Guild Wars 2

Korsbaek.9803:

there is just one thing your forgetting to take into account atleast if we go to wvw or spvp. Thats the fact the condition trapper does a lot less damage, given the fact that conditions stay on the target less, curing with aktive skills and/or automated skills that cleans each 10 sec, so much of the condition damage is lost but the direct damage is not lost there.
So it will kill the conditions a lot compared to pure damage then

That’s actually a good point that I hadn’t considered because I don’t do sPvP or WvWvW very often. But the problem of balancing for the different gameplay modes is that each gameplay mode has its own meta, and balancing perfectly for one often means making things unbalanced for another (either OP or UP).

So then, taking into account the potential for more significantly reduced condition damage vs. direct damage, it would probably be best to split the trap skills, especially the proposed “Seismic Trap” or whatever, and make it so that the base direct damage is less in sPvP and WvWvW gameplay modes, especially when traited. It may be possible to simply split the trait itself, so that in sPvP and WvWvW the trait boosts direct damage less than it boosts condition damage.

As I said, the numbers would probably have to be tweaked a bit, especially if splitting the skills and/or the trait. But excellent point, and thank you for bringing it up.

No one has anything to say to this at all? Not even a “this idea sucks, I hate it”?

I should have posted in Ranger forum… would have at least gotten a flame or a troll.

I don’t mind traps being in skirmishing if they would make traps scale more evenly with direct damage vs. condition damage. But yes, I think our traits could use some more consideration and rework.

Sorry for poor formatting. If anyone knows how to do better formatting on these boards, please PM me with some tips. Thanks.

Now if we assume that we modify Trap Potency as I’ve recommended, that we get the new “Seismic Trap” as well, and that a trap ranger (either build type) takes the two most damaging traps available to them, plus Frost Trap, then we get the following total approximate damage per trap set (ignoring DPS calculations related to recharge/cooldown times).

Current Condition Trapper (traited):          8283
Current Power/Crit Trapper (traited):        3507
Modified Condition Trapper (traited):        7484
Modified Power/Crit Trapper (traited):      7100

Based on this, it would suggest that using my modifications would result in a slight damage decrease for Condition Trappers (about 10% reduction to total damage). These numbers also suggest that the Power/Crit build with these changes could then deal total damage roughly on par with the new damage output of the Conditions Trapper (only 1.3% lower damage output).

Now remeber that the above calculations assume 2600 AR on the target. If the target has different AR, then the direct damage numbers will change. Particularly, against a target with lower AR the Power/Crit build would deal a larger amount of direct damage. For example, let’s say that a target has only 1900 AR instead of 2600. In such a case the damage for the Condition Trapper would increase, but only a minimal amount, while the Power/Crit build would have a Seismic Trap that could deal up to 6344 damage by itself instead of the 4636 calculated above. If we assume that the average medium level of AR at end-game is approximately 2200, then we would want to aim for a total damage output from Power/Crit Trapper to be approximately 7500 give or take a couple hundred to balance with the Condition Trapper build. Using the base value of 188, the build would do approximately 7943 against a target with 2200 AR. This being the case, a slight decrease to the base value for Seismic Trap may be justified (perhaps a 177 base instead of 188). In any case, some fine-tuning of the numbers would be required to make these changes fully balanced to the current game meta.

Currently, the game has exactly 20 Utility Slot skills for each class. Adding this new trap for Ranger would push them to having 21 such skills, so it may be reasonable to remove a differnt Utility skill, or to consolidate two utility skills together. Unfortunately, I cannot think of a single current Utility Skill that would be reasonable to remove, nor can I think of any two such skills that I think could be reasonably consolidated without making the new skill OP. So the question then becomes, is it really such an issue to have 21 available Utility skills, instead of the normal 20? In practice, the only real differnece is that the additional skill gives the Ranger just a little bit more possible variety for workable builds, but other classes would not be granted the same minor increase to build variety, and players would not be happy with such a disparity. As such, I think the better choice would be to try to find ways to create a new Utility skill for each class that would be balanced, but would increase potential build variety, and intorduce those new skills at the same time as my proposed changes. I do not have any proposals to make regarding the sorts of Utility skills that might be warranted or welcome for other classes, but I am sure that those who regularly play those other classes could come up with some ideas.

So, that’s my 2cp worth of suggestion. Of course, improvements to Ranger Pet AI should be, in my opinion, a higher priority.

TL;DR? Go back to the top and read the very first paragraph for a basic summary.

First, let’s address some basic assumptions for these calculations. Assume a glass cannon build for both Condi and Power/Crit. Assume the Condi build has 1916 Condition Damage stat, 966 Power, 41% Crit Chance, 30% Crit Dmg (full rabid, undead runes). Assume that the Power/Crit build has 0 Condition Damage, 2551 Power, 64% Crit Chance, 104% Crit Damage (full zerk, ranger runes). Assume average damage increase for direct damage pulses due to crit. Assume that the Power/Crit build is 30/30 build so add +30% Condition Duration. Assume that all durations are rounded to nearest 0.25 seconds. Assume 2600 AR on the target (so numbers are roughly consistent with tooltips). And finally, assume that target(s) are hit by all pulses (best case scenario).

Now then, let’s show numbers for the condition build first. Please note that I did not take fully into account the way condition duration modifiers apply from, say Sigil of Agony, and as such these figures are approximate (actual condition damage numers are probably slightly lower than indicated).

Effect                                             Flame          Viper's          Spike          Frost          Seismic
Direct Dmg (untraited)               307               203                68              N/A            789
Condi Dmg (untraited)               807              1102                 2904         N/A            N/A
Total Dmg (untraited)                1114            1305               2972          N/A            789
Direct Dmg (traited)                  307               203                68              N/A            789
Condi Dmg (traited)                   1614            2204              5808          N/A             N/A
Total Dmg (traited)                     1921            2407              5876          N/A             789
Direct Dmg (mod traited)           537              355               119             N/A            1381
Condi Dmg (mod traited)          1412            1928              5082           N/A            N/A
Total Dmg (mod traited)            1949            2283              5201           N/A           1381
CC Duration (untraited)             N/A            N/A               2                 1                 2
CC Duration (traited)                  N/A             N/A              4                  2                4
CC Duration (mod traited)         N/A             N/A              3.5               1.75            3.5
Combo Field                                  Fire              Poison         N/A             Ice              N/A

Now the numbers for the Power/Crit build. Again, I did not take fully into account the way condition duration modifiers apply from, say Sigil of Agony, and as such these figures are approximate (actual condition damage numbers are probably not affected in this case for the Power build, as no such duration modifiers are used).

Effect                                             Flame          Viper's          Spike          Frost          Seismic
Direct Dmg (untraited)              1080             723               241              N/A           2649
Condi Dmg (untraited)               328              252               765              N/A           N/A
Total Dmg (untraited)                1400             975               1006            N/A           2649
Direct Dmg (traited)                  1080             723               241              N/A           2649
Condi Dmg (traited)                   656               504              1530             N/A           N/A
Total Dmg (traited)                     1736            1227             1771            N/A           2649
Direct Dmg (mod traited)         1890            1265              422              N/A           4636
Condi Dmg (mod traited)          574              441               1339            N/A           N/A
Total Dmg (mod traited)            2464            1706             1761            N/A           4636
CC Duration (untraited)            N/A             N/A              2.5               1.25            2
CC Duration (traited)                N/A             N/A              4.5                2.25           4
CC Duration (mod traited)       N/A             N/A              4                  2                3.5

Preemtive TL;DR — I propose that Trap Potency be modified to boost direct damage in addition to condition duration, but to reduce the boost amount to +75% instead of the current +100%. I also propose to add a new Utility skill, a trap, that is based on direct damage rather than condition damage, and has Knockdown, but no combo field. The intention is to make a viable option for Ranger Power/Crit to be capable of ranged AoE damage if they wish to, while maintaining balance (insofar as the game is currently balanced), and with minimal impact on the potential of the current Conditions Trapper builds. Adding the new Utility skill to the Ranger class would justify adding one new Utility skill to each of the other classes, but I have no proposal for that aspect. Reasoning behind the proposal, and details of possible implementation and game impact are given in the long version below.

It is well known at this point that one particularly effective and viable Ranger build has been the Condition Trapper. This is improved now that Rangers have the option of their own Blast Finisher to interact with trap combo fields. The thing that has always bothered me about it, however, is that the damage traps (Flame, Viper’s, Spike) are all considerably more powerful for a Condition Damage build than for a Power/Crit build, to the extent that a Condition Damage build will deal roughly twice as much damage with traps as a Power/Crit build would (assuming both are geared glass cannon). This is even more the case due to the effects of Trap Potency, because that trait increases the Condition Duration from traps by +100% of base, but does not modify direct damage except to speed up recharge rate.

This isn’t wholly unexpected. The nature and names of the traps are suggestive that they would be primarily condition based attack skills. Even in GW1 the traps were predominantly condition damage skills. The problem is that this limits the ranger’s viable build options for AoE damage, if that is the direction the player wants to go. For high AoE damage output we can go melee with Greatsword with a Power/Crit build, or we can try to go Longbow and use Barrage, but that being only one skill and with a long cooldown isn’t exactly powerful for sustained AoE (plus the retaliation issue), or we can take Condition Trapper. If a player wants to use Ranger because they like the flavor of the class, and they want to remain ranged because they don’t like melee play style, but they still want effective AoE damage output (not spectacular necessarily, but acceptably decent), then that really only leaves them with the Condition Trapper as a build choice.

What I would like to see is an increase to the viarety of viable builds for a Ranger that wants to be able to do AoE at range. Again, I’m not talking about OP AoE, I’m only talking about moderate AoE for build variety. Following are a couple of suggestions that I think could work to make that happen.

First, Trap Potency should be modified to increase direct damage in addition to condition duration. Along with this I propose reducing both benefits down to +75% instead of +100%. Frost Trap Cill would, for example have a duration of only 1.75 seconds instead of 2 seconds.

My second suggestion would be to add a new Utility skill, a trap, that is predominantly direct damage rather than condition, plus a Knockdown effect. Let’s say we call this new skill something like “Concussion Trap”, “Sonic Trap”, or “Seismic Trap” (I don’t really like those names, but they reflect the direction I’m thinking). This new trap would deal 3 ticks of direct damage, with a Knockdown on the last tick (last tick instead of first to prevent the knockdown from causing victims to automatically suffer all three damage pulses). Direct damage per pulse from the trap would be a bludgeoning/blunt force sort of damage, so no damage contition such as bleed is conceptually justified, but the knockdown is justified. The trap would have standard trap range and radius, 20 second cooldown, no combo field (none are conceptually justified, and Rangers would have to choose to take the trade-off of direct damage and knockdown in place of a combo field), damage per pulse of perhaps 188 base (level 80, 916 Power) and untraited, and Knockdown duration of 2 seconds (this is the average duration for currently existant knockdown effects).

So let’s look at some numbers for basic trap skills, and please note that these are not completely exact. I have tried to use reasonably valid numbers and calculations, but there are some minor approximations. My goal is not to give a fully exact breakdown, but instead to give a close approximation in order to show a general relative view of the possibilities.

I know that both suggestions were a bit off topic from the original post, but…

I really like the idea of being able to tweak pet stats regardless of pet choice through some sort of armor or collar item or similar. Either that or an evolution sort of system like in GW1. Just something that would allow me to modify my pets just a little.

I also love the idea of being able to program my own AI for my pet. I’ve written AI designs for companion NPCs in other games, such as Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and the Gambit system in Final Fantasy XII, and really I like having that sort of control over my companion’s AI based on conditional triggers. That would go a long way to improving pet performance in content where they are decidedly problematic (like dungeons). But a system like that would be hard for a lot of people to learn, and I expect a lot of people would be lazy about it too (call me a cynic if you like).

But back to the original topic, pets are definitely not that spectacular; in general I mean. Certain pets are quite good when properly controlled, but the system on the whole, and the “average” pet has so many options that are lacking in so many ways, that I have to wonder why they bothered to create that level of variety if they weren’t going to make them all reasonably useful. There are a few that are decent for various purposes, and those few are used all the time by virtually every ranger. The rest are just mediocre (at best), and are “throw away” pets to use Xsorus’s phrase. When the game is designed so that our unique class mechanic is based on these pets, having a good half of them be so un-useful that no one wants to ever use them (or even tame them unless they are a completionist) is just not acceptable.

Having said that though, I really think the pet AI system needs to be improved at a slightly higher priority than improving individual pets or pet families to make them more desirable.

I’m pretty happy with these changes. While I see a lot of posts complaining that stealth isn’t useful in PvE, I have to say, it actually can come in handy sometimes. It provides a means of improved escape, that can allow pet to retake aggro, and master regain range. And the synergy with remorseless is also welcome.

And I don’t see how people can say that our damage output is reduced by this change, as the vuln was moved to Rapid Fire. This means vuln is harder to block or fully interrupt, and has slightly shorter cooldown. Our vuln isn’t gone, just moved and spread out a little a more, and had duration increased and cooldown decreased. Yes, our front-loaded damage is reduced a little, especially since our first salvo of Rapid Fire doesn’t get to take advantage of full vuln, but overall DPS over time isn’t significantly different.

I do feel that LB still could use improvement, and general build variety (in terms of useful, viable builds), and usefulness/desirability for groups and dungeons both still need some improvement. But considering most of us weren’t expecting any real changes to the class for another month yet, I am very pleased with the fact that ANet chose to make these changes now.

Combined with the change to remorseless, plus the vuln on Rapid Fire, I actually like this change. The net effect is that Hunter’s Shot is now useful for more than just an occasional Vuln spike, it can now be used to improve survivability, regain range, and with remorseless, reset Opening Strike for additional vuln. Plus the vuln on rapid fire now means that we can maintain a higher level of vuln for better frequency than we could manage before. And considering we weren’t expecting much of anything until the late August patch, I’m happy to see them trying to make LB better without waiting.

This is still not good enough to really fix LB in my opinion, and some further improvement tweaks would be welcome, but I think it is a step in a good direction, and I do like the weapon better now.

I still want to see an improvement to trap direct damage for power builds though, like changing Trapper’s Expertise to boost both direct damage as well as condition duration. I really want to see power trapper build be effective for AoE like condi traps are (doesn’t even have to be that good, but close to that good would be nice).

The one thing I will say about the change to LB skills though, is that I now have to relearn the best opening combat sequence. Opening with Hunter’s Shot is now pointless. I’ve been opening with Rapid Fire instead, but I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be better to open with auto attack at max range, then Hunter’s Shot, then Rapid Fire. That would give 5 vuln from auto attack, reset opening strike and boost pet’s close speed, 15 vuln from Rapid fire (5 from the reset opening strike), and 5 vuln from pet attack. Time to experiment with rotations I guess.

stof.9341:

You could do :

In PvE, when you apply a stack of condition that goes above the cap, the stack that is dropped will instantly apply all it’s damage potential at once.

Should be rather balanced since as far as I know, ANet didn’t balance a single class or build with the condition cap in mind.

I think that is basically what Nretep was suggesting. The problem I see there is that it could result in extreme damage spikes once the stack caps are filled, especially with Burning, which has very high damage numbers when full duration. It might be more reasonable to instead calculate the remaining damage from the stack that has the least duration remaining on it, then drop that stack (the one with least remaining duration) and deal that stack’s remaining pro-rated damage all at once.

Eddie G.8731:

I’m kindof a newb, so sorry if I’m over-simplifying this…but is it possible the problem isn’t that the game is broken because you can’t put conditions on a creature, but that a creature already has conditions on it and you are unwilling to adapt?

When I’m fighting a big monster, I’ll glance up at the conditions it’s suffering from. If it’s already suffering from a condition, I don’t use a skill that inflicts that condition. If a creature is suffering from every condition I can give it, I switch over to my daggers and start stabbing away! Is that harder to do at higher levels or something?

That’s all well and good for a build that has that kind of flexibility, but most condi builds are not flexible in that way. A build that is designed to rely on conditions can certainly stop using those conditions, but then they loose the vast majority of their damage. It doesn’t matter if they loose it because of stack caps, or lose it because of not using it because of the stack caps, either way, they still lose that damage. There are not so many viable hybrid builds out there that just anyone can choose not to use their conditions and still expect to remain effective. The point is that condi builds should not loose half or more of their damage potential just because there is another condi build attacking the same target with the same conditions. Players should not be punished for grouping, and group overall damage should not be reduced just because two characters use the same type of condition heavily. And the fact that condi builds suffer from such damage reduction, while direct damage builds do not, is grossly unjust.

matemaster.2168:

IMHO
condition damage was not designed as primary source of damage for any class
Its like seasoning on steak
If you try to build primary condition damage build it would be like taking lots of seasoning and then add little of steak
It just wont work

That isn’t correct. If this were the case, then condi builds in general would be considerably weak, and the Necro would not be billed as a master of conditions. Based on the number of skills that deal conditions of one sort or another, combined with the fact that most such skills deal more condition damage than direct damage regardless of build, it seems pretty clear that the devs intended for condi builds to be a significant option in build design. Not to mention the fact that some classes that have very few viable builds to begin with because of lack of skill balance, often are best when used as a condi build. And even beyond that, with classes that have more options to choose from for viable builds, condi builds are often among the most powerful for PvE. The Necromancer alone has the ability to stack 25 bleeds single handed if they choose, even as a hybrid build. The Ele can inflict constant burning single handed if they choose, a chaos Mesmer with staff can inflict major condi damage. A condi traps Ranger is one of the only viable builds for Ranger. Condi Eng can be highly effective and valued in dungeons.

I personally see two problems with conditions mechanics in-game. First, the damage from a high-condi build in solo scenarios often outstrips direct raw damage builds, except against objects (which are immune). And second, the deminishing returns and overall damage loss that is suffered when more than one condi build character focuses on the same target (as happens frequently in DEs, and Dungeon PUGs).

The game was supposed to encourage informal grouping and provide methods of synergy between multiple characters to reward group efforts, hence the combo system. But the way conditions mechanics work, condi builds are actually punished for grouping, not rewarded, because of the way condition stacking is handled. For example, take any Group DE with a Champion: If you have say 3+ warriors all built for raw direct damage and little to no conditions, they all get full damage effect, and adding an additional warrior that is built for raw direct damage, the new warrior will also get full damage effect, and the previous ones will maintain their full damage as well. On the other hand, if you have an Ele against the same target that is built for constant Burning condition, and then you add in another character that uses Burning as well (say a chaos staff Mesmer), then the new character looses all of their Burning damage, and the overall damage output of the group is less than the sum of its parts. This isn’t acceptable. And despite the fact that the devs stated months ago that they were looking at ways to improve conditions and condi builds, nothing has changed.

OP’s suggestion of adding a new automatic condition that triggers when other conditions are in full force isn’t half bad, but I think it fails to address some of the general problems with conditions overall. While it would help in terms of condition stacking from multiple sources, I’m not sure it goes far enough in that regard. I, instead, would like to see condition caps scale based on the power and difficulty of the target. So trash MOBs would probably remain unchanged, because they die so quickly already anyway, while Veterans could allow 1.5 sets of stacking (that is, intensity stack cap increased to 37, and duration stacks would add a second stack of intensity at half damage once full duration cap was achieved), and Champions would have their cap increased to double, while targets that increase their HP based on the number of players attacking them could also have increased condition stacking beyond double once they reach a certain HP increase threshold.

That would make conditions probably a bit OP at that point, so reducing base condition damage for skills a little probably would be justified. Since condi damage often is superior to raw direct damage when solo anyway, a slight reduction in condi power overall at the baseline probably isn’t a bad idea anyway.

Then, to address the issues of condi builds having almost zero effectiveness against objects compared to direct damage builds, the devs could implement a system where the raw direct damage from any skill that deals condi damage is increased against objects proportionate to roughly 50% of the condi damage that is ignored.

So I haven’t been in Straits of Devastation in quite a while. But I decided to take my level 76 Necro through there for a bit for world completion tasks. I’m trying to get my last skill point site in the zone at Cathedral of Glorious Victory and am getting wiped out by Veteran Risen Acolytes.

It seems that in the 03/26/2013 patch (according to the wiki) they made these guys able to summon allies. In and of itself, not necessarily a problem. But when I was there today, they seem to be able to summon as many as 10 allies each! Or at least that is the highest number I saw before death.

This seems incredibly excessive to me. Aside from the fact that a lot of critters in this zone have exceptionally large aggro radii, especially risen acolytes and veteran risen acolytes, there is also the issue that even if you can get one of them by themselves (to start), and do not get adds from any of the others in the area, they can summon their own army of adds. It got to the point that at my best, against a single Veteran Risen Acolyte and his minions, with my Flesh Golem at full HP to start, and using my best damage skills, and evading actively the larger attacks, and using full HP, plus heals, plus vampirics, plus full bar of DS, with fully upgraded and level-appropriate equipment, I still went to Downed state before getting the main target down below 25% health. And that is with fully focused fire on the veteran specifically.

After multiple attempts and more than a little repair costs, I concluded that it is simply not possible for me, with my current build and player skill level (which I consider not terrible), to solo these guys. This is a problem, because I can solo pretty much any/every other veteran I’ve ever come across in the game with this build, and a few Champions as well. I understand that the devs may have wanted the Cathedral of Glorious Victory to be a tougher battle, but really, having 3+ MOBs that each are among the most powerful veterans I’ve ever seen and not being part of an event just seems entirely too difficult for a single skill point.

So the question I have is this: Are these guys bugged and summoning way more minions than they should be, or are they working as intended (in which case, why are they intended to be so difficult)?

1. Rework and improve Longbow, and the direct damage of Traps and Harpoon Gun so that a power/crit build is actually viable. If I choose to go LB and Traps with power/crit, my ability to kill a group of trash MOBs should not be cut in half compared to Axe/Torch and Traps with condi build! Similarly, if I’m underwater and using Harpoon Gun for range, my total overall damage as a power/crit build should not be substantially less than a condi build. In other words, I should not be forced to melee range (and melee weapons) for half-effective damage output with a power/crit build.

2. Improve pet AI to make them at least a little smarter and better trained, allow them to actually hit a moving target a reasonable amount of the time without requiring them to have a significant speed advantage over the target, and give pets some means to survive massive AoE, such as the ability to dodge, or flat AoE damage mitigation, and/or an AI ability to recognize (quickly) that they are in a danger zone, find the shortest route out of that danger, and act to leave the danger.

3. The ability to have at least partial control over the cosmetic appearance of pets, as well as over their overall stat balance. If I want a feline that has good survivability, at a cost of weaker damage output, I should be able to get that, at least in PvE and Dungeons (in sPvP, tPvP, and WvWvW I understand the need for players to be able to tell the basic abilities of a pet based on its appearance, but in PvE and Dungeons it is purely cosmetic, and I want more control). One way to possibly achieve this would be to implement a pet evolution system along similar lines to what was available in GW1.

I think that pet AI improvement would go a long way to help out beginner players just trying to get used to managing their pet, but the idea that having greater control would be too difficult in terms of the skill floor is just nonsense. I offer you the ele attunement mechanic as an example: proper use requires solid knowledge of and situational control with 20 individual skills, 4 attunement swaps, and 20 cooldowns to track (ignoring slot skills), and people manage to figure it out. Or compare to other games that don’t limit the number of skills available at any given time, but make all class skills available and usable on clickable skill bars (I’m sure you can all think of at least one or two games like that), and people seemed to do OK there too.

I really would love to see an improvement to the AI, but honestly, the idea that beginners wouldn’t be able to cope with more pet control is just insulting.

Nerfing shortbow because longbow isn’t attractive is simply the stupidest thing I think I have ever heard of. Rangers had one good weapon, a couple of mediocre ones, and one bad one, and in order to make more people willing to play the bad one they nerf the good one? And LB does not need a range boost, it needs better damage and utility potential. That would make it more attractive, and people like me who REALLY, REALLY want to play LB might actually do so. Simply unbelievable that they thought this was a good move!

If they don’t think they can give pets more control commands (that don’t require utility skill slots), then they need to improve the pet AI so that it isn’t such an annoying thing to have along. I love the idea of having a pet, but I hate the fact that they can be such a liability if anything goes remotely wrong, and I fail to see how the current issues of learning to control a pet with such atrocious AI is easy for beginners. And for that matter, if they are so concerned about having classes be easy for beginners to learn to use to best potential, then why the really high skill level needed for proper use of ele attunements (for example)?

They need to do more/better than just consolidate longbow skills to help out power builds. I would LOVE to play a power/crit LB ranger, with a feline pet and power/crit traps. That is what I have always wanted to play. But right now that simply is just a very bad idea. Feline pet is far too quick to die if you don’t go heavy BM, traps deal half as much damage with pure power/crit compared to pure condi, and LB power/crit in general is one of the weakest directions a ranger can go right now, and has been more or less since the beginning. Viable build variety in general would be great to have with the ranger class, especially if it will let me play a ranger with the weapon set, stats, skills, and pets that I really want to without feeling completely weak and useless, but I think it will take a lot more than a small rework of LB skills.

As for the pet damage nerf, I’m not that unhappy about it. I’ve never wanted to rely heavily on my pets for damage output. You really can’t rely on them too much in PvE and dungeons anyway because they die so quickly (unless you go with bears, which have low damage anyway, or are very good at micromanaging them), and if something does go wrong, then you’ve just lost a big chunk of your DPS which wasn’t that great to begin with. I can completely understand why other people are unhappy though, considering one of our exceptionally few decent builds is full BM.

I started getting bored and annoyed with ranger months ago, but already full equipment set. I had changed from the build I really wanted to use and love because it was always weak, and switched to condition trapper, which worked out OK in its way, but just wasn’t what I really wanted. Since then I’ve spent a great deal more time playing an S/D ele and a necro (power/crit with axe/focus and dagger/warhorn). While neither one is the bow ranger I really wanted from the start and still want even now, both are superior to the ranger as it currently exists in the game.

Then there is this latest patch, which, while improving my necro build a bit, actually made ranger even worse. And then when you take the OP’s points regarding gearing into account, it just seems totally worthless for anyone to start working on a ranger, or to try and rework an existing ranger to adjust to the new meta. Until the game actually has something useful and meaningful for rangers that makes them fun and useful, I just don’t see the point. Even if the devs actually do make considerable improvements to the class to make it become worth playing regularly again, there is still the high probability that it would require rebuilding and regrearing, so why bother to do so now?

As others on these forums have pointed out repeatedly, even before the patch, there simply is nothing that the rangers can do that cannot be achieved by other classes as well or better, and that just isn’t worth it when all we get are pets (pets that we have no control over the stats or evolution of, and that die so horribly easily). And with this new patch, and the nerf to shortbow (admittedly useful in sPvP, but solidly detrimental in very nearly every other game mode), the class is now worse off overall than it was before, and the minor changes to traits and other skills simply goes no where near far enough to make up for it.

The way I see it, the only thing that will help is a major rework of the basics of the class and its skills to give the class something unique that is good and useful (as opposed to the liability that pets can be), plus the ability to perform at least 1-2 roles as well as other classes (note, not better than, but as well as). And of course, that would likely result in more issues regarding gear sets. Why should anyone work toward a legendary or ascended gear for a build knowing that it will never be as good as any other class, and that once the class is finally updated may require a totally new build and gear set anyway? Spend time and money on a class that has always had problems since launch and has never had any real improvements despite numerous promises from the devs? I’m sorry, but no thank you. Honestly ArenaNet is lucky I still play at all at this point (though I do enjoy my necro reasonably well), and I certainly have no intention of buying gems anytime in the near future. And all of this is really unfortunate, because the game has such great potential.

Rangers currently have no real purpose in most structured group formats. We simply do not have enough to offer that cannot be achieved by others (often more easily). I let rangers into my groups because I am not obsessed with being top of the leaderboards, or clearing a dungeon as fast as possible, and I’m instead more focused on having fun with a group of people that have good attitudes and want to have fun too.

I’m still waiting for the great changes to Ranger that were promised months ago. What have we seen? Minor improvements to spirits that aren’t really that spectacular, nerf of our only exceptional weapon without corresponding buffs to our crappy weapons, no love for non-conditions build concepts, minor improvements to pet stats, followed quickly by a slight nerf to them, and minor improvement to pet AI that still isn’t good enough. Did I miss any other so-called “major” changes? The devs really need to stop making blanket balance changes that help balance in sPvP and WvWvW and make things worse in PvE and dungeons. And AI for pets (and minions, etc.), although slightly improved, still is not good enough to be remotely feasible without micromanaging.

I’ll be happier when I can play the Ranger I want to play — power/crit longbow with feline pets, focused on bow damage, not BM — and have the build actually be at least “average” (give or take) compared to other damage builds of both ranger and other classes. That would be nice. But I digress.

Getting back to the OP’s issue and question, I personally allow Rangers because I choose not to be particularly competitive about leaderboards or overall “success” by other peoples’ standards. I want to have a good time, and am more interested in overall attitudes of the people I play with, than with their skill or the ability of the group to “succeed”. As long as we have a good time and enjoy each others’ virtual company, that works for me. Of course, failing at every proposed endeavor is not fun, so this does have to be balanced out somewhat with more practical considerations, like player skill, and chosen objectives, but I’m not idiot enough to believe that things cannot be both fun and successful at the same time, even it requires some extra effort on the part of the group. I don’t feel the need for things to be always as easy or as fast as they possibly can be, I just want them to be fun, and ideally to look good graphically.

But the problem is that there are so many other people out there who are not in the same sort of mind-set. Combine that with the general stigma that rangers suffer and you get the issue of people being unwilling, out of hand, to accept a ranger into their team/group/pug/etc.

I get the impression from the skills available to us that the devs intended us to be a “jack-of-all” sort of a class, able to do just about anything we choose to. The problem is that there is not enough balance from one ranger build to the next, or from one ranger build to another class’s build designed for the same purpose, to allow us to really be that versatile. Most of the time, and for most roles/purposes, other classes are preferable, because they can do the job better (assuming equal player skill). Anything we can do is often achieved more powerfully, more quickly, and/or more easily by other classes.

The purpose of the ranger then: Despite what it seems the devs may have intended, the current state of the game is such that the purpose of the ranger seems to be to stand on the street corner shouting “I am not useless, let me prove it!” and having other players glance warily and sidelong at us, hoping they don’t accidentally make direct eye contact, while trying to pretend they aren’t really putting together a group/team.

What I would like to see in future stories is for the story writers to avoid some of the flaws in the current story. Specifically, we need to have more personal involvement, so it feels like OUR story as it was advertised to be. We need to have improved dialog writing and voiceovers. While a lot of the dialog and voiceovers were great, too many of them were substantially below par even for a game (where as gamers we often expect them to be bad). We also need more cohesive story arcs. I don’t mind moving from one arc to another, but they should blend better, rather than COMPLETELY changing the cast from one arc to the next. And lastly, we really need to have better emotional interest in the NPCs, which means they need to be written in such a way, and stick around long enough, for us to care what happens to them (whether that means we are sad when they leave or die, or want to kill them ourselves, or whatever). In the current story lines, other characters are around for a few missions, and then they’re gone, but cutscenes are written like our character actually is greatly upset by their loss, when we players really didn’t have much reason to care one way or another. That HAS to change in future stories.

radsaq.8269:

If you’re using knights gear and have high precision, you may also want to consider vampiric precision instead of ritual mastery. Yes, the cooldown on wells sucks, but vampiric precision heals for an additional 54 on top of the 40 from vampiric, and can trigger from any skill that hits enemies (including wells). If you’ve got about 66% crit chance (a reasonable amount with knights gear/consumables/sigil of perception), then every hit heals you for an average of 76 instead of just 40.

Of course, if you already feel like you’ve got enough life stealing going on, then ritual mastery is definitely better.

I’m not sure I agree with that take. I haven’t checked out the numbers, so won’t make a specific suggestion, but you also have to keep in mind the overall siphon increases gained from being able to use wells more often. On the one hand, taking Vampiric Precision would increase your healing per strike from wells, but Ritual Mastery increases how often you can make those strikes and gain siphon from Vampiric Rituals. I think it would be important to compare the relative gains of each before making a decision on it, and that wouldn’t be possible without knowing the full Crit Chance percentage as well. Just something to consider.

Just found the post by Deniara Devious.3948 at https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Profession-Selection-Guide/first#post1539689 and the basic guide at http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/profession-review-march-2013. Both nice and helpful.

Still would like to see other opinions on things though, especially specific builds.

Drake

I’ve been playing the game awhile and played a number of different classes and builds, but there is so much versatility for build creation, that I haven’t come close to trying out everything. And obviously, some builds just plain don’t work, while others work extremely well.

I’m not a hardcore gamer, and my two highest level characters are a level 80 Ranger, condition trapper build, and a level 60 Elementalist, scepter/dagger conditions build. I’ve liked both of them, but I find myself annoyed by some of the limitations that afflict condition builds.

With that in mind, I’d like to start up and try out an alt that is based primarily on raw Direct Damage. I’d like some suggestions from other players as to what sorts of classes/builds might work for me. Of course, you can’t really offer any useful advice without knowing something about my preferred play style and what I’m looking for in a character, so following are some basic guidelines, in order of my personal priorities, and please keep in mind that this is for PvE…

1. High damage output. It doesn’t have to be the highest in the game, but it needs to be respectable, preferably above average.

2. A ranged build. I’m not a fan of melee style action, never have been. But also bear in mind that while kiting can be effective, endless circle kiting gets boring really fast, and is one of the things I dislike about my Elementalist. I love the look of bows (longbows especially), pretty much all other ranged weapons are acceptable, but I would prefer bows, especially longbow.

3. Decent survivability. I love having the ability to call up distractions, like summoned elementals, or Ranger pets, because they reduce the need for kiting, which I already mentioned gets boring, but other methods of increasing survivability are certainly worth consideration.

4. Sustainable skills. I’d like a build where the overall effectiveness over time is spread more or less evenly, and where killing one target and switching to the next does not result in a significant loss of overall effectiveness. Some change in effectiveness is expected, but significant losses bother me.

5. Solid AoE options. I like the ability to take out multiple targets relatively quickly. Alternative to AoE, I would accept particularly heavy/fast single-target damage. If I can get single-target damage sufficient to dispatch three or so targets as fast as my ranger can using traps for AoE, then I would be perfectly OK with that in place of AoE. I’m not sure that’s even possible, as I would have to deal enough damage to drop a single trash MOB in about 3-4 seconds, but if it is possible, I’d be happy to take a look.

6. If possible, I’d like a decent ability to improve the character’s travel speed, even if by replacing a slot skill or two when traveling. With the Ranger I relied on Swoop, Call of the Wild, and Signet of the Hunt for this purpose, and as long as Swoop doesn’t target a little white-name critter two feet in front of me, the combination works extremely well. With my Elementalist I relied on Ride the Lightning and Signet of Air, also a very effective combination, but with the same limitation as Swoop. If possible, I’d like to be able to improve travel speed by similar amounts.

Now then, I have tried out a few possibilities that I wasn’t quite happy with, but it is entirely possible I simply had poor builds that I was working with. Nevertheless, you should be aware of my experiences.

First, I haven’t found a necro build I’m happy with, because AoE is really limited unless you go condition build with Epidemic, which isn’t what I’m after because it’s a condition build, or rely on wells and marks, neither of which did I enjoy very much. I haven’t found a thief build that really has decent AoE and is also ranged, and the one good AoE build I did find (melee) was a condition build. I also haven’t found ranged builds with decent AoE for Mesmer, Guardian, or Warrior, but this could just be because I haven’t found a good build. I wasn’t impressed with Engineer slot skills on paper, but haven’t tried the class. Power trapper build for Ranger with bows can work ok, but it seems a touch weak to me compared to the condition build. Power build for staff Elementalist seems effective, but I found I didn’t really enjoy it, not sure why, but probably had to do with circle kiting.

I’m hoping that I’m just missing some really great builds. Any well thought out and constructive suggestions are appreciated. Links to saved builds on editor sites like gw2skills.net, gw2db.com, or gw2codex.com (or similar) would be most useful, but as long as you provide information regarding the fundamentals of the build (weapon sets, key traits, etc.), that should do.

Thanks,
Drake

Same problem here. Possibly related to the login and disconnection issues people are having.

To everyone saying there hasn’t been an official response, please try using all available sources. In this case, namely try http://twitter.com/guildwars2 as they made an official response there.

Although it would be nice if they would make use of their own RSS too… that hasn’t been updated in a month.

HawkMeister.4758:

They know their own servers work.
http://www.gw2status.de/
As do you now.

Must be something on teh Internetz.

Not necessarily. http://www.internetpulse.net/ shows no issues with internet backbone (though I’d really like to find a better source for that sort of info as that site isn’t always correct). It could be a code glitch or other data transfer issue with the login server. Just because the servers are powered up and gw2status can ping them doesn’t necessarily mean they’re working correctly.

Gacyman.3475:

oh no i broke the internet

LOL brilliant!

Lion’s Arch is not the problem. I’m having the same issue just logging in to the character select screen and also with characters in other zones besides Lion’s Arch, including Wayfarer Foothills and Metrica Province. The problem has to be an issue with the servers themselves or the internet backbone near the servers. I don’t see any backbone problems at http://www.internetpulse.net/ but that site doesn’t always have accurate and up-to-date information (anyone know a better source?).

While it is true that the Lost Shores mini expansion added a new tier of equipment, and an annoying grind method of acquiring that equipment, I am really tired of seeing post after post, thread after thread, complaining about how ArenaNet has abandoned their manifesto and their design philosophy, or how they have lied to the players.

In the first place, ArenaNet is a company, and like all companies it is made up of people, and like all people, they are inclined to make mistakes from time to time. So unless you’ve never done something stupid in your entire life, lay off! It’s one thing to give constructive criticism and feedback to let them know you think they’ve made a mistake in some of their decisions, but it is entirely something else to call them liars! And in the second place, please, for the love of Pete, please read their official responses at https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside and https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Chris-Whiteside-on-the-Lost-Shores-and-Beyond. I’ve seen more than a few posts complaining about how ArenaNet hasn’t responded to player concerns… well check again, because they responded right away! And then they responded some more.

The simple fact of the mater is, that while the current method of acquiring Ascended gear is an annoying grind, they have stated quite clearly that they will be implementing additional ways to get Ascended gear. They have also stated quite clearly that Ascended gear is not a step towards vertical gear progression, but was intended to be an intermediate step between Exotic and Legendary gear to make a more manageable progression regarding a stat gap. They have also quite clearly stated that they do not intend to introduce additional tiers of gear on a regular or frequent basis.

The short of it is this: every single post that says they have lied to us about wanting a no-grind game, or that they have turned their backs on their own manifesto, or that Ascended gear is ruining the game, are all just plain wrong. ArenaNet could have made some better decisions regarding their initial choice for method of acquisition, and they probably should have introduced a minimum of two possible methods right from the start, instead of just one, so those of us who hate dungeon crawls don’t have to try and grind a fractal dungeon crawl. But to say that they have turned their backs on their own philosophy, or on their players, is simply not reflective of all the facts. I cannot help but feel that most such posts, if not all, are posted by people who have failed utterly to pay attention to the tools the company has put in place for us to get direct feedback from the company itself.

I’m amazed at how many people have said they’re going to stop playing just because the game isn’t flawlessly perfect even though it’s only 3 months old, or because they don’t like a single design descision. Name me one MMO that has ever been so good that it didn’t need significant adjustments and changes after initial release, or even after a full year! Every MMO I’ve ever played — from EverQuest to Asheron’s Call, from WoW to GW1 to GW2, to over 50 Free-to-Play titles across multiple genres — every single one of them has had balance issues. Character balance, gear balance, and economics are the BIGGEST challenges faced by MMO developers, and always have been. If you think it’s so easy to make a well-balanced game, then go make it. If you succeed, you’ll be a legend overnight, and filthy rich within a year.

My suggestion to the players. Before you complain any more, try looking through the tools that we have to track what the devs are actually saying to us. Read through the News and Announcement section of the forums. Check out the Dev Tracker and see what has actually been said within actual threads. Stop complaining about how the company never responds to our concerns, and start actually looking for those responses. They have more important things to do with their time than to reply on every other page of every thread complaining about something. I for one would rather have them spend that time making changes to improve the game rather than wasting it posting the same thing 50 times just because the players refuse to read what has already been posted.

My 2cp.

Basically you need to understand the way the two interact with each other in terms of total average damage increase. Basically, increasing either one will increase your overall damage output over time, but which one will give the greatest increase depends on your full stats.

If you really want to know, then you have to know exactly what your current crit chance and crit damage values are (check your Hero screen), then crunch the numbers. Or you could check out the table at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical for some pre-calculated numbers at 5-point intervals.

Let’s take, for example, a crit chance of 56% and a crit damage bonus of 48% (total crit damage of 198%). That means that your average damage over time vs. non-criticals is equal to 0.56*1.98=1.1088, in other words +11% average damage over time. If you then add +26 Precision, that will change your crit chance rating. If your crit chance would increase by 2%, then you would have 58% chance and 48% damage, results in 0.58*1.98=1.1484, or +15% damage, which means you would get a total of +4% damage increase by upgrading Precision (assuming you would get a 2% crit chance boost, which depends on your level). If you instead take the +2% crit damage then you would have 56% and 50%, resulting in 0.56*2=1.12, or 12% damage increase over baseline, for a total of +1% vs what you had before the upgrade.

Anyway, that’s the comparison you need to make in order to determine which is better to increase.

You;ll probably get better advice in the Ranger forum itself, but I’ll give you a couple of quick tips…

1. Choose your pets carefully. Each pet family type (feline vs. ursine vs. porsine vs. raptor, etc.) has different base stats as well as different skills to use. Be sure to choose pets that will synergize with and augment your own base abilities.

2. Stay on the move. This really applies to all classes, but the Ranger is no different. Just because you have a pet, that doesn’t mean you should send the pet in and stand in one place. Keep on the move.

3. Unless you are using an ursine pet (bear), don’t expect your pet to be able to tank, try to keep aggro yourself. This will make point 2 that much more important, but it will also reduce pet damage output due to the pet having to chase down the target. If you do this, consider taking pets that have gap closers.

4. Remember that you can have two pets on land and two under water, and you can swap between your two pets even during combat. This means that if your favorite pet dies in combat, you can still summon out the second one to help you. I don’t remember for sure, but I think the summoning/swapping cooldown timer is shorter if the pet is still alive, so consider swapping just before the pet dies.

As I said, you can probably get better advice in the ranger forum, but that should at least help get you started a little. If you want anything more specific it would be helpful to know what specific aspects of the class you want advice on, but again the ranger forum would probably get you better information.

Same problems here… can’t sell to TP, can’t buy from TP, not all items show up in TP search, equipment in TP does not show comparison tooltip properly. Seems like the system needs a reboot.

I don’t know of any armor or jewelry that give those specific three stats (though I’ll admit I’m not familiar with all armor sets). However, if you combine sets you can at least set up combinations that include those stats plus Power and Vitality. For jewelry you’d be looking at items based on Sapphire and/or Chrysocola. For armor you’d be looking at anything with a Cleric’s and/or Carrion insignia/prefix. Similarly, you can also get weapons with Cleric’s and/or Carrion inscription/prefix for the same stats as well. For more info you can check out http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Insignia, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jeweler, and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_armor_sets.

You could also check out http://www.pro-star.com/ and http://www.factorgaming.com/ for some options, but I generally agree with others who have said that a desktop is generally the better way to go. Unless you really need the lower power consumption or the mobility, desktops are generally more powerful for less money than laptops, and they tend to be more stable and easier to upgrade, so they generally keep their value for longer.

Yes, there is something you should know about this: Runes are for armor. Runes cannot be placed into any item that is not an armor item. Keep in mind that your breathing aparatus is considered an armor item, replaces your head piece when fighting underwater, and can accept a Rune. Additionally, Sigils can only be placed into weapons. Jewels can only be placed into Accessories (rings, earrings, amulets, and back items). Gems can be placed into anything that has an upgrade slot. Marks, Talismans, Seals, Medallions, Crests, and Doubloons can all be placed into any item with an upgrade slot as well.

For more details, feel free to look through the wiki, starting at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upgrade_component.

I’ve seen arguments go either way on this subject. On the one hand, it is true that Elites don’t seem to be powerful enough to justify their name (“elite”) or their cooldowns most of the time. But on the other hand, Elites skills, if used properly and at the right time, can make a significant impact on a battle, more so than other skills often would.

The issue to me though, is the overall feel of the skills. If you ignore cooldowns, they are decent skills most of the time. But then you take cooldowns into account and all of a sudden they seem much less “elite” and much more mediocre. Add to that the fact that most of them are not usable underwater and what we are generally left with is a skill slot that almost never gets used.

As the original poster said, in GW1 the elite skills were very powerful, fun to use, and generally worthy of their name as “elite”. The so-called “Elite” skills in GW2 simply feel weak. I personally find myself designing builds with no consideration whatsoever for the elite skill, and choose an elite almost as an afterthought.

Something definitely needs to be done to significantly improve the elite skills.

In addition to what Iruwen has said, you should also consider that the mouse wheel is used for other things too, like scrolling through UI screens and the chat window. The way the game interface was designed, the mouse wheel is hard coded to multiple specific functions, so allowing you to bind them to other functions could get complex, because you would either have to no longer be able to use it for default functions like scrolling, or they would need to make it so that any bindable functions are superseded by default functions except zooming. This could be possible, but I doubt there is enough demand for it that ANet will spend the time.

Anyway, as Iruwen said, you can try to use your mouse software to rebind the mousewheel functions. If that doesn’t work, or if you don’t have mouse control software that will do it, you could try using Auto HotKey to intercept the mousewheel signals and replace them with something else that is bindable. You can get Auto HotKey at http://www.autohotkey.com/.

Corrupted Short Bow is pretty awesome looking. There are other bows with the same model as listed at http://www.gw2db.com/items/66693-corrupted-short-bow#related:same-model. Unfortunately the Corrupted Longbow is, in my opinion, not as good, but there are some longbows that use the same base model as the Corrupted Short Bow.

Some other more general skins I like are as follows…

Etched
Forest
Flame
Valley/Krytan

There are a number of bows of both types that use those general skins. My personal preference is for the corrupted short bow look or the Valley/Krytan look. I wish they would put together some more models and textures though, as I’d really like to see a bow that is similar in structural style as the Valley/Krytan longbows, but textured with asura-style, glowy, arcane tech, especially in blue, but that’s just me (I don’t like the hard angles of the glyphic bows).

About the closest I think you’ll get is T3 cultural medium (Assassin’s Armor) or one of the “Named” sets. Check out http://www.gw2armor.com/human/female/medium_list.php for some images of some of the options. Keep in mind that that site does not include most of the items that are findable as loot. You can also check out http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_armor_sets as some of the linked pages have screenshots, but I don’t recall seeing anything close to what you’re looking for.

Basically combos work like this…

Player A sets up a “Combo Field”. Combo fields are lasting areas of a particular effect, and are linked to a particular “element” (loosely used term). Each element type of combo field interacts differently with combo finishers. A combo finisher will not end the combo field, it simply interacts with the field to produce a special effect.

Player B activates a “Combo Finisher” inside of the combo field. There are several types of combo finishers, specifically, Projectile, Whirl, Blast, and Leap. Not all skills act as combo finishers, for example not all projectile weapon attacks act as a projectile combo finisher. Any skill that is a combo finisher will say so in the skill description.

Player A and Player B can actually be the same player. For example, an elementalist using scepter and dagger can set up a Ring of Fire as a Fire Combo Field, and can then use Dragon’s Tooth and Phoenix as two Blast Finsihers.

For more information on what combo fields are possible, and what each finsiher type would do when reacting to a specific combo field type, you can check out the Combo page on the wiki at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo.

In short though, combos are ways for players to create enhanced power for the group through effect synergy. An elementalist with a staff can lay down Healing Rain, which will heal characters in the area of effect, but then any other characters that unleash a combo finisher within that field will cause additional healing without sacrificing anything. So, for example, a warrior could use a leap attack to deal damage to the target, and doing so inside a water field would cause them to heal themselves while still dealing full damage.

Hope that helps.

Akukai.9035:

@Drake Phoenix: I’ll definitely max both my Ranger and Elementalist eventually. The question is who first lol. Btw, thanks for your take on my questions.

I’ve found, as both my characters get higher in level, that I enjoy the Ele a bit more most of the time. This is opposite of how things were at earlier levels. As I said, I really love the concept of the bow ranger with pet, and I didn’t want to let go of that, and at earlier levels it was good enough. But at higher levels I find myself wishing for greater damage potential, as I find big and/or fast damage numbers to be fun. I also find the ranger to be not as fast-paced as I would prefer, though still a far cry better than in most other games (my WoW Hunter was an aweful lot of "send in pet, hang back, stand in one place, and use a macro for main attack sequence, while soloing at least, and GW2 offers a little bit more). But the Ele is more fast-paced with the action, because the elementals (if you use them) aren’t that powerful, and aren’t likely to hold aggro too well, so you have to be very active at kiting and dodging to stay alive. Also, while I do change weapon sets in combat on occasion with my ranger, especially up against champions (as I like to stack vuln from Hunter’s Shot plus poison and bleeds from the shortbow), with the elementalist, in order to really make the best use of their skills, you really need to do attunement swapping fairly regularly, and it is best to do it with some strategy in mind (rather than button mashing). The ele’s versatility makes them a bit more adaptable to changing combat dynamics than the ranger is really capable of, and I enjoy that more and more as my characters get to higher levels.

So for me, while my ranger is the higher level character at the moment, I find myself playing the ele more and more, and catching up in levels. At this point I mostly use the ranger if I want to see more valuable loot drops (from higher level kills), or if I’ve died a few times on the ele and gotten frustrated with the squishyness so need a break with something more survivable.

From what you’ve said so far, and since it sounds like you enjoyed your resto/ele shaman in WoW, I’m thinking the ele might be the better choice for you. You could check out some posted builds at http://www.gw2db.com/skill-builds/elementalist?sort=-rating to see if there is anything there that might appeal to you for the long term, or that you could use as inspiration for designing your own build. If you like playing the healer sort of role, then I suggest taking a close look at water magic skills, especially with staff, and also look at the traits in the water magic line.

Hope that helps you decide

CommanderPC.8609:

I love both of them. I was considering just flipping a coin because I enjoy both, so I wouldn’t be tired of one or the other.

That isn’t a bad idea at all. If you really don’t feel you have the time to play both regularly, and you can’t decide because both are a lot of fun for you, then it shouldn’t much matter which one you choose to level up first, and flipping a coin would at least make the choice for you. I suggest not using a dime though (assuming you’re American, nor a similarly small coin if you aren’t American), as they can sometimes be hard to find again if you happen to drop them

Akukai.9035:

Drake Phoenix, I feel like I’m like you, can’t decide between Ranger and Elementalist, but I’m afraid I don’t have enough time to play both, unfortunately

Could you help me sway towards either one or the other? What about Ele you like best that keeps making you come back? How about the Ranger?

I really like the versatility of the Ele, as well as the challenging fast-paced paly style. I don’t like the squishyness, and the damage output doesn’t really make up for it, and I’m hoping that will be addressed in future patches. For both classes I like the fact that they are ranged. I hate melee classes, they just don’t work for me… I’m a hit-and-run sort of player, and really wish that I could get Thief-level fast damage output with a ranged character. In both classes I like having distraction targets (pets for rangers and elementals for the elementalist). Mesmers get distraction targets too, but they disappear when your target dies and I don’t like the cooldowns for resummoning them. Rangers can be rather versatile if you set up their utility skills and traits right. I personally run a trapper build for added AoE capability. I also like the fact that Rangers are not very squishy at all (bear pets plus medium armor and medium HP combine to make a fairly survivable class). Another thing I like about rangers is that I have always loved the mental and visual concept of a character with a good bow and a loyal companion.

But getting back to the original poster’s issue… CommanderPC, from what you posted about 8-9 hours ago, it sounds like Engineer might be the way to go for you. If I’m understanding you correctly, you seem to want ranged options even if not strictly a ranged build, you seem to want versatility and decent damage output, and you seem to want some good survivability. In other words, you want something of a jack-of-all sort of thing, if I’m understanding you right. While I haven’t played an engineer, I have looked at some of their abilities, and some of the builds that people have posted, and I’ve seen them played here and there, and my limited understanding of the class is that they rather fit everything you seem to be looking for. That’s the way I see it at this point, anyway.

As to those who say that the HotM trick isn’t that great… I want to point out that I also recommended playing the classes in the full PvE world as well. I also wish to point out that it is meant as a way to get a feel for the general play style and abilities of a class, and in that respect it is useful as a sort of “snapshot” of what a class can be like. I never said it would give the OP a full perspective on each class. But it can be helpful for people who are having trouble deciding, as they can play around with different builds and different classes without having to level up halfway through the game or more. Basically, it is a potential time saver. Will it give you an idea of exactly what the character would be like in PvE at level 75 or 80? Certainly not. But that isn’t the point. The point is that it will give you a fair idea of what the character could be like for the last 40 levels or so, without having to level up to level 40+ to find out.

Having played none of those classes myself, I can’t really give you any advice directly related to any of them. What I would suggest though is this:

1. Set up a character of each of those classes.
2. Complete the tutorial portion of the story for each one.
3. Take each one to Heart of the Mists.
4. Come up with some build ideas for each one (you can use tools such as http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/ and http://www.gw2db.com/skill-builds to start getting some ideas of what direction you might like to go).
5. Play around with those characters for a bit in Heart of the mists and take them up against the different classes of NPC sparring partners there as well as the target dummies and the full enemies (like Svanir). Get a feel for each one.
6. Make tweaks to each build as you feel is warranted.
7. Take the characters back to the PvE world and play them there. Keep all three and feel free to play each one whenever you feel like it.

You might eventually find that you enjoy playing one of them more than the others, and when that finally happens, there is your main character to take to level 80. And you can keep the others around so that when you get a little burned out on your main you have another option for a small break. On the other hand, you may end up like me (I can never decide if I like Ranger best or Elementalist best, so I play both regularly). Something to try at least.

You could also check out http://www.gw2armor.com

I solidly agree with this suggestion. The more complex a password is, the more secure it is. Allowing passwords to include special characters adds one more level of complexity and security for those who choose to use them. With the level of account hacking and stealing that goes on in games like this it is amazing that most of them, including GW2, don’t allow the possibility for the most secure passwords.

There are a couple of good tutorial videos on youtube for this one. I tried it for about an hour, got thoroughly frustrated, then looked it up on youtube. After watching just one of the videos I was able to complete the jumping puzzle in about 30 minutes (I fell a couple of times because my timing sucks). But the puzzle is certainly doable, even with a Norn.

As many have already said, it depends a lot on your personal play style. And it also depends on what type of content you want to play (PvE, sPvP, WvW).

I don’t play PvP types of content, it’s just something that has never interested me in any game I’ve ever played. I personally am also not a fan of melee classes. I simply do not enjoy them. I prefer hit-and-run ranged classes. They can keep a target in attack range without having to chase them down all the time, and they can safely kite melee opponents without losing their damage output.

I also like seeing decent AoE output and/or very fast single-target kills. And I don’t like being so squishy that if a target manages to close in, I die in just a few hits.

If you’re interested in PvE, and your play style is similar to mine, then I would recommend taking a look at longbow/shortbow trapper builds for the Ranger (traps and barrage for AoE, Hunter’s Shot and Crossfire for single-target), various builds for elementalist (I’m particularly fond of scepter/dagger and using both fire and earth magics heavily, swapping to Staff out of combat before DE’s), or the Necromancer, especially an axe/focus and dagger/dagger minion master (superb survivability if handled correctly, and very respectable single-target damage).

You should also keep in mind that Condition Damage builds can be very effective when solo, but are not very useful in DE’s because of the way condition stacking currently works (devs have said they are trying to figure out a way to balance it better, so changes should be in the works in the hopefully near future).

But whether your have a similar playstyle preference to me or not, I recommend that you make use of the Heart of the Mists. Once you have a character past the tutorial part of the story you can go to HotM and have full access to any weapon, armor, rune, sigil, and skill set you like. This allows you to try out different things with your character as though they were full level 80, and you get an idea of where you would like to go with a build or whether or not you even like a particular build or class. You can also test out damage output and damage speed against the different target golems, and if you want to know how well you can survive against targets that will actually try to kill you, there are a few options for that as well. Try a few things out, and don’t be afraid to delete a level 2 character (the level you should be after completing the tutorial with any character), as you won’t lose much.

Electro.4173:

I’ll have to look more into the red bars on skills. I’ve definately noticed them before, but they’ve seemed… off. But maybe I just wasn’t watching them close enough.

They are “off”. Specifically, they have several problems as follows…

1. They are difficult to see.
2. They are non-existent for ground-targeted AoE skills even when AoE auto-cast is enabled.
3. They are inaccurate. There are some skills that you can use and still hit even when the red bar is present, even some auto attacks like ranger longbow auto attack (although they will not auto attack until the red bar goes away, they can still be used and will still hit). There are other skills that you will get a target out of range error even when the red bar has disappeared.

Having the option to enable a graphical range display, attached to target HP bar and showing distance to target, could be very useful to a lot of people I think. But any improvement to range indicators would be welcome.

I agree that the system could use improvement. The biggest issue is when you are in the middle of a story arc, something pressing and urgent is taking place within the story itself, but you can’t do anything about it just yet because your level and gear are 5 levels below the recommended level for the next step and even though you’ve tried to do it early, you simply cannot survive.

But I think the OP’s suggestion to change to the underlying game mechanics would be prohibitively difficult, time-consuming, and expensive to develop and test. And as Runiir pointed out, level progression is a key component of MMOs.

I think a possible solution might be to set the recommended level and difficulty level of each sub-arc (sequence of quests that should be performed back to back without a level break) all be the same. So say there is a sub-arc that involves 5 quests that should be done without a leveling break for the sake of continuity, and say that the current level range for those quests is 25-30. ANet could take such a sub-arc and make the whole thing level 30 recommended and level 30 difficulty. That way, once a player is sufficient level and gear to do the first quest, they should also be able to accomplish the other 4, without having to stop in the middle to increase their own power.

I do see a problem with even that solution though. If ANet made such a change, the time spent level grinding between story arcs would be increased. The overall level grind amount would not be changed, but it would come in larger and lengthier chunks. The monotony of that could be reduced by adding in new story-drive side quests that are more involved than many of the current dynamic events (which would require time and money spent on content development, but would be much easier than revamping the game mechanics).