Guild Wars 2

I’ll assume the idea is based on some skins you would like to combine which are 2-hand at the moment.

As far as the idea, no.

The amount of effort design wise to make this work would big significant. The balance requirements would be astronomic. Never going to happen.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

musu.9205:

as someone who played eotn , from my experience . powerful consumable tasted fun at beginning but it will worsen everything .til game was ruined.

Poweful consumable… This is just one of them:
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Essence_of_Celerity
Gw1 consumables were roids cranked up to 11. Literally perma alacrity, quickness, swiftness, protection, regen and energy regen. That’s like perma Chrono buffs and more on an entire party with 3 clicks for 30 minutes. Are you seriously comparing this to a single utility of the Mesmer on a 30 minute CD?

If anything, you should appreciate this item as a gw1 player. We used to be able to multiclass. Just think about this item as a secondary Mesmer class. Mesmer still has “fast casting” and shorter CD on it.

I’ve mained mesmer since gw1 and I have no problem giving this item a 5 minute CD. The item can’t even be used in combat. It’ll only be used in open world and occasionally a casual dungeon or fotm setting when someone can’t jump. Why is that a bad thing?

I’ve said my peace in the WMPD topics but I’ll repeated it here:

- balance should be done on class skills, not via consumables, especially consumables that are only available to a small minority. If more portal accessibility is required, fix this via class skills

- the portal skill isself always was problematic. I’m actually quite supprised arenanet decided to make a permanent consumable for it. Even people advocating for a change of cooldown are arguing that: “portal is not useful and simply gets used to cheese the game”. No one sees a problem with increasing availability to a gamebreaking skill (as in actually breaking the game, not being overpowered)?

- any changes made necessary due to the consumable will likely affect the class skills, these kind of changes always do

- once arenanet starts rolling out class skills on consumables those will become “need to have” eventually. How about a deployable aegis generator which provides aegis every 30 seconds, we can call it guardian-in-a-box. Or the very required rage-on-a-stick which provides permanent fury and might for the next 30 seconds.

mesmer was the most gimmicky fun class at release (anyone remember mimic and agony damage pre change?). Over the years this changed from quickness bot, to portal bot over useless-not-get-taken-along-bot to alacrity bot currently. Damage wise mesmer was always bottom of the food chain for pve. All the unique fun skills were changed or “fixed” so handing out the last gimmicky fun skill to a consumable is a straight kick in the face.

Azoqu.8917:

OriOri.8724:

Nokaru.7831:

I hope the next round of Elite Specializations has something like Mesmer Portal. I look forward to your posts then.

Lets not do that. Its one thing to have a utility device copy a utility skill, especially one that is expensive and hard to get. Its another to give away one of the most iconic skills in the game to another class for literally no reason

Ya cause Mesmer hasn’t already stolen aegis from Guardian and Revenant hasn’t toppled Guardian as the boon class.

I read this argument in the other thrad as well and it bugged me there too, simply since it’s not true.

Aegis was NEVER guardian only. It was from the start a boon which was easiest to get via guardian but accessible by a multitude of classes. Mesmer always had the ability to gain/provide aegis via chaos storm. Other classes like thief and necromancer also had access to aegis.

The argument about revenant and guardian is even worse. Guardian was never a “boon” class. Same es elementalist and warrior are no boon classes. What about all the classes that gained quickness over the years (especially guardian “Feel my warth” which provided over 50% uptime post change and had to get nerfed). Boons were never a guardian only mechanic (not even aegis) so this argument is baseless.

Azoqu.8917:

You see, I totally disagree with you and also think the cooldown of the item should be reduced to something reasonable. And this is not because it costs the equivalent of 500g to get. It’s because in my opinion portal is used most of the time to cheese out stuff like jumping puzzles more than anything and I always thought portal should have been something accessible to all classes and not a way for one to make money in some instances. Lets face it, no other class can make money off a utility skill they get for free.

Yes, let’s increase the amount of people who can cheese stuff since that is fair. The times where anyone charged for portals has been over for 3 years now and even back then there was quite a few people who placed portals free of charge. But you are correct, maybe the portal skill as such needs to get revisited. The skill is a permanent design problem and might need removal.

No Walking.6349:

They won’t diversify WvW because they’re afraid of imbalance.

They just did a huge rollback to the old wvw maps since the new ones which took tons of time to create were not accepted by the community. I’m not going to aruge against wvw being neglected, but I’m not sure this is due to balance concerns.

No Walking.6349:

They nerfed EotM and OS because they were afraid of imbalance.

EotM was nothing more than a circle farm map 1 week after it got released. Any changes to the map were affects from changes to general wvw. Again, this has more to do with wvw neglect than balance.

No Walking.6349:

They nerfed dungeons because they were afraid of imbalance.

and those were buffed back up again. Not that I agree with the decision to increase gold gain and inflation but this has been remedied. Not going to get into the necessity for balance in an economic construct like the GW2 economy since that is to vast, but here fun definately does not beat out balance. If balance gets out of hand, short term fun will soon give way to longterm dissatisfaction.

No Walking.6349:

They won’t diversify SPvP with new maps and game types because they’re afraid of imbalance.

Sronghold was released 1 year ago shortly before the entire focus shifted on the HoT expansion. Going by the timeframe it took them to add that we can assume it takes a while to design, test and implement new maps. I agree this could be more of a priority for the spvp crowd, again not a balance issue.

No Walking.6349:

They’ve completely forgotten and removed underwater combat because they’re afraid of imbalance.

They removed underwater combat because it’s kitten in the eyes of most players. Has nothing to do with balance.

No Walking.6349:

They are terrified of making a move that will cause the slightest imbalance, and it’s frozen their development and creativity to the extreme. It’s caused stagnation, and all the fun and excitement has been removed simply because they’re terrified of imbalance.

Coming 6 months after the release of the first expansion which took a long time to fix. Plus a major patch and change to all zones in April which many consider a huge improvement fun wise, I respectfully disagree.

You can’t pick random things that bug you, slap balance and fun behind them and consider them arguments.

Fun is a subjective emotion. Balance is, while subjective since people have to evaluate and decide, more objective and comparable.

Asking for one over the other is futile since you will always get one crowd displeased, especially on both of those subjects which are always hottopics in MMOs.

Asking for seperation of game modes skill wise would make more sense (assuming you are refering to pve balance coming from pvp changes). That’s a different topic though.

Erzian.5218:

Erzian.5218:

Cyninja.2954:

u are allowed only one food buff at a time.

So no, it was not only a pure performance issue.

Yes, now read the two posts that you quoted again. It is still about performance and that they decided to not re-balance them. The “balance” changes that they made were literally do prevent/stop abuse but nobody in here is asking for a 0 cd portal or stronger version of portal, people asking for something that is still considerably worse than mesmer portal and has more cd. Once again your argument is inappropriate and completely useless.
People make arguments for a 5minute cd version and then you come and make arguments against a 0 cd cool down version. What is the point of that? It doesn’t make sense.

I never said it was not for performance issues, I merely corrected your point that that was the sole reason. Big difference. The way you phrased your point you clearly tried to conveig performance was the only reason when it was one of the reasons. Changing things to prevent abuse is a very different point than changing things due to performance.

As a matter of fact it’s one of the main points against a shorter cooldown in this case.

Also I’m not arguing against a 0 cd version but everything below 30 minute cooldown being to short.

Absurdo.8309:

Absurdo.8309:

What incredibly important niche do the high-cooldown people imagine this item replacing? I hear the fire and brimstone, but no concrete examples.

A five or ten minute cooldown seems reasonable to me.

This is an excellent question.

As a Mesmer main and the OP of this thread, I can’t think of a single example where my suggested changes would cause people to stop bringing Mesmer in any situation. Since the concern seems to focus around obsoleting Mesmer via mimicry of one of its “unique” skills (ignoring the fact that’s false because Watchwork Portal Devices and Experimental Teleportation Guns exist), it’d be really great to hear of cases where what the proponents of this are claiming is the case might actually be the case.

Multiple reasons were given besides taking away uniqueness of a skill from mesmer. The best counterarguments so far were:

- I disagree, it wouldn’t affect balance
- map design won’t be affected by portal
- portal isn’t that useful to begin with

or variations of these. All of those are subjective and obviously viewed differently by each individual.

harold.3526:

No one on PVE asks specifically for mesmer because of portal specifically anymore, things that people ask for mesmers only are helping on JP and other OPEN WORLD PVE things like this, so actually having a lower cooldown on portal would actually help the community because of more people being able to help others.]

So there is no reason for not reducing the watchwork CD, specially when 30 minutes make the item almost obsolete.

Yes, more skipping of content made easy. Great idea.

Chris McSwag.4683:

its still a toy at 5 min cd, just that you consistently fail to realise it.

It’s a very powerful toy at 5 minute cooldown.

Zui.9245:

Permanent to temporary item cost ratio:

White Mantle Portal Device -105

Permanent Bank Contract – 339

Permanent Black Lion Merchant Contract – 115

Endless Repair Contract – 105

Permanent Hair Stylist Contract – 52

Permanent Trading Post Express Contract – 98

-snip rest-

While the WMPD falls in the middle group price wise, it would be by far the most useful of all the permanent items.

Not factoring for the executioner’s axe. As was already mentioned, that item is considered combined with watchwork pick a straight up pay-to-win item.

Erzian.5218:

Have you ever made an informed argument? 30min cd on ogre pet whistle as well as fire elemental powder was solely for server performance reason NOT balance.

The decision to throw cooldowns on them were for server performance/stability as the patch notes said, not for balance. Period. This was something that was long overdue.

Think of it this way: Between the embers and whistle, those items were effectively doubling/tripling the amount of players active in a map.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/arenanet-tracker/topic/290447-consumables-nerf/
2nd post.

Rednik.3809:

In line, you said?

Yes, read my post or Zuis post. It is simple math. Try not insisting on something that has been disproved by mathematics already. How can you be so stubborn and immune to evidence.

If you bring in official quote, please don’t cherry pick the statements you like. The very next 2 posts in that thread go into a lot more detail for nerfing the items and it’s not just that one line. It’s dishonest to take part quotes and omit the rest especially if it changes the context and/or meaning.

- the change was made mostly to address the Fire Elemental Powder and the Ogre Pet Whistle since they cause the most problems. Other items were modified because they had the potential to become problems.
– these items are not the same as pets that the player professions can summon, for these reasons:
– the items had no cooldown, meaning that the summoned creatures are effectively invincible and can always be alive assuming the player has more items
– there’s no limit on how many different items you can use at the same time. Meaning you can have both the elemental and the ogre pet simultaneously
– unfortunately, the creatures were not specifically designed to the constraints we have on pets in general. They are way more costly than your average ranger pet. In fact, they are exactly the same as the versions you fight in the open world which is what makes them so powerful.
– regardless of balance, the change was definitely made to address the various performance concerns that arise from allowing unlimited uses of the item by everyone in a map. Both the client and server are affected by having the extra creatures around.
– the need for the change was identified months ago. Many members of the team were adamantly against making the change because they knew it would destroy a popular strategy.

Given all of that information, and the introduction of two brand-new world events, something had to be done. Ultimately we decided with the cooldown approach because:

- we did not want to debuff/rebalance the potency of the creature resulting from a single use
– we did not want to completely eliminate the use of the item in large events
– it was not possible to clearly and cleanly message why the item would not be usable in large events or when there are too many nearby

The end result was a hefty cooldown, which honestly could have ended up being a lot longer.

On cooldown length:

The 30 minute length is based on the effective duration of the items (5 minutes). Compared with the Glyph of Lesser Elementals (Elemenatlist utility skill, 1 minute duration), 5 minutes is quite long.
It’s possible that we could go to something more like 1 minute duration, 5 minute cooldown, but that’s getting back into re-balancing the item. With a re-balance we stand to raise equal or more controversy. Currently you can at least continue using the item to whatever end it was used before, albeit in a more limited fashion. Had we changed it completely, you may have been able to use the item more frequently but no longer in the same capacity as before.

On dungeons/instance:

Yes there is a cumulative cost of having tons of these in instances. Without getting into too many technical details, 150 people in 30 dungeons using this item is just as bad as 150 people in 1 public map. Even if you have not experienced skill lag personally, there are constraints and instances do hit them.
It is therefore completely unfair to assign blame to players who enjoy the large open world events. The events represent drastic instances of the problem, but the change was made to address the entirety of the issues that are being caused across the game.

On consumable design, in general:

It’s not really my place to comment too widely on this aspect of the game. I do know for certain it would not be consistent with some of GW2’s fundamental design pillars to create an environment where everyone is expected to have on-hand some elaborate set of consumables needing to be laboriously maintained and activated. This is why, for example, you are allowed only one food buff at a time.

So no, it was not only a pure performance issue.

Dashingsteel.3410:

Considering that progression didn’t work off “rewards” at launch I do not think I am being selective. That is how at launch gw2 worked (no forced content for pve character progression, specific content for luxury items) Again, Obtena, I am saying that the at launch setup was better than what they have now. If anyone was selective, it was Anet who started gw2 at launch in this manner.

Keep trying to build your strawman.

Yes and during beta the system was even more different. Launch is over 4 years ago, what is your point?

Arenanet was obviously displeased with how the skillpoint system worked during vanilla and have been working on “fixing” the issue in multiple patches since. It’s something they tried to take over from GW1 but noticed did not work well in GW2.

I will agree to the fact that now there are minor hurdles and requirements in place, but they are so low and have been adjusted multiple times, I just don’t see them as problems.

The current system allows for easier balance and expansion via limitations. The maximum amount of 364 hero points left over is almost an entire new character. You basically only need to finish 1/2 the required content to max out a character and are given multiple ways of doing so.

Honestly I’d probably go with trying somehthing new which you haven’t done before.

Do a no combat run and simply see how much experience you can get via running around and unlocking all the map, vistas, poi, etc.

Do a gathering run or so where you just gather everything you find.

Otherwise the fastest ways to hit 80 I’d say are as follows (descending order of speed):
- level 80 boost
- tomes of knowledge
- crafting
- heartquests and leveling

Not sure what the level gain via pvp and wvw is now. Both do not reward experience but rather tomes of knowledge instead so results may vary.

perry.9645:

Rednik.3809:

perry.9645:

im pretty sure most of the people complaining just complain because they cant get the infinite portal and are salty about it but thats just a guess

im pretty sure most of the people complaining about too high cooldown just complain because they can get the infinite portal and now want to feel themselves special, and are salty about it but thats just a guess

asking for a reasonable cooldown to make the item useable (even for mesmers cause they would save an utility slot) doesn’t seem “want to feel special”. How about we add 30min cooldowns to all other permanent items to streamline the experience?

I know you were being sarcastic, but would cutting the cost of all permanent items to 1/10th and increasing the cooldown to 30 minutes not be a buff?

I mean I’d imediately buy all the permanent merchant, hair contract, etc. items at 1/10th their price. Waiting 30 minute to reuse would be not an issue.

The shorter cooldown items you linked would become so cheap (10gold for mobile mystic forge versus 100g) that the increased amount of people who could use them would be more than worth the wait. The royal terrase pass (which I own myself) would require a waypoint to allow access during cooldown (not free of charge), but besides that it would be fine.

Even the executioners axe which many consider one of the first pay-to-win items thanks to it’s movementspeed advantage could simply be made cheaper if need be.

Honestly, I actually see more benefit to the playerbase than disadvantages.

CrusaderMichael.9245:

People who put the time into crafting/buying a legendary, earned it. If all you want to do is use common ascended drop, or crafted ascended, fine. You deserve nothing more in terms of power.

Correct, well unless they bought them off the TP with gold gained through $$$ where they did gain the legendary but outside of the game.

Not one person in this thread has said otherwise so far. Good of you to point this out again for clarification.

CrusaderMichael.9245:

But I guarantee the daunting task of scrounging gold and material for a simple skin, being what a legendary truly is, will have seemed so pointless to so many people, many of them will have left the game already in search for a grind result with actual kick beyond what you can get from easy to come by ascended gear. Albeit prettier.

I for one will not leave, but I will never, ever, ever… be lured into saving up for a legendary, aka skin, again.

Legendaries are longterm projects for most people who undertake them. While working towards them you get to read up quite often on their properties. People who decide to build one (or multiple) know what they get.

Not sure how you got lured in, unless you literally spent $$$ on gems->gold and never bother to read up on what you are actually building/buying.

That or you figured you’d finish the legendary, then ask for it to get buffed stat wise.

CrusaderMichael.9245:

This whole topic just fully dawned on me a few days ago when I found myself laughing at the prices of some skins and what people pay for them, only to realize i paid even more for my skin… Kudzu.

No more.

We should have power in accordance to what we put the effort into getting. Not nerfed power to appease the people not willing to flip the bill.

AKA, ascended weapon users.

No flame topic here. Just stated my thoughts and moving on from this post.

As is your right. Seems a majority here disagrees, myself included (crafted 4 legendarys so far, 2x Twilight, 1x Sunrise and 1x Ad Infinitum).

TexZero.7910:

But just to prove your point, what if the roles were reversed here, i can almost guarentee you’d be begging anet to bring portals cooldown down to earth to be reasonable as opposed to 30 minutes because it’s honestly not worth it for any skill to have a 30 minute cooldown. As is people are being quite rational in asking for a lower cooldown that still respects portal 5/10 minutes isn’t that big a deal and does not pose any harm to everyday gameplay nor does it invalidate a class.

But that’s just it, the protal device is NOT a skill. It’s a toy.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I myself usually am not someone who immediately asks for QoL changes based on my subjective desires(weighted since obviously all our desires are subjective). I try to weigh the pros and cons. The last time I was vocal about a change was during the HoT release fiasco for veteran players and was content when arenanet decided to add a character slot.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Given that every dungeon/FotM run takes a few minutes at most AND usually takes advantage of double portal via mimic, I can hardly see this item “replacing” mesmers in any way. Not to mention mesmers have alacrtiy – which still is AFAIK entirely exclusive to them, ability to maintain perma quickness for 6-7 people and perma (or almost perma) block/evade for itself. That class still has perfectly enough unique flavor, possibly even too much.

Also, since the suggested QoL change would hardly do any gamebreaking or give any sort of advantage (portals are mostly used to help out newbies unable to get to a place), this would only promote friendly play and I think is very reasonable thing to ask for. +1000 to OP, agreed on every point. Not to mention that very high price needs to be justified somehow.

Well that is the main difference in opinion I guess. Some people think the portal device would not have a gamebreaking function, others think it would due to the widespread portal ability.

Arenanet had hinted in the past that they were considering to give a skill similar to portal to less desired classes (back then it was rumored necromancer would get something similar) to improve their group utility. I doubt they had something like a short cooldown portal device in mind toy for everyone (well raiders only). Then again, who knows.

Personally I highly doubt they are going to change the cooldown on the item so this entire disscussion is moot. But people are well in their right to voice their opinion, same as for others to disagree.

Cougre.6543:

If mesmer portals were actually as potent and game changing as a lot of people are trying to give off the impression here, then I doubt anyone would have quarrels with the cooldown and/or cost for the item as they currently are. This is blown out of proportion, as though mesmers are standing in line to help people cross the leyline gliding gap in Auric Basin or something.
I have yet to see someone give examples in the form of situations (that can also apply to this portal device) where a mesmer’s portal is the absolute winning move to the point that it justifies the current limitations of the bundle.

So if the skill is so underwhelming, why desire it so?

What people do and what people can do with mesmer portals are two very different things though wouldn’t you agree?

To deny this automatically removes you from any serious disscussion and shows your strong bias.

Erzian.5218:

450g/1000 magnetite shards is far away from cheap. Try being less selfish for a moment and try imagining it as an (usable) item that is actually worth using as – you know – that it what usable items are for. Or just read OPs post as it explains what is wrong with it, how it worse than an item that is already so bad that barely anyone uses it.

Nope, it’s not cheap. Then again its barely 45 times as much as the consumable (at 10g per use). How far appart are other consumables versus their permanent counterparts in this game?

That’s maybe 1 week of using the portal skill. I doubt that is a reasonable price to compare a permanent item to their consumable counterpart.

Let’s make it 4,500g (which corresponds to 450 uses ergo 70 days or a 1/5th of a year.) and it might be worth changing. Ironically this would put it in the ballpark of where other pemanent consumable items are which are far less useful.

This has nothing to do with being selfish but is a pure matter of balance. Balance between classes, balance between consumables and permanent items and balance between movement skills and world design. The item is worth using already, otherwise the 30 minute cooldown wouldn’t hurt as much. The question you are asking is: is it worth owning.

Erzian.5218:

Yes I know that reddit post. Now hop into the game and check out what raid groups look like. You will be impressed by the absurd amount of thieves and engis. If you wonder why, just check the forums, I am confident there are enough threads that discuss classes and their roles in raids.
The last time I had a thief in raids, was my own because I was bored and wanted to try something else. Tell you what, it sucked compared to every other class I have played in raids so far.

Because chrono has multiple spots right? Oh wait, no they have 1 spot in raids and that’s it.

Come on, your just making yourself look more and more silly. Also I’m not seeing how this has to do with class uniqueness and portals, then again, I’m not the one derailing this thread.

Erzian.5218:

Cyninja.2954:

I think you’re right. I was supprised Thiefs and Engineers are useless now. Last I checked Thief got a major damage buff a while back and is in one of the top dps spots in raids with autoattacks and engineer was always useful, just very difficult to play.

I think this is the part where rational people back away very very slowly.

Perhaps if you start playing the game instead of making up non-sense based on patch notes you might realize what is actually going on. I just leave this screenshot (taken a couple of minutes ago). You might be surprised but it hardly looks any different in terms of engis and thieves during prime time. Engi was desired before the slick shoes nerf because of its insane cc but that is gone. Thief is simply an ele with less utility and less dps most of the time. If you think that doesn’t prove anything, feel free and check out more recent quick and successful runs on raid bosses. Or even things like 6 men boss x. Everyone runs a mesmer (without portal btw), warriors, eles and druids. nearly nobody runs thief or engi. Although it’s not what this topic is about, I hope it shows you why I and others disagree with the points that you are making, It appears, that you are very poorly informed.

musu.9205:

was used

You got the tense right, congratulations.

Yes, please tell me more about how thief and Engi are uselss while being 2nd in damage only to Ele which rules all. https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ft01q/qt_dps_benchmarkstests_for_all_classes/

Nice screenshot, you do know that it can be interpreted multiple ways right?

musu.9205:

Cyninja.2954:

Erzian.5218:

Cyninja.2954:

bla bla

Because it is so hard and difficult to make a mesmer, level it to 80 and unlock portal. I guess only talented and superior human beings that main mesmer can do it :^)
I mean you have to create a character, click 79 of your 2k+ tomes of knowledge and then unlock the skill. Tough task.
Sometimes i really wonder if the outrageous entitlement and jealousy that others might have access to portal without paying 9g/use comes automatically with playing a mesmer.
Its especially astonishing since most portals are probably used in open world to help other players. (!)
Would be funny if every warrior and thief player behaved like mesmer players, the complaints about the executioner axe toy would be endless as it challenges your superior mobility.

Way to miss the point, good try though to change the subject.

This is not about playing mesmer or other classes, but thank you for making just my point. We are in agreement then that giving this skill would make people play less mesmers since one of their unique skills was removed. I also said I would rather they give the skill out as baseline to otherclasses and balance around that than have an unbalanced toy (which in itsself brings a lot of other problems it being raid exclusive etc, but lets ignore that for now).

The person who is acting entitled here is you, not people who are concerned about the general balance of the game or uniquness of classes.

As I mentioned futher up, if you need more portals than the device allows, roll a mesmer (same suggestion you made). If the mesmer does not suit your needs but you still want the portal, well I guess we now see where the problem lies.

i think at this point , arguing with him is pretty much pointless . i suggest we all admit he won this thread . and he could do what i list above to take over rest of tyria .let us look forward .

I think you’re right. I was supprised Thiefs and Engineers are useless now. Last I checked Thief got a major damage buff a while back and is in one of the top dps spots in raids with autoattacks and engineer was always useful, just very difficult to play.

I think this is the part where rational people back away very very slowly.

Erzian.5218:

Cyninja.2954:

bla bla

Because it is so hard and difficult to make a mesmer, level it to 80 and unlock portal. I guess only talented and superior human beings that main mesmer can do it :^)
I mean you have to create a character, click 79 of your 2k+ tomes of knowledge and then unlock the skill. Tough task.
Sometimes i really wonder if the outrageous entitlement and jealousy that others might have access to portal without paying 9g/use comes automatically with playing a mesmer.
Its especially astonishing since most portals are probably used in open world to help other players. (!)
Would be funny if every warrior and thief player behaved like mesmer players, the complaints about the executioner axe toy would be endless as it challenges your superior mobility.

Way to miss the point, good try though to change the subject.

This is not about playing mesmer or other classes, but thank you for making just my point. We are in agreement then that giving this skill would make people play less mesmers since one of their unique skills was removed. I also said I would rather they give the skill out as baseline to otherclasses and balance around that than have an unbalanced toy (which in itsself brings a lot of other problems it being raid exclusive etc, but lets ignore that for now).

The person who is acting entitled here is you, not people who are concerned about the general balance of the game or uniquness of classes.

As I mentioned futher up, if you need more portals than the device allows, roll a mesmer (same suggestion you made). If the mesmer does not suit your needs but you still want the portal, well I guess we now see where the problem lies.

Ironically, I think your measurment of success TC is the worst possible approach as far as enjoyment goes (subjective opinion ofcorse).

There will always be someone who is better, richer, more attractive, smarter, etc.

In case of MMOs, unless you are part of the entitled 14-18 year old crowd (as in you get to game as much as you want and still get stuff done while mom and/or dad provide for you. not blaming, I was there years back) you are already at a disadvantage. Commitments just get bigger the older you get.

The question is never can you beat them all (though competition can be beneficial). It’s how you deal with your competition, always has been. If someone has a legendary, be happy for him/her and strive to achieve the same instead of automatically assuming they cheated.

It’s better to feel happy for someone else then corrupt yourself with envy or other negtive emotions. In the end, the other person won’t ever know, but you are the one sitting there feeling like kitten.

Going to go with: no!

Korean item grinders are → way. Those seem to be more what you are looking for TC.

TexZero.7910:

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

And yet again i had no clue mesmer’s only skill was portal.

The hyperbole can stop anytime now.

And you have no idea what you are asking for, when you want to permanently get one of most unique class skills in the game for a gold equivalent of few hours of AB farm.

Again, 99% of that already exist in game. There are literally consumables that give you skills of other classes, if not superior versions.

Also, why are we even bringing up the use of an exploit to gain gold and relating it to class skills.

I gave you a simple comparison, where in a “toy” as you put it outshines the actual skill. So how is this in your mind acceptable but keeping both skills unique and having meaningful cooldowns not ?

Again:

TexZero.7910:

There are literally consumables that give you skills of other classes, if not superior versions.

And again since if it wasn’t obvious enough:

TexZero.7910:

consumables

That is the big difference. on top of that in this case it’s consumables that cost 5-10 gold. Big difference. If someone wants to shell out 10 gold to mimic another classes skill, fine. Making it baseline available to everyone for permanent use, not.

There is very few skills that would have that big an effect on the game if widely spread like portal. All future content would have to be designed with the possibility of multiple portals in a group. Old content would become vastly obsolete. Mesmer can already bypass great amounts of HoT mastery requirements and transport players to places they are supposed to reach later not to mention jumping puzzles.

Stop looking at this from a “I want want want, gimme gimme gimme!” perspective but actualy from a design and health of game perspective if you don’t care about class design and uniquness.

Personally the way this disscussion is headed I would love for arenanet to close this opened bottle. Remove the device, refund players their expense, add similar mechanics to a few classes if they absolutely want more classes to have portal availability. That way this could at least be balanced somewhat.

I find this hilarious. I bet arnenet are regretting putting this toy on the raid merchant already.

This goes very well with a german saying which translated means:

“Give a man a finger, and he’ll take your entire hand.”

The WMPD is a toy, period. Not matter its price. No one is forcing you to buy one and if you do without reading up on what you purchase especially when it’s this expensive, guess whos fault that is?

All the arguments that it’s not a mesmer defining skill yada yada yada. I bet quite a few people would see this quite differently if their class was affected by such a change. How about we introduce 3 minute reusable banners then? Or summonable weapon skills which rival that of elementalists?

All the consumables mentioned are just that: consumables. The price difference between consumables and permanent items always has been huge in this game, especially for something which would get used as often as a portal.

I’ll repeat what I said in the same thread from yesterday. If you need portals on lower cooldowns, bring your mesmer. If you can’t do the things you want with the mesmer you have your answer as to why the cooldown is a good thing.

A maxed out character with everything done will have about 364 hero points left over. That’s 36 Hot Hero challenges not done. Given there is a total of 40 hero challenges (of which around 20 are soloable easily), I don’t see the problem.

The Hero points system and elite specialisations were specifically added as progression and already altered twice to accommodate players with less desire to grind. As is, I was able to take a fresh 80 (high there tomes of knowledge) and get her maxed on elite specialisation within 2 hours of simply getting the simplest HoT challenges spliced in with some Tyria mastery points while helping a friend.

As far as WvW, simply play wvw and unlock via Proof of Heroics (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Proof_of_Heroics). Absolutely no reason to set s single foot in PvE if not desired.

Think of it this way:

How would you feel if one of your class defining abilities gets handed out to every one else?

Now consder this:

How would you feel if your class is by far the lowest dps class and it’s only redeeming quality is utility which now gets reduced by even more since one of its defining skills gets handed out to everyone?

It’s true that under normal circumstances Mesmer portal is not used or needed except for speedruns, helping friends, abusing AI, etc. How does that devalue the skill as class defining ability? As is, Mesmer in pve have it hard enough in that they serve as quickness/alacrity bots. No reason to take even more fluff away.

The portal device is a nice item. It allows for a very powerful ability to be used by every class. There is no reason to lower its cooldown. If you need portals on more frequent cooldowns, roll a Mesmer and do whatever you planed on doing with that class. If you can’t do what ever you planed doing due to Mesmer limitations, well then you have an answer as to why the cooldown should not get reduced.

webtoehobbit.4201:

With this severe content drought and nothing but very specific content aimed at the more hardcore crowd, I can’t help but to feel a bit forgotten. Sure we have current events, but those are nothing compared to the love that the other parts of the game have seen.

Do you think that the casual base is a minority? I have always felt that the casual gamer base was quite populous in GW2, but maybe I was wrong, maybe its full of hardcore players.

I’m just feeling left out lately, waiting for Living World Season 3 is going to be tough. :-(

I’m not sure I agree.

Just about every change to the game ever since the launch of HoT has been to either fix bugs, finish promised content or fix difficult content so a bigger part of the player base can enjoy it (which very likely took some developer ressources delaying other content).

The addition of the raids was planed and already designed around since pre HoT release. To just stop work on them would have been a similar fiasco as deciding to stop the rest of the legendarys.

All the new mini events are absolutely casual friendly. Unfortunately content the size of say the living world episodes takes more time than adding some not voice acted, not instanced, non cinematic stuff. That or the quality would suffer.

MaJoBooOM.4851:

Ok, Now I get , you people just love junk items in your inventory. To delete them every 5 mins , best idea ever!
Brought to you by #BagInsideOfBagInsideOfBag

Yes I do if it means other players might be negatively affected and the solution to my problem is as minor as occasionally deleting 1-2 stacks of items.

MaJoBooOM.4851:

Where is the fun in the game if everything is given to you? Do you really like using cheats in games and finish the game in 10 seconds?

I loved all the hot maps , now I hate them because of those junk items , and Yes for someone it isnt junk cause they need it for legendary , LIKe said I did nevermore and I loved the journey, but there is no fun when I do a legendary and all I need for it is GOLD , the sparks where fun to collect , I was happy when I got them , of course time to time it was frustrating but the happier I was when I got them all, I felt like I achieved something. Now I feel like playing a game for little children where I have to push “1” to win.

The patch was awesome but whats too much is too much!! Stop creating new Items and making the useless! Its an inflation that you cant see , If the would be tradable they would cost 3-6 cooper.

So essentially it’s not about the junk items but rather you despise that people now have an easier time than when you did the content. Okay, yes I agree. We should have all legenadries removed from game which were crafted beyond 3 months after launch. The only people who deserve their legendary are the ones who crafted them 30-90 days after GW2 release.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I’d rather have too many keys than too few.

Too many can be deleted. Too few and you have to skip opening up chests. I prefer to delete.

This.

MaJoBooOM.4851:

But! Now If I am doing a HoT meta I get so many sparks and oil that I have to throw them all away.

So throw them away. Better yet, delete occasionally 1-2 stacks from your bank, problem solved. Not sure why this has to affect other players.

MaJoBooOM.4851:

The other problem I have is that I get so many Verdant Brick Chest keys from even 1 easy event that from doing the whole meta I have a stack of keys in my inventory, I cant do anything with them. For example after night meta we can glide and open chests, once I opened max 50 chest but still had 70 keys in invetory and got 10+from meta end.

So delete spare keys. Again, why make this subjective problem one for all? I ran out of 110 VB keys in less than 3 days since I didn’t focus on doing events but just went in towards the end of a cycle and opened chests. Similar to chest farming in SW.

Rednik.3809:

Cyninja.2954:

Yes there is. It’s basic economic theory. Please direct me to your sources and I’ll gladly change my opinion on how rarity affects value. I’ve shown what I’m basing my argumentation on. Until then, I’ll stick to what I know. You not valuing something because its rare does not mean others share the same values. We even have in this thread people who openly admit they are interested in the item due to its rarity.

Now you can keep bringing up your own values and treat them as proof or fact of argument, but that won’t change common or mostly accepted behavior and established basics of how a big portion of population behave and will behave.

It have NOTHING to do with economic theory because tonic is not involved in any economic relations at all. It’s same thing as measuring artistic value of poem by counting words and symbols and trying to apply some mathematical theory to those numbers. Yes, you will get some abstract result, but it will be absolutely meaningless one.

There is no need for economic transactions to take place when looking for psychological effects of scarcity.

Scarcity Effects on Value: A Quantitative Review of the Commodity Theory Literature
- http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1181&context=articles

Only because it’s not part of a transaction or economic exchange does not mean it has no effect on values.

OriOri.8724:

Its interesting that you think your argument has a solid base and mine doesn’t. You valuing something because it is rare does not mean others share that same value. For every person in this thread that has expressed interest in it because of its rarity there has also been another person who has expressed interest in making this item more valuable. Now you can keep bringing up your own values and treat them as proof or fact of argument, but that won’t change the fact that these items have no inherent value.

I absolutely do not care about what people in this thread believe. They are not a representation of general human behavior and a far to small sample size. I do base my argumentation on established economic ideas and principles. I’ve even given examples of how arenanet has handled similar situations in this game and kept rarity value equal or even higher than before a change, namely precursor crafting.

OriOri.8724:

Despite what you would choose to try to make us believe, GW2 is not real life. There is quite literally absolutely 0 economic gain from owning a fractal tonic. Just none. So economic theory doesn’t even apply here. It would apply if having a tonic in some way, no matter how miniscule, affected your character in an economic way, but they don’t. You placing value in its rarity doesn’t mean that the item has any value on your account. You still cannot trade it. You still gain no benefit from it. It provides absolutely 0 economic gain to anyone who has it. Economic theory quite simply does not apply here no matter how much you wish it did because the tonic grants you no economic benefit or detriment. It doesn’t, and no matter how much you want to say otherwise you cannot pick out an economic benefit that the tonic brings to the account of anyone who has it.

Yes, and by your logic there is absolutely no economic gain of having legendarys (back before they got changed) or other rare skins yet they are a major part of GW2 endgame design. Economic theory always applies. You agreeing or disagreeing with it does not change this. It’s like saying I do not believe in math, thus the rules do not apply. The only question is how things are valued. In this case I value rarity over perceived satisfaction and am arguing that reducing the rarity of the item will negatively impact desire or satisfaction of the playerbase (both of owners and not owners). You are simply stating your opinion as fact over and over.

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

mtpelion.4562:

Ayrilana.1396:

mtpelion.4562:

The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.

Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.

The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.

The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.

The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.

The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.

Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .

Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.

My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.

A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.

And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.

True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.

On the contrary, the AB farm produces:

- ressources
- gold drain via trading fees

To argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.

It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.

I doubt that but you are entitled to your opinion.

Think of it this way: if half the active player base have 30 accounts, they can make 2K gold every 28 days from the login rewards. No gold is actually created in the system, only shifted between players. What impact do you think those players would have on the price level for various items?

I might as well point out that the reality of half the player base having 30 accounts is not the point.

We weren’t talking about login rewards, but daily gold reward which is straight up 2g.

How big a percentage of the playerbase is actively does AB farming?
How many players do dailies?
Which are the direct effects on the gold supply of both activities before checking for possible secondary effects?
What is the effect of both activities on supply of ressources?

Yes, the AB farm is a great ressource generator and thus allows a minor fraction of the playersbase to acumulate big amounts of gold. Still in the big picture, it’s insignificant from a negative inflation perspective, especially compared to direct gold rewards added with dailies, increased gold via fractals, increased gold from dungeons (again).

Login rewards was also not the point… It was simply being used as an example of players generating incoming which does not involve changing the money supply.

Look at how much you make from the dailies. Do you honestly believe that a player will make enough from the dailies to cover the cost, or a significant portion of the cost, for exchanging gold to gems to purchase a given item? You make 60G a month from dailies which is a drop in the bucket compared to various farms such as AB.

Login rewards do change the money supply since anything you get via login rewards needs to go through the TP to generate gold.

In order to look for sources of inlfation I’d rather look at the big picture isntead of focusing on a minority of players who are better off thanks to a farm. The GW2 market is to big for such a small amount of players having an impact. Now having hundreds of thousands of players competing for something on th market with 2g more in their pocket…

The TP does not generate gold. Generating gold is gold that is newly added to the game.

Also, the 60G you get a month only translates to about 184 gems at the current rate. How many items cost that low? Players are using cobsiderably much more gold obtains from other sources which are primarily farms that don’t generate gold.

I’m fully aware the TP does not generate gold. It does take tax though and thus removes gold from the economy when you sell those items you gained through the login rewards. Hence login rewards if used for gold gain have an effect on the gold supply. Poor wording on my part, but should have been obvious from the context provided.

I also never said the daily gold increase was the only reason for inflation. I did mention some of the other simultanious gold increases which arenaet reimplemented.

None of those things provide a basis for the assumption though that AB farm creates an increase in inflation.

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

mtpelion.4562:

Ayrilana.1396:

mtpelion.4562:

The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.

Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.

The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.

The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.

The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.

The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.

Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .

Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.

My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.

A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.

And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.

True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.

On the contrary, the AB farm produces:

- ressources
- gold drain via trading fees

To argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.

It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.

I doubt that but you are entitled to your opinion.

Think of it this way: if half the active player base have 30 accounts, they can make 2K gold every 28 days from the login rewards. No gold is actually created in the system, only shifted between players. What impact do you think those players would have on the price level for various items?

I might as well point out that the reality of half the player base having 30 accounts is not the point.

We weren’t talking about login rewards, but daily gold reward which is straight up 2g.

How big a percentage of the playerbase is actively does AB farming?
How many players do dailies?
Which are the direct effects on the gold supply of both activities before checking for possible secondary effects?
What is the effect of both activities on supply of ressources?

Yes, the AB farm is a great ressource generator and thus allows a minor fraction of the playersbase to acumulate big amounts of gold. Still in the big picture, it’s insignificant from a negative inflation perspective, especially compared to direct gold rewards added with dailies, increased gold via fractals, increased gold from dungeons (again).

Login rewards was also not the point… It was simply being used as an example of players generating incoming which does not involve changing the money supply.

Look at how much you make from the dailies. Do you honestly believe that a player will make enough from the dailies to cover the cost, or a significant portion of the cost, for exchanging gold to gems to purchase a given item? You make 60G a month from dailies which is a drop in the bucket compared to various farms such as AB.

Login rewards do change the money supply since anything you get via login rewards needs to go through the TP to generate gold.

In order to look for sources of inlfation I’d rather look at the big picture isntead of focusing on a minority of players who are better off thanks to a farm. The GW2 market is to big for such a small amount of players having an impact. Now having hundreds of thousands of players competing for something on th market with 2g more in their pocket…

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

mtpelion.4562:

Ayrilana.1396:

mtpelion.4562:

The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.

Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.

The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.

The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.

The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.

The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.

Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .

Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.

My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.

A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.

And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.

True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.

On the contrary, the AB farm produces:

- ressources
- gold drain via trading fees

To argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.

It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.

I doubt that but you are entitled to your opinion.

Think of it this way: if half the active player base have 30 accounts, they can make 2K gold every 28 days from the login rewards. No gold is actually created in the system, only shifted between players. What impact do you think those players would have on the price level for various items?

I might as well point out that the reality of half the player base having 30 accounts is not the point.

We weren’t talking about login rewards, but daily gold reward which is straight up 2g.

How big a percentage of the playerbase is actively does AB farming?
How many players do dailies?
Which are the direct effects on the gold supply of both activities before checking for possible secondary effects?
What is the effect of both activities on supply of ressources?

Yes, the AB farm is a great ressource generator and thus allows a minor fraction of the playersbase to acumulate big amounts of gold. Still in the big picture, it’s insignificant from a increasing inflation perspective, especially compared to direct gold rewards added with dailies, increased gold via fractals, increased gold from dungeons (again).

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

mtpelion.4562:

Ayrilana.1396:

mtpelion.4562:

The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.

Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.

The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.

The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.

The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.

The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.

Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .

Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.

My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.

A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.

And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.

True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.

On the contrary, the AB farm produces:

- ressources
- gold drain via trading fees

To argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.

It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.

I doubt that but you are entitled to your opinion.

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

mtpelion.4562:

Ayrilana.1396:

mtpelion.4562:

The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.

Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.

The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.

The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.

The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.

The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.

Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .

Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.

My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.

A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.

And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.

True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.

On the contrary, the AB farm produces:

- ressources
- gold drain via trading fees

To argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

mtpelion.4562:

Ayrilana.1396:

mtpelion.4562:

The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.

Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.

The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.

The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.

The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.

The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.

Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .

Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.

My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.

A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.

So yes, some individuals now have more gold (aproximately 85% of the items value they traded + copper/silver/gold gained from the events and vendoring valuesless items) and a just as big faction of buyers is ownes items they bought minus 100% of the gold they spent.

Still leaves the game economy at:

15% trade tax – gold influx = increase or decrease in overall gold (99% likely decrease if one compares some numbers)

Ayrilana.1396:

mtpelion.4562:

Ayrilana.1396:

mtpelion.4562:

The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.

Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.

The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.

The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.

The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.

The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.

Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .

Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.

OriOri.8724:

Cyninja.2954:

OriOri.8724:

Cyninja.2954:

OriOri.8724:

Increasing the drop rate hurts no one. It just doesn’t, and no matter how much you go on, that won’t change the truth of the matter.

While not true (see scarcity creates value just above this reply), the same can be said about not increasing the drop chance. The item has no benefit or grants no benefit so not having it does not put someone at a disadvantage except for bruising their ego.

I completely agree. Increasing the drop rate hurts no one, and leaving it the same as it is now also hurts no one. But because increasing it hurts no one, @malediktus argument for leaving the drop rate alone is moot. And that is all I want him to understand. If ANet wants to leave the drop rate as it is then no one is worse off. But likewise if they wanted to just mail a tonic to every player in the game, still no one would be worse off. But that is exactly what @Malediktus is arguing, and it doesn’t make any sense at all.

I think you missunderstood my point.

I’m saying that the idea that no one is worse off when increasing the drop rate is incorrect. The mere fact that the item itsself loses value through reduction in rarity is already a loss, even if not measurable in some monetised quantity. While at the same time reducing the value of the item to its current owners.

On the otherhand, not increasing the quantity does not make anyone worse off since no one is negatively affected (since no one owned the item or could expect to own the item due to its pure rng drop nature). It’s the same as with lottery winners. No one who is not winning is worse off if nothing changes, but splitting the winnings between all players leaves the original winners with less winnings.

I disagree. People who want the tonic for fun are worse off if the drop rates stay the same. Whereas people who already have the tonic are not affected. Its not like they worked hard for it. It won’t be taken away from them. Any perceived slight is simply that, perceived by them alone. No one will have “less winnings” if the drop rate is increased. If you already have a tonic then it won’t get worse, it won’t suddenly lose a few of the possible transformations, it won’t suddenly have a limit on how often you can use it before it doesn’t work anymore. The tonic will stay the same. No one will be worse off for it. The only thing that will happen is some people will be extremely buttsore because they can’t stand the thought of other players being able to receive the tonic.

And @Maledikus yes actually that is exactly what you said

You are arguing from a perspective of complete neglect towards value created through rarity. I get it. It suits your argument so let’s ommit and ignore everything that contradicts it.

Taking something away from someone is different than giving something to someone who didn’t have it before.

There is no economic viability in reducing rarity. Period. You ignoring this aspect and not factoring this into your reasoning just shows how flawed or limited your argumentation is.

There is viability in expectation of increased player satisfaction by increasing availability and/or method of aquisition for the tonic. To this though I’ve argued that the gain might be negativ since once the rarity drops the actual satisfaction players might perceive would be less since now the actual reason for desire gets reduced. This effect can be argued/interpreted both ways (which I have also openly comminicated the entire time).

OriOri.8724:

Malediktus.9250:

No I didnt. If someone went to the same mechanics / same RNG to get the tonic, the rarity or prestige was not negatively affected. It is only is negatively affected, if the means of aquireing the item was changed to make it faster/easier/more reliable to get.
The “I want it all, I want it now” crew sure lacks basic understanding of how MMOs, rarity and prestige work together.

No one here is calling for Anet to just hand the tonics out, which is the only thing you ever seem to take from other comments. What they are calling for is for ANet to change how the tonic is obtained so that you actually can grind out for it and earn the tonic instead of relying solely on RNG for one of the lowest drop rates in the game. That’s not asking for a handout. You are the only one in this thread that has even mentioned this. This really isn’t that difficult of a concept

But they are, again I’ve explained this earlier.

Let’s assume the tonics drop with a 1 in 1,000,000 chance per run. To keep this rarity the price for tonics would have to be so high, that only 0,0000001 of the people trying for the tonic could afford one (simplistic view, the actual math works out differently but let’s just stick with: “it would be unreasonably expensive or hard to get”). Any type of alternative method would have to be this ludicrous to keep this rarity. (see my explenation of how precursor crafting was implemented earlier)

Since we can agree on that with such a new system in place no one would be happy or able to achieve their goal of aquiring the tonic (since no one in this thread would be able to get the tonic) arenanet would have to make the tonic available to a bigger audiance since a rarity close to 0 is near infinite in expense. Thus ultimately reducing its rarity.

Also the fact that you overexagerate the counter party perspective does not provide a good argument, it simply demonstrates your lack of argumentative skills or understanding of the issue.

OriOri.8724:

Cyninja.2954:

OriOri.8724:

Increasing the drop rate hurts no one. It just doesn’t, and no matter how much you go on, that won’t change the truth of the matter.

While not true (see scarcity creates value just above this reply), the same can be said about not increasing the drop chance. The item has no benefit or grants no benefit so not having it does not put someone at a disadvantage except for bruising their ego.

I completely agree. Increasing the drop rate hurts no one, and leaving it the same as it is now also hurts no one. But because increasing it hurts no one, @malediktus argument for leaving the drop rate alone is moot. And that is all I want him to understand. If ANet wants to leave the drop rate as it is then no one is worse off. But likewise if they wanted to just mail a tonic to every player in the game, still no one would be worse off. But that is exactly what @Malediktus is arguing, and it doesn’t make any sense at all.

I think you missunderstood my point.

I’m saying that the idea that no one is worse off when increasing the drop rate is incorrect. The mere fact that the item itsself loses value through reduction in rarity is already a loss, even if not measurable in some monetised quantity. While at the same time reducing the value of the item to its current owners.

On the otherhand, not increasing the quantity does not make anyone worse off since no one is negatively affected (since no one owned the item or could expect to own the item due to its pure rng drop nature). It’s the same as with lottery winners. No one who is not winning is worse off if nothing changes, but splitting the winnings between all players leaves the original winners with less winnings.

Raguel.9402:

pinkpandagirl.7615:

My boyfriend and I tried to do raids about 2 weeks ago, but we got kicked from the party because we apparently didn’t have enough DPS, even though we had Ascended Zerk gear, and others had Exotic only.

You do realise ascended zerker/viper gear doesn’t actually mean you’ll be doing super high dps right?

This.

Raguel.9402:

Had a war in a tier 4 volcanic fractal with twilight and whatnot and he was swinging his sword randomly around, not actually attacking the boss, every time the boss would bubble up. He did not do a ton of dps in that instance ;-) Gear =/= skill nor damage on it’s own.

and this.

It still amazes me how people think that by simply stating they are full ascended they believe they are guaranteed top dps. All this numbercrunching and comparison and over and over stating that the numeric difference between exotic and ascended is not that big has a reason.

Having full ascended means nothing. It simply opens up the possibility of someone running top dps. As possibilities go, with the wrong rotation, runes, build, prioritisation, etc. you might very reaslistically end up doing less damage than someone in part exotic. Especially if that someone gives 110% knowing that he is not full ascended while our full ascended person rests comfy knowing he has maximum gear.

eduardo.1436:

warbignime.4610:

eduardo.1436:

A lackluster story with lackluster choices, just like HoT.

The story is not lackluster at all, the problem of HoT story is not about quality, the problem of HoT story is that it lacks quantity leading to rushed plot on later parts. Quality wise HoT story exceed with flying colors with amazing mechanics, soundtrack and voice acting. All they need to do is increase quantity.

Maybe lackluster was a wrong choice of word (haha choice )
but in all seriousness Anet said there were going to be choices that had impact just like PS…….and we only got 2 that didnt affect the story in any way and let’s be honest: I am not the only one that despised the whole dream deus ex machina (the concept is fine…..but the execution? we go from “we need to find its weakness” to “let’s enter his mind” thing)

This.

I enjoyed HoT and have sunk enough time into the expansion and the content to make it my absolutely worth my money. Many of the gripes of other players I did not share because I was simply enjoying myself even if I had to learn playing a completely new class and got wacked by HoT high difficulty (which i found very fun to deal with though I do understand when people who come home after a days work simply want to “relax”. On that front maybe arenanet can split the new content design wise so both groups can be satisfied). Maybe the way to go is to make open world content easy and instanced content challenging.

I was very let down by the story though, not idea/lore wise but execution wise. The second half of the HoT personal story definately felt rushed. I love that they kept with the achievements for the personal story since it added replayability, but next time they need to up their game as far as exectution and length (mostly length, the mission themselves were fun I’d say).

OriOri.8724:

Increasing the drop rate hurts no one. It just doesn’t, and no matter how much you go on, that won’t change the truth of the matter.

While not true (see scarcity creates value just above this reply), the same can be said about not increasing the drop chance. The item has no benefit or grants no benefit so not having it does not put someone at a disadvantage except for bruising their ego.

First off, I absolutely disagree about the justifications that some people bring up about rarity not adding to the items value. You can spin it hower you want, rarity adds value no matter if justified or not.

Does it matter if it’s a pure down to luck rng rarity or not? Sure. If something is attainable via work or dedication it might be perceived as more valuable than something that was handed to someone due to extreme rng luck. Then again in some players eyes it it might just cause them to think:“Oh look, someone with no life who dedicated way to much time for such a useless item.”

Both sides to this discussion can be argumented for. The one thing that stays true though, scarcity creates value. It’s a basic economic principle. This very thread is an example of just that. If the fractal tonic were a common drop no one would even have bothered to open this thread or respond. Does it matter why the item is so rare? Sure, but that does not change the ultimate fact that it’s super rare even if it can’t be “worked towards”.

Now bringing up the argument of changing it’s availability to a less or none rng method. That would be possible, but if the same amount of rarity is supposed to be achieved the requirements would be ludicrous. Then we get the actual new problem of people who get the tonic (or already got the tonic) via random drop versus people who went through insane requirements to get it. This actually is almost the same situation as the original fratal skins. Please tell me how the addition of the fractal weapon box improved the item skins value? No one cares about silver fractal skins any more because every one has them.

I stand by my reasoning that the item is fine where it’s at especially since it has absolutely no beneficial effect or gives no more advantage to people who have it versus people who do not. Were this not the case I’d absolutely argue for opening the availability up.

I think what many do not realise is some rewards can be enticing even if you have no way of ever achieving them (or influence your possibility of gain). Funny enough, personally I think this game would have been dead ages ago without rng based rewards. Yes they are frustrating, yes they can scew in either direction (hello mystic forge blessed precursor generator accounts! How I wish mine was amongst your group) but ultimately they add a great sense of joy when the rng gods swing in your favor once in a while or for someone you know. It’s the reason people in guilds congratulate someone for hitting the jackpot in the mystic forge or finding that precursor drop (which I still have never seen after 3.5k hours playerd). Making every possible reward attainable via “work” turns this game exactly into that: work.

Now I know I’ve splashed in some example of rare drops which also have actual value mainly because those items are the only ones that come close to similar in rarity in this situation. In those cases I absolutely agree of adding a seperate method of aquisition (which funny enough was achieved by making the alternative economically less viable than the rng method. Translating this to an essentially not yet economically anchored item would be tricky in itsself).

Razor.9872:

Cyninja.2954:

Easy solution, join raid groups that are for new raiders or that run guide runs or are starting from scratch.

And how often do you see such raid groups? From my experience, I see maybe 1-2 every week — at best. I’ve played through plenty of weeks without seeing any. I understand that the next solution is the make your own, but how much should one do that until they are considered “ready?” Because such groups almost never get the kill; while 5 or 6 people may know what they are doing, the rest are still absolutely new. Is one considered “ready” when they get a boss to 20% or less? Because doing that doesn’t reward any LI’s.

And thus, the catch-22 continues. The excuse “I can’t get insights because groups won’t take me since I don’t have insights” is absolutely not bs. It is a real issue with real people. Saying that such people are thinking:

Cyninja.2954:

“I don’t want to waste my time learning the raid properly, thus I try to trick raids into taking me along so I can get carried.”

is what is bs. That is just perpetuating ignorant fabrication. That badge you mentioned is more arbitrary that you may think.

I see regular groups advertising and bigger GW2 communities run these events regularly and I’m not even actively looking for raids at the moment.

No, I did not suggest to “make your own” since if a player is at the stage of contemplating to trick raids to get taken along I highly doubt they have the will to even consider creating their own raid group.

Unfortunately, more often then not when threads show up (even on the official forums) where people/guilds offer raid training the threads are barren wastelands and the creaters of those threads can be happy if any one responds at all. No wonder, if every one tries to cheat their way into established raids.

Razor.9872:

Of course there are. But what you may not be considering is these people didn’t have to contend with an LI wall. At that time, everyone was new to everyting and “learning” runs were prosperous and abundant. Now, however, unless you stay on for 12 hours a day, you’d be lucky to see any mention of a training run. Understandably the next step is to create your own, but how much should that be done until one is considered “ready?” Until a kill is earned?

Yes, I’m sure the old raiders had no problem with LI proof. Then again day 1 raiders had to deal with:

- an inexperienced community and lack of guides
- establishing a working raid while members kept leaving if things did not go as planed
- keep the raidpool of available capable members healthy
- actually progress and finish the raid instead of just get taken along

I’m sure quite a few day 1 raiders would have loved to trade the “issues” some players have now for some of those problems. Yes, accessing an established and clear capable raid is harder than a new one, as it should be.

It wasn’t all roses and sunshine back then and multiple days of wiping on a boss until you finally had him down was common. Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

Jhoul.6923:

onevstheworld.2419:

I’ve been caught out by this too.
It should be reported as a bug, if only to get the wording clarified.

Yeah… its total bull crap! It is not clear at ALL, it says 90 cultural armors, not 1 set for each race/ tear. I got 144 skins right now… and only 72 counted for the AP.

… If I could get my gold back I could invest it again on 1 per race per tear…

I’ll Q__Q for a while. 400+ gold hurt.

(btw, I reported it, so everyone in the future might not go through this if ANET fixes or change the details in the AP.)

No it doesn’t say 90 cultural armors. The exact wording is:

“Soulbind 90 unique pieces of cultural armor.”

There is nothing to fix. The achievement is very straight forward and working as intended. It’s the overarching achievement for the racial fashion achievements. Those require tier 1-3 unique pieces of armor and even have checkmarks next to which piece was already purchased.

The total 90 different pieces of armor are made up of the 5 × 18 unique pieces of each race. While I will agree that the overarching achievement might be unclear as to multiple items from the same tier of different armor weight, one look into the fashion achievement tab should give a very clear answer as to what is needed.

What you can try is to contact support and ask for them to reverse the purchase. They might do that if you haven’t yet transmuted the skins. Then again they migh not have the ability to easily remove unlocked skins from the wardrobe.

Don’t think anything beats a multi loot AB farm. The amount of rares you can pull with enough keys is higher than running back to back SW events with 100% success rate.

Fay.2357:

Aceofsppades.6873:

OriOri.8724:

Malediktus.9250:

The rarity is what makes this tonic special – I see no reason to change it. And no I do not own a fractal tonic.
Not everyone needs to own everything. There is no right to have everything just because you bought the game, that is not how online games work.

You, falsely, assume that everyone wants this tonic because people like you see it as “special” due to its rarity. There are plenty of people that want it just to have fun with it. These are the people that don’t care if noone or everyone around them can also tonic into Mai trin for 15 minutes, as long as they can have fun doing so themselves. I don’t see a reason to keep the drop rate so incredibly low since its essentially just a toy

Why are the people that want it as a toy more valuable and worth more then the players that want it to be rare?

I already have a guess as to what your answer will be.

It’s not a question of the people, it’s a question of the arguments. The argument for wanting it to be rare is fallacious and absurd. The argument for wanting it to be obtainable is sensible and logical.

How is the argument for it to be obtainable more logical? Economically it’s the less sound argument, especially for items that hold little other value.

Even gameplay wise it could be argued that it’s the less sensible approach. Once the item becomes massavailable it loses its luster. Thus removing 1 more item from the game where people could try to hope for “hitting it big”.

Vlad.1739:

Reminder to Anet: Fractal Tonic is an RNG based account bound item that is as rare as a precursor. It is also gated behind a one chance per day mechanic. Please fix the drop rates or add other ways to obtain one that are somewhat reasonable.

And?

I’m not seeing the problem here.

So it’s rare → check.
It has no beneficial or otherwise mentionable value (unlike precursors) → check
It is bound on aquire (so no unfair “I made 900 gold thanks to rng”) → check
The only value it has is its rarity → check

So let’s make this game a tad more bland by removing ever little shred of value from rare items. That worked great for generation 1 legendaries.

We get it TC, you want the item. Tough luck, so do thousands more.

RoseofGilead.8907:

A glance at your post history shows that pretty much every post you’ve made over the past 6 months is a link to a video you’ve posted on youtube. So, you do self-promote pretty hard. You’re completely free to do that, though. I just won’t personally contribute to the viewer count.

This.

Now granted you at least put some effort into disguising your selfpromotion TC, but don’t pretend it’s not just that.

When 29 out of 50 recent posts contain a link to your youtube page, then that is pure selfpromotion. Especially when most of the remaining posts are answers in the same threads.

Razor.9872:

Harper.4173:

Razor.9872:

[&Aif2LQEA] = 39 Legendary Insights

Please

For the love of all that is good in this world — only use this if you know you can meet expectations. Otherwise, you are just setting yourself up to be a hindrance for other people.

This means bringing the best food/maintenance for your build, having TS/Discord handy, being responsive to group requests, and understanding/performing your role in the squad.

Well done – give him help in what he’s doing and hope he doesn’t ruin other people’s fun.

This is really sad.

You shouldn’t fake codes – get your insights and actually ping them. It’s not that hard.

Plus – if you fake them – chances are you’ll get kicked 99.99% of time.

The issue for a lot of people is that they find themselves in a situation where they can’t “get [their] insights and actually ping them.” It turns into a catch-22 where they need insights to join groups to get insights — even when they have reliably beaten the boss before on more than one occasion with the rare insight-requirement-less groups.

The way I see it is this: If the people pinging chat-codes are not good enough for the insights they ping, then they will be kicked regardless. However, there are plenty of people out there who are definitely skilled/knowledgeful enough to raid, but are gated out of groups because of their lime-limited-life imposing a LI shortage.

Easy solution, join raid groups that are for new raiders or that run guide runs or are starting from scratch.

Then again, that would mean you’d have to not get carried and might wipe a couple of times due to boss mechanics which you ultimately learn.

The excuse:

I can’t get insights because groups won’t take me since I don’t have insights is bs. Simply put it’s nothing more than:

“I don’t want to waste my time learning the raid properly, thus I try to trick raids into taking me along so I can get carried.”

Watching youtube videos is a great start and shows more commitment than what many are willing to do (then again, I’ve always been in raids where basic knowledge was expected before going for first trial runs). They are not enough to cover the bridge of “I’ve successfully killed this boss” though.

aelfwe.4239:

Vanth.5439:

In what way? As far as I know the raid team is a 5/6 man team.

Wait, is there anyone that really believes that? It can be 6 people planning the strats but a raid needs people to do the art, the models, the maps, the new weapons and armour, all the sound effects and textures… is there music written for them too? Not sure on that one. I find it hard to believe all those concept and environment and model and sound artists are counted in those six people anet said are working on raids. Yeah right…

Have you ever stop to think that the same thing apply to “ls team” or any other content-related-team of the game? xD

Coder, musician, graphic designer duty is to work across every contents of the game, you can’t count them as a part of the “raid team” because they work with every other team of the game (including ls). And Viceversa.

Raid team = people fully busied to work JUST over raid = 6, that is a really small number compared to the good quality of the raid content and to the number of people enjoying it.

I think what Vanth was trying to say was that the assumption of only 5-6 people working on raid content is ludicrous. The developer ressources are far higher. That is a direct counter argument to earlier:

DrEckers.2039:

Cyninja.2954:

TexZero.7910:

While they do a good job, this is probably the last set-piece we’ll see concerning Raids for a very long time….

I wouldn’t expect Raid 2 to happen for at least 6 months if not longer.

If ever.

While the raid team does a great job, I have a feeling that Arenanet will be moving away from raid content design. It just doesn’t attract enough players compared to the ressources it consumes.

Best result would be a new raid per future expansions but I doubt new raids will get added outside of those.

Where does this idea come from? Last we heard the raid team was only 5 people and that anet said in thier amas “raids attracted more people than they had been suspecting.” In a reddit survey, over 70% of the respondents had tried spirit vale and 30% intended to keep raiding?

Massively overperforming for a 5 man team.

So no, it’s not massively overperforming (though they are doing a fine job) and it’s also not far fetched to assume that ressources going to the raid team (art, design, balance, etc.) wise are in competition with other areas of the game which require those ressources (Living Story, maps, fractals, etc.).

I believe the point Vanth was making or the question raised is:

- are the ressources spent on raid design productive enough to keep arenanet devoting them

A question only Arenanet has an answer to and will understandibly not share.