I’d like it if they figured out some way to make Elixir effects context-sensitive, but that might just be me. Not sure how they’d handle it with some of them.
I’m not sure whether I’d consider playing without kits to be ‘simpler.’ Easier to remember cooldowns, but it’s not like a lot of kits have overlong cooldowns to begin with, so as long as you remember what kit has what abilities, combo fields, etcetera, then you probably won’t have a hard time learning them.
Personally, I find it more challenging to not use kits (Flamethrower and Grenade, especially, make things feel easy-mode) at all, and tend to use turrets and pistols instead. I’ve tried Flamethrower/Elixir Gun, I’ve tried Toolkit/Turrets, I’ve tried Grenade Kit/Bomb Kit, and I just don’t get the same challenge from using those (“Is my cooldown done yet? Yes? Great!”) as I do from going Pistol/Turret (“Okay, turrets are out, let’s hit this overcharge-kitten, turret’s gone. At least the accelerants knocked the enemy into that guardian and my flame turret – let’s overcharge that, while we’re at it. Thumper…no, thumper stays here for now.”). I also just happen to dislike using kits in general, for reasons I’m not even really sure of (but are probably related to my using turrets from level 5 to 80, switching to kits briefly, finding them capable of turning things that would erase my turrets into red smears, and being annoyed about it).
Anyway, back on topic I consider the Engineer’s greatest problem the lack of anywhere for them to really excel. They can’t be the most versatile, as that belongs to the Elementalist – and that’s the only thing they’re really good at, aside from control (which happens to be completely useless on everything you really wish you could use it on), and both are build-reliant.
I’d like for them to make Preparation their strong point, in some way; the Engineer should have a plan, after all.
How is it that I’m changing the post? I’m sure at first the post said fly, but mobile whatever doesn’t matter. They don’t need to be mobile. Say I have a turret build, and I drop my turrets. Once I move on, my turrets stay put. I can then move on with nothing or destroy them get my tool belt utilities back and wait for the cool downs on my turrets to use them again.
If turrets are mobile as you suggest, you will loose your toolbelt utilities, granted they are not all that great for turrets but you loose them none the less. With no cool downs I can use my turrets at one place distroy them when done and drop them down again right away if I need to. The turrets would be able to be replaced at any time at any given moment. Thefefore they do not need to be mobile.
This post kind of makes me question the originality of turrets, as well as the Engineer class as a whole. It sort of seems that turrets are just re-skinned Mesmer illusions made static.
If you look at the various abilities the Engineer gets, most of them can easily be compared, directly and generally unfavorably, to the abilities of other classes. For the two most obvious examples: Thrown Elixir U (three types of random wall effect) and Elixir X (two types of transformation, with a different two underwater (though I think they’ve nixed one of those underwater ones…)) both directly duplicate effects from other classes, except without the reliability. Elixir U, if drank, gives Quickness and a random debuff from another profession.
To be fair, it might actually be difficult to come up with a whole set of unique effects for the Engineer to use. Pretty sure the Engineer was started late in the process, thus its massive list of bugs, seeming neglect, and…dubious balance.
As for the idea of mobile turrets: I love that idea.
As of about ten minutes ago, I have joined the ranks of people going “Why is the Personal Story’s capstone a dungeon?”
I gave it a shot anyway, just to see if maybe it had been set up to be soloable, like the rest of the Personal Story quests. Turns out, hey, it sucks to try to go through alone just as much as any other dungeon, except this one is the kitten end of the Personal Story.
Good job, Anet. There’s yet another person who’s Personal Story is going to sit at Victory or Death, because you just had to make it a dungeon.
But it is an improvement. If they say “Yes, we’re fixing that,” and nothing happens, of course, I don’t know why people wouldn’t think there was something up with that – unless they said “Yes, we’re working on it. Probably won’t be ready for a patch or two, but we are aware of the problem and trying to fix it.” Then it’d make sense.
There’s over-communicating, and then there’s talking at all. They’ve said…three things, seems to be the popular number, on this particular board.
I don’t think anybody’s asking them to let us know every step of every process ever forever, but just “Yo, how about you guys check in once in a while, let us know you actually look at this board at all?”
We had a moderator come in here to lock the “lets talk to ANet thread” so its a good sign of things to come don’t worry.
Wow, that’s a disturbingly clear sign. The thread itself hadn’t even degenerated into name calling.
Said moderator did indicate that they were going to pass along our concerns to the staff, for what it’s worth.
Not much, in my opinion, but still.
I’m not talking about specific tasks, like bunkering an area – it’s more the general things. For example:
Warrior has damage and durability.
Guardian has boons.
Necromancer has conditions.
Thief has stealth and burst damage.
Elementalist has versatility.
Mesmer has illusions.
Every profession, going by the Class Balance Philosophy, has a unique niche of its own – the thing just above this is an attempt to summarize (probably poorly, in some cases) the niche.
Engineer has less versatility than Elementalist and reduced damage because of the largely kit-dependent versatility. They’re not as good at another class at the main thing they’re slated to be good at – because the other class is the designated ‘king of versatility’. I wouldn’t have an issue with it if the two were at least equal, but they just aren’t.
I actually wouldn’t be opposed to getting rid of the toolbelt, if this idea were to be used – most of the abilities from it are lackluster, with the exceptions of Elixir R, Rifle Turret, and most of the Kits. That’d bring us back down to one unique mechanic, and it wouldn’t be a compensation for the faux-attunement kits.
Of course, I also wouldn’t mind if they just took a good hard look at what they currently have, how well it does and does not function, and how useful it is and is not, before trying to change it. If they took the hybrid tax off, reworked toolbelt skills (including making them independent of Utility slots, in particular), let turrets scale with gear, kits with weapon strength, made Elixirs something that could truly be relied on to aid the group (and reworked the ones that just duplicate the abilities of other professions entirely – Elixir U, Elixir X, for example), and fixed the bugs, that’d maybe improve things.
It’d also improve things if they’d pick somewhere for the Engineer to be the best, of course – which was the point of this.
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I don’t typically use Elixir R unless I’m in one of those big group events, or a dungeon (if I don’t have some other skill I’d rather make use of to prevent need for Elixir R). I’m just not an Elixir kind of guy.
Hm. Come to think of it, while this is all well and good (and I’d consider it all valid points), this is turning into yet another “Engineer sucks/does not suck” thread.
Let’s not go further down that road. We have enough of those.
Instead: Anybody have any suggestions for further modification of the Upgrade Path idea? Ideas for Upgrades?
Aaand that’s the intent of how the Upgrade traits are supposed to be – specific upgrades to specific things. Dropped the point from the first post, because I was having issues putting it in a concise manner.
Yeah, that’d be pretty interesting. Part of the idea. I haven’t tried to come up with any kind of writeup for what kind of traits there are mainly because I have no idea what to do about them – what would be unbalanced, what would not, etcetera.
Here’s my dream patch note for January:
Engineer:
[Insert a list of all bugs affecting Engineer, and a notice that they have been corrected.]
I’ll be honest, I got lost halfway through the OP post. I do think Engineer needs to be revamped though.
And this is the post that spurred me to pare down the original post.
Oh, and Edit: Yeah, the original post has been rewritten. Smaller. Concentrated magnificence.
First: Turret traits aren’t that impressive. There’s a reason I consider the most useful turret trait to be the one that makes them explode when they’re destroyed.
Breakdown:
30% damage reduction seems like a lot, but they don’t have much health or armor from anywhere but this trait, often being destroyed in one or two hits from anything that you might actually need the help of your utility skills to fight.
Regenerating Turrets sounds great, too, but they only heal once every ten seconds, and are immobile to begin with – combined with their innate, even if traited, fragility, and the mobile nature of much of the game, Autotool Installation is just about useless.
Rifled Turret Barrels adds a little damage – but it’s not much (from 385 to 443 versus a Practice Dummy in Fort Marriner). Its effect on the range is similarly lackluster, especially with the Mortar.
Let’s not even talk about PvE Deployable Turrets.
tl;dr: Turret traits kinda suck – and this is coming from somebody currently running a P/P full turret build.
I’m a proponent of making turrets scale with gear, as they already scale with traits – even if that means nerfing the base stats to keep it balanced.
Second: Almost all of those boons, especially the ones applied to allies, are chosen at random. Compare to Elementalist, who can lay down, and repeatedly activate with minimal difficulty, a combo field of several types – reliably. Yes, we can achieve various odd sets of effects, but so far, I’ve yet to come across a combination that really explains the general lack of improvement (bugfixing, balancing, or otherwise) the Engineer class has received.
It’ll still tick 5 if it’s detonated, as far as I’ve seen. I pretty much always explode mine immediately, using them to clear myself some room, and never see more than 5.
The communication we want is fairly simple, either:
a) Most of our engineer players are wrong. Engineer is just how we (A-net) want it. Give up, reroll, leave game.
or
b) We realise our vision is disconnected from our engineer playerbase. We’re finally going to fix some bugs. We’re going to completely reconsider our class justification statement with regards to engineer. You don’t need to reroll or leave game, we’re listening now.
In addition all classes would be pleased to hear that for the new year, being able to enjoy your class is now an equal priority as new pve grinds, so A net will add 8 new staff one for each class bringing the balance team from two people upto ten the bare minimum such an integral area deserves.
I’m not even looking for this much – it’d be good to know that, at least, the devs do look at this forum, is all. See, as far as we can tell, they only look in once in a great while, going by their posts. They don’t seem interested in even so much as clearing up misunderstandings about modifications to function.
It would also be nice to have a response to the questions raised by the ‘class balance philosophy’ of the December 14th patch.
Yeah, see, I know that. And it makes sense, except for the part where Anet won’t do anything. That part will always baffle me, especially as I watch patch after patch go by with none of the bugs of the class being addressed.
Until 1) the bugs get addressed, and 2) the class is given somewhere to shine – somewhere to not be second-place (especially not kitten versatility, of all things, especially at the build-limiting cost of utility slots, if that versatility is to actually be achieved in the way they obviously mean for it to (kits)) – the class will not be finished, at least in my opinion.
Using dual pistols and a full turret loadout (Healing/Rifle/Flame/Thumper), I tag things I didn’t even know existed. They don’t generally like it, but them’s the breaks.
Also: Using the Rifle Turret, Rocket Turret and Flame Turret (the offensive turrets with the most range), an Engineer could, if the placement of the turrets was sufficiently difficult to reach (a cliff, for example, or particularly tall rock reached by leaping) to dissuade assailants, while still retaining the ability to fire upon enemies, theoretically contribute to a great big four events at a time, though they’d have to rely on their Elite skill to keep them alive while running around to collect.
Turrets do scale with traits; if you’re traited for Healing, then you’ll heal more while it’s down. They do not, however, scale with gear-given bonuses.
Just another thing I hope they adjust.
Elementalists are even more versatile than the Engineer, and are capable of some nasty things if used properly. While they are undeniably squishy, what they can do is affected heavily by the player’s skill, speed, and their loadout – with a Scepter/Focus Elementalist, I can get twelve stacks of Might in eight seconds or less, Conjure an axe and be a short-lived horror. I’m pretty sure I’m not even good at the class.
(edited by Anymras.5729)
While at work, I realized an alternate method of handling this particular idea – instead of tying each Node to a part, tie it to an instance of the skill type, organized roughly by tier. By way of explanation, the following:
Nodes 1 and 2: Healing (Healing Turret, Elixir H, Medkit, [theoretical healing gadget]) and Tier 1 (Rifle Turret, Flame Turret, Elixir B, Elixir U, Utility Goggles, Throw Mine, and Grenade Kit)
Nodes 3 and 4: Tier 2 (Net Turret, Thumper Turret, Elixir S, Personal Battering Ram, Rocket Boots, Flamethrower and Bomb Kit, as well as all effects offered by prerequisite Nodes)
Nodes 5 and 6: Tier 3 (Rocket Turret, Elixir R, Elixir C, Slick Shoes, Elixir Gun, and Tool Kit, as well as all effects offered by prerequisite Nodes)
This would somewhat simplify things, I think. Each node would offer modifications of each skill, in a manner similar to the original idea, but parceled out by tier instead of part.
Thoughts?
I find myself wondering if there’s anything planned for the Engineer in the Wintersday end-patch. Anybody have any idea whether there is or not?
I have an idea for you to add to the list, though I’m not sure where it might fit. Seems like a Traits thing.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Give-the-Engineer-somewhere-to-shine
Edit: Got an idea for an alternate method of working this idea; check link for details.
(edited by Anymras.5729)
The toolkit is insufficient to keep turrets standing for long, even with Power Wrench.
Turrets do have some serious issues with survivability, and the long cooldowns of most of them (30, 40, 50 or 60 seconds) don’t help. I find Accelerant-Packed Turrets probably the most useful of the turret skills for a reason – most of the time, I just end up detonating them to gain some distance while the enemy completely ignores them in favor of chasing me. They’re still what I’m most familiar with, so trust me when I say that they can be useful, if you’re willing to work around their issues and make use of every bit of their utility that you can.
As for a build that focuses on explosions being better than Turret Engineer…it depends on your playstyle. I ran an Explosives build for a while, and it was amusing. However, Grenade kit requires a lot of pressing 1, which puts many people off, Bomb kit requires either kiting enemies or being in close quarters with them, and Throw Mine is actually pretty great.
I think they should put a client-side option in, that would let each player decide if they wanted to see people scantily-clad or in less stripperiffic outfits. Would solve issues like this quite handily.
Which skill are you using – the Toolbelt, or the Utility?
If Toolbelt: Check how many trait points you have in Tools. For a CD reduction of 20%, that would be 20 points in Tools.
Edit: As I’m pretty sure you’re referring to Surprise Shot, the Rifle Turret Toolbelt Skill, that makes trait points in the Tools line the only possibility, as Rifle Turret’s Toolbelt attack is not classified at all.
If Utility: That’d be an exploitable bug. And that’s a problem.
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Yeah, I know it’s not likely the ideas will be used, but it’s a lot more likely-seeming than some of the other change ideas going around. I would, truth be told, like the Engineer to be more complicated, myself, without being the speed piano (kit-users)/frenetic tick (everybody else) gameplay it is now.
That’s a good idea. I think I’ll go add that, and if somebody reads it and decides they don’t like it, they can speak up and make a case.
Edit: And there it is, credited, of course.
(edited by Anymras.5729)
I’m of the opinion that the last two trait ideas should be how things work to begin with – turrets are annoying to use due to their general underwhelming effectiveness, and Toolbelt Skills are what we get when the dev team tries to make us spend Utility slots for a gimped Elementalist’s versatility, and then give us back the utility slots as preselected things.
The first two suggestions, though, seem interesting.
Just going to go ahead and post this link as far as my suggestions for Traits go, though: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Give-the-Engineer-somewhere-to-shine
It’s basically a set of Engineer-specific customization traitlines.
(edited by Anymras.5729)
Unfortunately:
A single cooldown is shared by all sigils. While the cooldown is active, no other sigil with a cooldown can have any effect.
Sigils will enter cooldown even if they have no actual effect. For example, a Sigil of Purity will trigger and enter the 10s cooldown even when the wearer has no conditions.
The mainhand sigil triggers before the offhand sigil.
So sayeth the Wiki.
I’m thinking of switching to dual pistols to take advantage of the sigils-on-kits thing by arranging it so that I have Lifesteal and an AoE heal effect available at all times – simultaneously, if using kits, particularly Grenade, Elixir Gun, or Flamethrower (as these have attacks that hit several times). The damage from Blowtorch was also amazing, at least early on with a Condition Damage build. There’s something to be said for everything.
The point isn’t “We need to see a skilled engineer,” but “We need to see how the devs think this class should be played.”
You know, what with their general vaguefixing and seeming complete disconnection between the patches and the class. Especially with their much-quoted Class Balance Philosophy.
Not quite true – Elementalist has 20 on their weapon skills alone (25 with Healing, three Utility and one Elite), and if they throw Conjures in there, they can get up to something like 41.
Aside from that minor point of semantics: That could be useful, and give the class a more Engineer-y feel. Could also start opening up the idea of adding more to the UI.
You guys are seriously asking for this while they are all probably not working and with their families for the holidays? You could have more patience than this.
There have been, at last count, two, perhaps three, posts from devs on this Engineer forum.
In the entire time the game has been out.
Every couple patches, a thread pops up asking for more communication, or so it seems – they’re certainly around often enough that they’re generally easily visible, and if they aren’t, somebody makes a new one. Patience has been had.
Also, it’s not like we’re really asking for them to drop everything, roll back in to work and solve all our problems right now, if not sooner, but rather just a general “So, uh, hey, it’d be nice to maybe be able to talk to you guys without hunting you down in-game.”
Seconded. It would be interesting, at least.
Pretty much what the title says – I’m looking to maximize the amount of surviving I do by gearing up. Right now, I’m in primarily Toughness-boosting gear, but I’m considering the possibility that I should throw in some more Vitality boosts.
What would be the optimal combination?
If we’re going to get them to talk to us, we need to start being people they can talk to without worry of getting their heads bitten off. I’m as guilty of this as any on this particular forum, to be honest, but it’s likely that the general air of vitriolic discontent makes them just the tiniest bit nervous.
I hope they do talk to us more, though. That’d go a long way toward cooling down the tempers, I imagine; part of it seems to be that we feel ignored.
I’ve been able to tank a little by being kitted out in Toughness-boosting armor with runes of Vampirism, sticking a Sigil of Blood on my Toughness-boosting gun, traiting into Inventions, and wearing Vitality-boosting jewelry.
If I can muster the will to gather the resources, I intend to switch to a dual pistol build, wielding one weapon with a Sigil of Blood and another with a Sigil of Water, with a kit (probably either Flamethrower, Elixir Gun, or Grenade Kit) to merge the two.
Probably not the best tank method around, but it’s what I do.
Having noted that the likely issue with the Engineer is that the devs don’t know where to take the class, have given it nowhere to shine, and are probably nervous about saying anything in this section of the forums as a result, I got an idea, a while back, about sort of revamp. Not a really drastic one – more an addition than anything. The intention of said addition is to give the Engineer a niche, somewhere to shine, somewhere to be the best – whatever you want to call it. It seems to me that Preparation is probably the best synopsis of the niche in question, and it’s achieved through four new Engineer-specific traitlines, accompanied by another Engineer-specific trait point (that can only be spent on those traitlines).
The general idea of the revamp can be found here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Give-the-Engineer-somewhere-to-shine/
There’s been a rather marked lack of ideas on the things that I couldn’t fill out, or on the feasibility of the idea, etcetera; I figured it might be a good idea to just post a request for feedback. Not sure if this is just going to end up getting removed in a couple days or not, of course, but there you go.
If anyone has a suggestion regarding this idea, I look forward to hearing it.
static discharge glass cannon build is the best burst build ive played out of the 5 geared 80’s i have…imo better then thief/war/mes
using goggles/battering ram/wrench with it
tip: use goggles right after overcharged shot and it breaks the self kb instantly
not even. My engineer is my full exotic power, crit and crit damage character…warrior is not even full glass cannon and he crits with a rifle a LOT harder than engineer with a explosive, firearms, tool build. I am using goggles, battering ram and wrench and I dont hit anywhere NEAR what a rifle, axe, GS warrior does….and my mesmer who is a toughness vit gear and build can do more damage and last a lot longer and brings a lot more utility to the group.
Your warrior might crit harder, but then has almost nothing in the way of defence like an engineer.
Your rifle warrior lines up kill shot, last minute I have the choice of reflecting it back in his/her face, simply blocking it with shield #5, or Tool Kit #4. Warriors catch me off guard, sure they tear me up, but mostly they don’t.
You have 20k+ hp, higher armor and you can swap weapon to greatsword for example and use those amazing mobility skills to run away from pretty much any bad situation. You also have easy access to swiftness.
Engineer has no mobility skills besides boons. Rifle 5th skills could be considered mobility skill if it didn’t locked player in place for 1s.
Engineer does actually have pretty easy access to swiftness and perma-swiftness. All it takes is a Medkit, Elixir B, and/or Speedy Kits, or any of the above in combination, depending on Boon Duration increases. Probably more required than the Warrior’s stuff, but still.
I mostly stick to my weapons, as my usual build does not include kits.
If the Engineer is absolutely supposed to always be keeping some kind of kit slotted, and that’s why they’re treated like they are, then Anet needs to give us a proper, specific slot for one instead of going “Oh, just stick it in your Utility slots, like every other skill you have available. Not like you’ll be cutting yourself off from abilities you might prefer, or anything.”
I do use a ton of turrets, though, as they’re the thing I really liked about the class. Too bad they suck.
P/S bunker hasn’t changed, except that it used to run juggernaut for stability, and now just packs a little more armor and no stability. So it’s much, much worse than before, but still one of the more viable engineer specs.
Oh, it changed alright. Forceful explosions getting nerfed, smoke bomb nerf were pretty hard hits to the bunker build. Between that and several other nerfs Enges went from being arguably the best bunker in the game to dead weight. Do any of the devs know where this class is intended to shine?
Well, according to their Class Balance Philosophy, the Engineer is supposed to be versatile, but deal less damage as a result. Funny story, though – the Elementalist is more versatile, and deals tons of damage (more if you can drop a bunch of Blast Finishers into a Fire Field for three stacks of Might a pop – mine can get up to 12, maybe 15 if I can get faster switching to Water and dropping a Comet on anything that survives the Dragon’s Fang, Phoenix, Magnetic Blast and Arcane Blast preceding). They also mention stuff about boons keeping them and their companions alive, but there’s the minor issue of most Elixirs being random-effect.
So, in theory, the Engineer is supposed to be versatile, but not as versatile as the Elementalist. They’re also supposed to be good at boons, but not as good as the Guardian (for a couple reasons).
tl;dr: Hell no, they have no idea where they want this class to go. Obligatory plug of suggestion regarding making the Engineer good at Preparation via additional traitlines and trait points.
Unfortunately, I don’t think they could make the Engineer more versatile without stepping on Elementalist toes – thus why my solution to the problem is to make the Engineer good at Preparation instead, via additional, unique-to-Engineer traitlines (complete with a secondary set of trait points). I have a thread on the suggestion boards about it.
Other than that, I suppose I like the idea – it’s just unlikely to happen, thanks to the exacerbation of already extant similarities between Engineer and Elementalist. Making them any more similar would make one redundant.
I’d personally suggest against the ‘on kill’ sigils, simply because it’s so easy to lose all the charges in a fit of ill fortune.
Things I might actually suggest, though? Things to keep yourself and your allies alive – especially if you plan on getting into melee often. Runes of Vampirism have been serving me fairly well, after all. I’m also considering switching to P/P and using a Flamethrower to milk as much health out of Sigils of Water and Blood as I can.
As much as I like the idea that playing an Engineer requires more skill than playing other classes, I dislike the reason that it does. The Engineer is ‘slapped with the hybrid tax,’ as many have said, often pointing out a moment later (just like I’m doing here) that the Elementalist is not. In fact, the Elementalist seems to only suffer in that it’s a mage, and thus squishy, as opposed to having its ability to do damage sacrificed.
Not saying the class can’t be good if played right, despite the difficulty involved. My Engineer is my only level 80, and there’s a reason for that. I’d like to think I’m pretty good at it, too, despite running, primarily, with a Turret build.
That being said, say all you like about the Engineer being excellent at control (it’s true), being penalized for, according to Anet’s own ‘class balance philosophy’, being second-fiddle in versatility is unfair. And if they decide to change their reason to ‘Well, the Engineer has a lot of control?’ That’ll still be unfair, because not everybody in the class is going to use the control. I barely make use of it, myself, aside from trying to keep enemies away in solo PvE by detonating healing turrets like landmines and launching nets like a mad fisherman.
My point is: Anet really needs to rethink what they’re doing with the Engineer, pick somewhere for it to shine, and then run with that. Every other class has somewhere to be the best. We should, too.
I find the Legendaries on the Trading Post kind of hilarious. Somebody calculated just how much 9000 gold would be in gems, with it coming out to something like six thousand dollars.
If somebody wants to drop six grand on a fancy-looking weapon, that’s their business.
If somebody wants to spend months getting the fancy-looking weapon to put on the Trading Post, that is also their business.
Not going to enter the debate about whether it requires skill or not to get a Legendary, but I am going to point out that by going “Don’t let people sell Legendaries on the Trading Post,” you’re essentially saying “Don’t let people use their skills to make money by selling things they don’t want,” if you’re of the opinion that it does require skill to make a Legendary (or so it seems to me).
Yeah, turrets will always look the same. Making them change with the player would’ve required actually thinking about them.
You can make at least a couple gold every day by just collecting and selling crafting materials – lowbie ones, even, though if you know where Orichalcum and Ancient Wood nodes are, you can make some freakin’ bank off that. If you can get lucky enough to fairly reliably produce Ectoplasm from crafted goods, you can make money that way, too.
It’s just going to be a pain in the kitten