Arbiter is someone who decides, or say, judges (a link to the core class). The Arbiter decides who or what is the ultimate threat, and goes after it. How does that not fit? Because of the traps? Please, how does Reaper imply shouting or Chronomancer imply wells? And seeing that Druid and Tempest are following the one word name pattern, DH is the anomaly here.
The fact of the matter is there is not one good argument for keeping the name besides the whole "high concept " thing which was frankly little better than poking the beehive. The majority of people who voice their opinion wants the name changed. Those who do not speak up just don’t care and will not be affected by a change. And the majority should be appeased before the minority. So I really hope ANet will at least consider making a poll for players to voice their opinion about this matter.
Another argument I would like to add opposing the DH name:
Remove the Dragons completely from GW lore. Do all the class/spec names make sense?
Literally the only thing that would be out of place then would be 2 skills of the Elementalist and the whole DH spec.
Meaning they would only make sense as a standalone class in the context of Tyria. Without that context they make no sense as either a spec or a class.It’s not at all fair to remove dragons from the GW2 lore because they are the lore. It’d be like trying to remove magic from the lore and needing to justify elementalists. The fact is, it doesn’t matter if it doesn’t make sense out of context, because out of context nothing matters. In an alternate universe of Tyria where the Dragons either never existed or never took power, you can bet that this class wouldn’t exist. However, that’s not the case here and it really isn’t debatable.
The only thing that is useful about this particular stance is “what becomes of the Dragonhunters when the Dragons are all gone?” I brought this up in a separate comment many pages back about how they might feel like a villain in a movie/show that actually accomplishes defeating the good guy, and now they’re left saying “well, now what?”.
Also, does this mean that the class should have no place in PvP and WvW, there there are no dragons? Since those places exist in the Mists, you could theoretically end up in a world where there is not event a concept of a dragon.
Another argument I would like to add opposing the DH name:
Remove the Dragons completely from GW lore. Do all the class/spec names make sense?
Literally the only thing that would be out of place then would be 2 skills of the Elementalist and the whole DH spec.
Meaning they would only make sense as a standalone class in the context of Tyria. Without that context they make no sense as either a spec or a class.
Dragonhunter bites the big one as far as relevancy.
Why not ‘Vanquisher’? Heck, at this point ‘Sheriff’ sounds better than Dragonhunter.
“Light Magic Trap Guy” sounds better then Dragonhunter. Their “mature theme” argument is really sad when it is used in the same sentence as the words “dragon hunter”.
It’s specific big game, they are not hunting giraffes. If we are going to break out the dictionaries, then Reaper should be working the fields, not fighting dragons.
“Reaper: one that reaps; especially : any of various machines for reaping grain”
disregard especially, we get “Reaper: one that reaps;”
“Reap: to get (something, such as a reward) as a result of something that you have done”
Reaper in this case gets the souls of enemies he kills.
Another thing in this case Reaper is from the Grim Reaper, not from the field workers.
Dragonhunter is a hunter that hunts big game to purge Tyria from their evil. That’s all.
“Big game: large animals (such as elephants and tigers) that are hunted for sport”
Killing tigers and elephants would do nothing to save Tyria from evil. The Big Game hunter theme is really not making much sense WITH Guardian. For ranger it would be the perfect petless archer spec, but for Guardian it makes no thematic sense.
The Arbiter would continue to build on the Judge theme that Guardian has with Judge’s Intervention, Virtue of Justice, all the of Judgment skills, and traits like Justice is Blind, Supreme Justice.
Building on this Arbiter would require very little amount of work for them. The Arbiter would be the “judge” and he decides that something is a threat to Tyria and they hunt it down. So no need to rework the whole theme, just change the name, rename a few hunter themed traits to judgement or justice or w/e and it’s a done deal, it is a natural progression of the character from a light magic defensive guy to a light magic using guy that seeks out the threat, instead of going from guardian to ranger.
Arbiters don’t hunt anything down, they pass judgment and that’s it. Even if you don’t like Dragonhunter, arbiter is nowhere near where this specialization comes, but there is a potential for them to introduce it with a different elite specialization with much more fitting skills.
But it at least builds on what is already in place, while DH just jumps out of nowhere and doesn’t add to Guardian, they just make a completely new thing.
Mesmers have time magic, so Chronomancer is a natural evolution.
Necromancers have the whole death theme, so Reaper is a natural evolution.
Rangers have nature magic, so Druid is a natural evolution.
Elementalists have air magic, so Tempest is a natural evolution.
Guardians have x, so DH is a natural evolution.Tell me what X is in this case?
At this moment, I’m not making an argument for DH. Like I said earlier, I personally would have liked to see the entire spec go in a different direction, not just the name. However, for what the spec is, it is not a bad name (even though the name is inherently clunky if not bad). I do want that distinction clear.
“X”, in this case, is some sort of furious zeal. It is not a skill set like Chronomancer time magic or Druid nature magic; rather it is a mindset. They’ve come to want the Dragons dead so much that they’re going to do this big hunt to take them down once and for all. The reason this sticks out more is because no other class currently has a name like this. It’s the first class/spec to incorporate a devotion towards doing something in particular, and it might not be the last. There is an evolution if one chooses to see it, and there isn’t an evolution if one chooses not to. The concept is nebulous and that causes issues when it’s the only one of its kind.
Ahh, I didn’t actually mention that I’m not opposed the concept of the spec (longbow/traps, more offense), as I actually like that. But Guardians have NOTHING to do with hunting OR dragons (all the player characters hunt dragons ect.) so the evolution is really difficult to see, imo.
The Arbiter would continue to build on the Judge theme that Guardian has with Judge’s Intervention, Virtue of Justice, all the of Judgment skills, and traits like Justice is Blind, Supreme Justice.
Building on this Arbiter would require very little amount of work for them. The Arbiter would be the “judge” and he decides that something is a threat to Tyria and they hunt it down. So no need to rework the whole theme, just change the name, rename a few hunter themed traits to judgement or justice or w/e and it’s a done deal, it is a natural progression of the character from a light magic defensive guy to a light magic using guy that seeks out the threat, instead of going from guardian to ranger.
Arbiters don’t hunt anything down, they pass judgment and that’s it. Even if you don’t like Dragonhunter, arbiter is nowhere near where this specialization comes, but there is a potential for them to introduce it with a different elite specialization with much more fitting skills.
But it at least builds on what is already in place, while DH just jumps out of nowhere and doesn’t add to Guardian, they just make a completely new thing.
Mesmers have time magic, so Chronomancer is a natural evolution.
Necromancers have the whole death theme, so Reaper is a natural evolution.
Rangers have nature magic, so Druid is a natural evolution.
Elementalists have air magic, so Tempest is a natural evolution.
Guardians have x, so DH is a natural evolution.
Tell me what X is in this case?
The Arbiter would continue to build on the Judge theme that Guardian has with Judge’s Intervention, Virtue of Justice, all the of Judgment skills, and traits like Justice is Blind, Supreme Justice.
Building on this Arbiter would require very little amount of work for them. The Arbiter would be the “judge” and he decides that something is a threat to Tyria and they hunt it down. So no need to rework the whole theme, just change the name, rename a few hunter themed traits to judgement or justice or w/e and it’s a done deal, it is a natural progression of the character from a light magic defensive guy to a light magic using guy that seeks out the threat, instead of going from guardian to ranger.
As if i care about the name of the class. Dragonhunters will still be called “guardians”….Reapers will still be called “necros”.
To be fair, the elites will have their name AND a unique class icon, so you are wrong on that.
Also the argument that Paragon is not going to happen because it’s a title can suuuck it. Reaper happened.
What annoys me the most are the people who go "oh it’s just a name it doesn’t matter ". Well if it doesn’t matter, then let us have the change.
Now I myself would love either Sentinel or Arbiter. Sentinel because it evokes these defensive themes but ccomes off as a tad more aggressive then Guardian. The Arbiter would continue to build on the Judge theme that Guardian has with Judge’s Intervention, Virtue of Justice, all the of Judgment skills,and traits like Justice is Blind, Supreme Justice.
I really love the changes, and they make other guardian elites worth using, imo.
You can’t really justify the name without seeing what the class do first.
Just wait for today’s twitch on the class. Maybe you think the class is cool after you see the skills and mechanic.
The thing is, I actually like what the class does, and it’s mechanics and skills. I just despise the name.
This is not one of those bahhh let me mix outfits threads. Nope. See, a lot of people who know anything about outfits will tell you that the outfit is made out of two parts. The main “body” and the headgear. Now we can currently disable the headgear, and that works fine. But why can we not use the current headgear we have on WITH the outfit?
For example I have the [Inventor’s Sunglasses] on and the [Exemplar Outfit] on. Sadly, they can not be shown both at once. What I suggest is to add a Hide Headgear option in the OUTFITS tab, so it would hide the helm that the outfit provides, but would let us still see the helm that we have on. This will placate the outfits-are-satan-incarnate-thanks-obama crowd by giving some amount of customization to them, and will not require a lot of work from ANet, since we can already hide the helmet of outfits.
Thoughts?
You REALLY had to make another thread about this?
TIL: People will complain about anything.
A lot of other threads were about the Elite Specialization itself, while mine is just about the name. I really have no problem with the skills and other facets of the Spec.
Also, I don’t know if you realize, but a game where “style” and the shade of pink you use for your shoes to look good is important, a spec name does actually matter. I mean, would you play your class if it was named Vomitmancer? I really doubt it. It would still be better then Dragon Hunter.
Paragon
Justiciar
Vanguard
Protector
Arbiter
Sentinel
Warden
Take your pick, all better than what we have now. Considering that realease is quite a bit far away, they can still change it.
Since Anet said one elite spec would get 6 shouts I think it might be us. And I saw some people saying “that makes no sense, shouts are short range bla bla bla won’t work with a bow bla bla bla” well I think they may just double the shout range and that’s it. 1200 shout range, with 1200 weapon range. We can go for damage/support if the stance thing is true, and we can use the long ranged shouts and the (soon to be) baseline targeted consecrations to provide support and control around the field.
EDIT: Adding to that, the crowd pleaser aspect comes with the fact that we would pretty much be Paragons.
You can’t dps when you are dead, therefor tanky gear >>>>>> berserker gear.
Except the people who push for the meta actually know how to play, so they can more often than not survive better then the pvt crowd.
Now, I get the PHIW mentality. I mean it’s a game, I payed for it, I can do whatever. However, this is a multiplayer game. Especially Dungeons and Fractals, that is considered group content, requires cooperation. I’ve seen people actually lie about running meta and then complaining on the forum about how he was running some useless build and got kicked midway because he just could not perform as well as the meta build would have.
If you want the “lf fractal noob friendly” groups, go play that. But when I type “zerk, meta build, food/uti” I actually expect you to be using zerker gear, meta builds and running the required consumables. Don’t come into my group, and then midway through the run reveal yourself to be someone who is “against the meta” and fail every single encounter.
most pug are doing so poorly on boss fight, 5 bearbow probably out dps them.
See, that is because those people are either unskilled or new. A proper group of 2-3 people, who know the game and CAN actually play the meta can run lv50 fractals faster then the group of 5 bearbows could finish lv1. A group (not a pug) of 5 skilled, meta build using players will always, always, ALWAYS be better.
But personally, I feel beta selection should be decided by Anet not GW2.
Do you seriously believe RNG is actally RNG?
After 3 years of not getting any precursor from either the mystic toilet or as a random drop, I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s something account based. You might say I’m just delusional, but after seeing some of my friends getting precursor after precursor it became clear. Coincidences happen a couple times, not a billion times.
FYI I have 6 legendaries and I had to farm all 6. Never got any help from the “RNG gods” (aka Anet).
I’m not even gonna try this key hunting bullkitten because I won’t drop it, that’s for sure, since my account can’t.
I’m not sure you know what random means.
What about having some patience, this is probably not the most important bug atm.
I’d agree with you if they weren’t selling this bugged LS episode in their bundle.
As it is they are selling something that doesn’t fully function.
So I noticed that, on kill effects like the one that refreshes Virtue of Justice on kill does not work in LS instances. Is this intentional or a mistake?
I feel a lot more mobile on a Guardian than on a mesmer and it’s comparable to necro. Guardian has leap skills on two of the 2H weapons and a swiftness boon on the other one. G’s have swiftness-generating shouts. Mesmers have one teleport (a good one, to be sure), one weapon skill that grants limited swiftness once, and a couple of skills that give swiftness a fraction of the time. In addition, nearly all illusion-skills on mesmer require a target, including the one mesmer leap…and that requires two casts (both with channeling and cooldown times).
Guardian wasn’t designed to be as mobile as a thief (or some variations of elementalist), but it’s in a much better state than mesmers.
That said, the issue isn’t whether guards are getting nerfed or not, it’s whether the game is well-balanced or not. In the context of all other changes, I don’t think the ones mentioned by the OP affect the overall balance in the game.
Sure, Guardians can become invincible, they can heal to full in 1 skill, they can summon 4 minions one which has a knockdown, they can get full boons and they can teleport twice AND they can convert all the conditions into boons.
See where Im going with this?
The shouts are not used in the only viable Guardian build. The staff isn’t either. We have Leap and JI. That is all. Having one gap closer on the slowest melee class in the game is nonsense.
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maybe decrease the range when there is no target
for example a guardian’s sword 2 skill. it has a 600 range. lets say when there is no target, it becomes a 300 range. something like that.
but preferably no nerf at all lol..
you can’t teleport at all with no target. With this patch, if you are not in range, WITH target, you will not move at all.
Any links to the patch notes?
Thought so….
It ceases to amaze me that someone can so easily just say “leaked patch notes” and everyone suddenly believes it….
Man, someone is getting a good laugh.
They are not “leaked” they are the one’s the Chinese ANet posted on their own website.
maybe decrease the range when there is no target
for example a guardian’s sword 2 skill. it has a 600 range. lets say when there is no target, it becomes a 300 range. something like that.
but preferably no nerf at all lol..
you can’t teleport at all with no target. With this patch, if you are not in range, WITH target, you will not move at all.
Necromancer still have Locust Swarm, Necrotic Traversal (granted, it’s situational) and Signet of the Locust. Granted, I do not play Necro, but they have these options. Let’s look at the Guardian. They Have Symbol of Swiftness, Save Your Selves and Retreat. Most META builds run GS and something that is not staff, so that’s out. Also since most META builds are Meditation, that means they rely solely on JI for mobility. We have nothing now. Sure we will be able to use it when we are within 1200 range, which 7/8 classes can leave really easily. So we will be left in the dust, and everyone will be able to just outrun us.
Guardians have what you pointed out, as well as a leap with GS. The cooldown for Retreat is shorter than an untraited Spectral Walk cooldown. JI and your sword teleport will STILL be useable; you’ll just have to be within range of your target.
Leap is 600 range, if that 600 doesn’t put us within 1200 we are out of the race. Remember, while we cast Leap they will not be standing still, they will be moving. One dodge puts them 300 away, they WILL get out of range. Retreat is not in the Meditation build which is the build that uses JI the most. JI, Leap and FB are the only mobility skills we have. Had.
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Thief and Mesmer dont have mobility skills that requires target,except steal and mesmer short sword skill (which is in this case good,cause we wont be able to fail anymore).Shadowstep does not require target,so range does not matter,seems to me that this changes are good for thiefs/mesmers,dont know why you people complain about.
Perhaps pistol thiefs gonna have some problems,but im d/d so wont affect me.
We complain because Guardian has no mobility now.
Necro is definitely far less mobile than a guardian. And you’ll still be able to use your teleports; the targets will simply have to be in range.
And one should never expect compensation. You’re not owed anything just because they’re changing something.
Necromancer still have Locust Swarm, Necrotic Traversal (granted, it’s situational) and Signet of the Locust. Granted, I do not play Necro, but they have these options. Let’s look at the Guardian. They Have Symbol of Swiftness, Save Your Selves and Retreat. Most META builds run GS and something that is not staff, so that’s out. Also since most META builds are Meditation, that means they rely solely on JI for mobility. We have nothing now. Sure we will be able to use it when we are within 1200 range, which 7/8 classes can leave really easily. So we will be left in the dust, and everyone will be able to just outrun us.
So Guardians, the least mobile class in the game, are getting their mobility further nerfed in the way of requiring Flashing Blade and Judge’s Intervention to require targets to be in range, otherwise the teleport will not happen besides the upcoming tp skill nerfs.
Are we going to get any compensation for this or are we just supposed to deal with it?
(edited by Arrk.4102)
Ok, some people don’t seem to understand. So here:
A lot of dedicated WvW players don’t really care about PvE. Yet they are still forced to do it for map completion. Now you can say “but it is optional, they don’t have to do it”. So is WvW. You don’t HAVE to finish the world completion. You don’t HAVE to get the star and title. Yet you want to. So put in some effort.
Well I don’t WANT to complete 303 hearts. I still have to, to get the the reward for it.
Number 4 please.
How about something a bit more realistic, not OP, and easier to implement?
Signet of Elements (120s CD):
Passive – Increases Boon Duration by 20%
Active – Refresh all Attunements (Weapon skills cooldowns will not reset). Get Shocking, Frost, Fire, and Earth Aura when activated (you get all 4 but Aura related traits will only proc once).
How about something more elite worthy but in the same vein:
Glyph of Elemental Overload (120 cd)
Active – Refresh all Attunements. Get Shocking, Frost, Fire and Earth Aura when activated. For 10 seconds your Attunements have no cooldown. After the effect ends, all your Attunements go on their full cooldown.
This will let you go all out when you need the extra mile to beat someone, but the trade off is that after the effect end you will be stuck in the Attunement you were in so you will still need to keep track of it.
So guys lets all throw some wild speculations for our eles. Here is my bunch:
1. The Warder
Gains access to new weapon set, Sword and Shield. New set of 6-0 skill that include GW1-style Wards, ward traits that include lower recharge.
While Specilized it removes Conjures from the skill rotation.
This would make my day!
Ele if you want to play the FotM OP class
Is this 2013?
I was just wondering, is the pink ability color just a in game representation(that each class was instantly recognized by their abilities) or is a lore thing? Can an in-lore mesmer make his abilities green or blue or whatever or would they be still pink?