Guild Wars 2

Tigaseye.2047:

OK, I didn’t want to comment on this, as repeating myself endlessly is really not my style, but so many people seem to be labouring under this misapprehension, in this thread, that I guess I ought to…

The name “Massively Multiplayer Online” (MMO) game has nothing to do with how many people directly play with each other, or cooperate with each other, in the game.

The “Massively Multiplayer” is just referring to the number of people who can coexist on the server (or servers) at the same time.

It implies nothing about whether they have to be actively playing together, or not.

They could all be playing together, or they could all be soloing, or anything in between.

It is “Massively Multiplayer”, either way.

Just because you have come to expect that we will all be playing together, or that is your personal preference, in MMOs, doesn’t mean that is what MMO refers to.

I agree and am tired of repeating this as well…
Some people are just incapable of seeing things through a lens other than their own.
In addition to MMO not meaning you have to play cooperatively, there are many reasons to play an MMO even if you’re a total loner like me… some of which are:
> the sheer number of hours of entertainment compared to single player games,
> the various different ways to spend your time in game,
> the level of control you have over your own path,
> all the shinies!

I just want to know what the hell happened to scaling?!
I mean… the entire world either scales to me or scales me to it, but a Guild hall can’t be claimed with 2 people (unless it’s been nerfed or you’re incredibly lucky with mob placement).
I don’t normally talk about raids because initially they didn’t bother me, but people keep mentioning them in this thread and got me thinking. Raids don’t even scale. I know their point was for it to be challenging, blah blah blah… A lot of us know exactly what raiding is in every other raid-focused game. While I completely knew what to expect there, I’m now annoyed by it because they’re clearly catering to people who either play or came from other games… not the people who came to GW on their initial premise and what they’ve stood for in the past 3 1/2 years.

How hard would it have been to make everything scale?
Guild hall claiming
Guild hall leveling
Raids
Everything.
And I mean true dynamic scaling… not this scaling for 10 people or 20 BS.

Who cares that the tiny amount of players who get their kicks only from having things not everyone can easily obtain even though they’re mostly just a bunch of kittens getting carried (the totally externally centered people who derive their importance from how other people view them – good or bad – the Trumps of the game.) wouldn’t get their little flags to wave?! This is actually pretty reminiscent of what’s wrong with our society as a whole.

Until now, It’s mostly been about skins, which were largely individual achievements… Putting in the effort to craft a legendary – Back in the day, that took a whole lot of troll killing and everyone knew it – that’s where your status came from. But I guess they’re too common now, so much so, the flag-wavers needed something new to make them feel cool. So now the focus is not on skins (because let’s face it… there aren’t many new ones that are like OMG cool – I still want them, though, of course), but on what? How big your guild is, how many friends you have? how fast you can down raid bosses? How many mats you can grind? How easily you can dominate over the poor sods who actually have to work for stuff in WvW?That sounds an awful lot like another game I used to play…

Honestly, From my original post, my entire opinion has evolved from mild hatred to disgust. kitten … I wish I had a better game to play right now! /logsonGW2

This xpac is all about Big Guilds and to me big guilds are usually a huge mass of talentless dullards hiding behind a few actually skilled and dedicated players. So I guess, in the end, HOT’s really not catering to the elites, but rather the masses of wannabe elites who don’t or can’t actually contribute anything but mats and Gold to success, which, in turn means this Xpac is about mats and Gold. Typical.

Not even the same thing at all, Mal.
You can’t buy Legendaries from vendors. There are vendors, one of which only level 40 guilds who have put in the maximum amount of mats (it’s the last thing in Restoration2) will have access to. They even put the vendors behind huge paywalls or an entire lifetime of gathering, depending on who you talk to – I like to do all my own gathering and spend real cash on gem store stuff – Anet can check this… I like to buy things. I will be doing my own gathering… I’ve started! I have 101 shovels so far (yes, I am a chest-run moocher – I only give 1 shovel per however many people are there) and haven’t been selling my incidentals – just sigils. I fully expect to be grinding mats far into gray hair if they don’t make some changes to help smaller guilds out.

Again… I don’t expect people who aren’t in super small guilds to understand. There’s just too huge of a disconnect in realities between me and people like me and you and people like you. Big guild people have practically no responsibility at all – they carry sooo little weight on their shoulders… of course this all seems trivial to them.

saturn.4810:

Forums are filled with compaining because for some ppl (including me) complaining on the forums is more fun than playing GW2 atm

The players help players section doesnt’t have much complaining, though. So look there to give and ask for advice

Right?!
I’m here because it’s more entertaining!

I don’t regret buying it, but I wish they implemented the new guild hall stuff with more consideration for smaller guilds that put a lot of work into the old stuff then having that same stuff put behind a huge wall of mats, forcing us to work for the same stuff over again.

The gliding is awesome!

The new zones are… meh at best, but I’m sure they took someone a whole lot of work. When they’re empty, it’s really hard to get anything done and they seem empty too much. The meta events are cool when there’s a big enough group for them (LFG is key).

I also get confused sometimes with which direction to go (up or down), but that’s not really Anet’s fault —- it’s just me being directionally challenged in 3d space.

I’d like it just so I stop leaping off of high places then falling to my death! Consistency is important for us old folk!

But Valerian, you’re right about some things, including that there is a lot to do. Right now, I’m trying to get my husband to go back through all the old story quests to get those Mastery points because I’ve come up short. That will take a little while

I’m not sure what’s better for their bottom line. In most games, there are more casuals than non-casuals. I refer to myself as casual not because I don’t spend much time here. I’ve posted my logged hours before and they’re pretty competitive. I’m also a relatively skilled player, as in, between my husband and I, we can usually carry a couple of people.

I’m casual because the reason I played GW2 is that it was a game I could be casual in and still see all the content. I’m tired of raid leading and guild leading and having to deal with people in general. A decade of that BS is enough for anyone! Here, I could wear sweats and a t-shirt and let my hair down, per se.

My argument is that they’ve taken away my primary reason for coming here by gating content behind having to dress up – for other people. I’ve phrased this so many ways and it never really seems to get through to the people who haven’t had to work for anything… they’re just in a big guild and pat themselves on the back for donating 20 shovels. I don’t mind working hard. I just don’t appreciate having that work end up meaning nothing.

I’m hungry and probably not making sense… again.

Obtena.7952:

You will never be reimbursed for your ‘effort’ playing a game … I can’t even believe I read that. It’s not a job, your RL necessities are not a results of time ingame. Are you even aware that through the EULA, you don’t even OWN your account? This stuff isn’t even yours.

Which is why I’m here. HI!
I have lots of time. YOU, Obtena, are not my target audience, I’m so glad to have attracted your attention, though, as you’ve made several interesting and thought-provoking contributions to this thread. Might I point you to another thread that’s in need of your guidance?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Delete-7

Since you’re so good at saying nothing.

Vorch.2985:

I feel like the ability to join multiple guilds makes the OP irrelevant…

Lots of criticism I can understand, but this simply isn’t one.

I didn’t put all my money and effort into other people’s guilds… I put it into mine and now have to re-farm for the buffs the banners gave, for example, … things I already earned were taken away. I’m not sure why it’s so complicated for people to understand… If they’d reimburse me for my effort, I’d totally be okay with joining another guild and would likely pour all my current resources (I do have a TON for one person) and the reimbursement gold into that guild. But they won’t, so I want what I earned without having to fork out all the mats by myself again. This is about the principle of the thing. Most people aren’t very principled or are too apt to just go with the flow and I wish I was one of those people, so I could just go on with my happy little blissful existence. But I’m not. This crap bugs me!

I was in 4 other guilds before HOT… I left 2 of them because I don’t care about their progress or the people in them. But one of the other guilds is run by a RL friend with a level 19 guild. I’ve helped them with missions and gave them some shovels, etc…. The reason I won’t pump all my mats into his guild is because IT’S NOT MY GUILD that I’ve already put so much gold and time into and I know he can’t stick with a game (except EVE) long enough for me to throw my support behind him. It’s pretty simple. I support myself and my family.

Obviously this isn’t a problem for people in bigger guilds or who didn’t pump a ton of gold and time into their own personal guilds during the first 3 1/2 years of this game, so those people shouldn’t post here… but rather in threads that pertain to them.

There’s got to be a reasonable solution somewhere is someone’s head. Not mine, obviously, as I can’t imagine how difficult it is to balance a game and all it’s facets over large numbers of people, but I really feel like they needed to offer bonuses to their target audience without taking away from everyone else and I’m having a hard time believing the turn they’ve taken towards being like Blizzard. The primary reason I loved this game was because they were NOTHING like Blizzard.

TheMaskedGamer.5708:

If you wanted a Refuge game, try playing more single player games, or much simpler games. This IS an MMO, ya know?

Try reading… I’ve already responded to your totally unoriginal “this is an MMO” response… 3 times in this thread alone.

Oh… but I do play SP games… occasionally. They don’t offer me as much bang for my buck and aren’t nearly as entertaining.

Obtena.7952:

My problem with your complain about GH’s is that it’s based on the number of people in your guild. See, that’s not actually your problem because we all know the barrier to doing GH isn’t people in the guild, it’s gold.

It’s Mats… That some people will buy with Gold, Sure. I prefer to pay them for Black Lion Market things… not for gold to get a basic quality of life back. Maybe when I’m bored enough, I’ll go through the mat list and assign current gold values to everything, so we can see just how much it would take…

But no, inherently, it’s not Gold.

Obtena.7952:

I wasn’t talking about raids either. Anet said the whole of HoT was a step up in challenge. Focus of the game hasn’t changed, it’s still Barbie and Ken Dress up MMO and still allows for non-pros to play 99% of the game and feel good about how awesome they killed that mob while watching Netflix and pressing 1. Game is still casual friendly; they haven’t removed any of the content that all the casual people love to do.

I get it .. even though Anet warned you about the difficult content, you were hoping for something different and bought HoT anyways. It’s got some surprises you don’t like that offend your ‘want to solo an MMO’ playstyle and now you’re unhappy and trying to think of ways to show how the wool was pulled over your eyes.

You said nothing of value after clearly not reading or comprehending my replies in this thread… again. Run along now…

I’ll pretend I didn’t see this part at all because you can’t be this stupid.

Linken.6345:

Just becor 9 persons so sign myuse …

You’re just regurgitating information we already know.

I will get my guild decoration – when I get my guild hall. We can’t open it up with the actives we have (2-3). Sure I could ask for help from random people I don’t care about, but… no. I shouldn’t HAVE to. If they don’t want 2-3 person guilds, they should make the requirement higher. IF they let you be a guild, they should let you have a guild hall without having to pander to others. Regardless, claiming the guild hall isn’t my concern in this thread. Scroll up to the top of page 1 and review. We will claim it soonish… on my husband’s terms (not mine)… He has a plan that is totally outside Anet’s expectations of this xpac…. as usual.

Yes I’m fully aware of tavern buffs… That are behind a mat wall. a HUGE mat wall to get to 10% – They took them away and are making us work for the same kitten again. It’s just inconsiderate. My opinion stands as valid.

I have to go roller skating, so enjoy your day!

Obtena.7952:

1. Anet made it very clear HoT was a step up in challenge. Not sure what that means to most people but for me it means ‘if your a scrub, don’t buy this’.
2. The player class you claim is disregarded has been catered to for the last 3 years.
3. Even if someone isn’t a pro gamer, there is still much that can be accomplished in HoT.

1. I’m okay with challenge. Again… not talking about raids. If I want to raid, I’ll ditch my awesome toughness gear and raid. My point is I like to be able to play however I want. My point is valid because that’s how it’s been for 3 1/2 years. Again…
2. They can’t completely change the focus of a game and expect nobody to notice or care. Many of us played this game because it was casual friendly.
3. Casual != Scrub. I bet I’ve put more time and money into this game than 90% of it’s player base. I have been playing MMO’s (most through their available content, including all raids) for well over a decade. This game WAS my refuge and I want it back. I am no scrub.

You don’t have to agree.

Once again, This thread isn’t about raids. Nobody here gives a rat’s kitten about raids.

This thread is about Anet completely disregarding an entire player class. If you are not of that player class, I see not how your opinion even matters in this thread. The relevant opinions are of those feeling disenchanted and Anets. We are here to let Anet know how we feel and I, for one, plan to make sure they hear me. So far, I have no indication they’re even paying attention – they’re too busy tuning things to their smaller, but obviously more important player strata. They basically built an expansion for big guilds on the backs of small guilds then told the small guilds to F off.

I did read the blog posts and watch the streams before the expansion and there was NOTHING – not one single moment – indicating the requirements to build a guild hall would take super small guilds the rest of their natural-born life to farm (not all of us are young tykes with no experience or solid foundation for our beliefs).

The real take-home message was that if I build my guild up to level 24 (across all areas), I’d get cool stuff. So I did. They then took away everything I had build and put it behind a wall along with all the new guild stuff.

I asked for reimbursement of all the gold I put into my guild (I was willing to forget about all the time and banners, etc…), so I could feel better about joining another guild. They refused, so here I am. I will be here until I either get properly compensated or until they make guild hall’s reasonably achievable by smaller guilds.

I’m also tired of the this is an MMO… of course guilds matter argument. This game came out in 2012. I’ve been playing for 3 1/2 years and didn’t need to be in a bigger guild until HOT. They set my expectations over 3 years. I didn’t set my own expectations… you can’t completely change the very focus of a game and expect nobody to notice or care. There are also many reasons to play an MMO solo… as I and many others have mentioned before. With very few exceptions (I can only think of one – Skyrim), you get around 40 hours of enjoyment out of a solo game. I put upwards of 3 years (not counting sleep) of my life into another MMO and am at 2424 hours into GW2 with every intention (up until recently) of surpassing my logged hours for that other game. I love the non-linear model Gw2 chose, but they may be moving away from that given their recent decisions.

Bloodstealer is right and it’s something I have said in other forums… Playing an MMO means you’re playing online alongside massively multiple other players. It does not mean that play has to be cooperative or that I have to put up with other’s bullkitten. I loved that I could play GW2 however I felt like at each moment I logged on.

kitten !
Wrocket set me straight on changing ascended stats… That’s easy enough. I’m just so wrapped up in other annoyances, I was blind to the obvious.

Seriously… The one stat combo that got me thinking I could actually put together an ascended set that didn’t mess up my vibe and it’s not available for normal purchase like everything else – just off the AH… I was planning head and pants to keep within my stat preferences overall and the head PATTERN (not the actual thing) is 129G and the pants aren’t even up at all. And the prices will only go up until you reintroduce them and even then, in an event that my RNG will hate me and thus not provide for my needs.

Stick dire or zerker behind that wall and give me my keepers!

Ridiculous!

Makes sense, Shel. Will take your ideas into consideration
Something my husband said made me feel a little bit better. He said:

“There are still plenty of things I want to do for my person growth in the game that don’t have to do with the guild hall, so I’m going to focus on those for now and when I’m done with those, see where Anet is on the guild stuff.”

Maybe I’ll just do that. I still have other goals to achieve that don’t necessarily require I sacrifice personal principles. I tend to get so negatively focused on just one aspect of a thing (not just this game – it’s kind of just how I am as a person) that I forget about all the positives. So maybe I’ll try (try being the operative word) to focus on the things I like… and see how that goes.

Curo.2483:

The raid was designed for organized groups of highly experienced and geared players to have a challenge. Anyone who complains about the raid being inaccessible is missing the point.

Who complained about the raid? I must have missed a post.
Most people in this thread don’t care about the raid. That’s not the focus in this thread. If the raid was the only thing inaccessible to casuals or small guilds, this thread wouldn’t exist…

I agree with the OP to an extent – If you’re solo on an empty map, some of those hero challenges are kitten -near impossible… Like the one in the bottom left of the first HOT zone… Champ with adds after you touch his box… IF you kill it, it only sometimes give you credit and that’s a BIG IF… It’s really hard-to-kitten -near impossible to solo – even with a huge entourage of reaver pets.

BUT… if you’re on a non-empty map, you can call out in /m “need help at <link WP>” and people usually come. I did that for 2 toons at that stupid challenge (for which I didn’t end up getting credit, but people came to help! <3 )

Honestly, this whole expansion was designed to compete with games GW2 doesn’t need to compete with… it WAS different from those games and that’s why a lot of us came here. Now, it competes for most stupid, guild-centered grindfest like many others. It won’t win that competition, but I’d prefer it not even be there!

I’ve seen several 4-person posts and can see that, but 2? Want proof!

I posted a while ago asking about the strat for 2. We tried it with 2 and it felt impossible… and my husband and I can usually do content made for bigger groups… just the 2 of us, so… unless we got seriously unlucky with mob placement or they’ve nerfed it since day 1, I have serious doubts about that claim. Do you recall what forum thread? I have some questions.

here’s my original, no-reply thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Claiming-Guild-Hall-with-2-people/first#post5684940

At this point, Leap, I feel really defeated, too. I’m considering just selling all my mats, including all the account bound mats that guilds are paying for, so then I can partially blame myself for being able to not have a guild hall…. because I sold all my mats, you see?

I like GW2 so much, that in order to keep playing it, my psyche wants to put the disappointment on me. My intelligent brain knows Anet is an kitten, but if I sell off everything, I’ll have some responsibility in my own failure and that might make me feel better. Or maybe it won’t and I’ll just start playing other games… even though none are as good. On my box, I currently have Warframe, Rift, GTAV, Borderlands, Firefall, Skyforge, TERA, Landmark Beta, Dungeon Defenders, and Minecraft… none even compare to GW2 for daily entertainment, but maybe all of them together can keep me from disappointment.

/shrug

Or maybe I’ll just keep mindlessly grinding for mats I know I won’t have enough of until I’m in a wheelchair, at which point, I won’t care any more.

You guys are so right. They should never take away stuff in order to make new ideas work. They effectively took away some of what we had built and put it and all the new guild content behind a huge, thick wall, necessitating many more people to break it down than before. For 3 1/2 years, they set an expectation, then hit us with an xpac for which those reasonable expectations are just not enough. In my opinion, it’s just inconsiderate and very off-putting.

I do agree this game is worth the money, but I’ve put far more money into it than they required and I basically got a big ol’ middle finger in my face. I want them to know they have a casual player base with lots of money and time that they’re kittenting on, since they have made absolutely no statements anywhere acknowledging our existence.

Living story has NOTHING to do with guild halls. They are not part of the story. Also… at launch, they had content updates every 2 weeks… then a month… now… not so much.

I think being here from beta gives me even more reason to be annoyed because I KNOW how good we small guilds used to have it. Many new folks don’t know, so they’re totally cool with being forced into hanging in larger circles… They just expect it. I expect to be able to be as casual as I want as still be able to progress my guild and given the past 3 and a half years, I have good reason to expect that.

Xiahou,
Dungeoning was 2012. Before I quit guild leading and dealing with people in general. It’s 2015 and I’m tired of people and their petty drama and problems and general stupidity. Maybe I’m just getting old and can’t deal…
A lot of people who lead raiding guilds for 7 years in multiple games end up like me. I don’t expect everyone to understand.

I totally understand if it takes a while, but I’m not sure you understand just how long we’re talking. Have you looked at the mats? For each individual thing, they look pretty easy… but look at the bigger picture. Get with me after a few months when you realize just how many mats you need and how tired you are of having no money because you can’t sell anything… not carrots, not flax, not dust, not ore, not wood, not ecto, not lodestones… nothing but sigils… Sigils are the only reasonable income when you are a primary provider in a small guild. Maybe reevaluate how much it means at that point. Who knows… maybe in a few months, I’ll reevaluate and decide it was a piece of cake! The chances of that are super slim, though, as I have a very good idea of how much time it takes to farm these mats.

Unless you’re just buying them with real money conversions… and anyone who does that doesn’t deserve an opinion in this thread. I fully suspect my friend with the level 19 guild has put a kittenton of money into it to get it that far and he’s willing to do it because he has something to prove and people to please. I don’t. I’m in it for ME (and my family, of course).

Xiahou Mao.9701:

And again, I’ll ask.. this is different from dungeon skins how?

With dungeon skins, Legendary weapons that require dungeon tokens as a component, and the handful of other expensive weapons that require tokens via the Mystic Forge, the game launched with hundreds of skins that were unavailable to you if you chose to play solo. Why has it taken the new guild skins to get you bent out of shape over it? Why didn’t you complain about, say, the Fractal weapon skins when they launched and required a group to have a chance at?

It’s different because I can LFG any of those when I want at my whim (and I have all the dungeon skins I want except for maybe a few CoE ones because back when I was doing dungeons, NOBODY wanted to do CoE). The guild ones are behind huge mat requirements that are impossible to do whenever I want… If I start now, I’d finish… maybe a bit after my kids graduate college (My eldest is 12).

It’s totally different. I’m not talking about grouping up on occasion. I’m talking about basic requirements for guild vendors.

And I was kittened when they introduced fractals and I DID leave the game after that, but I came back because at that time, I could still get at everything I wanted even with a small guild – even fractal stuff because I DO have 4 friends in other guilds. The HOT guild content is geared for a MUCH larger guild full of people with either tons of mats, tons of gold, or no life. I DO realize the impetus for this xpac came from people who needed stuff to do with all their mats, etc…, but those people aren’t their only player base. They have a huge casual player base that they basically just told to F off. I do have a ton of mats and a good amount of gold, but all of it wouldn’t make a dent in the Restoration 2 requirements or even a big dent in Restoration 1.

You’re right, Sanity. Which makes it like every other game

Will NOT go into Guild Bank or Trove:
Alpha Seige Golem Blueprints
Arrow Cart Blueprints
Ballista Blueprints

Will go into both:
Trebuchet Blueprints
Catapult Blueprints
Flame Ram Blueprints
Superior Trebuchet Blueprints

Because of the inconsistency, I figured this is a bug. It didn’t come up under my search, so apologies if this is a duplicate.

Also… is it necessary to have so much of the holiday stuff account bound? I have like 5 piles from super adventure box in my bank and 3 in my guild bank…. takin’ up all the spaces!

kuritsutian.2987:

I thought this was about having a refuge and a guild hall to chill with family/friends… apparently this is just another complain about not being able to get shinny stuff easily -_-

Clearly, you don’t understand. But thank you for your valuable input.
This is about this GAME being a refuge where we could get all the shiny things on our OWN… without having randoms shoved down our throats. We could play at our own pace, knowing eventually, we can achieve whatever we want. They changed the very focus of their game. I can’t help it if you don’t see that.

Now, we can get scraps and are legitimately peeved.

Sure… I can still log in and spend innumerable hours in Silverwastes to get the 600 shovels I need. or in DS to get the 21,000 flax. It’s not as fun knowing I have to grind for the rest of my life (which may actually not be an exxhageration considering my age) simply to keep up with people who actually like people. It’s really rather ridiculous how they , in one fell swoop, made small guilds obsolete. If they want to get rid of their casual players, they took a huge step in the right direction. If they want to be just like all the other MMO’s, this expansion made them competitive! Grats!

When I leave other MMO’s, I never go back. I’ve always come back to GW, but… they’ve taken away my reasons for keeping them in the top of my list. I’m not the only one and I’m determined to let them know that. I WILL be heard!

Ninjeff.6510:

First of all, Who actually thinks of Guild Halls as content? Putting furniture in a building is boring, pointless, and seems like just a lack of the devs actually making content. Not only that it take tons of time and materials for what ?

I dont play mmo’s to play house. I play mmo’s for pve content, pvp content, and the experience’s that go along with that. Wish they would have just made new dungeons, fractals, more raids, another pvp map! , or pretty much anything other than this “lets play house” stuff.

GW2, being not a linear progression game and being previously casual-friendly, is all about skins or other fluff, which is what makes this game have such a high player retention value. They have effectively hidden a bunch of fluff in a guild hall a TON of casual players won’t be able to access.

There are a TON of skins you can and I can’t get because a MAX level restoration 2 guild is required to get the weaponsmith2.

I don’t even care about the play house stuff. I might after everything else was complete just for something else to do and I’m glad it’s there for those who need it. But this is about BASIC access to a ton of this expansion’s skins.

Loosmaster.8263:

I’m going to attempt to put in a support ticket requesting reimbursement for all the mats we invested and the gold to start the event. I’m not wasting my time nor mats anymore just to put more in for the next level. We’ve already pulled out of WvW over this and we’re going to go about our merry way.

Did it. I hope you get a more favorable response than I did!

milo.7198:

I’m in a small family guild. We aren’t mad about not getting a hall. That’s no big deal. But all the amenities we worked so hard for, harder than a bigger guild, like banners and weaponsmith, have been taken away. We would have been happy if Anet lets us keep what we unlocked and frozen all future progress until a guild hall was obtained.. It really stings because we got our weaponsmith and was in the progress of building it when HoT launched..
For us, its not that we don’t get a hall, its about all of our progress and work being erased..
It happened once before, when the Merit was introduced. Some things we had unlocked were taken away and we had to re-earn them. I believe it’s very wrong

I agree.
If nothing was lost, I may be less upset. I still think it’s BS to hide all the skins behind a fully maxed guild hall, though. I don’t want most of them, but there are some I’d like to have, but never will. I like to be ABLE to work for the things I want… and so far have been able to without having to be in a bigger guild.

kuritsutian.2987:

Dejavu.2349:

Grim West.3194:

There were plenty of percs for guilds before guild halls. Small guilds worked very hard for them and they were all taken away.

This.

Where they taken fully away? so all guilds lost everything? or its just gated behind the hall?

Gated behind the guild hall for some things… Other things are gated behind the rest of my natural-born life in farming mats.

Grim West.3194:

kuritsutian.2987:

Dejavu.2349:

But the thing is, their guild is not our guild. And they have zero staying power… they are not GW2-dedicated, so we don’t want to throw all our mats at their guild knowing it’s not ours and they’ll be bailing out whenever their fps-focused group of people gets bored.

Why not having them throw some mats at yours? help should be both sided if friends, no?

Why not have the devs give us back what we worked for already? Why should I have to pay to do something twice? Why is that acceptable to anyone?

Agreed!
I tried. I put in a ticket. They don’t even realize the amount of effort that was for small guilds… we didn’t even mind doing it. We were even told we’d get this or that if we got our guilds to certain levels, which I put a ton of gold into achieving… Only to find out I can’t even get a guild hall because the mobs are tuned way too high for a duo. So we have to beg for help, which I hate doing. Just to open up the guild hall… then we have the same mat requirements as guilds of 100 people… it’s punitive at best.

Grim West.3194:

There were plenty of percs for guilds before guild halls. Small guilds worked very hard for them and they were all taken away.

This.

Psion.9432:

My guild of ~10 active people has been funded to Guild Level 21, and nearly Restoration 2 on all of the points, with roughly 7 contributors. We aren’t no lifers and I could barely get 5 people for a raid last night. We just put forth the effort and don’t whine about it constantly.

If I had 10 people, I wouldn’t be here. Hell… if I had 5 active, I wouldn’t be here. But given the 4 I do have, 2 really active and myself the only real farmer, yea… HALP!
My problem is that I was never required to deal with people before HOT… I COULD do it on my own…. It was why I chose to come here instead of other games. Now that reason is gone. They have turned their game into just another MMO when it was truly something special (to me).

IntheCoconut.3497:

I can understand your pain. My friends and family created a guild when the game first started. It became evident fast that our small band would never be able to achieve a third of the content in Guild Halls for HoT, at least not on our own. We all had lives and work outside of GW2, so none of us had time to dedicate to running events or even recruiting. So we merged with another guild that had about the same number of people as ours.

It was hard to give up our guild and what had been ours for nearly 3 years, but I don’t regret it. Since joining, we’ve made new friends, we can actually do guild missions (which we never had the resources or people to do it before), and we are slowly expanding our GH. We only have about 6-10 people on at a time, but other guilds have been happy to partner with us for doing missions when we are shy a few people. Even with our small group we are now Guild LvL 15, which I know is no where near what a populated guild would would have achieved by now. But still, who is in a rush? I am enjoying the game because I get to do content that I was never able to do before, and it is fun and exciting to see what we can achieve with a tightknit group like ours.

My point is, yes, you might have to expand your horizons a little and venture out to meet new people, and maybe even give up your guild name. But you can still find a way to enjoying the game and it doesn’t require you to pour hours into recruiting and organizing or joining a 100+ member guild.

You make good points. But… I have friends who have a level 19 guild… We know them in real life, even… But the thing is, their guild is not our guild. And they have zero staying power… they are not GW2-dedicated, so we don’t want to throw all our mats at their guild knowing it’s not ours and they’ll be bailing out whenever their fps-focused group of people gets bored. I think it’s already starting to unravel.

If we won’t even join a real-life friend’s guild (people we actually DO like as people), there’s like zero chance of us joining someone else’s. Admittedly, my husband is even more anti-people than I am, so we’re kind of swimming upstream.

We just want the old GW2 back… Our refuge. I know I keep saying that… our refuge… but we LOVED this game. It brings tears to my eyes now as I typed that past tense… that my love affair is over.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Dejavu.2349:

ProtoGunner.4953:

A guild hall is for a guild, not for 3 players. Also, the guild hall is not much content, it’s just a huge area with nothing in it (well with fluff in it if it’s filled with… fluff like a chair you can’t even sit on).

Besides the +% food the tavern guy gives me, and cheap transportation to the Magus Falls, I don’t need it.

The skins. The entire purpose of this game behind a wall of friends I don’t have. If it was all just a place to run around, I wouldn’t give a rat’s kitten . It’s not about buffs (though 10% xp, karma, etc is nice when you’re leveling or farming… It’s about the skins we won’t have. It’s about the principle of the thing…

Content gating can suck my butt.

Not every game and game’s content can satisfy everyone’s need, deal with it. This is an MMO and it follows mostly the guidlines of an MMO. Why can’t people accept this? I don’t like those skins actually, but yes, this is an argument.

The reason I play this game is because it wasn’t just another MMO… until now. It was different, a beautiful refuge.

Why can’t you accept that not everyone loves the guidelines of other MMO’s? I’ve played them all and am SO freaking tired of their linear progression models and requisite guilds and reputation grinds, etc… blah blah…

There are many reasons to play an MMO even when you’re a solitary soul. Just think about the total amount of time you can put into a non-MMO. Skyrim gets the most hours of any non-MMO, but most others… what? 40 hours? If you’re lucky. I put 3 years of hours (not even kidding) into Wow before I quite after Cata. I am 2406 hours into GW2. That’s over 100 full days. Clearly, I have staying power… when I have viable reasons to stay.

Morfedel.4165:

Dejavu.2349:

maddoctor.2738:

2-3 people aren’t even a full party you can’t call them a “guild”

I’ve been able to since launch. If they didn’t want small guilds, they could have put a required number of members like many other games.

And now effectively they have lol

Not really, though… Effectively, yes, definitely, but as long as they let you make a guild with one or 2 or 4 people, they should let you progress it. Scaling required mats wouldn’t work because then people would just kick everyone, level up low, then invite everyone back… They could make it a tiered thing… It costs X with 10 people, then you have to give more for every 10 more people. I don’t have a solution, but they obviously weren’t thinking about small guilds AT ALL. It’s just a stupid t amount of mats for a small guild (I could easily field mats if this were scaled for 10-20 people – I have a lot of time and money), but full guild hall completion is scaled for a guild of at least 50-100 people. I don’t have time or money for that.

I think anyone who doesn’t see this isn’t in a small guild and hasn’t looked at the full materials list (or just doesn’t care). But when it comes down to it, My opinion is just as important as any other player’s.

maddoctor.2738:

And they “fixed” that with Heart of Thorns.

But aside from that, do you really “quit” because they took the guild banners away? Were they so important that it was the sole reason to enjoy the game? So you are leaving for a couple of nearly useless buffs?

It’s not the banners… Though I do like those. It’s the skins, mostly, but also buffs, etc…
They’re gating content behind a wall of friends. I’m not a user… I’m not going to join some guild just so I can use them, knowing full well I don’t give a crap. I’ve been able to do everything on my own and I want to be able to now. It’s why I play this game and give them money.

ProtoGunner.4953:

A guild hall is for a guild, not for 3 players. Also, the guild hall is not much content, it’s just a huge area with nothing in it (well with fluff in it if it’s filled with… fluff like a chair you can’t even sit on).

Besides the +% food the tavern guy gives me, and cheap transportation to the Magus Falls, I don’t need it.

The skins. The entire purpose of this game behind a wall of friends I don’t have. If it was all just a place to run around, I wouldn’t give a rat’s kitten . It’s not about buffs (though 10% xp, karma, etc is nice when you’re leveling or farming… It’s about the skins we won’t have. It’s about the principle of the thing…

Content gating can suck my butt.

maddoctor.2738:

2-3 people aren’t even a full party you can’t call them a “guild”

I’ve been able to since launch. If they didn’t want small guilds, they could have put a required number of members like many other games.

Riku.4821:

I claimed my guild hall with 5 people first try. And we got the first tavern upgrade easily. My guild is 50 people with 42 or so inactive people and 6 active people. 2 are on so and so.
The guild hall things are perfectly fine as is, and sadly not much can be done to stop large guilds abuse it.

https://goo.gl/ZXBiva
Have you seen the mats? These are finished mats, so some of them take other things to make and this list is ONLY for the first level of restoration. There are a veritable kittenton of mats for level 2 – virtually unattainable for a guild of 2 active and 2 more slackers.

Valentinus.3412:

I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.

You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!

The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.

If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.

And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.

You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.

/rant

I’m so tired of this argument. I’ve been playing GW2 since launch and they have inarguably made a HUGE change to the very point of their game and content and, in doing so, have completely annihilated the reasons I was playing this game. It’s completely within reason for me to be upset. I’m not speaking for YOU or for people who actually like hanging out in big guilds. I do not and have had no need to until this huge let-down of an expansion.

I think Anet underestimated the number of people who keep coming back to their game BECAUSE it was very casual-friendly. It is no longer so unless you are able to completely ignore the content you won’t ever see (like Weaponsmith 2 – skins I can never have because Anet put them behind a wall of friends I don’t have (or want). I can’t ignore that and am stating my valid argument for why this sucks. Of course people who are in big guilds won’t get this at all – I don’t expect you to.

Kraggy.4169:

Small guilds lost everything they had because HOT makes it nigh on impossible for them to re-earn what they already HAD!

Exactly.
Small guilds never mind working harder and taking longer – we always have had to – but this is a lifetime commitment. Like…to gather all the mats for full restoration 2, it would take me the entire forseeable future.

I am a huge GW2 fan – I’ve brought many people to the game and have been playing since beta, but the reasons I’ve had to come back to this game between every other MMO are pretty much gone.

I’ve played every major MMO from it’s launch through it’s content at launch. Some games (SWTOR, for instance) I get done with all available content before they’ve even finished the intended starting content, so I leave… and I don’t come back. Ever. Other games take a while longer (like WoW expansions, which I stopped buying after Cataclysm or Rift), but when I left, I left. It was done. Finished. Over. GW2 has been my mainstay since it’s launch and, sadly, it won’t be for much longer due to the fact that I can no longer experience all it’s content without being in a guild. A big guild, at that.

The primary reason I kept coming back to GW2 was that I could see all of it’s content without having to deal with people (I’m always a guild/raid leader in other games and that just wears me down) and still be as relevant as I was when I started a break – sometimes a couple of weeks, sometimes a couple of months; I knew the same great game would be waiting for me when I came back. And I put a lot of hard-earned cash into this game because I loved it so much and it earned it.

That has changed and this is why:
https://goo.gl/ZXBiva
I made a little spreadsheet of the required materials just for Resotration 1-affiliated builds in the Guild Hall. This isn’t nearly a quarter of the materials needed to get to the actual content like Weaponsmith 2’s, which require completion of nearly all builds in restoration 2 and a guild level of 40.

So, basically, not only can my small guild not even claim it’s own Guild Hall with it’s 2 or 3 people (family – pretty much the only people I can stand any more), but we have to get to guild level 40 and get an insane amount of materials – like completely impossible within the expected lifetime of this game (my kids will be through college before I was able to grind out all materials)- in order to fully experience the game.

I’m done.
I’ll play until I leave (again) for another game, but this time, I’ll have a WHOLE LOT LESS reason to come back. Right now, the MMO field is pretty sparse and dry, so I’m good for a while…. But I’m extremely disappointed that my refuge game is now just another game in a pile of grindy games that require I pretend to like other people. I just won’t do it. Unlike some people, I’m not a pretender… I really am incapable of feigning interest any more.

Cletus Van Damme.2795:

It’s possible they’re trying to pick up the massive Wildstar crowd with HoT, it’s a courageous strategy I hope it works out for them.

There was a massive Wildstar crowd? WHEN?!!! Because we hit the roster boss pretty hard at launch. Is their F2P Model good enough to have attracted that many more players than it lost for having NO fluff and no content between their 20-man and imposssible-to-feild-for-nearly-every-guild- 40-man?

Wildstar is a first class example of why GW2 was amazing before HOT. Now that it’s joined the already too plentiful pile of games that require guilds to fully experience content, it’s not the same refuge it used to be and doesn’t have nearly the staying power for me and those like me who came here specifically because it was a game with a ton of things to do that I could do on my own while still knowing I’m seeing the whole picture and getting as much out of the game as anyone else.

I totally understand people’s frustration when others use an exploit to quickly advance or attain items and then the game developers don’t roll back their progress, but that is not what this is. This is people having choices.

Overall, Anet has done the best job of any game I’ve played (pretty much all of them) of evening things out… per hour of dedicated playing/crafting/grinding/etc… gold and xp gains are relatively equal. The differences are primarily how much downtime YOU choose to have between events that offer XP. You can take it slow like I am; gaining Tyria mastery solely by running toons that leveled in holiday events or PVP trains through Tyria getting hero points, Waypoints, gathering, etc… (which is likely the SLOWEST method) or you can spam Run COF with a group of like-minded people (arguably the fastest).

It’s a personal choice that I, for one, feel lucky to have – many games wouldn’t give you a choice. Think about rep gains in linear MMO’s… Being forced into taking particular paths is stupid. Hell, if you wanted to, you could farm herbs to get all your mastery… there are gains everywhere. I love it!