Arenanet’s stance and comments on this type of request in the past have been:“Will never happen because technically to difficulty to implement.”
I don’t think this has changed so far. The problems they had when changing around the personal story was an indicator of how difficult and interwoven the original personal story and a character are.
That’s before even geting into any arguments for or against this kind of change.
tl;dr: never going to happen.
I’m quite sure arenanet are happy with Deceptive Evasion being in the dueling line.
They moved it from tier 2 to tier 3 a very long time back due to balance team wanting it to be less easy to reach. Putting it back in Domination which is a go-to trait line ever since the game launched would just increase the availability of DE.
Would having Deceptive Evasion in domination and Chronophantasm in Chronomancer be nice in current meta builds? Sure, but the illusion availability might be just a tad to much. We can already use most of our shatters on cd.
to be fair to the op…the tears should be not spawning when there is no one in the “demon realm”, they only keep spawning where players are.
it still can bug out and when u get there again you suddenly get attacked by 15+ tears.but on the other hand, this bug is rather rare, i do deimos / deimos cm on a daily basis and encountered that bug so far only 3 times or so, and that was when the wing came out and 1 time not too long ago.
this bug has nothing to do with a group or the op being bad.
same with invisible greens at cairn. but also here: this bug is rather rare, if you had it once, its just bad luck.
the only really annoying bug is at samarog…where the guy doesn’t explode and bug out when you cc him while he reached 0%hp and then keeps running arround / exploding on the group. but this is also something, where you have control over.
that samarog just resets…never heard of that.
True but the OP makes it sound as though these bugs were common occurances when they are very very seldom.
Seldom enough to not stop a raid working on those bosses to complete it.
Thus the assumption can be made that, especially concerning tears at Deimos, the raid team is not properly dealing with a mechanic. Then when to many tears are up a very seldom bug gets blamed.
Shattering depends a lot on different factors:
- are you running base mesmer or chronomancer?
- which of the different clone/phantasm generation traits are you using?
- do you have any traits which add aditional benefits for shattering?
- which weapon sets are you using?
- which distance are you fighting on, might some of your illusions have problems reaching or hitting the target?
- how much life does the target have (is it a normal enemy, veteran, elite or champion?)
Xstein gave a nice overview of our shatters but honestly, it would take pages to explain when to use what shatter for each unique situation and trait combination possible.
In short, for open world pve you can shatter once the phantasm has finished it’s attack. Most stuff will die to phantasm summon, autoattack damage and shatter (Mindwrack is your go to for damage here if power). On tougher enemies keep the phantasms up and resummon as need be.
New summoned clones/phantasms overwrite the oldest summon with following conditions:
- phantasms overwrite clones
- phantasms overwrite oldest summoned phantasm if no clones are out (meaning you have 3 phantasms out before summoning a 4th)
- clones will overwrite a phantasm if you have 3 phantasms out overwriting the oldest phantasm out (again if you have 3 phantasms out and summon a clone as 4th action)
- clones overwrite the oldest available clone out
- clones do not overwrite phantasms (unless the condition mentioned earlier is given)
That’s very vague as far as what you are aiming for.
What is your 2nd weapon set? Are you using sword as mainhand or sticking to scepter only?
Scepter usually gets used in condition builds but will work in power builds if need be (since we are lacking mainhand ranged weapons). The usual ranged weapons used though are greatsword or staff one of which is power (greatsword) and the other works for both.
Assuming you want to run scepter/shield + x, my first suggestion would be to go condition damage and take staff as 2nd weapon set.
You could also go power with scepter/shield + sword/x which would give you more versatility. Honestly though, power builds work best with sword/x and greatsword in the 2nd weapon slot for pve imo.
The go to mainhand weapon for most builds, at least in one weapon slot, is sword because it’s just that useful. I get though if you want to run some caster type mesmer, not sure how fun that makes the class.
Especially Deimos, wipe at 20% because over 15 tears shows up in the Demon Realm is really frustrating. Also Cairn green circles being invisible and Samarog doing a random reset out of nowhere…
Besides that I think Deimos mechanics are not fun to deal with, it’s just overwhelming, the fact that one guy is doing nothing is wrong to me, and the black goo is another thing to discuss because of how it works.
First off, yes wing 4 has some issues here and there especially in regard to how the difficulty of the fights is setup (when the first boss is harder than the 2nd and 3rd some better scaling can be called for).
Unfortunately you are litrerally complaining about mechanics and not bugs.
Tears – not an issue IF people actively pick them up. Yes I know, the general attitude is:“some one else will do that so why should I bother with running over and picking up a tear?” EVERYONE picks up tears, period!
If by doing nothing you are refering to the kiter, he has a way tougher job than all those dps standing in the center. It’s a mechanic, deal with it.
Black goo – get a dedicated kiter. Have people not sleep. Problem solved.
Deimos is not that hard of a fight, it’s just a fight with multiple more or less punishing succeed-or-fail mechanics where the entire raid is required to actively participate and pay attention. The actual mechanics are not that hard, just the fact that even 1 person who is asleep can fail the event for everyone.
I have to agree. Back in GW1 I used to love to spectate tournaments and occasionally even just my favorite guilds fighting it out in GvG.
Not sure how much ressources this feature would take to implement and for the state that spvp is in atm I doubt it would get much use there (the use it would get would be miles ahead in promoting the game mode) but I’d love to have this for pve content.
Many players don’t want to bother with having to hit up youtube or external video sources for educational purposes. This feature could go a long way in promoting some of the game modes that people might feel threatend in entering.
+1 from me.
EDIT: at least add this for spvp once there is some type of interesting gvg mode (if there ever is one).
No, you certainly did not understand what was being said. But I’m not surprised.
Then instead of getting defensive and insulting the people trying to help, next time word your question in a way that people understand what you are asking. When the first 2 people anserwing your thread both missunderstand the question, it very likely is due to bad wording and not 1 person missunderstanding.
Your original post leaves it quite unclear what exactly you are asking for.
You are talking about being able to disassemble items in your inventory which can lead people to believe that you want a similar function for the mystic forge (which is available via the mobile mystic nodes and conduits). You are in no way talking about the multi salvage function available. No where in your original post did you specifically ask for an option to multi use the mystic forge hence the very obvious confusion.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
When you optimize to the point where your doing 3-5 times more DPS needed, to reliably beat a encounter. Then yes, your cheesing (i.e overpowering the enemy with overwhelming damage).
Please stop thinking in extremes. Its not either nomads or zerker. There are a lot of choices in between. You can still clear content in “decent” time without meta builds. Everything else isn’t useless or extremely inefficient. Hyperbole and emotional responses, is not a good way to get a point across.
You interpret that as cheesing…I interpret it as the content is too relaxed on DPS requirements.
But you just proved his point, he is trying to say that meta is subjective between over dpsing and doing it a little different.
That impossible based on the definition of meta. Its like saying there is more than one “best”. Are other things viable and possible? Sure! But not meta.
That’s not what meta means. Meta is simply the understanding of the most popular builds.
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Metagame
From exactly the quoted wiki you linked after the first sentance:
Instead, the PvE meta represents the community’s best guesses as to the most efficient way of playing. In contrast to PvP, good PvE players do not have to read the PvE meta, although most mini-max practitioners believe it is foolish to use any but the most efficient tools.
- https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Metagame
So no, while many think meta stands for most popular builds, those builds and popularity of them is based on them being the most efficient (or believed to be most efficient).
If people want to argue celestial being meta, go and disprove the high ranking pve guilds that you can do better than them or that building more defensively far outways the benefits of pure damage builds.
Thank you, that exactly what I am trying to point out. The GW2 PvE Meta is “the broken and cheesy weapons which Fromsoftware keeps nerfing to keep the game balanced. Which get used by a majority of the playerbase to speedrun or finish the game as easy and fast as possible”. TL;DR Cheesing the game, to get the shinies. Instead of players looking up to challenge runners and wanting to get better (like in dark souls), players look up to the people with the best cheese.
The irony is as long as you understand the mechanics, you don’t need anywhere near meta DPS to win in this game. Having a fun challenge isn’t the goal of “meta” players, its about putting everything on farm. And that’s just sad.
Celestial (the title of this topic), has sufficient DPS and defense. In fact, the stat combination is so self-sufficient that you can hold your own not only in PvE but also in WvW and in the past PvP. It is a stat combination that works everywhere. How many stat combinations are effective in all game modes? You have “just” enough of everything to get the job done, no matter what the job is. I personally like mixing a few pieces of celestial in with zerk/vipers. Small decrease to my attack, for significant increase to defense.
That has to be one of the stupidest things I have read in a while.
So being efficient and optimising your build and gear is cheesing the game. You still haven’t understood that the comparison you make is not working. When I was talkiing about overpowered weapons in Dark Souls I was giving an example similar to what people do with builds and gear in MMOs. They optimise to get the best possible output.
You are effectively saying that being mediocre is the best approach while arguing that specialising and being the best possible at your role is bad. I’m not even sure how to counter argue that it’s so unbelievably stupid.
Celestial is jack-of-all and master of none pve wise, worse even it’s worse than jack-of-all since a mix of different attribute equipments would produce a better omni-role-set while removing all the useless stats celestial has…
Its interesting how people on GW2 define what is “useless” and what is “good”. In Dark Souls, the best players are those that have low dps (fist only), rely on nothing except understanding game mechanics, and do not rely on stats (naked). High dps means you don’t not need to know how to reliably counter every boss mechanic 100% of the time, those players specialize in cheesing and bursting down encounters. Low dps, means the boss fight drags out for long enough that you will be forced to experience every attack multiple times and your forced to actually learn them.
Absolute apples to oranges comparison.
First off, you are comparing gear choice in a Dark Souls game which speficially is chosen around making the game harder to show player skill. The aim here is to show how proficient the player is by using minimal advantage versus maximum risk. This is the absolute oposite of what meta actual means (“Most-Efficient-Tactical-Advantage”).
What you should be comparing meta to is the broken and cheesy weapons which Fromsoftware keeps nerfing to keep the game balanced. Which get used by a majority of the playerbase to speedrun or finish the game as easy and fast as possible.
No one is going to deny you the glory of calling you superp if you do a very tough or hard GW2 boss fight solo or with harsh selfimposed penalties. That’s not the aim of meta builds and builds in general though in this game (unless as mentioned selfimposed).
When designing a build for GW2 you try to optimise to gain the maximum benefit you can in order to overcome challanges with as minimum effort as possible, usually in order to gain as much loot as possible (something not done in Dark Souls).
This has less to do with playerskill and more with loot gain optimisation. Two completely different ideas endgame wise.
Celestial has more than enough DPS, to reliably beat all PvE content. The stat combination is extremely useful in all 3 game modes: PvP (before it was removed), WvW, and PvE. The stat combination, allows your character to be self-sufficient against all situations. Excellent stat for dueling, for roaming, for PvE, and in the past excellent stat for PvP. Meta builds on the other hand are one trick ponies, that optimize one main trait of the build. One small nerf, to their one trick and they fall from the meta.
We are talking pve here, no one denies that different stat combinations are useful for wvw or spvp due to the very nature of opponents you meet (human ones who can adapt and react differently).
Yes, meta builds are one-trick ponies being the best at what they do. In this case beat pve obsticles with the least amount of effort or the fastest amount of time. They literally provide you with a build for being the best at 1 thing (sometimes 2). Since most of the pve game though only has this 1 obstacle to overcome (beating the ai and boss patterns without dying) it’s the most efficient at doing so.
Deviation from this for easier use and play can be done by taking more defensive stats. They are simply NOT NEEDED if your player skill is high enough to not die. Yes, some boss fights actually get easier this way (Goreseval for example if you can skip his updraft phases with enough dps). It still means though you have to bring the minimum amount of player skill to abuse the dps advantage, which already is an obstacle for many players.
I’d go with neither. The final HoT story instance occurs concurrently with the DS meta. It wouldn’t make sense for the commander to be in two places.
You sure? I always thought the DS meta event played out before the twon final story missions.
The short cut npc was just implemented so that people playing the story were not bottlenecked by the event.
That NPC was always there.
You’re ahead of the pact during the story and it was confirmed during an AMA or something that they occurred at the same time.
I know the npc eas always there. It’s the same for all HoT maps and story missions which I assume was decided on during development to not gate story content behind meta events.
Always made more sense to me that we first killed mordremoths shell and then dealt with his mind.
Not only did the AMA confirm that the battle between us and Mordremoth in DS and in Hearts and Minds happen at the same time, Canach also says this in Hearts and Minds; “The dragon is focused on the battle outside. We’ll never get a better chance.”
As for the PC, you are the ‘leader’, your PC will see other adventurers as allied forces. So you are both the leader, and an allied force for other leaders. That’s how I see it anyway.
Good point. Never payed enough attention to that I guess. In that case we can assume:
- during story missions we are the pact commander with othet people being pact forces
- during open world events we are all pact forces
Makes the most sense.
What a thematic failure! Is it just me or does dagger makes much more sense for Mesmer? On launch I was shocked to see Mesmer wielding swords and great sword as opposed to daggers, but this is just to far (in the wrong direction). Daggers are associated with deception, and axes are associated with barbarity…which one sounds more like a Mesmer?
Not sure, I’ll get back to you once I see how it feels to have my clones and phantasms bash peoples heads in with an astralaria skin (which I have yet to make). XD
In all seriousness though, while I get the thematic trouble some might see, I always felt like mesmer was the confusing type of caster breaking all norms. Let them Elementalist and Necromancer pansies carry daggers, we’ll bash skulls in with sword and (hopefully soon) axe.
Unless the next elite spec is as broken as chrono was at HoT launch or core mesmer is redesigned, we will never get a true DPS spec. Its just not possible without one of those two things happening, because of how base mesmer is designed.
And yes, a spec that fundamentally alters the shatter and/or illusion mechanic would be equivalent to core mesmer being redesigned, as it would prove that Anet found it impossible to create a DPS spec for mesmer with its current design.
That’s why I keep pushing for mesmer to be redesigned, at least partially. The class just needs it
If you REALLY, REALLY feel the need to do dps on mesmer, you can always play condi mes, it pulls respectable numbers. Yes i know its not “optimal” and that other condi classes can do more, but it does enough to be viable, and its not like raids are all that hard if you’re playing with a competent group, im sure you can play some “off meta” stuff for fun and still clear it easily.
While I second that idea, there is another problem to deal with here, the lack of mesmers in general.
Sure you could ask a pug raid group to run condi dps mesmer and hope they don’t instant kick you after demanding you switch to support or tank, but why take the risk?
Static groups might allow you to roll condi mesmer now and there for the luls, if they have to many mesmers available. Usually though it’ll end with them telling you to stop goofing around and either plau support or log to a propet dps.
You’re mostly right, but it’s worth noting that I’d rather a condie mesmer than any other dps class at matthias. While on the other bosses condie mesmer ranges from usable-ish to trash, condie mesmer becomes the apex predator at matthias.
Yeah, Matthias makes bringing multiple mesmers even worthwhile. One of the cooler fights.
Count dps from alacrity and quicknes you provide to raid group and you are the best dps in raid. This is how you need to think now about mesmer.
Oh I absulutely agree.
That’s why I have 2 fully geared in multiple ascended items because sometimes changing gear and traits is just to much of a bother. It’s also the reason I love the class and main it as much as possible. The downside is though, I now seldomly get to play anything else in raids cause the usual respons is:“Good one m8, now go log on your mesmer.” XD
What is selfish is thinking everyone else has to play how you want to. Here is the thing though there are those of us who go off the meta just fine without anyone noticing because in multiple mmorpgs because we do very welll.
There is a difference between your over used snowflake word and someone using an effective build.
And as far as everyone else it is not a fact and I will continue to say this over and over.
Yes and I see 5k dps damage dealers every day running T4 fractals and don’t bothet to call then iut on their terrible dps. Why? Because I can’t be bothered to waste 30 minutes of my life getting a perfect group to run the fractal content slightly faster. Doesn’t change the fact that they are getting carried by the rest of the group and they’ll never know they are terrbile.
That snowflake world is a concept. You might disapprove of how this concept gets used and missused by players, it doesn’t change the validity of the actual concept though.
You stating that defensive stats being not needed is no fact when literally every single person in this thread has tried to explain to you how one of the most basic game mechanics of GW2 works, is like me stating:“The world is flat.” It’s just as untrue and some believers will just as much not listen to reason.
A build is bad if the person running it doesn’t know how to make it work properly or if they don’t know how to survive using it. But, that’s irrelevant — no one deliberately chooses to run a bad build (except maybe for Schlitz and Wiggles).
So it’s not possible to offer unsolicited generic advice about builds — you need to know the target audience and they need to be asking for advice or at least willing to listen.
I I am fine with people playing literally anything, as long as they meaningfully contribute.
Absolutely. I’d rephrase it as “I’m fine with people playing whatever they like, as long as they understand how to make it work in the context of our current task.”
This.
I think what most people do not understand is, meta builds should be viewed as guidlines. In a way they show what peak performance and optimisation can do.
If you decide to go off meta you will likely take a hit in best possible performance but might gain ease-of-use, more fun and/or different role options.
Now obviously this will vary greatly between what gets changed. If you change some traits or skills here and there the difference might be negligable or minor. If you start exchanging entire pieces of gear for other stats results will vary greatly.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.
Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.
Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.
I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.
You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.
Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.
No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.
How are we full of it when it’s proven that defensive stats are not needed?
Feel free to build however you like. Don’t come asking for advice though if you don’t want to accept the answers and suggestions given.
I will do as I please regardless of what you think I did not ask for advice I asked specifically about celestial gear, to say defensive skills have no use in pve is beyond silly, you can dodge in eso to but I never heard anyone say defensive stats equal relying on them as a crutch hahahaha.
No one ever suggested otherwise. You came seeking advice and how or if you use it is up to you.
Eventually you might realise though that you are talking with people who have tried and not only theorised about different stat combinations.
I personally have multiple full ascended sets on multiple characters ranging from celestial to knights to berserker to vipers to marauder and even full minstrel on multiple characters. Defensive stats unless used for tanking in raids or in wvw are not needed in pve. Thus they serve as crutch at best.
And I have played allot of mmorpgs and understand the meta mentality as well and many times the meta can be off about things as well, I really do not trust the meta attitude because my experience has proved to me I should not.
And this is the only game where ive heard people say defensive stats are used as a crutch, this is far from the only mmorpg where you have dodge mechanics.
Meta stands for “Most-Efficient-Tactical-Advantage”.
Defensive stats in GW2 are not needed for survival, this is a fact since enough people have shown that you can survive perfectly fine with 0 defensive stats in all pve content. This is not the case in most other MMOs.
This has nothing to do with mentality. It’s simple math and testing of different builds.
What you are refering to is peoples attitude when they are talking about meta, what I am talking about is the plain math and game design related to the term.
Now you go ahead and disagree and go off building your soldiers or knights or whatever gear with defensive stats you desire. If you stay long enough with the game though you will end up exactly where everyone else is, running a full damage build in pve.
If it was simple math then this concept would exist in those other mmorpgs with dodge mechanics, because nearly the same all type of stats exist in those other mmorpgs as well. Again this is more then likely a mentality thing then a fact.
And not everyone wants to be squishy and not it has nothing to do with a safety net it has something to do with playstyle another reason is you do not want to rely on your teammates if something goes go bad, when your down in a fight that is still a dps loss.
Defensive stats are NOT needed in pve. That is a fact.
How well builds perform damage wise is up to debate and testing yes.
No it is not fact it is YOUR opinion.
Except that it is a fact because not only have I cleared all pve content in 0 defensive stat gear multiple times. So have thousands upon thousands others and so do people running raids every single week which is arguably the most challenging content in this gane at this time.
That alone makes it a fact and not an opinion.
To everyone else in this thread it just shows that you have no understanding of the concept of what meta actually means.
But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.
Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.
Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.
I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.
You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.
Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.
No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.
How are we full of it when it’s proven that defensive stats are not needed?
Feel free to build however you like. Don’t come asking for advice though if you don’t want to accept the answers and suggestions given.
I will do as I please regardless of what you think I did not ask for advice I asked specifically about celestial gear, to say defensive skills have no use in pve is beyond silly, you can dodge in eso to but I never heard anyone say defensive stats equal relying on them as a crutch hahahaha.
No one ever suggested otherwise. You came seeking advice and how or if you use it is up to you.
Eventually you might realise though that you are talking with people who have tried and not only theorised about different stat combinations.
I personally have multiple full ascended sets on multiple characters ranging from celestial to knights to berserker to vipers to marauder and even full minstrel on multiple characters. Defensive stats unless used for tanking in raids or in wvw are not needed in pve. Thus they serve as crutch at best.
And I have played allot of mmorpgs and understand the meta mentality as well and many times the meta can be off about things as well, I really do not trust the meta attitude because my experience has proved to me I should not.
And this is the only game where ive heard people say defensive stats are used as a crutch, this is far from the only mmorpg where you have dodge mechanics.
Meta stands for “Most-Efficient-Tactical-Advantage”.
Defensive stats in GW2 are not needed for survival, this is a fact since enough people have shown that you can survive perfectly fine with 0 defensive stats in all pve content. This is not the case in most other MMOs.
This has nothing to do with mentality. It’s simple math and testing of different builds.
What you are refering to is peoples attitude when they are talking about meta, what I am talking about is the plain math and game design related to the term.
Now you go ahead and disagree and go off building your soldiers or knights or whatever gear with defensive stats you desire. If you stay long enough with the game though you will end up exactly where everyone else is, running a full damage build in pve.
If it was simple math then this concept would exist in those other mmorpgs with dodge mechanics, because nearly the same all type of stats exist in those other mmorpgs as well. Again this is more then likely a mentality thing then a fact.
And not everyone wants to be squishy and not it has nothing to do with a safety net it has something to do with playstyle another reason is you do not want to rely on your teammates if something goes go bad, when your down in a fight that is still a dps loss.
Defensive stats are NOT needed in pve. That is a fact.
How well builds perform damage wise is up to debate and testing yes.
But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.
Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.
Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.
I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.
You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.
Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.
No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.
How are we full of it when it’s proven that defensive stats are not needed?
Feel free to build however you like. Don’t come asking for advice though if you don’t want to accept the answers and suggestions given.
I will do as I please regardless of what you think I did not ask for advice I asked specifically about celestial gear, to say defensive skills have no use in pve is beyond silly, you can dodge in eso to but I never heard anyone say defensive stats equal relying on them as a crutch hahahaha.
No one ever suggested otherwise. You came seeking advice and how or if you use it is up to you.
Eventually you might realise though that you are talking with people who have tried and not only theorised about different stat combinations.
I personally have multiple full ascended sets on multiple characters ranging from celestial to knights to berserker to vipers to marauder and even full minstrel on multiple characters. Defensive stats unless used for tanking in raids or in wvw are not needed in pve. Thus they serve as crutch at best.
And I have played allot of mmorpgs and understand the meta mentality as well and many times the meta can be off about things as well, I really do not trust the meta attitude because my experience has proved to me I should not.
And this is the only game where ive heard people say defensive stats are used as a crutch, this is far from the only mmorpg where you have dodge mechanics.
Meta stands for “Most-Efficient-Tactical-Advantage”.
Defensive stats in GW2 are not needed for survival, this is a fact since enough people have shown that you can survive perfectly fine with 0 defensive stats in all pve content. This is not the case in most other MMOs.
This has nothing to do with mentality. It’s simple math and testing of different builds.
What you are refering to is peoples attitude when they are talking about meta, what I am talking about is the plain math and game design related to the term.
Now you go ahead and disagree and go off building your soldiers or knights or whatever gear with defensive stats you desire. If you stay long enough with the game though you will end up exactly where everyone else is, running a full damage build in pve.
I’d go with neither. The final HoT story instance occurs concurrently with the DS meta. It wouldn’t make sense for the commander to be in two places.
You sure? I always thought the DS meta event played out before the twon final story missions.
The short cut npc was just implemented so that people playing the story were not bottlenecked by the event.
That NPC was always there.
You’re ahead of the pact during the story and it was confirmed during an AMA or something that they occurred at the same time.
I know the npc eas always there. It’s the same for all HoT maps and story missions which I assume was decided on during development to not gate story content behind meta events.
Always made more sense to me that we first killed mordremoths shell and then dealt with his mind.
But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.
Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.
Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.
I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.
You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.
Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.
No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.
How are we full of it when it’s proven that defensive stats are not needed?
Feel free to build however you like. Don’t come asking for advice though if you don’t want to accept the answers and suggestions given.
I will do as I please regardless of what you think I did not ask for advice I asked specifically about celestial gear, to say defensive skills have no use in pve is beyond silly, you can dodge in eso to but I never heard anyone say defensive stats equal relying on them as a crutch hahahaha.
No one ever suggested otherwise. You came seeking advice and how or if you use it is up to you.
Eventually you might realise though that you are talking with people who have tried and not only theorised about different stat combinations.
I personally have multiple full ascended sets on multiple characters ranging from celestial to knights to berserker to vipers to marauder and even full minstrel on multiple characters. Defensive stats unless used for tanking in raids or in wvw are not needed in pve. Thus they serve as crutch at best.
But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.
Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.
Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.
I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.
You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.
Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.
No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.
How are we full of it when it’s proven that defensive stats are not needed?
Feel free to build however you like. Don’t come asking for advice though if you don’t want to accept the answers and suggestions given.
I’d go with neither. The final HoT story instance occurs concurrently with the DS meta. It wouldn’t make sense for the commander to be in two places.
You sure? I always thought the DS meta event played out before the two final story missions.
The short cut npc was just implemented so that people playing the story were not bottlenecked by the event.
The way I see it is we are all members of the packt but when we switch over to the story missions the main character (or initiator of the mission) takes over as pact commander.
But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.
Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.
Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.
I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.
You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.
Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.
Unless the next elite spec is as broken as chrono was at HoT launch or core mesmer is redesigned, we will never get a true DPS spec. Its just not possible without one of those two things happening, because of how base mesmer is designed.
And yes, a spec that fundamentally alters the shatter and/or illusion mechanic would be equivalent to core mesmer being redesigned, as it would prove that Anet found it impossible to create a DPS spec for mesmer with its current design.
That’s why I keep pushing for mesmer to be redesigned, at least partially. The class just needs it
If you REALLY, REALLY feel the need to do dps on mesmer, you can always play condi mes, it pulls respectable numbers. Yes i know its not “optimal” and that other condi classes can do more, but it does enough to be viable, and its not like raids are all that hard if you’re playing with a competent group, im sure you can play some “off meta” stuff for fun and still clear it easily.
While I second that idea, there is another problem to deal with here, the lack of mesmers in general.
Sure you could ask a pug raid group to run condi dps mesmer and hope they don’t instant kick you after demanding you switch to support or tank, but why take the risk?
Static groups might allow you to roll condi mesmer now and there for the luls, if they have to many mesmers available. Usually though it’ll end with them telling you to stop goofing around and either plau support or log to a propet dps.
As far as the next expansion all I hope for is mesmer to stay relevant. I don’t care if as dps or support. I’d be fine with a mediocre dps build as long as we remain a desired support class (chrono is very strong). If they nerf chrono or buff other classes to outperform us support wise they would really have to make our 2nd elite spec broken as hell for mesmer to pull high dps numbers.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
1. Applies to any build and yes, some dps numbers will be easier to achieve on certain builds than others.
2. Again more of an issue of learn to play than the actual build.
3. True some builds will scale better with boons and buffs from other classes.
I get you want to vent, but who are your suggestions aimed at?
The non-meta player,
- who struggles in group content,
- who has enough knowledge to make their own build,
- yet lacks the desire to in any way test their build,
- but still runs a dps meter?
Seems very niche to me.
As far as fractal groups, I highly doubt most people run meta builds from the dps I’ve seen. From 5k dps necromancers in T4 to similar results on other classes I doubt many people take T4 seriously enough to bother.
Mesmer doesn’t feel very weak to me in open world. Running a berserker chronomancer GS/ SW+SH things seem to die quickly, and I am 99% immune to all damage for almost zero effort. I played through HoT story quest with a minion-necromancer and it didn’t feel particularly better to me.
Subjective feeling vs actual data: http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/
Mesmer is due to its mechanical limitations by far the last class dps wise.
Now some might argue, well those are endgame maximised benchmarks on 1 target. To which I would respond:“Yes they are, now please tell mich which other class in this game loses as much dps as mesmer when switching targets?”
Answer: none.
Meaning the class is off far worse when switching targets or fighting multiple low life opponents than even the benchmark shows.
While I won’t say that mesmer direct damage are sky high, you quote a player that specifically say “open world” and show the qT benchmark which have absolutely no direct dps build (exept condi) for the mesmer.
It’s sure that the damage won’t be impressive if half your traits and utilities are for support. This benchmark is subjective and not objective, it suppose that you will support or tank not that you will be taken as a DD. And this is totally understandable since this guild’s target is the optimum group comp.
You do understand though that IF there were a decent direct damage build it would be listed as well though right?
The condition damage build of mesmer beats even full direct damage builds and barely makes 25k. That’s on a permanent target where loss of phantasms and clones is greatly reduced since they have their full rotation and usefullness. It’s competing with suboptimal and basically goof builds of other classes.
TC was asking about using mesmer as a main which for me means all game modes, not only open world.
I have clearly stated that I myself main mesmer. I will still go out of my way to warn new players simply because mesmer is the last of all classes in any type of sustained damage which can greatly alter the game experience. The fact that some others have refered to mesmer damage being good is plain wrong.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
Mesmer doesn’t feel very weak to me in open world. Running a berserker chronomancer GS/ SW+SH things seem to die quickly, and I am 99% immune to all damage for almost zero effort. I played through HoT story quest with a minion-necromancer and it didn’t feel particularly better to me.
Subjective feeling vs actual data: http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/
Mesmer is due to its mechanical limitations by far the last class dps wise.
Now some might argue, well those are endgame maximised benchmarks on 1 target. To which I would respond:“Yes they are, now please tell mich which other class in this game loses as much dps as mesmer when switching targets?”
Answer: none.
Meaning the class is off far worse when switching targets or fighting multiple low life opponents than even the benchmark shows.
For casual stuff like open world, feel free to use celestial gear. Nobody’s gonna care and you may end up doing MORE work than people using berserker gear, because they usually fail to dodge and hug the floor 99% of the time. But keep in mind celestial’s (and other hybrid gear) performance in endgame content with coordinated groups will be EXTREMELY subpar and you’ll likely be kicked from most groups.
This.
Very nice explanation.
The fact that celestial gear is missing crucial stats like boon duration and condition duration only hurts it even more besides the direct loss of stats compared to specific sets.
Fay’s explanation was also correct. Celestial doesn’t allow you to run multiple builds (where builds actually matter) but it allows you to run multiple builds very poorly.
I think mesmer is the best solo class. Will take you longer to kill things, but I had no issue soloing every hero point in HoT using a berserker build with Sword/sword and sword/shield. lots of survivablility and clones to distract mobs. Big events with lots of mobs to attack will suck. But aside from that, mesmer is the most fun class in the game imo.
Yes except that any necromancer or ranger will do the same in 1/3 of the time while prssing 1 or 2 buttons.
Honestly, mesmer is my main and I love the class but let’s keep things in perspective. The class is no where near what some other classes can do. It’s a jack-of-all kind of thing.
That being said, if you enjoy the class go for it. Me, I have enough full ascended other classes I switch to when I don’t feel like wasting 30 minutes on stuff other classes get done in 10.
Decision on which class to main depends on many factors, not just which is the most efficient class in fast killing. Besides Hot boy ackowledged the fact that it might take longer to killl some stuff. I imagine OP is asking experienced mesmers how the class feels overall for different aspect of the game.
I’d say I haven’t encountered a single aspect of the game where I wouldn’t enjoy playing mesmer or that I would feel like I’m useless.
If you enjoy the class, then it’s definetly worth to be your main.
True and I did state that mesmer is my main too.
I was answering TCs direct question about mesmers low damage and pointed out that mesmer was not a weak class damage wise, it’s the weakest out of all classes.
I think it’s quite important to point this out to new players since the difference between maining a mesmer and just about any other class in this game especially when it’s your first character can be a vastly different experience.
First off, it can be normal to feel exhausted after the first legendary journey. It takes quite a while and expectations build as well as many anoyances get pushed aside.
Now on to your class. I would ‘t worry to much. Maybe give thief a break or do some serious research into current spvp/wvw/pve builds. Don’t stress yourself with not being amazing at certain parts of the game. No one is yntil they get some serious practice under their belt.
On to dagger usefulness. Off the top of my head I k ow that necro and elementalost use daggers in meta builds. Necro is a god at wvw roaming and elementalist is still a very useful class in pve. Worst case you could use the legendary on one of these and get good use out of it.
Finally the legendary itsself, I always though incinerator was one of the cooler looking season 1 legendarys. The fact that thief could double wield the skin was just an awesome bonus in my eyes.
Will we ever going to see Gear Progression?
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Cyninja.2954
It just occurred to me that the infinite mists potions could be considered a form of “grind to trivialize content”, as the full set of three costs 18,000 relics. But they aren’t the only way to get those powerful buffs – the 1-hour large potions give the same for fairly cheap, and a full set of THOSE can be acquired for free by doing the 3 daily recommended fractals.
The infinite potions (and especially the omni version) are more incentives for people who have been living in fractals ever since they were added (like myself) since frelics are quite useless otherwise (most my characters are decked out in 20 slot bags of different colors. Multiple ascended backpieces from fractals etc.).
It’s quite clear that the idea is for newer players and less frequent fractal players to use the cheaper potions for the necessary buffs.
I wouldn’t really call it grind, more of an expensive option for people to burn frelics on.
From this moment on, this change should be brought up every time somebody tries to defend the balance team.
Defend them? I think most mesmers have moved on to not say anything in fear of fix/changes which would make things worse. We are way past the stage of even defending.
These recent changes do not get my hopes up about the mirage specialisation. Who knows, chrono turned out quite unique. Maybe not all is lost…
Not home for the next couple of days so all I get to do is enjoy how arenanet decides to implement changes wgich potentially increase mesmer burst which never was an issue.
Meanwhile we can expect some nerfs in the next few weeks once people decide that our burst is to high.
Sustained damage problems of mesmers fixed = none.
Also lol at might on phantasms.
It’s worth doing that full line just to unlock auto loot (Advanced Logistics).
This.
I’d go as far as saying auto loot makes the entite pact mastery line the first mastery one should max for Tyria. Yes it’s that good.
Legendary light armor looks like heavy armor
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Cyninja.2954
I really believe the legendary sets should have been cultural armor, specific to each race. They had more than enough time to make one for each race. It’s been over 2 years.
Yet they clearly said the process of making the legendary armors was more time consuming than they had expected and far more complex.
Now while I’m sure arenanet would deliberately sabotage their own game by providing only 1 legendary armor look per weight, until you actually show this to be the case your belive does not hold a lot of meaning compared to the official statement now does it?
You’re not the jury, and this isn’t court. This isn’t a Hot Boy vs Anet lawsuit. There is nothing I have to prove because I have to gain from this. The armors are already in game and they’re not making any more.
Creating the technology for the armor was costly and took time sure. But the design of the armor most likely was just small fraction of the total time. I know you’re probably someone who likes to sympathize with developers when they make bad game design decisions, or maybe you’re someone that just likes to argue any point, but this armor is a disappointment.
I am not sympathizing with the developer. I was simply calling you out on your nonsense that arenanet had enough time when they officially stated that they did not.
Why? Because having know it all armchair developers criticising other peoples work without any knowledge or experience in the field can be quite frustrating.
You are correct though, you have no need to prove anything. Then again, on the internet people can claim whatever they want which doesn’t necessarily make it right. Just like your unqualified opinion that arenanet had enough time versus an official statement.
I suspect that, if such an article existed, it was pure conjecture/rumor.
Masteries fill this role – and I would much rather see them expand upon and improve that system rather than add any kind of power or level based progression to the game in any way.
It would be the ultimate deviation from what GW2 is now and was at launch – and would probably be enough to push a lot of people away from the game.
While I love disagreeing with Blaeys, he is spot on with this assessment.
The penalty box was designed to avoid ressing make it so everyone gets one shot at the boss, increasing the need to “not slack”.
Although one can argue which is better, permanent grey-scale or looking down upon a fight, in both cases, you can’t participate after death
This.
I will agree that the penalty box was and is unintuitive since this is the only place it ever gets used and people are not used to others not being able to ressurect them in story missions.
That being said, as others mentioned the alternativ would have been you stay dead with a gray screen for the entire fight or arenanet allows for dying and ressurecting over and over which takes from the meaning of the fight.
Royal Terrace in DR.
This.
It’s not that I do not enjoy a stroll amongst the peasantry, I do. Sometimes though one just needs to retreat and take a break amongst like minded nobility.
If work requires it (dailies) short visits to my private lab in Rata Sum, a short stopover at my summer garden in the grove or a nostalgic stroll amongst my families former charr slavedens in the Black citadel might be in order.
Oh how the world hath changed. Stupid smelly cats.
Will we ever going to see Gear Progression?
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Cyninja.2954
So yea, to some extend, it’s only 5-10%, but 5% on 13 bosses can mean a delay of an entire wing.
OR you’re being slower because of the player and not the gear he’s using? Most pugs are’t top of their class. Plus you might be using some tactics specific to your group which aren’t widely known (like we do in my static). Attributing to the delay based on lacking gear seems to be the least likely, by a wide margin.
This.
I run in 3 different raids per week (different groups, not days. Days it comes down to 4-5).
Group A – static group. Full clear all 4 wings in 2 1/2 hours. Sometimes if people are unfocused we might miss Xera or Deimos since our cutoff time is very precisely 22:30 (we start very punctual at 19:50 meeting and 20:00 start. We are german after all).
Group B – same raiding (as Group A) guild B team with 3-5 players from the A team helping out. We clear 3 wings easy but are quite a way from full clear in the same time period.
Group C – different guild (not primary raid focused) mostly static with 1-3 guild member pugs who do not know tactics, are new or wanted to tag along. We try to start on time but usually are a bit late (15-45 minutes) depending on when we are full. We clear 2 wings easy (1 and 4, haven’t finished wing 3 and not started wing 2). Again about 2 1/2 hours of raiding.
All the people in these groups are full ascended on their mains and at minimum full ascended with exotic armor on side characters. Combine this with the fact that super pro players have cleared entire raid wings in rare and masterwork items. The difference from ascended to exotic means diddly squat.
Tl;dr: it’s not the gear, it’s the players.
EDIT: and before any one gets any ideas, I enjoy every single one of the raids and people in them. Why else would I be running multiple bosses per week?
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
Legendary light armor looks like heavy armor
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Cyninja.2954
I really believe the legendary sets should have been cultural armor, specific to each race. They had more than enough time to make one for each race. It’s been over 2 years.
Yet they clearly said the process of making the legendary armors was more time consuming than they had expected and far more complex.
Now while I’m sure arenanet would deliberately sabotage their own game by providing only 1 legendary armor look per weight, until you actually show this to be the case your belive does not hold a lot of meaning compared to the official statement now does it?
No, all your points are only true if you think that 2-3 seconds out of quickness is worse than horrible cc, which is not the case. If your rotation leaves you out of quickness for longer than that every full circle, timewarp won’t save you anyway. The problem here is that people make it sound like moa/gw is used in rare cases and TW is meta, but it’s actually the other way around. There are very (VERY) few situations were TW is the better choice even if your rotation is suboptimal. [Unless we are talking about open world, but peopleplay what ever they want here anyway.)
13 raid bosses,
4 of which have 0 break bars,
3-4 of which have very unimportant break bars ,
essentially leaving 5-6 raid bosses for which Moa is a guaranteed use.6 bosses out of 13 is hardly a majority worth saying that Moa is the go to elite. Also until you show me a screenshot for some of those fights where you and your entire party are at 90%+ quickness I’m not even going to bother to argue with you.
TW is always a better choise in 4 fights where there is no breakbars and a solid option on 3-4 other fights. That alone makes your entire argument unvalid.
The OP also included fractals, which makes time warp almost irrelevant. And with 100% I mean 100% in neccessary situations. No one cares if a magi druid that goes green has 100% quickness uptime or not.
Then why are you quoting me when my entire very detailed respons dealt with actually important fights? Fractals are irrelevant since the breakbars there seldomly require more than a shield 5 combined with an F3 if even that.
You’ve also only now swung over to conveniently include fractals (and to be honest, no one cared in this thread because they are such hilariously easy content) when your earlier responses were aimed at raids.
Even in fractals though my recommendation of:
Moa is needed if:
A. Your team sucks (in which case I’d take GW in fractals over Moa)
B. the breakbar is big (which it’s not in fractals)
C. the breakbar is important (which again it’s not in fractals)
holds true.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
No, all your points are only true if you think that 2-3 seconds out of quickness is worse than horrible cc, which is not the case. If your rotation leaves you out of quickness for longer than that every full circle, timewarp won’t save you anyway. The problem here is that people make it sound like moa/gw is used in rare cases and TW is meta, but it’s actually the other way around. There are very (VERY) few situations were TW is the better choice even if your rotation is suboptimal. [Unless we are talking about open world, but peopleplay what ever they want here anyway.)
13 raid bosses,
4 of which have 0 break bars,
3-4 of which have very unimportant break bars ,
essentially leaving 5-6 raid bosses for which Moa is a guaranteed use.
6 bosses out of 13 is hardly a majority worth saying that Moa is the go to elite. Also until you show me a screenshot for some of those fights where you and your entire party are at 90%+ quickness I’m not even going to bother to argue with you.
TW is always a better choise in 4 fights where there is no breakbars and a solid option on 3-4 other fights. That alone makes your entire argument unvalid.
Hello my fellow players,
I would like to suggest a possibility, how to make Eternity actually relevant legendary again.
You haven’t established that it’s irrelevant yet. It’s hard to go from there when your basic premise is missing.
Just because you might feel some way about an item does not equate every one elses feels the same way.
I think mesmer is the best solo class. Will take you longer to kill things, but I had no issue soloing every hero point in HoT using a berserker build with Sword/sword and sword/shield. lots of survivablility and clones to distract mobs. Big events with lots of mobs to attack will suck. But aside from that, mesmer is the most fun class in the game imo.
Yes except that any necromancer or ranger will do the same in 1/3 of the time while prssing 1 or 2 buttons.
Honestly, mesmer is my main and I love the class but let’s keep things in perspective. The class is no where near what some other classes can do. It’s a jack-of-all kind of thing.
That being said, if you enjoy the class go for it. Me, I have enough full ascended other classes I switch to when I don’t feel like wasting 30 minutes on stuff other classes get done in 10.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystalline_Ore
My guess is you wanted to say you found DS deserted. There is 2 things you can do:
- look for some stray noxious pods in an empty map (there often are 3-6)
- wait until the DS meta resets and join an active DS map and join which nets about 50-55 pods if you go for all of them. Use GW2 event timers or some similar timer to know when to join via lfg https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Event_timers
And when there’s nothing with what I need in the LFG? Lol, what then? I shouldn’t be punished just because Anet is leaving HoT zones to die.
Besides the alpha I’m having a hard time remebering which mastery points are so far away from events or meta events which require groups.
Yes the HoT maps require more people but this is solved as I had mentioned by people running all the maps regularly (the maps reset ever 2 hours). Your argument that the maps are dead is moot.
There are tons that I simply can’t get because HoT maps are DEAD. There’s no one doing the events. How the heck am I supposed to get event-related masteries?
Use the lfg feature. Especially now most maps see activity for metas and right after for events to unlock Provisioner merchants.
If you enter a HoT map and hope for the best, you are doing it wrong because every one else actively gathers in full maps.
No. The amount of pvp MMOs that are popular and successful is minimal. The amount of those which have successful fun open world pvp is even smaller.
If you want to run around ganking lowlevel or less geared players, play a different MMO. If you want an somewhat even olaying field, play spvp. If you want scale, play wvw.
As far as immersion, I think most other comments have already touched on how ridiculous this argument is with context of open world pvp.