Guild Wars 2

The problem with Necro tanks is that not-dying isn’t good enough for GW2, you either need enough support to help allies (bunker guard), and/or CC to debunk, and/or damage. We don’t have good enough damage yet, due to our weapons, and coincidentally we don’t have the right type of CC or support for the same reason.

We finally got the trait rework we needed, we have the right traits at the right strength to have the defenses for bunkering. Reaper will bring the damage to allow us to be bunkers, and hopefully a future specialization will give us a support weapon so we can do that too.

SoV is really nice right now, even better than blood fiend in MM builds. CC is still okay sometimes though.

Shadow.7843:

Thank you for all the replies
It seems that a lot of people choose Tranfusion instead. What if I use Well of Blood as my healing skill; would Transfusion still be preferred or should I go for Vampiric Rituals?

You shouldn’t use Well of Blood is the real answer.

Yep. Allow them to reset and then re-engage their aggro.

Its a pathing issue, and mobs definitely have them too. I’ve already written massive posts about it, really don’t feel like repeating it again, but its 100% pathing issues that occur because you the player can trigger the minion aggro when pathing issues exist. Normal mobs don’t bug out as easily because they aren’t tied to a secondary moving object that will force them into bad situations, but you can very easily see mobs have pathing issues if you attack on the edge of large z-axis differences.

It mentions allies, which includes minions, they can’t put everything in the tooltip because at some point you end up with every tooltip being 2 paragraphs, and that is unwieldy.

Laserbolt.6731:

Ah, I see! Thanks.

The tool tip said “Minions siphon health and transfer it to you”; that threw me off.

I think you might be looking at different traits. The quote you just put is from the Vampiric Master tier Minor trait, whereas Transfusion is the bottom of the Grandmaster Major traits.

Vampiric does heal you with minion attacks, Transfusion however heals the minions for around 700 per tick (9 ticks) in Cleric gear, for a 6.3k heal for all your minions, which keeps them alive through enemy AoE damage.

The biggest problem with MM is still AI, and wonky interactions. Things like their abilities being a bit off, Necromantic Corruption taking too long to start procing (and being worse condi removal than it should be), and base issues with the profession.

I think Reaper will be the tipping point to make spectral bunker really strong. Still really tanky, we just need that little extra CC/damage push.

Transfusion doesn’t heal you, so that’s an irrelevant point, Transfusion is for your minions to keep them alive through the increased damage threat in the game right now.

Basically everything people are asking for either will never happen, or already exists in the system and isn’t the problem. We already have a “minions attack this” button, its called every single targeted ability you have. Their problem is pathing, and its a problem that ANet will have to fix with a reworked AI.

You should try playing bearbow, it’d be right up your alley.

They only draw after ten seconds. Meaning if you summon Bone Minions they need to be alive for 10 seconds until they will pull anything off you, which isn’t worth it.

gin.7158:

btw I have a question, do you guys explode bone minions or not? I wonder if it’s better to let them alive

Generally speaking there is no reason to not immediately blow them up. They lose DPS and Death Nova efficiency for every instant they are alive/not summoned, and due to how Necromantic Corruption works they won’t draw conditions realistically anyway. The only reason to keep them alive after summoning is because “max” efficiency is allowing them to auto once then blow up, and you might need to wait for them to get in range, or maybe wait for a bit better of a position for the poison field.

No. MM should be played with Cleric gear, and you don’t need the personal tankiness. Transfusion offers far more for the build.

True? Yes. Worth it? Hell no.

There is! The metabattle build isn’t quite as updated as I wish it was because I’ve been stupid busy recently, and I’m the primary one updating it. The build that was up there was basically my build, I need to update it with the other build that works right now which is death/blood/soul reaping, and you take unholy sanctuary instead of death nova, staff instead of axe/dagger. Soul Marks, VP, and FitG are taken from SR, it is a way more defensive build than the one on metabattle.

Epidemic is able to transfer 25 burning, poison, and bleeding to 5 enemies, which is all healing him. Considering people are getting 20k burning ticks on a single target, you are now looking at say, 100k burning healing you for 10k per second, just as an example.

I dagger AA for LF on drop AoE poison and cleave. The only time I finish is if I have an ally also stomping with me and we are against Engineer/Warrior/Necromancer with only single target CC to stop one of us.

Zin.6170:

Hey Bhawb how exactly does jagged horror summon work? Will it proc on the death of mesmer clones?

I believe it only procs on Player death. Mesmer clones don’t proc any on-death stuff.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Blood line is clearly awesome. How’s the death line? Are you using it at all in non-minion master builds?

Death Magic is really strong right now. Corrupter’s Fervor is strong, though underrated. Unholy Sanctuary is still really mediocre unless your build is already insanely tanky, but in Cleric gear it does provide some obscene sustain.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

2.Condi was thought to be really bad before everything came out. Have you tried out This build by Zombify? How did you like it?

Zombify’s build is fun, but even he admits the only reason it is good right now is because of the transfers, which are only good because other condi builds are OP. The transfers are really strong, and I dislike the design of Plague Sending to be so passive and difficult to play around. However, condi still lacks consistent pressure, just like everyone knew it would.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

3. Have you been successfully running any odd builds such as minion master or bunker?

Bunker builds still suffer from what they used to, they don’t provide any meaningful support, or don’t deal enough damage (only 1 of the 2 is needed to make bunker work). We finally have the tankiness we need, and I think once Reaper comes out we’ll have the ability for damage we need to be a damage-based bunker.

Blood Magic’s support is nice, but it isn’t enough to specifically bring a Necro I don’t think, due to lack of a proper support weapon, and our utilities still being mediocre support (though not as bad as before).

MM right now is really nice. Still need to fix a few issues such as AI, Haunt’s activation is too long, Charge’s cast should be on the Flesh Golem (like Haunt is), Rigor Mortis should be an AA reset, Blood Fiend’s passive healing needs to have a component that isn’t tied to hitting, and scale with healing power, and fixes to our weapon skills will help a lot, since a number of our weapons have objectively bad skills, but overall MM right now is really strong, in a good and skillful way.

There are two MM builds right now. One is tanky as balls but won’t kill someone in less than 5 minutes, and the other isn’t remotely as tanky but is much more capable of killing something. If you could somehow combine them together, and then make something even easier to play and more annoying, you’d have what Turret Engi used to be.

The difference is that to get the damage of turret engi requires a much squishier build, and to get the tankiness drops a lot of damage. And minions don’t even remotely come close to turrets for passive tankiness. Its not even close to the same build.

The telegraph is the 3 conditions on the Necromancer, which you know will cause it to proc, don’t be a moron and blow your entire burst when you know its about to reflect at you.

I just tried it out, normal SoV is fine, only BB is bugged.

Yeah, I just tested it again, only Blood Bond is an issue.

Basically only siphons that are unique to Necromancers, through skills and traits, work through DS, and SoV is bugged right now.

They changed it to always work off the Necromancer, so your power/healing power are what determines what your allies get out of it. So a nerf to some builds buffs to others.

You are correct, what they did was move it from adept to GM, and added in the old withering precision on top, and removed the ICD.

MM was good enough to get me into the top 100, and that was back before the fairly large buffs we just received. I wouldn’t expect to ever see it played in a tournament (not successfully at least), but it is absolutely viable in solo play.

Saiyan.1704:

Burning has Always been the most damaging condition in the game. Guardians don’t have access to ANY other conditions apart from runes and sigils. Darn straight we do a lot of burn damage

Except now burning is dealing far more damage than it used to. Even an extremely generous number of say 1k burning ticks is nothing compared to what people are doing now, 4k+ ticks are common in PvP on condi builds that are applying much more than just burning, and I’ve seen pictures of 20k burning ticks (obviously not something that will happen in PvP).

I don’t think Guardians are an issue, but other professions are dealing more condi damage with burning alone than other condi builds are able to do with everything they can apply.

I’d really like to see plague changed. It was a boring as hell elite to use (pop plague, press 2, afk for 20 seconds), I’d love to see it reworked.

VP is as much about the damage as it is the healing. I’d say LfD is an amazing trait for builds trying to go for more pure support from their Blood Magic, whereas VP is going to be better for otherwise standard builds that want to also provide some group support.

As for OP, burning itself is OP right now. It is double the strength of bleeding, yet there are professions that stack as much burning as others can stack bleeds.

lordhelmos.7623:

Necro:

Power necro in general instagibs people with DS 1, Lich is still giga cheese on open turfs. Condition transfer and corrupt boon with the condition changes is also pretty nuts.

Power Necro didn’t get any additional damage modifiers, so DS 1 now is doing the same it was pre-super power creep, with maybe a bit more reliable might stacking. Not saying it isn’t strong, but I’m not sure this can classify as OP.

Lich agree, I really want to see this reworked into a something like RoA, giving significant damage boost that isn’t tied to boons for a period of time (removed upon DS entry to prevent 8k LBs).

Corrupt Boon isn’t even fearing people right now, its bugged, and it isn’t that strong, most conditions aren’t that strong right now, just burning. Condition transfers are only strong while other condi builds are OP, as it scales solely off their condi application and damage. Basically, other condi builds are so OP that if you do the same back to them they die.

Curtis.1562:

In response to Blood Fiend:

Blood Fiend gives 129 DPS max, it isn’t bad, but not enough to really warrant the skill as the passive healing is strictly worse than SoV (308 to 340), and the passive healing is the only reason to use it. If you had Death Nova it’d be another deal, but all Blood Fiend will do is maybe take a condition from you every 30s or so, since any decent opponent will kill it. That isn’t to say you can’t use it, it is more down to preference, but having played MM a lot Blood Fiend just doesn’t perform.

Curtis.1562:

In response to Death Nova:

Death Nova immediately does 1300-1600 direct damage just upon the minion dying, plus up to 505 poison damage (15 ticks of poison, the field applies 3 stacks of poison for 5 seconds each), which also combos with up to 3 projectile finishers from the ranged minions for an additional 204 damage, not including the obvious benefits of poison, and that Bone Minions apply 100% weakness uptime with it. Unholy Sanctuary on the other hand struggles to out heal Mark of Evasion, and doesn’t out heal Blood Bond.

Curtis.1562:

In response to Ritual of Life:

It is super easy to proc Blood Bond, a single lucky minion transfer of 4 bleeds will do it, and there are a few ways to do it yourself, and unlike Ritual of Life it will actually help your build’s main goal. It is up to 2500 healing every 20 seconds, and 1500 damage, and that is without the increased healing power. Ritual of Life, if you are lucky, will heal you for 5382 every 40s, and the allied heal is a measely 1272. So unless you proc it on CD you’re better off with Blood Bond.

Side note: If you are procing BB on CD you are looking at needing to be in DS literally 80% of the fight for US to match an adept trait, which again is why that trait is so awful.

Curtis.1562:

In response to the viability of the build:

I don’t doubt it is tanky as hell, you have effectively 81k HP against direct damage if you have LF before the fight starts, the problem is if you are unable to kill someone, you can never debunk someone from a point. So if your team doesn’t already own the point, you are incapable of pushing their bunker off it, which is extremely important for an MM to be able to do. Without that, you can never choose your fights, they choose you; you simply have to sit on a point your team owns and hope the enemy comes to find you and waste their time.

Your build would honestly work better without the minions. You aren’t going to kill someone and are relying on team help (meaning, you are essentially using a 1v1 spec to not 1v1), so you might as well build better for it. You could turn this into a few types of bunker builds with almost no change, and it would perform in the role you are looking for much better.

SlitheSlivier.1908:

I run shadow fiend instead of wurm. More mobility esp of the fight moves, plus the blind is nice to have.

Lower DPS and active takes 3 seconds from when you click the button until he teleports. If the fight is moving your opponent will have left Shadow far behind by the time he finishes casting Haunt.

Lily.1935:

And If I’m not using Well of Blood and I’m using a condi build without Blood magic I take Prayer of Dwayna. For PvP? If your going to run condi I’d suggest running a signet build and forgetting about using CC entirely. Signet of vampirism may not be that great but at least you can get a few of its triggers while in DS if you really need the healing.

The change of the active working through DS, plus it being buffed by 20% baseline made it a decent heal. I wouldn’t say it is a great skill, but I’ve been enjoying using it, if they just fixed the stupid passive I’d love it.

If you want a rune to use with a pet running around, I believe Ogre runes are the best.

Honestly, whoever did the art for Necro was on point, hilarious stuff all around. Deadly Strength is a little skull with a dumbbell over it.

No, the only summons that get minion bonuses from trait lines are ones Necromancers can get on their own already (so Jagged Horrors from say Lich Runes will be supported by traits, but no other summons from Runes will).

Not a fan of Privateer runes. I’d generally suggest Pack runes, 5% DPS boost to you and your minions (slightly more but rounding), and the swiftness is a huge bonus to minions being able to stay on target. Other than those general power runes or defensive runes could work, Melandru gets a special note of mention. I’ll have to look over them a bit more next time around to see and test.

Yeah, if you don’t try to do anything it basically removes half your HP, if you build for it you can kill yourself.

I have split opinions on this. I realize the desire to more accurately blast (though in PvE it should be really easy unless you are trying to blast a wall field), but anything that makes them move before blasting is a nerf in PvP/WvW.

Its pretty putrid.

SoV > Blood Fiend, only thing Blood Fiend does better is one more condition every 10s, but has significantly worse healing over time

Death Nova > US, you are getting healed for a whopping 149 per second, especially in this build you have no problem with defenses already, but without DN you won’t ever kill someone as they’ll sustain through your damage just as well as you will. Also, DN adds a lot of damage, 1400 per minion death.

I’d also look at Soul Marks, its unlikely you’ll really need to be in DS that much considering your armor/HP, having unblockable marks should help significantly, plus staff’s LF generation is pretty awful without it

What’s Ritual of Life for? You have no healing power, and your build is even less suited for teamfighting than most, you shouldn’t ever have allies nearby to res, plus you don’t take the traits later on to support it like Transfusion. Blood Bond or Quickening Thirst would help a lot more.

I’d be really concerned about the ability to actually win a 1v1 with this build. You have Cleric MM levels of power with less damage and sustain. You’re going to end up heavily relying on allies to come help you at fights, and once they do come you’ll be less suited to supporting them.

The siphons that work have to be from necromancer skills/traits, neutral ones weren’t changed.

Actually doing some testing on their aggro, I’m fairly certain I’ve got an idea on how to “brute force” their AI into working again even after clearly bugging it out.

Just a reminder to everyone, all minion-applied conditions are treated as yours. Flesh Golem is capable of maintaining 6 stacks of Corrupter’s Fervor all on his own with auto attacks. Conditions applied with Necromantic Corruption would also work, as would projectile finishers and blast finishers on appropriate fields, Bone Fiend’s passive cripple, and the conditions applied by Bone Fiend/Shadow Fiend’s actives.

So if you are going into DM even as a non-minion build, Flesh Golem is something to consider instead of plague. Instead of killing you he’ll help maintain 12-14% reduced condition damage taken, and 120-140 toughness.

Yep. Condi still doesn’t provide enough consistent pressure compared to power. It spikes really well now, better than before, but you can only spike, outside of your spikes not much you can do.

Would be a great QoL fix.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I’d be interested in trying a MM build now. Have they fixed the uselessness of minions? When I tried those before they mostly just stood around looking dumb.

If you don’t use shadow fiend (which you shouldn’t imo) you’re looking at Flesh Golem being on the only meaningful minion to bug out. Wurm/Bone Fiend don’t bug much because of ranged, Bone Minions die too much to bug, so Flesh Golem is the big problem, and his Charge will fix his aggro momentarily. Pretty easy to work with them now, though Golem is still pretty hilarious.

If you take Banshee’s Wail you can pick up perma swiftness, but yeah having Quickening Thirst up permanently if you choose that over Blood Bond (both totally viable) is really nice.