Guild Wars 2

I like doing it to people that do it and did not deserve to do it. This one mesmer jumped into a fight I was in with 2 people (a ranger and a guardian). The guardian ran off mid fight when he was low health and the ranger binding roots me with my CD’s up. So I began to focus on the ranger. I’m down to about 1/3 of my health when the ranger goes down and this mesmer jumps me and finishes me off before I could finish the fight.

The mesmer does a /laugh. I was right next to our keep with a spawn point. So I spawned there and found the mesmer… alone… without the ranger. As I spiked him I did a /laugh. Didn’t see him after that…

Absolutely. The is a great idea. And it will help the playerbase know if there is an actual population cap issue. Even if it is not an exact number of all 3 sides, but instead a percentage basis.

But yes, # in queue before me is a must have.

Bunker build is NOT what the OP was discussing. In fact, the OP said survivability-wise, eles are fine with the one exception that our cannon is lacking for the amount of glass we are.

This is a true statement. People can deny it all they want but it still takes a long time to kill someone compared to other classes that have the same level of survivability as we do (spec-wise). Now, I personally like how long it takes an ele to kill someone. I actually think it is the right level 10-15 seconds assuming ur not hitting a bunker build. I think the other classes that can kill someone faster without as much effort are the ones that need fixing. But since there are several classes that can do that (warr, thief) and you’ll be pissing off more people that way, give eles the boost.

100% our damage is still crap for the amount of work a player puts in to do it.

So I’m sitting there and I have friends entering BL from queue before me (who queued after I did). I relogged and went to Lion’s Arch. Set up for the BL I wanted to join and said yes.

Then I went to check another BL and hit the button to join it, another queue, so I said no. But immediately afterward, the Queue box for Lion’s Arch overflow popped up and was already 2/3 of the way counting down (1/3 of the time remaining). I never saw the box. It was like it was shown but not displaying.

So a possible race condition for displaying the queue dialog box or there is some sort of logic error for the logic box counting down but not being rendered on screen.

Hope that helps.

@Antiriad – again, that has been happening to me for at least 2 weeks. Not a recent change, but I too noticed that (where movement stops after RTL, annoying when u r trying to use it to move faster).

Again, I will reiterate, this is the same as it has been for a while now. Not sure what you guys are seeing but the image in one of the first posts has been the way it has been for at least 1 week if not 2.

Tested it. No difference from before the patch. Goes out effected by gravity but will eventually stop moving forward and go straight down. Been like this for a few weeks at least.

To chime in, Cone of Cold heals the ele too. Just thought I’d share.

As for the patch, think it was good. Am I biased… Prolly.

Not sure I agree with the mismatched pop limits in a home BL. The goal of the home BL commanders is to cause the invaders to attack each other over the towers and the isle between them. Once that occurs, you can begin moving your force en masse easier.

And it is actually not overly difficult to do due to the zerg mentality.. which is that it is easier to spawn at the border, walk a short distance and hit an enemy right there… then it is to spawn at the border, walk a long distance to hit an enemy where they have a respawn advantage.

Ok, everyone that is saying RTL was changed, did you just come back to the class because of the recent patch? If so, maybe it was like this for a while and you just don’t recall.

I’ll check again tonight and I’m sure I’ll see a difference immediately (I use RTL in every fight)… but last night it was fine.

If its 166 per map per side… that could very well be the issue.

If 15 are bots and 5-10 are in the jumping puzzle… and … 5 are hitting skill point A and 5 are hitting skill point B… that’s 35. That’s 21% of the total population right there.

I’m starting to think this may have been the cause of the mismatch I witnessed. When the servers restarted, the botters were not back in and we finally had the appropriate numbers involved in WvW (all the PvE’rs went to do the halloween stuff).

I’m thinking this is proof of the issue.

I seem to recall RTL doing this before the patch. Like if you jump off the south side of a garrison keep and hit RTL, it goes out for a bit but then stops and goes straight down. It has been like this for a while now.

After the patch, I played for quite a while and did not notice any difference in RTL. I still jump before RTL so I don’t know if their other bugs were fixed. It’ll be a hard habit to break.

prolly cuz people got tired of waiting and just logged off… figured they could wait till tomorrow

Patching during NA primetime: Epic fail

11:30 eastern isnt exactly primetime, but I know many people who are/were still playing.

Dropping everyone and making them repatch during primetime NA… not sure that’s wise.

Just a suggestion, maybe pick a better patch time?

PS: think ur servers are puking cuz it keeps saying connection issues. normally, i patch instantly.

It seems like lately when I have gone to a BL or EB… I get a queue. When I enter the zone, we seem to be vastly outnumbered. It is not like we have multiple fronts. Everyone is fighting the same fight (there are no other crossed swords).

But we are outnumbered. Not only that, but this was in a home BL. We could spawn at citadel and fight at a tower and there were more of them then us.

Something is not right. I would REALLY like ANet to verify the logic is correct. My assumption is that all 3 sides are even to a max number per side. I’m hoping its not the stupid idea that there is just a max number for all sides period and the sides mismatch.

Finally, I am hoping that all these guild mates that logged off in WvW and still display as being in WvW in the guild window are not counting towards our server’s pop count.

No to friendly fire.

As to the OP’s idea, won’t help much. Most players play WvW cuz its fun not for the rewards. Could care less for xp, karma and such from the events (tho the silver is nice for repair costs).

Daecollo.9578:

Rangers…. are rangers and are very special.

hehe, no need to be mean

Enemies -= 1; //decrement the number of enemies involved in the fight by 1

Altho in teh case of the aoe burster the number 1 is variable.

Now, I want to reiterate that I don’t want a blanket nerf to thieves. Frankly, I’ve been on these boards so long and involved in these discussions so much that I’ve heard everything, from both sides… a gajillion times. Heck, I’ve even rolled a thief, played them in sPvP, studied thief builds etc… (especially after the 1st instagib). A blanket nerf is not the answer. An insta-gib nerf is. A stealth fix is. These 2 things would go a LONG way to fixing the thief. Once those are fixed, then we can really discuss balance again. Until then, thief is OP especially when configured to use the traits that it is supposed to (stealth and surprise) due to the ability to do massive damage without being seen.

What should a thief do for their allies? Finishing (picking off people in a fight)… actually in my mind a thief should be the +.5 to a fight that causes their side to win instead of lose (a la combat support). Scouting and intelligence. Combat with an ability to escape. Ability to enter and leave a battle at will. I don’t agree with their high damage… but… (shrug).

I also do not agree with being a master of 1v1. I think a thief in a situation of 1v1 should have to fight tooth and nail with several mini hit and run tactics. Etc…. Fight, re-enter stealth to get better position, strike again. Essentially gnat their way to killing someone. To me a thief is supposed to be agile (hard to hit) but when you do land a hit on a thief, it should be decimating. But if you just ignore them, they kill you too. The thief should NOT be WW2 submarines (stealth and then ur dead). I’m jez sayin.

They can re-enter stealth as long as they do not get the Revealed debuff. They get the Revealed debuff if they attack from stealth.

However, there is nothing stopping a thief from using a stealth, waiting for the icon to disappear, striking their target and hitting stealth again. The effect? To a laggy or slower PC prolly looks like perma-stealth.

Should it be fixed? Probably. Will it? Doubtful.

No backstab nerf? Prolly will level my thief… and by backstab nerf, I mean the broken mechanic of steal, cnd, bs, dead. The super burst backstab thief. Backstab itself, I think is ok. But the insta-gib has to go.

Supposed to be or actual?

If you go with supposed to be, I’ll reference the advertisement on the front page (which I’ve argued this before and its hard to see an advertisement as true, but for the sake of argument…). Stealth and Surprise with an agile defensive style. (notice the lack of the word damage, burst, assassination, death and destruction)…

If you go with what they are… I’ve seen thieves do massive AoE damage to huge groups of people killing lots of foes… I’ve seen massive spike damage that instantly kills unsuspecting victims…. I’ve seen thieves run from a group of 3-4 people getting away at speeds that are quite ridiculous (like they are running out of combat while everyone else was running in combat)… I’ve seen thieves use bows and pistols do drop people very quickly (not either of their advertised abilities but potent nonetheless)… shall I continue?

Not a good come back Daecollo.

Not sure if OP knows what Daze is. Daze is an effect with a purple background and a white swirl on it. That’s daze.

If you are on ur kitten that is a blowback, blowdown, knockback or knockdown. If you standing there looking stupid, that is a stun.

D/D has a 2 blowback,blowdown, knockback and knockdown abilities (earthquake and updraft). We can also supplement that with a stun (the shield from air attunement)…. D/D has 1 immobilize (#3 on Earth attunement) and if the ele has a brown signet in their list, then they get 1 more immobilize (Earth Signet). Churning Earth does a cripple and so does water #3 (altho i think that’s a chill actually).

With all of that, the durations do not last long enough to be perma-stunned or whatever. In fact, you’re looking at like 10s or so. More if you kept hitting the stun shield but not very much. Unfortunately, most of those abilities are on long cooldowns. So, just outlast em.

Now, as a warrior? Get full adrenaline and hit kill shot. Most eles cannot handle the hit.

The thief backstab burst is not effected by your advice. Your advice requires some form of reaction time.

I remember this one thief. I was going up this hill in WvW and he was at the top of the hill and alone. I thought, ok, I’m ready, let’s do this. So I started moving towards him and he was looking right at me. I knew he saw me and I knew he knew I saw him. Suddenly, he disappears and my initial thought is “where did he go”. Unfortunately, that was also my last thought before I saw the downed state. Three hits (steal, cnd, backstab) downed. I’m not tanky but it was a real kick in the pants. Even if I had gone more tanky (which is only about 400 more toughness anyway) he would have finished me with 2 heartseekers.

The problem is, you don’t have time to react before you are downed. Even if you do a preemptive dodge, he can just wait for your dodge to end and then pop you. No venom needed. No stunbreaker needed. It was… ok, let’s fight.. dead. Seriously.

So your advice, does not fix the problem. I don’t have a problem fighting thieves 1v1 when they are not specced like this. Sometimes I win, sometimes they do. But a burst backstab build is ridiculous.

So… while your advice has been said before, it does not fix the problem. Thieves are not broken. There is a particular build of the thief that is.

And to respond to the whole toughness/vitality opinion, my toughness and vitality are fine in 1v1 and 1v2 (outnumbered) against all other classes including warriors. So why should I have to downgrade all of my other abilities just so I can counter a cheap trick that probably would not be negated by doing so anyway? Logic is flawed.

Suck it up and join sPvP. This was the biggest help to my WvW play. Learn what you can do to kill people. After all, war is not about dying for your country, its about making the poor kitten on the other side of the field die for his country.

If you are really timid, go to the north side of the PvP island and fight the AI there (there is one for each class). Learn how to beat them. Once you have done that, you can fare well in sPvP. Go in to sPvP.

Don’t go in to sPvP to win. Go in to learn. You will die. There are no repair costs. You can monkey with your build and then go in again. It is PERFECT for tuning your abilities in pvp.

Once you have done that, then I would recommend staying away from EB. Do a BL. If you like an uphill fight, do an opposing BL. If you like fighting from a solid footing, do your own BL.

Find a competent leader and stick with them. See what needs to be done. Learn to listen and anticipate. Learn to grab supply. etc…

Mirtis, I am shaking my head at the fact that you really are trying to defend Backstab with Fire Grab. You do realize they are 45 seconds apart right? Your argument would hold water if you could use Fire Grab repeatedly. So, based on your logic, Backstab should have a 45 second cooldown. I think I’m ok with that. (rolls eyes)

And if you’ve ever played an ele and used Fire Grab, you’ll realize it misses more than it hits. Jez sayin.

EDIT: and just to reiterate, if you miss with Fire Grab, you still wait 45 seconds. No redo.

Ya, as already mentioned there are server restarts and patches that force you to reboot. They also force WvW to restart.

Don’t like the OP’s idea. I think the orbs shouldn’t stack their effects and should only apply to the map that hte orb resides. One orb being controlled should be the Major Orb bonus.

So if you own the orb in your Borderlands, you get an effect of Major Orb bonus. But go to the enemy Borderlands where your side does not have the orb and you no effects from orbs.

Please give us notifications of when the servers will be down. Ideally, you should give us a schedule of when to expect a downtime.

As a primarily WvW player, I can tell you this is very frustrating. Last week, we had just finished building 5 or 6 trebs and then the server goes down. Granted, the trebs are there when the server comes back up, but none of our people are there. That means that the enemy gets to kill 5 or 6 trebs (we were closer to their spawn than ours).

Last night, the enemy was hitting a keep with a bunch of siege when you took the server down. When it came back up, we bee-lined for it to take it down stopping their siege.

You are talking about good amounts of silver and gold being lost due to unannounced server downs. If there was adequate warning of a server down, people would factor that into their strategies and plans.

At the minimum, give us an hour warning of a server down. Preferrably, give us more communication regarding a server down (a schedule or a calendar). You guys have to know when you are going to do maintenance and patchwork. It is not professional otherwise.

This has been a feature in games as far back as EQ1 (from what I can recall). Just a little communication goes a long way.

@Kaizer – u remind me of the liberal media. Taking things out of context to make it fit what you want it to. So… I’ll come back at ya. Using those words, thieves can no longer do damage (their damage should be below most other classes) when specced for stealth and surprise. Deal? Thought so.

@Shooopa – it may not be as easy as I think, but I see thieves do massive amounts of burst damage and still be able to easily get away, not just from me but from 3 or 4 others… all using closers and such. Now, with that being said, I think of all of the classes in the game, Thief should be the one that can stealth and get away. It makes sense. That’s not what is in question. What is in question is that they get their cake and get to eat it too in that they can do massive amounts of burst damage. I have had many discussions on these forums regarding thieves and in almost every discussion EVEN the thieves agree on this fact. If you want to hear my thoughts or theirs, click my name do a search on my recent posts and read them. I do not intend to fight the same fight over and over again.

@Mirtis – there are a ridiculous amount of condition removal in this game. You should do a search for them and enjoy the read.

To all, please do a little more research before posting. The same issue Americans have with politics, I’m afraid. (sigh)

Still have to repair. Still have a lil broken ego issue.

Auto-loot is a must. I did the work, I killed a guy… I don’t get my reward because there were 20 other people standing around and my client didn’t render the bag? That’s bogus.

EDIT: and dude, 4 10-slot bags? Really? Loosen the purse strings a bit. I have 95 open slots in my inventory and I consider myself frugal.

Kaizer.7135:

Warriors have INVULNERABILITY buffs, Mesmers have clones, Warriors can GET UP from downed state and can still survive..

You calling us OP?

Yes.

Warriors I can evade. I can dodge a warrior. I can react to a warrior. I can see a warrior. I can joust and outplay or be outplayed a warrior. Same goes for Mesmer. Warriors and Mesmers, I do not have to cater my entire build just to be able to survive or fight against them.

These things are not true for a burst thief.

That might have been it. Thanks Med. I’ll look at the screen again and see if I can find the pet. Good call!

Took all of SF’s peeps.

Nah, but good job SoR. And to think, I remember killing you just 4 weeks ago…

Ya, just gonna chime in here and say that most of your victims prolly didn’t know you were there.

Sorry, but this is a prime exmple of why people think thief is OP. First, you never see it coming, by the time you do, ur on the ground. Cannot WAIT for that bug to be fixed.

Wish I could do that kind of damage. sigh

Shooopa.5632:

Their HP.

A thief has the second-lowest amount of HP in the game. If they fail to kill you or escape, they will die. Period.

Not period. You are quite mistaken. In my experience, they just run away and escape. So… all the massive quick strike ability with little risk.

As for the people that say to continue casting and such, a good thief doesn’t run in a straight line. Point invalid.

Edenwolf.6328:

snip A typical backstab usually crits me for 4-7k, I have been hit by a good ele fire grab for that much so these numbers are not entitled to thief alone. snip

Except that backstab hits each time you are invisible and behind your target.

Fire grab only does that kind of damage if you are burning (which requires more effort to ensure and can be cancelled by condition removal). Further, if you (the target) move, fire grab will likely miss. Regardless, you will be waiting 45 seconds to use it again. Point invalid.

Last night I killed someone. I thought I was fighting a mesmer, but I could be wrong. Downed them. Then I got hit for 6k damage by Smoke Bomb.

How does that happen? Smoke Bomb is a thief skill (downed state afaik) and does not do damage.

Is this a bug? Should I report it? I took a screenshot of it, if needed. But I wasn’t sure if the guy just finished a combo or something using Smoke Bomb (is Smoke Bomb a finisher?).

I like it. Good idea sami.

No… not crap at high tier. Definitely not. But then, where do they fit in the high tier? Where should they fit? And how far are they from that position? Is the differential what is causing the perceived imbalance?

dang, I wrote like 5 pages of stuff and I editted it all out. I don’t know how to fix the thief while keeping it true to what it is. I hope ANet does.

Think I’ll go with Edelweiss on this.

On a semi-related note, I’ll take a side bet that 100b gets batted this time.

Very well, and based off of your other posts I think you and I both agree that in general… the thieves ability to off someone as fast as they do needs ot be addressed… and we can both agree that a blanket nerf (such as backstab needs reduction or all thief abilities need reduced) is unacceptable.

However, I do disagree that pressing x repeatedly is easier than pressing yzx (cuz how do you know yzx will work in this situation?). Does it do all the things that pressing x does? no? does it take more time between x pressing then pressing yzx? no? That to me does indicate a problem.

However, contrary to what hte OP stated, there are things that are not really overpowered about the thief. I down and kill plenty of em. In fact, you could say I’ve grown a hatred of anyone with a thief’s signet in their buff window. They get targeted and dropped first, just cuz I can. And yes, my perspective isn’t tPvP. Frankly, I don’t care about tPvP and if game balance was all about tPvP, I wouldn’t play this game. Keep that in mind when you counter-point that balance in tPvP is the important factor.

With all of that said, there is a very apparent issue when the easiest class to “master” is also the hardest hitting class. And I think that is what most players consider unbalanced. Why play anything else when you can win just as easily (or easier) with a 1 button class? But the OP did mention a huge issue… the thief does not have to sacrifice damage potential to gain a defensive edge. This gives the thief advantage.

And finally to relate back to “as advertised” which I know you don’t put much stock in… and frankly no one should. But the thief does fit the agile defensive style… the stealth mechanics and such. But because that style is so different than everything else in the game, should they also have the highest damage potential?

Panties officially unbunched. But don’t tell my wife I wore em.

Ya that 3g comment made me cringe. I hope you haven’t done that too many times.

4s. All it takes. And make sure you go to Heart of the Mists to monkey around for free before figuring out your final build.

As for the rest, I don’t really agree or disagree.

Well, oddly enough, looks like we’ll have a rematch next week if things continue at this rate. http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

SF will actually lose score due to the close match with AR.

@Wolfe – the point is that AS ADVERTISED (which is what my post said if you read it instead of skimmed) the thief is NOT the master of damage. It is the perception of the general population (who may or may not know that a dev somewhere along the lines said anything relevant to the matter). The fact that I brought in the elementalist was to show an example of advertising damage. Also, if you read ABOVE my post (instead of skimming which I’m sure you did), you will see several people mention that thieves were meant to be masters of damage. This is what I was replying to.

kthxbye

It is funny that thieves generally believe they are supposed to be the masters of damage…

Unfortunately, I do not see that “as advertised” on the site. The text for the thieves is:

Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

Oddly enough, the “masters of damage” should generally be rewarded more towards the Elementalist (who consequently are reknown for their lack of damage).

Elementalists are multi-faceted spellcasters that channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.

What drives me crazy is when they do “routine” maintenance or a random patch without giving us any heads up or warning about it. Is that what you are referring to or was it an actual server crash?

Actually, I think the orb buff should be single map only… not orbs for all maps in WvW (meaning if my server owns an orb in map 1 and an orb in map 2, we do not get the major bonus…). Also, the buff is only applied to players of that server in that map.

This avoids tipping the scales too much but still gives enough incentive to get the orbs or for them to matter in strategic choices.

At which point, I would also consider changing the bonus for a single orb to be the major orb bonus.

I know why ANet made the orb bonus’ the way they are, but I do not agree with the stacking of bonus effects or with how the effects translate to other maps.

EDIT: because i may sound a lil confusing… an orb bonus is no longer universal across all maps but only on the map that the orb resides. So, if my server owns hte orb in our borderlands, we get the bonus but only when we are in that zone. Furthermore, the bonus is the Major bonus. The effects of owning orbs in other borderlands will not matter to me unless I go to those borderlands.

That’s funny, cuz we had someone doing that exact same thing to us. We were attacking Shad and trying to make a good run at it when someone starts blabbing that Garr was under attack. Me thinks there are spies all over the place. Luckily, our scouts are a lil better than that.

Ya, I posed in the suggestions forum. This random patching crap has to stop.

Please, you have got to stop randomly patching. Give us a few hours heads up.

You HAVE to be more communicative with us.

Here’s why, we had JUST (within the last 10-15 minutes) put up over 5 Trebs to take down a keep we have been working on all day… as we finally get everything rolling… BAM… time to be booted.

This is the 2nd week in a row you have done this to us.

SO, PLEASE… a little heads up from now on.

Biggest thing needed is no influence lost for a guild transferring servers. On SF, we get up to about 5 minute queue times during peak hours but that’s only when we’re winning…

Don’t like the idea of an Overflow.