Guild Wars 2

How about just make it a 4s Daze.

Edit: With lots of butterflies.

1. Don’t care. Overall, a shorter cooldown for a shorter effect (with a slightly shorter cast time) makes sense overall. I might even use it then, sometimes. Maybe. … not. Maybe if I did super-small-scale tPvP where 1v1s actually matter.

2. Yes, universal fix.

3. Disagree on Staff/Sword clone nerfs. Don’t see any need for that. Scepter clones need buffs for sure though.

4. Ambivalent. iB has a significantly smaller AOE than other class AOEs, but has the benefit of higher contact due to the lack of direct LOS. Personally I think too much siege lasts too long in WvW in general, so I think that other anti-siege mechanisms need to be added / adjusted before iB is changed, if it is changed. Overall I think iB is currently “balanced”, even though the exact mechanic is not consistent with other phantasms. While fixing the LOS would be consistent, I feel that iB would need a buff to compensate, and the rest of the kit doesn’t need a direct potency buff.

5. Lol, no. iD doesn’t do “more” damage than other phantasms, so I don’t see why it needs a nerf. The only thing that needs fixing is the trait bug for 100% combo finishers.

6. No. Lots of things annoy lots of players. Blurred Frenzy is working as intended. I wouldn’t mind an overpowering damage buff on it if it lost the evasion / had its cooldown increased though … lulzz. No reason to fix what isn’t broken.

a. Shrug.
b. Shrug. Star/Commander icons need to be fixed. ANet says it’s a known issue. Shrug.
i. GS3 is mostly fine. Boon shearing is a wonderful thing, haven’t you heard? It will not get directly buffed because it does as much DPS as a full-distance Spatial Surge along with the AOE and boon strip. If it is buffed, some aspect will be nerfed.
ii. Yes, iMage is basically ANet trolling Mesmers.
iii. Staff is fine, don’t care. Perhaps nerf the cooldown on Storm slightly more and increase it to 4 ticks.
iiii. Mantras are relatively fine.

^

This. PRX is very solid but they were losing in IOJ BL where I saw them last. Relied too much on the turtle formation. Extremely good defensive coordination made it a kitten to take any of their towers/keeps though. And they were pretty kitten quick assaulting our rear objectives when we were moving elsewhere ~_~.

Portal bombing is when you portal your team into/behind the enemy team.

This places your team at an unexpected location giving them a positional advantage. In addition, current culling issues will delay the enemy from seeing individual players if they didn’t notice the actual portal.

Advanced techniques include:

- Turtle + portal bomb (where the players stack in a turtle and move via portals)
- Two-step portals where you basically have 2 portals daisy-chained in order to maximize culling abuse and minimize enemy scouting awareness of your position (much harder to see you coming from 3.5k range compared to 1.5k range).

The best example for this is Mesmer. Peak performance: great. You can Portal people inside the keep. You can teleport Golems. You can teleport your voice comm guildies.
Average performance? Just how often does keep-portalling succeed for you personally?

Every day.

You need to be more creative / more dynamic about it, and your teammates need to be faster and more mobile.

How much time do you sit in a keep, idling, waiting?

Depends which keep and what situation. I’ve sat in keeps between 2 minutes and 30 minutes (that one was epic btw, I swear the enemy thought were were hacking, because it was one of the most slick portals ever — people on our server even asked if we hacked because they couldn’t believe we had a Mesmer in the keep).

Then, how often do you really teleport golems?

Every time we have a golem squad.

And when your group is teleporting golems, are there enough mesmers already and do you feel wasted?

No, because 5 portals aren’t enough for golems as well as bombing. And if we really have that many Mesmers doing portals, I can always swap that utility slot for something else (WOW!).

It’s not like Mesmers are at a lack of incredibly powerful Utility slot abilities like Feedback, Blink or Null Field.

With Feedback, how often does this give satisfying results?

At a cooldown of under 1 minute, and a rate of 50%, I’d say every 2 minutes.

But how often in your playtime do you fight at choke points?

All the time?

If you’re hitting a keep, you’re at chokepoints all over (gate, wall, more gates, lord room tunnel, lord room itself). If you’re in the open field, someone is turtling, which is automatic Feedback bait as far as I’m concerned.

How often does the enemy use portals? All the kittening time (just like we do). How often should you be dropping a Feedback on enemy portals? Every single time.

fadeaway.2807:

WIWith the dominance of range, i’m surprised many people suggest warrior.

I wouldn’t suggest Warrior, but I disagree with the dominance of range.

GW2 WvW is the exact same as large-scale PvP in every MMORPG ever released:

Ranged classes start fights and manipulate fights, where melee break fights and end fights.

No fight is ever finished by ranged pew pew classes running away to heal up. No standoff is ever broken.

How much does fire hit for and how much power or attack do you have?

Edit: Air is 1.8-2k, with max power gear (not sure if power affects it at all though).

Shattering 2p+1c everytime your phantasm cooldowns are up after the phantasms fire their attacks is more DPS than letting 3p pew pew pew pew, unless you have Phantasmal Haste.

Either way it’s more effort though, so for DE champs I usually just summon 3 then afk. It’s PvE after all.

For portal bombing, that sounds like a larger-scale fight. Don’t expect to deal much sustained DPS with illusions unless it’s a small-scale fight.

You’ll typically want to shatter the sets of Illusions pretty quickly after you spawn them.

For portal bombing in particular, consider getting the Blind on Glamour trait (20 points in Illusion), since I assume you’ll be dropping a Feedback on the portal exit per standard operating procedure.

Edit:

In terms of the iWardan, yeah it is pretty reliable for DPS if you can get good with Into the Void. Warden’s Feedback is ridiculously good in general, though, and iWarden is good enough just for that.

Don’t have links but this is a summary:

Preface: all builds take 5 Illusion. If the build does not include 5 Illusion it’s a bad build.

1. Phantasm army / legion builds are phantasm-centric. Defensive / “Bunker” ones take 15/15 Chaos/Inspiration for the minor traits. DPS ones will invest those 15-30 of those points into Dom/Dueling/Illusion. Everything else is optional.

- Dom 10 Empowering Illusions is common.
- Insp 25 +phantasm damage is common.
- Dueling 15 Sharper Images is common.
- Pistol and Staff are common, GS is optional.
- Focus is optional with Insp 20 for the Focus trait.

2. Shatter builds have 30 Illusion and use Shatters. Typically includes 10 Dom for Mental Torment.

- Dueling 20 for Deceptive Evasion is common.

Any other traits come down to weapon selection and personal preference.

- GS, Pistol, Focus, Staff are all common. Currently S/P + Staff seems to be a trend in sPvP.

Shatter builds have a general divide between raw power based damage (Berserker/Soldier/ other power gear selection and associated Mind Wrack-damage traits) and hybrid or condition damage (Carrion or Rabid or Shaman gear selection generally focusing more on Confusion).

3a. Mantra DPS build = 30 Dueling. Usually 30 Dom as well.

- Usually includes 3 or 4 Mantras selected. Always Mantra of Recovery, Mantra of Pain, Mantra of Resolve.
- Third util slot Mantra of Distraction or Concentration or Blink.
- Usually a GS + Sword/x based build because GS and Sword have more burst than other weapons.

Mantra builds have a few significant variations because of how the traits work …

3b. Mantra support build = 20 Inspiration for the “heal on Mantra chargeup trait”. Everything else is optional.

- The heavy investment into inspiration, and the likely gearing for Heal stat (I mean you went out of your way for the Mantra heal trait right?) means that this is more than likely a support build.
- 15 Chaos is common.
- >20 Inspiration is common.

Personally if I were to make this build I would go 30 Illusion for AOE Might on Shatters and get the 10 Insp trait for Vigor on Shatters. Super buff + heal huehuehue.

4. Glamour builds focus on Glamours. The trait line investment is similar to many other builds, but the Trait selection itself is radically different … and focus on Glamours. Typical build will be:

- 20 Dom for Confusion on Glamour
- 20 Insp for Glamour minus cooldown / plus duration
- 20+ Illusion for Blind on Glamour at a minimum
- Illusion trait for 33% Confusion duration optional
- Illusion trait for Confusion on Blind optional

Glamour builds haven’t “gelled” with as much maturity as the other builds from what I can tell. The traits I list above are 100% Glamour spamming. However, in real use not all of those traits may be necessary or optimal. Off the top of my head, these are the following consideration / “problems” with that Glamour build to which I don’t have a settled answer yet although others may have:

- I almost never use both Glamour traits in Inspiration because Warden’s Feedback is too good. Is 30 Inspiration more optimal?
- That’s a metric asston of “all your eggs in one basket”. What do you do besides Glamours? Currently I leverage maximum condition damage (Carrion or Rabid … Shaman?) for the Conditions, and therefore use the Staff.
- Glamour traits are not effective for sPvP since there are too few players. The Glamour utility abilities themselves are still strong, but not worth making an entire build around.
- Portals. Portals are Glamours, but you have to run into the enemy. This usually means you want Blink and/or Decoy — why do you have a Glamour build again? Is 1.5 Glamours really worth it? This is a struggle because Portals are critical for organized WvW, but a Glamour build is kind of meh, because you want Decoy and Blink and MI to get the best portal results.
- In WvW, Null Field and Feedback are the only 2 Glamours highly usable for Confusion/Blind abuse in large scale if you are not portal-ing. Throwing Veil down at the enemy doesn’t land on many of them, and you lose the entire purpose of Veil (unless you are diving at exactly that moment, which is valid). If you use it near your team, then none of the traits take effect on it.

Off the top of my head, any other build (and there are some) would require more explanation and you won’t see them casually referenced by a label.

Zzzz.

It’s obvious to tell whether a person is scaled or not.

There are a few things that are inherently “wrong” with WvW (Berserker PvE and other PvE gear stat distributions compared to sPvP stats come to mind).

There’s no expectation that WvW should be perfectly balanced or finely-tuned.

However, the current situation is that Thieves can instakill almost any target in the game at range at the start of any fight with almost no telegraph. The culling and stealth is just salt in the wound since they can get away from 20 players after stomping their target.

fadeaway.2807:

Hi all,

Have you confirmed that the full 916 base power is used as power?

For example, other base stats do not directly translate as expected into secondary stats: e.g. 916 base Precision does not give you the same crit% as 916 Precision of gear/stats.

I suppose this wouldn’t be too complicated to test — equip and unequip a big power amulet and see if it really does double your damage (or close to it). I suppose I should go do this …

Best armors I’ve found in no particular order:

- Norn T2/3
- Vigil

… it’s a short list. I agree about the Pit Fighter / Gladiator / whatever sets. +1 for bikinis and straps but -2 for all of them having the primitive / crude / SPIKES / bandit theme.

Need a proper plate bikini in this game.

Unlikely, doubt anyone knows for sure.

Why do Thieves stun?

They instakill targets in WvW. Seems like stun is a waste of an elite.

In bossfights: owned by bleed cap.

Have to coordinate to be the bleed guy if you intend to run that.

Ook.9321:

@EasymodeX: Very nice analysis. I’m curious, what if we were talking about a GS shatter build? Would you be willing to add the confusion damage into your existing model to see if Rampager starts to make more sense that way?

The numbers I used were basically spatial surge spam. Any use of addition skills that do more direct damage *cough*Phantasms*cough*MindWrack would skew the results towards Zerk.

Confusion would benefit from the condition damage for sure, but it really depends on how much Confusion you throw out and that is very build-specific. It will help, but not a huge amount.

I utilize full set of ruby orbs for my attachments instead of divinity, ever since they nerfed them. Much more efficient imo.

Divinity/Scholar still stronger. Ogre probably stronger if you feel like you can rely on the dog. Strength stronger if you run 20/x/x/x/30 GS. Ruby is super cheap though and is “mostly” as good, sorta.

My only regret as a Mesmer is I don’t have a skill that lets me imitate Unlimited Blade Works or the Gates of Babylon.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This.

Surrounded by walls of slowly rotating pink sword fences.
I think this happened in Bleach before, IIRC.

Have to admit the GS clone spam + Shatters reminds me of senbonzakura.

Especially when we had that bug where illusion weapons didn’t expire when they died. I remember having a bunch of swords floating in midair after shattering at the end of a fight and was like “… really?”

You somehow think you are some great mastermind and yet you keep repeating the same silly information.

I’m not some great mastermind. I simply play the WvW game and pay attention to what causes winning or losing.

No matter how many posts you quote or how think -think- you are some Sun Tzu, the fact is you are no different than anyone else – except you want those buffs back.

Sure, I want orbs back because they were fun. Strategies circle around orb movement or orb plays. It adds a new layer to WvW strategy.

The simple reality, as you put it, is that orb buffs are the least stack factor for a winning team.

P.S. I am also a better player than most but I don’t need to prove it with forum posts. Harsh words are for fools and cowards.

I never attempted to prove it with forum posts. I only confirmed what you accused me of. It seems you try to start a lot of kitten but you can’t really finish it when you have no leg to stand on.

Berserker is the way to go for direct damage using a direct damage build.

There are other builds where you literally may not use a lot of direct damage capabilities where other things may be more relevant.

It already has a nice reward and a target on its head because it gives the most PPT, and it is already hard to hold it as a virtually automatic 1v2.

@EasymodeX – what is your point? I’ve been there too. The game has been out how long?

If you don’t see the point of fun war stories, then you’re probably playing the wrong game / format and should head out of WvW tbh.

The buffs are too big of an advantage for an already dominating team.

Except they’re not. The tiered elevation / siege placement is the largest advantage. Control of supply camps is a much, much larger advantage. The pooling of supply, upgrades, and defensive siege are enormous advantages.

The stat buffs pale in comparison.

I could understand all of your arguments for the orbs if you didn’t keep whining about the buffs.

I’m not whining about the buffs. You are whining about the orb buffs and I refute thee.

I would love to have the orbs still, but the exploits would have to be fixed first, and of course the buffs are not needed. There could be any number of rewards for a team having the orbs, and yet you keep whining for the buffs. I wonder why?

Because very few other things matter or are interesting.

PPT is stupid — every objective in WvW is already worth PPT.

Any flavor of PvE buff is stupid — kitten PvE. In addition, no motivation would be added to make the orb relevant.

Miscellaneous WvW mechanics buffs? (E.g. Supply, Yak speed) — these are inherently the same as stat buffs, except they provide less cool factor. Supply-related buffs would actually be more damaging to the losing team than raw stat buffs depending on the values.

They very obviously do affect server balance.

Sure, but less than a dozen other factors.

How was I supposed to interpret your posts?

1. Read. 2. Comprehend.

Always a good start.

You come off haughty and act like you are a better player than everyone else. Yet you transfer servers all the time and are here telling us you think the orb buffs were fine. Sorry man, but you just don’t have me convinced.

1. I am, in fact, a better player than most.

2. I’ve xferred servers once (from a winning server to an even one) for 1 day since release. Oh yeah, I’m a big bandwagoner lololol. Try way harder bro.

Stonemist is already a point of contention since it is the highest PPT objective and gives raw map control.

Don’t see why you want to add a stat buff on top of it. The purpose is redundant.

Don’t think those choices matters too much. 1-5, mouse buttons, and F1-F4 are all pretty accessible in general. F1-F4 depends on your personal habits for whether or not they are fast access.

What really matters is what you do with 6-0.

I don’t see what the big deal is, I wasted ~5mintues of a zerg’s time and they were still able to cap it.

“I don’t see what the big deal is, I just effectively tanked 50 people by myself for 5 minutes straight, whereas I would have died in 10 seconds if the GW2 engine culling worked coherently.”

That would be worse than the Orb mechanic because the stats would be skewed to whoever’s winning PPT, and they are already winning PPT. The Orb mechanic itself has the potential to defy PPT / map control and adds a separate layer of strategy.

Now that the orb buffs are gone, it will be on you to prove they didn’t make a difference.

Sorry, but I played when we were down orbs and winning map control. I’ve been there and done that.

As I’ve said previously, they make a difference but they are far down the list of things that affect server balance.

I did say the buffs were a silly advantage that were not needed for a winning team.

The buffs are a very fun advantage that provide motivation and varying WvW map dynamics. E.g. something I mentioned in my first post, if we want to get into a discussion about illiteracy.

It seems to me that your goal is to prove to everyone else that the buffs were not needed to win a match.

You have poor interpretation skills. My only claim are that orbs are fun (because they are, for several reasons), and that they do not determine a match. E.g. ANet should add them back in when they can deal with the cheating.

Plain and simple once a server attained all 3 orbs it became demoralizing for all but the most hardcore to go in and compete against them.

And what happens when the hardcore take an orb or hold it against the larger server?

That possibility is now removed from WvW. WvW is now more stale and there are now fewer opportunities on the map to gain advantages.

Maybe we just need a booming voice (ala Mortal Kombat announcer) to deeply belt out “BACKSTAB!” and “CRITICAL!” a second before it hits. That way, people will know it is coming and dodge.

So the booming voice would happen before the player even presses the Backstab button? Or CND or Mug for that matter?

Speaking of which, it would be nice of the beginning of the CND animation were telegraphed better.

@EasymodeX did u test it in pve or in pvp?

No specific tests in either.

Few things you should be aware of though:

1. PvE and sPvP Berserker gear are very different. sPvP Zerk has +minor Vitality and something like 40% less crit damage.
2. Rampager gear gets a bump in condition damage on the PvE set (bump from low to medium allocation).

It’s been tested that in the direct damage formula, power is applied as a full standalone ratio. E.g. power x weapon damage x other stuff = damage. Double power = double damage.

Zerk has roughly 40% more power than Rampager. I assume this ratio stays the same between PvE and sPvP gear.

If you make a few assumptions it’s pretty easy to compare a large part of the model:

Zerk: 40% more power, 60% crit damage, 28% crit
Rampager: 40% crit

Pretend for a moment you have a moderate 20 Dom and 20 Dueling (200 power, 200 prec, 20% crit damage):

Zerk: 30% more power (both sets get +200 power, decaying the delta), 80% crit damage, 38% crit
Rampager: 50% crit, 20% crit damage

Expected direct damage:

Rampager: 1 * (1+.5*.7) = 1.35
Zerk: 1.3 * (1+.38*1.3) = 1.94 (sidenote: zerk crits do 75% more damage than rampager crits, which is a large reason why you see some disbelief by players who use Rampager gear when Zerk-gear-users cite their damage numebrs)

Zerk gear does 44% more direct DPS. If you add 250 power from 25 stacks of bloodlust, you’ll still land at >30% advantage for Zerk.

So the question is whether Rampager’s SI-love is really worth it.

SI on 2.5 GS clones (easy calculations, pretty high degree of synergy, doesn’t actually matter for relative comparisons):

Rampager: .5 * 2.5 * 5 * (55+(560/20)) = 519 per sec
Zerk: .38 * 2.5 * 5 (55) = 261 per sec

Rampager has about double the SI pew pew dps.

So the question is 44% more direct DPS for double SI pew pew. Direct DPS of course reduced by armor/tough, bleeds of course susceptible to condition removal with the additional tactical penalty of being “over time”.

You could say that Spatial Surge plows 4k crit damage using Zerk gear every second on a soft-ish target. That’s 2595 Zerk DPS and 1806 Rampager DPS.

Zerk total DPS in this situation is 2600 + 260 versus Rampager’s 1800 + 520, a clear win for Zerk by 23%. Of course, there are usually other attacks that do more direct DPS than autoattack … shrug. Higher armor will reduce the delta. Say you add Protection boon. The comparison is now 2k for Zerk vs. 1720 for Rampager. Throw in a moderate level of armor: 1480 Z vs. 1364 R.

So, Zerk is pretty much going to do more pew pew pew than Rampager, although it is close on armored + protection-booned targets. Also, if weapon damage is factored as base damage upon which power is added, the the whole comparison changes with some tilt towards Rampager, although it was tested to be independent.

Yes Easy, the interesting thing is that you in every listed example is correct, How can this annoying little Azura still cling to hes hs and pistol like its the toys give from hes biggest Idol on his birthday?

I don’t question that — some people don’t have the obsession of killing trash-tier players that try to escape situations they shouldn’t, which is fine. Me, I want them dead, hence the toolset to make it so.

Pistol’s a more interesting argument though, since Pistol is almost always worse than Focus (Focus has the same or better degree of CC, and a Phantasm that’s basically better most of the time if you can position your Void to throw people on top of him).

Also dont forget staff clones with sharper immages is strongest clone dmg possible.

On a single target, a staff clone has a 66% chance of a damaging condition and %crit chance per second of SI.

On a single target, a GS clone has 3x crit chance per second of SI. Assuming an even 50 crit chance (non-Rampager gear or mix of Rampager and non-prec gear), that is:

Staff: 1.16 bleeds per second
GS: 1.5 bleeds per second

Of course WOC can bounce, making Staff clones potentially more interesting / more valuable for other reasons, but it doesn’t win by any significant margin.

The trend I say is that with the less defensfull weps you need that thoughtness etc, I need my pistol and staff. And my team need my staff more than my GS.

That facet depends on the situations. GS/Sword/x has more burst, so depending on the fight you obviate any need for toughness. Staff is typically slower-killing (although it doesn’t need to be that way depending on playstyle), so toughness typically becomes more effective.

I think a pretty good tweaking of the buff would be +50/80/100 rather than just 50/100/150.

Other than something as direct as a stat buff, ANet doesn’t have many options to throw in extra fun objectives like Orbs.

Really? Do tell. How many moves have you made? I know that losers transfer to better situations.

Two: I xferred off of JQ two weeks ago when JQ won by a kittening landslide during the collapse of HOD and picked up a kittenon of transfer trash. I xferred back to group up with some guildies because the server I xferred to was winning by far too much.

I’ll be xferring back there today because they’ll probably have a very, very interesting matchup this week.

You assume just because servers are in a top tier they are there because of skill.

No, I don’t. Perhaps you should start reading what I post so you can make more accurate assumptions.

I specifically said capacity, which includes a composite of population, motivation, leadership, and skilled players.

Come back to me in a few months when the servers even out

The servers will never “even out” any more than the current spread. Some servers will be stronger than others. Some servers will not even be part of the competition.

I’ll tell you what, next time we play a match with your server, whatever it is, I’ll meet you out in the open field, just me and you, and we will see who walks away alive.

1V1 REMATCH SOLO MID

Face the fact, the buffs are gone and there really is no argument here. Be mad about it but it won’t change anything.

The buffs are gone for good reason — the cheating and exploiting surrounding them is absurd. I remember when we had to assign people to literally keep their eyes on the orb to look for bugs occurring with the altar or with enemy players exploiting through geometry to attack the altar or take the orb. And that’s not even touching on the recent b.s. various servers have reported.

However, they are a fun mechanic. Nothing like holding the only orb for your server due to raw skill when the only thing you own is the inner keep at Bay, and the entire map is painted by the other servers, not even a supply camp to call your own.

And as I said before and I’ll say it again: the orbs were never what prevented the losing team from getting a foothold or making a comeback. That roadblock is 100% supply mechanics and zero changes are being made to those.

Rampager is pretty overrated. It has moderately higher Sharper Images uptime at a cost of doing a kittenton less damage.

Edit: Would be curious for someone to go through the effort to model it. Should be fairly straightforward for the most part.

Pretty much only good when you are maximizing SI using a build that stacks Might consistently to make up for the low raw power/cdmg.

sceptus.9415:

The only thing you know is you want the buffs. The only thing I know for sure is that they are no longer there. Now we have reality.

I also know that losers will still lose, and winners will still win.

I also know that the servers in 3rd place will not be able to make comebacks due to the supply mechanics.

I also know that I’ve played with 0 orbs against 3 plenty of times to know exactly how much difference it does (or does not) make.

The only issue that I see with the upcoming nerfs is that it could ruin some builds that aren’t pure glass cannons.

Totally agree with this, hence my recommended changes which would more or less improve general thief builds and QOL/usability while spacing out the actual broken combo.

You don’t know me from Adam, so you don’t know what I want. I speak for the majority when I say this was a needed change.

I know what you want with the same certainty that you know what the majority wants (or needs).

15% health/150 stats = over powered characters. Some people like to PvP in WvW and even capping camps is a struggle with the orbs, sorry, over, powered.

I cap camps solo with no orb buffs. If your entire server has a struggle to cap a single supply camp, the problem is not with orb buffs.

Orb buffs are basically the last thing in a long list that impacts the results of any battle. Bad players hold the buffs out as some sort of holy grail of balance or some panacea for their poor performance. It’s simply pointless.

As I said previously, it’s good that ANet took it out to deal with the cheater/hacking/exploit issues. However, Orbs add a lot of entertainment and dynamics to WvW, and they should definitely be added back when they can.

Meanwhile, tuning of the real WvW imbalances would be very nice.

STRanger.5120:

Well, in that situation, I was killed by a staff Elementalist as he just looked at me, nerf them!!!!
/irony
Show proof or get lost, I can make things up too….

Are you serious? I checked my combat log and rolled my eyes. Why should I screenshot something that happens often enough that it’s not surprising?

Tbh, when I was looking at my log I was most curious about how much damage the Thief did in excess of my HP, and that CND+Mug+Air by itself could take most of my HP, nevermind the actual 18k backstab.

If you want to argue that the damage is fine, then you have an uphill battle but at least there would be a discussion. However, being blind to the normal glass cannon damage levels in WvW just means you’re ignorant and wasting board space.

Edit: And like I said, Warriors can exceed 20k with single attacks like HB cheese or Kill Shot alone. However, those capabilities are not instant and are far more telegraphed. Hence, they can be dealt with even with how cheesy they are.

STRanger.5120:

For the 4th and the last time, outdated/WvW screens/videos doesn´t count….
Class balance must be determined based on a balanced circumstances (equal quality gear, no orb bonuses etc…)

You´re kinda consistent about ignoring this fact, don´t you think? Just leave, you won´t be missed….

Outdated?

Balanced circumstances?

I was combo’d for 33k damage when I had 3 orbs (e.g. I had 150 bonus toughness) within 0.3 seconds. By Thieves from different servers.

Ignoring facts?

Son, learn what your class is capable of then come back to the discussion.

sogeou.7845:

Also you can’t look a some SS. There was a glitch which one rune set was giving 50% extra damage. I saw lots of people including some thieves using this bug. Button line is a thief won’t kill someone in .03 second. If all things are equal it will take a few.

Nice troll attempt to mislead with the Rune reference that increased total damage by 3%.

There are a lot of opinions on both sides of the orb buff discussion. You’re pretty delusional if you think you speak for everyone.

He never said anywhere he only wants to win, he only wants fairness. Winning isn’t a priority to some.

He obviously wants to win, because pre-change was already fair.

It’s the same as all the servers crying about old-HOD 24×7 map presence. If you don’t have the capacity to win, then you lose. Taking and holding orbs is a demonstration of capacity — whether that is sourced from raw skill, tactics, population, motivation. PPT is the exact same. Orbs are a result of server disparities, not a cause of them.

Hence, there is little difference and people will still be crying about domino WvW matchups 7 days from now.

The real change to game flow balance is going to be with supply. Supply is the currency of WvW, and it’s Nth tier scrubs that think that +50 stats makes them lose. Hopefully ANet will tune the flow of supply and toss Orbs back in for fun at the same time.

STRanger.5120:

@sogeou.7845:

Don´t worry, I´m pretty much aware of that But thanks fo support

I don’t think you’ve ever had the opportunity to listen to soge talk about himself for 15 minutes straight.

This thread started off funny with the backstab discussion, but this is even more hilarious.

Oh man, soge calling me a troll. I should have recorded Vent.

For explanation to everyone arguing here, I´m not telling that Thief is Balanced or OP or UP, I just want ppl to deliver proofs if they are telling something.

Proof’s already in the thread. You’re sticking your head in the sand and/or are ignorant of your own class.

It’s pretty absurdly easy to set up the gear to do this — it’s the same setup to get >25k Kill Shots on Warriors or other absurd damage numbers on almost any class. The difference is that Thieves have the toolkit to do it instantly, with no telegraph, and from range. All while having categorically superior “GTFO” mechanisms.

What fight?

It starts and ends within 0.3 seconds.

You know? (That’s a rhetorical question, because if you actually played the build, you would know)

STRanger.5120:

Ok, if you want to persuade Thief players, show an actual video-proof of someone doing that in sPvP/tPvP environment (not some outdated Jinzu´s burst build video please…)
I will believe it then

Edit: missing letter.

We already have screenshots demonstrating the kittendation of the mechanics + build + gear.

Do me a favor and go back and actually read the thread, particularly my posts, where I already documented the key reasons why the capability is currently overpowered and the ways to fix it.

It’s hilarious that thieves think they should automatically kill players just by looking in their direction.

Tactics are needed again. Fair play is returned. Tonight will be a glorious night indeed!

Tactics … like acquiring Orbs?

If you didn’t have the tactics or capacity to take or hold Orbs before, you will continue to lose after the change.

What about the outmaned buff? It’s probably one of the most useless things i’ve seen in a pvp game so far….and that includes pokemon and hello kitty world.
/sarcasm

Outmanned could obviously use tweaks. Outmanned players should get +5 supply carry capacity automatically. Possibly some other WvW-relevant tweaks. Outmanned supply camps / yaks could probably use fringe buffs as well.

@EasymodeX – lol the orb stat bonuses are fine? After the patch last night our server went from being completely dominated in the spawn to holding territory again. Fights were fair. You can’t explain actual results away.

Anecdotal. Your opponent server probably stopped playing since it’s Thursday and matches reset Friday. This flow of population has been evidenced in almost every tier almost every week almost every match.

Losing servers will still lose without orbs. Orbs or no orbs really won’t make the kind of difference you want.

Or maybe a 30k damage combo still does 15k damage against stacked Toughness within 0.3 seconds with 8 Initiative left over.

Only limitation of Mesmers outside of Orr farming in PvE is the lack of a passive run speed signet which is very very important to some people.

Easiest builds to smash Mesmers are GS/Rifle (if you have the initiative) or Hammer / short Burst cycling (too much AOE and inherent CC/short range movement).

Axe is the most susceptible build to kiting.

Surprisingly, you get kited by a Mesmer using the strongest kite weapons (GS and Sword/x).

It’s just easy. I swear there will be a DPS nerf to mesmer at some point. I just roll 1v1’s in WvW. The exception here is another GS+shatter mesmer which requires me to actually try (and usually comes down to who’s got the better gear).

Nice Mantra build. It is pretty faceroll …

Until you get facerolled even hard by a backstab gimmick thief. Lawls.

1. If you have lots of other people CC’ing for you, sure.

2. Staff still chases for kitten.

3. Pistol stun + Sword iLeap <<< Focus Into the Void + Sword iLeap

4. 1200 range GS cripple >>> Staff.

5. 1200 range instant DPS >>> 1200 range projectiles that don’t land because the enemy is moving away from you.

6. 1200 range phantasm that hits >>> 1200 range phantasm whose projectile doesn’t land.

Staff is a defensive weapon, which is in many cases more interesting for a small group v. X skirmish.

However, Staff doesn’t make stuff die. People can run away pretty easily. If you’re in a position where “the enemy runs away” = win, then you win. Most of the time, winning to me = they die. GS makes stuff die.

All the tools you list to improve chasedown are equally applicable to GS/x. Shrug.

No, no, and no.

The orb stat buff is fine the way it is. Everyone wants bigger numbers. Orbs are a great motivator and point of WvW contention. They make WvW more fun.

The #1 problem is the cheating.
The #2 problem is that they’re not all that hard to take (compared to DAOC).

People are strawmanning the losing servers losing because of the orb bonuses. Orb stat bonuses do not play a critical role in the winning server winning. They are more of a symptom and result, not a cause. The cause relates to [player skill x organization] and supply mechanics.

As I said before, fix supply pooling and the poor supply decay of the currrent game, and you fix the domino (as much as it should be fixed). Make siege a bit cheaper to purchase to compensate their faster decay. And you have GG.