Guild Wars 2

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

Everyone just stay calm!

but all the cool kids panic

you don’t want me to be lame do you

Conncept.7638:

One with Fire should be changed so that flame barriers chance increases the longer you are in fire as well as persisting for a certain amount of time after swapping attunements.

Flame Barrier would be pretty useless even if it functioned like a Fire Aura, because:

1: We already have access to plenty of Burning.

2: Getting hit is a terrible idea when playing as the class with the lowest defense in the game. (Even bunkers rely on avoiding and healing through damage, so sitting in Fire and facetanking ain’t an option.)

3: Even if you’re running a condition build, you’ll want to remain in Earth as much as possible to stack Bleeding.

4: It’s limited to freakin’ melee range.

Heh, it’s even more fun barely being able to get breathing room as a staff ele due to Infiltrator’s Strike spam – only CC that even affects them is Static Field.

Run away/LoS and heal with my scepter/dagger burst build. Decent burst damage about every 15 seconds and nothing else doesn’t do much to ’em.

Nah, that’s normal, Dragon’s Tooth is player-targeted and doesn’t require line-of-sight.

inb4 nerf to one of the worst skills in the game

The removal of the AoE ca kitten omething a lot of people agree on, it’s not just a staff ele thing. As it is, a small group will have their damage artificially lowered against a large group due to the AoE cap, while the large group suffers far less; the removal of the cap would force zergs to spread out and maneuver intelligently rather than run straight into danger.
I’d worry more about stacking Kill Shot warriors than staff eles, even if the staff’s attacks become harder to avoid.

However, I believe a dev has commented that the AoE cap is in place due to technical limitations, so there’s that.

• “Cap <is> something” is censored. Wow.

I want a ranged option for elementalists that behaves like a warrior’s rifle.

I mean, c’mon, warriors are supposed to be the most melee-dependent class in the game, and they get that monstrous conduit of ranged single-target damage?

I’m tired of the scepter only offering decent ranged damage in the Air attunement when geared heavily for offense; my Static Discharge engi operates on pretty much the same principles as my scepter/dagger burst ele, but the former is much more effective at range (and also boasts more survivability and damage, but that’s another topic).

inb4 4k Lightning Strikes in WvW

Ralathar.7236:

Chaosky.5276:

How do I put this… I’d actually forgotten about the staff when I typed that, and was thinking of some kinda dagger/focus chill build. Despite referring to the staff in the next sentence. Uh, so, yeah, you can just ignore that.

You can do either

Can’t agree with you there. The advantage to a chill build like that is frequent application to a large number of targets; you aren’t going to survive if you dive into a zerg if the players have any idea of what they’re doing, and in small engagements you’d be better off running a more standard build.

Ralathar.7236:

Chaosky.5276:

What purpose does a condition ele serve, though? They have less AoE, and they actually need to struggle against the class mechanic to play a condition build (switch to water to heal, you’ve got about 9 seconds at best, probably more like 13, until you can really start dealing damage again).

Both Earth and Fire have condition options. Admittedly though for scepter fire is bad and needs buffs, hopefully they will do that one day.

Thing is, Burning doesn’t stack in intensity, so you’ll always lose a ton of damage when switching from the Earth attunement. You can get burning out of skills like Signet of Fire, anyway.

Ralathar.7236:

Chaosky.5276:

Also, what role would you fulfill if not using the staff in WvW? With the reduction in mobility, there’s not much reason to choose an ele over a thief or ranger for roaming (inb4 Fiery Greatsword). I mean, I have fun with a glassy scepter/dagger build, but it’s not particularly good at anything in any game mode.

S/D is good at small scale, D/D or D/F can be almost as useful at staff in larger battles. Obviously Staff trumps everything for zerg vs zerg though. Which is one reason I scoff at everyone trying to buff staff.

But honestly maybe people don’t want to play only X, Y, Z build every time they log on. Maybe they are 10%-20% less effective overall but we also play the game for fun. Someone that doesn’t even want to play because they will have to play the exact same thing every single time is 100% less effective. Otherwise you’d have nothing but staff ele’s, guardians, hammer/sword/horn/shout warriors, etc in WvW.

Yeah, that was kind of a pointless argument; most classes only have about one role they’re effective at in WvW, it doesn’t really speak to build diversity.

Vaugh.7193:

Galrond.5972:

Are we playing the same game? Or do you have a more deadly lava?

Im sure we play the same game. It is a deadly combo to immobilze oppenent, put lava under his feets, makeing him burn then fire fireballs. The opponent has to have condition remover and a heal ready to survive that kind of nuke, even with cleric set.

No, we’re definitely talking about different games. You’d get, what, maybe 5k damage out of that?

Ralathar.7236:

Yes, you can apply chill to entire groups of people for long duration quite easily and you have many skills to choose from. Choosing to pursue that also leaves your stats open to be quite tanky. Mobility is key in WvW which is why Frozen Ground is so powerful from staff. By going tanky and focusing on chilling the enemy (You can literally have chill on more utilities than you can even equip by far) you give up alot of damage but you increase the damage of your zerg. I understand most people don’t understand that interrelation as it doesn’t give you any direct feedback that you helped, but it’s there. It also buffs the cripples, burns, bleeds, immobilizes, etc you have available as you are getting max condition duration.

How do I put this… I’d actually forgotten about the staff when I typed that, and was thinking of some kinda dagger/focus chill build. Despite referring to the staff in the next sentence. Uh, so, yeah, you can just ignore that.

Ralathar.7236:

Elementalists also have more than just scepter as an option for condition. D/D can apply significant condition damage. As can D/F as a tankier alternative. Both can cause severe disruption and still be pretty tanky too.

I agree that staff is still more effective in many cases. But the other options are definitely effective as well. You don’t throw everything else out just because one might be a little better in general.

What purpose does a condition ele serve, though? They have less AoE, and they actually need to struggle against the class mechanic to play a condition build (switch to water to heal, you’ve got about 9 seconds at best, probably more like 13, until you can really start dealing damage again).

Also, what role would you fulfill if not using the staff in WvW? With the reduction in mobility, there’s not much reason to choose an ele over a thief or ranger for roaming (inb4 Fiery Greatsword). I mean, I have fun with a glassy scepter/dagger build, but it’s not particularly good at anything in any game mode.

Most of the lesser-used builds eles have are reliant on teammates to support you and/or don’t effectively fill a particular role. That sounds like an accurate description of the little-used builds of other classes to me.

Ralathar.7236:

I’ve played a vast variety of Ele builds and quite simply they work in WvW. Not all work as roamer of course, but I have viable and important roles as each spec used correctly. This cannot be said of most professions to anywhere near the same degree.

Chill build? Condition build? You’d be of more use to your team by just doing jumping puzzles all day to get siege. In WvW elementalists are no longer effective in any role beyond support with a staff, and in sPvP there’s not much point in taking a non-bunker ele.

I can make a scepter/dagger condition build work, but it’ll be far from effective, especially in WvW. I’ve made Berserker’s staff work against decent players in sPvP, but that doesn’t mean anyone in their right mind would want me on their team.

It’s not even a matter of builds being super competitive at the top level of play; almost every class has a few builds that outperform their others by light-years, meaning that they’re at a significant disadvantage if they don’t use specific builds, and elementalists are no exception.

I’ve suggested this a number of times. It’s not like the Arcana traits aren’t absurdly good anyway.

/agree

Ralathar.7236:

Chaosky.5276:

1: Why do eles have to be the only class that can’t select an AoE/support option without giving up solo capability? (You can heal through damage with a staff, but you’re not going to kill anyone decent.)

2: We don’t have any other weapon that is effective at range (unless you consider taking the scepter and spamming air #1 and #2 with Berserker’s gear “effective”), so what sense would it make to intentionally design the staff to be terrible 1v1?

1. Because it’s the only class with anything even approaching that much AOE capability, much less from range. AOE damage of significant degrees, alot of AOE CC, AOE healing. No other class even comes close to the amount of AOE ele’s have.

True enough, but doesn’t such a limitation seem like a poor design choice when the goal for the Elementalist class is versatility? I’d much rather have the option to make a half support and half solo build.

Ralathar.7236:

2. Your right, we have middling single target effectiveness at range with staff and scepter, but incredible effectiveness up close and great AOE power.

Overall we have greater capabilities than all other classes in select areas, so we give up a little capability in a few areas. It’s not like we are overly bad at range either. We are not, we are just moderate at range instead of good or great. We certainly are more capable than Guardian at range by far, so I’d say we are not the only class.

I’m utterly baffled as to what advantages we have over other classes other than healing. It’s certainly not damage, nor mobility. …Engineers and necromancers have comparable AoE damage, guardians possess comparable CC and survivability, and possibly superior support capability…

Ralathar.7236:

The problem isn’t that staff cannot be made to be better at 1 vs 1 mind you. The problem is that if staff becomes good at 1 vs 1 without giving anything up staff will undeniably become overpowered. If you nerf other aspects to give it 1 vs 1 power you have just screwed over countless people for your own personal desires and that is quite frankly selfish and hypocritical. They matter as much as you after all.

I have a difficult time imagining that the changes to the staff in the OP would suddenly make it a great solo weapon. Nonetheless, this is a fair point, and I would hardly be the first to suggest a trait a bit like Blasting Staff that would weaken the staff’s AoE capability in exchange for more effectiveness against single targets.

Speaking as one who plays a glassy build, Attunement Recharge Rate is absolutely the top reason I take points in arcana; I also really want traits like Elemental Attunement and Renewing Stamina, of course, and boon duration is nice, but being locked out of skills when I need them pretty much means death.

Ralathar.7236:

Staff is obviously not intended to be a 1 vs 1 weapon. It can function as a 1 vs 1 weapon but is weaker than other options. However it also has much more AOE power. You can’t have both. I’m sorry it doesn’t sPVP well, there are two other thirds of the game it does fine in though.

I carry scepter/dagger around for when I expect small scale engagements in PVP but I’ve held my own well with staff in numerous 1 vs 1 situations I’ve encountered. Yes someone specialized in 1 vs 1 will beat me most likely if I’m caught in staff, but I also contribute far more to team fighting than them.

1: Why do eles have to be the only class that can’t select an AoE/support option without giving up solo capability? (You can heal through damage with a staff, but you’re not going to kill anyone decent.)

2: We don’t have any other weapon that is effective at range (unless you consider taking the scepter and spamming air #1 and #2 with Berserker’s gear “effective”), so what sense would it make to intentionally design the staff to be terrible 1v1?

ThiBash.5634:

Henge.3907:

Yep, leveled an Eles to 80. Wanted to use staff but its terrible. Never really played him since.

Gotta disagree here. I feel less useful if I play anything other than staff in group play. The combo fields by themselves are pretty awesome, and it has a lot of fun tricks.

Pretty sure an ele’s staff is the only weapon in the game which destroys all solo capability when selected. Engis and necros don’t need to sacrifice solo survivability to be effective in zerg battles, either.

Fiery Greatsword, Evasive Arcana in the water attunement, Ether Renewal, Cantrips up the *** (I recommend Cleansing Fire, Lightning Flash, and Armor of Earth).

Have fun being annoying.

bladie.5084:

“We are now 4/5th most mobile class in game”

Thieves, rangers, and warriors are all more mobile than us, so yes, we are ranked 4th in mobility at best.

Who even cares about those bunker eles that run into zergs? They either run away shortly after diving in, or die and attempt to Vapor Form away, and only idiots chase after them.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Hilariously enough, have you spent any time over on the Necro forum? Most of the posts there are about how useless and underpowered the Necro is. Not to say that I agree with them. I just find it interesting how everyone’s convinced their profession is underpowered, except maybe Guardians.

Well, most professions are underpowered in certain aspects of the game. For example, warriors are great in PvE, but poor in sPvP, and thieves are great in WvW, but poor in sPvP.

The funny thing about necros is that they’re probably the best zerg-buster in WvW, but their poor mobility makes them terrible roamers in the same game mode.

Leo G.4501:

Not talking about damage (that can vary depending on circumstances and terrain). I’m talking about the ignorant adds:
-Why would you expect an evade (same as a dodge) to be some sort of long range escape? It’s meant to dodge while moving you away from a target, not leap you 1000+ range away.
-If you can’t hit more than 5 targets with Meteor Shower, that’s your problem.
-If you can’t hit someone with ice spike, which has a hefty radius without Blasting Staff, that’s your problem.
-If you can’t hit a target with a 1200 range attack that isn’t a projectile, that’s your problem.

Also, Shockwave is a line immobilize + bleed although it’s also a slowish projectile so can be dodged but it’s also pretty wide.

IMO, Staff is best when paired with lots of condition duration as it can apply lots of conditions in an AoE. It’s not a dueling weapon, it’s a support weapon.

Burning Retreat is clearly meant to be used for escaping/mobility, so why can’t it function more like a mesmer’s Phase Retreat?

Ice Spike is really easy to avoid.

I agree that the other points aren’t accurate, but I ask you this: Why must staff elementalists be restricted to a support role when other classes can offer both support and solo capability?

Leo G.4501:

stale.9785:

Fixed that for you, so people don’t get the wrong idea about staves.

Well sorry you suck at staff…

Then please enlighten us as to how we can improve; I’m most interested to learn how skill can make attacks hit harder. Also, personally, I don’t think being forced to use Static Field or something just for a chance to get moderate damage out of an AoE attack makes for effective combat, but maybe I’m just bad.

• Staff
  Fire: Damage in general.
  Water: Healing and CC.
  Air: CC and mobility.
  Earth: Condition damage and CC.

• Scepter/Dagger and Scepter/Focus
  Fire: Burst damage.
  Water: Healing and CC.
  Air: Single target damage and CC (mobility with offhand dagger), as well as minor defense with a blind.
  Earth: Condition damage and defense (CC with an offhand dagger).

• Dagger/Dagger and Dagger/Focus
  Fire: Damage in general and minor mobility.
  Water: Healing and CC.
  Air: CC (Mobility with offhand dagger.)
  Earth: Condition damage, CC, and minor mobility (defense with a focus, as well).

Y’know, our different attunements don’t mean much when we’re forced to switch between them due to weak autoattacks, long cooldowns, and bonuses for swapping attunements, instead of using them for specific situations.

Ruruuiye.8912:

snip

K.

Now imagine trying to play a zerker necro with a heal that heals for about 3k more and applies regen, but also with lower health and no Death Shroud.

You might see why I’m upset about the changes to RtL and Mist Form, which were the primary defensive mechanics for glassy builds. The s/d build I run still works okay, but it’s frustrating that the weak ele builds were nerfed along with the strong ones.

ThiBash.5634:

In short, I wouldn’t swap weapons or cast conjures solely for the range. I’d pick a conjure that actually does something different. If it has a better range, then great, but not just for the range.

Just pointing out that I literally never play d/d because I can’t stand being restricted to close range, and that my main gripe about the ele is the lack of viable ranged options.

I’d like this…

…If it were a cost-free way for me to try out builds that aren’t possible in sPvP.

You can try a Cleric’s bunker with Cleansing Water, if you don’t mind your only purpose being to remove conditions.

Wait, lol, they nerfed Cleansing Water in sPvP, never mind.

I got nothin’.

Thor Rising.7850:

There is no ramp up on air 1. The final hit is the entire damage of the full channel. That’s how all channel skills work that do multiple hits.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arc_Lightning

On the 4th hit it starts doing double damage, and about triple with the 7th-10th. It’s difficult to tell because of the way channeled damage is displayed, though.

Thor Rising.7850:

Water trident has an extremely small amount of healing and damage, its almost a useless spell. I would rather see it replaced with a dedicated healing spell.

Not disagreeing with the rest of your post, but I’m pretty sure Water Trident is the best burst healing skill eles have. Its damage component may as well be nonexistent, though.

Frankly, I’m not even sure how the Elementalist can be considered versatile; the class lacks ranged versatility, and we’re encouraged to swap attunements constantly, rather than to use them for specific purposes (aside from the water attunement, which has a relatively well-defined role of healing).

Not to mention that eles’ defensive mechanic is healing, which pretty much forces us to spec for healing, severely limiting build diversity, etc.

That said, I don’t think any other class has the sustainability of a bunker elementalist.

Only ways to properly set up Dragon’s Tooth are to use Signet of Earth’s 3 second immobilize or for the enemy to run out of endurance (weakness from the Glyph of Elemental Power might help), and then for you to CC them, .

I really advise against taking those Signets, and instead suggest going for Cantrips and/or Arcane utilities (and/or GoEP, SoE). Also, you won’t have much luck against mesmers with that build because you lack AoE damage, your damage is fairly slow, and it’s pretty poor outside of the fire and air attunements, which is a major problem with only 10 points in Arcana.

Blaine Tog.8304:

In general, I think the Elementalist is an underpowered profession that can exploit a few specific overpowered abilities to do very well when specced a specific way. This is bad. It kills build diversity and makes the Ele very difficult to fix because any power you add to peripheral specs is probably going to get stolen and magnified by the OP abilities.

This.

I really wish that the devs would actually let us in on the changes they have in mind, though, rather than blanket-nerfing the class and and retreating to observe the effects for the next month or two.

If you plan to use the staff in a group, you’ll be fine. It’s probably the worst 1v1 option in the game, though

I primarily play WvW, so I’m a measly 17.

I’m pretty sure PvE exists only for leveling and farming gold for siege weaponry and upgrades.

Smooth Marc.8743:

By dps ele i mean scepter/dagger or dagger/dagger.Weapon skill healing,healing ripple ,soothing mist,regen and self healing is more than enough to keep you alive in a 1v1 fight

I run Berserker’s scepter/dagger (in SPvP, WvW gear is different, of course), and I can tell you that against enemies that can survive your burst and hit you back for at least moderate damage (a.k.a. every dueling spec and nearly every bunker), you’re going to need to break line-of-sight or disengage to heal up.

If I go for a more balanced build, then yes, my healing is pretty good, but without a massive focus on offense my ranged damage is terrible, and I refuse to close to melee range simply to be functional.

Half Tooth.1867:

I can see how that is useful, but situational stuff always has that drawback of being absolutely brilliant in a specific situation whilst being barely used the majority of the time.

Windborne Speed is situational; Static Field is what you use pretty much on cooldown to get your AoEs to hit.

Akbaroth.2861:

EDIT: it also doesn’t help that a LOT of staff eles use the ‘Balsting Staff’ (arcana viii) trait which widens the area of most staff spells. fireball specifically is increased to 120.

Does any staff ele not take Blasting Staff? It’s hard enough to hit enemies with the freakin’ trait.

Kontrolle.3514:

Obviously you dont play it alot then?
1. incendary powder nerf is extrem, its a brutal dropp in dps for condition builds
2. confusion/retaliation cut in half.

I’d hardly consider the change to Incendiary Powder a “brutal” loss in DPS for condition builds. It’s annoying for HGH builds, but it’s really only harmful to Flamethrower Kit builds, which were pretty much nonexistent anyway.

As for the confusion/retaliation nerf, the damage has just been brought down to its level in SPvP, which is the format the game is balanced around, anyway.

Kontrolle.3514:

And fiery greatsword IS better then supplydropp because it does a very huge amount of damage

my sides I can’t stop laughing help

Kontrolle.3514:

AND provides you with phenomenal mobility on top of that you can share it.

Supplycrate is nice for 1v1 right but thats about it. It doesnt help me to escape the zerg, it doesnt do tons of damage, it can be countered so easaly like pressing 2 buttons on a D/D ele.

True, the Fiery Greatsword provides what is possibly the greatest mobility in the game. The best part about the Supply Crate is the stun+immobilize, though, so you don’t really need to worry about the turrets being destroyed.

Kontrolle.3514:

Are you guys really trying to argue with me? I have full equipped ele/engineer since ~5 months, so do me a favor and stop babbling. You dont even know how hard enginers was hit the last 2 patches so just inform yourselves before you try to teach me thx.

A side note: jes i only play WvW because spvp is… dont have to say anything right?

I play an engi. You simply aren’t making logical sense, saying you quit your engi this patch, when the class recieved an overall buff, rather than back when Kit Refinement was nerfed, and that Conjure Fiery Greatsword is better than Supply Drop.

Kontrolle.3514:

I switched to D/D ele from engineer because compared to the laughable D/D Ele nerf engineers got literally kitten by the nerfbat. Meanwhile i laugh at all the tears here…

Imagine they would have deleted evaisive arcane, elemental attunement got a 20 icd and 30% of your dmg abillitys got cut in half. Thats just half of the treatment engineers got since release. So your crying looks a little bit ridiculous.

Engis saw some pretty decent buffs to Healing Turret (Hooray for Static Discharge builds!) and Elixir U with the last patch, and only the nerf to Elixir S really hurts, yet eles got hit by that, too. This seems like an odd time to quit.

Personally, I can’t stand being restricted to melee range, so I don’t play dagger/dagger; I generally run Berserker’s scepter/dagger so I can actually do some ranged damage.
With that in mind, I’m most upset by the recent patch due to the devs’ apparent disregard for anything that isn’t effectively a melee bunker build (s/d is still mostly restricted to melee range).

Kontrolle.3514:

I made just 1 little adaption, i change the elite to fiery greatsword, thats it.
And lol this is one powerful elite.

Very powerful, if your enemies are standing next to a wall; otherwise, it’s really only good for mobility. If you’re referring to the damage of Flame Wave, that’s a 2 3/4 second channel, so its damage is rather lackluster.

24/7 2fort dm servers are best servers

I mean Kyhlo dm

Thrashbarg.9820:

Technically, yes, okay, there was that. Explaining the functions of a mechanic.

If you quote only one sentence from a post it’s easy to take it out of context. The sentence before that indicated my doubt that a developer would comment on this topic, which is asking for reasoning behind a change, not simply a mechanical definition of a skill function.

Perhaps that sentence was slight hyperbole, but one very simple comment in a week defining a technical change is hardly regular interaction. I respect the hard work the developers do and realize they can’t come to the forums all the time, but it seems like they are severely limited in what they are allowed to even discuss with the public.

You’re taking my post entirely too seriously.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Our forum hasn’t seen a developer in so long I can’t even remember.

Yikes, you might wanna get your memory checked out, because we had a dev comment on the Cleansing Water change within the last week.

A very, very mundane topic, but they posted.

Escthiil.3210:

If you ask me, in my humble opinion, Mist Form is in a perfectly good place at the moment because after all, the ability to heal while bring invulnerable pre-nerf was a tad overpowered whether you wish to admit it or not.

Eh, the main use it seems to have now is avoiding ranged burst damage, so I’d rather take any other Cantrips for their greater versatility. Elixir S works a bit better for engis due to their larger health pools (for dealing with conditions) and the lack of other good damage-avoidance options.

Loco.4561:

I might start playing my ele again now it’s been balanced down a bit, might be more of a challenge.

Offensive 0/20/0/20/30 staff seemed pretty tough to me before the patch, but I guess I’m just bad.

Buff focus, nerf sustainability of offhand dagger.

Bunker mobility issue solved, and glassy eles can get their 20 second cooldown disengage back.

-Berserker’s elementalist

ChaosTerragoth.4738:

text

I just find it amusing that you assumed you were about the only person who made an effort to create new builds.

When two elementalists cross each other’s path while using Ride the Lightning, total protonic reversal now occurs, vaporizing everything on a given map.

Dat One with Fire.

So worth its place as a master trait, amirite?

I like to play Berserker’s scepter/dagger.

I barely have access to swiftness in combat (using Updraft for swiftness is a terrible idea, because I’m so glassy that I need the CC), so I rely on RtL to get close enough for my fire skills to hit, but now it’s much less likely to be ready when I need it.

Also, if I can’t break line-of-sight, I pretty much need to disengage to heal, but apparently Anet doesn’t want me doing that.

So no, not too happy here.

Turn around and use Updraft, swap to staff and use Windborne Speed (Static Field as well, if you’ve got a blast finisher like Arcane Wave handy), switch to fire and turn around to use Burning Retreat, switch to mainhand dagger to use Burning Speed (it’s only a 15 second cooldown), switch to air, make use of Elemental Attunement until any of those skills come off cooldown.

You can also use the Glyph of Elemental Harmony and Signet of Air if there’s any remaining downtime on Swiftness.

Also, if you’ve got 10 points in Air Magic, you can swap to/make use of Zephyr’s Boon.