Guild Wars 2

Furiousbeard.7602:

I already predicted last week that Kain and FA would fight for second, but TC seems to be doing us a favour by always turning KN BL green.

Yup, it’s their home away from home lol

IRSyKo.5843:

DB has less NA then you do

Oh dear god.. poor kittens

Unfortunately.5940:

This tier is currently the closest NA matchup in point-spread with less than 10k difference between 1st and 3rd. I’d say this tier is still the most competitive.

Yeah, someone mentioned this on my guild’s forum. I hadn’t looked over all of the other scores (since they don’t really interest me), just ours.

So yeah, big picture-wise, Kaineng is still hanging on, I guess, if only barely. The problem is, Kaineng HAS to have a strong weekend in order to win, and her coverage formula has been solved by both TC and FA. Any time we manage to get a PPT lead it is small and short lived (we lost about 60 or 70 PPT as I was writing those two sentences), whereas FA or TC can both pull down 250+ for most of the day fairly consistently. If we lose by less than 50,000 this week I will eat my boots.

I wonder what T2 will be like when Dragonbrand comes. I bet they’ll be pumped.

IRSyKo.5843:

Arkanfel.8403:

Laii.2780:

This was jus yusterday, so yush, KN’s great~

Um… have you seen the scoreboard recently?

As soon as you stop looking at the scoreboard, you will have fun.

heheh… I’m entirely too competitive for that! I mean, obviously I’m still having enough fun to keep playing the game, but I won’t be happy with WvW as long as my server is thousands and thousands of points behind with zero prospect of catching up, much less even staying in the same tier.

It’s one thing when you’re just a PuG, this kind of thing didn’t bother me as much when I was solo running back in the day. But now I’m in a huge guild and I often command 6 or 7 hours every day, so it’s inevitable that I’ll become emotionally invested in the score. Weeks of having all the progress I made during my command undone within an hour or two of leaving has made me a grumpy charr.

Ketharius.9018:

Arkanfel.8403:

Laii.2780:

This was jus yusterday, so yush, KN’s great~

Um… have you seen the scoreboard recently?

Help your sever with a positive force, not a doom and gloom view. Positiveness goes a long way.

If I’m doom and gloom, it’s because that’s what the situation warrants. This server is losing population and playing like trash; both other teams are taking good advantage of it. Kaineng will be T3 in a week or two, and I am most emphatically Not Okay with that.

Laii.2780:

This was jus yusterday, so yush, KN’s great~

Um… have you seen the scoreboard recently?

WyldKat.4712:

Let’s have a donation drive for a treb to KN so they can really make it fly!

That… would actually be kind of fun. Like the bungie ride at an amusement park or something .

Unless you’re talking about trebbing crap, not us (I admit it has been hard to tell the two apart recently). That would just be messy and gross.

>be Kaineng
>be down 10,000 points 36 hours after reset
>+15 PPT on home BL during weekend NA daytime
>not outmanned
>less than 20 on commander at all times
>finally take back home garrison
>lower worldwide PPT than when we started
>FA and TC apparently leaving each others’ home BLs alone

So we ready to admit Kaineng is done, or are we still trying to make this “you guys are doing great!” crap fly?

u best be trollan son

I’m locked out of my account because someone is trying to steal it… I can’t take this! Thirteen hours and counting on my ticket. I want in! >:O

(also, the filter on this forum is bananas)

There has been some strangeness with my account lately; apparently 6 days ago someone with broken English used my emails to file a bogus ticket asking ANet to change my account details. I updated the ticket to explain this, and asked that my support account be linked to a different email. Somebody hacked my account in December, and now I’m pretty sure they were able to do so by having had access to the old email.

The weird thing is, my email was changed by the support staff, but I was also locked out of my account until I can contact someone from support. I’ve filed a ticket, but I’m also posting this in the hopes that it will help move things along faster. I missed WvW reset, and am active in a large guild so I’m kind of chomping at the bit to get back in.

JudgeD.5673:

Scouting of towers, eh? Seems my job is now not merely needed but demanded. Well, I’ll have fun tonight trying to keep tabs on TC/FA.

Tower scouting (even across maps) is one of the big ingredients to TC’s success. Their commanders seem very responsive to any calls of 20+ inc or siege being built. The server on the whole is also far better than we are on defense in general, particularly when it comes to siege placement and counter-trebbing. This week during NA daytime it was pretty common for TC to be holed up at Hills on KBL, outmanned or close for hours but still adequately defending the keep. When the shoe is on the other foot, we tend to lose keeps quickly. I think my jaw would about hit the floor if I saw us hold a lone keep other than home Garrison on a borderland for hours while outmanned.

Anthrage.2519:

I think there is no question TC over-performed this week and KN under-performed. The reasons for that have already been touched on, and even discounting those things that are in dispute, there are some which have clearly been factors. The score reflects this to be sure.

I however am speaking more in terms of the health of the match-up, not of Kaineng itself. I expect the final totals at the end of this round to be somewhere near:

TC – 235 000
FA – 209 000
KN – 181 000

While this would indeed be 54k less points for KN than TC, heading towards the 60k you mention, it is not out of line for the values we have seen historically in this match-up for each respective position. 3rd place has been at 186, 180, 182 and 193k…KN finishing at 181 is in line with the match-up positions, just not with KN’s performance.

In short, who typically finishes first and who typically finishes last may change. There are real factors at work here aside from who wins the battles on the field which are impacting each team’s performance this round. My position is however that the match-up itself is pretty stable, given who is in Tier 1 and who is in Tier 3, and that the quality of the match-up – and the fights – in this Tier is high, and I expect it to remain so, even with KN is indeed – for the moment, suffering serious problems.

As for KN itself, If you look at the graph I linked, you’ll see their incredible rise pretty starkly displayed. As a KN player I’m sure you know better than I. I have seen nothing in my rounds against KN, in my fights on the field with it’s players, or in this thread which leads me to believe KN is mortally wounded and unable to compete. You guys may have to change some things, perhaps even rethink how you fight given you may no longer be in the position of strength and superiority you have been up till now…but I do not see any reason for funeral services just yet.

I don’t think that the bottom score is really indicative of the match, though. What really matters if you want to see how well a server is performing throughout the match is not so much the points but the point gaps. TC and FA were competitive with each other this week until Wednesday night, whereas Kaineng hasn’t been competitive with with TC since the weekend of the 29th, or FA at any point since this last reset.

I believe that it’s not so much that Kaineng is getting weaker, so much as it is that the other servers are getting stronger. I don’t think we’ve lost a tremendous amount of people or talent, but participation is dropping and even at our height we never won the tier by sixty thousand points. I appreciate the folks putting on a cheerful face and everything (and even our opponents who insist that we’re doing fine), but I think the reality of the situation is pretty unpleasant for this server. If we lose next week, our turnout and morale problems will only get worse, and I’m already tired of trying to command while outmanned. On the whole, I’m still enjoying myself—don’t get me wrong—but I think the population and organization on Kaineng have been stagnant for longer than just this last week. With a couple exceptions, I don’t think strategy has really been a problem, and our gameplay is usually fine too. We don’t drop enough superior siege and seem to have trouble scouting our towers (which is kind of a big deal when it comes to PPT and momentum), but once the weekend is over we can only man two and part of a third map even during NA prime.

Your mileage may vary but I am about ready to call the priest. I will try my hardest but I really doubt we have it in us to be competitive next week. WM should be coming back, I think, so that would help but we can’t rely on them anymore. Kaineng won with a certain formula that I don’t think she will be able to change without mass transfers from NA and EU. Her formula has been solved by both other servers now and the only way is down (at least out of T2) unless those transfers roll in. I doubt they will, since time is already pretty close to running out. I suspect that after another loss or two like this and guilds will probably start to give up.

I iz sad charr. T_T

Ketharius.9018:

Anthrage.2519:

On the topic of this match-up and the various statements about it, this here is perhaps the best way to show just what things are like. Filter for our 3 servers by clicking the boxes at lower left and you’ll get a very clear picture.

In terms of match scores, going backwards:

TC – 223 590
FA – 201 409
KN – 173 529

TC – 222 746
KN – 209 096
FA – 186 601

KN – 213 128
TC – 207 825
FA – 180 466

KN – 217 255
FA – 190 887
TC – 182 386

KN – 220 054
TC – 200 080
FA – 193 536

Or looked at another way:

KN: 220 054, 217 255, 213 128, 222 746, 173 529
TC: 200 080, 182 386, 207 825, 222 746, 223 590
FA: 193 536, 190 887, 180 466, 186 601, 201 409

No need to panic folks. If anything, KN is anomalous at the moment, but otherwise, things are continuing on track.

I like this. +1

See, this is why I think Kaineng’s problems are so serious. We will finish the match close to 60,000 points behind. Just eyeballing it I would say that looks close to double the average margin between first and third over the history of this matchup. Most of those gaps seem to be in the 30,000-35,000 range.

Anthrage.2519:

You may yet be proven correct, but it is far too early to say that yet about this match-up. Each of the three teams has won matches by margins equally as large, and each has fielded more numbers than the others to a similar degree. People need to look at the bigger picture. This is Week 5, as the topic reminds us...there will be at least 2 more. This ain’t over yet.

I don’t think it’s too early, we’ve been playing for five weeks and Kaineng crapped the bed for two, arguably three of them if you look at just NA/EU. Even when she won, Kaineng was carried by her Oceanics. NA gets slaughtered, not necessarily always in fights when they happen, but lately in PPT. There is no EU on the server to speak of.

I’m often told I’m too negative (I’m sure everyone is shocked!) but I was still right when I predicted our loss last week and I predicted our fall out of T2 after seeing how we followed it up. I did not predict either of these things without evidence, and despite my grumbling I still command every day so I’m very closely familiar with what Kaineng has to work with. We can still fight, but we don’t have enough people to actually hold large amounts of territory. For now all we can really hope to do is wipe zergs and hold our own on individual maps. This can be fun, but it’s not how servers win WvW matchups. The way the scoring works, you can’t really build a safe lead without going at least +300 for long stretches--and even this assumes your second opponent isn’t +0 or close. That happened to us last week; I think FA actually got fully pushed for a minute or five, and I kept looking up at 300 PPT and thinking "aww yee" but when you expanded the score, TC was right around the same in points. Problem was, most of the territory we held was "supposed" to belong to FA, so when they woke back up (which didn’t take long) they ate points mostly from us and we were soon losing 75+ PPT to TC. So since we had more of what should have been FA, and TC had more of what should have been ours, they won the points game that night, and I think almost every night since.

I think this week, in order for Kaineng to win (or maybe even to come in second) she will likely have to turn in a new server best performance. During EU primetime, we’re probably looking at losing (assuming an average ~100-150 PPT loss during, say, 5 hours which would be [125PPT*20 ticks]) 2,500 points on territory alone, plus probably another thousand for kills and yaks and whatnot. If TC has a stronger oceanic presence this week, as hyped, this means that Kaineng may not be able to pull down +300 during her usual strong slot for long enough to catch up. This means that Kaineng’s NA primetime has to win its matchup, probably every day. I work evenings so I always miss the start of NA prime, but it’s usually pretty ugly when I get there around 11pm and I spend most of my commands (in borderlands at least) trying to run damage control.

Anthrage.2519:

First, I think it should be noted that this tier, this match-up, was one of the best…

Fixed that for ya. :P

Harrish.8743:

Arkanfel.8403:

But even then all you’re doing is making an already more powerful server just that much stronger.

We’ve been the “more powerful server” for a whopping week now. People act like TC is dominating T2. We’ve won one time and were behind FA until last night. Our T2 record is 1-3-11.

Things fluctuate. I’ve no doubt FA or KN will knock us out of the top spot at some point. That’s what makes T2 so much fun right now.

Actually, I think TC has been better (at least in terms of NA coverage) for more like 2 or 3 weeks now. Kaineng has had to rely pretty heavily on its Oceanic crew, as a rule. Honestly though, I could see things starting to deteriorate well before our loss last week. I still thought we were going to win until I woke up on Friday morning, but I knew we were going to lose to TC within a week or two at that rate.

FA surprised me this week but TC has simply been more consistent than either other server for most of the last month now. For our part, the PPT leads we have managed to attain (even this week, it happened a few times) are not large enough and don’t last long enough to really cut down a lead. We can still win fights when our cores are out, but we’re going to keep losing until we as a server learn how to defend, and bolster our EU and NA coverage. Without those things, we won’t be able to compete.

I personally will be working hard to make sure I eat some crow next week, and I hope the server does too. That I’m saying these things doesn’t mean I WANT us to lose, and I’m not happy we’re doing badly because it fits my prediction. I’m stocking up on siege and taking some time off to chill out and regroup, and I’ll be back out there with a hammer in your face all weekend and through next week every single day.

dEjAhVu.4526:

I’m dissapointed with some of the Kain players that are taking some nasty opinions about server transfers. Take a look at your own server.

I apologize to TC/FA if any offense has been taking. As TC knows, Kaineng has always been respectful. Don’t let the opinion of a few ruin that reputation we have with you guys.

I understand that Kaineng players have been putting long hours into WvW and are exhausted as it seems we aren’t moving anywhere like we used to. Put your efforts into recruiting more people into your guild, making more members from your guild show up in WvW. Posting positive reinforcement into our transfer recruitment thread. But please, dont sit here being negative towards another servers success. It’s putting a bad taste in everyone’s mouth.

Kaineng is still strong. Our opponents are just getting stronger. It’s amazing that in a few weeks the scores have changed this much. I love the competition. Let’s be as competitive as we can be and make it hard for TC to take first place next week.

I’m not disrespecting anyone, and considering how things have gone for us lately I should hope it’s okay to not be happy about that. Yes, Kaineng has had transfers (who hasn’t?) but I’m not wealthy enough to pay for transfers so cross-server recruitment is not something I can really help with. My responsibilities, such as they are, begin and end on the battlefield.

I know we haven’t actually lost that many players/guilds, but I think it’s pretty clear that both other servers are increasing their population (internally or through transfers it doesn’t really matter) AND getting better at the game while we are sort of stagnating. We can still win open-field fights, but we are completely outclassed when it comes to things like scouting, counter-trebbing, and placing/manning defensive siege. For my part, I’m still trying to work with what we have every day. But until those things start to improve (and I can only do so much myself, it’s not like I can scout a tower or hang out on a treb with my tag on) I may be a little testy. I’m a newish poster here, but I’m sure we’ll all get used to me soon enough. I don’t really hate or dislike/disrespect TC or FA, I just complain a lot when I think I have a reason to—and I’m not liking what I’ve seen from Kaineng’s game these last few weeks, relative to our opponents. This is part of the reason why I was reluctant to command, but people keep asking me to do it and I want them to win and be happy so I go out there and try to win at least my own map every day. Well, except today >.>

Asudementio.8526:

If you want T2 to be competitive, fight for it- get better. Don’t ask us to slow down for you; we have never been and likely will never be extended that courtesy.

I do plenty of fighting, thanks. In the words of the redoubtable Barristan Selmy: “I am a knight! I shall die a knight!”

And every server zergs, just because you only count your guildies as your zerg and count everyone with a red nameplate in ours doesn’t make ours magically larger….

I’m not complaining about the zerg. I’m just saying that TC can already field them far more often than we can. I mentioned in another post a few days ago that I have a suspicion that other servers have more lowbies (I’m not sure if it’s true, it’s just a hunch) so numbers are often deceiving anyway. Anyway, TC’s scouting is better and more important than its zerg is.

Whitebeard.5172:

Arkanfel.8403:

Ren.6351:

First time poking in this thread. I know there’s been a huge uproar about our moving to TC and I can only say we moved to just have some fights.

You want fights so you transfer to the largest, most active server in the tier? For most of the day (NA) TC’s zerg is so gigantic that you have to run from it.

It really ticks me off how TC was so gung-ho about “supporting” our recruitment efforts, yet look who is getting all the transfers. I have a sneaking suspicion that the days of a competitive T2 are rapidly nearing an end.

Ark, they are all Oceanic/European guilds sir. If you are NA time you will more than likely never meet. On the other hand they do seem to seek large battles of which I;m sure they will find being our TC brothers and sisters need a bit of help during those times.

It’s all about bringing some competition into the hours that you and I do not play, it’s all good sir.

PS: I would also think that the KN and FA guilds who play during those time periods would welcome the competition or bags, however you want to look at it.

I meet everyone at some point; I usually play from 10-11am – 4-5pm EST and then again from 11pm-2-3am. These transfers (unless they are counterbalanced by some to Kaineng—fat chance) will almost certainly make my life harder. Usually right now I’m getting ready to face EU primetime, which is already stronger on both other servers than it is on Kaineng. Home Borderlands is already flipped on a regular basis between 2-4 pm EST, so the idea that TC in particular needs transfers to help them balance out a EU gap seems false to me on its face. I would actually argue that Kaineng needs an EU presence more than anything else; it has virtually none.

Oceanic? Maybe. But even then all you’re doing is making an already more powerful server just that much stronger. You can do that if you want, but I suppose it only makes sense that not everyone (myself included, I guess) will be happy with it. But I’m sure WM and KOR will welcome the competition.

But TC needing EU? Get outta here! :P

Ren.6351:

First time poking in this thread. I know there’s been a huge uproar about our moving to TC and I can only say we moved to just have some fights.

You want fights so you transfer to the largest, most active server in the tier? For most of the day (NA) TC’s zerg is so gigantic that you have to run from it.

It really ticks me off how TC was so gung-ho about “supporting” our recruitment efforts, yet look who is getting all the transfers. I have a sneaking suspicion that the days of a competitive T2 are rapidly nearing an end.

Hickeroar.9734:

Arkanfel.8403:

Equinox.4195:

Seriously, Kaineng? TC had SM 90% capped. It was 2800 supplies, aka max upgrades, and you had to ruin that flip. You would have benefitted from that as well, you know. Taking a wooden Stonemist is A LOT easier than taking a fully upgraded Stonemist, and it rewards the same PPT. I really have to facepalm at that. Ridiculous.

I was the KN commander last night on EB until about 4am and I don’t remember seeing TC even kill the lord, much less start capping. At no point when I was on the map last night did SMC have more than 100 supply, much less 2800. I don’t know where you’re getting that from, but I do know that we put an awful lot of pressure on them considering we were outmanned. Hell, I think we came closer to taking out the lord’s room siege than you guys did. At least while I was there.

Anyway, maybe you’re referring to something that happened after I left (I logged at 4am on the dot EST), but even if you are SMC did not have 2800 supply lol

We killed the lord several times and started capping a few as well. (Between midnight and 3am)

We almost were able to take advantage of your OL push though. We didn’t get to SM inner in time and they’d already repelled you. :/

They were doing a really good job of using their WP and running supplies from OL. Before I lost my zerg, they spike repaired the south inner gate and I had no choice but to try and follow you guys in through the north gate. About half of us wiped, and then after that I didn’t really have any numbers to work with so we started to wind down the assault a bit. We did manage to catch them with their pants down once—we were able to clear some siege in the lord’s room and hole up on the third floor, but FA won downstairs and we were rooted out after maybe 15 or 20 minutes. After that was when we tried the OL/Mendon’s push, which they repelled (although the latter only barely).

For my money, I’d like to know just how both servers had 50+ zergs at 3 in the morning! At the ‘height’ of my command I had maybe 20-25. T_T

Equinox.4195:

Seriously, Kaineng? TC had SM 90% capped. It was 2800 supplies, aka max upgrades, and you had to ruin that flip. You would have benefitted from that as well, you know. Taking a wooden Stonemist is A LOT easier than taking a fully upgraded Stonemist, and it rewards the same PPT. I really have to facepalm at that. Ridiculous.

I was the KN commander last night on EB until about 4am and I don’t remember seeing TC even kill the lord, much less start capping. At no point when I was on the map last night did SMC have more than 100 supply, much less 2800. I don’t know where you’re getting that from, but I do know that we put an awful lot of pressure on them considering we were outmanned. Hell, I think we came closer to taking out the lord’s room siege than you guys did. At least while I was there.

Anyway, maybe you’re referring to something that happened after I left (I logged at 4am on the dot EST), but even if you are SMC did not have 2800 supply lol

Pervin.5036:

Arkanfel.8403:

Yeah, bourbon can be rough. I found some rot-gut bourbon at my local liquor store a couple of years ago that was like $10 for a liter. It was obviously not so great, but it got me smashed. Seriously, they probably could have used it as engine degreaser. But that didn’t stop me from drinking way too much of the stuff. I had some… digestive difficulties while I was drinking it. They don’t call it “rot-gut” for nothing!

Scotch drinker as well or just stick to bourbon? Seems like there are quite a few of us in BT that love our whiskey and scotches and it makes for an interesting reset night on TS.

Scotch is alright, but it’s usually too good/pricey to slam down like I like to do with borubon and whiskey. You’ve got to savor scotch; it’s the only brown liquor I’ll drink on the rocks. I’m partial to Johnny Walker Black and Chivas Regal.

ghtchill.7613:

@Arkanfel. No offense but maybe you should drink and post less.

Yeah, okay mom.

I do not think the situation is dimal, but I understand your concerns. I just think perhaps you should take your opinion to an actual Kaineng forum such as; kainengunited.net or whatever, where more Kaineng feel comfortable responding without feeling like they are adding to the flames. This is no place for it.

What flames? I’ve spent more time than I care to admit on internet forums and this thread seems to be one of the more civil ones. I took care to stress that I don’t think Kaineng players themselves are getting worse, so I don’t understand why someone should need to feel insulted that I’m saying our server is dying (which it is).

Have you ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophesy?

>blow a 10,000 point lead
>bad reset and weekend
>down 10,000 by Monday morning
>server plans push, attains 160 PPT during NA primetime
>I predict serverdeath

My statements are more a reaction than an actual prediction. I’m not armchair-speculating here, I’m saying what I’m saying because I spend several hours every day commanding and I understand how WvW matchups evolve and progress. TC simply has too many (for whoever was complaining about KN never being on FA BL, it’s because we simply do not have enough people) and FA is really stepping up their game. I think it’s pretty obvious that we can’t compete anymore. Perhaps you believe things will get better later, but optimism seldom comes easily to me.

Niim.9260:

shudder bourbon.. I was in Trinidad over xmas once and ended up in the back room of a rural police station, having an xmas drink with the police (not something I think you should say no to when it’s offered) and the drink was a big tumbler of straight, warm bourbon of not the finest quality. Great folks, but that drink was a tough one to swallow.

Yeah, bourbon can be rough. I found some rot-gut bourbon at my local liquor store a couple of years ago that was like $10 for a liter. It was obviously not so great, but it got me smashed. Seriously, they probably could have used it as engine degreaser. But that didn’t stop me from drinking way too much of the stuff. I had some… digestive difficulties while I was drinking it. They don’t call it “rot-gut” for nothing!

Niim.9260:

Arkanfel.8403:

Read my next post after that one please. I’m grousing because my server is dying, and I think I felt compelled to single you guys out because you’re always noticeable. Plus it’s late, I’m drunk, and I spent 5+ hours flipping home BL today only to have most of it lost by the time I came home from a short shift at work.

Alas, whatever happened at Hills later was not under my command. I actually de-tagged maybe 30-45 minutes before we even took it. I tend to ignore you guys unless I’m about to engage a larger force and need to collect my tail, which you’re very good at harassing. If you got hit by the whole zerg, it was probably because whoever was commanding got frustrated. I’m sure it has happened to you guys a few times, I know I’ve doubled back to deal with you more than once! :P

No worries, all in good fun. What were you drinking? I am partial to Jameson’s on ice, tonight I was into the home made wine though.

See, that’s the weird thing—I’m as much Irish as anything else (more maybe) but I never really liked Jameson. I think it’s too weak. I’m a bourbon man when it comes to my brown liquor. I have a hard time drinking it on ice; I love scotch, bourbon, and some whiskeys but if I drink it slowly I get headaches. Oddly, this doesn’t happen when I pound it straight, so that’s what I do.

Mostly though I drink beer. Tonight, I was drinking beer. I’m usually hitting the Yuengling’s because it’s cheap, but sometimes I splurge for Newcastle (even though it’s even weaker—it’s so delicious) or one of the Great Lakes beers.

Niim.9260:

Arkanfel.8403:

On forum: “Oh I love Kaineng they’re such great opponents, class act!”

In game: “Kaineng is at 100 ppt so let’s go take their home garrison and ignore FA even though they’re winning”

or:

“Oh, I see Kaineng is trying to take Bay. We could take a tower or two and improve our PPT while TC is busy and grow our lead, but let’s sit at south gate and pick off Kaineng reinforcements so that TC can hold their keep while we stay at +10 PPT on this map.”

— AoN

Love it.

How did AoN get dragged into the conspiracy theory nonsense?

There is only certain situations that involve AoN attempting to take a tower or keep. 1) We ran through already opened defenses and killed everyone else 2) Some nefarious plan, hatched out of boredom, that involves a lot of killing 3) We are coordinating with other FA guilds and that is our task.

We pay zero attention to PPT and only the threat of dropping to dominate a lower tier would inspire us to care enough to try and make sure that didn’t happen.

In short if it seems like we are helping an enemy server, wait five minutes and see who we are attacking next. An hour later than your example we were in hills harassing the TC zerg ball to keep pressure off of the inner part of the keep that KN was defending. Unfortunately KN attacked all six of us instead of TC, promptly got stomped by TC and lost hills. I would respectfully suggest to the conspiracy crowd that some of KN is actually allied with TC and handing them keeps!

Read my next post after that one please. I’m grousing because my server is dying, and I think I felt compelled to single you guys out because you’re always noticeable. Plus it’s late, I’m drunk, and I spent 5+ hours flipping home BL today only to have most of it lost by the time I came home from a short shift at work.

Alas, whatever happened at Hills later was not under my command. I actually de-tagged maybe 30-45 minutes before we even took it. I tend to ignore you guys unless I’m about to engage a larger force and need to collect my tail, which you’re very good at harassing. If you got hit by the whole zerg, it was probably because whoever was commanding got frustrated. I’m sure it has happened to you guys a few times, I know I’ve doubled back to deal with you more than once! :P

Lanimal.6541:

Arkanfel.8403:

On forum: “Oh I love Kaineng they’re such great opponents, class act!”

In game: “Kaineng is at 100 ppt so let’s go take their home garrison and ignore FA even though they’re winning”

or:

“Oh, I see Kaineng is trying to take Bay. We could take a tower or two and improve our PPT while TC is busy and grow our lead, but let’s sit at south gate and pick off Kaineng reinforcements so that TC can hold their keep while we stay at +10 PPT on this map.”

— AoN

Love it.

The reasoning behind the first one is slightly different than that.

“CO RE and RISE are on TCBL hitting us pretty hard we need to get them off TCBL so lets pressure their Garrison in KABL. Once they leave we can attempt at upgrading our properties in TCBL.”

haha it’s okay I’m just bitter because we’re on our way to T3. TC had 60+ man zergs on both TC and KBL, so it’s only natural that they’d try to take them over (especially since we were outmanned on both maps).

RIP Kaineng

On forum: “Oh I love Kaineng they’re such great opponents, class act!”

In game: “Kaineng is at 100 ppt so let’s go take their home garrison and ignore FA even though they’re winning”

or:

“Oh, I see Kaineng is trying to take Bay. We could take a tower or two and improve our PPT while TC is busy and grow our lead, but let’s sit at south gate and pick off Kaineng reinforcements so that TC can hold their keep while we stay at +10 PPT on this map.”

— AoN

Love it.

Whitebeard.5172:

IRSyKo.5843:

FA isn’t really getting transfers Arkanfel

It’s the same people who have been on the server since Day 1 for the most part.

I Foresee TC pushing into T1 and soonish, not sure what’s gonna happen to KN, you guys might surprise everybody and destroy next week for all we know. But KN certainly hasn’t been doing well these last 2 weeks or so

I don’t see anyone moving up or down anytime in the near future unless someone in T1 or T3 either plummets like a rock or skyrockets for some reason.

This. To be honest, any of us would be crushed in T1 if we went there next week. TC will probably be in tier 2 for at least 6 weeks unless a T1 server falls apart. Even at our closest (after 4 weeks of winning the tier, which I will remember fondly) we were still 150 rating points behind Sanctum of Rall.

IRSyKo.5843:

FA isn’t really getting transfers Arkanfel

Either you’re getting transfers, or guilds that never used to WvW are starting to do so regularly. I have seen far too many new faces in the last few weeks to believe that FA is not growing its WvW presence.

phaneo.4597:

No offense meant, but from an outsider POV, you guys are doing just great.

I don’t think Kaineng will go back to T8 or anything, but our time at the top of T2 is clearly at an end. Kaineng has peaked, while both of her opponents are steadily growing and getting better. We’re the only server in T2 that is outmanned on offensive borderlands during NA primetime—and when we are, both servers notice and respond quickly by pushing us completely off the map as they should. EB and (very short) outmanned windows aside, I do not think I have ever seen a TC tower without a scout, so you can’t just ninja their stuff either.

If anything, most of your players are burnt out from endless hours they’ve put in for the past few weeks or should I say, months? They’ve done quite a lot to get a hardly known server to T2, which is almost a T1 contender now.

Burnout is a minor factor, in my opinion, and often exaggerated. Everyone suffers from burnout if they play or command often enough. I don’t really think burnout has much to do with this turnaround, but if it does, things will only get worse as morale starts to free-fall.

Sure, huge population helps a lot and most of them were transfers. But honestly which server hasn’t gotten any transfers?

I’m reasonably sure that Kaineng has had few or no new WvW transfers since January of February-ish. Tsym chose to go to SoR over us, and I heard some Blackgate guilds went back to TC. RET’s leadership returned to FA with a shiny new guild. I’m not all doom-and-gloom just because we’re losing; I think both other servers are getting larger and improving their game. We are doing neither of those things.

Hell, even one of our best advantages will only last so long; this is just my instinct talking but I think we have fewer lowbies than the other servers. TC zergs in particular look a lot more intimidating then they often actually are; I’ve been in fights where I ran right into the middle of their zerg and flattened like 5-6 lowbies right off the bat. I’m sure that has happened to us too, but I worry what encounters will start to look like once more of TC’s population gets leveled and geared. I don’t have much to go on in saying this, but I think that Kaineng has/had a larger population of WvW regulars that already had everything squared away. Our population is not growing, and if it is not growing, that means it is shrinking (slowly, at least) as players get bored with WvW, or frustrated with losing etc.

I think most of them deserve some break – and no I’m not saying so we could get easy wins. I don’t want a repeat of T3 where nobody has much to do than wait for some fights. I wish they get as much of a break as I wish TC’ers get after the overnight hours some of our commanders have put in the last week to get us to win the matchup, just so we could say we did it, and if/when FA pushes as hard and wins a matchup, I’d wish the same for them. I wouldn’t say any of the three servers are done or dying, etc just because the reset wasn’t a blowout. Reset is never an indicator of final result, which is always observed to be true. Have faith in your server and your guilds and friends. We’re so closely matched right now that any server can be green next week and anybody can be red – all of that could change within hours before next reset. What else could you ask for, if not this kind of excitement?

Kaineng NEEDS reset to be a blowout in order to win. We did okay last reset, but our lead going into Monday was smaller than it had historically been, and as the week wore on TC gained morale and momentum as we lost it. Now our presence throughout the week after maybe 1-2pm EST is nonexistent. We seem to still do okay on EB for the most part, but we rarely defend even our own map, and even during primetime any gains I’ve been able to make on an offensive borderland have been lost or undone within an hour or two.

I don’t think Kaineng’s players are getting worse, and I’m not blaming what I consider to be our inevitable decline on transfers to opponents’ servers. But I’ve played a lot of WvW and I feel pretty qualified in assessing the ebb and flow of each matchup. If the server continues to fracture and decline, Kaineng might even be in T3 next month. I’m not throwing in the towel or anything, but I think we will lose by 25,000 or more this week.

Well it was fun while it lasted, Kaineng.

This server is done.

I thought we’d be able to hold on but I guess it didn’t happen. I knew TC was going to beat us eventually, but I couldn’t have imagined it would happen like this. I don’t think I’ve ever played in a WvW match that was decided in the last 48 hours before. I’m not happy with with happened this week, but congrats TC.

Thrumdi.9216:

Server-wide truces are selfish, especially during prime time hours.

Many people only have a few hours a day to WvW. To log on and find no fights because someone is organizing a PvE event is kind of crappy.

If you must do something like this, schedule it for the off-hours, like before noon.

They’d only need to be location-specific, like at lowlands keep from 12am-12:20am, Veloka from 12:25-12:45, and so on.. There will almost certainly be people on all sides who aren’t participating; all I can really do is try to get some people on me to escort opponents to their vistas and make sure they don’t try to gank the keep or build siege or whatnot. I’m pretty sure some fights will still be taking place for those who want to participate in them.

Also, the more I think about it, I’m not sure we could really maneuver the PPT in any meaningful way, but we could at least agree to a general status quo in EB. We really need those points, is my concern, since EB seems to be our strongest map by far this week.

Nick.6972:

12am-1am Server time 5th April?

No, EST

Hickeroar.9734:

Arkanfel.8403:

I can’t speak for everyone but I’m okay with a temporary truce tonight at 12pm EST. The match last week was so close we had to play instead of karaoke. It’s still very close but I’m a little burnt out and could use a night off. TC has been giving me fits these last few days >.<

Assuming my guild and GM are cool with it, I am open to coordinating a ceasefire in EB tonight for vista/POI completion. I’ll ask around when I log in, which is usually between 10:30 and 11ish EST. This week I’ve typically had solo command of EB during weeknights so people will hopefully listen to me if we end up doing this.

HOWEVER, with the scores being as they are I can’t guarantee that such an idea would gain traction. But I, for one, could use a bit of a breather. If you’re going to be commanding on either other server tonight at midnight, feel free to msg me after 11pm and I’ll let you know what we decide. IF we do this, I will want TC and KN to have relatively even PPT for the duration of the ceasefire (which probably shouldn’t exceed 60ish minutes); you guys are gaining ground fast and I don’t want to lose the match just because we decided to all bro up in EB for a few hours. I’ve worked too hard this week for that! :P

Would it make more sense to start the cease fire maybe 90 minutes before reset tomorrow night? That way the PPT is mostly irrelevant, and the results are all-but locked in. Maybe just allow teams to keep ownership of their assets, but bash down all the doors to allow access by all teams.

Guilds need that time to prepare for reset. The hour or two before reset is just as important in some ways as the hour or two that follows.

And yes, retained ownership should be required so as not to mess with PPT. For example, if someone needs to come into our keep, they send 10 at a time from one team at a time and attack only the gates to get in. If a treb comes up, no deal. If we lose a tower, no deal. The Kaineng zerg would sit in the lord’s room, not attacking. Anyone who attacks can be wiped by FA/TC. Breaches at all desired vistas/POIs should occur within fifteen minutes of ceasefire start, so the rest of the time can be used to repair the gates and retake camps. Commanders and guild leaders from each server must party up with each other to keep tabs on the others and as a point of contact. Ceasefire duration would be from 12am-1am, give or take ten minutes or so.

Those would be my terms, I think.

I can’t speak for everyone but I’m okay with a temporary truce tonight at 12pm EST. The match last week was so close we had to play instead of karaoke. It’s still very close but I’m a little burnt out and could use a night off. TC has been giving me fits these last few days >.<

Assuming my guild and GM are cool with it, I am open to coordinating a ceasefire in EB tonight for vista/POI completion. I’ll ask around when I log in, which is usually between 10:30 and 11ish EST. This week I’ve typically had solo command of EB during weeknights so people will hopefully listen to me if we end up doing this.

HOWEVER, with the scores being as they are I can’t guarantee that such an idea would gain traction. But I, for one, could use a bit of a breather. If you’re going to be commanding on either other server tonight at midnight, feel free to msg me after 11pm and I’ll let you know what we decide. IF we do this, I will want TC and KN to have relatively even PPT for the duration of the ceasefire (which probably shouldn’t exceed 60ish minutes); you guys are gaining ground fast and I don’t want to lose the match just because we decided to all bro up in EB for a few hours. I’ve worked too hard this week for that! :P

phaneo.4597:

…every week … every time… when a server takes the lead in a timeslot… you hear cries similar to that of a baby somewhere in the ghettos of a 3rd world country…for entirely different reasons.

That’s odd, I’ve seen TC take the lead in PPT at least a dozen times in the last three weeks (and hold it for hours at a time), but I’ve never predicted a victory for them until now.

I’m not saying TC is going to win sometime soon because they took the lead at a certain time, I’m saying TC is going to win because their population is growing and they’re getting better. Look at TC BL, they hold the whole map 24 hours a day with waypoints in all three keeps. Look at KN BL, we’re lucky to hold half of it at any time after about 2-3pm EST, and we generally have zero presence in TC and FA borderlands. There have been times this week where virtually all of Kaineng PPT was coming from Eternal Battlegrounds. This is not a recipe for continued success, especially if TC continues to grow and improve.

azizul.8469:

Arkanfel.8403:

TC will win Tier 2 within the month.

Mark my words.

which month?

>within the month

Isaac.6041:

1 man is enough to take or do serious damage to a keep if no one is watching so yes they should be able to contest the waypoint. End of discussion. No changes necessary.

>mfw I read this passage

TC will win Tier 2 within the month.

Mark my words.

Jeda.5209:

Arkanfel.8403:

This thread is rife with knee-jerk condescension.

My server has been winning its matchups since Blackgate left Tier 2. When I’m playing (which lately has almost always been in EB), we’ve actually had our keep and SMC waypoints active most of the time. I actually notice swords far more often on the enemy keeps than on ours. So I’m not “QQing” when I say that WP contesting needs to change—if that’s all you’ve got to shoot back with, just keep that round in the chamber for someone else because it won’t work here.

In my view, being able to constantly knock out a WP is a power that a single player on foot should not possess. I don’t mind that the contested mechanic exists, but I do think it needs to be changed. I’m not really keen on the whole “white swords could mean one person, or 24” concept and I can’t say I’m sure why they chose to rework it that way. Waypoints should only be contested if there is an actual threat to the structure in question: e.g. it is under siege, or a gate/wall has taken a certain amount of damage over a certain window of time.

Same thing with defense events. I shouldn’t “earn” wxp just because I built an arrow cart or dropped 2 supply on a wall within three minutes after a thief tagged the gate. I didn’t really do anything to defend the tower any more than the enemy actually attacked it.

That said, I’m pretty satisfied with the overall state of WvW, although I’d be lying if I tried to tell you that I wasn’t looking forward to future updates. I was actually kind of surprised that they didn’t add in some Orb rework with this last patch.

Must not know about the FA thief who lives for pvwall on kains keep for endless hours even when we occupy most of their towers in EBG. You don’t have to hit the gate, just hit a cannon, etc. And then just go back to pvwall or other means to go permastealth.

It however affects us in the very least. Heck I’ve done it to them on my main thief, but usually when it actually means something like everyone needing to rush to smc or something. This guy does it because apparently he loves to pvwall for hours rather than play the game lol.

Oh, I’ve noticed him, but something has been constantly contesting both enemy keeps too. I don’t know whether they’re doing it to each other or what, but I haven’t had to go out of my way to contest a keep or send anyone to tap a gate (then again I’ve only been commanding for 3 weeks now). I honestly can’t remember the last time I saw either enemy keep WP uncontested. Even as I’m writing this, they’re both contested.

Isaac.6041:

Nothing much to see here. Some people are too lazy to check when the defense event ends and use the waypoint then.

zzzz

I send scouts to SMC when it is contested and always WP if the timer would expire before I got there. Home keep is a different story, since I seldom need to port back there anyway.

The WP contest mechanic still needs to change.

Got anything else?

Deadcell.9052:

Arkanfel.8403:

Deadcell.9052:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Deadcell.9052:

Stop mass zerging everything like a bunch of mindless apes and defend your stuff and you won’t have to worry about any of your stuffs becoming contested.

You have no idea what you’re talking about do you?
If one person can get close enough to a gate to attack it they can contest it themselves, turning off the waypoint for 3 minutes.
Someone with stealth, a bunker build, or doesn’t care if they die can easily accomplish this on any keep or SMC.

Ok so whats the problem with that? With culling now gone and you can see players coming from miles away, if your not keeping an eye on your gates its your own fault if your stuff gets contested. Its also a valid tactic, if you know another server has the majority of its players on one side of the map and no one is defending thier keeps with waypoint’s, hit the door, contest the waypoint, and now you have a ton of time to take a bunch of towers/camps etc.

I don’t think anyone is disputing that contesting a WP is a valid tactic. What is in dispute here is whether or not doing so is entirely too easy.

It is easy, laughably easy, BUT what part of WvW isn’t stupid easy these days? You can just zerg anything and everything down in seconds, but that is a topic for another day.

I admit, I never fully understood the zerg v zerg complaint. It has been my opinion that if you want smaller scale combat, you should be in sPvP. There is no way that maps this large with so high a population cap will not lead to zerging; everyone who plays WvW should understand this.

That said, there are some things that aren’t easy in WvW. Beating a larger zerg in an open field with no siege. Taking Stonemist with brute force against a server that isn’t outmanned. Holding an enemy keep. Commanding well. Commanding well with PuGs that aren’t in Teamspeak.

But just because there ARE things that are easy shouldn’t mean that it’s reasonable for a single player to disable a WP for three minutes and change just by attacking a gate once.

Deadcell.9052:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Deadcell.9052:

Stop mass zerging everything like a bunch of mindless apes and defend your stuff and you won’t have to worry about any of your stuffs becoming contested.

You have no idea what you’re talking about do you?
If one person can get close enough to a gate to attack it they can contest it themselves, turning off the waypoint for 3 minutes.
Someone with stealth, a bunker build, or doesn’t care if they die can easily accomplish this on any keep or SMC.

Ok so whats the problem with that? With culling now gone and you can see players coming from miles away, if your not keeping an eye on your gates its your own fault if your stuff gets contested. Its also a valid tactic, if you know another server has the majority of its players on one side of the map and no one is defending thier keeps with waypoint’s, hit the door, contest the waypoint, and now you have a ton of time to take a bunch of towers/camps etc.

I don’t think anyone is disputing that contesting a WP is a valid tactic. What is in dispute here is whether or not doing so is entirely too easy.

This thread is rife with knee-jerk condescension.

My server has been winning its matchups since Blackgate left Tier 2. When I’m playing (which lately has almost always been in EB), we’ve actually had our keep and SMC waypoints active most of the time. I actually notice swords far more often on the enemy keeps than on ours. So I’m not “QQing” when I say that WP contesting needs to change—if that’s all you’ve got to shoot back with, just keep that round in the chamber for someone else because it won’t work here.

In my view, being able to constantly knock out a WP is a power that a single player on foot should not possess. I don’t mind that the contested mechanic exists, but I do think it needs to be changed. I’m not really keen on the whole “white swords could mean one person, or 24” concept and I can’t say I’m sure why they chose to rework it that way. Waypoints should only be contested if there is an actual threat to the structure in question: e.g. it is under siege, or a gate/wall has taken a certain amount of damage over a certain window of time.

Same thing with defense events. I shouldn’t “earn” wxp just because I built an arrow cart or dropped 2 supply on a wall within three minutes after a thief tagged the gate. I didn’t really do anything to defend the tower any more than the enemy actually attacked it.

That said, I’m pretty satisfied with the overall state of WvW, although I’d be lying if I tried to tell you that I wasn’t looking forward to future updates. I was actually kind of surprised that they didn’t add in some Orb rework with this last patch.

TC Y U NO LET ME HAVE QUENTIN LAKE >.<

Seriously though gg. I tried like 4 different things and couldn’t get in there despite 2 walls being down. I leeroyed, tried to counter treb/cata (then leeroyed again), then dropped ACs and ballistas but still couldn’t get in. That was one of the most committed defenses of a tower that I’ve ever seen. I thought for sure you guys would come after me when I put the screws on Bravost, but you wisely held your ground. Well played today, ladies and gents. I’ll see you later tonight!

Jhawk.1360:

Pretty pathetic that Kaineng and TC have to gang up FA :P They must be pretty bad if they have to combine forces to fight one server. Or maybe we’re just so good that they need to combine their efforts to take us out. Just a thought….. does make you guys seem very weak though…..

-Delune [FA]

I dunno about the other maps, but I command on EB from time to time and I don’t attack FA because they’re FA, I attack them because it is easier to take and hold Anzalias, Speldan and Mendon’s than it is to hold QL, Danelon and Languor; or Durios, Umberglade and Bravost (since that would potentially sandwich us between two foes). When TC was up there last week I went after that real estate just about as often as I do now. The NW red corner is a keep’s worth of PPT and easy to defend if your team is strong in open field combat.

I was in command for eight or nine hours yesterday (tandem with a KO commander from about 10am-12pm EST and then by myself from ~3pm-10pm) and it was my observation that TC was more willing to strike at FA than us. Still, attacking TC was a dicey prospect for much of the day. They had enough strength to make holding their towers difficult, but not always enough to keep us away from them in the open field. I think at some point yesterday I flipped every tower on the map (except Languor) at least once, and there was only a handful of serious forays into our territory from either team. I tried to push mostly TC when I took over between 2 and 3pm, but that NW corner is mighty tempting when you’ve already got a blue tower and camp, are trebbing Durios, and need to kill a few minutes and keep the zerg happy.

tl;dr, it’s nothing personal, I know we need to take points from TC first but sometimes that means being able to exploit FA more quickly than TC can.

Ooh, I saw my first Recruit today, a FAer on EB! Seeing a lot more Assaulters (which isn’t a word) and Raiders now too.