Don’t need full MM, just use Flesh Golem.
Staff #4- blast = only on mark radius, and what does it blast? = useless (Despite displaying a successful blast finishing effect message, initially casting the mark on a combo field does not actually cause any such effect)
Bone fiend- projectile (x2 per attack) = useless
Flesh Wurm – projectile and blast finisher (on skill/sacrifice use) =usekitten ne Minions- blast finisher (x2 assuming you can pop both before they die)- they can also self-combo if using death nova = the most useful, and that says it all
Necrotic grasp – projectile = uselessTry this: stand in an open area.. lay down your field.. Blast it without minions..
yeah.. me too..
What does staff 4 blast…? The thing you put it on. Yes it needs a trigger, yes that sucks, but you can still very easily get finishers on it in combat.
Bone Fiend/Flesh Wurm = all my wut? Dark finishers give them +200 per projectile damage and healing, poison makes them spam poison, whatever field your allies put down makes them spam that. Those two have the fastest projectile finisher spamming in the game, at 3 every 4 seconds. Yes Wurm’s blast is useless, oh well.
Bone minions should never NOT be popped. If they are dying on their own, you should remove them from your bar, as well as every other minion from your bar, detrait every minion trait you have, and respec, because you aren’t cut out for using minions. They have a 2x 16 or 20s CD blast finisher that can SELF COMBO with Death Nova (each one combos with its own death nova), for massive poison and weakness uptime, AoE.
The problems with our combo setup is:
We should have more. Having low finishers is fine, but we can still have very low fields compared to Warriors, who have finishers with nearly every CD if they want. Or they should give us just one or two more finishers. Keep it balanced, but it really isn’t right now, although close.
Little target-less finishers.
For what appears to be a setup for us to have tons of fields, we have very little field variety. Its all poison and dark, with one ethereal/light. It’d be nice to see at least Ice see its way in there.
Compared to any other class our damage versus objects is so low..
Does anyone have any idea to add damage versus objects?
Flesh Golem
They want to be able to pre-fight buff. Unless you bring bone minions (and are stuck with otherwise useless utilities in the situations you’d need pre-buffing for), you can’t help at all with pre-fight buffing.
Ignore them, even if they deal 1 damage each before dying, they’ve made it 4 damage less than you have to deal yourself when fighting Lupi.
Really, I’d be fine if they just gave us one or two added finishers OR gave us more varied and just plain more combo fields. I’d be fine if we were the counter-warriors in terms of fields/finishers, the problem is the way that they have put our fields/finishers set up, is that its almost all on utility skills.
Why is this a problem? You get 4 utility skills, and 10 weapon skills. So I think it warrants us getting a bit of an updated touch. Not a big one, we don’t need a finisher on every skill like some people suggest, nor do we even need any more finishers, but we do need more of one or the other.
Andele, what the kitten did you make me watch…
Running 30/0/0/10/30 (with wells for skills) I don’t have any problems taking out MM Necros since they’re just standing still on capture points. I’m sure it would be a different story if they could run around more.
Might want to face decent MMs then, before you make a decision.
I’ve found that condi necros with Epidemic are really the only hard necro v necro matchup any of my MM builds have, and even then its a skill matchup, although I’d consider it in their favor now that Putrid Mark is bugged.
I’ve never felt all that concerned in a 1v1 against power necros though, they almost never have the ability to fight the CC that we put out, whereas their CC back against us is negligible.
That is fine. Not every trait needs to be a must-have in every build; having a few that are niche, so long as they are good in that niche and that niche is a real niche (not just some crappy build that you made and call it a “niche” build because it sucks in 99% of situations).
But still, a 5k AoE heal is going to be quite good for support. PvE it might not be worth a lot, but that is a great heal for zerging, and for PvP support. I know for sure that I am going to be trying it out for all of my minion builds that I am using Cleric/Shaman gear in.
I hope that you know that that is my joke… and im still giggling just as much as i did since release about it (if you dont believe me, check the forum history or the early BoC podcasts, black sperm wiggle and the floaty singing grapentrails were first actually referenced as that there).
All credit goes to andele for ruining Shadow Fiend for everyone. It was he who originally pointed out the sperminess to me, and I have never failed to pass on the hilarity.
And I’m fine with the current minion design BUT I hope they have some more variety when it comes to later minions, and also a bit more originality (as in, stop making flesh sacks that look like real mobs in game).
I think a good trait would be 30 in Blood Magic, that allows siphons to heal through DS (maybe some other whatevers to make it worth 30 points). Also, it would make Blood Fiend SOOO much better if he could heal through DS.
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As long as the necro doesnt heal himself its not that worth.
We do, we “heal” our DS. It’ll still be a really strong group-support, and I am for sure testing it in my minion builds.
Still think that normal swords, dual wield ofc, would be the best, Cleave, chill, “leap” (not a real mobility one) and a frenzy cc attack.
Make a target-needing “leap” (like Dark Path kind of is), and I’d see them putting it in.
Because there is something comical about a spectral sperm.
Axe is a great weapon for soldier amulet MMs, actually. Gets the most use out of Axe 3’s retal, and stacks high Vuln on its own, as well as 2 being a decent source of siphoning. Also you don’t always want to stack melee range with the minions, makes it a lot harder to cleave both of you down at once.
I’m 100% for more visibility/telegraphing from the marks, even if they aren’t buffed at all, simply because it makes the game better (if they end up too weak just buff them). But giving them a post cast activation time of 1/4s is far too forgiving. That is 1s to respond to a skill, and 1/4 to respond even if you already completely kittened up. How are you supposed to land a mark on a ranger or thief spamming evades with that? They can get hit, and still not get hit, that’s ridiculous.
If they do make the change, they would need to make marks a lot stronger to compensate. And tbh 4 isn’t a strong skill anymore. Its weaker than dagger OH 4 in team fights, its just slightly more reliable on the removal.
Very interesting. That would potentially allow you to double the skill’s healing, or close to it, with Cleric’s gear.
It’s funny. All the people that are against the Necro marks don’t realize that a 1/4th second activation time is NOTHING compared to Elementalist Staff skills. Literally. Nothing. I would kill to only have to wait 1/4th of a second for my skills to hit. Current necro staff can hit you before the mark even appears. That’s silly.
Give me the damage of Meteor storm and we can talk about bumping up the activation time.
All staff marks have already a nearly 1 second cast time (3/4ths second) with a big hand-wave movement. If you can’t dodge in 3/4s then that is on you. The problem with them is that 3 of them are very similar movements, they should change them like Reaper’s mark so each mark gets a unique cast animation so you can actually decide whether you want to dodge or not.
Other than that, you are taking overall pretty weak (per use) weapon skills, and making them impossible to land against anyone with a functional brain.
So? The point is someone was able to solo him in Rabid gear, which shows that OP should be able to handle Lupi 5v1.
Its PvP, rerolling takes all of 10 minutes. Heck, if you aren’t maxed out on character slots it doesn’t even hurt you.
I’m so confused. Are you seriously suggesting that you change your traits to do Super Adventure Box????
Yes cause its the players fault they arent interested so you get no resources..
Is there any hidden quality that i miss in Anet as a company that their game’s playerbase has to put up with unfinished bad content?
Make it worthwile (get the resources) and people will come.
The players in general arent obliged to do anything..you just have to take that bet with spvp and invest
I believe the point was more that if he’s interested, why would he just wait until the day after, purposely not supporting the event? If you are interested in the information, just watch the event (mute it during matches and watch Cops if you want), and get the information then, which will actually give more support to GW2 → more money → more resources → better game.
Or find someone who does want to watch the event (there are plenty) and have them tell you when the relevant things to you are coming on, so you only watch what you want.
I think the point was more: if you support the game it’ll get better, instead of purposely not supporting them in annoyance (justified annoyance I agree) and screwing yourself over indirectly in the process.
Assuming you’re wanting to blend into minions, just make a smallest possible height asura and use brown colors.
Considering someone solo’d Lupi, I’m assuming you can 5v1 him.
Reality is MM has a ton of variety. Want to run conditions? Go for it, you can run tanky setups (conditions need relatively little investment in PvP) or glassier setups with Carrion. Want to run power? Go for it. Want to be tanky? Feel free. Glassy? Yep thats fine too.
Here is the general breakdown of how the different things influence your decisions:
“Bruiser” setups are generally home bunkers, because they deal fairly high damage paired with good bunkering ability. Soldier, Shaman, Cleric work here.
Glassy setups are team-fighters. Conditions will be for AoE damage and support, power will be for anti-bunkering (kill their bunker). You’ll deal high damage, and still be pretty sustainable, but more weak to burst. Carrion, Rabid, Berzerker, Knights all work.
Full tanky setups are for team-fighting, and generally so you can allow your team’s Guardian to roam (you’d be surprised how strong this is). Soldier, Shaman, Cleric.
If you’re going to be conditions of any kind, you will be using Staff and Scepter. If you’re going power, you have an option between staff, axe, and dagger, depending on your own taste, playstyle, and what you are planning to do. I’d warn you that if you’re running glassier you better bring staff, only bring dagger if you’re planning to be on point a lot, or want to anti-bunker.
Off-hands are entirely swappable. If you need more condition removal, bring dagger OH. If you want a bit more speed to get into fights, and more control in the fights, bring OH warhorn (especially if you are bunkering, you can interrupt heals). If you are anti-bunkering, are any kind of glassy build, or just want more damage, run OH focus.
Runes/Sigils are, again, open. If you want a leeching setup (a favorite of mine), run 4x Vamp runes with one of the two siphon sigils (one on each set, pick up the on-crit if you have high crip, on swap otherwise). If you aren’t using 30 in Blood, or want more removal anyway, run Lyssa. If you’re condition, Geomancy sigils are great for bursting.
And healing power will not help itself with just the vampiric master. If you run healing power, you should not be running Blood Fiend, and you want some other healing sources, whether it be just regen spam, or traited heals. Well of Blood + Healing power is insane though.
Basically all I’m saying is that minions have a ton of variation possible. You can play tanky, glass, or in between. You can play full siphons, or you can run team support healing. You can go conditions or power, you can be home bunker or monster team-fighter. Its all up to what you want to do.
I think we do have a role to fill for support, its just up to ANet to make it worthwhile.
That role is sustained healing (which we do very well) and offensive support via condition spam. However, as we all know, sustained healing isn’t that necessary in general right now (burst damage generally wants burst healing), and condition support just isn’t that needed either because of how bosses work. Not that its bad, but in general it isn’t really needed. However if they make bosses harder, and make them more susceptible to conditions, then I see it becoming very helpful.
Of course you’ll have a weakness. But warriors actually get a tool, in one easy form to help them deal with that: Berzerker Stance. It isn’t a full counter, but it still gives you a long duration immunity to your biggest counters. That is an easy access, at least semi-skill based setup that involves play/counterplay on both sides. That is good design.
What do Necros get? We get ONE trait 30 deep into Soul Reaping to help deal with CC. What we need is an easier way to handle it without completely kittening our build. I don’t want a full counter to you where I press a button and everyone dies. I just want something that can be put into a build, with a reasonable cost (like a utility slot, because thats what those things are for), without gimping my entire build.
Or they could fix warriors, and basically every class that has very limited options.
I’m not arguing that warriors need to be nerfed or buffed, or CC needs to be nerfed or buffed. I’m saying that certain classes simply have far too limited of ways to deal with it. No one should have to spec their entire build to be able to play the game, which is what Necros have to do if we get clipped by a single CC ability. I shouldn’t have to spend 30 trait points (which does not give me a very strong build in general) just so I can expect to be able to click my skills and actually expect them to cast.
Same can be said of a number of mechanics. There are a few things (AoE, conditions, CC, buffing) that can be mindlessly spammed too easily with almost no counterplay depending on what class you are playing. That isn’t good game design, and it isn’t fun.
Necros have Foot In The Grave. Try making a build focused on Death Shroud. I can’t say for certain that it will be effective seeing as I don’t play the class, but I have encountered Necros with it that are very hard to focus down.
This is just an outsider looking in but lets say you go 30 into Soul Reaping and take the traits 2, 7, and 11. You’ll have very frequent access to stability, and even a minor trait that gives you Spectral Armor at 50% HP. Combine that with a stun break and you would be fairly resistant to CC. Make it a power build and you’ll probably be able to overwhelm Healing Signet.
As I said though, just a theory. I have no interest in playing Necro, I just know how their mechanics work so that I can counter them as a Warrior. Yes, you do have to drop 30 points and do Power. That’s counter play. Do you want to be able to run all conditions and be able to counter CC as well? Just because you don’t want to change your build doesn’t mean viable counters don’t exist.
You shouldn’t need to spend 30 trait points and play one very specific build to be able to play PvP. That is an option to deal with CC, it’d be nice if we could do more than be forced into a single build type because we have no other ways to handle CC.
And this shouldn’t be true for just Necros (elementalists know what its like being forced into one build), you shouldn’t have only one option to deal with something, that isn’t skill based, it isn’t in-game counterplay, it isn’t fun.
Re-Necro changes:
No thanks to staff change unless it accompanies subsequent buffs to account for the fact that its harder to land them. Staff is a good weapon, but it is far from OP. Reaper’s mark is the only really strong thing there, and it already has a cast time for you to dodge, why do you need another 1/4s to make our marks less useful? I’m all for increasing readability, but do it through animations.
Also, it means I might as well just swap out of staff if I ever face a thief or ranger, because I know I’m never landing a mark.
With minions, their AI doesn’t need improving. Take it from someone who literally only plays with minions, they are working fine now as far as AI is concerned. Any other changes would be things like allowing them to walk over pebbles, or increase how high they can “step” with elevation changes.
Is 30 bad for PvE? No. Is it good though? No. I use 15 atm because I run a full glass cannon build and the life siphoning that I get over time is worth it, compared to the extra 15 in either death magic (no point), or soul reaping (no point).
But in general you don’t need all the healing over time that dropping all of 30 points into BM will get you, and it will hurt your DPS, which right now is king of all things.
We do have group support, we always have, it is just less wanted because ANet has bad boss design.
I have never once been kicked from a group for being a Necro, from anything (I don’t do fractals though). I have had people QQ up until I single-handedly wipe an entire room of trash mobs, or am one of two left alive Plague form tanking a group of mobs while the other guy goes around healing the rest.
I get the most QQ from CoF p1 speed runners, and even then I can keep up just fine.
Edit: not saying it doesn’t happen, but I don’t think its a huge issue where you will never find a group because of it.
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2. has a huge caveat though. While yes every class can condi burst, not a single class can do it as well as a 30/10/whatever build can, with the right setup. We get 15 bleeds, burning, fear, and a clusterkitten of conditions on top. You have to stun break, and have a lot of cleansing (at least 6 I think to get to the bleeding) to get rid of a full burst, although you should very rarely absorb a full burst until the end of the fight, when you’ve already lost.
4. Depends on the class. Some classes literally have nothing they can do in their general builds, such as Mesmers, others can do quite a lot, like Warriors. Hard to say without knowing what you play. If you’re facing a Necro with Geomancy runes and the Enfeebling Blood on DS-entry, staying out of melee range gets rid of 8 bleeds and a weakness, which is a lot of damage avoided. Also, aggressing on them before they can do anything (with lots of CC) can stop them from effectively bursting you, as they can’t fully burst without some cast times.
Other than that, if you can negate fear (either with stability or predictive dodging) their burst gets way weaker. And pack cleansing. Like, lots of it, you can’t have too much cleansing.
It works like a shadowstep right now. This includes a lot of buggy shadowstep crap. But its still the best shadowstep that I know of because it doesn’t require LoS.
ANet still is going for a AAA esport. But anyone who is being entirely realistic with themselves (even those in ANet) realize that “big-time” competitions are at least a year down the road, but most likely further.
I am guessing 2014 we will see the competitive scene pick back up after rewards are changed and balance gets more ironed out, and then maybe 2015 is when we actually see big #eSports coming in.
Espoooooooooooorts!
wellllll……….. In GW1 there were builds that were hard counters to other builds….. GW2 follows the same suite.
Counter CC with stability or your own CC. Or simply LoS and use condi durations to kill your attacker.
If your opponent is so invested in CC they are going to be slow , high toughness, high vitality. I suggest not doing a 1v1, rather get help from a teammate. There is no shame in that since PvP in this game is “team” based.
“Stability? What is that?” – 90% of Necros. Why? Because we get one source of stability, if we are power builds that are happy with dropping 30 points into a trait line.
They do need to revamp all of the sPvP rewards system, and also connect the two completely separate sides of the game better. PvErs should get something (more than easy achievement points) out of PvPing, and PvPers shouldn’t feel like they can’t do anything in PvE because they are still level 2 with no gear or anything.
I agree it should be increased by a bit, I have always wanted that.
It’s odd, hammer Warriors were able to do basically the exact same thing in GW1 and I don’t remember there being all that much fuss over it. In GW1 I had a build that had around 4 knockdowns in a row. I had also mastered “quarter-knocking,” timing your knockdowns so that your target doesn’t even have enough time to cast a 1/4 second spell.
If used perfectly I could kill most light armored classes in one combo. Rather than complaining people just started bringing skills to counter me. GW1 always had problems balance wise, but it was always playable and even enjoyable. You know why this is? Counter-Play. Whenever something became the “meta” you would see people shortly after posting a build designed to counter it. I hardly see any of that going on in GW2 except for the builds Warriors are currently running to counter conditions.
I think part of this is how infant-like the actual PvP meta is right now, compared to where GW1 developed to. Look at the very beginning of any game, and things are pretty laughably bad when you look at them from a few years later. In GW1 it was a bit less pronounced because most of the meta was just a big cycle and had relatively little forward-progress (although I’m sure GvG was different), but you can really see this in LoL. Look at what people did in/before Season 1. It was hilariously bad.
The other part is that people just don’t think that much. Everything is more a case of trying to find and play a better FotM OP setup than your opponents, or being better at it than them. Until very recently there was little to no difference between teams. Now you are finally seeing a meaningful difference in the team composition.
Man, you guys are harsh. I was trying to tempt Svarty into rolling a Necro.
We have enough QQing rerollers, thx :P I’m just waiting for the few more nerfs (in one way or another) to our PvP condi that ends up getting the mass exodus that I have been expecting since they added Dhuumfire.
The end result is the same so may aswell just make us have vigor. Atleast that way there is counter play to our endurance(strip the vigor). Also if you have steal endurance how would that work in pve? Which is where vigor is far more needed.
Fake it, basically. All siphons do not actually directly steal HP from the target and give it to you, although it appears that way. In reality they deal armor-ignoring damage to the target, and then heal you for a similar value (usually slightly difference now with scaling).
Do the same thing here. When you steal endurance, you hit the target, reducing their endurance, and you gain endurance. PvE mobs just wouldn’t lose anything because they don’t use it anyway.
I think we have more than enough options to deal with thieves already, even through stealth.
You said “cute little doll” for basically every single one. I don’t know many people who would consider the way we create minions as cute. Is it possible to create a doll-shaped sack of flesh and organs like we do now? Yeah, sure. It’d be pretty grotesque though.
Necros aren’t top of the line. I find it even funnier that a Guardian (essentially considered a required class in every composition in every part of the game) is complaining that Necros are finally considered high tier, when we aren’t ever as universal as Guardians.
Necros are just less wanted in PvP, depending on team comps. In WvW I guess it depends, I could see Necros being a bit more wanted maybe, but I would imagine it is very even. And PvE it isn’t even close. Necros are accepted in most groups, but never really wanted, whereas Guardians are pretty much expected in nearly every group.
No thanks. No more boons unless they are very well done (read: not this way).
If they decide to give us endurance, I want either endurance stealing, or “siphoning” (in the sense that their expended endurance is given to us in some portion). Not vigor.
Except we aren’t buying toys, we are pulling them out of nowhere and animating them. It is a similar magic, but it isn’t especially Necro (I’m not entirely sure about the lore and magic behind golemancy though).
Thats like saying why can’t a Necromancer use a giant firestorm, because an Elementalist can.
That aside, the whole point of this is just a skin. It doesn’t need to follow lore.