[Comprehensive guide] [Tpvp] Power Necro: People think they suck.. Im here to prove you wrong... *Wall of Txt*
in Necromancer
Posted by: Daays.4317
(edited by Daays.4317)
There are plenty of things to do.
The stun on PW isn’t instant, and if a S/P thief is on you, you should know what’s coming.
A ele can mist form/blink/frost armor & dodge/blind
A warrior can shield block, stability, knockdown
A ranger can use protect me, ult, or use dodge skills on the sword/Shb
A necro can death shroud
A guardian can stability, blind, teleport to a nearby target
A engineer will auto gain protection, elixir S, block (if using shield), blind (if using pistol), knockback/down
A mesmer can teleport, invis, distortion, daze
Plenty of ways to counter. Plenty of ways for thieves to bait, as you can haste during PW and not interrupt the ability. Unlike warrior who has to Frenzy before HB.
That just furthers my point about imbalance. There’s how many Agility heroes in DOTA? Yet you always see the same ones at the high-end tournies. Morph/Lone Druid/Anti Mage/Naga.
Everyone does flock to the same professions. The amount of classes really doesn’t matter. You act like mirror matches aren’t fun to watch. If anything, wouldn’t a mirror match show who the truly better team is? There’s no “omg your class is so broken” excuse.
I know watching/playing RMP mirrors in WoW was entertaining and every single high level RMP played differently.
But I agree with the last part. That you should be limited to 1 type of class per team to prevent stacking.
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You think balance makes a game an e-Sport?
DOTA2 isn’t balanced. Sit down and compare heroes side by side. How does Crystal Maiden compare to a Shadow Demon? A Riki compared to Morph or Lone Druid? At the International 2 you saw the same heroes every single game. Morph, LD, SD, DK, Enigma, etc. Balance means little when you have the ability to play those “broken” heroes and use them against your opponents
So what if Guardians/Mesmers are the best classes in the game? It’s not like playing a mirror match is boring. Those classes are very fun to play and you can do so much with them. That is never boring. Both sides can use them and both sides will play differently.
Player base, sponsors, spectators make an e-Sport. They won’t ever live without being able to generate revenue. And the only way to do that is to have a large enough community to broadcast to and make money off marketing.
DOTA2 has an amazing spectator mode. Stats everywhere for players to follow, chase cams, free movement, instant movement, etc. It’s amazing. Combined with the support of Valve, it will become a staple in the upcoming year at events.
Until GW2 has a working spectator mode, the game will never become an e-sport. Balance is one of the last things needed to be successful, especially in a game where everyone can play the most powerful classes.
My advice is to play CS:GO while you wait.
Fact? Where are these facts? Post them please. Links. Guides. Videos explaining how to dodge a hasted HS spam thief.
If not, then they’re just your opinion. I’m sorry that in your opinion HS spam was perfectly fine. It was quite clear that the majority of this game felt otherwise.
Fact is that a HS spamming thief could do the same or higher damage than other classes by simply spamming the “2” ability, while other classes required much more setup.
It is clear you’re an upset Thief player by the way you’re defending the HS change.
And unbiased view? That’s laughable considering I multi-class all 8 classes.
HS spam was dumb.
Retaliation is dumb.
The amount of control abilties compared to stability is dumb.
Mesmers portal treb repair is dumb.
There are lots of dumb and broken things in the game that need tuning. You don’t need months and months and months of game play to understand this.
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Because you can’t just look at that and go
“Man, why did we make an execute ability do as much damage as other abilities above 25% HP? Why did we give it a gap closer while others don’t have that? Why did we make it cost 50% less initiative compared to the other abilities?”
Nope. You need at least 2 years of game play to understand the intricacies of Heart Seeker spam.
So you should wait around for 2 months until buffing the other classes?
Do you not read anything?
Mesmers/Thieves/Guardians are required because those classes have the greatest toolsets available to be successful.
All the other classes don’t. Whether it be movement abilities, defensive abilities, or control abilities, most classes lack them in one way or the other.
You’re in such a defensive situation. It’s quite clear you play one of those 3 classes only and can’t multi class. And now you’re afraid that one might get nerfed.
I play every class well. I want nothing more than this game to be about picking up good players and playing. And that can’t happen as long as Mesmers/Thieves/Guardians remain the best classes with the best toolsets available.
And just FYI, FOTM exists because those classes can achieve what the others can with minimal effort. There’s a reason why people cried about HS spam and not Ele’s. Because one requires lots of setup and skill, while the other presses “2”.
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And why do you think you’re getting rolled? It’s because the Mesmer has the greatest tool sets out of any classes to successfuly 1v1.
1v1 is about control and damage avoidance. No one does that better than a Mesmer because the other classes don’t have the toolset to compete.
It’s not about player skill, because at the top everyone is the same. It’s about toolsets and decision making. It’s the unfortunate design problem you run into when making multiple different classes.
Evolve into what?
What class can out 1v1 a Mesmer? What class can leave a node and teleport back to the point instantly?
Same for Thief/Guardian in their roles.
Your only room right now for deviation is with the Ele/Engineer.
Shukran if all classes were the same, then I’d agree. But they’re not.
Just take a look at Necro and compare it to a Mesmer. Do you think they’re even on the same tier?
the worst balancing in any pvp game, especially one that wants to be competitive, is to balance before the meta matures, anyone who wants a truly competitive game knows that
Who is a better point defense and delayer than a Mesmer, while being able to dish out damage. I feel completely confident 1v1’ing and 1v’2ing until backup arrives. Engineer is the only class that comes to mind.
Who is a better mid group support than guardian. Tons of control with knockbacks. Group protection. Group stabiliy. Group retal. Full team heal.
Who is a better roamer than a thief that can teleport and run at 25% movespeed ontop of doing high burst damage. Then again, you’ll want 3 roamers, so bring an ele and another class.
Want the meta?
Ele/Engi/Thief/Mes/Guard
Tons of control
Tons of mobility
Tons of survivability
Tons of burst
Use AoE to kill phantasms? Unless you’re an Ele you’re going to take retal damage from each one.
Let’s say you kill 2 that require 4 hits each to take out (most whirl aoe abilities hit 4 times). 300 damage retal. You just did 2400 damage to yourself for killing their phantasms…which will come back out in 12 seconds. Considering that they typically hit for 3k, I’d say killing them is a waste of time.
Heaven forbid your whirl hits 3 or 4 illusions total. Then you’re really screwed.
No you’re better off sticking to the Mesmer and trying to dodge the attacks/shatters.
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They don’t need nerfing’s really.
Think of a game.
You can only move along the X-axis.
Someone else can move along the X-axis and Y-axis.
Someone esle can move along the X-axis, Y-axis, and Z-axis.
Nerfing everyone down to the first option results in a boring game.
The holy trinity are the classes that have free reign. Limiting factors are what you make of them. The other classse are stuck in the first or 2nd option, which is why you see complaints.
The classes that can get away with the most minimal of effort while resulting in success are typically complained about.
If class A has to use abilities 1-5 on two different skills bars to get a kill
While class B has to use abilitiy 1, people will complain.
Now at higher level of play, people are required to do more. But the general population isn’t there. They just know that they died to a thief spamming haste + PW/HS.
Armor right now is not a good stat because you gain it at the exact same rate as Vitality.
My necro has 19k hp. I can use a high armor amulet and get about 30% damage reduction. Which means a pure physical damage class will have to do about 24,700 damage to kill me.
The other option is to use a high vitality trinket, which puts my hp at ~25,000.
But armor doesn’t provide a buffer to condition damage. Therefore you have two options, both giving you the exact same effective health, with one option not providing any benefit against conditions.
Dota 2 International changed that.
LoL had 125k viewers for their big event.
Dota 2 had over 500k.
Dota 2 will push LoL out of the MOBA scene in the coming years, but only if tournies want to have one MOBA game at events.
But once again, not the point. Waiting for an explaination on how punishing players for playing the game is a good game design choice.
No they need to be removed.
Passive damage reflect have no business in any competitive game. They ruin it.Every MOBA item with reflect damage says hi.
Spectre damage reflect is only useful once she is tanky. Which requires items. She is very weak early on and her reflect isn’t strong until late game.
Blademail is great against carries. Then again it’s not passive.
LoL Thornmail is 30% damage reflect passively though.
Quoting LoL makes your argument invalid.
So let’s stick to the subject.
Retal isn’t an active damage reflect in the sense that it reflects 80% incoming damage for a brief period. It’s a passive one.
Which means if you don’t attack, you die.
If you do attack, you die faster.
Why do you think this is good game design.
BTW the off-hand axe ability 5 for a warrior will do ~4.5k damage in 15 hits.
300 damage reflect means I took 4.5k damage.
You did nothing and did as much damage as the warrior. How is this balanced? How is this good game design?
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No they need to be removed.
Passive damage reflect have no business in any competitive game. They ruin it.Every MOBA item with reflect damage says hi.
Spectre damage reflect is only useful once she is tanky. Which requires items. She is very weak early on and her reflect isn’t strong until late game.
Blademail is great against carries. Then again it’s not passive.
You know what you should know this since you quoted MOBA’s, that most of them moved away from passive reflect (don’t know about LoL because I don’t play it) because it’s not a fun type of game play. Killing yourself attacking a target is boring and broken.
No they need to be removed.
Passive damage reflect have no business in any competitive game. They ruin it.
If Anet wants to keep them in, then remove confusion and change Retaliation to a 3 second Boon that reflects 80% of all incoming damage. Remove the easy access guardians have to the ability and the trait that increases the boon by 25%.
Give Retaliation an obvious animation or a shout.
There. Done. Balanced.
Someone pops retal, you stop attacking them or face death. Not this passive damage reflect.
3x Guardian
2x Mesmer
You die if you do nothing. You die faster if you use your abilities and play the game.
How is this in any way good game design?
no thx… would you like to get these = “you only did xxx amount of damage and you play class xxx you are kitten” or “L0L you play support guardian and you healing is so low wtf are you doing???”
You already see that. That’s the fallacy of logic with this argument.
People who choose to use statistics to berate others will do so no matter what. They will use phrases like “lol you need 3 people to win 1v1” or “lol nice tank spec noob you died in two seconds”.
They will make things up. I had a Thief Steal/Fear my Necro and then complained that I was dead if teammates didn’t show up. That I had blown all my CD’s and used everything. Kinda odd that I can use all my abilities while feared for 3 seconds.
Point is that the logic behind “NO STATS CUZ PEOPLE WILL ONLY PLAY FOR STATS” is flawed because those people already play for stats. Removing them from a scoreboard doesn’t mean anything to these people and does nothing to stop them from berating others.
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Bring a mesmer and have him backcap points. Or another thief. Point is that this class needs to win 1v1 at the other team’s node vs their thief.
Bring a class that can knock the tank guardian off mid. You don’t need to kill him. You just need him off the point for 5 seconds.
If you win the backcapping war and can neutralize the mid node, then you’re already ahead. Defend your point, but fall back if needed.
Let’s say they zerg Henge (your side). If you’re able to back cap Mine and neutralize Keep, then you’re having points tick and the constant kill from the thief suiciding trying to retake mine. While they have nothing but kills. If they cap Henge, they have to choose which points to retake. If they 3 man zerg Mine, shift Keep and take it from them. Keep someone on the backside of Keep to quickly rotate mine and neutralize the point.
Point is that against zergs, you rotate around the map and neutralize points.
Remember,
It takes 5 seconds to neutralize.
It takes 14 seconds to capture.
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Corrosive Poison Cloud Only lasts 12 seconds instead of 15. Also only applies weakness/poison for 3 seconds.
With the nerf to ToC for guardians I think necros will replace them for a mid defender.
Plague form blind spam really cuts down on a teams damage. Whether they’re a condition team or burst team, almost all will bring a thief & warrior with them. But dealing with ranged for blind spam isn’t that much more challenging.
Then you have the offensive power of blind spam of when downing a player it’s very difficult for a team to knock you off them and res, because their key attacks are most likely going to miss.
Boon removal is huge. Lots of people like to stab res and a necro can strip that from them with the 5 button from Focus & Corrupt Boon skill.
Lots of classes are gearing towards immunities. Warriors take endure pain. People get 2 second block skills. All this counters burst, not condition damage, so popping a 2 second block at 5k hp won’t stop those 10 bleeds from ticking away.
Then you have the fact that on maps like Khylo, most teams send 1 mid and stick to downing/defending trebs. This mid player is typically a bunker guardian, and a necro will destroy a bunker guardian 1v1. Plague form blind spam allows your team to reinforce you before you go down if they decide to zerg the point.
Biggest problem with necros is that their trait lines do no work. Probably over 50% of all traits do no function as stated or are completely useless.
So far we have found that,
Minor Traits:
- Target the Weak (gain 2% damage for each condition) does not apply to condition damage.
- Vampiric (siphon health when attacking) only returns 25 health per hit. Don’t worry though, you can trait for 50% more return when siphoning health and it increases to 29 health per hit.
- Blood to Power (5% more damage when above 90% hp) does not work with condition damage.
- Last Grasp (gain spectral armor at 50% hp) does not apply protection when it procs, even though the skill Spectral Armor does.
- Gluttony (Increase lifeforce gain by 5%) does nothing.
- Strength of the undead (5% more damage above 50% life force) does not apply to condition damage
Major Traits:
- Chill of Death (cast spinial shivers when a target reaches 25% hp) has an internal cooldown of 15 seconds.
- Close to Death (20% more damage when target below 50%) does not apply to condition damage.
- Chilling Darkness (when you blind, you also chill) does not work with Plague of Darkness (elite ability).
- Weakning Shroud (cast enfeebling blood when entering death shroud) does not apply two bleeds as the skill does.
- Greater Marks (makes marks larger and unblockable) are still blockable.
- Transfusion (heal allies when casting life transfer) does not benefit from +healing or from 50% increased siphoning.
- Mark of Evasion (leave a mark of blood when dodging) does not benefit from Soul Marks, has an internal cooldown, and only applies 2 bleeds instead of 3.
Skills:
- Spectral Wall (gives protection to allies who walk through the wall) states it’s an ethereal field but does not act like one. You cannot combo off of it. If the ability is cast ontop of you, you must move a range of 180 and run back through the wall to obtain the protection buff.
- Signet of the Locust (siphon health from nearby enemies) has it’s heath siphoning reduced when traited for +50% life siphon.
- Corrupt Boon needs line of sight and the target to be in front of you. Corrupt Boon can be dodged/blocked.
General:
- All “when entering death shroud” traits have a 10 second timer, making the 5 seconds death shroud grand master talent very underwhelming.
- All “more damage” traits never applies to condition damage
That’s all for now. Feel free to add more if you find them.
(edited by Daays.4317)