Guild Wars 2

While I’m on the subject of pacing, I want to address the interweaving of Dungeons into the personal story. Frankly, this was a poor decision, or at the very least, was poorly executed. The problem arises because dungeons themselves are optional regarding story progression – up until the final dungeon. While technically speaking dungeon completion is not necessary for the final dungeon/mission, there is another level of immersion breaking that occurs because of this decision. Foremost, players who have opted not to do dungeons but wish to have the Destiny’s Edge experience will now have to go back and experience each dungeon in turn, when the primary focus is the immediate threat of Zhaitan. This problem is needlessly compounded by dungeon structure. A single-player storyline is turned into a pick-up-group event which creates even more problems. While I was able to do Ascalonian Catacombs, Cadecaus’ Manor, and Twilight Arbor – many following dungeons were completely abandoned. I was unable to find a group to complete Sorrow’s Embrace, Citadel of Flames (due to a glitch, which is forgivable), Honor of the Waves, and Crucible of Eternity. That is 4 story missions that I was unable to complete due to lack of grouping and is a SERIOUS flaw in the story structure that personally gave me a very poor experience with the game – one that I am honestly surprised occurred given the obvious reliance on Heroes and Henchmen in Guild Wars 1. This should not be a re-occuring problem in later expansions of the game. Dungeons need to be either a total non-requirement with regards to story, or there needs to be an option to experience the story without looking for a group. I feel like this was one of the larger oversights of the story structure.

I have two more issues I wish to discuss with regards to mechanics, and they’re much more brief. First is the mechanics of the missions themselves. This problem reveals itself in the form of difficulty. I’m not going to go too in-depth here, because I believe this issue has been firmly touched upon and acknowledged by Arenanet, but still I can chime in with my thoughts. Playing as an Elementalist, I found many missions to be frustrating in their difficulty due mostly to combat mechanics or the ineffectiveness of combat AI. I consider myself an experienced game player (HA , RA, and Elite Area running in GW1, tournament-level League of Legends play, among other things) and even I felt the single-player difficulty was over-tailored for me – I shudder to think of the experiences of players who are much more casual in their play and experience level. I often found myself downed by mobs that would endlessly swarm me even as I kited to the extent of my energy and zoning abilities, and allied NPCs felt wholly ineffective at anything other than tanking (when I wasn’t being targeted). This led to frustrations over either A) being downed too much in a story where I am supposed to be the hero, or B ) being the only “reliable” damage force in a large-scale mission (Claw Island, for example, where every mob was just endlessly fighting until I came along to clean up). The structural problem I’m sensing here is that mission difficulty does not feel adequately tailored to my class. Foregoing specific instances of difficulty, the overaching theme was that I felt like I should be playing a warrior – mobs would rush me instead of my allies, my allies would never tank so I could employ true Elementalist-style play. I’m not sure how extensively this was tested, but the main point is that I felt out of class. This is understandable given the limited experience of the Personal Story team, but should be addressed in the future.

Mechanics and Flow of the Personal Story:

To begin, I’m going to say that I enjoy the dichotomy between the personal story and the world events, DEs and Hearts. I think it’s a refreshing break from traditional mission -> quest -> mission structure, and it allows for a more expansive and encompassing world. That said, it presents several challenges and problems with the pacing of the game and the development of the story.

The first and most obvious problem was the level pacing, both in mechanical and lore terms (though I’ll explain the latter in the second part). In mechanical terms, the level grind is far too static. Do a personal story mission, then complete world specifics until you’re a high enough level for the next story mission. In theory, this could work. The problem is that level requirements pile up too fast, and have negative consequences. I often found myself grinding levels during plot-critical content – for example, Claw Island has just been invaded and Lion’s Arch is poised to be overrun. However, my level requirement is too low to complete the next mission, and so I have to abandon my personal story and break the immersion of immediate threat. That’s problem #1. Problem #2 was that I found, having a preference for world exploration, that I was far exceeding the scope of the story in an attempt to level for it. I reached Fort Trinity well before I even got a hint at the formation of the Pact in the personal story – because I found the most realistic option to enjoy the story was to complete as much of the world and gain as many levels as possible, so that problem #1 could be avoided.

These issues arise from an overt emphasis on the 1-80 experience. The personal story is tailored to a pseudo-Guild Wars 1 structure, but without the level structure of Guild Wars 1. In GW1, Missions provided a much higher rate of experience, and levels capped out much quicker. In Prophecies, you were never more than a level or two above or below your mission requirement, and even this did not have a significant effect on gameplay – missions were still easily completed because you were not reliant solely on yourself for progress. In the event that you WERE underleveled, rubberbands were in place. In Prophecies, this was Augury Rock, where completion would net you enough experience to jump from level 16 to level 20 immediately, and the rest of the story followed linearly from there. Facitons and Nightfall generally did not have this problem, as experience gains were much higher and most players were max level before really diving into the story. Because of this level structure, Guild Wars 1 allowed unimpeded story progression that did not break immersion or a feeling of emergency. In the future, Guild Wars 2 needs to be reminded of this flow. While I understand the importance of the level 1-80 experience, the current story model does not condone this and suffers for it. Rubberbands need to be in place to help players with the story so that it can flow properly, or the story needs to be restructured such that there is no significant downtime between missions. Resolving this issue may also alleviate the “ghost town syndrome” I’m currently experience in zones that are labeled levels 40-70. Because of the extreme necessity of exploring for experience, players are completing the world much faster than they are finishing the story. Unless alternative methods are employed, by the time the story is completed, players will have explored most of the world and have little incentive to backtrack to areas below their level (this issue also has to do with poor loot scaling, but I won’t get into that here).

I’m just going to warn you with the first sentence of this post that it’s going to be a long one. Whether or not this scares off readers makes no difference to me, but I’m just putting it out there that there is not going to be a tl;dr, because no tl;dr could possibly encompass what I have to say. This post is 12 pages (6900 words) single-spaced in Microsoft Word, and is probably no less than 20-30 minutes of reading. Sorry

If anyone wants to put me in touch with e-mail of the Arenanet creative team, writers and personal story creators, I will also reformat the post and send it to them, assuming they don’t see it here (fingers crossed).

To preface: I am a Guild Wars player for the lore and the story foremost (and for awesome armor second). I have a lot to say about Guild Wars 2’s personal story in that regard, because, for me, it was one of the biggest draws of the game – to see the legacy I created in Guild Wars 1 continued in Guild Wars 2. While I know Guild Wars 2 was a big step forward for Arenanet, and therefore filled with plenty of challenges but great potential, I’d like to step in and provide my views on the story, mechanics, lore, and other aspects of the Personal Story and the journey to level 80.

I am no stranger to the Guild Wars world, and that’s an understatement. I have over 5,000 hours logged into GW1 (see attachment), of which 90+% was spent in PvE. I know each and every campaign, mission, character, lore piece, and plot detail like the back of my hand. I know what I liked and didn’t like, and I know what worked and didn’t work in the context of the Guild Wars universe. Which is why, above all else, I want to see Guild Wars 2 flourish – I want to spend another 5,000 hours with this game, as I did loving the first. I know Anet has the potential, and so I only want to help.

That said, I’m obviously going to be drawing comparisons between both games extensively and where appropriate. This means that there are going to be potential spoilers for all 3 Guild Wars campaigns + Eye of the North, as well as the entirety of Guild Wars 2.

So, to begin my analysis and feedback, I’m going to be dividing this letter into two parts: Mechanics, and Story/Lore. The first part will focus on the structural gameplay, flow, and feel of the single-player adventure. The second, and by far more important to me, will focus on the lore of Guild Wars and the story-telling methods and tropes presented. I’m just going to say now that I value the latter far over the former. While the former certainly impacts how the story feels, it can be altered and adjusted with much more relative ease. You can change bad mechanics and tweak numbers. You can’t change bad storytelling and tweak characters/voiced dialogue (within reason).

Above all I want to make it clear that no matter how harsh (or praiseful) I get of the game, that none of this is to degrade what Arenanet and their creative team has made. This post serves only as my personal beliefs about what Guild Wars could or should be, and I make it only because I love the game and want to see it excel.

So, without further ado, let me jump in, starting with mechanics:

I went through my entire personal story save for the last mission, and since it has a dungeon requirement, I’d like to go back and do all the dungeons in Story Mode before finishing the personal story.

…Except I’m stuck on Sorrow’s Embrace because there’s nobody here. I don’t even have the option of using Henchmen, and I can’t world tranfer because it’s limited to one per day. Is this dungeon unique in this regard, or am I going to find CoE and HotW equally abandoned? Really bad foresight on Anet’s part.

Imperial Thor.5487:

Actually thought Darmikau was right, But afterwords, FoW armor would be considered 339g where as Cult armor is what? 107g? My math may be wrong since it’s 3 in the morning for me. But regardless.. Assuming the price for FoW armor is 1695 plat.. In GW2 10 silver is 1 plat.. If someone wishes to double check I’d recommend it.

I also never bothered with the FoW didn’t like it so can’t confirm actual costs of it either.. Loved my Primeval armor.

I’m not sure where you’re getting 10 silver = 1 plat from – there’s no direct currency transfer between the games. You have to have a 3rd party mediator, in this case, real money.

Look at gold selling sites (which I don’t condone, but am using to illustrate this example), I’m seeing 1,500 plat selling for $40 USD. The same site, for GW2, is selling 100 gold for $130 USD.

This puts the price of Tier 3 cultural armor at three times the price of FoW armor.

This is really basic math.

Addendum: Going by current exchange rates, it will cost you $437 USD in gems to get the 100 gold necessary for Tier 3 cultural in the BLTC. That means if you’re looking at the illegitimate price of FoW (since there’s no legitimate transfer) and the legitimate price for Tier 3 cultural, Tier 3 cultural is over ten times the price of FoW.

The GW2 economy is really, really deflated.

Adine.2184:

Whya are you even LOOKING at gold seller sites that has nothing to do with this. Although it does make me wonder about your ethics . Im simply talking about IN GAME economies . Where as a Gold is the highest level coin in Guild Wars 2 a Plat was in Guild Wars 1 . This by default makes FoW more expensive

This is a joke post right?

Im just going to leave it there though as this debate is pointless .

You could just admit you have no idea what you’re talking about. I know it’s not the easiest thing to do on the internet, but rather than just leaving, you could stop and listen to what others have to say so you gain a better understanding of the topic and can contribute more meaningfully to the discussion.

My guess is because people would bot farm them, since Champion Risen Giants could infinitely spawn them.

Adine.2184:

Darmikau.9413:

Adine.2184:

The only difference between FoW and T3 cultural is that T3 cultural is cheaper .

Sorry but this is wrong. At the current price level T3 is, at best, twice the price of FoW, and at worst, as much as five times the price.

Cost of Armor- 15 Plat per piece
Cost of ecto- roughly 1020 Plat
Cost of Shards -roughly 600 Plat

Then of course you had the cheaper mats . However taking the way the economies worked into account FoW is by far the more expensive

You’re not using a base currency to compare monetization in the games. You could buy 1600 plat illicitly from gold farmers for about $150 USD. In GW2, gold spammers are currently advertising 10 gold for 20 dollars, which puts Tier 3 cultural at a minimum price of $200. If you were to go legitimate and use Anet’s in-game currency exchange, it comes out closer to something like $500 USD. That’s more than 3x the peak price of FoW armor.

I’m not sure why you just looked at how much plat FoW costs and assumed that it was more than Tier 3 cultural. GW2 gold is really, really deflated compared to GW1 gold. Tier 3 cultural is too expensive because there are too many gold sinks in the game and not enough money is getting pumped into the actual economy to make Tier 3 relatively more inexpensive.

Adine.2184:

The only difference between FoW and T3 cultural is that T3 cultural is cheaper .

Sorry but this is wrong. At the current price level T3 is, at best, twice the price of FoW, and at worst, as much as five times the price.

Server: Henge of Denravi
Map: Fireheart Rise
Skill Point NPC Missing: Marse Sycthetail

Just got disconnected from the game and told I had an invalid password, now the login server doesn’t seem to be working.

Hickeroar.9734:

A lot of players I’ve talked to firmly believe that their class is the best.

You haven’t met an Elementalist.

I’m seriously confused. I like to farm the Shelter’s Gate event in Orr, but the loot just makes no sense sometimes. Most notably the fact that I haven’t farmed it in over 24 hours and spent any amount of time within those 24 hours doing other things, mostly exploring. Yet when I go to farm the event, I get nothing. I hardly even get white item drops.

Which is strange, considering the usual is 5+ blues and 3+ greens, plus tons of gold and salvageables (I always have 140% MF).

I really can’t attribute this to RNG – there is no way there is that much variance in the loot table that my usual run is filled with greens blues and golds, and then all of sudden I don’t even get whites despite not farming the event or killing undead for 24 hours. Is there a glitch in the farm code or something?

Happiness with the game, or with my class?

80 Elementalist 10/10, with respect to class

Ukaei.8694:

That very limited hour of the day you have to spent on this game..

Basically.. it’s as though that hour of you playing the game and making progress never existed.

Basically.. it’s as though that hour of you playing the game and making progress never existed.

I know what a rollback is.

I don’t know why/how achievements and map progress can be rolled back but chest status/loot isn’t. The game was rolled back to a state where I got neither the achievement nor opened the chest – yet somehow the chest is already marked as used (and its loot is not in my inventory). How is that possible?

Guys help, they’ve taken me hostage and they’re forcing me to buy shiny stolen gears.

I got rolled back to a time just before I did two things:

Do a jumping puzzle and open the chest + get the achievment
Get a heart event

That’s fine, no biggie.

But I go back to do the chest again – I don’t have the achievment so it gives it to me, but the chest is already open and looted – and the loot isn’t in my inventory. How exactly does this work?

It’s not a big deal because it was crummy loot anyway, I’m just curious as to why the heart and achievement reset but the chest and its loot didn’t.

I have 91% on the in-game map, but at the title screen it says I’m only at 89%. It seems to do this a lot (list different values in-game and at the character select) anyone know why?

Adine.2184:

Wanting an RP server is a form of elitism . You are basically saying RPers are more important than others when you’re not. I create a profile for every character I make and I’ll RP it every now and then but i dont feel so self important to need an exclusive server to do it on

Sorry, but this is the worst straw man I’ve ever seen.

This is kind of off topic, but since this thread has a bunch of RP server players in it…

How is the RP server? I’d like to give it a try (I would have gone there first, but I didn’t know there was an RP-centered server…), but I’m not sure how serious people get about it. I like to role-play casually, but I’m not looking for somewhere where people refuse to break character or get upset if non-RP chat happens. Basically, is the server filled with people who just RP as a courtesy and create a fun experience, or is it like that episode of South Park where the entire Western village is held hostage and the performers feign ignorance and still won’t break character? I’ve seen a lot of role-players who get blisteringly mad if people talk out of character or refuse to leave character to discuss something (like, say, a party is failing a dungeon) and, if that’s the level of RP the server is like, I’ll just avoid it.

The gods left Tyria well before the events of Prophecies – but their power was still tangible. The events of Nightfall shed light on how the humans view their gods and vice versa. This excerpt from the Gate of Madness details one of the final major interactions between the humans and the Gods, and basically sums up the current relationship:

Ending cinematic
Kormir: “Gods, we beseech you. Hear our prayers.”
<player name>: “We have come where living men should not be. We have fought armies, crossed wastelands and conquered demons.”
<player name>: “Now we are in the heart of Torment. We must destroy Abaddon before he destroys the world. But we cannot battle him alone.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “You are not alone. The gods are always watching.”
Kormir: “Watching? We need your help. We are only mortals, and we challenge a god.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “There was a time when the gods walked the earth. Every thought and achievement was a gift of the gods.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “But now you must realize that our gifts are within you. Dwayna lives in your compassion, Balthazar in your strength.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “Melandru dwells in your harmony, Grenth in your justice.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “And in your inspiration, Lyssa is there.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “The divinity is within you. And so, we give you our blessing. That should suffice for the task ahead.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “And to you, Kormir, a most special gift.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “This is your world, now. This is your decision. You must make the choice that only a mortal could make.”
Kormir: “Our decision? They leave us some words of encouragement and expect us to fight a god?”
<player name>: “The gods said we have a choice. A choice that only a mortal could make.”
Kormir: “Yes. Yes, there is a choice. We can end this. We don’t have to be driven by gods and their avatars. Let us go.”

Basically the power of the Gods lies within the human race. Their influence over Tyria has diminished but their will has lived on through the hearts of the people.

I don’t think I’ve ever had a single line of text almost bring me to tears.

If the loot didn’t suckkitten I wouldn’t be so compelled to wear magic find gear. Even WITH as much MF as possible (about 150% without a boost) the chance of getting rares is so abysmally low. Still haven’t even seen an exotic.

I’m currently stacking magic find because the loot is trash and hopefully MF will help me get the money I need to get an actual good set of exotic gear. And I’m sure I’m not the only one. That’s what happens when, instead of making max armor available for cheap like GW1, you make max armor super expensive – everyone stacks cheap, good luck gear so they can try and save up for real gear. Why would I blow all my money on non-max gear just to keep getting crud drops and making it take even longer to get actual good gear?

Sorry, but if you think Tier 3 armor is easily affordable or that someone who plays this game casually could ever get it, you’re crazy. I’ve been farming Orr for 6-8 hours a day for over a week now and have enough for one, maybe two pieces (two if it were the cheap, 12g pieces). Even once I can afford the entire set, I STILL have to shell out another 40+ gold for an entire set of exotic armor to transmute it onto. And this is after farming the most valuable spots in Orr using waypoints as infrequently as possible. If you think someone who casually plays the game who has armor repair and waypoint costs could ever earn enough to buy it, I’m sorry, but it’s not going to happen. Either that or you have a really obscured view of what “normal playtime” is because normal people with school and work don’t get to play the game for 8 hours a day.

I’m hearing rumors that farming got nerfed in the most recent update, and I’d believe it, because I just went 24 hours without farming a single event in Orr, and when I finally decided to do it, I’m getting about 1/2 the normal total loot and less than half the quality (half the # of blues and greens), even with 145% magic find.

I’d be okay with this if I actually knew another way to make money, but I don’t. The rewards for exploring, something I enjoy doing, are absolute garbage. Nothing below level 80 drops anything of value, and the exploration rewards is something like 20 silver for 2-3 hours of work.

The solution to farming is not to nerf farming, it’s to make not farming just as profitable. If you nerf farming people will still bot the farming, because they don’t actively participate anyway. Meanwhile all the players who casually farm just leave the game. I’m not even exploiting the farming – I’m doing 2-6 events, going to work on my explorer for a couple of hours, then coming back. Rinse and repeat. I haven’t abused dungeons or exploits. Is even THAT not within the paradigm on “no farming, no grind?” Working to get high end gear is fun for me. What’s not fun is having every single way I’ve found to make a bit of cash nerfed into the ground, so that it takes me so long to get end-game gear that I just give up – because there’s only so much “fun” I can have not farming before I realize it’s going to take me months of play just to make progress. I get the whole “work hard and long” for your gear sentiment, but there’s a little thing called present value, and when you keep increasing the time it takes to get anything cool, you’ve worked so long and hard that you’ve discounted the awesomeness of having that gear into 0. There are negative returns to scale here. If something is too easy to get, everyone has it and getting it is lame. If it’s just right, some people have it, but not everyone, and getting it is AWESOME. If something is too hard to get, then nobody has it, but getting it isn’t any cooler because you have to bust your mule for so long that you stop having fun trying to obtain it, and then you buy it and look back and say “the coolness of this doesn’t make up for all the time I wasted trying to get it.”

I’d actually decided to go for Tier 3 human cultural, despite the fact that it’s non-max and grossly overpriced, because I really like how it looks. If you really have nerfed the event I’ve been farming, I’m not sure I’m going to be able to afford the armor with anything less than 2 months of playing – and I’m someone who still manages to get in a solid 6-8 hours of play a day, at least. I can’t imagine how anyone who has work, or a more rigorous schedule, can possibly afford to purchase anything above rare gear.

I hope you have something big planned in terms of content updates soon, because all that’s happening right now is that you’re trying to sting botters while crippling legitimate players, encouraging auction sharking and exploitation, and in general, you’re really just making it seem like a player’s ability to make money is cutting into your bottom line (read: gems). I’d like the believe Anet is better than that, but all these recent changes are making it really hard to think otherwise, as evidenced by the increasing number of conspiracy threads.

I really hope you guys have some kind of plan for this. Going back to GW1 looks more and more promising with each update, where you can actually reach the carrot on the stick. Also that carrot has max nutrition and beauty. Also you can buy slightly uglier but equally nutritional carrots for 1/10th the price so everyone has a fair chance of eating healthy, and the beautiful carrots don’t take trans-continental distances of jogging before you get them.

My main problem isn’t with power so much as feel. The elemental and the great sword just don’t feel “Elite Elementalist.” The Tornado DOES give that feeling, but it’s insanely weak for PvE.

Searing Flames, Shockwave, Invoke Lightning, Ward Against Harm: THOSE were elites. They felt POWERFUL. They felt Elemental. They really gave the sense of “I am the master of elements, behold my power.” The GW2 Ele elites just don’t have that feel, especially since they’re on huge cooldowns. I would have much preferred elites that are low-impact, low cooldown, so long as they really felt Elemental. At the very least something that really exemplifies elemental power, like a glyph that gives double damage for 5-10 seconds or something. Just that huge numbers high. That’s why I played Ele in GW1 and it’s why I picked one in GW2. Elites aside it seems like they tried to take the utility side of attributes like Water flag runners in GvG and force it on me. I like having utility, but not at the expense of feeling like a power elemental manipulator.

Speaking in base terms it’s really, really overpriced. The economy is going to have to inflate pretty heavily before it’s reasonable to afford. Going by Gems to Gold conversion, a full set is about $500 USD. If you were to buy that gold illicitly, it’s still about $250 USD. The peak price of Obsidian in GW1 was about $100 USD.

I’m saving up for Tier 3 human cultural, but I’m going to put the money into commodities and wait because either the currency is going to eventually inflate (Anet’s trying really hard to make it not to with all the gold sinks, but right now it NEEDS to happen) or Anet is going to nerf the price, OR they’re going to change the stats to match level 80 exotics.

One of those 3 things needs to change because right now it’s pretty ridiculous.

Summoning an Elemental doesn’t feel very elite, the fiery greatsword requires putting myself in Melee range which is exactly where I don’t want to be, and in PvE the Tornado seems to do really poor damage and, again, puts you in melee range. The latter two also prevent you from using all of your primary abilities, which is obviously a huge disadvantage.

Right now I’m pretty much stuck using the Hounds of Balthazar because at least they draw aggro away from me while I cast spells.

Title says it all really. I’d like to have the option to not deposit my minipets when I want to deposit all my crafting materials/collectables. I don’t think I’ve used my minipet since my golem banker expired because it’s just too inconvenient to get it out of the bank only to have it go right back in any time I get a few crafting materials while playing.

Don’t let people get on your case about long posts. I’m one of those people at actually enjoys reading and so I read your post and thought it was very well written, and very insightful.
I wish I could comment more on it, but I’m too much of a noob to even form a coherent thought. I really just wanted to give you praise for taking the time to write something so well thought out.

The point is really just to encourage discussion. I tried to hit all the bases of what I feel are core issues, but I’d like to know what I’m missing, too. If there are better and less monotonous ways to farm I obviously want to know about them.

I managed to get 500 salvages just doing general farming in Orr.

By the way, I’m a level 80 and the reward I got for my monthlies was 52 copper, 7k experience and 20 mystic coins

The last part was nice, but the first two parts felt…pretty underwhelming.

Great posts and hits on a lot of the key fundamental problems I and others have with Orr. I would add to your points that this creates the bottle-necking seen in places like the Penitent Path in the Cursed Shore where players simply run back and forth between the two camps the farm the defense DEs because attempting to travel anywhere else either results in:

A) You dying on the way there
B) You being unable to complete other DEs due to lack of players

While I don’t personally have the information on it, I’m sure a heatmap of Orr would reveal a LOT of hotspotting where people farm certain events, and then virtual deadzones everywhere else that people only check for gathering materials.

I would also enjoy if I wasn’t limited to Orr for the best loot. Having only two zones designed specifically for level 80s was a poor decision, I believe, especially given that they’re about as far in latitude as possible, making the waypoint costs huge. Heck, I’d even spring for more level 80 Orr zones if we couldn’t be provided with level 80 specific content in other areas of Tyria.

Adlez.6543:

I never read long posts but I was almost sad when your post ended, this sums up exactly how I feel about gw2 right now. I’ve been waiting for this game for nearly 3 years (less than some hard core fans, but still substantial) and have found myself heart broken by the fact that they have betrayed ALL of their morals. it’s barely a month in and I already can’t see myself playing past December.

I really hope, and have a feeling, that some of these concerns will level out over time. That said I still think certain things, such as Tier 3 cultural armor and waypoint costs are simply too much, regardless of where the economy is headed. Waypoint costs are okay if you’re not interested in making money, they’re only a slight nuisance. But when you’re actively trying to avoid spending money to save up for something, it’s really aggravating to not be able to waypoint around the map without losing a pretty nasty chunk of money.

Cezton.2415:

What’s so disappointing about them? Ele was going to be my second profession to 80 for the sheer amount of variety in magic.

We’re really squishy. And according to some, we don’t do as much damage as other classes either.

Level 80 Elementalist.

My gameplay consists of throwing down AoE and zoning tools and desperately trying to prevent anyone from sneezing on me.

I feel like my damage is pretty good but I haven’t played any of the other classes to compare. I’m super fragile and scream like a little girl when enemy mobs get near me.

Bassario.3465:

Anyway just a heads up, ultimately you want ppl to acknowledge what you are saying but at least 9 out of 10 of the people who looked at this post went “HOLY UNDEAD BATMAN THE WORDS THEY NEVER END” and they moved on without reading, so u rly need to plan it out a lot more, reduce the repetition to get yr point across or no one will read it

I’m used to making long posts, and do so frequently on other forums like the League of Legends boards (and they’re typically more analytical than this). I’ve tried condensing posts into shorter forms, but I’ve come to find that leaving out even a single detail will cause people to jump and make assumptions out of context. I had to make the entire paragraph about how Tier 3 Cultural Armor is at least twice the peak price of Obsidian armor because if I didn’t, someone would say “Yeah well it’s supposed to be super expensive!” when in context, we’re talking about hundreds of dollars in base exchange rates, which is clearly out of line.

Luce.4951:

Currently, I go somewhere and I have to stay there until I get back my travel cost and good luck if I die where I have no allies and have to use a WP again :P

This has also been my experience. When exploring the lower level areas I have to make sure I don’t get swamped (I’m currently an Ele specced into glass cannon, so there is a threat of dying even in low level areas) because there’s a good chance that even a single armor repair + a waypoint will cost me more than I make exploring the area (sans 100% completion reward). Even if I get 100% explorer without a hitch, I get maybe 20 silver at most, for at least 2-3 hours of work.

Oh, and if that’s the base price for max gear, don’t even look at the price for aesthetic gear. 120 gold for tier 3 cultural armor? That I have to then transmute on exotic gear?That’s just ridiculous. And before anyone takes up the stance that it’s all about prestige and cosmetics, and not meant to be obtained in a week of farm, let me draw another comparison to GW1. In GW1 the most “prestigious” armor, Obsidian, cost about 1.2 million gold at the time Ecto were about 7-8k each. I don’t condone, nor encourage anyone to buy gold for real money, but I am going to use real money as a monetary base for this comparison since it’s the only way to value currency between the two games. In Guild Wars 1, you could illicitly purchase gold for a rate of about 1 million for $80 USD. That puts the price of Obsidian armor at a real-money value of around $100 USD, give or take. Currently, in GW2, websites are advertising illicit gold at a rate of 10 gold for $25 USD. That puts the price of Tier 3 cultural armor, before transmutation, at $250 USD, over twice the cost of Obsidian armor at its peak price. If we go by Anet’s own in-game store, where you can turn Gems into gold at a rate of $10 USD = 800 Gems = 2g13s, at 120 gold for full Tier 3 cultural armor, it costs over $500 USD to purchase the set through gems swapping. That’s five times the peak price of Obsidian armor in GW1. I don’t care if you think Cultural Armor should be hard to obtain or not – 500 dollars in in-game currency exchange is a pretty obvious indicator that either base monetization (waypoints, armor, etc) are heinously overvalued, or base drops (pure gold, sell-to-merchant-values, etc) are heinously undervalued.

But before this turns into any more of a rant, I’ll get back on point.

Loot drop rates, loot value rates, or the general overpricing of base items are stifling the economy. People aren’t getting valuable drops, so the price of high end items are starting to climb through the roof, while the base loot values sink through the floor because they’re everywhere. Waypoint costs are so high that travelling around to break the anti-farm code isn’t really feasible, and players are simply bottlenecking high-event areas where they can stay in one place and essentially AFK farm the same events over and over (Why pay 6-8 silver to teleport to and from Teqatl and break the monotony, when the average payout of the chest is <6 silver)? I know that system is there to encourage people to do dynamic events in the area they’re in, but it’s also forcing people to just absolutely never move from where they are. This also has to do with the fact that there’s only 1, maybe 2 feasible areas for a level 80 to farm effectively, but that’s a separate issue.

The core problem is that gold sinks are so effective at preventing inflation and rare drops are so scarce right now that farming, never teleporting and hoping you get something valuable is pretty much the “right” way to farm. Playing the game casually will put you spending so much on waypoint costs and repairs (these are inevitable, please don’t try to argue that you never have to repair your armor, everyone gets cheesed at some point) that you HAVE to farm or you will not be able to afford anything above rare items, and not without weeks of play. Maybe there’s another side to the economy that I haven’t seen yet, like crafting, but on the farming side of things, I’m really seeing no other option than to find and stick to mass events, the same events, over and over.

And I’m worried about the future of the economy if it stays like this, where vendor trash is going to keep being the same price where incredibly rare materials, weapons, and upgrades keep hiking in price. I’m also worried that an even worse approach to a solution might be taken, such as nerfing the Orr events that are one of the key ways players are making money (to encourage other forms of farming) while keeping the price of waypoints and other gold sinks the same. If that happens, I’m not sure how your average player is going to get by.

I know this is a lot, but I’m speaking to a lot of concerns I’ve seen people making, and feel like it’s an issue that needs a bit more attention brought to it – especially since it’s having a negative impact on the core philosophies the game was meant to be built on (no mindless farming, lots of choice of how to make money and play, etc). Please disagree with my points or give me perspectives from non-farming ways to make money, and tell me it’s not that bad. Because on my end it’s pretty bad.

tl;dr: Base values (armor, waypoints) are egregious to the point of extortion. Loot drop rates and values are terrible and it’s creating a huge dichotomy in prices. This is forcing people to farm if they want to get anything above scraping by, and people are resorting to staying in the same place to avoid spending money instead of enjoying the game.

So the game has had about 2-3 weeks to settle now, and while a lot has yet to be determined and to evolve, I’m just going to say that at this point in time there are some seriously troubling economy issues – mostly stemming from loot, gear, and gold sinks. These issues, I find, are to the point that they go past mere inconvenience – they’re actually hurting the game – but I’ll get to that. What I’m finding right now to be the core problem is that there are incredibly conflicting goals in regards to philosophies over gear and grind, and what seems to be an attempt at curbing inflation that’s just stifling any real choice about how to make money.

So either one of two things is happening here that I’m noticing: either everything is way too egregious in price (waypoint travel costs, cultural armor costs) and the economy can’t inflate to curb it, or loot is just absolutely terrible and it’s stifling economic growth. It could be a mix of both. In either case I’m seeing a lot of problems pop up from this. Foremost, it’s locking players into mindless, immobile grind just to make ends meet. For being advertised as a game without substantial grind, I’m finding a heavy amount of players sitting in the Cursed Shore running back and forth on events at the Penitent Path. There are several reasons for this:

1: Waypoint costs are egregious. Orr is the only area worth farming, and even if it WERE worth it to farm other areas – you’d spend half your income teleporting around. This isn’t just about convenience – if it were, you would see people running around for more events. Instead players are choosing to stay in single areas that provide them the most events possible. It’s not worth it to deviate from farming this place, because you either pay huge waypoint costs trying to get to other areas, or you’re playing a class that has trouble running and you end up paying a bunch of cash in armor repairs and (surprise) waypoint costs if you die trying to get anywhere. Solution? Stay in one spot and farm.

The only caveat to this is to farm large group events, you know, Teqatl, the Shatterer, etc. But I don’t see many players doing that either. Why?

2: The loot is terrible. I’m not going to go too in-depth on this one because it’s been pointed out, but loot is currently just awful. Group event and dungeon chests filled with nothing but blues, veteran and champion mobs that don’t drop significantly increased loot value, etc. The general drop rate is also poor. I know the evidence is anecdotal, but I spent 8 hours yesterday farming the Penitent Path (I’d much rather be doing other things to make money, but like I said, waypoint costs among other things don’t really condone it) and even with 140% Magic Find I got a total of two rare drops. In eight hours. And that’s doing occasional WvW to make sure there’s no anti-farm code kicking in. With 140% MF. My roommate and I both have 200 hours in the game at this point, and neither of us have yet to see a single exotic drop. Where are all the rare items?

As a quick aside: Can I ask why there has been a sudden abandonment on the policy of not having to grind to be able to gear up? I was of the impression that Anet was going to continue their policy of max gear for cheap. About the time I was level 75 I began to look for max gear, which is when I found out it can only be acquired by either shelling out 5x the amount of Karma I’d earned just playing the game, shelling out 15-20 gold on the auction house, or crafting (which if you know how much this costs, please tell me, because I don’t have a clue, I went cook). That meant I had to settle for rare, non-max gear until I can grind and farm enough money for max gear. That does NOT sound like Guild Wars or Arenanet. Even since Prophecies the stance had been that you could get max gear, for cheap, even if it wasn’t the most aesthetically pleasing, the aesthetics were the only part that cost money. You could purchase a full set of max armor (sans materials) for 7 platinum. That’s the equivalent of 50 silver or less. Yet I’m finding in order to get max gear, I’m having to pay up to twenty times that price? Please tell me the market just hasn’t settled yet.

Some consumables give the vague bonus of “40% increased gold from monsters,” I’m not sure if that means 40% more gold when it drops, or gold drops 40% more of the time, or both. Does anyone know?

Agree, I’m not sure why there are world completion events in a PvP zone. I had no intention of doing WvW and yet I’m having it forced down my throat in order to get world completion and I’m getting griefed while trying to do. It’s also completely counterintuitive to the fact that while I, and others are trying to get the completion objectives we’re taking up queue slots that would be better served for players who actually want to participate in WvW.

The drop tables are really mediocre and it’s almost not even worth speccing into magic find. Even with 140% MF I still get maybe two rares doing 8 hours worth of Dynamic events in Orr. I’ve done the Shatterer, Tequatl, and the Temples in Orr multiple times and only ever gotten a single rare out of a chest. I have not gotten a single exotic yet. Either the overall drop tables need to improve or MF needs to have more of an impact. End game areas need to have much more substantial loot than this – if I don’t spend more than 2-3 hours in Orr at a time farming I end up spending more on waypoint costs than I make in cash.

My only gripe with Orr is that it’s THE end farming option. I’d really like to spend my time doing other areas, but the loot is garbage compared to what I can get in Orr. Which is really counterintutive to the whole anti-farm code.

Orr drops the best loot + Everything in Orr is undead = Hit the anti-farm code really quickly

Everywhere but Orr (With the possible exception of Frostgorge) is poor for level 80 characters = You have to stay in Orr.

So what am I supposed to do? Grind out underleveled mobs until I can farm Orr again? Be forced to participate in WvW as someone who is more interested in the PvE aspect of the game?

While I like the level 80 and trait system, it’s really put a hinge on where you can go to get content done. In GW1, especially in Cantha or Elona, you hit the level cap almost immediately and then the entire mainland of the game was level 20 content. This means everywhere you went was worth it in terms of farming, exploration, and generally having something to do. In GW2 if I want to do level appropriate content, I’m just stuck in Orr. I don’t like that.

They’re currently looking into addressing participation in events with regards to reward level (Bronze/Silver/Gold). This may include changes that make it easier to mark enemies for experience and loot.

You’re not alone on this. I’m an Elementalist and even I have trouble tagging enemies in some of the more popular Orr events, many times they die before they even pop in on my screen.

Tengu when we get the Cantha expansion.

That’s about it. They’re the only race advanced enough in diplomacy, technology, and general craftsmanship to be above the lesser races. They had villages in GW1 and were a high honor culture. They were also pretty much the only race deemed a capable threat to the Dragon Empire. Elona is pretty much all humans, and the only other race, Dwarves, are out of the picture (supposedly).

We’ll see what Anet has up their sleeves though. In a single light-content expansion they managed to invent 3 races and turn an Ascalon-only fodder enemy into a full race.

I’m sorry but that is absolutely ridiculous. I have 0 interest in WvW combat yet I have to have it forced down my throat in order to get a PvE based goal? You’ve got to be kidding me.

I already have to spend tons of gold teleporting between waypoints, fixing armor, and dealing with terrible drops and experience from PvE areas that are too low for my level, and now I also have to deal with a gametype I had absolutely no intention of playing – one that forces me to deal with real players who go out of their way to keep me from doing objectives that are trivial compared to the real goals.

I’m not sure who thought this would be a good idea, but they clearly never considered that massive grief potential in killing players who are trying to get exploration objectives rather than focusing on actual WvW goals. Needless to say having ANY goals inside the WvW arenas that aren’t specifically beneficial to WvW is completely counterintuitive in the first place.

Sorry Anet, but this is probably the biggest middle finger you’ve given the PvE community since you gut half the skills in GW1 for the sake of PvP balance before the skill split.

Please also look at pop-in and damage participation values. I can get gold in some Cursed Shore events but barely get any kills/drops because things die so fast. I play an Elementalist and can’t even do enough to damage to mobs to get kill credit. In some of the more popular events, like the ones near the Penitent Path, a lot of mobs die before they even pop in on my screen. In the event that I can see them, they typically still die before I can even channel my spells. The only solution is start casting before mobs get there and hope they walk into my AoE and take enough damage that I can get kill credit/loot.

Pretty sure that’s not intended.

Agree. I had a much higher enjoyment of the high-number low-health mob style of Guild Wars. I know it encouraged a lot of tank and spank, but it was good old fun. It rewarded good aggro control and setting up danger zones. Maybe it’s because I’m used to that style of play that I feel like dungeons are super slow and every mob is a boss mob.

It also slows down what should otherwise be a fast gameplay experience. In GW1, it was all about fast execution and positioning. My experience so far as an Elementalist is to stand as far back as possible while a heavy armor class draws aggro and just mindlessly roll over my highest DPS element until the enemy dies 3 minutes later. Combat is very fast paced outside dungeons, but in dungeons themselves there is no fast paced execution.