Guild Wars 2

Fellknight.4820:

Players would no longer be forced into FULL DPS or FULL BUNKER as a player with lower armor or lil to no protection/ret stacking could use his kiting/CC/heal/condition removal abilities to live longer. If anything I think it would greatly add to middle builds that are all but extinct nowadays for most role/classes.

No, people would still play full bunker.

Let’s say your suggestions come true. Thieves backstab like a wet noddle. 100B hits less than auto attacks. Mindwrack is more like a mind massage.

Your nerf to protection did nothing, as it’s no longer needed. Right now, the only reason to have protection is because of the high burst damage in this game. Weakness will be far more effective at reducing incoming damage.

You now have people who don’t die in seconds, they actually don’t die at all. Low on HP? Rotate with someone on point (already done in most cases) until your heal comes back up.

The game will become about one thing and one thing only. Control. This is how all MMORPGS work. When you cannot cross a threshold to global someone, control effects become the strongest abilities in the game.

Which means guardians, eles, engies, and necros will all become a requirement because of control effects and stability. Mesmers will still be required because of portal and boon removal.
Warriors will be decent because of hammer/mace control.
And Thieves and Rangers will be useless as they offer no control effects or stability.

You’ve changed the game into an even more boring version in which you have high hp, low DPS players knocking each other around the map trying desperately to control a point.

But everyone ignores one major thing. The downed system in this game was added to directly counter burst damage. So that if you get dropped instantly, you can still help your team, and your team has a chance to res you mid fight.

I fear the worst when they nerf all burst specs into the ground.

Aragiel.6132:

I dont agree with rewards for 5-8th place in paid.. if you dont pass first round constantly you should not be there. But in general as i said before.. increasing rewards (tickets) in free tournaments its the way to go i believe.

However i hope Anet will do any adjustment fast enough. I really dont want to wait till 15 Nov for next patch. Since we see even top teams now going back to free…i think just small hotfix should do the trick and we will be happy again.

Fixing Free tournies to award more tickets won’t fix paid queue times.

People will still be playing Free over Paid to get tickets.

But say only 24 teams playing paids. Enough for 3 tournies. If half of them don’t belong there because they can’t make it past the first round, then they will stop playing.

That leaves us with 12 teams. Now these teams may rotate, but since it requires 8, you only have enough for 1 tourny at a time. Another once the first round takes place if those losing teams instantly queue back up. If one of those teams is constantly losing, then they will eventually stop queueing.

This system eats away at the bottom, to the point that eventually there will only be 8 teams playing paid tournies. In which case, if they’re not all on, paid tournies won’t exist at all.

There is no interim transition for players to grow. There is no online ladder system for people. There are no private servers with a league setup by Anet to foster games (similar to that of CAL & CEVO).

Basically paid tournies were a terrible decision to make regarding competitive game play and do not even work with their goal of players buying tickets. I’ve only purchased tickets so far with gems I’ve won. And I know very few people who have actually spent money on gems to purchase tickets.

They could have made far more money by spending time of private servers, charging people for them, and creating an online league similar to CAL.

I dont’ think they have lower burst than warrior or mesmer.

I just think their burst is overkill.

Warriors and Mesmers can take away 100% of your HP. Thieves can take away 150%. Hell I kill most 14.1k HP thieves with just mug + c&d. But there really isn’t a reason to do 150% of someone’s max HP.

Problem is, what do you go into now? The class has no access to protection. Vigor only up for 15/35 seconds if spec’d 20 into trickery. No swiftness unless you dodge roll and even then only for 2 seconds. No regen, unless you stealth with 30 into SA, which works against the capping system in the game. The class defense seems to be based around dodge rolling, but with all the immobilizes in the game it really plays against them.

Makes you wonder what’s next once they nerf backstab by 50% and disallow thieves to burst someone down. All other classes have tank specs and immunities and knockbacks. A thief doesn’t.

Ebola.1907:

AOE damage destroys meters and gives an unrealistic view of the state of damage output and also does not account for effects, which to be honest are arguably more important than raw dps output – I mean if your opponent is shutdown/controlled they aren’t helping thier team…

Anyway just my 2 cents.

You’re right. AoE damage does destroy meters.

But also, this game doesn’t have healers. You’re not spreading dots that are being easily healed by hots. The AoE damage you do in this game is highly effective because of the lack of healers.

Guarantee you the team with the most damage is also winning mid. Can also see who the team’s killers are and how they’re doing.

For example, if a thief on a team has less damage than their tank guardian and also has 5 deaths, you can tell that the other team is doing a good job at shutting him down. The thief’s team can also see that and adjust accordingly.

If this game is going to move into e-Sports I fully expect a more statistical scoreboard with k/d, damage, self healing, points neutralized, how long points held, stomps, etc.

All these stats play into why one team is winning/losing and the playstyle of individual teams.

Just did some testing with dancing dagger.

http://i.imgur.com/DILNy.jpg?1

In that picture you’ll see two things. One is the 2x damage increase from dancing dagger.

Now normally, a 3.1k crit would bring the Light Target Dummy down to about 66%. So hitting it twice, the dummy should be at 33% hp. That’s not the case. You can see it’s nearly dead.

Which means that the 6.2k crit isn’t the sum of the two hits. It actually hit for 6.2k

Fix please.

Makes you wonder if it has to do with blocks/dodges/misses/evades.

If you watch the slowmo, you get “miss” “block” “evade” then he hits you and at that time is revealed instantly.

Also, and this is when you play him again 1v1 in the future, Payne really enjoys starting with shortbow, dodge, 2x shortbow dodge, then engaging. He’ll use that opener almost every time.

And it will most likely be done the same way as pistol whip.

Pistol whip by itself, good ability.
Pistol whip + haste? broken.
Solution: nerf pistol whip

Backstab by itself, good ability
Backstab with damage increasing utility skills? broken
Solution: nerf backstab

Hundred Blades by itself, good ability
Hundred Blades + Haste? broken
Solution: nerf 100 blades

Mindwrack by itself, good ability
Mindwrack stacked with more than 3 illusions? broken
Solution: nerf mindwrack

Hopefully remove the teleport and instead allow the mug trait to steal gems from the player.

Arc.9374:

A couple of builds from other classes can achieve similar results from a frontloaded damage point of view, but are almost always left significantly more vulnerable in return, should the burst fail, because they don’t have the luxury of lolinvisible!

While I agree that people will always complain about frontloaded builds, this last part isn’t true.

While a thief can stealth 4 seconds after his initial failed burst attempt and teleport away with shortbow, other classes have escapes as well.
Warriors have endure pain/whirlwind/charge/shield block/leap.
A mesmer has distortion and either stealth or teleport.

Those 3 are the main frontloaded burst classes you see. All of them have ways out of failed burst attempts. If anything, being immune to all incoming damage is infinitely stronger than being invisible, especially with the amount of AoE abilities in the game.

Bsquared.3421:

I play a bunker Ele, and run 3 cantrips (2 stunbreaks). That, plus my defensive spec, makes backstab thieves not that bad to deal with as far as staying alive. But they’re also impossible for me to kill simply because I don’t have near enough burst damage to burn them down before they stealth/run off. Why do I have no burst damage? Because I have to spec defensively and run 3 cantrips just to avoid the instagib leaving me no option to spec for damage. This is why you see so many bunker Ele’s in PvP, because apparently Anet saw fit to nerf our damage after the BWE’s pigeonholing us into defensive support but left backstab damage insanely high inviting every noob fotm reroller to run that spec.

I tend to agree with you that backstab thieves aren’t really that big of a problem when you’re fortunate enough to see them coming and/or have stunbreaks at the ready. But it’s pretty obvious that something is wrong based solely off the sheer number of thieves encountered in sPvP. Anet seems to agree, hence the discussion they’re having internally about nerfing this particular ability.

I wholeheartedly welcome a nerf to the backstab instagib ability (which will cull the # of noob thieves in sPvP) provided that Anet provides buffs to other thief abilities and improves their general utility to make them more useful in some tPvP settings.

You don’t have to run staff bunker. In fact a D/D glass cannon ele will destroy a D/D thief because of the knockdowns, burst, and lightning shield. Same with D/F. In fact a D/F hybrid build is impossible to beat as a D/D thief because of the massive amounts of immunities combined with the damage output.

You see so many bunkers ele in tPvP because of how Conquest Mode works and that it favors having 3 bunkers. One of the strongest bunkers out there is staff ele because of the team support it brings. Not because of D/D thieves killing people.

You see thieves in sPvP the most because they’re strong killers. And you’re rewarded for offense, not defense. Simple as that. Why else do you think games are filled with shatter mesmers, BS thieves, and other pure offensive classes?

Bsquared.3421:

Your entire premise of this argument is based on the fact that every player should save their stunbreaker for backstab thieves, and backstab thieves alone, and that every fight is 1v1, you versus the thief (this is the inherent flaw in this argument).

And let’s not pretend like the backstab combo is hard to pull off, I laugh everytime I see this argument cause I rolled a thief myself to test it out. The fact of the matter is that the backstab combo is total cheese. This is why you see so many fotm thieves in PvP and why Anet has seen it fit to reexamine this build.

So sorry you’ll have to change your spec up after the nerf…

So what else are you using your stun break on? Against some bunker class? Do you honestly believe that’s a good decision? And if a team is running multiple stuns, why aren’t you running multiple stun breaks? They’re utility skills for a reason. Not to mention every class has a way to deal with incoming attacks with their weapon sets alone.

If you’re so scared of a BS thief entering a fight, then your team needs to keep track of him. Put a target up. Most teams run 3x bunker 2x DPS, so you’re really only going to need to use your stunbreak for that basilisk venom.

Most BS thieves look for 1v1’s or look to enter a fight late. All of which can be taken care of with proper map awareness and communication. The spec is designed to prey on those who aren’t ready. A big target sign over his head is kinda hard to miss

Now you know. More GI Joe tips to come!

So you’re defining skill now in button presses?

A thief has to use 5-6 skills total. All you have to do is dodge, use a stun break, or a distance ability. 5 skills compared to your two max? Sounds like you got outplayed.

Then again, the number of button presses is kind of a dumb way to determine skill level.

If a thief is going to come on you, then he will most likely cast basilisk venom. That has a cast time and he gets a buff. At the very least Assassin Signet will be used. You know what’s coming next. So the whole “surprise” thing kinda goes out the window.

An invisible opponent? You can’t steal + c&d + bs from stealth. If they stealth before hand, then you should know it’s only going to last for 3 seconds. Unless of course they use SR. In which case that’s 10 seconds. Plenty of time to create some distance and get in a good position.

I agree. Playing against a BS thief is hard if you refuse to learn game mechanics and how abilities work. It’s the most punishing class to play against for being ignorant. Once you learn them, it’s very easy to tell when the thief is going to come at you bro.

Still not feeling confident in your ability to take on a BS thief? Get access to protection. Even the highest of burst classes can’t kill you when protection is up.

Now you know. More GI Joe tips to come!

Skill #1 Should be a slight self heal, something to delay your death slowly. Example: heals the equiv to 50% of the downed state damage you naturally take. Can’t be interrupted by damage.

Skill #2 Should be an interrupt to save you from dying.

Skill #3 Should be a DPS ability that comes up 15 seconds after being downed. 15 second CD.

Skill #4 Should heal you quickly. Ideally used when someone is helping you up. Can be interrupted by damage.

Skill #5 Should be a self suicide. Adds 10 seconds to your respawn timer.

Then you would just split 4-1 for a quick neut and rejoin mid. If you send 5 mid, you have the player advantage, but it comes down to if they dodge the mesmer shatters and other burst class. If so, downing a shatter mesmer or other glass cannon is simple. What you described is already what every team runs in the current conquest system anyways, and it’s already beatable by doing just that. Get out of time warp, interrupt the shatters, aoe, focus the thief/warrior, etc.

You’re just not punished for losing players because they’re glass and missed their burst. They just get a res or die and come back and try again because you have 3 bunkers.

Anyways, downed players shouldn’t be allowed to cap points in any system. That would be a good start.

Finally can edit:

Anyways Defektive, I would initially just fight that setup 5v5 mid and win. Glass DPS can’t take down anyone with protection quickly (and almost all well-rounded builds have some form of auto protection built in) and once one of your DPS is down and out, we would take the point from you.

Defektive.7283:

Not to be a thorn at your side but. Wouldnt just running more bunkers and having them on a point together always win anyway. Knocking them off the point even in a 2v3 scenerio. Knock 2 off at a time and you’ll slowly win the point.

Unless I’m not putting 2 and 2 together.

I think we need 3 game types. 5 maps that all game types can be used on. Rotated randomly, with game types chosen randomly.

Forcing players to think about balanced builds before a game starts.

It’s a fair assumption.

But right now, a condi engineer is pretty much a well rounded spec. Has damage and survivability and they can easily down a bunker. Just not quickly. But in a team cap system, you don’t need to quickly take someone down. They just need to go down.

If the other team is playing a 4 bunker strat, even if they get some knockbacks off point, they will eventually go down from the lack of damage and ways to mitigate incoming damage. And once one is down, they lose the point.

Also, that’s assuming all 4 sit on point and don’t get knockbacked themselves. Or need to get off the point because they’re low on HP and waiting for their heal to come back up.

Solving the symptoms.

Let’s look at PvP favoring either burst classes or bunkers.

Burst classes exist because you need to take out people quickly to control a point. You jump in, drop someone, then exit and fight on the outskirts. You also need them to drop bunkers quickly to take the point.

Bunkers exist because you need someone on the point who can’t die quickly, but can knockback. A bunker doesn’t need damage. Just survivability.

All of this stems from the current design of Conquest Mode. One person on a point and no one can cap it. Doesn’t matter if your team has more players there, as long as one person is on the point, you can’t cap.

Change that to a team cap system and guess what.

Burst classes will die down because you need players on the point and while you have the potential to drop someone, getting off the point hinders your teams ability to cap. You need to be able to take and dish damage, not just dish.
Bunker classes will die down because there’s no point in dying slowly 1v2 when they’re capping the point from you. You need to be able to absorb and dish damage, not just absorb.

The current game design is the problem. Not bunkers. Not burst. Not protection. Not haste. Until you’re required to go a more balanced spec, it will be either one or the other.

Hey guys I don’t know how much certain abilities cost or how certain skills function, but here’s my suggested changes to balance them.

Good post bro. Looking forward to more in the future.

Pyrial.2917:

@Zunhar, that is the current model though. Stealth, with the number of ways to access it is one of the best defensive mechanics in the game and it’s tied to warrior level of burst.

As you’re saying that stealth is the only defensive mechanice, then again put it on par with the longer cd defensive mechanics of other classes. As it is now, specs are littered with the ability to enter into stealth virtually at will. Stealth for 5 inititiative…combined with auto attack damage while rebuilding it is over the top.

Cloak & Dagger requires 6 initiative.

Once again, proving your knowledge of game mechanics is lacking.

Whatever you do, do not change the damage on backstab.

The damage is fine. It needs a function nerf. It needs to break stealth upon using it. Only 1 backstab per stealth.

Imagine if a mesmer shattered a target that was blocking, but their illusions didn’t die and their mindwrack stayed off CD. They could do it again and again and again until finally it lands.

This is how backstab functions right now. It needs to be fixed.

Don’t make the same mistake ya’ll made with Pistol Whip.

@Sky

You say thieves are gods among men when scaled upwards, yet you also claim theyre not competitive for tPvP? That’s not possible. No god class would be terrible in tPvP.

I have 11 QP out of 18 tourny games played so far. All our loses have to do with strat calling or being outplayed. Has nothing to do with thief being viable or not. The class isn’t terrible like the Ranger.

And why do people keep saying the thief has the best mobility? Dagger offhand ele’s take that prize.

The problem with backstab, and I’ve been saying this since day 1, is that it doesn’t follow game design. All other skills have cooldowns. If you miss, it goes on cooldown. All thief skills require init. If you miss, you still waste init.

Backstab has no init, because it requires stealth, but can be spammed. Meaning dodging/blocking/blinding does nothing against it. This is why it’s easy to land the killer burst combo. Not because it does too much damage. A shatter mesmer does as much damage as a thief, but in AoE, but they’re not broken because they follow the limitations placed in the game. Same with a 100b warrior.

Right now backstab is akin to a mesmer shattering a blocking target, their mindwrack staying off CD, and their illusions staying alive, allowing them to spam mindwrack until finally it lands.

Fix that and you fix that killer burst combo of thieves. Nerf the damage and you make the same mistake made with Pistol Whip.

Pyrial.2917:

How about they’re in stealth and you can hit them with a kd or a stun. This is exactly why theorycrafting is pointless. Are there counters to thief abilities? Yes. The problem isn’t saying what to do in what situation the issue is an ability sways the balance in the favor of a thief disproportionately (given the burst).

A-net has stated they would not make the same mistakes as previous mmo’s in duplicating the perma stealth imbalance. The “perma” stealth from other games would be preferable to this one, because once out of stealth it requires the use of a long duration cd to get back into stealth. Constantly jumping in and out of stealth and doing the type of damage they do is not balanced by any means.

Stealth doesn’t stop K/D and stuns. You can still land them against a stealthed target. If a thief stealths against a warrior with Bull Rush for example, the warrior can BR and it will still land. It takes ~1 second for all abilites to stop tracking a player when stealthing.

It is quite clear you don’t know how stealth functions and assume it’s some cloak of shadows in which the player is immune to all CC and damage.

So you mean someone is using game mechanics and terrain to their advantage? Shocking! How dare they! If only you could use it back…

Did you know you can’t steal up Z-Axis? You can’t steal through objects as well. You won’t be teleported to the target, but will still do damage is traited for mug. Which means that opening burst and gap closer failed and gives the other player an advantage.

You don’t see the 2x edge in putting all your eggs in one basket. If a backstab thief wants to kill someone in an opener, then they have to commit to it 100%. If they fail to land it, then they will lose. There are plenty of ways to counter it, from protection, to dodging, to terrain usage, to proper skill usage.

This entire post is about a bad player saying he can’t react in 1.5seconds, but claims he has quick reflexes. It’s a whine thread. And then other people agreeing and saying no one can react to that and need at least 2 seconds minimum.

Yet I can guarantee you not one of them knows how steal functions. How venoms function. How stealth functions.

Instead, they go against a glass cannon they know nothing about, die, and make a whine thread.

I personally play my thief with no stunbreaks. I rely on being able to dodge openers and incoming stuns. I win all of my 1v1’s against other thiefs. I win the majority of my 1v1’s against other thiefs when I play my ele, my warrior, my necro, and my guardian. I win because I know how the class works. The limitations. The damage & survivability potential of the class.

Should educate yourself on how classes work and find a way around it.

But don’t worry. A change is coming. Already been announced. And I fully expect it to mimmick the changes made to pistol whip. Nerfing the damage instead of what really causes the issue.

Pyrial.2917:

Daays.4317:

And how is that not practical?

See thief, immobilize/stun, kill him. Doesn’t matter if he stealths. He’ll die. You can’t get hit by an immobilze or stun as a thief. Stealth won’t save you. You’ll just die while invisible.

Because if everything went as perfectly as described and we played against AI, then that would be a plausible response. That isn’t the case, I can just as easily say that the thief will always open and burst you down from 100-0. That’s not what I’m addressing, I’m talking about the give and take nature of balancing burst to be in line with the fundamental trade off for that burst. Inherently, stealth negates this trade off.

And I can just as easily say that a thief should never hit his opener against you because you have the ability to dodge in this game.

Fact is, you have the tools to dodge the opening burst and counter for a kill, just as a thief has the ability to land the opening burst and finish a kill.

It all comes down to who plays better and if you’re prepared and know what to do when fighting someone.

Except you know it’s coming.

First off, you can’t steal + c&d + bs from stealth. It’s not possible.
Second, the thief will apply basilisk venom before going in. It has a 1 second cast time. He gets a venom buff. You know it’s coming.

If the thief buffs himself from stealth, waits out stealth, then goes in, then you should be counting. If he healed to get the stealth buff, then count to 3. If he SR, then count to 10.

You being completely oblivious to how other class mechanics work doesn’t help. You not having a game plan for when being engaged by a thief doesn’t help.

Should educate yourself on other class abilities. And if you can’t react in time, design a spec that has access to protection so you cannot get killed in the opener.

And how is that not practical?

See thief, immobilize/stun, kill him. Doesn’t matter if he stealths. He’ll die. You can’t get hit by an immobilze or stun as a thief. Stealth won’t save you. You’ll just die while invisible.

Pyrial.2917:

Stiv.1820:

The counter to stealth is just root & dmg. Any thief at 50% health should be eating a root or Moa or whatever. Once all breaks are down a root is death. Sure they can stealth but they can’t move or dodge and still take damage like normal.

So defined in your counter, “…or whatever” That’s not a real counter. How do you beat a warrior, “well you do whatever when they’re at 50%”. How do you beat a shatter mesmer, “well you know, you do whatever when they’re at 50%”

Let’s look at your suggestion though, what do you do if you don’t have a root or moa?

Fortunately all classes have access to immobilize, cripple, and stun.

Also, if you immobilize a warrior and try to burst him, he can shield block. Endure pain as well.
If you immobilize a shatter mesmer and try to burst him, he can can distortion.

A thief doesn’t have access to immunities.

Almost every game: Guardian/Thief/Mesmer/Engie/Ele

Less than average every game: War/Necro

Rarely: Ranger

Only been getting queue’s after 7pm CST personally. Anything before that we sit in queue for 30mins and nothing pops.

Might be because of the hurricane destroying the east coast, but feels like a lot of the teams who do paid are PST.

Dee Jay.2460:

I think they should outline the most pressing issues with each class and publicly explain how they plan to address them. After some feedback they should chose the most intuitive and least intrusive way of buffing/nerfing them.

Using the Thief an an example, Backstab damage isn’t actually the problem. It’s just the most obvious effect of being able to Steal during C&D. Removing that “feature” would do a lot to curb Thief burst without actually changing the numbers.

That’s not a problem either. Really wish people would stop saying “this is the problem”.
You can ability mold with other classes as well. Dumbing down the game is an awful idea.

The problem is you can spam backstab. You can’t spam any ability in this game but backstab. Dodges/Blinds/Blocks were added in this game for a reason. Backstab bypasses all of those.

It needs to break stealth when used. You get one backstab per stealth. Period.

Not a damage nerf. Not nerfing other things. Just how it functions.

Know what issue no one talks about? The tracking issue when stealthing.

When using channeled abilities, leaps, targeted attacks, etc., they will always follow anyone that stealths for 1 second after stealthing. Even if you dodge roll behind them. If they use a leap they will do a 180 and follow you.

So you’re saying that a thief is stealing + c&d + bs you from stealth?

And no. I’m saying that in PvE, a half second cast time is considered a joke of an encounter. That when this boss swaps to this phase and RANDOMLY casts a half second raid wipe ability, you must interrupt it.

Yet in PvP, I’m told that half second is too fast. It needs to be at least 2 seconds. And not reacting 1.5seconds after being engaged upon is now considered to be having “good reflexes”.

Sky.9347:

Daays.4317:

No.

I’m making an analogy to the reaction time needed to succeed. You say 1/2 a second is too short. It needs to be longer. You can’t react.

Scripted PvE events in another game require multiple people to react within half a second or your entire team fails.

If you think half a second is too short, then your reaction time is too slow. Improve upon it.

There is a major difference between scripted events, and PvP.

If you don’t understand that, then there is nothing anyone can say that will change your mind.

There’s nothing I can say to change yours. You failed to draw that same conclusion that Blizzard designed a PvE raid encounter around a 0.5sec interrupt rotation across multiple people. It was designed to be beaten. You could react fast enough.

Yet I’m being told half a second is too fast when the average human takes 0.215 seconds to react to something.

Not only is half a second too fast though, I was told that it should be increased to 2-3seconds.

Over 10x the reaction time of an average person.

So since it takes a couple of days to fully change someone’s mind, I’ll see you in 20. Maybe then you’ll see how ridiculous it is claiming you have fast reflexes and need at least 2 seconds to react.

The answer is quite simple.

If you don’t have the reaction time to react to a 0.5second opener, then you need to create a spec that allows you more time to react.

The only way you’ll instantly die to an opener from 100-0 is if you’re a glass cannon.
Any class running with soldiers amulet cannot be killed from this opener.
Any class with protection cannot be killed from this opener.
Any class with aegis cannot be killed from this opener.
Any class with a melee/ranged blind cannot be killed from this opener.
Any class with blocks cannot be killed from this opener.

Gilgamesh.2561:

It’s true that the only casual sPvP mode tends to be hot-join. Grinding ranks through solo-queuing free tournaments will take forever, as you are unlikely to make it past Round 2 or Round 3 due to premades.

It’s quite funny that premades are even matched against PuGs in free tournaments. Shouldn’t tournaments be about skill? There is no skill in PuG stomping.

• If you queue as a group you go into POOL A.
• If you queue solo you go into POOL B.
• People from POOL A are only matched against others in POOL A.
• People from POOL B are only matched against others in POOL B.

Problem solved. Will queues be longer? Yes. They’ll also be worth it. I’d rather spend an extra 5-10 minutes waiting for a queue for a game that may end up giving me more glory and rank than losing a game I have no chance of winning.

The burnout for casual solo players such as myself is strong, because we only ever see 1 or 2 maps. Kyhlo pretty much doesn’t exist to me. You may argue tournaments are meant for grouping. If that’s the case they should remove solo-queuing from free tournaments.

So what happens when you queue with only two people?
Three?
Four?

Are you solo or a group? Did it solve the issues of PUG’s vs Organized groups?

All you did was successfully increase queue times.

It means during all of this, you can press your “save me” button at any time and live.

You can read the thief and dodge his steal combo as well. I play with no stunbreak on my thief and snub openers all the time with LDB/dodge rolls.

Also, unless the target is standing still, you have to typically take a step forward/backwards for positioning. Which means the combo time for all of this is typically 0.6seconds. That’s 3x the average human reaction time.

Also, having protection will prevent you from being instantly killed if you don’t have the hp/armor to live through this opener.

Not really making a good point here, outside that you’re 3x slower than the average human when it comes to reacting and you are incapable of predicting movements.

And that the OP is 7x slower than the average human.

Lol. Half a second is too fast to respond. Are you serious?

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/stats.php

Average human reaction time, 0.215 seconds.

And you want 2 seconds? Are you honestly 10x slower than the average human?

Even when factoring in a half-second delay for lag, the average person would be able to respond in time to live.

No.

I’m making an analogy to the reaction time needed to succeed. You say 1/2 a second is too short. It needs to be longer. You can’t react.

Scripted PvE events in another game require multiple people to react within half a second or your entire team fails.

If you think half a second is too short, then your reaction time is too slow. Improve upon it.

You mean the 6th warrior that has come in after you dodged 5 of the other warrior’s bull rush doesn’t have to work for it?

The horror. Who cares in sPvP? You should be running multiple stun breaks and mobility utility skills to escape. No reason to get mad that finally, after 5 screw ups, someone actually landed something.

Just laugh and move on.

MMORPG’s PvP has never been about twith/micro skill. It’s always been about decision making.

While good decision making is a benefit in an RTS/FPS game, having superior micro/twitch can and will trump someone.

This isn’t the case for MMOs. What’s your spec? Their spec? Your CD’s? Their CD’s? Your positioning? Their positioning? etc.

You’re presented with a ton of information, more so than an FPS and RTS game, and it’s your decision to act or not act. It’s the strat calls before and during the game. The execution of your strategy.

So take the game for what it is. The skill in an MMORPG is superior decision making compared to the other team, not who has better micro/twitch.

The best way to increase skill is to decrease the amount of time you have to make a decision. Sad thing is just look at how that holds up with the community. People are upset because they’re dying in 1.5~2seconds “before they can react”. Yet no one questions why they’re reacting 2 seconds after being engaged. They want the game slower, which just decreases the amount of skill in any game.

Because a game where defense = offense is boring to watch and play?

Do you honestly enjoy those bunker guardian 1v1 fights where no one every dies? Despite what people say, when two glass cannons fight each other, whoever makes the first mistake loses.

Go watch people play 3x healer in WoW. Tell me how enjoyable that is.

Buff warriors?

Go look at every patch. Please, tell me anything that has to do with warriors in them.

There is no dumb luck with a thief stealthing to open on you. Only you not knowing what ability he used, how long his stealth lasts, what to do in that situation, and what he is capable of.

The burst a thief puts out is no faster than the burst you took in WotLK arenas. You have two globals before you die. Use them properly and you live. In fact, it’s easier to survive because of the dodge mechanic in this game and how you don’t have to eat the damage or use an immunity to stop the incoming initial burst.

Thankfully the teams running 2x guardian with the block bug are typically terrible and you can still win by outplaying them. Been seeing them mostly on FoN, so at least they don’t get their tickets back.

Most def an intended mechanic.

Unintended mechanics would be the mace block bug.

Think the sad thing is it’s required for every map as long as conquest stays the same 1cap system and not a team cap system.

So bigger question is should a spec no one enjoys playing be a requirement for every single map?

If it has counters, then it is by means not “absurdly overpowered”.

Absurdly overpowered would mean that no matter what you did, how you played, you could never overcome that obstacle.

SR is no where near that level. It doesn’t necessitate portal defense.

Also, portal is only strong if the team you’re playing against enjoys backcapping (assuming your mesmer is playing point defense). If they forsake backcapping for a stronger team fight pressence and hold their close/mid, then having portal on your hotbar is a waste. No reason to be two places at once if the other team is only in one spot.

And in those 2-4 seconds you couldn’t have done anything. If someone dies instantly from coordianted burst, it doesn’t matter if you had 10 people on your team. That person didn’t avoid it and is now down.

On foefire you need to play in between the point. If the thief shows up, you can make it there in time easily with swiftness. Plus his constant stealths will decap his progress made. If he goes mid, you swap dagger offhand, ride the lightning, and you’re back mid instantly.

Foefire was a poor example because it’s a straight shot from side points to mid, something easily covered by an ele.

I’ll take foefire as his example. Ele on cliff.

Keep track of the thief. Unless he refuges while in his gates, you can see him come out and refuge. If he does refuge inside his base, then you should know the spawn timers and when you need to head back just to be safe. If he engages mid, you just ride the lightning/swiftness and you’re back to mid very quickly. If your team loses because it’s 4v5 mid for 2-4 seconds, then you would have lost anyways because another person wouldn’t have stopped the coordinated burst.

Noctred.6732:

Daays.4317:

Easiest way to counter a thief crossing the map stealthed is with a teleporting defense.

That’s like… the entire point of the thread. I’m not even sure which side you’re arguing for.

Jumper.9482:

In tPvP, the main purpose a thief (BS&PW) brings over other classes is to get in unnoticed and burst someone down before they can react (because they didn’t notice you; less time to prepare/react).
10 Seconds of stealth just trivializes this as the enemy team can’t even tell what half of the map the thief is on.

Pretty sure the entire point of this thread was about a thief crossing the map unseen and bursting someone down. Since you know…that was the original post and why he decided to create it.

There are counters to it.

I played and won against Jumper last night on kylo in which he stealthed across the entire map. The only time he was able to backcap was when he won his thief 1v1 against me.

There are multiple ways to stop/counter it. Also, by sending a thief to backcap, you’re losing your DPS elsewhere. Which means if they have their DPS mid and you don’t, your team will be hard pressed to win that fight. Easiest way to counter a thief crossing the map stealthed is with a teleporting defense.