@Cromx
Coop in what way? Questing and Dynamic Events are full of people working together in one way or another. I have never played a game where I have worked/played with so many other players. This may just be while everyone and their dog is playing it and it may even out a bit, but still.
The zerg fests can hardly be considered coop play. They are just a bunch of people spamming attacks…its so chaotic and usually thigns die so fast, as everyone simply tries to “tag” as many mobs as possible. There is no strategy no communication, most of the time its hard to tell the difference between players and NPCs.
I don’t consider this coop play in any meaningful sense. Its a sad day when real coop play has been surplanted by 3 minute zergfests. But after all its much easier to make a dynamic event spawn a boss mob or mobs and let people just zerg and kill it for risk free easy experience and call that coop play.
Its like so many companies these days they refuse to take the hard path to making a really meaningful coop game. You have to have good AI good balanced player skill sets, and inspired dunegon design. Its almost like arena net said…heck we can’t do this…so we will just throw in token “dungeons” and people will think we do have it…then we can just drag and drop some dynamic zerg fests into the open zones and call it revolutionary.
I guess I just can’t get to excited about a zerg fest where I might hit a mob or two here and there if I am lucky and then its over before I really udnerstand whats going on. The whole game is missing all the intricacies for coop team play. If you can imagine football with all the players being the same size, no formations, no game plans, no options, no 2 point conversions, field goals…..I mean what kind of borefest would that be to watch? Its the same thing in MMOs, pretty darn boring when you hollow all that away because you don’t feel like trying to make it balanced and fun…..not sure why I am forking over my money then.
I disagree, I think GW2 is a huge step backwards. Certainly for PVE coop play. It has some imporoved elements from other games a more refined feel in some areas, but the whole point of online games it seems to miss….that is to play as a team with other people.
It’s just not there at all…adn I don’t know what kind of lasting community can come from a game with no core coop gameplay. There is PVP…I have not tried, wanted to get to level 80 first…but I doubt i will now. I had hoped dungeon runs would give xp and break the monotony of running around solo. This is not the case. I don’t think I have it in me to level to 80 just running around zones killing the next pez dispensed iteration of a boar over and over.
And dying a lot or zerging to complete the dungeon is not fun even though you can finish it…
No its not. And that is the problem. Every time I die there is absolutely nothing I could have done to prevent it. That is what makes this game really really bad. I die and its plain unavoidable. Getting double or tripled targeted. Getting condition spammed, or one shotted. It makes me want to rage quit everytime in a dungeon.
There really is no challenge in that. Why not make the dungeons difficult without killing us ten thousand times and making us return to spawn over and over? its like the MMO gene is moving backwards with every new iteration…more dumbed down, more solo play, less player intergation. GW2 has moved so far in this direction its quite bad. Support classes and skills are next to useless….all skills on huge cooldowns with minimal effects when used.
I was trying a mesmer mantra build….what a joke…did anyone sit down and press the mantra button at all? If they did they would realize it takes forever to cast….I remeber the GW monk being a fluid active and fun class. No such thing in GW2. It’s so frustrating that they totally dropped the ball on coop play.
Why not have dungeons have AVOIDABLE deaths. I mean get rid of respawn points and spawn zerging and make death something to be avoided, it needs to be much more rare. I think I am gonna just play some SP games I have, I don’t want to just run around zones looking for POIs and krap the whole time. I don’t want to solo and the do a quick rift style zerg here and there.
The whole game has no AI balance at all. Just mobs sprinkled around everywhere. The PVE side of this game is in bad bad shape, and the leveling curve painfully long….I imagine at 80 there is absolutely nothing to do buy /quit. Ny gut feelign told me when they removed the defined roles that it would break the coop PVE side of things….but it was arena net so I assumed they had done something to make it work.
This is not the case, no tank role means mobs everywhere roaming and murdering people with impunity. No healer class means when you are low on life you are just gonna die. And without healers and tank the DPS classes are going to be fodder over and over. The thing is everyone has roles….in war we have ground to air aircraft. forward recons elements, heavy armor, fast attack copters…..in basketball you have point guards, power forwards, centers……why remove it from a game? What were they expecting?
No I have the same experience thus far. If I spec anything other than vitality and toughness especially. It turns into a zergfest…people all downed and dying and running back. It gets so bad people stop even trying to pick up the downed folks as the only way to complete is to do as much DPS as you can before being downed and killed and running back.
The fact you are actually able to spawn rush the boss mobs…shows that by design arena net expected this kind of a zergfest. A lot of game don’t even allow you to run back like that on boss mobs. In this game it is not only encouraged but expected.
yea it was a zergfest with our group and we ran mostly naked because we died too many times and at the end we didn’t care about our armor because we can get killed by just two or three hits especially from the mini boss and boss.
Oh yeah I am not sure what purpose armor serves in PVE dungeons. You are going to get decimated if a mobs attacks one way or the other. The only thing that can save you is dodging really.
People say it takes more finesse or skill, but when you have to put in more effort to do worse or the same damage as other professions something is wrong.
Yeah this is the real issue. The illusion summoning is a bad mechanic that currently is a pain to use. And for mastering it….and putting up with it you really get nothing special from it. There are plenty more more effective and easy to use classes in the game that do not rely on such gimmicky game play mechanics. The phantasms are simply like easy to dispel DoT’s on enemies for all intents and purposes.
No I have the same experience thus far. If I spec anything other than vitality and toughness especially. It turns into a zergfest…people all downed and dying and running back. It gets so bad people stop even trying to pick up the downed folks as the only way to complete is to do as much DPS as you can before being downed and killed and running back.
The fact you are actually able to spawn rush the boss mobs…shows that by design arena net expected this kind of a zergfest. A lot of game don’t even allow you to run back like that on boss mobs. In this game it is not only encouraged but expected.
I will try to be as concise as possible to accurately describe just how bad off GW2 is in terms of dungeon play. In short there is no dungeon play in this game. There are people claiming that the level 35 AC explorable mode is end game content. That it is meant to be this frustrating and morally unrewarding by design. For all intents and purposes if this is true GW2 does not have any kind of dungeon play for most people in the game.
This can be easily witnessed….AC now has like 1/4 to1/5 the people there LFG as a week ago. I am a die hard dungeon crawler coop lover…so I force myself to attempt it in some crazy attempt to salvage something from this game to make my 60$+10$ in the store last at LEAST one month. But if the ONLY thing arena net is capable of providing is a few solo leveling sandboxes I will have to pass on this game. Any gaming company can make open zones and sprinke them with mobs to kill to level up. That is the easy part, creating engaging, BALANCED, fun, coop areas like dungeons are where the draw is for many people playing MMOs. It is also more difficult to do.
But that does not mean you don’t even try to do this…..for me this game is a shell without any substance. The holy trinity has been removed….ok so thats like removing the center from a basketball game, or a catcher from baseball game. The holy trinity was a part of strategy and planning, and utilizing team work. Its what the internet allows us to do in games now..work together, SUPPORT and help each other to overcome obstacles. The decision has been made that this is now fun, and it must be radically changed. Ok, but what has it been replaced with?
The silver mobs in dungeons hit too hard, take too many hits to kill…and feel like boss mobs. They make your skills feel absolutely worthless. Having a 2 second stun on a 45 min timer is useless….it will do diddly squat against 3 or more mobs in dungeons. You might stun one and then get killed the next second by another mob. Our heals are simply laughable. I specced high into healing and I can recover mabe 1/5 my life what every 40 seconds?…the mobs hit for half my life or spam me with conditions that eat my life like crazy…or I am one shotted, or I am hit once knocked down and killed on the ground.
Spawn zerging is no fun, when players are doing this it means you have a game design problem. It demoralizes people, makes them feel that no matter how they spec their character no matter how skilled they are, no matter what their gear…that the game is meant to be a spawn fest. Additionally EVERY character MUST spec for toughness and survival…because there is no way to make a formation…there is no way to control the mobs, or have them attack tanks.
So everyone must be tanks…why even give us the option to spec DPS or even support for that matter. This game is balanced around PVP…all the skills are lackluster and do very very little…which is typical of what PVP balance usually becomes. Its obvious that PVP was the main focus of this game, they removed the holy trinity because balancing PVP and that are difficult to do…the dungeons were thrown together haphazardly and the brutality and disappointing game play was excused by simply calling it"hardcore"…as if that rings really cool and awesome right? We are hardcore hell yeah!
Except what does that mean? It means a totally unrewarding coop game play experience. Even for completing these dungeons I am getting nothing..not even good loot. I see blue and green items. Its all I see. I get 15k xp and what 15 silver? You can get much more doing anything else in this game. You give out xp like candy for your rift style zergfest events. Yet for some reason you don’t reward people putting themselves through that kind of awful gameplay experience? What were you thinking…if you had this mentality when making the game…that you dislike PVE dungeon play I wish you would have been upfront about it. I would have passed on your game.
Yeah I think the mesmer is not so great atm. IN PVE they can be pretty defensive. But the reliance on the clones and illusions is really krappy overall.The illusions disappear if the enemy dies, not only that shatter does really piddly damage. It meant to be a psuedo AOE skill but god, you can barely control when it happens and where it happens, so usually its just a very weak suicide attack on a single target.
The melee phantasms die so fast its hardly worth it to cast them. So yo kinda get locked into pistol because they might live a few rounds. Then there is the problem so many of our damage skills are tied to clones dying…..which is iffy, and if you have phantasms up you don’t have clones up. Our heals are tied to phantasms, its so weak and situational as to be near useless.
The regen from phantasms is barely accessible. I mean with the pistol phantasms I can somewhat use the regen…but like I said the melee ones suck because the die so fast. This class might be good in PVP but so far in PVE I am regretting roling one. They aren’t even a good support or CC class. And they do piddly damage.
I have to say that the dungeon content in this game is pretty horrible. It feels disorganized and just a zerg fest. Everyone trying to kite simultaneously while being spammed to death with conditions like poison and cripple. Its completely over the top and unfun if every possible way. I have a condition remover that I might as well as remove from my toolbar. Its on a 45 second cooldown and conditions are applied every 2.5 seconds.
Add to this how many HPs the mobs have, how totally underpowered the skills we have are and you have just a plain krappy gameplay experience. I play a mesmer and got the regeneration or phantasms……it barely does anything, and if I use anything other than the ranged pistol phantasms they die just within seconds of being deployed. Every fight in AC feels like a MMO fight gone haywire where the group was forced to cheese and kite and run around like little fairies to eek out a humiliating victory.
People getting downed over and over, people spawn rushing, people getting one shotted, chain knocked down and killed. There is no way to control the flow of the fight absolutely no tactics beyond focus fire on one mob. Other than that it is limp around because you are crippled and poisoned and try and kite and use your dodge to last long enough to use your piddly self heal.
GW2 has completely dropped the ball on the group play. If you want to drastically change how MMO group play is done than for the love of god make the content we are required to do make sense in light of all the limitations placed on us. The elite skills in this game are absolute garbage, the cool down on them is so long it makes them more of a novelty rather than anything useful in the grand scheme of things. Condition removals that remove conditions every 45 seconds? REALLY? If a mob sneezes he confuses you, poisons you, cripples you, blinds you…what have you EVERY mob applies conditions….and they SPAM them.
Quite frankly people might like GW2 for a lot of reasons but the dungeon play is definitely the weak part of this game I’d give it a D-. Its not so much hard as frustrating and requiring people to run around and kite frantically…no one stands toe to toe with anything. Oh and lets talk about the pittance we get as a reward? 15k xp? I can get more than that doing a trot around some newb starter zone.
The dungeon play in this game needs a serious rework…it might be doable but it is totally unsatisfying and humiliating to have to play this way. All your skills and tactics are useless…the only thing that matters if you are a good kiter. Kiting and being one shotted are always examples of poor design…when players are doing this you have poor design. Yet it seems Arena Net decided that they wanted their game to FEATURE this sort of gameplay.
Its bad…very bad. I will be quitting as soon as I can find an MMO or online game with a decent coop mode in it.