Guild Wars 2

Asudementio.8526:

Arkanfel.8403:

Asudementio.8526:

What you said explicitly states you think TC should be scrutinized for its server status going to full in the same that DB is for being a bandwagon destination. How is this anything other than an attempt at derision. It’s fine if it is but don’t play so innocent.

No, what that passage says is that DB is being ripped for increasing their population, and TC isn’t despite being full. DB is not (at least not that I’ve seen) but we’re the ones getting pooped on for some reason.

Pointing out a double standard should not be taken as an insult to the server, it should be taken as a smack on the nose to forum warriors. It just seems a little silly to me to mock DB for its population/turnout increase when it still has less than TC. I mean hell, TC is full right now and it’s 2pm EST on a weekday.

It is a false comparison, TC is the rp server we have a consistent and booming pve population- one that is certainly contributing to our full status. There is a difference between having a full server and actively recruiting guilds to bandwagon up through a tier.

Every server has PvE populations, I don’t really understand what you’re getting at by pointing that out. There’s still only 3 full servers in NA, and 2 of them are in Tier 1.

Also, again, TC has recruited guilds in the past. Recruiting guilds is part of the metagame and it’s valid whether you personally care for it or not. No one in T1 or T2 really has moral high ground on that issue, except possibly JQ.

Aurust.8961:

See my above posts… its how DB is going about it that is rubbing people so hard. They get excited and explode all over the forums.

Well hopefully that will start to die down a little after this week :p

For my part (and I think most of my guild agrees) I don’t really think DB is going to Tier 1 with her current coverage formula. Even if she did, it would probably take the better part of a month anyway. TC is a stronger server than a lot of people in DB have faced yet, and I don’t think that was fully realized after our first match in T2. TC makes a great gatekeeper to Tier 1.

Asudementio.8526:

What you said explicitly states you think TC should be scrutinized for its server status going to full in the same that DB is for being a bandwagon destination. How is this anything other than an attempt at derision. It’s fine if it is but don’t play so innocent.

No, what that passage says is that DB is being ripped for increasing their population, and TC isn’t despite being full. DB is not (at least not that I’ve seen) but we’re the ones getting pooped on for some reason.

Pointing out a double standard should not be taken as an insult to the server, it should be taken as a smack on the nose to forum warriors. It just seems a little silly to me to mock DB for its population/turnout increase when it still has less than TC. I mean hell, TC is full right now and it’s 2pm EST on a weekday.

Asudementio.8526:

EnRohbi.2187:

Asudementio.8526:

Arkanfel.8403:

Aurust.8961:

Arkanfel.8403:

timidobserver.7925:

Aurust.8961:

I think that DB is purposefully lowering their rating because they think they can eat up some easy points on two “fattened pigs” later on when they get whatever guilds they are currently farming for.

Good luck to them.

It doesn’t really matter what they do. Nobody is really going to respect any victory won by bank rolling a bunch of huge guilds over.

What if I told you that guilds are paying for their own transfers? DB isn’t “bankrolling” anything.

Why are you trying to hide this? Please refer to this post from a member of RE… somewhere page 2 or 3.

manbearpig.8095:

Master Farkha.1857:

Jayne.9251:

Scanty.7623:

Calvin.5380:

Repair bills have been astronomical this weekend… I guess we’re experiencing the full might of TC, now that their PVE/college population is back in WvW…

Hope you enjoyed your stay in Tier 2.

Don’t be that guy.

Yeah for real. I think DB is just burnt out from pushing too hard. In any case, great fights so far everyone!

its not that db is burt out most of certain wvw guilds have been farming gold to assist other guilds (coming soon) in getting to db

I’m not “hiding” anything, I’m just pointing out that it’s not like DB just has some giant war chest and we’re bribing all these guilds. What’s happening is people are choosing to come here and some of the WvW guilds already here are helping them out with their transfer fees. If someone considers that dishonorable or cheap I don’t really know what to tell them. I might laugh though.

That being said, I love how DB is still getting all the negative attention despite TC’s observable population increase. They weren’t “full” two weeks ago, but I don’t see people saying they deserve to be disrespected for it.

Tell me what massive recruitment effort has TC undertaken over the past two weeks and how many and what WvW guilds have we gotten here in that time? but i think you’ll find that question hard to answer because you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about

I like how you conveniently include “over the past two weeks” in there.
TC got plenty of transfers, just not as recently as we did.

Also, maybe worth noting couple months ago myself, other officers in my guild, and my guild leader, were all very subtly and privately approached by various representatives of different TC guilds all trying to butter us up and get us to transfer off DB and into TC.
And if my tiny little can-barely-put-more-than-10-people-in-wvw-on-any-night-but-reset guild was getting attention from TC, I would wager we were far from the only ones.

So let’s not pretend TC doesn’t recruit, just like every other server.

If you would actually read the conversation you were replying to the time frame give for Tc going to “full” status was two weeks, thus why i chose two weeks. Nice try.

He still has a point. DB is getting all kinds of crap for recruiting guilds so they can compete in T2. It doesn’t really matter to me what people respect or not, you can’t compete if you don’t have the population.

I didn’t bring up TC being full to deride them, I’m just pointing out that no one has… well, pointed it out. DB is getting pooped on because people are transferring there and I don’t really think that’s fair, and I highly doubt that TC has never ever ever gotten any transfers. I just think it’s silly to look down on another server for that reason. If people want to play on @@server@@, they have every right. They paid their $60 and their transfer fee just like the rest of us. You don’t have to like it, but to come on the forums and make a big deal out of it is just childish.

Now let’s go sit by the fire and sing Kumbaya or something. This pointless angst is making my head hurt.

Aurust.8961:

For the record, i never said that i find what DB is doing dishonorable, nor did I call DB a bandwagon. Just my observations….

Well if you look closely, I wasn’t actually talking to you at first. I was responding to a post that implied DB deserved no respect because the server was “bankrolling” its guilds. That’s not exactly what is going on, no one is actually being paid to come here.

Asudementio.8526:

you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about

Ah, yes, of course TC has been “full” population for weeks and I just didn’t notice.

’k

EDIT: for the record, I’m not trying to hassle TC for this, I’m just pointing out what appears to be a double standard. TC swears up and down that they’re not getting transfers, but to me it doesn’t matter. People are going to play where they want to play and y’all need to stop crying about it.

Aurust.8961:

Arkanfel.8403:

timidobserver.7925:

Aurust.8961:

I think that DB is purposefully lowering their rating because they think they can eat up some easy points on two “fattened pigs” later on when they get whatever guilds they are currently farming for.

Good luck to them.

It doesn’t really matter what they do. Nobody is really going to respect any victory won by bank rolling a bunch of huge guilds over.

What if I told you that guilds are paying for their own transfers? DB isn’t “bankrolling” anything.

Why are you trying to hide this? Please refer to this post from a member of RE… somewhere page 2 or 3.

manbearpig.8095:

Master Farkha.1857:

Jayne.9251:

Scanty.7623:

Calvin.5380:

Repair bills have been astronomical this weekend… I guess we’re experiencing the full might of TC, now that their PVE/college population is back in WvW…

Hope you enjoyed your stay in Tier 2.

Don’t be that guy.

Yeah for real. I think DB is just burnt out from pushing too hard. In any case, great fights so far everyone!

its not that db is burt out most of certain wvw guilds have been farming gold to assist other guilds (coming soon) in getting to db

I’m not “hiding” anything, I’m just pointing out that it’s not like DB just has some giant war chest and we’re bribing all these guilds. What’s happening is people are choosing to come here and some of the WvW guilds already here are helping them out with their transfer fees. If someone considers that dishonorable or cheap I don’t really know what to tell them. I might laugh though.

That being said, I love how DB is still getting all the negative attention despite TC’s observable population increase. They weren’t “full” two weeks ago, but I don’t see people saying they deserve to be disrespected for it.

timidobserver.7925:

Aurust.8961:

I think that DB is purposefully lowering their rating because they think they can eat up some easy points on two “fattened pigs” later on when they get whatever guilds they are currently farming for.

Good luck to them.

It doesn’t really matter what they do. Nobody is really going to respect any victory won by bank rolling a bunch of huge guilds over.

What if I told you that guilds are paying for their own transfers? DB isn’t “bankrolling” anything.

Jayne.9251:

Usagi.4835:

Arkanfel.8403:

Usagi.4835:

Arkanfel.8403:

Arkard.3970:

Someone’s obviously angry that their sense of entitlement to a free bandwagon win has been disrupted twice now by TC and FA.

10/10 would wat again

I never said TC didn’t deserve this week’s win. I never said that DB “should have” won or “deserved” to win. All I did was nominally criticize one aspect of TC’s game. If you can’t take that, it’s not my problem

You did a bit more than “nominally criticise”. You forgot the part where you said that TC wouldn’t have won without FA’s help. Nobody likes a smart-aleck!

Right, so I’m a “smart alec” for doubting it, but it’s perfectly okay for TC to say they would have “still won” without FA’s help.

Got it.

Because it’s true. All FA did was turn up to the party uninvited and cause some trouble by camping your spawn in EB and then taking Jerrifer’s. You know, the whole WvW meta doesn’t revolve around LLK and EB. Or were you not paying attention to TC flipping your borderland red? Get over yourself.

Actually FA turned all of eb blue pretty much the other night. That was pretty impressive. When FA wants something, they usually get it.

Yeah, I saw kitten of that! FA seems to get what they want when they want it… I just don’t think they have the population to do it consistently. Someone did a Game of Thrones breakdown of the servers a few weeks ago. My interpretation is that FA is the North: tactically adept, they win battles. But TC (Lannisters) have the numbers and the gold and their overall strategy is superior. kitten if I know who DB is though, we don’t really have an identity in this tier yet :P

EDIT: what. the. deuce. ANet, please fix this filter. My first sentence is “I saw a screenshot of that,” although “screenshot” is abbreviated. Why this is filtered I cannot begin to comprehend.

Usagi.4835:

All FA did was turn up to the party uninvited and cause some trouble by camping your spawn in EB and then taking Jerrifer’s.

You are almost as adorable as you are delusional.

Usagi.4835:

Arkanfel.8403:

Arkard.3970:

Someone’s obviously angry that their sense of entitlement to a free bandwagon win has been disrupted twice now by TC and FA.

10/10 would wat again

I never said TC didn’t deserve this week’s win. I never said that DB “should have” won or “deserved” to win. All I did was nominally criticize one aspect of TC’s game. If you can’t take that, it’s not my problem

You did a bit more than “nominally criticise”. You forgot the part where you said that TC wouldn’t have won without FA’s help. Nobody likes a smart-aleck!

Right, so I’m a “smart alec” for doubting it, but it’s perfectly okay for TC to say they would have “still won” without FA’s help.

Got it.

Arkard.3970:

Someone’s obviously angry that their sense of entitlement to a free bandwagon win has been disrupted twice now by TC and FA.

10/10 would wat again

I never said TC didn’t deserve this week’s win. I never said that DB “should have” won or “deserved” to win. All I did was nominally criticize one aspect of TC’s game. If you can’t take that, it’s not my problem

Evalana.5480:

Arkanfel.8403:

Hydrii.5136:

Wow make one little joking comment and you guys get very defensive now I really think something is going on.

Getting “defensive” tends to happen when a joke hits a little too close to home ;p

For the record, TC, no, you wouldn’t have “won anyway” without FA’s help. It didn’t escape our notice last night that FA’s zerg was assaulting Lowlands keep in tandem with your zerg and that they were happily ignoring their home BL. They even trebbed down our inner walls for you.

That said, I don’t mind the double team so much. ANet made WvW matchups three-sided for a reason, and right now DB is under the gun, just like we should be.

Durnit – why do I keep missing all these super secret double team strategy meetings?!?!

I didn’t say there was a “double team strategy meeting,” I just said that a double team happened. It doesn’t really matter whether it was “organic” or not, it happened. I was there for like five hours and there were no orange swords to speak of in the northern half of the map until at least 12:30am EST. No TC or FA towers/camps changed hands over that same span, and both servers’ zergs were camped on opposing sides of Lowlands Keep.

What happened was TC broke into north outer Lowlands first. When I logged in around 9 EST they had made it into the lord’s room. They were repelled, but still had enough numbers to stack up on the outer wall and build trebs. That lasted for about 20 minutes. Right around the time we took them out, FA built trebs at Jerri and started hitting our inner while TC rushed right in every time they spawned. Eventually they slowed down, but it was clear after half an hour that both TC and FA were primarily focused on pushing us off EB.

Again, I’m not complaining, I’m just saying that it happened. We probably would have exploited the situation too had we been in either FA or TC’s place and I don’t hold it against either server. You guys played your hand well and won the match. But I’ve had direct and indirect contact with enemy commanders from time to time, it really isn’t that hard to say “don’t attack my kitten and I won’t attack yours;” to suggest that a determined 2v1 requires a ‘double team strategy meeting’ is just silly.

Hydrii.5136:

Wow make one little joking comment and you guys get very defensive now I really think something is going on.

Getting “defensive” tends to happen when a joke hits a little too close to home ;p

For the record, TC, no, you wouldn’t have “won anyway” without FA’s help. It didn’t escape our notice last night that FA’s zerg was assaulting Lowlands keep in tandem with yours and that they were happily ignoring their home BL despite it turning more and more red by the minute. They even trebbed down our inner walls for you.

That said, I don’t mind the double team so much. ANet made WvW matchups three-sided for a reason, and right now DB is under the gun, just like we should be. We’ll either rise to the challenge or die off.

Ruin.3461:

No one in this game has enough control over their “units”, or enough agency over the state of the battlefield and coordination with fellow commanders to enact any deep strategic maneuvers. This is of course assuming they even think about them. If you’re looking for strategy, I’d suggest a different game (maybe Age of Empires II: Forgotten Empires), because you won’t find it here.

I disagree. That kind of control does exist, it’s just extremely difficult and time-consuming to cultivate. The only way you’re going to get it is by being a consistently good commander who plays during the same timeframe each day; if you’re good enough over time people will actually start doing what you tell them to in /m or /t chat. It’s a little less definite than RTS games, to be sure, but that’s half the fun!

Hickeroar.9734:

Arkanfel.8403:

I’m biased of course so take this with a grain of salt, but during the hours I usually play I don’t really feel threatened too much by the TC zerg. You guys play a great PPT game, but your tactical execution is middling. We apparently lost it eventually anyway, but by the time I logged out last night I had gained like three ranks, a few hundred badges, and filled my bags two or three times against TC zergs trying to rush in our home keep on EB. Honestly I think the best tactical guild in the tier is probably BT on Fort Aspenwood, but I don’t really think FA has the coverage to be consistently competitive here. If TC were to turn a corner with her tactical metagame, she could be ridiculously powerful.

I would actually agree with you on the tactical observations, for the most part. Last night in EBG we went up against Agg, and it was a good example of this. We had a zerg made up of 70%+ pugs, and we got wiped consistently. Our two zergs were pretty near identical in size, but tactically it’s very hard to play against a disciplined guild group with intelligent composition when you’re in that scenario. We only ended up actually defeating them once or twice out of about 10+ encounters.

TC has an incredible militia, but we sometimes have to compensate for the fact that we have “militia” by “running” instead of “fighting.” I’ve seen this scenario against BT several times as well.

A few of our guilds are VERY tactically sound, but they run tagless a lot so they don’t get as much attention. KH is an example of this. I would not want to be on the receiving end of their weapons. PiNK is also extremely solid when they’re in a guild group.

Sometimes our commanders have to wield their zergs like a big hammer instead of a sword.

It’s great fun either way though!

Yeah, I forgot about KH. Maybe it’s just the hours I play but I don’t think I’ve actually encountered a KH guild group before, and I remember someone saying they tore us up. PiNK is solid too but what really stands out to me is their turnout. It’s hard for me to say whether they are more powerful pound for pound than guilds like VK or CO.

(inb4 people think I’m flaming PiNK)

And yes, I think that learning how to use pugs is a huge component of being an effective commander. I’ll tell the zerg what I want it to do, but eventually you have to realize that not everyone is going to listen, and you’ll end up with wanderers. The most you can do is try to use them to your advantage. This is great for hammer-and-anvil maneuvers, but not-so-great when it comes to running long distances with sporadic resistance! It’s pretty common for chunks of the zerg to peel off and chase individual opponents or small groups…. >.<

Jayne.9251:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3VCl3yBURs

I’m really not trying to throw rocks at the hornet’s nest or anything. I’m trying my hardest to not belittle or insult anyone, it’s just my honest opinion: I think that TC’s greatest shortcoming is her tactical execution. That doesn’t mean I think they all suck, or that their commanders are scrubs or whatever. I just think it’s the aspect of their game that needs the most work. Some people won’t take that kind of talk well coming from an opponent, but that’s to be expected.

For our part, DB is in a different boat. We need to get our coverage formula figured out and establish symbiotic raid schedules before we can really address tactical concerns. TC has a wonderful WvW foundation already, in their case it is simply a matter of putting what they have to best use.

Arkard.3970:

Arkanfel.8403:

Urrid.4593:

Arkanfel.8403:

I’ve played like nine matches against you guys…

I don’t think TC has played DB nine times even if you count the 1 day matches in September.

Either way, I look forward to bringing more “middling” tactical play to WvW this upcoming week.

<3 T2.

I’ll just wait here patiently for you to realize that I said “I” and not “Dragonbrand.”

I’ll just patiently wait until people realize this talk of “tactics” is coming from someone from a guild that jumped ship from Kaineg and had to publicly apologize for exploiting into TC’s stuff. Now of course it’s just a few bad apples and not the whole barrel, but seriously?

Wait, what?

I say “I’ve played against you guys like nine times, and these are my opinions.”

In response I am greeted with “DB hasn’t played us nine times.”

When I point out that I (personally) have, whether DB has or not, you invoke the fact that my guild transferred off a dying server and that some people (apparently) have exploited.

That seems like a bit of a disconnect. I don’t know anything about tactics because someone in my guild exploited and we transferred servers?

Usagi.4835:

Arkanfel.8403:

I didn’t criticize TC’s strategic play. In fact, I think that’s their strong suit—where I think they’re a bit weaker is tactics.

So if tactics = portal bombs and strategic play = knowing when to use portal bombs, for instance, how could we be lacking in either of those fields? You can’t have one without the other.

What I’m saying is that TC makes solid strategic choices. If we make them choose between two keeps, they usually pick the right one. If we switch maps, they usually have scouts to see us and respond quickly. That kind of thing. I’m not badmouthing their commanders in the least: if you ask me, making those choices correctly is way more important than winning (most) open-field fights.

But when it comes to actual fights, I just don’t feel threatened by TC’s zerg when I’m commanding. The only time I really did was when Kaineng was in freefall and we were outmanned during daytime NA. People can rage and gnash their teeth and make silly assumptions/examples/comparisons all they want, but that’s the truth.

So if you’re TC and you’re reading this, your reaction will probably fall into one of two categories. The first we’ve already seen: “This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about, and I choose to take his commentary as a slight against my server”

OR

“This guy has commanded against us a lot and has a perspective on the battles that we lack.”

I ask that you consider your reaction carefully before expressing it.

Urrid.4593:

Arkanfel.8403:

I’ve played like nine matches against you guys…

I don’t think TC has played DB nine times even if you count the 1 day matches in September.

Either way, I look forward to bringing more “middling” tactical play to WvW this upcoming week.

<3 T2.

I’ll just wait here patiently for you to realize that I said “I” and not “Dragonbrand.”

Urrid.4593:

Arkanfel.8403:

You guys play a great PPT game, but your tactical execution is middling.

You haven’t seen TC operating at “normal” strength since coming to T2. Things should be different this upcoming week.

I’ve played like nine matches against you guys…

Urrid.4593:

So Militia can’t get a guild group out of a fortified keep and that makes for a middling server performance? Uh, okay?

Two things:

First, as per the above quote I am not basing my opinion on TC’s tactical acumen solely on the experiences of last night. It was just the most recent example. I’m not trying to trash talk you guys, I’m just offering my opinion. Every server has their strong points and their weak points.

Secondly, TC wiped close to a dozen times between 9pm and 1am EST. If their “militia” could not secure the keep, they should not have kept trying in the manner they did. So yes, the strategy and possibly the tactics on display last night are fair to criticize, militia or no militia. People were coming in massed and following commander pins, so it’s not like there was NO organization. My point is that TC could have won any one of several of those fights but didn’t. Agg was actually not present for every single keep defense, and they only actually had maybe 30 people there at the height of their raid. The wide majority of DB’s players on EB last night were not in a “guild group.” Many belonged to WvW guilds, but Agg was the only organized guild group and they actually constituted an admittedly effective minority of our force. Agg definitely saved our kitten but to characterize last night as being “milita vs guild group” is a bit suspicious. Militias tend to attack each other, and FA and TC didn’t start fighting each other seriously until after 1am.

For the record, I’m not complaining about the double team (I had a blast), I’m just pointing out that you guys obviously had some organization going on last night. What happened on EB was not organic militia work.

Harrish.8743:

Arkanfel.8403:

I’m biased of course so take this with a grain of salt, but during the hours I usually play I don’t really feel threatened too much by the TC zerg. You guys play a great PPT game, but your tactical execution is middling. . . . If TC were to turn a corner with her tactical metagame, she could be ridiculously powerful.

Unless you play 24/7, 7 days a week, on all 4 maps simultaneously, it’s hard to accurately gauge the level of play on any server. TC has some great commanders/guilds who execute complex strategies without a hitch. It also has zergs that run around like headless chickens. Same with every server.

Sadly for my social life, I do actually come disturbingly close to playing 24/7, and play on all maps regularly. I’ve seen Tarnished Coast’s A-Team in action on a great many occasions, and it’s primarily them who I’m talking about. I can usually tell when we’re fighting a headless zerg, and I didn’t criticize TC’s strategic play. In fact, I think that’s their strong suit—where I think they’re a bit weaker is tactics.

The only real difference I’ve ever seen is that some servers are dominated by guild groups and others have more of a broad-based WvW following. Pros and cons to both. Having played on or against almost every server in the top 4 NA tiers, I’d stack our WvW guilds up against any of them.

Yup. DB is in the process (as near as I can tell) of sort of merging the two. For example, more than a few of my members have been chastised in /map for advertising a public TS—the community seems to feel as if they don’t need it, because they got to Tier 2 without using it. But I suspect that as time goes on more and more people will start to realize—especially during NA prime—that T2 is a different ballgame now. So at the moment our WvW efforts are mainly being quarterbacked by hardcore native WvWers, and the new guys like us and Agg. I think a lot of the native WvW regulars are still sort of doing their own thing. Whether or not that changes (and a unified server strategy develops) will be the main factor that decides whether DB can go to T1 or not, in my view.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Outside from defending a “castle”, there’s really no room for strategy. You can place sieges in strategical locations inside the “castle”, but outside, it’s either a “zerg tactic” or “guerrilla tactic”.

Zerg and Guerrilla are strategies, not tactics.

It’s not like everyone will form a strategic line facing an enemy horde and go at it when the the trumpet sounds. But that would be a nice screenshot if/when it happens.

Again, you’re confusing the two. What you are describing here is a tactical maneuver. Roughly speaking, strategy is your overall plan; tactics is how you maneuver during battles.

Hickeroar.9734:

Score update. I already posted this, but it mysteriously disappeared. shrug

Yeah I actually edited my post because half of it was me pointing out that you don’t need to post score updates anymore because DB cannot win. Congratulations are in order for sure, but at this point posting score updates is like rubbing salt in the wound. By my crash calculations, DB would have to tick close to 550 for the rest of the match to win.

WyldKat.4712:

Arkanfel.8403:

I’m really fond of T2…TC is insanely strong through the week!

We’re insane 24/7. Toooast. Try the Toooast!

I’m biased of course so take this with a grain of salt, but during the hours I usually play I don’t really feel threatened too much by the TC zerg. You guys play a great PPT game, but your tactical execution is middling. We apparently lost it eventually anyway, but by the time I logged out last night I had gained like three ranks, a few hundred badges, and filled my bags two or three times against TC zergs trying to rush in our home keep on EB. Honestly I think the best tactical guild in the tier is probably BT on Fort Aspenwood, but I don’t really think FA has the coverage to be consistently competitive here. If TC were to turn a corner with her tactical metagame, she could be ridiculously powerful.

It’s simple: good commanders have a strategy, bad ones don’t. Any yahoo can say “stack on me, buff up, push in, hook left” etc etc but having and executing an actual map strategy is what makes good commanders.

For example, if I’m in EB and we have SMC usually the first thing I’ll do when I tag up (if the castle is defensible, e.g. it has upgraded walls/doors and I have a healthy zerg) is set up trebs for the enemy’s outer towers. My strategy, then, is to pressure the outer towers and draw “aggro” to the center of the map, while my zerg runs around and harasses both teams somewhere between their spawns and SMC. In this way, I force both teams to react to me in their own thirds—this lets us run supplies to our home towers and SMC.

I’m really fond of T2. I’ve been playing WvW since release and these last couple of months have provided great competition. For months I never saw a match that wasn’t decided in the first three days, but that dynamic has been turned on its ear. TC is insanely strong through the week!

WyldKat.4712:

Arkanfel.8403:

TC has a higher PPT floor…

Aren’t floors supposed to be like under our feet? Like lower than?

I never understood that phrase.

It’s a relative term. “PPT floor” here refers to the lowest average tick each server will see in a week. I’m ballparking TC’s at about 110-125 off the top of my head, DB’s is usually around 75-90 and FA has been pushed close to 0. So TC’s PPT ‘floor’ is a fair bit higher than either of the other two servers right now.; that goes a long way in the scores. It’s not so much about how high you can get your tick for a few hours, its about how LOW the enemy can possibly push you. In TC’s case, this limit is a lot higher in terms of PPT than their competition, and has been for the better part of two months now.

Iconik.8712:

8k deficit made up over night?

TC has a higher PPT floor than either of the other servers here. I’ve been in T2 for a long time now and I have not very often seen them go under 100. I think the lowest tick I saw from them this week was something like 120 or 130.

DB can get insane ticks, but TC always holds on to enough territory to not fall completely out of it, and their response time is generally good. Everyone’s talking about the transfers, but they won’t be our ticket to T1 unless the existing community can adapt to TC’s weekday game.

Jayne.9251:

Arkanfel.8403:

Odinzu.9645:

KEEP PUSHING ON EB FA, OUR FRIENDS!!!!!!!

I haven’t had this much fun in WvW in weeks.

I’m glad. You were pretty bummed there for a while.

Yeah, I really burnt myself out on Kaineng those last few weeks. I’m not generally involved in guild politics so I was tearing my hair out while the server was falling apart. I’v ebeen able to relax a lot more on DB so far

Odinzu.9645:

KEEP PUSHING ON EB FA, OUR FRIENDS!!!!!!!

I haven’t had this much fun in WvW in weeks.

Revenge of Denravi?

VOLKON.1290:

VOLKON.1290:

Sorry Noodles, respect is something earned, not demanded. It’s also as easily lost.

Translation: I don’t respect guilds who elect not to play on my server.

Oh, that’s not true at all. I have a ton of respect for many guilds that we face on a daily, weekly basis from other servers. There are some quality, top rate guilds that are an absolute blast to donate the occasional loot bag to.

Among other things that will earn or lose respect, though, is how people behave or respond to difficult situations. Some actions are worthy of respect, others can quickly cause respect previously earned to be lost. [/quote]
The implication here is that they should have stayed on JQ no matter what, and that’s not fair either. Things aren’t necessarily “difficult” just because JQ didn’t come in first place a couple of times. But I’m not there so I don’t know… I hear there’s some drama going down.

I think it’s silly to automatically disrespect guilds for transferring unless they did you dirty somehow. It’s not easy to transfer a guild, and I assure you the decision is not one to be taken lightly. If the stories are true and JQ really is imploding I don’t expect its natives to be happy about it, but at the same time it doesn’t make sense to take it out on individual people or guilds. Whatever JQ is going through probably isn’t any one guild’s fault.

Peetee.9406:

Getting a bit crowded on the Dragonbrandwagon ain’t it?

Yes, because it would obviously be better for the game if they just went to a lower tier. It’s not like they’d unbalance the matchup or anything.

Christ, what a load. Like people have never “bandwagoned” to SoR. Get over yourself.

VOLKON.1290:

Rawnoodles.1398:

VOLKON.1290:

Someone told me Omen was a mostly PvE guild or something. I don’t recall seeing them much in WvW. Well, good luck with the bandwagon efforts. Apparently DB isn’t ready to compete on their own merits so they pathetically need to leech from JQ more trying to bring us down instead of raising themselves up. Some younger folks I’ve developed a decent amount of respect for have ultimately proven to be a disappointment. It’s too bad.

You are a recruiter for JQ yes? You are aware of all the thing you say, that is extremely bias reflect negativity and may as well inhibit your abilities to recruit? Its competition, the game will change but at the vary least be respectful of the guilds that did put in their time on which ever server and at the very least, give them some grace. Especially for their time they put forth previously.

OMEN came here on their own free will, like our guild. Instead of flaming threads, learn to develop common decency to respect those guilds whatever the decision. Bashing them isn’t doing you any justice my friend.

Sorry Noodles, respect is something earned, not demanded. It’s also as easily lost.

Translation: I don’t respect guilds who elect not to play on my server.

Excalibur.9748:

Is DB falling apart already?

Kinda getting the feeling they’re outmanned right now.

We were ticking +460 twelve hours ago, so no, I don’t think we’re falling apart. TC is still stronger during NA prime on weekdays, I think, but I haven’t really noticed any drop in activity on our end.

Zikory.6871:

Arkanfel.8403:

Few things are quite so savory to me as thief tears.

There’s finally a hard counter to stealth and now they are going to lose their kitten. Oh, your core gameplay mechanic has a counter now? How bad that must feel. I main guardian—my core gameplay mechanic is boons and I have a low health pool. You know what counters my core gameplay? Boon stripping and conditions.

So welcome to the club of the rest of us. We meet in the gym after AA on Wednesdays. Bring donuts and paper plates.

All I’m saying as a thief, Is have fun with that 4s cast to place the trap! This won’t help you with the roaming thieves. This trap is going to be great, Imo its going to weed out more of the thief band wagoners.

Presumably, yeah, anyone who tries to use one after being engaged by a thief will drop faster than Bill Clinton’s drawers on “meet the interns” night. But they’ll still be useful for ambushes and the like. I can see havoc teams having a lot of fun with them, and it might even help counter the ridiculous phenomenon of gate-tapping.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Now if ONLY they could give some of the classes a skill or trait that allows them to break stealth, Arkanfel. Then we’ll really be cooking.

I’m a firm believer that if you are going to include stealth in a game, that you HAVE to have some kind of reveal ability too. Developers (in a lot of MMOs, not just GW2) are trying to get way too cute with the stuff you can do in stealth and the limitations of its utility.

Personally I think thief/rogue classes should have more evade/dodge/block/parry abilities and less outright “hurr I go invis nao” crap. Thieves are sneaky and quick, but only in MMOs can they go completely invisible. Paper dice game builders seemed to realize this, game developers either don’t or choose to ignore the principle.

Few things are quite so savory to me as thief tears.

There’s finally a hard counter to stealth and now they are going to lose their kitten. Oh, your core gameplay mechanic has a counter now? How bad that must feel. I main guardian—my core gameplay mechanic is boons and I have a low health pool. You know what counters my core gameplay? Boon stripping and conditions.

So welcome to the club of the rest of us. We meet in the gym after AA on Wednesdays. Bring donuts and paper plates.

Yshyr.8709:

Would love to see DB move up. Keep in mind it has been 10 weeks or more since t1 has changed. We simply can’t be sure how t1 and t2 stack up right now. Take a look at the Euro servers. Last week people were all but declaring Viz square unbeatable and this week they are losing to Elona that moved up from t2.

Glicko needs to go. Kaineng deserved a shot at t1 and should have gotten it. DB deserves a shot as do TC and FA. The fact is with Glicko it is perfectly possible that DB, FA, and TC are all now stronger than BG, JQ, and SOR, but we will never get to find out.

( Yes, I realize the T1 servers are likely stronger, but I don’t think everyone realizes that huge queues are gone even in t1 and the outmanned buffed makes a frequent appearance for all 3 servers.)

Hickeroar.9734:

Arkanfel.8403:

Aurust.8961:

Two things

1) If you guys are still discussing how that AC was hitting behind the gates at south hills… an AC below where you build a treb to hit lake tower can hit there behind south hills gate. Pretty standard tactic in tier 1 to clear out siege at south hills.

2) DB please please take this time to point out and educate some of your guys coming into the Tier 1 thread about how DB will come storming in, on how the rating system works.

Yeah, this dude knows what’s up. Even if we tick 300+ for most of the day (which is probably unlikely from here on out) we’ll still be in T2 for a few more weeks at least. 50+k wins It’s actually probably more likely at this point that a T1 server (dare I say, might it actually be JQ?) will drop down than it is DB will advance. If that happens, we’ll get eaten alive. The only way we’d have a chance in T1 right now is to improve our team builds, TS usage, and to become more diligent about following commanders in battle. A zerg who sends 5+ to burst down individual stragglers will soon find itself back at spawn.

Maintaining +50k isn’t a guarantee of moving up. The way the glicko system works is that you are, in some respects, fighting against your past selves. If you win two weeks by +50k, and you win the next week by +40k, chances are your glicko rating is going to DROP, not RISE that week.

Maintaining a +50k average will probably not end up pushing you up a tier, unless a server in the tier above does badly, consistently. At a +50k average, and with a stable tier above, you will just hit a sort-of equilibrium in the tier you’re in where your +50k wins aren’t actually increasing your rating.

Glicko is more complex than it seems from the initial glance. Moving up a tier pretty much requires a server to lay waste to the tier they’re in for two weeks, and often times that won’t even be enough if the tier above them is evenly matched and consistent. This was the case for a long time in T8/T7.

Yeah, I’m just saying it’s probably more likely right now that DB will advance when a T1 server falls than it is to advance because of its own play. DB would have to keep improving, and even though we have a lot of really good guilds and players here, we have probably reached a plateau unless we tweak our game. I don’t really think we’ll be ticking 300 all the time anyway, but I’m pretty sure we’ll remain competitive for now.

Aurust.8961:

Two things

1) If you guys are still discussing how that AC was hitting behind the gates at south hills… an AC below where you build a treb to hit lake tower can hit there behind south hills gate. Pretty standard tactic in tier 1 to clear out siege at south hills.

2) DB please please take this time to point out and educate some of your guys coming into the Tier 1 thread about how DB will come storming in, on how the rating system works.

Yeah, this dude knows what’s up. Even if we tick 300+ for most of the day we’d still be in T2 for a few more weeks at least, but I think 50+k wins are probably a thing of the past. It’s actually probably more likely at this point that a T1 server (dare I say, might it actually be JQ?) will drop down than it is DB will advance. If that happens, we’ll get eaten alive. The only way we’d have a chance in T1 right now is to improve our team builds, TS usage, and to become more diligent about following commanders in battle. A zerg who sends 5+ to burst down individual stragglers will soon find itself back at spawn.

Asudementio.8526:

Arkanfel.8403:

Asudementio.8526:

Arkanfel.8403:

I love how DB goes <100 PPT for a few hours and everyone loses their minds. I’ve been in T2 for most of the last 6 months and I’ve seen FA pushed to 0 before but they’re still here.

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

Wasn’t it your guild leader who challenged FA and TC to push DB low in ppt?

They should be challenging themselves to do that, they shouldn’t need help from CO.

Cute way to dodge the question and insult at the same time. I assure you we intend to suppress our opponents as much as we find achievable given circumstances. That said your kitteny guild leader asked for results and he got them- he should be happy.

“dodge the question” lol.. yeah, like his post isn’t visible on the forums for all to see. we both know what he said, stop trying to be cute about it. My point is that TC and FA shouldn’t need Mayo smack talking to motivate them. If they don’t care about PPT that’s their business, but as long as forum trolls want to come thump their chests they better be able to back it up on the field.

Also, for the record, it wasn’t my intention to disrespect anyone, I just found some of the posts to be goofy considering DB’s anomalous PPT last night. There’s no reason to turn this into a kitten contest.

EDIT: Anet, you’re killing me with the language filter. What is this, 1950?

Asudementio.8526:

Arkanfel.8403:

I love how DB goes <100 PPT for a few hours and everyone loses their minds. I’ve been in T2 for most of the last 6 months and I’ve seen FA pushed to 0 before but they’re still here.

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

Wasn’t it your guild leader who challenged FA and TC to push DB low in ppt?

They should be challenging themselves to do that, they shouldn’t need help from CO.

I love how DB goes <100 PPT for a few hours and everyone loses their minds. I’ve been in T2 for most of the last 6 months and I’ve seen FA pushed to 0 before but they’re still here.

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

Niim.9260:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dear god man get over yourself. Just because there isn’t a hack category in the report tool doesn’t mean they don’t investigate them. I filed a ticket with screenshots when I saw an AC exploit and got an answer back within 3 hours.

If I was a company with the intent on actually policing the game, what would be the best way for my staff to get an accurate assessment in the quickest time possible?

A reporting tool that lets you pick an appropriate category, records character doing reporting, character being reported and thus all of their related information like server. It also records exact position in the game for both characters, exact server time stamp, and anything else that is needed, all wrapped up in a nice summary.

Or

An email address where I have no control over what information that is sent, no hard information on position, character IDs, time, etc.

I think the answer is pretty clear and since they already have a reporting tool which likely gets most of the information needed already, how hard is it to expand to include more categories? This is something that should have been added months ago and I do not think anyone should be making excuses for why it hasn’t.

None of that is lost on me, I’m just saying it’s a little silly to speak so harshly about it. Hacks can be reported, and the reports are read and investigated. Really, that’s all I care about. The lack of a drop-down menu option for it doesn’t really bother me, although your mileage my vary. It would be a nice addition to be sure, but really this is mountains-and-molehills territory. I reported a hack in-game using the “botting” option and it was addressed. This isn’t a big deal.

Kincaidia.3192:

And as a moderator, I’m sure he/she has some channel to pass along the extreme displeasure at what amounts to disingenuous or ineptitude.

Dear god man get over yourself. Just because there isn’t a hack category in the report tool doesn’t mean they don’t investigate them. I filed a ticket with screenshots when I saw an AC exploit and got an answer back within 3 hours.

If you feel so strongly about this, there’s always other games. Just throwing that out there.

KrisHQ.4719:

Guardians are good against players with below-average skill level. When you start to duel more skilled people you will notice that guardians almost lose just as much as warriors.

This dude knows what’s up.

Lyonell.1753:

Bottom line is aside from elementalist, most of these classes only need minor changes to be balanced in terms of game mechanics. If they reduced the power of protection say to 20% and removed retaliation from the guardian then I’d say the guardian would fine. In fact I would remove retaliation from guardians and give them to the warriors, this would make both classes do their roles and not over power one while making the other well useless.

@Littlefeather: Ranger are fine, almost perfectly balanced, their only real issue is the PET AI not being 100% accurate, other than that I play ranger and destroy people in Spvp and WvW lol. I’m not a glass cannon though. If you make glass cannons able to survive they’ll stop being glass cannons don’t you think?

10/10 would wat again

Mayoken.9851:

Challenge accepted at least for CO.
Heh, can’t speak for the others.

Already got a start on it Mayo, I commanded from 9-11am EST on EB and didn’t drop a single AC.

lots of rams and catas though.. startin to run low lol

WyldKat.4712:

iCryptik.1496:

The current RL situation with finals week and the new dungeon has not affected FA the way it has TC, and it is obvious to see that.

I like how our servers get along. The Hate is weak compared to my Ohio State / School Up North beer based brainwashing. College, bwhaaa.

Do you go to OSU? I live like right near campus lol

Loken.9724:

Arkanfel.8403:

Loken.9724:

Arkanfel.8403:

Loken.9724:

Do you think the outcome of that portal would have been any different if I had not known? You stacked DIRECTLY in front of me. We saw you buffing, we saw the portal come down, we saw the mesmer running towards us. It really was just common sense that a portal was coming. It was actually good on you guys that you used it for more of a distraction than anything else. Burned 1/3rd of our CC on it.

That one portal? Who knows. I don’t, because I wasn’t there. But I’m going to guess you fought us more than once on reset night and yes, things probably went down differently than they would have had you not had a spy in our TS. I’m not going to bash you for it, but at the same time people should be aware of what happened; it’s not like you guys just straight-up stomped CO, you had help and you can see it in the video itself.

Anyway, it wasn’t my intention to link the spy to VK but that doesn’t change the fact that you used him. I don’t actually know what guild he’s in, so I was careful to leave your tag out of my post. I actually wasn’t going to bring it up here at all until I saw that video.

As I said man, Spies can only get you too the fight. They can’t win it for you.

Secondly, how do you know I even used him?

Now you are simply making wild accusations based on nothing more than a 1 way PM to me while I was in combat. You see me reply to him? No I didn’t think so .

I know he was there because I’ve spoken to him about it. If you hadn’t used him, you would have shot back with “I blocked him,” not “It’s just a one-way PM and I didn’t respond.” They could all have been one way PMs, it’s still using a spy to read and react to them.

Still, I can’t stress enough that I’m not buttmad over this. We did fine on reset and I’m happy on DB. Inasmuch as ANet can’t really do anything about it, TS spies are a part of the WvW meta, and the only way we can do anything about them is to be diligent about identifying and rooting them out. Unfortunately, on Friday, we weren’t.

You want buttmad, you read this first post and the follow ups.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/About-that-unofficial-dueling/page/3#post1972226

If you can get through all the tears that is.

Yeah, I saw that. I think that if these become common enough, ANet will pretty much have to make GvG happen. There’s nothing wrong with a match here and there, but if I were a WvW dev I wouldn’t want them to be a common fixture; new content should be considered to address that.

But back on topic, uh…. so, how about that FA push last night! xD