Its done this way so that perma stealth thieves can’t sit on a point indefinitely with no reasonable way to kill them, especially on a point like Graveyard. It has little counterplay, and the little it does have isn’t exactly interesting or skill based: maybe if I throw enough random AoE kitten all over this point I’ll get lucky and kill him.
D/D and P/P doesn’t seem to have much synergy. I’m not a thief, but Pistol main-hand is about bleed stacking, whereas Dagger mainhand is all bout them big backstabs.
He died to an MM, if he’s talking 1v1 then you need to be smart with your CC, because frankly, as an MM, idgaf if you CC me at random, the build is centered around minions.
What you should be doing as a thief against an MM is constantly kiting. Even if you are playing D/P, go out to range, get the minions close, then jump in at the MM, burst him a bit (make sure to avoid the CC), then pop back out. Make sure you don’t let him stack up cripple/chill, don’t let him CC chain you, and watch the Bone Minions; they do pretty massive damage.
The key thing to do is kite always. You have a ton of ways to move around, so use it. If you don’t let the minions have much uptime AAing you, almost all MM builds will fall apart.
Yes they are. WoC for example is basically a guaranteed kill in a glass build if you land it. Plus the downed pressure is stupid.
A good game company puts its vision before profits. It needs profits to survive, but after that its focus is on realizing its vision for a great game.
They did it with GW1. Different team now, so it might not hold, but one thing ANet is, is stubborn. I don’t see them doing anything but what their vision is, the real question is are the capable of reaching that vision, and is that vision good enough?
The “risk” of wells has little to do with proximity in most builds; you want to be in that range anyway.
It has to do with how easy they are to negate. Unless your aim is perfect, anyone can just dodge roll in the proper direction and have taken at most two ticks of your well. So instead you need to really time your wells properly, otherwise your left with a pretty spot on the ground doing nothing until it comes up again in 40s.
Just realized I didn’t really “contribute yet”. Been so many of these its hard to keep track.
More minions. Condition minions, self-siphon minions, tank minions, “spam” minions, etc. They have a ton of different types of minions they could have, and then each minion should have strong utility purpose after summoning, to further support non-MM builds taking minions. In a few months I’d love to see well-necros taking Bone Fiend, Burst Necros taking Bone Minions, tanky necros taking Shadow Fiend or Blood Fiend, etc.
I want to see a trait that makes self-siphoning work through DS, if they don’t eventually just give us some form of healing going through DS.
I also want to see more high-risk high reward skills being added, especially ones that involve life costs, and support ones. BiP used to be a really cool skill, in that you hurt yourself to make teammates OP.
We’ve already had it, it was too strong at the time. Even if it wouldn’t be strong now, its not remotely in line with ANet’s vision of us, so it won’t happen.
It would make sense to give minions bleed stacks. Similar to how phantasms stack bleeds. Im surprised there arent traits to give minions fury. Has anyone seen a minion crit btw?
Main thing I want is a cleave melee weapon. Id definately be playing my necro a lot more if I could cleave.
All minions have innate Crit chances, and the higher damage ones hit pretty kitten hard when they do crit. Flesh Wurm, with increased damage, crits for 1.4k if I remember correctly, similar to Flesh Golem’s crits.
PVE Exploit = Hot fix + Ban + removed items that players won
So I had typed out a nice big response to this, but then I timed out of my account and lost it, and frankly its not worth the effort a second time (yay for kitten forum system).
Anyway, the TL;DR is don’t kitten about PvE when you very obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. There have been exploits that were common knowledge and abused by everyone for months and not a kitten person saw as much as a slap on the wrist for it. PvE is a game of being the first to exploit to get ahead, and as long as you don’t destroy the entire game’s economy in the process, not a single thing will happen to you.
You mean just like every other balanced skill in the game?
It’s like saying: “Fire Grab is competely useless if the enemy has any kind of avoidance up”
Yes? Isn’t that the whole point? People saving their few dodges for more powerful attacks?
People have gotten used to things being far too easy in GW2. And even the idea of not being able to instant-hit their opponent with unblockable skills, they start to call “useless”.
Ah yes, I forget how often I hit a 10k Putrid mark… oh wait. Edit: just realized that was a PvE video I saw that in. Anyway, point is skills that are very easy to avoid need to have very strong effects to make up for it. Meteor Storm, Fire Grab, 100b, are all examples of this. Necro staff doesn’t contain any such thing.
You’re comparing marks, 3 of 4 of them being fairly mediocre as far as per-hit effects go, to a skill that can win a fight just by landing it, because of how much damage it does. Next you’re going to come here and say “well yeah, but 100b is really easy to dodge, so marks should be to!”.
If you are going to make marks as easy to dodge as something like Fire grab, then make them as strong as fire grab. But they aren’t, not even close.
(edited by Bhawb.7408)
Nononon, if you made minions scale to stats – bunker MM will die in pvp.
He asked for the damage of their conditions to scale, which is already the case, so it wouldn’t do anything.
i wanted more combo field for warriors months ago. that would give more play more survibility but anet did not consider
Because warriors get finishers out the kitten . More finishers = less fields, more fields = less finishers, or you get a balance of both.
OH D 5 is an amazing ability…
Ridkitten OP
And no they don’t. Take any thief build, watch what happens if you aren’t stealthed and stand still. You die, nearly instantly. They are insanely squishy, so that’s why they get all the dodging, if they don’t dodge even my bunker MM build can kill them in a single rotation.
And how do they get every tool? They don’t have tons of boons, their only defensive mechanics are based around never allowing themselves to get hit (and one of them doesn’t actually do anything but make you invisible, you can still be hit), their high damage bursts require them to get in melee range, while still being the squishiest class in the game. They just frankly aren’t that great unless you are roaming WvW, or you’re pressing the kitten out of 3 in tPvP. Otherwise, its really good players that make them work.
Off-hand dagger is already absolutely amazing. Not that I’d complain if it got LF on top, but it isn’t a weak weapon at all, in any part of the game, in any build.
Warriors are the easiest class in the game to kite.
Hating simplicity is not the same as disliking high reward low risk builds. Having very easy to play, low risk low reward builds is completely healthy, and in fact generally necessary for games that are new player friendly. But right now the easiest builds tend to be the highest performing, or high enough that the risk of using other builds generally isn’t worth it.
Um, dont get me wrong, but arent PvP-Players already the only ones spending “real” money in this game, as every PvE Player is able to buy gems via gold, while the only way for PvP-Players to get gems is to buy them with money?
No. While you “can” buy gems with gold, it costs 41.7g (with live exchange rates) to get 800 gems. So yeah its possible, but it certainly would be really expensive, and most casual players (the majority of the fanbase) can’t afford it.
Coefficients are scalar multipliers. Meaning whatever stat is in consideration gets multiplied by that number, and that is its value for the skill in question.
For example, if a skill has a .4 healing coefficient, it gets additional healing added to its base according to 40% of your healing power.
So a 1.0 damage coefficient means all your power gets added.
Warriors are the kings of conditions. I don’t think any other condition based build can beat them, maybe condi mesmer.
The reason is, you can transfer conditions back to your foe, not just remove them.
However, warriors got Berserekr stance which is a 10 sec godmode..
They get 10 seconds of immunity to applications, old conditions stay on, but except for that they don’t have a lot going for them against a Necro in a condi v condi fight. They need to burn through 20k HP (a hell of a lot more with full LF) in ten seconds, with conditions alone, against builds that can still have tons of removal (even if the transfering doesn’t work).
And thats still 1v1. Necros are the undisputed king of conditions overall. At most they lose out in very specific situations where niches are needed.
We were never weak in 1v1 conditions, nor were we ever that far behind in any kind of condition race. It had nothing to do with our condition application in general, it was that we couldn’t get our damage to stick a lot of the time, with only 1 source of meaningful DPS to a team (bleeds) that were pretty quickly removed. In fact, this would have still been fine, if not for the fact that we also required tons of babysitting to accomplish anything and live.
But still, you didn’t see condi warriors, mesmers, eles, or frankly any full DPS condi build except engineers at that time either, and that was because HGH was broken and they could be tanky and have huge DPS with burning at the same time. And even then, our 1v1 was pretty good, it was getting focused in team fights that killed us.
The one thing I disagree with is the idea that making more active traits would mitigate FOTM builds. People reroll to the FOTM build even if its “hard” to play, because they instantly assume that its easy to play, and therefore, even when they totally suck at it, they decide to play it anyway, without realizing how terrible they are.
Just because you make builds a bit harder to play through active traits, does not solve FOTM. FOTM will always and forever be an issue, there is quite literally not a thing you can do to solve it. Even if they reached perfect balance, there would still remain favorite builds that cycle through according to the game’s meta at the time, becoming FOTM according to the meta (like CC warriors became FOTM to deal with all the condi spam).
Additionally, Evan has been credited with a few too many accomplishments. What I mean here is: Why wasnt another person working on problem b, c, d… while Evan tackled A? Instead we just waited for a short eternity for him to work his way down the stack, apparently.
They likely have a number of their people working on behind-the-scenes bigger things. For example, custom arenas and spectator mode probably took a lot of coding. The new rewards system is probably taking a ton too. So while Evan is a bit more public and getting recognition (which is awesome), its very likely that others are still putting in work, but they are doing projects that don’t get the kind of big support that Evan’s might.
TL;DR – Evan is the quarterback, all the other programmers are line-men. Or if you’re not American, Evan is the striker, everyone else are defenders.
PvE/PvP linking is necessary, and I think ANet finally is realizing it. They need to stop making such a big divide between the two game modes, and make it so people want to play every part of the game, not just one.
I think one of the biggest things they could do is add in far, far more skin-type things into the cash shop. LoL is basically carried by skin and champ sales, I realize that its being worked on, but I think it needs to be more than simply just armor.
For example, you do not understand the amount of money I will throw at you if you made more skins for summoned AIs. Also, I think its smart that if you plan on monetizing PvP better, that at least in the beginning do not make it PvP only. Get the PvE crowd to help carry you while PvP is still significantly lower. Don’t do too many things that only one group will want, but keep making things that everyone has access to, and wants.
Yes. The key now to playing a warrior that is full glass is using the zerker stance to negate their damage/control, then using mass CC and damage to burst them down while they can’t do anything.
Make one of each, go to heart of the mists, check out the cultural skins on your character, see what you end up liking most.
Or if you’re into lore, Sylvari, I hear they have the best storyline.
Other than that, its pretty much just looks/racialsthatnobodyeveruses.
Gaise, didn’t pretty much this exact same thread just die a day or two ago?
Don’t give necros vigor, it doesn’t fit our design at all. Give us something that requires aggression, involves skill, and can still fill our non-boon heavy attrition style without slapping a boon on us. Its perfectly doable, and better than a lazy fix.
The “condition necro>other condition classes” isn’t so much that we are better at conditions (although we are, right now), but its more that if a condition necro loses to any condition build in a 1v1, they should be ashamed and reroll. Plague signet, deathly swarm, and Putrid mark all make a mockery of your condition application. Consume conditions can gobble down a full condition burst and then heal you for massive HP. Well of Power is essentially a middle finger to any condition build as well.
Problem with 1v1ing a condi necro as any condi class is that every time you apply a condition to us, you essentially say “here, throw this back at me”; everything you put on us will not just come back, but will come back and then be made 10x more devastating with burning, poison, weakness, blind, chill, stacksonstacksonstacks of bleeds, and then a chain fear for lulz.
I would imagine that Necro you ran into was probably, a very, very, very, very good player. Because Necro’s against a warrior with the normal CC build is a tough fight, since we struggle to react to chain CC.
Either that or he just caught you off guard and he was a FULL zerker with rage on crit proc Necro that would put out some serious damage in an extremely short time frame
He isn’t a CC warrior if he’s running conditions.
Read the forums for 10 seconds, and tell me that 90% of the ideas aren’t either impossible, stupid, or would involve very expensive and time consuming reworks.
While we’re at it, PvP can round up its best players and GvG against top GvG groups. Argument goes both ways, both sides are stupid if they think GvG and sPvP are comparable.
You do realize ANet has said for a while that they wanted to bring Guild Halls back into the game? It was just something they were going to add post-launch.
You do realize that Marks would still be large enough to almost cover an entire node, and with the amount of vigor and endurance regeneration decreased, marks would still be incredibly powerful in teamfights.
Difference would be that people could actually choose to get hit my some of the lesser painful marks, and try to block or dodge the powerful ones.
Marks aren’t large enough to cover an entire point unless you get greater marks, which no one gets anymore.
You already have the chance to dodge the biggest one, now that it has had a fairly obvious animation added, and still has a 3/4 second cast time. Though they definitely need more readability, especially with a bit more obvious difference in casting animations, the things suggested here would make marks completely irrelevant to any player that had any kind of avoidance up.
My suggestion: never use offensive wells without CC. Ever. You need at least dagger main-hand to even consider running wells, otherwise you’re basically saying “I take wells for downed pressure” which generally isn’t enough in your team unless you have massive spike damage from other sources, and then you run and pop down three wells and go “TROLOLOLOL TRY TO RES HIM NAO”.
What is your goal with this build? I feel like its doing too much at once, and none of it well (hue).
Don’t even try to compare thieves and Necros, we are so vastly different of classes its impossible. QQ all you want about stealth, but I’m sure Thieves would love to have (even with the unbelievably low estimate by the devs), base 30k HP with full LF. Or access to massive amounts of AoE damage.
We are different classes, there is very little areas of comparison between us.
If they brought back Shade it would only work while in death shroud, you know that HP bar that you can only stay in for so long?
Not saying Shade would be balanced, but it could be interesting to see again, now that the problems that originally made it OP have been removed.
He could give an exact date and get crucified if he’s off by one patch, or he could give a rough estimate and get crucified for being too vague. Which would you do?
I’m fine with how the devs are doing, I was just poking fun at the fact that they really don’t (and can’t) say dates.
Actually that’s very much wrong. Pro players from GW1 still play to this day (post-GW2-ocalypse).
And yet GW1 was so inactive in PvP they made the decision to close down parts of it. There are people that still play Runescape competitively, it doesn’t make Runescape a good PvP game, and it doesn’t show anything about how many people might have left Runescape, it just shows that there are people who get completely stuck on one game and refuse to leave it despite how bad it has gotten.
This is the same issue we have with earning glory and rank points. Revamping the way this works will be part of our rewards restructuring.
Any hint on when that’s coming (roughly)?
soon™
The reason why I want those things is that because face-tanking has little to do with skill. Without consistent stability, dodges, invuln, you are pretty much eating burst regardless what your strategy is, and thus fights just come down to if your stats/build is good enough to outlast the damage, instead of having something you can actually do inside the fight, skill based, or reactionary, that can mute some of the damage to turn the tide.
Face tanking doesn’t have to be non-skill based, its just about how they implement it. Frankly, the way they’ve implemented damage avoidance is even less skillful, how much skill does it take to press 3 on a thief, with constant dodging? Yet on other classes, the abilities are much more well designed.
It all comes down to how they do it, and I don’t want them to band-aid fix us by slapping vigor, stability, and other boons all over our skills and call it a day, killing all of our flavor in the process.
I’ve always wanted to be one, they seem like they’re really fun. I just wanted to know if you guys had some tips on being a necromancer because they seem really complex and hard to play to their full potential.
So what is the best weapon set for leveling in your opinion? I’ll try all of them and decide for myself, I just want some input. What are good beginning traits, skills, etc? Anything you feel that I should know! It would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Use minions to level, along with staff. It makes it very very easy.
If players had exploited in pve to get gold/karma/levels they would have this stripped (at least I’ve seen this or even bans given in other games). Also, usually when exploits are found in most mmos I’ve played they are fixed extremely quickly, even with server rollbacks etc.
Not true. It depends on how obvious abuse was, how long it was, easy to track, etc. Things like karma-weapon glitches at launch, where people bought thousands of weapons for far less than it was supposed to sell for then selling them back made tons of money and were banned.
However things like CoF p1 fence-hopping glitch to get 4 chests (and completely cheese your way out of a boss fight and make the end fight even easier) wasn’t fixed for weeks, and to my knowledge there weren’t any bans handed out, nor anything taken away. And that was something that gave people in game gold and items, not essentially worthless rank/glory (at least for now).
They’ve actually put out quite a bit of useful information over the past few months, compared to the time between the beginning of the game and then, where we basically saw… nothing.
Because waiting 4 months wasn’t long enough. Because the tiny 4k viewers turning into 1k isn’t sad. Because top players quitting is progress. Because the thousands of upset players isn’t enough. Because it’s so hashtagWorth
Because every single thing they say can and will be used against them. Want devs to post on the forums and keep open with you? Then don’t be a kitten when you don’t get what you want. kitten happens, plans change, but if the devs know that if they ever post anything on the forums, and then something happens, that they will be abused over it, guess what? They stop posting.
Someone dug up a 25 day old thread to complain about the devs. That isn’t helpful, isn’t constructive, all it does is make it even harder for them to be open about what they are doing, or risk the wrath of keyboard warriors.
So sad..False hopes are bad…I wonder if even 15th oct will be the date…
This. This is why the devs can never post anything they are ever working on. This is why we never get dates. Because of posts like this. Congratulations.
The bigger problem is understanding why they’ve drawn this line, when in a lot of ways it doesn’t make sense other than “we want every class to be different”.
They want Necromancer to be an aggressive, always-in-the-fight, sustained damage class. That means high in-fight attrition, lots of offense, lots of sustain based on making enemies weaker, etc.
My question is this: why do you want stability? Or vigor? We want this for a few reasons: to be able to actually do the above class-design; to be able to survive huge burst and get past CC to get to our target. Why do we need those things in specific though? Why do we need to dodge damage, instead of being manly-men (or women), and face-tanking their best damage while beating their face in? Why should we worry about being CCed, instead of eating it up like and then after start serving out knuckle-sandwhiches for dessert?
The problem with all of these threads is they are far too simple thinking. Yes ANet could have made one class, given it a bunch of buffs, vigor, dodging, etc, and had us all play the same class on the same build against each other. But we don’t want that. I don’t play the Necro so I can dodge abilities, or so I can walk through CC like a Guardian, I play Necro to play that unique playstyle. So give me the ability to deal with things in a uniquely Necro way, instead of these boring already done methods. If I wanted to play a Guardian, I have one sitting there ready to go. I log on to my Necro for a reason.
Ah, then it’d be because most whirls hit many times on many targets. For example the Guardian whirl can one-shot himself on Phantasm mesmers, but also with a dark field on top of himself he’d heal for stupid amounts. Especially since all whirls are AoE and multi-hit, it tends to scale really well.
Depends on how your build its set up. It shouldn’t be easy to kill your minions without really going for it. You have 3 ranged and 3 melee, assuming full heal/utility/elite minions and the standard non-fiend setup. All 3 ranged should be in different areas from each other, and of the three, one has pretty massive HP, and the other two are basically death-fodder anyway.
So it should be fairly difficult to kill off all your minion sin a PvP fight, unless they actually go after them. If they go after them though, you should be positioning yourself so that they can never cleave more than the melee minions, and either one ranged, or you. It makes it very hard to kill them all in a timely enough fashion to kill you.
Besides that, you need to be using proper CC managing, and know how to burst. Fighting a good MM 1v1 shouldn’t be easy for any class, and should be near impossible for most non-1v1 builds.