[Feedback]Path of Fire Elite Specialization Preview - August 18-20
Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I do find the gigantic glowing backpacks, weapons, and armor to be a little gaudy and offensive to the senses. But then again, it is the player’s choice to put all of these items on, so you can’t blame the devs if everybody wants to look like a Christmas tree.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
This is something that has been bothering me. I cannot for the life of me figure out how condi warriors self-generate might for Phalanx Strength. I’ve looked at a few guides, but none of them mention how they do it. I’ve looked at the skills and traits that warriors run, and I can’t find anything there, either.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I do doubt the usefulness of the shortbow as a condi weapon. The mace/axe combo is a melee set in technicality. In practice, it is quite good at ranged engagements. Searing Fissure controls space, Echoing Eruption and Temporal Rift hit from a long distance, Unyielding Anguish can move surprisingly fast and has massive utility. In WvW I can already dish out quite the damage in skirmishes without having to belly up to auto attack.
I mean, lets compare two skills. Sevenshot and Echoing Eruption. All impracticality aside, Sevenshot will inflict 21 base torment ticks every six seconds. I’m going to put this down as 3.5 ticks per second. Echoing Eruption inflicts 50 base torment ticks every 8 seconds (assuming you don’t hit twice), coming to 6.25 ticks per second. This gives Echoing Eruption 79% more torment. Lets sum it up all together:
Echoing Eruption
Pro: Blast Finisher.
Pro: Hits a large area at greater range
Pro: Does 78% more condi damage
Pro: Is a movement skill
Pro: Lower energy cost.
Pro: Allows multiple off-hand weapons
Pro: Can hit the same target twice
Con: The movement can be uncontrollable at times
Sevenshot
Pro: Does 57% more direct damage
Pro: Combo Finisher (20%)
Con: Only works at exact distance
Con: Doesn’t scale with enemies
Con: Easily body blocked.
Con: Higher energy cost
Con: On the shortbow.
So, why would I even bother with the shorbow?
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I’m conflicted with the Mirage. Due to all the strange mechanics and weapons introduced here, I’m not actually sure the different ways to play the spec and what kind of damage it’ll do. Something I do notice is that Mirage offers no team support of any kind, so the spec doesn’t have good DPS it won’t have anything at all.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
Condi rev is solid before Kalla. It’s worth gearing up for now. Full Viper, x4 Nightmare Runes and x2 trapper runes.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I don’t have a dedicated WvW spec. I just bring my PVE weapons + armor, and have some ascended marauders trinkets that were easy to get. With that setup and cheap canned WvW food, I break 100% crit chance.
The best part about Brutal Momentum is the vigor. The crit chance increase seems good on paper, but in practice you’ll only have full endurance if you’re tossing hammers in ship vs. ship combat, or at the beginning of the fight. I wouldn’t expect that 30% to really be there otherwise, because again the Renegade is an ambush class with no ambush.
The synergy with Endless Enmity also comes with a highly situational activation window. You have to critical hit an enemy under 50% health. It is no use at the beginning of the fight. In the middle of the fight, you have to critical hit to get fury. For a zerker or marauder build this is a QoL trait, but running Valkyries, you encounter a big problem: in order to get fury, you need to already have fury.
This is true for Brutal Momentum as well. To get the critical hit bonus, you need critical hits to get the fury to get the vigor to get the critical hits to get the fury to get the… and the cycle continues. On a Valkyrie build the traits create a Kafkaesque loop where you need everything in order to get everything. And “everything” starts at 50% health, so you need to already be effectively killing your opponent in the first place.
The Renegade minor traits must piggyback off of the Invocation line in order to take effect, and it only does this so well. The third obstacle that a Valkyrie line faces is that Kalla’s Fervor only reliably stacks off of critical hits, which reinforces the loop. As much as I’d like to think that the Renegade is the new DS Reaper, it just isn’t reliable enough critical hit generation to go YOLO with valkyrie gear. The minors work best when you don’t need them, except for Vigor which you always need.
Besides, I can just go Invocation + Herald and enter every fight with 30 seconds of fury on my entire team and have 95% crit chance from rolling mists. Righteous Rebel is pretty good for power builds, though.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
[Feedback]Path of Fire Elite Specialization Preview - August 18-20
Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493
Sorry, I can’t put my feedback in sub 100 words. I just finished doing a writeup on the Renegade, and it is pushing 18,000 character. The short version is, everything is bad and not worth taking.
I also listed my complaints and anxieties with the Mirage Traits. My complaint is I have no idea how to play the class, and also a lot of things are bad. You can find that post here.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
Master Tier
Endless Enmity: The trait isn’t that bad. It is ironic that it works more to reinforce fury rather than give fury, but it has synergy with other specializations and it works well.
Sudden Reversal: Interesting. I would love to have the specs on the skill it uses, (range, duration, damage), but as a concept this is actually good. In PVP and WvW, this skill is going to use a stun right when you need it most, as an enemy comes charging in for the kill. In PVE it is worthless, though.
Heartpiercer: The damage buff to bleeds is alright, aside form the fact that core rev doesn’t use bleed. Shortbow piercing is basically coated bullets from Engineers again, and it suffers from the same issues: Doesn’t work half the time, more fun than useful. Overall, this trait will be taken in PVE because there is no better option, regardless of the fact that melee condi won’t use it.
All for one: At least your summons will do something before they’re feared and killed. Ironically, in nearly every practical application in PVP and WvW, this trait is going to have more of an impact than the actual summons will. That said, it is mostly useless for PVE, since it will proc once and then fade away. A few specs of protection aren’t too much of an impact though, so it is like most of the traits on this class just lightly nudge you toward victory instead of making a meaningful push. After all, a trait attached to sub-par skills is itself sub-par.
Grandmaster Tier
Brutal Momentum: … This can’t be real. A trait that is actually good? Yes! A good trait! Giving nearly permanent vigor is always useful, in every game mode. The crit chance bonus is currently buffed, but yet again it is useful in every game mode. Too bad the same can’t be said for the other Grandmasters.
Vindication: At least there are some traits that are good for running solo. Ironic that it is nearly useless in teams. I don’t know what the cooldown on gaining Kalla’s Fervor, though, so this trait either gives you a lot of might or basically none at all. The Citadel Bombardment is just a fancy way of saying that it has a situational 50% damage buff, but Citadel Bombardment is high cost and unreliable, so the trait itself is the same.
Lasting Legacy: The default PVE winner of the grandmaster tier, because Kalla’s Fervor is the main reason you’d bother taking this specialization in the first place. More on that later, but increasing the maximum number of stacks is meaningful and universal.
Righteous Rebel: This is the default PVP winner of the grandmaster tier. Having a blanket condition reduction is like having permanent protection, and the rev already has terrible condition management. Even with this trait, Orders from Above is still bad, since now all it does is shave 1.98 seconds off of cooldowns. 50% more of nothing is still nothing. Though the usefulness of this trait is called into question, since a condi rev in PVP has near limitless access to Resistance, which is far better than pseudo-protection.
Overall, the traits are uninspired. Several are generic buffs that don’t mesh with the rest of the class. Several are the most minimal increases in the chance for success. Several try to be unique but fail at doing so. There is two good, and these traits are the only draws to play this specialization. No, really. Everything else isn’t good enough to warrant notice. The utilities aren’t good, the f skills aren’t good, the weapon isn’t good.
Lasting Legacy is good because Kalla’s Fervor is good. With 10 stacks the Renegade gets 20% extra condition damage and 20% extra critical damage. These numbers are significant enough to warrant notice for condition builds. Condition builds never had a second line to run with, so they will go with Corruption, Devastation, Renegade in PVE as a default. And this is the only place where Renegade will see play.
In WvW, the inconsistent utilities, lackluster weapon, generally invisible traits, and the fact that condi specs have near permanent resistance means that there is no draw to use this class, even on condi specs. The same goes for PVP. The low maintenance, reliable buffs that Herald puts out is too good, as is Facet of Light. For Power Builds, AKA the builds that need the most buffs, Elder’s Focus is a better trait to do damage than Kalla’s Fervor. The only draw is the extra vigor, but Herald already has increased endurance generation.
There you have it. The Renegade attempts to be a rebel against good design. The utilities gather a load of weaknesses for the sake of being unique, and have no proper place in the vast majority of the game. The weapon is lackluster and might as well not exist. The traits are bad, with the exception of two, maybe three. The function skills cost too much and have too little an impact. The class is thematically designed for ambushes and mass expenditure, but the nature of energy management just makes the Renegade helpless prey while attempting to do this.
In PVE, the Renegade mildly buffs condition builds. Condition builds already did competitive damage, though, so they didn’t really need a buff. Power builds, the part of the Revenant which needed the most buffs, get nothing. In PVP, you’re better off sticking with the Herald.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
(edited by Blood Red Arachnid.2493)
SECTION 3: THE SHORTBOW!!!
This is where my analysis is the weakest, because without a golem to test things on, the overall effectiveness of the shortbow is unknown. While I like that condi builds are getting a more reliable ranged option, the Shortbow is… meh.
Shattershot: This skill seems alright. It is reminiscent of Fragmentation Shot from the engineers pistol, in the sense that Shattershot seems weaker in every way for some reason, but again, without a golem I can’t truly test what these skills do.
Bloodbane Path: This skill is all fluff and no substance. The odd angles means it gets blocked or dodged randomly. Thankfully the low cooldown means you’ll be spamming this a lot.
Sevenshot: Last I tested this skill, it didn’t work with the piercing trait. That aside, the skill is horribly impractical, because it demands that you use it at a price location at a precise range to hit precisely one target. The reverse shotgun is a terrible idea on a class that lacks the movement and rooting abilities to use it well. The thing about buffs and shields and wells is that they all want players to gather together. This skill wants you to separate yourself from the group, denying yourself of all the boons they normally provide.
Spiritcrush: Finally, a skill that simply works. I’d have to see how it works, because the wiki can be ambiguous at times, but otherwise this seems to be the only skill that is actually good.
Scorchrazor: It is a massive knockdown, but the animation time makes me think that it won’t have much tactical use.
Overall, the shortbow seems underpowered, in the sense that it exists and “does stuff”, but without a clear theme or synergy it is little more than trivia. Skills 2 and 3 are just convoluted ways of doing damage that have steep opportunity costs for low payoff. The rev really needs defensive skills on the shortbow, because as it stands now if Scorchrazor gets interrupted or blocked, a shortbow rev is a helpless punching bag.
SECTION 4: THE TRAITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, you’d think that the traits in the specialization might compensate for the bad utilities, bad function skills, and bad weapon. But they don’t.
Adept Tier
Ambush Commander: Basically the class mechanic. But, I’m going to use this opportunity to rant about yet another contradiction in the Renegades design. It is obvious from the energy costs and the lore that this isn’t supposed to be a class of direct confrontation. It is supposed to be a class that builds up its energy for a massive assault of skills. There are two problems with this design. First, the Renegade has absolutely no tools to do this. No disengage, no stealth, no invulnerability, no long range skills, no chasing skills, poor control. It is an ambush class with no ambush. Second, Kalla’s Fervor requires you to build it up in a fight, which you won’t do while saving energy for a burst of skills. It is like the concept, traits, utilities, and weapon were all designed by different people with no collaboration on what the Renegade is supposed to do.
However I digress. I will now continue to rant about the sub-par traits.
Ashen Demeanor: The thing with vulnerability is that it is only useful if you can either throw out a lot at once, or if you can sustain a healthy amount. Otherwise, short stints of vulnerability accomplishes very little. The Renegade does not have the control skills to make this work. The random spats of cripple and vulnerability are inferior to any kind of consistent source. Kalla’s Fervor is incredibly easy to gain, so the additional stacks from inconsistent traits are meaningless.
Blood Fury: Simple and effective. However, there is one really big problem with this trait. All bleed traits have poor synergy with core rev because the core Revenant does not inflict bleeds! The meta weapon build in PVE is still going to be Mace + Axe/Sword, and that setup inflicts poison, torment, and burn. The only way you’ll be inflicting bleeds is through geomancy sigils, and through Razorclaw. Now, in PVP and WvW this will be more useful because the shortbow may see the light of day. But, with the shortbow being a sub-par weapon, a trait that improves a sub-par weapon is by extension sub-par.
Wrought-Iron Will: This trait is an interesting one. The biggest problem with this trait is the range. 240 is really short, so nobody but your waifu and hordes of zerglings are going to get the benefits. But, retaliation on dodge is useful for a few extra damage ticks. This trait isn’t particularly stellar, though, and in PVE it is all but worthless.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
SECTION 2: THE UTILITIES!!!
While I discuss these utilities, keep in mind that they can be disabled by enemy attacks, as well as killed by enemy attacks. In medium and large scale WvW engagements, these utilities are all useless. I have yet to test them out in fractals and raids, but the large amount of ambient damage can also render these skills useless.
Breakrazor’s Bastion: PoF is introducing new mechanics in the game to work as ablative defenses. Whereas before we were filled with condi cleanses and invulnerabilities, we are getting barrier and partial condi reduction. There is wisdom to things like Barrier, since it acts as a medium between being wholly invulnerable and utterly helpless. However, the introduction of these mechanics faces a large obstacle to their use: They are vastly inferior to the cleanses and invulnerabilities that already existed.
Case in point, Breakrazor is not a “good” skill for being balanced against condi damage, in light of the fact that other heal skills simply obliterate condi damage. A 3.1k heal that slowly becomes a 5.8k heal if you loiter in place for 10 seconds continues the trend of sub-par healing skills on the Rev. Having a stun break be attached to the heal skill is interesting, and it comes with advantages and disadvantages. However, having a ground targeted heal skill that can be controlled and killed is not a good thing, in basically any regard. The unique buff the skill gives is interesting, but inferior to generic cleanses. Everything with Breakrazor can go wrong, and there is no grand reward for things going right.
Razorclaw’s Rage: This skill may be useful. I’d have to compare it to others first on the golem. In PVP the skill is useless, and in WvW it has questionable use, but in PVE where you can more reliably get 5 people attacking once per second, it is actually good. Animation and skill flavor aside, Razorclaw basically inflicts 162.5 base bleed ticks. This pushes it into “good” territory, but against harder bosses I am afraid that the massive amount of AoEs in fractals and raids will render this skill moot. Unlike the class mechanics, this skill is actually worth using for its recharge and energy cost. One last problem is that this skill does not scale against multiple enemies. It inflicts a maximum of 162.5 base bleeds no matter what, so this damage can be spread out among multiple targets.
Darkrazor’s Daring: This is the only skill where being killable can be forgiven. It will be alright for breaking some bars, but many breakbars are up for less than 6 seconds. In PVP this skill can make for good area control, but it is a shame that Revs don’t have many interrupt traits. The steep energy cost means that it’ll be difficult to use, though.
Icerazor’s Ire: I will echo the common sentiment that this skill should cause chill, not cripple. Otherwise, this skill has limited use. It very slowly does average damage, sustaining 20 vulnerability and 3 seconds of cripple for its duration. For a condi build it definitely isn’t worth its cost. Again, this skill does not scale with multiple targets, so while against a single opponent the damage is meaningful, against multiple enemies it is a minor nuisance.
Soulcleave’s Summit: This is the only skill that has an upkeep, so technically this skill is an odd transformation. The leeching and healing seem alright at first, but once you realize that you can only leech life once per second, you learn that this skill is basically a well that pulses for 748 damage for every player near you, coming to 3.7k dps. In a group this is stronger than things like Vengeful Hammers and Impossible odds, but solo it isn’t. But nonetheless, if you’re in a group, Soulcleave’s Summit is probably the only skill you’re going to use. Ironically the healing it outputs is pretty good.
Overall, the renegades abilities nicely demonstrate the contradictory nature of the Renegade:
- The do not support allies. They are carried by allies. You need to be in a group to work.
- They do not scale against multiple enemies. They inflict static damage, whether it be against one enemy or multiple. They are bad against groups.
- The skills are all elaborate wells, so they require players to remain still inside of them to get their effect. They also require enemies to stay still inside of them.
From a PVP and WvW standpoint, there is no appropriate place to use these. If you’re by yourself and fighting a group, you’re dead. If you’re in a group fighting a single player, you can contribute meaningfully to fighting an enemy that is terribly outmatched and will lose anyway. If you’re in a group fighting a group, you’ll make minimal contributions because your skills don’t scale well against multiple enemies. If you’re against a zerg, your utilities won’t live long enough to matter. If you’re in a zerg, your teammates won’t stand still long enough to get the buffs, so the utilities are useless. Conclusion: There is no place to use these skills in PVP and WvW. They simply don’t work.
The only place you’ll get the full effect of these utilities is in PVE, in a group, fighting against a single immobile enemy. Thankfully that happens often. But, this also leaves the Renegade in a strange quandary, because their playstyle is going to be boxed into one of two tactics: Soucleave until legend swap, or Razor Claw until weapon swap. A condi build will blow all of its energy by the time legends end up off of cooldown if you use Soul Cleave, so you’ll end up flailing auto attacks. But, the high cost of the utilities means that, after you use Razor Claw, you don’t really have the energy to do much else. The utilities just don’t mesh well.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
(edited by Blood Red Arachnid.2493)
Originally I was writing this as a response to another thread, but my ego is big enough that I deserve my own thread. My mother told me so, and she’s always right. Also the scope of my post was creeping beyond the discussion range of the thread so… new thread!
Anyway, I play Rev a lot. You can almost say I main it. The rev is my main class for WvW, and I play both a power spec and a condi spec in PVE. I like core rev, and I like the herald as well. Though the class is underpowered in optimal compositions, my relaxed playstyle means that the rev is excellent for all game types. The playstyle is low maintenance for all the support it brings. Also it looks cool.
The renegade… less so. I didn’t do much testing, but I did dip into the mists and try out several of the skills. I felt that the Renegade was lackluster, but hoped that maybe I just didn’t understand the class. But, as a curse of my slow witted nature, I slowly came to realize that I hate basically everything about the Renegade. I don’t like the skills, I don’t like the traits, I don’t like the weapon, I don’t like the class mechanic. In the end, I’m left wondering why I would ever bother playing the Renegade.
Section #1: The function skills
Section #2: The utilities.
Section #3: The shortbow
Section #4: The traits.
SECTION 1: FUNCTION SKILLS!!!
Heroic Command: Lets not mince words here. This utility exists solely to replace facet of strength. 20 energy, 10 second recharge, refreshes Fervor for 12 seconds, the skill is meant to spam off cooldown to keep permanent Fervor and 10 stacks of might. However, the steep energy cost means it won’t be used outside of roaming around in WvW, and only after winning an engagement. Because otherwise you don’t have the fervor to maintain the buff. Either way, refreshing fervor isn’t that useful, because building fervor is really easy.
Citadel Bombardment: I’m assuming that the wiki is wrong when it says this skill does 0 damage. But otherwise, the massive energy cost means that this skill is impossible to use. I have a hard enough time finding practical space to use unyielding anguish, since in WvW all my energy is spent on staying alive and in PVE all my energy is spent on group buffs. I would have to test it out to see if Bombardment is better than the team buffs, but initial signs point to no.
Orders from Above: A high energy cost skill that gives a paltry amount of Alacrity, which the Rev doesn’t really benefit from. This shaves 1.32 seconds off of everybody’s cooldowns. It’s not a meaningful buff, and the only time you’ll use this is when you’re standing before the boss room waiting for everyone’s cooldowns to finish.
Overall, the class mechanic is full of skills that are underpowered and cost too much energy to use. They just aren’t practical. Citadel bombardment is pretty, but it just isn’t practical. Pretty does not make for use.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
+5% from things like runes and sigils don’t display on the tool tip. The tool tip only shows the damage from traits and might. But nonetheless the bonus is there.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
Using Glyph of Storms in Earth is a quick way to kill everything without a break bar. It creates a blind field which renders most attacks against you useless. Just herd the enemies into one spot, use Glyph of Storms in Earth, then unleash the dogs of war.
Most of the enemies in HoT have one big gimmick. They do a big windup, then unleash a lot of damage. The snipers charge up and leave a large trail. The Stalkers teleport then do a devastating melee cone attack. Etc. and so on. Surviving in HoT is about recognizing the enemy, and know what attack they’re going to do. And yes, the mushrooms are overpowered.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I think of this mostly from a PVE standpoint. Take of that what you will. But overall the mirage traits leave me confused as to how I’m supposed to play this class. The class mechanic wants you to sustain clones, but a bunch of the traits give bonuses to shatters, and yet the bets way to play the base class is to keep phantasms up and never shatter. This leaves me with traits that contradict each other in three different directions.
Adept Tier:
Self-Deception. Using the phantasm style of play, this trait is utterly useless. If you sustain clones and spam ambushes this trait is useful once. Shattering frequently is when this trait is at its best, but shattering focus is still a pretty terrible way to play.
Renewing Oasis. I can definitely see the PVP use of this skill. Though I do wonder how it works exactly. But in PVE this trait is basically a situational and minor reduction in condi damage. In general, if you’re in a place with conditions you’ll bring a cleanse, not loiter around taking 80% of the damage you already would’ve.
Riddle of the Sand. AKA the only trait that will be used in PVE, regardless of what build you run. Not sure how this interacts with all of the skills, though. Is it confusion per hit? Does the confusion apply to clones as well? No idea. But still, confusion on ambush is good, and unlike most entry skills you can get it back. Just wait for the illusion generating skills to recharge, activate Cry of Frustration and spawn them all again. Though if you’re running a phantasm build, shatters aren’t an option and you won’t have clones to copy the confusion, so this trait is pretty sub-par in that regard.
In PVE, there isn’t a single one of these traits that I want to take. I just have to take one, and no matter how it works the answer is always going to be Riddle of the Sand.
Master Tier:
Nomad’s Endurance: This trait is mediocre. It pairs well with the Dueling Line, but the association between condition damage and vigor is obtuse. But unlike most flat buff traits, this one contradicts with phantasms.
Shards of Glass: Mirrors are terrible, so likewise this trait is terrible. It is inconsistent, contradicts with phantasms, and gives you an ambush skill + dodge right when all your clones are dead. There’s nothing good about this trait.
Mirage Mantle: Simple. But Impotent. It does barely anything. 1 second of protection is almost no protection.
Mirrored Axes: AKA the only trait you’ll take. It’s an all around buff for the axe. Simple, and effective. But useless for power builds.
Again, most of these are terrible. Mirrored Axes is good, but the other traits are distinctly not.
Grandmaster Tier:
Speed of Sand: This trait exists just to compensate for the limitations of the mirage cloak. There is much to be said when the grandmaster minor trait exists solely to compensate for a weakness inherent to the class mechanic.
Infinite Horizon: This trait… probably should’ve been innate. The ambush skills aren’t that good. In order to make them good, you have to maintain clones and take this trait. Then, ambush skills are a good option. Is it a better option than phantasms? I don’t know. It would take extensive testing to figure that out. Depending on the answer, this trait is either really good, or pretty terrible.
Elusive Mind: Finally, a trait that is universally good. It isn’t super useful for PVE, which will have you taking the other grandmasters for damage bonuses, but only a simpleton wouldn’t see the applications for this trait in PVP and WvW. Power builds will probably end up taking this trait by default.
Dune Cloak: AKA the trait you’ll be using. Comparisons to the Lotus Training trait reveal this one to be underpowered in damage application, range, availability, versatility, but superior in flat damage buffs. This trait will work regardless of whether you shatter or use phantasms. The duration buff is basically a flat bonus, and at least the dodge does something to nearby enemies.
The grandmaster tier has good traits, but sadly the minor and one of the majors boils down to “make the class mechanic work”. From the PVE standpoint, Dunecloak is the superior trait. The 20% condi buff is going to be far more useful than clones dodging and ambushing, and if you aren’t running a condi build then you shouldn’t be a mirage.
Overall, the traits continue the contradictory nature of mesmers by emphasizing shatters and clones when phantasms are the superior playstyle. There is nothing for power builds. There is no big mechanic or trait to draw the people in to play the mirage.
Unfortunately, I am not the best at fixing problems insomuch as I am at explaining them. If I were to give a few suggestions:
#1: Make Shards of Glass innate.
#2: Make Infinite Horizon innate.
#3: Get rid of Mirage Mantle.
#4: Give Self-Deception another effect besides clone generation.
#5: Fill the now empty 3 spots in the trait line with power or phantasm friendly build options.
That is a good place to start.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
As things stand, I might stick with the daredevil. But, the build in PVE that I am going to try out is the following:
Deadly Arts: Mug, Panic Strike, Executioner
Critical Strikes: Twin Fangs, Practiced Tolerance, No Quarter
Deadeye: Iron Sight, Silent Scope, Be Quick or Be Killed
Full Berserker on everything. Scholar Runes, Sigil of Force + Sigil of Air.
Dagger + Pistol, Rifle.
Signet of Malice
Shadow Flare
Signet of Agility
Assassin’s Signet
Basilisk Venom
The trait designs for Deadeye are largely PVP based, and as such there isn’t much to choose from in a PVE environment:
At the adept tier, Revealed Malice will be cumbersome to use, and often not really worth it. One in the Chamber may be good, but I will need experience with the stolen skills that Deadeye gets. For now, I will take Iron Sights, because it is simple and it always works.
At the master tier we have better options. Silent Scope is able to push the the rifle into 98% crit range without food, which is pretty good. In group environments it isn’t as good, since constantly swapping between kneel and stand is cumbersome and I’ll be getting more crit chance from team buffs. Unforgiving is also a decent option, since a 1 second stun has a lot of use against bosses. If Unforgiving works as I think it will, then each time Mark recharges I can stun the exact same target over and over again. Peripheral Vision is the wild card, because again I don’t know all of the mark skills.
At the grandmaster tier, Fire for Effect is the wild card. The big debate is between Maleficent Seven and BQoBK. The whole reason to take the deadeye in PVE is for the Malice buff. 15% for all damage is substantial, and there is some wisdom in getting those malice stacks as fast as possible. With Maleficent Seven, you can get a 21% damage buff after 7 seconds of combat. However, my experience in most of PVE has shown that enemies simply do not live for 7 seconds. BQoBK facilitates extremely fast kills, and also provides a nice buff when teamed with a Chrono. This makes BQoBK the superior trait, except in circumstances when you are fighting against a champion without team quickness.
For utilities, the signets are obvious choices. The remaining skills depends on what you want.
Shadow Flare is a high damage pulsing AoE. Against small groups it is good, but against a fully marked champion it is even better. It is the simple option. Though if you want CC, you’ll have to choose between Binding Shadow and Shadow Gust. I would recommend Binding, because the Knockback from gust will interrupt enemy placement, and Binding also does more damage. Mercy is nearly useless, and for a stun break I’d recommend a vanilla thief skill instead. Malicious Restoration is also nearly useless, as thieves have better heal skills natively. Shadow Meld is pretty cool as an elite, but CC is far more needed than stealth in PVE.
Overall, I’m certain that Daredevil will be better in PVE than the Deadeye. While I will be wandering around the desert humming the Mission Impossible theme for awhile, the Daredevil has too many advantages. DD has Havoc Mastery and Bound for damage bonuses, it damages on dodge, it has great mobility, excellent endurance regeneration, and the utilities are pretty useful. The Deadeye is immobile, the utilities aren’t that good, the damage buff only works against 1 target and it takes 10 seconds to get the full 15%. The steal skills are still a wild card, and the high range of the rifle is something that just isn’t needed in PVE. To its advantage, quick fingers will let BQoBK chew through countless mobs with near permanent quickness and high buffs.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I shudder to think what WvW would be like if a Herald could effortlessly spread Retaliation, Quickness, and Aegis. That would push the Herald into being outright broken. I run a retaliation focused WvW build myself, and every time defense against guard procs I get 20 seconds. The amount of counter damage I put out is insane.
There’s a reason why vigor, quickness, aegis, retaliation, stability, and resistance is rare. It is because if they aren’t reigned in, they become broken really fast. People already think Heralds are OP in WvW because they can give themselves permanent resistance.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
Herald is a class that does well in non-optimal situations. In premades it doesn’t do anything unique, but in PUGs it is really good at ensuring might and fury. I’ve found that I can maintain the standard rotation while keeping up might, fury, and protection, and protection does help inexperienced groups. It has plenty of CC for breaking bars, and if the situation calls for it I can block a lot of projectiles. The vulnerability helps, too.
Herald is much better in WvW and PVP. There is strength in the ability to sustain boons for free, and no other class can do it as well as the Herald. Dropping 8k Coalescence of Ruin on enemy zergs has a meaningful impact. While their escapes are mediocre and their condi cleanse is terrible, Heralds have the ability to chase with the best of them, and quickness means I almost always win the auto attack war. Condi herald can kill whole parties by dropping double Unyielding Anguish on them.
I don’t know much about the healing spec, but I’ve seen it work very well, so I am assuming it is competent. That said, my main lament with the class is the low power DPS. I don’t know the peak, but generally I sit around 26k unrealistic, and that is really low.
EDIT: I suppose another complaint I have with the Herald is the traits themselves. The utilities are good, the weapon is usable, but the traits are really flat and leave us with only one good option to choose from.
Adept Tier
Swift Gale: Superspeed on stun break isn’t that useful. Unlike the scrapper, superspeed doesn’t come with any additional benefits. It just sort of exists. Moving slightly faster for 3 seconds doesn’t contribute to much at all, and I am pained to think of a situation where this trait realistically would mean life or death.
Radiant Revival: Well, it’s a rez skill… though it may seem useful, it rarely is. In WvW the damage that I heal is compensated for by loads of disabling conditions and CC. In PVE it can be useful sometimes to proc invulnerability by going to rez an ally. While other rez skills affect change in the field, this one just sits there.
Hardening Persistance: AKA the best option. At base armor it reduces the damage you take by about 8% when running at cost, and more if you’re running at a deficit. It is very bland, and it can interfere with aggro mechanics, but it does marginally contribute to a fight.
Major Tier
Bolster Fortification: Gives a very small amount of AoE protection when you use a heal. Considering this class can give a small amount of AoE protection on demand whenever it feels like it, the smaller amount that this trait gives isn’t noticeable.
Harmonize Continuity: I don’t like group stunbreaks. In WvW stuns are often stratified and coupled with immobilize, but if you’re getting stunned in large scale combat that means you’re about to be consumed by the swarm. In PVE, any place where stuns are important is going to have players running their own stun breaks. The tempest has a better version of this trait, and that one is barely useful. This is less so.
Shared Empowerment. AKA the best option. It’s simple in what it does, and it does it well enough to notice. The rev’s goal is to spread boons, and spreading more might is better than spreading some might.
Grandmaster Tier
Enhanced Bulwark: Additional stability on stability application would require rare circumstances to be useful. It synergizes with the Retribution trait, letting you get two stacks of stability on evade. But generally the trait is overkill. Everywhere in PVE, one stack is enough. In PVP/WvW, Stone Road refreshes stability faster than any one person can strip it, and the dodge trait is only meaningful if you’re fighting two people. Stability from outside sources already comes in multiple stacks or with a high refresh rate, so this trait is situational at best.
Soothing Bastion: Normally I am a fan of brainless traits that automatically proc when you’re going down. But not this one. There are two problems with this trait. First is that the proc time is at 25% health, which is well within the instant death threshold. Second, Crystal Hibernation roots you in place. When used on command, it can be used in PVP to hold a point. But when Crystal Hibernation starts randomly activating out of your control, then the sudden root will get you killed. This skill is a self stun at the worst of times.
Elders Focus: AKA the best option. 2% per boon is alright. In a PVE setting you’re realistically going to have swiftness, might, fury, regen, then either protection or quickness, so in a group setting the extra 10% damage is good. In PVP you’ll only get 6-8% but it is still noticeable.
I’m reminded of what inspired me to make that old necro traits thread. It was an accident. I accidentally selected the specializations without selecting the traits in them, and I was left playing traitless. It was days before I noticed something was missing. Herald traits suffer from a similar problem. Overall, our best choices are a minor defense boost, a minor might boost, and an average damage buff. Other classes get bonuses like this wrapped up in a single trait, such as the Engineer’s Big Boomer. The minors of the Herald line are good, but the majors are just filler. This is one of those specializations where, if I forgot to select any traits, it would be a week before I would find my mistake.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
(edited by Blood Red Arachnid.2493)
The best part about firebrand IMO is that it is a better theme than Dragonhunter. Slow actions aside, I am looking forward to playing this in PVE. The specialization gives a massive toolbox to the guardian without occupying any utility slots, so I am looking forward to use it.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I’m not happy with the spec, either. I can’t figure out how it is supposed to deal damage, the skills are clunky to use, the mirrors are an inconsistent and poorly explained mechanic, the dodge is jarring. I haven’t done a full review of it, largely because I don’t PVP, but from testing on the golems the Mirage is neither fun nor powerful.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
Poor time to edit I guess. But yes, both of those times the person who initiated the kick said it was because their DPS is low. As for the run count, I don’t know. It is quite infrequent from what I’ve seen, but I have far from an all encompassing view.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
Thankfully, I’ve never been kicked, but I have seen other players get kicked for it, so my fears are not unfounded.
Fun fact about these kinds of comments: you never know the full picture.
Case in point: the opening of this thread. We still don’t know what exactly happened.“I heard it happening, so it must be true”, is not a very good argument.
“Seen” is literal here. I was on the team, and saw the person ousted. I have personally witnessed this happen at least twice. And in both instances, the person who initiated the kick said “his DPS was low”.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
(edited by Blood Red Arachnid.2493)
The challenge mode is quite a bit easier now. With Arkk only doing the tower attack on set intervals, and with the anomaly no longer spawning in thin air, success has gone from “crapshoot” to “realistic expectation”.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
What you’re stating is absurd.
You’re saying people will kick you because of low dps while you’re sacrificing your dps to take the burden off mechanics.
Honestly no good group will do this.
Well, my good man, my concern is not with “good groups”. It is with bad groups who think themselves to be good. Probably one of my favorite lines that I’ve heard doing casual t4s is “OMG I can’t believe the scrapper has the highest DPS”. This group didn’t advertise meters. The player simply had it on them and was watching it intently.
In the second case your issue is not dps meters but the quality of the people you’ve associated with and no removal of dps meters will change that.
It will. The thing is, discriminating against players for AP or LI or having titles is both silly, and highly visual. You can avoid groups which do this easily, and also discourage them from doing this by publicly pointing out the flaws of their reasoning. But DPS meters are invisible and never advertised. I cannot see the group which has somebody hovering over a DPS meter with a chip on their shoulder. It just happens. Thankfully, I’ve never been kicked, but I have seen other players get kicked for it, so my fears are not unfounded.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
The answer ( for me at least) is simple: never – because I’m me and to myself I matter more than you do.
Use an iota of logic here. If your desires are selfish and you admit this, then you should expect to be demonized for them. Every single argument you make is disingenuous now.
Except I’m perfectly fine with being kicked and excluded if I’m performing poorly.
Others aren’t, and you should respect that.
It is a two-way street but unlike you I am not afraid of being called out on failure and suffering the consequences of my actions or performance. It’s called being responsible for yourself.
It is only the selfish mind that sees sub-optimal performance as causing “suffering”. Other people do not see it this way or feel this way, and you are demanding the world kneel to your madness. It doesn’t work like that. Again, this mindset is warped. Because you have made arrangements to live within an unfair system doesn’t make it fair. It is like a thief that feels justified in stealing other peoples valuables because they’ve hid their own and would blame themselves if their own hidden valuables were taken.
If someone slows my run down and makes me waste 10-15 minutes – then yes – there is a debt. They take from me directly – they sap and ruin my enjoyment of the game and waste my time. I like neither of those things.
No, it doesn’t work like that. A player doesn’t “slow you down”, because you are not entitled to speed. In fact, you’re not even entitled to a group, let alone an elite group. You do not innately have speed which other people rob you of.
And here’s one of the problems – from what I gather you think everything is an interpersonal problem while in most cases it is not.
Any issue that deals with the expectations and demands put upon a person is an interpersonal problem, for it involves two people: You, and the other unnamed person. Other players are not tools with varying levels of insolence.
No amount of negotiation or forgiveness will teach you core mechanics or give you the proper gear.
I’m not the game’s tutorial system – I’m not here to instruct you ( especially since all hard content is incredibly old).
This is blatantly not true. I have been on groups where I have given advice to players, and seen their performance increase drastically because of it. The difference between an incompetent player and a competent one is usually but a few words. Being that this is a multiplayer game without a tutorial, you are the tutorial system of the game. I have seen players change their gear on suggestion as well. Not everybody who plays the game has been playing for years, and no matter how old the content is it will be new to somebody.
The best part is, this works out better than kicking, because I have increased the overall performance power of the community permanently. Kicking would’ve let it be stagnant and bred more hostility.
Again – don’t make this personal because it suits your narrative – it is not personal. I have no interest in 90% of the people I meet in pugs as persons.
This is utter BS. Every word you have written is dripping with condescension, and you have taken the position that everybody who doesn’t submit refuses out of a character flaw. You have called casuals selfish, irresponsible, undeserving, cowardly, and emotionally frail.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
Second of all you have feelings – sure – (although personally I don’t particularly care about them nor am I obligated to do so) there’s the issue of their feelings as well.
You have feelings that get hurt if you get kicked or told you’re bad?
Well guess what – I have feelings that get hurt and a play experience that is ruined if I have to play with a bad player that’s not bothering to pull his weight and wants to leech off my run.
When did your feelings become more important than mine?
Therein lies the problem: caring about peoples feelings is something that normal people do. There’s a reason why we call people who don’t care about other’s feelings a sociopath. Other players are not tools with varying degrees of insolence. You’re going to spend endless hours arguing with people on this because you are a stone trying to convince water that indefinite form isn’t real. The best thing you can do is a person is realize that your lack of caring is abnormal, and thus your actions and decisions are going to be warped due to a selective sociological blind spot.
Within this realm of feelings is the joy gained by playing a particular class, and this is yet another thing that elitism punishes. People feel rewarded for playing their class the way they want, and don’t when they aren’t. With rare exception, this feeling is ubiquitous across the player base. As an addition to tolerance and forgiveness where people have agreed to have competent performance, we have the agreement that parties involved are going to be having fun. This agreement is not taxing, because if everyone is having fun playing the class the way they want, then the time for completion is not a factor. Any additional time spent on content due to inefficiencies is merely time spent having fun.
This expectation is not selfish. The unspoken agreement is that if one player plays how they want, another player can play how they want regardless of that manner of play. Other teammates are allowed to change their class or min-max their build however they want. There is no expectation to carry or be carried, and there is no debt of performance that demands to be filled.
On the contrary, elitism demands that everyone plays the same way, and puts stringent demands on other players. An elitist assumes that other players owe them an excessive level of performance. The elitist has invented concepts like “carry” and “leeching” to legitimize their entitlement, to demonizing the standard player and uplifting themselves to be righteous. Merely playing the game is considered a gift to the other players, but they demand recompense for their ways. Because of these destructive trends, the elitists wants and needs are less important to consider. The elitist demands everyone tries as hard as they can for their sake, where the casual doesn’t.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
Joining a group that clears T4s in 20 minutes is a reward compared to joining a group that takes an hour.
Joining a raid group that fully clears in 2-2.5 hours instead of 6-7 per week is a reward. You might not see it but you are gaining something with a lot less effort – in a sense you’re getting a “discount” on time. Which in itself is to your benefit.
Good groups perform well and expect you to do the same.
This is not a reward. Elitism demands effort, it does not give for less effort. This is also contradictory, because you are assuming that some unworthy player is being gifted a run (which is a collaborative effort) in order to make the argument that somebody should never be gifted a run and that they should be pulling their own weight. It doesn’t work like that. You are also erroneously comparing a peak performance group to an incompetent one. You have to compare a group that has passing competence, so really you should be comparing groups that beat t4 in 35 minutes to ones that complete it in 20.
You also should factor in the time spent training to get that skillful, and also the time spent arguing on the forums to get everyone else to agree with you.
This as far as I’ve seen is false. Most groups that have demanded good play practices from me ( proper gear, proper rotations, good knowledge of hard content) have been very good groups that I’ve had a good experience playing with.
Perhaps you’re not able to find the right groups?
Lets not pretend that this argument hasn’t been going for years. Since launch I have been in dungeon runs with self-proclaimed experts who possessed the annoying trifecta of being loud, incompetent, and controlling. And through the years, this hasn’t changed.
Your denial of this comes from the fact that you’ve been doing guild runs almost exclusively, in a guild of people who have already agreed to use preset compositions and rotations. For you, somebody who doesn’t run the meta is violating an agreement that you’ve signed with the rest of your guild. The general population, however, is not like this at all. The agreement is to have fun, not to flex their gaming muscles. There is no demand for performance above average minimum competence. There is no “proving” yourself to enter into the game’s general population. The gameplay fascists who jump into a group and start hassling people what their DPS meters say are noticeably not in a guild that agrees to do so, so their competence immediately comes into question.
I think you’re falling into the US-centric mindset of throwing the “fascist” term around too easily. It has a definition – it does not apply here.
Analogies exist.
Personally I get most frustrated when encountering players that waste my time. You might think that’s “IRL” or “in-game failure” but honestly I can’t stand having to pick someone up off the floor 24/7 or having to tell them what to do on content that has been out for years.
Yes there are chill groups out there that will carry you, even if you’re non-meta – but that doesn’t mean all good groups are supposed to accept you just because some of them did.
I did not spend hours testing different traits and tactics on the raid golem to be “carried”. However I digress, the notion that somebody is “wasting your time” is a notion that you alone hold. Again, a player’s service is not indebted to you. These chill groups are not “carrying”, because they do not have the notion of performance debt to carry. They just play the game.
First and foremost it is not fair to them that you gain from their good performance while not being able to provide the same. It’s unfair – you get more off them then you give in return. Nobody can call that fair.
If you didn’t bother to “stop there”, you’d realize it is a long term investment. Again, collaborative efforts are not a gift, and performance debt doesn’t exist. It is fair that I am civil and forgive them, and it is fair that they are civil and forgive me.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
So today I have been kicked out of a fractal party cause my dps was not maked out, they confirm using dps meter. So now people can use dps meter? So arenanet you change your mind? Can I ask a refund of my entire account cause I clearly remember back a couple year ago dps meter was illegal and thats was one of the reason I started playing this game. To avoid kittens players. If I recall the user agreement speak of this? Did anet change the user agreement without notice or I miss something?
One problem with DPS meters is that after awhile it can be all you see. Telling someone their DPS “sucks” for example does nothing to help someone get better. They should at most be utilized in groups that have an understanding going in, and where all have the same goal to maximize, and then only as a challenge once everyone in group has mastery over mechanics.
But hey , most don’t say anything b4 kicking someone, so props to the dude for saying anything. That’s something I guess.
Also, DPS far from tells the whole story. For CM100, for example, a meter would clock me as having sub-par DPS on Arkk on my guardian, but that is because I save my full burst for the anomalies that spawn and spam aegis via Retreat. Or it would have me at low DPS on my necromancer, mostly because I would take corrosive poison cloud and epidemic to handle the red marbles and anomalies instead of taking max DPS skills. If the run should fail, the group would look at me as the weak link in spite of providing several utilities that greatly increase our chances of success.
It is one of the reasons why I don’t stress DPS so much. If the options are open I will go for max deeps, but I’d much rather take the useful utility over the minor damage buff. Bane signet may increase my personal damage by 6%, but Retreat saves lives.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
You’re looking at it oddly.
When you do well you’re rewarded with being accepted into a group that does well. That’s the reward.
Oh please. Joining your group is not a reward. Not only is the quality to the group irrelevant to how elitist the players feel, but groups do not have preliminary trials before accepting others into their ranks. They simply expect you to perform, regardless of their own skill. You are “rewarded” for nothing, and punished for everything.
It has been my experience that the groups who demand the most performance out of their players are often the most terrible. They get frustrated from their failures (both in game and IRL), and become gameplay fascists as a response. They attempt to dictate every little thing in their lives in an attempt to counteract their impotence, but this doesn’t make them better players. It just makes them insufferable. Likewise, some of the best groups that I’ve been on are chill. I got the Be Dynamic achievement on a team that didn’t even try for the meta comp. No druid healer, no CPS warrior, and the only reason the team had a support chrono was because I brought it.
I know you would prefer (like anyone else) to be accepted into a group that does well even if you do poorly – but that’s not really fair to them is it?
It is fair to them. It is called tolerance. First it recognizes that people are people and they have feelings. Second, it recognizes that there are a myriad of reasons why even the most pretentious players will fall by the wayside in performance. With those two things recognized, it postulates the following: forgiving bad play fosters a positive community that will, in turn, forgive your bad play. If you are tolerant of the failures of others, then others will be tolerant of your failure. And you will fail eventually. It is a two-way street, where if I am forgiven then I am expected to forgive.
If you want to play with people that do well – you should be like them and do well yourself. It’s only fair to them that they gain as much from you as you gain from them when you play together.
Your view on this is warped. Other players do not take from you by joining your party, for there is no debt that random people are expected to fill.
I understand your fear – it’s normal. I have nothing against being kicked if I’m performing poorly. Why should you or anyone else?
Kicking a player is the worst way to solve an interpersonal problem. No negotiation, no forgiveness, no instruction. It breeds hostility and doesn’t fix the long term issues.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
My biggest concern with DPS meters is that I’ll end up marked for my mistakes.
DPS meters are not tools to reward good performance. They only exist to punish bad performance. The issue is, bad days happen. Sometimes I can’t get my skills off, and my performance will sink because of reasons both within and out of my control. On good days, I am not going to be rewarded for doing everything right. I am expected to do everything right as the norm. But on a bad day? I’ll be facing the threat of being kicked + blocked. That connection is severed forever because of bad luck. This is what is meant by DPS meters making a toxic environment: you are never rewarded, only punished. This kind of environment is why companies create automatic reward programs for their low end workers; to counteract the issue where only failures are noticeable.
The thing about self improvement is that you really don’t need a DPS meter for it. Common sense applied to your skills and traits is enough to produce a working damage rotation, and competent play is enough to ensure success. I’ve tried out my own rotations on the DPS golem and seen what works, and when in combat I can usually tell whether I’m doing good damage or not just by evaluating my own performance. If I continually blast my enemies with all my high damage skills then I’m doing good DPS, and if I can’t then I’m not.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
The most advantageous thing about the condi rev is the consistency in which it can do damage. A lot of the other classes have several variables that can backfire.
Condi Tempest is the best, assuming fire overload isn’t interrupted, you have convenient access to FGS, the boss stays in place for burning speed and flamewall, and you’re fighting enemies condensed in a small area. Mobile bosses or bosses that force interrupts, or hell even waves of adds will cause DPS to plummet.
Condi Daredevil is good, but it doesn’t scale well with numbers, the venoms are unreliable outside of raids, and the focus on using death blossom will kill you with its animation lock.
Condi Engineer suffers from the same “moving target” weakness that eles have, except the condi engineer rotation is so difficult to pull off that even in a clinical trial I can’t even break 30k DPS, let alone the mythical 34k that QT can hit.
Condi reaper gets a lot of its damage from using spin to win in an ice field, but if anyone else puts a field down first you’ll just shoot out a bunch of cleansing bolts instead.
I don’t know much about condi Berserker. But Condi Rev almost never loses its damage. Yes, enemies can wander out of the fire field from mace 2, but if the enemy is moving then torment raises in damage to compensate. The rotation is simple, the animation of mace 3 isn’t too punishing, and the skills work great against groups. In a clinical trial it doesn’t peak as high as the others, but in practice the Condi Rev is an excellent condi class.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
Guess I’ll call this part 2 of my post, since this blasted headache has caused me to drop the train of thought abruptly for four hours.
For the sake of diversity in play and overall balance between damage types (and likewise, the classes that deal with them), it is important to have power damage be superior. The game already has the tools built in to give condition damage selective advantage, whether it be attack range, protection, weakness, or enemy armor levels. The reverse is not true. Giving power damage a selective advantage requires jumping through several of hoops:
Hoop 1: Conditions tend to be easier to apply at range, which makes them the safer, defensive option. Power damage tends to be applied in melee distance, which is the riskier option. To encourage power damage is to discourage range, which is difficult to do. You have to build enemies to have bizarre mechanics to force players closer, and even then they’ll just use their condi weapons at point blank.
Hoop 2: Resistance is overpowered. In PVP it is managed by its rare application, but in PVE to give an enemy reliable resistance is to almost completely shut out condition damage. The boon is an on/off switch, not a partial percentage reduction. You can’t throw it around like you do with protection.
Hoop 3: Regular cleanses also act like an on-off switch. Again, this makes it very difficult to balance the usage of cleanses to make power damage preferential without utterly destroying condition damage.
Hoop 4: It is easier to build for conditions, since they technically only require two stats (expertise and malice). This shows up as a balance issue in WvW, since a player in Dire Gear is able to maintain a larger proportion of their damage output over its counterpart in Soldiers. This also translates to PVE performance, where a non-viper set of condition gear is going to perform better than a non-zerker set of power gear. To counterbalance this, you’d have to somehow make having less defensive stats less risky than having more defensive stats.
The only practical way to give power an advantage is to give enemies low armor values, and the only way to discourage conditions is to lower armor values while inflating health. This… isn’t mechanically interesting like protection and weakness are. It just makes certain enemies more susceptible to direct damage.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
(edited by Blood Red Arachnid.2493)
So just to be clear, I can run Power Rev in T4 fractals without running into trouble (aside from not knowing the fractal mechanics)?
Easily. I’ve done it many times, and in fact it is a great way to ensure that a pug party will have its buffs. Never been kicked from a pug, either.
One exception: The only place you might encounter an issue is the Fractal Assault challenge mode, or CM100. In theory it is possible to beat it with any composition of competent builds. In practice… the fractal is cheese grater on forehead levels of hard, and you need to put quite a bit of optimization into a team to get a win. The common comp is support chrono + dedicated healer + PS warrior, with condi necro as soft 4th spot. There’s only one or two open slots, and with only 3 players running DPS builds you need to squeeze as much deeps as you can. Without anything particularly unique or useful to provide the team, the mediocre damage output of the power rev finds it in fierce competition with guards, eles, and thieves.
Condi rev and healing rev, however, are more than welcome in CM100.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
There is… one issue I have with condi superiority.
Power Advantages:
Instantaneous
Power Disadvantages:
Affected by Toughness
Affected by Protection
Affected by Weakness
Condi Advantages:
Ignores Armor
Condi Disadvantages:
Can be cleansed
Affected by Resistance
Ramp Up Time
The bold parts are what concerns me. In PVE, there are very few enemies that cleanse their conditions or have the resistance boon. However, there are a lot of enemies that have protection, use weakness, or have increased armor. This means that there are a lot of circumstances where power damage receives significant debuffs. Dots occupy the special damage niche by bypassing many of those mechanics altogether.
One would expect that, to balance things out in PVE, we would have power damage hold the throne. There is a myriad of ways to topple that throne and give condition damage situational benefits. But as it stands now, the only advantage power damage has is its ability to quickly kill veteran mobs or lower. When fighting champs or legendary enemies, condition damage is best by default and protection + weakness + armor only reinforce this dominance.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
The highest damage build is actually the condi rev.
Armor: Full Vipers. x4 Nightmare Runes, x2 Trapper Runes.
Weapons: Mace + Axe, weapon swap can be anything. Sigil of Malice, Sigil of Geomancy
Demon Stance/Dwarf Stance.
Specializations:
Devastation: Ferocious Strikes, Assassin’s Presence, Swift Termination
Corruption: Venom Enchantment, Abyssal Chill, Diabolic Inferno.
Invocation: Rolling Mists + two other traits of your choice
The build doesn’t really have a rotation. You just use mace 2, mace 3, axe 5 when they’re off cooldown. Make sure you complete the auto attack chain. The important thing is, when you are in demon stance, keep Embrace the Darkness active. When in Dwarf Stance, keep Vengeful Hammers active. Swap stances whenever possible to trigger the Sigil of Geomancy.
Also something to note, Unyielding Anguish is a good skill to have if you need burst conditions or need a lot of AoE conditions. Though it isn’t part of the regular rotation, there are times where you’ll build up energy but the enemy is inaccessible, so if you have the energy, drop double or triple Unyielding Anguish on the enemy before swapping stances.
At it’s peak, the build does up to 32k DPS against a stationary target. More if it is moving. Unrealistic buffs, though. If you want to trade some damage for some utility, you can run Herald instead of Invocation, and use Dragon Stance instead of Dwarf Stance. For the weapon swap, personally I run off-hand sword for when I need to block, or if I need more CC.
The weakness of the build is it’s low CC, and it’s awkward engagement range. Currently, there is no good ranged weapon for Condi Rev, so if you find yourself needing to attack at a distance you’ll be stuck with the sub-par hammer. The build also has mediocre self-buffing abilities, getting spots of fury from Invocation and some blasts of might from using mace 2 into mace 3. For overworld movement, you’ll end up running Rapid Flow and using unyielding anguish every 5 seconds.
The power build runs herald natively, though it does quite a bit less damage at 26k to 27k unrealistic. Roughly a 20% cut. But, if you’re traveling with a newbie group or a group that has poor buffing abilities, the support of the power build can easily carry a team.
Armor: Full Berserker, Runes of the Scholar
Weapons: Sword +X, whatever weapon swap you want. Sword main hand is the only requirement, other weapons are used as needed. Sigil of Air + Sigil of Force
Dragon Stance + Dwarf Stance.
Specializations:
Devastation: Vicious Lacerations, Assassin’s Presence, Swift Termination.
Invocation: Whatever Adept, Incensed Response, Rolling Mists.
Herald: Radiant Revival, Shared Empowerment, Elder’s Focus.
Again, the rotation of the build is simple. Use precision strikes and elemental blast when they’re off cooldown. Use unrelenting assault to avoid attacks and build might. Otherwise, auto attack with the sword. Use Vengeful Hammers while in Dwarf stance, Facet of Darkness and Strength while in dragon stance. This build can easily build yourself up to max might, while also giving out plenty of self healing and vulnerability.
If you’re in a group that already gives out permanent might and fury, Facet of Chaos is good to give group protection. Keep Facet of Elements on as long as possible. A lot of people use Staff for the weapon swap because it has a great CC skill, but Hammer is also good for when you need to engage at range. The hammer DPS rotation is to use Coalescence of Ruin and Phase Smash at maximum distance whenever they are off cooldown.
The weaknesses of the build are its somewhat low DPS, and also it’s lack of AoE damage. If the enemies are gathered tightly for cleave there is no issue, but if the enemies are even slightly spread out, you’ll find yourself only hitting one or two at a time. If you need extra blocks, you can run shield in the swap off-hand spot for extra invulnerability.
Both builds are sufficient for… basically whatever you want to do in PVE. You might find it hard to be accepted to raid groups on the power build, but it isn’t impossible to complete raids with it.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
NPE has no bearing on unids.
Sure it does. UnID gear is the worst solution to gear. I don’t get to see what my reward is unless I take the time to complete a heart and then pay an exorbitant ransom. Or I can take my UnID gear and simply salvage or sell it all without ever knowing what it could have been. Sounds terrible.
There is no phantom award being withheld from you. Your reward is the unid, which you have the option to gamble on or sell/salvage. You are not indebted to gamble.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
Unless QT has said something otherwise, PVE is pretty similar to regular engineer:
Full Zerker Gear. Runes of the Scholar. Sigil of Force + Sigil of lightning. Hammer.
Explosives: Glass Cannon, Aim Assisted Rocket, any grandmaster.
Firearms: High Caliber, Pinpoint Distribution/No Scope, Modified Ammunition.
Scrapper: Perfectly Waited, Mass Momentum, Applied Force.
Utilities: Healing Turret, Grenade Kit, Bomb Kit, Spare utility slot, whatever elite.
To get the most out of the the DPS scrapper, it is all about knowing when to use the right skills and traits:
If you’re by yourself, No Scope is best. With a group, Pinpoint Distribution is the best. For the grandmaster explosives line, Orbital Strike is the safe option since it works wherever. Shrapnel is good if you’re in a group that can max out might. Mine Trail is good if you’re going to be constantly dodging through the enemy.
For weapon use, you’ll want to use the hammer if you don’t have maximum might. If you do have max might, the bomb kit will do more damage. At max might, use Fire Bomb. If you don’t have quickness, Rocket Charge is a DPS increase, but if you do have quickness then Rocket Charge is neutral damage. Use Electro Whirl whenever it is convenient. Thunderclap is also a high DPS skill, but it is also part of your CC chain, so whether you should fire it off whenever or save for breaking bars is your choice. If you have max might + quickness, you’ll want to camp the bomb kit, except to switch out to use Thunderclap and Electro Whirl whenever Thunderclap is off cooldown.
The grenade kit is mostly for it’s toolbelt skill, but it is also a ranged option. Shrapnel Grenade, Freeze Grenade, and Poison Grenade are DPS skills. Only use them in your rotation if you have Shrapnel and max might, otherwise stick to hammer/bomb kit for DPS. Using grenades as part of the regular rotation adds a lot of difficulty for little gain, so personally I don’t do it but it is an option. The toolbelt skills you’ll want to use whenever they are off cooldown are Big Ole Bomb and Grenade Barrage.
The last utility changes depending on circumstance. Rifle Turret is the highest DPS, since Surprise Shot is the highest DPS skill we have. Battering Ram is for breaking bars. Bulwark Gyro is for defense, but the reflects it gives can do damage. Elixir Gun works as a stun breaker, and it also has some utility and a DPS skill in Acid Bomb. The elite skills are… meh. The mortar kit is good for it’s blind fields. The supply crate and elixir x are for CC, and I prefer the supply crate. Stealth Gyro has utility.
To CC an enemy, you’ll want to drop Thunderclap, then Big Ole Bomb, then use Rocket Charge inside of Thunderclap for the daze leap finishers. If you have battering ram, use the launch ram toolbelt then the utility after Big Ole Bomb, and you should still have time to use Rocket Charge in the lightning field. If the skills are on cooldown or it is inconvenient to use them, drop the Supply Crate and let the turrets do their work for a bit.
The power scrapper is only about 10% weaker than power engi at peak circumstances. In realistic circumstances it is much harder to say. But, the important thing is that this trade comes with a perk through the function gyro. You can rez people at a distance, even in dangerous areas, without stopping your rotation. Use it liberally.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I’m wondering if we’re really losing anything. If unidentified gear stacks, then how can the game identify which one is an exotic and which isn’t? Is there a secret, unseen list that keeps track of the identity of the items that have yet to be claimed?
From the sound of things, unidentified gear is just another die roll that drops on top of the kinds of drops you would normally get. Is there any proof that we’re missing out on rare and exotic drops that we otherwise would’ve gotten?
There is no list, it’s more RNG. The phrase “missing out on rares/exotics” is to indicate that if we salvage unids, those might have ID’d into rares or exotic.
In that case, I do not see the problem. If something we previously earned is being taken away due to unids, then there would be a problem. But if it is an additional system added on to loot that people are complaining about gambling on, then that is strictly an opt-in system. I’m going to salvage all my unids and never look back.
I’ve yet to see a definitive statement from anyone which suggests that we will still get the normal chance at rares and exotics as we get elsewhere. All I got was blue and green normal drops, but that might be due to a relatively small sample size.
It’s the other way around. You’ll have to prove that we’re losing out on drops elsewhere with the unids. It is a bit defeatists to assume a new system is inherently ripping you off via hidden changes to loot ratios mentioned nowhere.
This is ANet we’re talking about, remember. NPE? Adept traits available at L36 that unlocked in L60 areas? “Every player by level 80 should have max stat gear?” Not enough MP’s to be able to fully progress and avoid niche content on HoT launch.
I always, always, always assume the worst. That way I won’t be disappointed.
For me, the system kittens kitten. If I got an Unid’d drop I did not get a regular one at the same time. Paying to ID plus do heart plus go to vendor makes it more clicking and more tedious. If PoF needs to resort to this lame gimmick to keep people playing, ANet has sunk to a new low.
NPE has no bearing on unids. That aside, it is obvious that unids would be dropped into the loot table, and as gear it would be exclusive with other forms of gear when they are dropped. I’m wondering about the dubious claim that we’re missing out on rares and exotics because of unids. If unids just occupy the loot space that fine and masterwork used to, or if unids occupy some other space like junk drops and bags, then the loot chance for rares and exotics will be untouched.
If anything, it means the chance to get rares and exotics will increase, since we’re getting both the loot roll and the unid roll to loot one.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I’m wondering if we’re really losing anything. If unidentified gear stacks, then how can the game identify which one is an exotic and which isn’t? Is there a secret, unseen list that keeps track of the identity of the items that have yet to be claimed?
From the sound of things, unidentified gear is just another die roll that drops on top of the kinds of drops you would normally get. Is there any proof that we’re missing out on rare and exotic drops that we otherwise would’ve gotten?
There is no list, it’s more RNG. The phrase “missing out on rares/exotics” is to indicate that if we salvage unids, those might have ID’d into rares or exotic.
In that case, I do not see the problem. If something we previously earned is being taken away due to unids, then there would be a problem. But if it is an additional system added on to loot that people are complaining about gambling on, then that is strictly an opt-in system. I’m going to salvage all my unids and never look back.
I’ve yet to see a definitive statement from anyone which suggests that we will still get the normal chance at rares and exotics as we get elsewhere. All I got was blue and green normal drops, but that might be due to a relatively small sample size.
It’s the other way around. You’ll have to prove that we’re losing out on drops elsewhere with the unids. It is a bit defeatists to assume a new system is inherently ripping you off via hidden changes to loot ratios mentioned nowhere.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
There is no list, it’s more RNG. The phrase “missing out on rares/exotics” is to indicate that if we salvage unids, those might have ID’d into rares or exotic.
In that case, I do not see the problem. If something we previously earned is being taken away due to unids, then there would be a problem. But if it is an additional system added on to loot that people are complaining about gambling on, then that is strictly an opt-in system. I’m going to salvage all my unids and never look back.
But here’s the catch: if you ID’d them, a fair few of them would have been rares or exotics, which you could then salvage for ectos. As it stands, by saving unids, you don’t get those ectos (and over time that will add up to a lot of ectos).
If there’s a net gain to ID the unids, then ID them and don’t worry about it. If there is a net loss, then do not ID them and don’t worry about it.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I’m wondering if we’re really losing anything. If unidentified gear stacks, then how can the game identify which one is an exotic and which isn’t? Is there a secret, unseen list that keeps track of the identity of the items that have yet to be claimed?
From the sound of things, unidentified gear is just another die roll that drops on top of the kinds of drops you would normally get. Is there any proof that we’re missing out on rare and exotic drops that we otherwise would’ve gotten?
There is no list, it’s more RNG. The phrase “missing out on rares/exotics” is to indicate that if we salvage unids, those might have ID’d into rares or exotic.
In that case, I do not see the problem. If something we previously earned is being taken away due to unids, then there would be a problem. But if it is an additional system added on to loot that people are complaining about gambling on, then that is strictly an opt-in system. I’m going to salvage all my unids and never look back.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I’m wondering if we’re really losing anything. If unidentified gear stacks, then how can the game identify which one is an exotic and which isn’t? Is there a secret, unseen list that keeps track of the identity of the items that have yet to be claimed?
From the sound of things, unidentified gear is just another die roll that drops on top of the kinds of drops you would normally get. Is there any proof that we’re missing out on rare and exotic drops that we otherwise would’ve gotten?
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
From what I’ve seen doing the HoT metas and doing fractals, Necromancer is the most commonly played class. Second is either ranger or thief. Least played is Engineer, specifically Scrapper.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I listed my build but it is basically the QT build.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I noticed it. Only got about 25k with unrealistic buffs, no food. I was convinced I was just doing something wrong.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
but it does not synchronise with glint heal as you want to get hit when you use it.
but i guess it’s all about getting the crappy traits skills ready for renegade so sales are good.
Honestly this is such a design over sight it’s embarrassing.
You mean like Herald trait that provides protection on heal skill use?
He means Facet of Light. It heals you for the damage you take, and the dome only appears when you consume facet of light. It contradicts pretty hard, since the dome minimizes damage at a point where you want to take as much damage as possible.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
Not quite a QT benchmark, since I didn’t use food. But I’ve done some things.
EDIT: One weakness of my analysis is I didn’t factor in quickness. With permanent quickness, Mine Trail is roughly equal to Shrapnel, maybe slightly weaker.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
In PVE, the casual engi play has gone up in performance. The more hardcore engi has gone down, losing peak performance.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
Unless I’m doing it wrong, I’m only getting about 25k DPS, unrealistic buffs and no food, stationary target. Mobile target, 27k DPS. With the recent food nerf, I have a hard time seeing us break 30k with condi.
Full ascended viper, berserker runes, smoldering + geomancy sigils, using the previous meta condi build pre-patch (Devastation 1, 3, 1, Invocation 2, 1, 1, Corruption 3, 2, 1).
They are doing at least 30k:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhr5Yy4x1gM
Guess x4 nightmare x2 trapper is the new meta. That’s the only meaningful difference between mine and theirs.
EDIT: Yep. Just checked. With canned WvW food I’m getting 29k DPS.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
(edited by Blood Red Arachnid.2493)
Personally, I go with…
Armor: Full Berserker. 6 Runes of the Scholar. Sigil of Force / Lightning on all weapons.
Weapons: Sword/Sword + Hammer. Though a lot of people run staff instead of hammer for CC, personally I always like having a ranged weapon option. The only mandatory thing is at least one main-hand sword. Use Dragon Stance and Dwarf Stance.
Specializations
Devastation: Vicious Lacerations, Assassin’s Presence, Swift Termination.
Invocation: Cleansing Channel, Incensed Response, Rolling Mists
Herald: Radiant Revival, Shared Empowerment, Elder’s Focus
Rotation:
Use Precision Strikes when it is off cooldown.
Use Unrelenting Assault as a dodge, but also to gain might if you aren’t capped.
When roaming around, sit in dragon stance with all 3 utility facets up.
When you enter into a fight, activate facet of nature, pop off facet of elements, then immediately swap to dwarf and use vengeful hammers. Swap legends whenever possible, using Precision Strikes and Facet of Elements when they’re off cooldown.
All in all the rotation is fairly low maintenance. It is also highly consistent damage. There is actually a lot of leeway in how you play the class. For example:
If you’re by yourself, you can use Assassin’s Stance instead of Dwarf, using Impossible Odds to give yourself quickness. If you’re on a team that already peaks might and fury, you can use Facet of Chaos instead of the other ones to give everyone protection.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.