(edited by Astral Projections.7320)
(edited by Astral Projections.7320)
(edited by Astral Projections.7320)
(edited by Astral Projections.7320)
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Attachments:
(edited by Astral Projections.7320)
Reporting players in PvP
My Vial of salt was never so full
[The OP discusses playing PvP and shows a screenshot of insults from one player directed towards him for winning]
ANet Dornsinger
Man, that’s a good deal of salt. Please tell me you used the handy-dandy right-click to report them…
Kurfuerst_
As if that would make a difference. Seen so many people threatening others and saying stuff like OP posted and nothing ever happened to them.
ANet Dornsinger
Never happened to them: Based on what? I doubt any user would gladly and honestly tell you they got actioned, because being caught is embarrassing. I know I wouldn’t tell, and possibly even say that I know a GM to help me get out of ANYTHING. (Which, by the way, you can also report, because knowing a GM is either going to get that GM in trouble for bypassing the rules OR, much more likely, the user is trying to be clever and will get in trouble for claiming to have hook-ups…)There are very, very few things a player can say or do to be immediately and permanently banned from the game. Just because you do not see it does not mean that a user was not actioned. And actions start at being suspended a few hours.
However, at salt levels the height of a rock-salt-mine like in the screenie, chances are that user will be a repeat offender. And that is where things get interesting, Kurfürst, because with each action we have to take, the punishment goes up. Last week we suspended a user who could not understand that PvP isn’t a free pass to behaving like a caveman a suspension for over 1000 hours.
That does mean they will be back, yes. And it also means that, should they not understand how to play nice, they may be actioned again. That’s why, instead of firing back your own insults, the best come back is always a report. They add up.
Lithril
well when two people argue at each other in guild wars 1(entirely different admins) they would write off reporting someone else and you as Mutual argument in pvp like fa or jq…if both parties were guilty both would get warnings and nothing would happen. Here if someone starts an argument then the other argues or name calls then they are both under mutual?
ANet Dornsinger
That really depends on what’s going on.The argument “but THEY started it”, however, stopped working for most of us players 20-40 years ago in the real world, and it’s no different in game. If you (and this is a general you, not a Lithril-you) think ‘defending yourself’ is sending back even worse, you’re a) making things worse and b) may get smacked with the suspension stick as well. (Smaller than a ban hammer, but can hurt just as much in the long run…)
smitske
The only thing is we don’t see anything visibly, nor eperience the abuse toning down. Perhaps you could work on something so that we know our reports are actually being dealt with, some visibility on that it does matter and people who tell you to go hang yourself dont get away with that.
ANet Dornsinger
I do not think that we’ll have space in game for stockages…Right now, the process is:
- We get a report
- We investigate the report
- We determine if there was a provocation (“but they started it”…)
- We check the account’s current standing
- We action OR DO NOT, depending on what we see. (Not every “go kitten yourself” gets a ban.)
I fully understand that one might feel curious and would hope for a bit of Schadenfreude at catching out the other guy, but please also understand that we need to keep things moving along. Stopping each process to write a list on who got actioned when on what isn’t a terribly great idea – and, worse, could lead to folks then being harassed in turn.
The best you can do, for your own salt levels as well, is to move forward. Dude had a go at you. You reported him or her. They’ll get theirs and if you put them on your block list, there’s nothing you need to fear from them again and you can go back to enjoying your game.
GM-PvP (calling GMs on someone to make sure they get wiped out) was a game I played in other games as a GM and it sucked for everyone involved. :\
Strafe_Jog_Jump
Honestly I think an indicator in game as to how often someone has been disciplined (similar to how Steam shows VAC bans, or used to) would help players out.
ANet Dornsinger
I totally get what you’re saying. But as I mentioned with GM PvP: These players would also be targeted for harassment in turn. “Hah, that guy totally gets all riled up easily, let’s see how long he can take if I gank him in WvW!”
In an MMO, it would work a lot differently than it would on, say, Steam, which you mentioned.
Strafe_Jog_Jump
Didn’t think of that. Wouldn’t that balance out over time, though, if people just started harassing those in bad standing?Or would you consider making it so that people in bad standing are segregated from people in good standing, like some games have started doing with people who have been caught cheating?
I appreciate it’s a lot of effort. I know however it would certainly encourage me to take part in competitive PvP, something which I currently have no interest in doing simply because of the current toxicity in PvP.
ANet Dornsinger
I feel your pain. I totally AM on your side and understand the desire to unlock a new form of game mode for yourself.But as a GM I need to look at operation and how players interact in general. If you single someone out or make them a target, you drastically reduce their value as a player and customer. That’s why a human being reviewed these reports and not an algorithm: Someone who is super toxic and calls people names and puts them down on a regular basis will get hit much harder than a guy who had a bad day and simply ‘lost his kitten’, even if these two people said the precise same thing.
Right now, any action I take against Roger, Bob or Sandy are confidential. It’s between them as a rule breaker and us as a rule keeper. A change to that isn’t impossible, but while someone in this is a clear aggressor, they are also still a customer and a fellow player. It’s not something that could be implemented as easily as you suggested, but talking about it is absolutely not something that’s unwarranted.
smitske
I would actually advocate the opposite, an automated program would be a lot better.
ANet Dornsinger
Well, let’s bring out another argument.You’ll find a lot of threads here about “banned for no reason”. Each time one of these comes up, you’ll find users very swiftly pointing to other bans – no matter if they were related or not. And each time you’ll find users complain that we’re overzealous, that we automate bans, that no one observes things or does not take the situation into account.
Your suggestion would pretty much feed users with that argument, no?
-Kahera
Question on this: When you submit a report like this, and the other player continues trash talking to you after you’ve sent it, do you need to submit a 2nd report for you guys to see the chat after the report or is it enough to send the one?
ANet Dornsinger
One report is enough, unless you think a second report would make matters clearer. However, I also am a huge fan for the block command. No need to sit there and have them scream at you, “Talk to the Hand” is much more satisfying once you understand how much it angers such players when they cannot spray their vitriol.
smitske
They can still grief matches where the matchmaking teamed you up, since last time I checked that is not taken into account when matchmaking.
ANet Dornsinger
We were, I thought, speaking about verbal abuse. If you block them, they cannot ping you any longer.As for emotes, well, if someone whoops butt and then /laughs @ … that really is allowed. Sure, it may tick someone off, but some of these things are to be expected in PvP and as I said, we do not action everything that might drive someone’s blood pressure higher. (Else I’d action SO MANY more names than we actually do. My role-player soul demands it, my mantle as a GM prevents it.
)
As for griefing in other forms: Report it, move on. There really is no better medication than being the bigger person.