronger because, you know, people stop killing them because all it does is get them mauled especially in team fights.

…or equip ranged weapons to destroy them from far enough away to be safe.

It’s hilarious to see enemies with those big whirling attacks that zoom across the ground run into a Healing Turret, especially, and get knocked back, though.

Sounds like a matter of opinion to me.

Flame, Rifle, Net, and Rocket Turrets all are affected by the change, as they all inflict Conditions.

Yeah, this is…no. If you make turrets take twenty seconds to set up, you’ll only ever see them possibly used in a handful of situations.

As somebody who actually uses turrets, regardless of their issues, this would leave me with absolutely nothing I could do unless I saw something coming from a mile away (barring a respec, of course, into the developer’s darling kits). You might think you’d use them afterward, but twenty seconds of doing nothing but setting up a turret is going to make them frustratingly unusable, and doubly so for people who might actually be using them.

Thenoob.1480:

Durzlla.6295:

Thenoob.1480:

How about:
Remove detonate turret from the toolbelt when the turret is placed, change it to the overcharge.
The turret button itself stays where it is, and the cooldown is started when you place it, not when it dies, you may not have more than 1 of the same turret if you activate again, the old one just despawns or detonates.
And interacting with the turret detonates it instead of just puts it away.

But what if i want to detonate my turret to launch all the enemies off of my capture point, grant AoE stealth, AoE healing, or another blast finisher effect i can’t cause by my own design?

I personally haven’t had issues with turrets at all, but then again i’ve been mostly using them in PvP and world events and have yet to bring them into a dungeon…

Alternatively leave the buttons as they are and just have the cooldown set off when placed not detonated you just can’t place a new one until you detonate the old, but I’m guessing everyone else will scream foul for some reason.
I use the traited turrets myself in pvp quite fun to blast people around.
As they are now they are practically worthless in pve and wvw, you have little mobility because of the terrible way the cooldown works now.

…I’m not going to scream foul about that idea. It’s actually not a bad one, in my opinion.

I love the community spirit here.

I kinda want to see the Engineer guild try it, and take a video of themselves harassing things.

If you think the turrets themselves are bad about cooldowns (and ho, boy are they), take a gander at their toolbelt skills. What’s that? a shockwave of mediocre damage? And it’s a blast finisher? 90 seconds.

Only one of those that even really makes any sense is the Surprise Shot, and that’s a weak additional attack every ten seconds.

As for why people might think they suck:

They’re fragile, immobile, and on long cooldowns. Until recently, they didn’t scale to any player stats that were gained from gear – the only difference between a naked Turret Engineer and a clothed Turret Engineer was their opinion of the weather.