Guild Wars 2

warherox.7943:

mortrialus.3062:

Skuzz.6580:

and? Where does it say that this Elite spec should out damage a core spec and out evade another?
Elite specs are not meant to be far superior than other core specs, so yes, probably another core spec has more evades, another has more damage, Elite specs are meant to open more options and diversity, not give you an overpowered version of other core specs.

Pro tip: If you like Blurred Frenzy that much, just use it when specced into Mirage??

Elite specs are supposed to be pure upgrades to the core specializations and side grades to each other. They’ve said that multiple times.

Literally all of the generation 1 elite specs are flat upgrades to core specializations with the exception of scrapper, which is still a flat upgrade to engineer in PvP.

It’s absurd to say the Daredevil is not a direct upgrade to the thief’s evasion capabilities. Or that Berserker isn’t a flat upgrade to a warrior’s damage, condition damage, and ability to pump out burst skills. Or that the Chronomancer isn’t a direct upgrade to mesmer’s team support capabilities and defensive capabilities.

Again, the Elite Specs are supposed to be stronger than core specs. They just aren’t meant to stronger than other elite specs.

Elite specs were never meant to be pure upgrades to the core professions and they shouldn’t be. They are upgrades right now and need to be toned down/reworked until they’re on the same level as core professions.

Never going to happen, never designed for, this was clear when generation 1 elite specialisations rolled out.

Forget that notion and get real, elite specialisations are upgrades and should be balanced against each other while augmenting the class for different things with each elite. Asking for anything else or even that arenanet rework and/or tone down generation 1 elites is insanity.

In WPs defence, he is in touch with the community and does express some of the issues in his recap video about his elite spec videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZNHGyKgXGA

He talks about all the elite specs and the disscussions going on and things he missed here and there. Mirage is from 32:06 – 36:40 and he covers some of the main issues people have been complaining about.

Mainly:

- his comments on the condi playstyle of mirage being new
- shatters not interacting well with the class mechanic of phantasms/clones in general
- mirrors being counterintuitive to the entire idea of confusing your enemy when they know exactly where you are going to move to

He has been (and I’m sure will remain) a great source of information and entertaining videos about GW2 lore (if you enjoy his lengthy presentation style) but should be taken with a grain of salt about his balance ideas.

forum bugs are cool

zealex.9410:

Cyninja.2954:

zealex.9410:

Cyninja.2954:

Zenith.7301:

zealex.9410:

Zenith.7301:

zealex.9410:

Zenith.7301:

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Durzlla.6295:

Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.

The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.

No need to be so confrontational.

Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.

Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.

So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.

Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?

If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.

You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.

“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.

You’re being painfully dense.

Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.

Read through some of zealex past posts on mesmer and his point of view.

Realise he is a huge troll and/or so bad at mesmer that any disscussion with him is wasted.

Move on and ignore him since he has literally been wrong about everything mesmer related for the last 6 months while at the same time calling for continued mesmer nerfs left and right.

Meanwhile every “good mesmer” treats the class like its barely functioning and overly up. Next time before you go say im trolling ppl do read the post use yr brain and then a make an arguement against it.

Every “good mesmer” is dealing with the classes issues, hasn’t been harping about nerfs for chronomancer or power mesmer buffs after august 8 always humming the same song about how Mirage is going to fix everything.

When was the last time you spent some time analysing new and old skills or actually played the class or gave an analysis besides “you are all wrong, I am right”? Exactly, never.

The good thing though is, everyone can actually look up your posting history and see for themselves just how terrible you are at balance ideas or mesmer in general.

I never said anything along the lines of “mirage will fix mesmer”. Or nerf power mesmer.
Iv spend quite some time discussing mesmer changes with ppl so i have yeah. As for y terrible suggestions ye they’re there feel free to take look might help you give better feedback instead of blowing the same “mirage is useless” horn.

You on power mesmer literally not even 1 day after the august 8 patch:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Either-make-power-mes-more-interesting

created by you, commented in by you, abadoned by you once you realised how silly you are looking.

In the next one you are going out of your way arguing that chronomancer and mesmer in general should lose distort with some more “interesting” arguments like comparing guardian auto attack rotation difficulty to mesmer rotation/job difficulty in raids or mesmer having always been a support class by design (which it is not, but purely due to it being craap at anything else):

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/ChronoTanks-and-alacrity/first

Let’s also not forget my favorit part of that thread where you literally state:

zealex.9410:

Overpowered doesnt mean everything it does is the best at that would be just broken. And i was talking more long term when mesmer gets a dps spec because they wont keep making suport specs. Then mesmer will have the ability to just go in have on par dps with other top dps classes and have distort to ignore mechanics.

Now we did get Mirage, it is not shaping up to be THE dps spec which you or others have hoped for, can we call all your arguments about how chrono should have been nerfed based on mesmer dps viability trash now?

I’m to lazy to go through threads where I was not forced to read through your nonsense, going through your posting history was painful enough and for anyone intersted there is certainly more there.

zealex.9410:

Cyninja.2954:

Zenith.7301:

zealex.9410:

Zenith.7301:

zealex.9410:

Zenith.7301:

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Durzlla.6295:

Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.

The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.

No need to be so confrontational.

Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.

Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.

So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.

Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?

If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.

You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.

“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.

You’re being painfully dense.

Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.

Read through some of zealex past posts on mesmer and his point of view.

Realise he is a huge troll and/or so bad at mesmer that any disscussion with him is wasted.

Move on and ignore him since he has literally been wrong about everything mesmer related for the last 6 months while at the same time calling for continued mesmer nerfs left and right.

Meanwhile every “good mesmer” treats the class like its barely functioning and overly up. Next time before you go say im trolling ppl do read the post use yr brain and then a make an arguement against it.

Every “good mesmer” is dealing with the classes issues, hasn’t been harping about nerfs for chronomancer or power mesmer buffs after august 8 always humming the same song about how Mirage is going to fix everything.

When was the last time you spent some time analysing new and old skills or actually played the class or gave an analysis besides “you are all wrong, I am right”? Exactly, never.

The good thing though is, everyone can actually look up your posting history and see for themselves just how terrible you are at balance ideas or mesmer in general.

Zenith.7301:

zealex.9410:

Zenith.7301:

zealex.9410:

Zenith.7301:

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Durzlla.6295:

Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.

The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.

No need to be so confrontational.

Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.

Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.

So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.

Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?

If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.

You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.

“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.

You’re being painfully dense.

Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.

Read through some of zealex past posts on mesmer and his point of view.

Realise he is a huge troll and/or so bad at mesmer that any disscussion with him is wasted.

Move on and ignore him since he has literally been wrong about everything mesmer related for the last 6 months while at the same time calling for continued mesmer nerfs left and right.

Skuzz.6580:

Levetty.1279:

Well theres the problem isn’t it. You have two choices Durzlla

1) Elite Specs are better then core: Mirage is useless because its weaker then core Mesmer.

2) Elite Specs are sidegrades to core with new ways to play: Mesmer already has better tools to dodge while attacking, Mirage adds no new ways to play.

Are we playing the same game?
1) Mirage is better than any other SINGLE core trait line, obviously, it is not stronger than 2 or 3 combined.

2) Am I the only one who sees ambush skills, a whole new set of abilities only available to Mirage, as well as a whole new dodge mechanic being introduced to Mirage only. ooh and access to an Axe??

Just because it is not on your Chronomancer Elite Spec level doesn’t mean it is worse than a core or does not give new things to play with..

You are just so short sighted.. but i guess that is a natural response when being disappointed

Read what Esplen wrote, better yet, actually play the class outside of open world and get a basic understanding of Mesmer before commenting please.

I’m tired of having people argue stuff who are so dislocated from the class and/or meta that they are caught by suprise about new builds over 3 weeks after they have been introduced with the most recent patch.

Now I get, not everyone runs to a training golem or follows qtfy or other raid guilds every new discovery or even cares, in those cases though please realise that you are nothing but anoying noise as far as class balance goes. There are those of us though who actually main this class with 2k and above hours played on it in all game modes.

Mirage is at best a side grade to some of our weaker core mesmer traitlines like chaos (ever since the upgrades with the August 8 patch) and considering how many clunky and unharmonious design decisions it brings with it, not considering it an upgrade is absolutely valid.

Durzlla.6295:

Cyninja.2954:

Durzlla.6295:

Zenith.7301:

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Durzlla.6295:

Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.

The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.

No need to be so confrontational.

Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.

Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.

So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.

You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.

That’s not what you said though. you exactly said:

Durzlla.6295:

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class

and in this case that is untrue since you can’t take 3 core traitlines with mirage thus you are effectively not able to use all your core abilities. Mirage is competing for a traitline slot and is barely better than the core trailines, which is the actual problem here.

Mirage does not prevent him from taking sword, signers, or the domination line as my original quote was talking about. But nice try.

And the elite specs really shouldn’t be that much stronger than the core specs, they should give a different playstyle, not an upgrade, just as Anet said they wanted it to be. The problem is they kittened up balance wise on the first batch and now everyone thinks elite specs are supposed to be a mandatory upgrade for you based on your role.

Ah “should be land”, yes while you are in “should be land” all the rest of us mesmer get to play with all the other classes and their new toys which provide new playstyles to their classes while also keeping the powerlevel even, at first elite level and not core level.

Mirage is absolutely fine when viewed through “should be” eyes, I agree.

Durzlla.6295:

Zenith.7301:

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Durzlla.6295:

Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.

The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.

No need to be so confrontational.

Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.

Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.

So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.

You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.

That’s not what you said though. you exactly said:

Durzlla.6295:

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class

and in this case that is untrue since you can’t take 3 core traitlines with mirage thus you are effectively not able to use all your core abilities. Mirage is competing for a traitline slot and is barely better than the core trailines, which is the actual problem here.

Durzlla.6295:

Cyninja.2954:

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Durzlla.6295:

Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.

The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.

No need to be so confrontational.

Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.

You can’t argue that mirage doesn’t take away anything and then list the things it takes away.

Having a worse dodge IS a huge deal. Having to replace the elite to compensate for this is no valid argument.

Having to give up 1 trait line IS a huge deal if it does not add anything significant versus core mesmer (which mirage does not).

If you add a lot of traits, utilities and mechanics and argue that variety is awlays a benefit I’ll just counterargue and state that this simply is not true when the stuff added is junk.

Also if you continue using all the core mesmer utilities, traits and skills while playing mirage, why bother picking up mirage in the first place if it adds nothing?

FaboBabo.3581:

Try moving while blurred. Try casting while dodging. Mechanic is great , we just need more endurance regen.

Yes because mesmer has long cast times and GW2 in general is littered with casting spells left and right and almost no skills are instant, oh wait. /s

I’m pretty sure quite a lot of people would gladly give up the “castering while (dodging)” mechanic of mirage for some more congruent mechanic intune with the class.

It’s not a worse dodge, it’s a better dodge since you can use it at literally any point, you can even use it while you’re airborne (unlike every other skill in the game), base Mesmer can’t dodge while stunned or immobed, Mirage can, you can’t dodge while casting a spell without interrupting it, Mirage can. Literally all you lose is the tiny roll you do, which isn’t even beneficial all the time.

And I didn’t say you needed jaunt, I said if that small mobility roll is essential to you for whatever reason, but you’re still wanting Mirage, you can take jaunt.

There’s plenty of elite specs that don’t fill their bar with only the new utilities, scrapper and DH being two that immediately come to mind, so I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t run a signet Mesmer build with sword should you really want to just go full hog on the evading while attacking thing.

Mirages dodge is worse when viewed within the context of how the game is designed (around the basic dodge mechanic). Even with superspeed it’s worse at evading backwards (compare that to Daredevils 3 dodges which are all enhanced significantly on top of being 3!!!).

You can argue as much as you want and call the movement with dodge tiny, small, insignificant or whatever. Does not make it true though. The entire game is designed around dodge (and it’s inherint movement) and the way it works for soon 96% of all classes/elites (26 out of 27). If that mechanic is changed, it has to be an improvement accross the board, mirages dodge is not.

It is funny that you are harping on about mirages dodge allowing one to cast when the entire game is designed around fast casts and almost no spell cast times (kind of a flip side to how this works with dodging). You are vastly overvaluing the cast while moving aspect of the dodge.

The fact remains, mirage (on top of having a worse dodge when viewd from a games core design aspect) provides a traitline which can easily be replaced by one from core mesmer, provides a lackluster weapon and kitten utilities.

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Durzlla.6295:

Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.

The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.

No need to be so confrontational.

Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.

You can’t argue that mirage doesn’t take away anything and then list the things it takes away.

Having a worse dodge IS a huge deal. Having to replace the elite to compensate for this is no valid argument.

Having to give up 1 trait line IS a huge deal if it does not add anything significant versus core mesmer (which mirage does not).

If you add a lot of traits, utilities and mechanics and argue that variety is awlays a benefit I’ll just counterargue and state that this simply is not true when the stuff added is junk.

Also if you continue using all the core mesmer utilities, traits and skills while playing mirage, why bother picking up mirage in the first place if it adds nothing?

FaboBabo.3581:

Try moving while blurred. Try casting while dodging. Mechanic is great , we just need more endurance regen.

Yes because mesmer has long cast times and GW2 in general is littered with casting spells left and right and almost no skills are instant, oh wait. /s

I’m pretty sure quite a lot of people would gladly give up the “castering while (dodging)” mechanic of mirage for some more congruent mechanic intune with the class.

mortrialus.3062:

Cyninja.2954:

No one is saying mirage should never ever shatter.

Have you seen the trait feedback thread or the various feedback threads on reddit? Because most people absolutely are. Almost everyone who commented on Infinite Horizon want it baseline because they’re convinced that it makes ambush attacks stronger, and that they think Mirage gameplay is supposed to be about setting up clones and having those clones do damage with Ambush attacks, even though clone ambush attacks are explicitly stated to not be about increasing your damage.

Most people who played the Mirage and commented in the trait feedback thread and the reddit feedback thread walked away thinking that phantasms and shatters are useless on it, and that it’s supposed to use clone ambushes for damage because of Infinite Horizon. That most people walked away thinking that is a problem.

My argument isn’t that Mirage is good. It’s not.

My argument isn’t that Mirage is an effective shatter build or better at shatter than Chronomancer. Because it’s not (Chronomancer is better at almost everything than Mirage).

My argument is that among the the many reworks Mirage needs, Removing Infinite Horizon should be one of them because most people walked away from Mirage thinking it isn’t supposed to use phantasms, or ever shatter, and that it’s about Clone DPS.

Cyninja.2954:

People are saying that the way the traits and the spec are designed, shattering is counterproductive.

You’re not wrong that shattering is often counter productive on Mirage (Playing Mirage in it’s entirety is counter productive). But there are multiple traits that are designed to make your shatters a key part of Mirage and the Ambush Attack playstyle by increasing access to Ambush Attacks. I’m not saying that makes it good, or that Chronomancer isn’t leagues better at running shatter builds.

Cyninja.2954:

You have failed so far in providing ample evidence to the contrary or even make a solid argument how chronomancer is less of a shatter spec than mirage.

That was never my argument. I also never said Chronomancer doesn’t use Shatters. Condi Chrono is the best PvP build and it is a pure shatter build that’s strong just because of the Chronophantasma trait.

But that’s not the only reason it’s strong. Part of why it’s strong is because Echo of Memory is one of the the best defensive skills in the game and also because continuum split is in theory and sometimes practice the strongest effective heal in the game. Both of which absolutely are major defensive components to the elite specializaton.

In PvE, Continuum Split is a key part of the chronomancer’s rotation. But that is expressly in the pursuit of pumping out as much quickness and alacrity to the group as possible, sometimes for shortening the cooldown of Moa. Occasionally it’ll use Diversion for more Breakbar damage in a pinch. I don’t know whether that crosses the threshold dividing Not Shatter Spec and Shatter Spec. I think you’ve gotten too hung up on that term and it’s purpose in my argument.

Again:

My argument isn’t that Mirage is good. It’s not good at all.

My argument isn’t that Mirage is better at shatter than Chronomancer or that it is even an effective shatter build or. Because it’s not (Chronomancer is better at almost everything than Mirage).

My argument is that among the the many reworks Mirage needs, Removing Infinite Horizon should be one of them because most people, just in terms of raw numbers from the feedback threads, walked away from Mirage thinking it isn’t supposed to use phantasms, or ever shatter, and that it’s about Clone DPS through Infinite Horizon.

How about responding to my actual argument next time?

You want a respons, here it is:

I think all your theorycrafting is lacking (to not use harsher words) and you are trying to tie arguments together which make no sense. That’s why you constantly need to clarify and shift arguments in this very thread.

I don’t think mesmer needs another shatter based elite, not at this time. Chronomancer was very sufficient in that regard.

As to Infinite Horizon, I would rather arenanet first decide on how and what direction they want to take Mirage before they start taking out some of the more unique traits which actually provide this elite with some type of uniqueness.

tl;dr: removing Infinite horizon traits does no more or less good for the mirage elite specialisation until arenanet decide what the elite spec is about, so your suggestion is m00t.

SLOTH.5231:

Just came back to the game last week after a couple year break. I’ve never been one for crafting and actually hate it. I play wvw don’t do raids and not really in to pve.

I’ve noticed it’s very hard to kill people in wvw now even one on one and I get my ass handed to me most of the time. I have full exotics but pretty sure everyone else is maxed in legendary gear by now.

Is there an easy way to obtain legendary gear for someone who just enjoys wvw only? I’ve noticed a npc that has legendary in wvw but says need to own the skin first so a bit confused.

As others have stated, this is likely mostly on you pal.

The notion that most wvw players are full legendary or even full ascended is silly. Especially the very harcore wvw players with multiple builds and multiple characters will likely be full exotic.

All of those players though (no matter if ascended or exotic) will have a ton of experience and practice on you which is way more valuable than the 5-10% stat bonus ascended provides (legendary does no provide any stat advantage versus ascended by the way).

mortrialus.3062:

OriOri.8724:

Loony.3714:

mortrialus.3062:

Saying Chronomancer is THE shatter spec and nothing else is nonsense. I never said ambush skills aren’t supposed to be what Mirage bring to the table and be good at. I just said it’s supposed to shatter. Yeah, Mirage has clone generation in it’s traits as well. The problem is that Deception Skills are really bad so it’s clone generation pales in comparison to Chronomancer’s Chronophantasia.

Wait I’m confused if three traits make Mirage a shatter spec then what Chronomancer’s:

Continuum Split: A whole new shatter
Time Catches Up: Super speed on illusions
Illusionary Reversion: Shatter skills generate a clone if you have enough illusions present.
Chronophantasma: Phantasms are resummoned after a shatter
Seize the Moment: Shatter grants quickness

By my count thats 4 traits and one additional shatter. So by your logic that makes it more of a shatter spec than Mirage. And in your words: “Chronomancer is a defense and support specialization”

So can you clarify why three traits make Mirage a shatter spec while chrono’s 4 traits and new shatter make it defense and support?

Of course he can’t, because mirage is anything but a shatter spec. Of those 3 traits OP is using as his “argument”, one of them buffs our ambush attacks, another one is a mirage mirror generation trait (so its more related to ambush attacks than it is to shatters), and the other one doesn’t fit thematically with shatters and needs to be reworked.

Mirage centers around mirage cloak and ambush attacks, it has

6 traits related to mirage cloak
3 traits tied to ambush attacks, along with a fourth that helps us gain access to ambush attacks via granting vigor

The best argument OP can come up with involves a maximum of 3 traits, of which 2 of them buff the kittening ambush attacks instead of buffing shatters. Yet we solidly have 6 traits for mirage cloak, and 3 traits that are actually tied to buffing ambush attacks.

Its pretty kittening clear that this is not a shatter spec, but is indeed designed around mirage cloak and ambush attacks. I mean hell, you literally can’t have a GM trait that doesn’t improve your mirage cloak gained from dodging. Every single one, including the minor, buffs either mirage cloak itself (including that gained from mirrors), or buffs dodging, which grants mirage cloak).

I never said Ambush Attacks and Mirage Cloak are not the central focus of Mirage. I’m trying to point out that Infinite Horizon has everyone falsely convinced that the design of Mirage involves; Never ever shattering, Only ever using clones and using Infinite Horizon to maximize Ambush Attack Damage (Which Infinite Horizon explicitly does not do). I’m pointing out that mathematically speaking, Dune Cloak is a better skill if your goal is to try and get as much damage out of Ambush Skills as possible (At least the Scepter and Staff ones) because clones have deliberately nerfed and condition damage and that even in the best possible scenario Infinite Horizon is worse.

No one is saying mirage should never ever shatter. People are saying that the way the traits and the spec are designed, shattering is counterproductive. You have failed so far in providing ample evidence to the contrary or even make a solid argument how chronomancer is less of a shatter spec than mirage.

The problem with mirage is that it’s all over the place, turning it into yet another shatter spec (yes, chronomancer is a shatter spec) would require massive reworks trait and skill wise. It might just be better to rework the F1-F4 skill while in mirage spec to fit a non shatter theme, the spec is halfway there already.

mortrialus.3062:

Mirage is clearly supposed to be a shatter spec.

No it’s not. Stop being a special little snowflake or at least bring some solid arguments that aren’t shot down with a basic glimps at traits (without even looking for synergies and rotations).

The best at this point in time would be for arenanet to decide what exactly they want mirage to be, and for better or worse fix the design to fit that role (even if that makes it a Deadeye similar niche specialisation).

Don’t boost a mesmer period.

You are an inexperienced player who has a pool of 8 classes to chose from for which none of which you have any experience. Mesmer should be your last pick if at all.

The class is complex enough and you will not enjoy starting it at level 80.

Boost one of the more traditional classes like warrior, ranger or guardian (all of which have viable endgame builds).

If you absolutely want a mesmer, get to know the game a bit better, then use scrolls and tomes of knowledge down the road to get one to level 80.

If you still don’t want to follow my aedvice, at least play the class to level 30 to get a feel for some of the skills, then boost.

Feersum Endjinn.4179:

Mesmer tank is easy, but that may be because I have been playing it for a while. Will admit raids are a steep learning curve for a tank, but I don’t see what all the fuss is about. I suppose I can understand why people don’t like it as if you make a mistake, you can wipe the group, whereas the mindless classes (dps/cps) seem to get away with loads.

I love these statements. Nothing is hard once you are good at it. You even state yourself that all the other roles (mostly dps) get a free ride difficulty wise.

Mesmer is easy comapred to what? Playing Bethovens 5th blindfolded with 1 arm?

Feersum Endjinn.4179:

As an example, I raid with my guild twice a week, we are currently stuck on Deimos. As the tank, I have just today spent about 4.5 hours wiping, but I made one mistake in that whole time, its usually the DPS that screws the pooch on there, although they tend to not like hearing that its their fault. So, if you want to play chrono, you need a certain temperament.

Deimos has to be the 1 fight where you can go brain-afk on mesmertank. Poor fight to pick as example.

Deimos requires exactly 3 people who know what they are doing:
- 1 chronotank who can press WoP every 30-40 seconds and dodge one of the most obvious boss attacks ingame
- 1 black kiter who can stand behind the boss and run up to the tank every 30-40 seconds
- 1 handkiter

Now stack your dps in the center and have them range pewpew if they are to stupid to deal with boss mechanics and occasionally pick up a tear. Done.

Since timegating creates value and is a valid way for people to make gold ingame by selling their timegated materials,

While at the same time removing gold from the overall gold supply (via TP tax),

I doubt those 20$ you propose would make up for the damage this idea would do to the games economy.

If you can’t wait, spend those 20$ on gems, convert to gold and buy the timegated materials you need.

Focus is certainly not as bad or useless as many make it out to be.

Godtier though? Absolutely not.

Nothing new in your video and the skill of .ost of those opppnents was improvement worthy. Maybe it’s NA versus EU, maybe just some unlicky matches.

If there is any godtier offhand for mesmer at the moment, it’s got to be shield.

Metavahn.7293:

Then why would i continue to grind at endgame as a mere 99 percentile player? i feel i will get max level then quit this game untill i can see all the content i payed for, and just go back to WoW/FFXIV that has that required feature.

If you are contemplating leaving for WoW or FFIV in the first place, GW2 is not the game for you. If you are enjoying GW2 for the game that it is you’d find a way to raid or not care about raids.

Also the amount of players raiding is quite a bit higher than 1% at this point in time.

As others have mentioned, it’s doubtful that the little amount of raid story would have kept you playung the game in the first place, better run back to WoW and get that LFR welfare gear now.

Josh.4016:

Are you looking for a condi mesmer or chronotank?

Chronotank first and foremost, decent support mesmer gets the second most demanded spot.

Though if you have to ask if condi or chronotank, you are shockingly out of sync with the raid meta.

I’m actually on vacation starting tomorrow so no GW2 for me for a while, after that you can hit me up ingame if you want (I play on EU though so if you are US it might be difficult timedifference wise). I will leave you with Kaiyanwan.8521 guide to mesmer though since I found it very entertaining and useful for new mesmers:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-The-Leveling-Open-World-Compendium-1/first#post5342268

Enjoy reading and following it.

If you want to take a look at how different classes play rotation wise in raids, go to quantifys website (qtfy.eu) and look at some rotation videos (mesmer is up there too). If you are german Lucky Noobs is a viable alternative (https://lucky-noobs.com/).

Boons are aleady caped in raids, why would a raid take a low damage mesmer for might when a cps or ps does it better while running close to top dps like numbers? You are confusing me.

Ah missread, yes boonshare mesmer is a thing in wvw for zerg support, though might gets provided by other classes because phantasm/clone uptime is near 0 in those fights (https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Support_Chrono). In every other are of the game like open world pve, who cares?

Imperadordf.2687:

Hot Boy.7138:

I find support chrono in raids to be very relaxed. As a support chrono, I never have to go up to cannons on sabetha, or worry about eating on sloth, or worry about killing mortars on trio, or the chess pieces on overseerer. Just have to do my rotation and chill out. And support chrono is the best support in the game since it’s essentially a bard. A buff spec where all you do is maintain boons on the whole party.

I just want to add that as a support chrono, no one really cares about your dps unless you’re doing a speed clear and/or trying to set a record. So you can go full minstrel, or half minstrel if you want. You will be able to ignore mechanics if you feel like it cause they won’t be able to one shot you. Like matthias hadouken will never get you below half health if you don’t feel like dodging, or if you don’t feel like gettingin Cairn’s green circles, that won’t kill you either. Can just chill out and just maintain your rotation. If the bare minimum is your goal and just relaxing, i think support chrono is a good way to go.

That is what I was looking for. Thanks.

Support chrono is definately not ranged. It’s frontline.

It’s also by far not “easy” (check quantifies chrono build if need be: https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/mesmer/power-chrono/) and especially not easy when played to full extent. Granted that BGDM is not available any longer and raid leaders won’t be able to check your boon uptime on party members (preventing them from kicking you if you bring subpar performance) quite as easily.

With your current knowledge and understanding of the class you are far off from joining raids and I would absolutely not recommend for you to start building minstrel yet. Reasons being:

- there is a shifting meta happening with PoF
- Minstrel is useless outside of raids and actually makes open world play more tedious

While Hot Boys assessment is not off, he completely failes to realise who he is giving advice to, in your case a new player to the game with little understanding of mechanics, builds, metas and most of all gear and ressources. The perfect mixture to turn someone off the game by making them jump 10 steps.

Imperadordf.2687:

I was asking about Mesmer but thanks. By relax I meant staying in the backline while my phantasms and clones do the damage and in the backline I give boons to my allies and do ranged damage to my enemies.

Doesn’t work. Boonshare/support mesmer is front or midline. Your main support comes from sharing boons with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Inspiration.

You can hang back with mesmer at long range and have phantasms do damage, it will not be efficient though and your team support will be nonexistant mostly.

Imperadordf.2687:

I tried Sword/Sword, Scepter/Torch, Scepter/Pistol, and Greatsword. I’m asking that is there a build/traitline that will allow me to play relaxed and supportive.

On mesmer or thief? No.

Neither thief nor mesmer are designed to just “relax” since both classes rely heavily on their abilities and dodges to avoid damage. Thief does so more via dodge and evades, mesmer via blocks and invuls.

If it’s only open world you are worried about then:

- you can x+pistol/shortbow thief. Pistol 5 for an aoe blind field which will take care of most core Tyria enemies and you can tank+spank. Shortbow for the high movement with 5.

- on mesmer you can sw+f/gs. Focus 4 to pull enemys together and then burst down with sword 2+mind wrack. Greatsword for ranged tagging. You will run into downtimes due to phantasm recharges

Both of those approaches will get you through core tyria without problems. HoT and Living World Season 3 you will run into issues though (or against Dredge as thief).

Bored? No, especially the changes to core Mesmer make switching between raid chrono and power mesmer for open world stuff very fun.

Not sure yet how much Mirage I’ll be playing come PoF. Depends mostly on how many changes and clunkiness fixes arenanet puts in before PoFs release. I’ll probably give it a shot in open world but switch back to either chrono or core mes very fast if it’s similar to the state it’s in now.

Hot Boy.7138:

I don’t know anyone that mains guardian that would have been excited about firebrand. I did fight a coupe, but not a lot. but it doesnt excite me at all. I’m more into scholar classes than anything else.

You must know some pretty bad guardian mains. The most I’ve talked to are stocked about 1 button perma quickness and Firebrands damage potential for pve.

zealex.9410:

Or you can turn around while dodging and run. Even use sword ambush as well or scepter ambush is a small phase retreat the turn around and reposition.

A bandaid fix for an issue that shouldn’t exist in the first place.

I can do lots of things, one of them should not be have to work against my class mechanic.

Hooglese.4860:

The more fair complaint is that it plays a lot like base mesmer and I like that. Chrono plays drastically different to base mesmer; it’s a bruiser/support mesmer. Mesmer traditionally doesn’t do that, just burst damage, and mirage does more of that. Playing mirage like a Chrono is going to be a bad time.

That’s just it, it players a lot like core mesmer and is worse at fullfilling this role in many regards.

Hooglese.4860:

Another thing: mirage cloak doesn’t mean you can’t get out of circles – it gives you super speed which makes you go a little further than a dodge roll (315 units in 0.75s vs dodge rolls 300). It’s only not the case if your going backwards but hey, there’s also Jaunt/blink/sword ambush/blurred frenzy/distortion…

That’s a very very very big “only” though. Pve, spvp and wvw all have parts where side or backward dodges are essential.

In pve against certain raid bosses you really want to back dodge (say when Deimos aoe knockbacks at exactly the same time as green circle is up and your mesmers are not used to distorting).

Spvp should be kind of obvious, without proper back dodges you are a sitting duck. It’s a huge disadvantage especially when your enemy knows you can’t properly backdodge, which people will figure out very fast against Mirage.

In wvw when disengaging backwards to regroup before pushing back in.

You make it out to be such a minor issue when exactly this one aspect of superspeed versus dodge is huge and a very big disadvantage. We shouldn’t have to burn movement utilities for something every single other class has baseline. If at all our dodge with Mirage should be an advantage.

No (I would not refund), even as mesmer main (or especially as mesmer main) I’ve gotten used to the fact that we are no warriors, elemtalists or guardians.

Granted the last 2 years with HoT were different somewhat compared to vanilla (guardians being not 100% required for once, elis not being as dominant especially as dps) and we were very desired with an elite spec that sort of worked. The core issues of our class were never fixed though, something every mesmer should been aware of.

I’m still enjoying the game immensely and have the luxury of having multiple endgame geared characters. I’ll just play one of those as temporary new main (as I have in the past) until Mirage becomes fun, or stay chrono if need be.

Being happy with an elite spec should not be a reason for refunds, that would basically mean it was the only reason you were interested in GW2 PoF and I do hope most people are more intersted in the story, mounts, new additions to the game, etc.

Frostball.9108:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Abelisk.4527:

I have to agree with Frostball. I have fallen in love with Mirage and it’s disheartening to see a lot of people not enjoying the playstyle. I’m still tweaking my build constantly.

It’s not the play style that people don’t like I think per say. It’s the fact that half the stuff doesn’t work, have synergy with existing traits, etc.

Axe was a horrible choice for a main hand when the community had been asking for pistol, focus, and dagger. All potentially would have made for a better mainhand. Heck Pistol would be great because it’s a condi spec. But axe sucks. The clunky, pathing doesn’t work well, and damage is to low range to short. Dodges are having to be used offensively for burst, that’s completely against the inherent mechanics. Then you have the issue it’s slow. Chrono fixed that but now you’re back to travelers rune or what not for speed. This leads to the fact Mirage mirrors tend to spawn where you aren’t at and then you have to walk to them or burn blink/jaunt to use them.

Like I said, I like the idea and the potential play style. Anet Judy didn’t do it justice.

Im not talking about the design of the spec, i think the design is actually quite horrible so far and some skills are just really out of place and underpowered but that doesnt mean the specialization is bad. Like i made an example of the dodge stunbreak trait, the design of it really isnt healthy for the game but its an extremely powerful effect, like the daredevil dodge.

So which is it, a horrible design or extremely good?

Do you understand that for many mesmer the overpowerdness (which you still fail to demonstrate) is not what draws them to a class but rather how fun the class is?

Maybe your title and original first comment should read more along the lines of:

Mirage has some insane burst on unsuspecting and inexperienced players in spvp. The mechanics are badly designed, unfun and counterinutitive for the class though.

Also the fact that you see Mirages survivability beyond that of chrono is just hilarious.

Azukas.1426:

Cyninja.2954:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec?

None actually, we pretty much knew their power levels quite accurately from about 3 hours past release.

You have to remember, we’re not coming at this from the perspective of fresh players exploring a new game.

This very same thing happened with HoT betas.

Once again patience is the correct action at this time.

Except that people complained a lot about the HoT elites and arenanet gave them a thorough overhaul before bringing them live with revenant even getting a weapon swap mechanic.

You are literally contradicting yourself.

People are now complaining again hoping arenanet will listen and do a thorough overhaul once again fixing issues. Waiting and doing nothing is exactly the last thing which should be done.

That and with HoT betas they had a LOT more time between betas and release and they did 3 open beta weekends as early as 3 months before expansion launch (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beta).

So yes, if people are fine with being beta testers after PoF launches for the next 6 months (which we will be no matter what happens), then waiting is the correct course of action.

The best working and fun build people have found so far for Mirage is a power build (haven’t tried it myself, the reception on reddit was quite high). A power build on literally our condi dps elite specialisation where almost NOTHING says power with just about none of the Mirage utilities and sort of okay traits because useful utility skills is to much to ask for. Yipee, fun.

EDIT: took out my small jab at anet because balancing and implementing new builds and specs is a really tough job, I’m just still salty Mirage is so clunky.

And on release how was that PvP balance? Remember season 1 in all its glory?

Maybe we wouldn’t have had as large of a power creep & kept core specs viable. Who knows? What’s done is done and lets learn from the past ok?

You keep being under the impression I’d be asking for buffs, I am not.

I am asking for fixes and reworks so the elite specs WORKS and is FUN. Fun does not equal spvp dominance for everyone you know.

Something that won’t be doable with some number changes here and there, that’s what balance is for.

Also while I agree to your spvp balance argument, you do have to realise you are talking about the absolute niche part of this game. If arenanet want’s GW2 to remain successful their first and foremost priority has to be pve, the game mode played by the vast majority of their customerbase.

Having working and fun builds there should be the top most priority. Rebalancing for spvp and wvw can always be done afterwards.

EDIT: to not be missunderstood since wording might be confusing. I’m absolutely for dedicated spvp and wvw focused builds (Spellbreaker is amazing for wvw for example). I do want these builds to work and be fun though.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec?

None actually, we pretty much knew their power levels quite accurately from about 3 hours past release.

You have to remember, we’re not coming at this from the perspective of fresh players exploring a new game.

This very same thing happened with HoT betas.

Once again patience is the correct action at this time.

Except that people complained a lot about the HoT elites and arenanet gave them a thorough overhaul before bringing them live with revenant even getting a weapon swap mechanic.

You are literally contradicting yourself.

People are now complaining again hoping arenanet will listen and do a thorough overhaul once again fixing issues. Waiting and doing nothing is exactly the last thing which should be done.

That and with HoT betas they had a LOT more time between betas and release and they did 3 open beta weekends as early as 3 months before expansion launch (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beta).

So yes, if people are fine with being beta testers after PoF launches for the next 6 months (which we will be no matter what happens), then waiting is the correct course of action.

The best working and fun build people have found so far for Mirage is a power build (haven’t tried it myself, the reception on reddit was quite high). A power build on literally our condi dps elite specialisation where almost NOTHING says power with just about none of the Mirage utilities and sort of okay traits because useful utility skills is to much to ask for. Yipee, fun.

EDIT: took out my small jab at anet because balancing and implementing new builds and specs is a really tough job, I’m just still salty Mirage is so clunky.

Azukas.1426:

nothelseth.4621:

‘’Helseth, arguably a very good spvp player, barely managed to put a dent into a core thief.
’’

this made me laugh. Are the forums really this disconnected from how the competitive players are like?
I had close but losing duels vs sindreners daredevil.

That’s not a random core thief.

Randoms, aka people like you, I stomped while qing, winning 2v1s etc.

Anyhow that’s besides the point.

Having crafted around I basically got this final verdict:

Mirage is dependant on two things to be useful. 1. clones and 2. Mirror shards.

Mirror shards are just bad and need buffs/reworks to be useful and clones will never be better than phantasms for pvp usage because clones die too easily. The concept of giving your clones survivability through evading for them is a cool idea but sadly not practical.

Chronomancer is still top tier and will be used in pvp so mesmer is gucci

Ok let’s say in a few months once we get a full handle on the entire elite & get a balance patch or two we should see Mirage’s full capabilities. I fully expect it to supplant Chrono in time.

Now this is assuming Anet will nerf HoT elites soon to make way for the PoF ones or considerably buff the PoF ones.

Personally I like that we might have each elite viable in it’s own way.

So Mirage is fine as long as:

- it gets fixed some where down the road
- HoT elites get nerfed
- it does not get outperformed by PoF elites (you didn’t mention this one, I kindly added it)

Those are some very big IFs and WHENs.

Each HoT elite is viable in its own way too, just that some are more viable than others.

Personally I don’t care if it’s viable or not, I want it to be FUN. That Mirage is not. Multiple unfun mechanics on top of each other (and worse still: contradictory) does not a fun mechanic make.

Hot Boy.7138:

I strongly feel that Mirage should have gotten dual axes. Mirage really needs an offhand that compliments the spec and the main hand weapon well. The offhand weapon needs to be developed from the ground up. I don’t feel like any of the current offhands now truly go well with the mirage, with the exception of the offhand sword because it is the only one that produces a regular clone with its block. The fact that all the offhand weapons have a phantasm on it, just feels like a waste because the build is really not meant for phantasm. It’s meant for ordinary clones.

I really think anet needs to develop an offhand to go along with this spec.

This is actually a good point.

While I don’t think an offhand would solve most of the clunkiness issues (and more and more unfun mechanics stacked on top of each other), having an offhand axe and 5 weapon skills designed specifically around Mirage may have at least made the flow of battle somewhat enjoyable.

Indeed a missed opportunity.

Fay.2357:

Overall Feel

The overall feel of Mirage is….okish. 4/10 at best. It has a lot of clunky mechanics, a lot of really bad traits, and overall just doesn’t really feel smooth to play. The mechanics don’t combo well with any other classes and overall seem more like gimmicks than actual usable mechanics.

This summs up how I felt about Mirage myself.

It’s getting annoying that mesmer need to play against their own class mechanic in so many forms.

Chrono put bandaid fixes on some issues. Mirage was the possibility to remedie some of the others or straight up fix some of the issues but instead feels like a step in the wrong direction. Instead of less convoluted, prohibitiv and unfun mechanics we get more.

This is how I feel the design process for Mirage went:

Idea A: Let’s give the mesmer some thief like ambush abilities to up their personal damage and move away from their main damage coming from phantasms.
Amendment A: Great Idea, but let’s have clones do the damage, I’m sure their 0.5 second survival won’t be an issue. Also let’s not let the ambush skill last to long, wouldn’t want to have any type of strategic play be required.

Idea B: Mesmer love being all over the place (no we don’t), let’s give them a new class mechanic where they have to run through crystals in order to use their offensive ability.
Amendment B: Love it, but let’s make sure the crystals first have to spawn and only remain active for 4 seconds. Let’s also f-up their dodge skill to make movement more of a hassle.

Idea C: Guys, we’ve trolled mesmer hard enough. Let’s give them the ability to retarget their clones midfight. It’s been an issue for so long, they’ll love it.
Amendment C: Okay, but put it on the new weapon so they are forced to use the new elite spec and this issue isn’t resolved longterm meaning we can take it away next elite specialisation. Also don’t forget to take away any type of defensive skill for the new weapon, make them use the new dodge mechanic.

Idea D: What about mesmer elites, now without chrono they are left with their 180 second Timewarp and Moa, we’ve given other classes similar yet way more powerful abilities on shorter base cooldowns. Let’s give mesmer some type of movement ability to compensate for some of our earlier design decisions.
Amendment D: Fine, but make it 400 range and keep the damage low. It’s a mesmer elite after all, expectations aren’t to high.

Random Person overhearing the design team: Guys, are you sure this is fun. Has anyone actually playtested the class in this state?
Design team: Playtested? Are you nuts? No one here plays mesmer.

Daharahj.1325:

Ithilwen.1529:

Daharahj.1325:

Mirage is in a pretty decent spot tbh, just a couple of rough edges, you’re all overreacting.

Utilities need a buff that’s for sure, sword#1 ambush might get nerfed down the road.

A pretty decent spot? Please tell us why you think so. I vehemently disagree.

If you trait for vigor and condition damage the burst is scary good (this means going Dune Cloak over Infinite Horizon), and you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate; basically you take advantage of your superior evasion frames.

You can figure out what works best for you, but I find that the synergy between damage and elusiveness makes Mirage a pretty good spec.

Yes and once people figure this out they will literally wait for our burst andthen block, evade, cleanse or invul it following up with wiping the floor with us.

Burst was never a problem for mesmer. It was always only a IWIN button against low skill opponents. Higher tier it has always been the survival and longterm game, see chrono.

Add on top of that the very clunky mechanics, the underwhelming utilities on top of our already punishing base mechanic and you get why people are not hyped.

Also most people keep comparing mesmer/chrono/mirage with what they know. Some of the other classes new elite specs are specifically designed for pvp/wvw (warrior, thief, ranger) or to compensate for lack of pve utility (guardian, revenant, necromancer). I doubt mesmer will remain in a good spot against some of those classes after PoF.

musu.9205:

Cyninja.2954:

No matter what happens, this is basically how PoF will workout for me:

- play my Mesmer main through the story and unlock the elite spec and roam around the new maps checking out most stuff. Depending on how enjoyable Mirage is I’ll either be doing that as Mirage or switch back to chrono or even core power mesmer

- wait for new raid builds to come out and see if mesmer has a spot

- play through the story and unlock the elite spec on one of the other raid classes I am playing (warrior, guardian or revenant). Most likely guardian since the new warrior elite seems way more pvp oriented

- play through PoF with necromancer since Scourge seemed dope and necro in open world is faceroll easy

- finish all the other classes (very likely Holosmith first since it looks nice, might go with weaver too since supposedly the rotation is very fluent)

but i think you dont need play through pof for elite if you have enough hero points ?
or you jsut want to try story out .

thats nice , but i need to see the quality of story telling in POF first so i can decide if its worthy to play story multi times

Doesn’t matter to me. My main is my main and I finish everything on her sooner or later.

Elite specs I’m not sure, maybe they will be story unlocked maybe not. If it’s only hero points then I’m good on 1/2 my characters already.

The HoT story was also nothing to write home about, yet I still finished it on 23 characters.

To me it’s more a matter of which classes I play first after mesmer.

No matter what happens, this is basically how PoF will workout for me:

- play my Mesmer main through the story and unlock the elite spec and roam around the new maps checking out most stuff. Depending on how enjoyable Mirage is I’ll either be doing that as Mirage or switch back to chrono or even core power mesmer

- wait for new raid builds to come out and see if mesmer has a spot

- play through the story and unlock the elite spec on one of the other raid classes I am playing (warrior, guardian or revenant). Most likely guardian since the new warrior elite seems way more pvp oriented

- play through PoF with necromancer since Scourge seemed dope and necro in open world is faceroll easy

- finish all the other classes (very likely Holosmith first since it looks nice, might go with weaver too since supposedly the rotation is very fluent)

The original design idea was for a clone to appear and laugh at you for using the skill but due to time constraints the animation has not yet been implemented.

nothelseth.4621:

‘’Helseth, arguably a very good spvp player, barely managed to put a dent into a core thief.
’’

this made me laugh.

I had close but losing duels vs sindreners daredevil.

That’s not a random core thief.

Randoms, aka people like you, I stomped while qing, winning 2v1s etc.

Anyhow that’s besides the point.

Having crafted around I basically got this final verdict:

Mirage is dependant on two things to be useful. 1. clones and 2. Mirror shards.

Mirror shards are just bad and need buffs/reworks to be useful and clones will never be better than phantasms for pvp usage because clones die too easily. The concept of giving your clones survivability through evading for them is a cool idea but sadly not practical.

Chronomancer is still top tier and will be used in pvp so mesmer is gucci

Glad you took my comment personal even if it was not intended as an insuilt. I was refering to the build being core thief, obviously the player had a lot of skill, or at least I assumed he did.

I was refering to the fact that a core thief build, not even daredevil, was giving our new likely damage elite spec a hard time.

musu.9205:

meanwhile in pvp map chat : mirages have 90% evading frame
me : thats impossible
people : link the duel line trait which gives vigor on crit , see vigor , more dodge

be ready to get nerfed from trash tier guys . coz once you open map chat you will find there are many people mindlessly followed wp comment : mirage is over tuned

You’re telling me that a high burst class with dodge mechanics has a high win rate against mediocre and bad players? No say it aint so.

Mesmer back at launch was the absolute same and for a long time was and still is the primary class people whine about when they first enter competative game modes (similar to thiefs). Once the players get good, things change.

Helseth, arguably a very good spvp player, barely managed to put a dent into a core thief.

Fay.2357:

musu.9205:

meanwhile in pvp map chat : mirages have 90% evading frame
me : thats impossible
people : link the duel line trait which gives vigor on crit , see vigor , more dodge

be ready to get nerfed from trash tier guys . coz once you open map chat you will find there are many people mindlessly followed wp comment : mirage is over tuned

The mesmer problem has always been that it’s very strong against bad players. The mirage mechanics exacerbate this problem. Since the vast majority of players are utter trash in GW2, this leads to predictable complaint issues.

Agreed, unfortunately if the whines are strong enough arenanet will react.

I do think we are moving towards a more tanky meta though and with weaver, deadeye (did someone say 20k crits from 1500 range?) and some of the other elite specs, there will be a lot of whining going around.

I’m more afraid our mechnic will remain clunky and unfun, the other stuff I can deal with. For gods sake I stuck by this class during the worst of times when just about every 2nd of our skills was buged. Bad mechnic will make it a lot harder though.

To much is influx at the moment.

I gave all classes a short spin but gave none of them more than 10 minutes of an “ah intesrting, wierd, okay I guess that’s supposed to work that way”.

Mirage did not come out on top, by a long shot. Most fun was definately Holosmith (probably cause most straight forward), Weaver (elementalists will become even more insane in wvw) and Scourge.

Mirage seemed clunky though I will confess that this is likely be due to the missing dodge and having to get used to this. The ambush skill seemed meh, it basically triggers on your next autoattack or you miss it. With 1/2 to 3/4 of a second uptime there is barely any strategic play involved and it’s a simple damage increase.

Watched 30 minutes of helseths pvp antics. Seemed to me like he didn’t really make it work though that is to be expected with such a twitchy new build (as if we needed even more of that as mesmer, yay…). With some of the tankiness coming to the game Mirage seems super squishy at the moment. Maybe if decked in traiblazer or so, time will tell.

Pve wise I couldn’t get any practice on a golem in since they were all swarmed. The condition application did seem quite high so maybe a meta damage build might be for us raid wise.

The utilities while interesting and fun (and sort of a new mechanic, unlike most classes which got copy-paste stuff from other classes) did seem underwehlming. Works well enough since this way we can take SoI for raids I guess relieving pressure on boonshare somewhat.

All in all I’m on an okayish vibe, but mostly because I feel like chrono is quite a strong elite support wise. Our new elite is definately not the new fancy toy as some of the others might be. Guess our best hope is for it to bring lots of damage to the table or else it’s definately not meta.

EDIT: forgot to add firebrand and it’s bascially mantras on steroids, nice that guardian gets a mesmer mechanic after almost 5 years just in good.

When doing map completion for Dragon Stand you need to join a meta map which finishes the event since the last 4 hero points as well as some POI and 1 vista are locked behind completing the map.

Things of importance:
- once the blighted tower event is over, make sure to get the POI and hero points from the other 2 lanes besides the one you completed. The reason you might be missing those is that the map is completed on 3 lanes which merge at the very end

- make sure to get the vista and hero point at the very end after killing the dragon. Have someone portal or teleport to a friend to get the hero point if need be

- everything else before the blighted towers can be reached at any point in time given correct masteries or a friendly mesmer who can portal

Use an event timer to see when the meta resets and join a map. There usually is always at least 1 map that runs the meta with enough people (unless during absolutely off hours).

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ig3op/easiest_core_tyria_mastery_points_all_49_required/

and those 49 do not include:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6pm6w8/all_9_central_tyria_mastery_insight_locations/

which were added last month.

Gl on getting the remaining mastery points you need.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

The real problem is:

185

Always hurts to see a fellow 185er.

The escort event (Boss 1 Wing 3) is run often enough by pugs and is very easy.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It seems fairly clear that if they’re adding legendaries with PoF, weapons are not it.

Maybe we’ll get a set of legendary trinkets for PoF instead.

This.

They supposedly have the entire legendary trinkets maped out and it’s a safe bet those will be added with PoF and require PoF exploration.

I do think the gen 2 legendary weapons should remain HoT specific since that’s what they original were advertised for.

ArcanistSeven.8720:

Cyninja.2954:

Most points as to why there changes are bad were already pointed out and I wholeheartedly agree.

Here is the big one though which makes all of this nonsens, well nonsense:

“You’re assuming every player will have PoF and access to mounts, which will not be the case.”

That’s all that needs to be said to shoot down any of these rubbish ideas.

“Having mounts locked behind an expansion probably means nothing like this will ever happen unless they think it will boost exp pack sales but for the sake of brainstorming” i acknowledge this what i want is ideas to deal with this and your own ideas.

There is nothing to deal with. Arenanet has a business and design model in place. You are literally asking for people to brainstorm about something that will not happen or is not likely to happen at any point in time.

You could have just as well started a thread about tee and have people brainstorm via what crazy ways tee could be made. Actually that might have been more enjoyable than debating player restrictive game design decisions.

You want to brainstorm, here is my take on the ideas:

- it’s never a good idea to restrict player freedoms which were already in place
- less convenience or reduction in convenience are very tricky subjects and need to be dealt with very very carefully
- the entire wp and movement system is part of core tyrias design as well as connected to other aspects like world completion

Your ideas are basically taking a hammer to a glass window and smahing it when there was nothing wrong with it in the first place.

As Neural said, if you want to not waypoint, don’t waypoint but ride your mount instead. “Problem” solved.

Most points as to why there changes are bad were already pointed out and I wholeheartedly agree.

Here is the big one though which makes all of this nonsens, well nonsense:

“You’re assuming every player will have PoF and access to mounts, which will not be the case.”

That’s all that needs to be said to shoot down any of these rubbish ideas.

Ethan Mccloud.3218:

just to be clear- i’m looking for the perfect combo of armour , trinkets , and weapons . looking for 100 percent condition stats-
A token list will be fine.
Thank you in advance for the info –
ps- already seen metta and qt. I much perfer the minds of the GW players here .

You need to provide a game mode for the necro. There is no universal best set since wvw and pve will vastly differ. Same goes for raids versus fractals or open world (not that open world matters but still there are stats which are better suited to inexperienced players).

That said, if you don’t like the qt builds do expect to only be 2nd best or worse.

Norbe.7630:

Cyninja.2954:

someone who doesn’t understand GW2 active defence mechanics and just wants to facetank stuff. Enjoy dying for some more before either quitting the game or addapting.

its ok,
all i know is how damage works on PvP and WvW

i guess im talking to people who only played GW2 and doesnt understand whats the difference between stats, skills and items

cheers to anet for making the game too easy

You do realise the damage caluclation is the same for all 3 game modes right?

here, read this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage_calculation

Please just stop now. You are embarrassing yourself only more and more.

EDIT: also active denfences are just as important in wvw and pvp as in pve, more so even or you’d get steamrolled by the enemy zerg all the time.

EDIT 2: guess someone decided to delete their post.

Linken.6345:

Yea and thats why you start your own groups for fractals.
a T4 listing gets filled just as a 4 necro druid or meta pots food title and soda can pic group gets.

For raids well they are a diffrent beast entierly.

This.

The best and easiest way to run fractals is make your own group. That way you are not slave to other peoples demands.

That being said, as far as viability, T4 fractals have become so easy, any combination of classes can complete them. Meta comps just do it faster (warrior, chrono, tempest, +2) or safer (4 necro + druid) compared to most other comps. That’s the reason why people usually ask for certain classes. It’s far from vanilla fractals though where guardian was almost essential in a pug group to succeed.

Fractal Challenge modes (CM 99 and CM100) are a different thing, I doubt you were talking about those though.