Guild Wars 2

Lokheit.7943:

Eodwen.2613:

Putting aside the underwleming venoms, am i wrong to say that va needs an expirience skill and coordination from the group as a whole and not just you to work? Is it ok for the effectiveness of a build to to be so depended on other people in the group? Its pretty mucha no go with pugs and even with organised groups i think there are other tactics that require much less work to be just as a efective. And then VA offers nothing in solo situations and using venoms just isnt worth it without it.

It needs experience? Yes, it needs, but it’s far from bad. As I said I’m having excellent results with it. Once you know how to correctly move, you can time you venoms correctly and use them when allies are moving through choke points to get the max from sharing. It’s one of the most interesting parts of the sharer build, learning how to move in the battlefield to support allies.

I can see why a lot of people won’t like it at first, and feel that it’s really bad, because it needs practice, so the would like some more direct approach or effect like with other professions.

You will rarely share with 5 (except some pre-fight preparation and zergs) but that’s fine, if you share with 1 to 3 others you optimize it (take into account that sharing is making a skill x2, x3, x4… as effective as it is, so the trait is very potent for the venoms that are good).

Also, your sugestion takes away all the “support” part as it no longer takes allies. Thief has enough individualistic skills. My Spider Venom is a brutal tool, once I share it, I and all my allies inflict 2.5K armor ignoring damage + healing. Let’s say I’m fighting in a base, I summon Thieves Guild and have a couple of allies around, and we spike someone. 12.5K armor ignoring damage in adition to the normal damage (plus poison to negate healing and my devourer venom to perma root him) and that’s a dead guy for sure. I have a lot of fun when I’m running with someone and we reach to a base with an opponent trying to capture it, I instantly share my 2 venoms and the other guy explodes.

In wvw yeah its still subpar in tpvp and pve.

Red Falcon.8257:

Rangers are pretty much free kills for a Thief right now, even good Rangers.
At least now they have something to make their inevitable death a bit less embarassing.

Not is spvp they aint. Balance shouldnt be opted for based on wvw if there is a problem in wvw it should be dealt with in wvw only. And for ther record i never complained for stealth trap.

And compared to support skill buffs other classes are getting….. remove conditions aoe , stability etc.

Putting aside the underwleming venoms, am i wrong to say that va needs an expirience skill and coordination from the group as a whole and not just you to work? Is it ok for the effectiveness of a build to to be so depended on other people in the group? Its pretty mucha no go with pugs and even with organised groups i think there are other tactics that require much less work to be just as a efective. And then VA offers nothing in solo situations and using venoms just isnt worth it without it.

As a thief im fine with anti stealth going in wvw along with incentive to make our class play the game instead of trolling other people. I just hope they dont start implementing anti stealth in tpvp. In tpvp the mechanics are already rendering stealth useless but alot of thieves stil rely on stealth to escape , remove conditions and heal. Maybe wont make that much of a difference but it could still be fustrating in tpvp.

Shoe.5821:

re: other posters, I agree that warriors are too good at running away too. Most of their mobility skills probably need a Ride-the-Lightning like mechanic where cooldowns are double if they do not hit something.

But most classes in the game have limited ability to escape, and only the thief can actively pick and choose what they want to fight. As opposed to everyone else, who needs

Warrior can escape like you said elementalist and mesmer as well necro has spectral walk and guardian might not have mobility to get out of combat but they r guardians and engineer has the elixir that makes him immune to dmg. I dont agree that other most other classes have a limited ability to escape. And Anet opted thief to be this slippery and already nerfed the burst quite considerably to compensate for that.

Objectively speaking necro has an easier time in Pve enviroment namely dungeons and people can be biased not wanting thieves in groups.

+1 for thief though

Yeah but venoms cant be buffed as long as VA trait exists or it ll become OP.

The problem is that with the change in duration stacking you need other people to coordinate so as to not burn all their stacks in the same target. This conflicts with tagging in organised play. As for basilisk venom it could be a nice counter to peep bunkering on points in pvp. I dont think its so horribly overpowered either much like mesmer has imbued diversion which also can be traited to deal dmg vulnerability and stack might and another random boon mind you.

Though i generally avoid wvw i believe perma- stealth is enhanced by the terrain and the long distances in wvw and its also the food and the gear stat contribution that allows kills to be performed so quickly. I really dont think this change wil even have an impact in wvw especially since its single target and the added benefit is situational. Those who didnt use it before patch wont be using it long after the patch. And i read on the ranger forums that alot of peep think the skill is still not worth picking.

However this change might end up being a hard counter in tpvp. Fighting necro ranger warrior 70% of the time nowdays and its already fustrating enough. Im against this being added in tpvp as well.

Concerning the change they making to venomous aura by increasing range to 360. It still gives little motive to use it because of :

1) Placing the buffs to other players is unpredictable
2) Conflicts with tagging due to the soon to be duration stacking nerf
3) Venoms are kinda underperforming.
4) Due to 3 taking up venomous aura and using venoms in more than 1 utility hurts your survivability in solo situations.

My proposal would be to make it so it affects enemies in a radius around the target up to 240 away thus eliminating the first and the second reasons why people generally will keep avoiding building around venomous aura even after the buff imo.

I m not against anti stealth skills in wvw as long as it stays in wvw. Tpvp is a different story. Also thief has little viability in wvw zergs if any at all and is a major part of the troll thief problem. I remember seeing peep say “i think im gonna log my thief and troll some kills in wvw” I think nerfing that is one thing but they need to give back something in return something that would benefit thieves in squads.

If it stays as it is and needs a target to proc then once its used you need to avoid stealth for 10 seconds to avoid being revealed. It also shows up as a buff on pet. To be fair stealth is 100 times better than the problematic pet mechanic rangers use.

I think its an instance shout type skill i dont think it has an animation from the vids i seen. Another problem is the buffs in speed and dmage the pet gets kinda forces you to deal witht he pet someway by wasting inititiave or utility.

I think putting it in tpvp should be avoided and implemented in wvw only. Another thing that bugs me is that if a class could counter stealth shouldnt that be thieves? I mean you need a thief to catch a thief. Besides i think thieves not having a role/ place in wvw zergs is also a major part of the troll thieves problem.

Totally agree with Shemsu and i also believe that in the end this will have very little impact by itself in wvw unless its followed by many more anti stealth more buffs just like anti stealth trap did. Thieves killing randoms and ninja-in points in wvw will persist due to the nature of wvw. On the other hand its spvp that is suffering with each change.

I know it was sarcasm semsu i was trying to build on that

Shemsu.8721:

IHowever I do agree that counterplay is a good thing, so now that rangers can disable thief class mechanic with the press of a single button, where are the skills to disable deathshroud, remove the abillity to summon clones/minions, or disable virtues/burst skills etc?

I do not think adding buffs to selected classes that target specific mechanics of other classes is the way to go. Might as well end up to a rock paper scissor type of balance.

As i said before i really only have a problem with spvp balance and do not consider wvw a base for balance.

idk so far i dont see anything to make up for that. Stealth is like a secondairy mechanic to thieves. Id say it be like giving a class the ability to instantly banish all summoned pets.

Keep in mind support for theif was sup to be carried out through debuffs. On these ground im not getting my hopes up on a makeover prolly just gonna add a secondery effect to the skill.

Totally agree with you doomdesire and i believe stealth should be coutnered when used offensively like using cloack and dagger. But way i see it this is intended to take us out when using an utility to try to heal conditions and hp or run away with black powder/refuge etc. If i were a ranger i would use it when id think the thief would try to break contact. Also i dont play wvw much but i do play spvp and the revelead buff is 4 secs there, plenty of time to get stomped (see last refuge posts). I dont see why anyone should try to strive for balance based on wvw. Its spvp thats supposed to be a balanced.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_'Em%22

Basecally Sick em needs a target to proc but after the change you wont be able to escape by going into stealth.

combined with sword nerf i think its a considerable (edit) problem with theif in 1v1 encounters. On top of that i think ranger is one of the most tough class to beat as a theif. Also stealth is thieves tool to run away from being outnumbered along with ss. If you get revelead by an enemy ranger cxombined with cc from that group… you dead.

Edit:
My personal thoughts on the total preview is this : We get 2 nerfs. One direct and one as a buff that specifically targets our class to another class. We get a mediocre buff to venomous aura (at best) which 1) is laughable compared to support skill buffs other classes are getting, 2) is more heavily based on other peoples skills in contrast with other support skills (shouts, mantras), 3) is offseted by the general nerf in duration stacking more than other buffs.( largerly due to the fact that the buffs are applied instantly to all allies). I wont comment on the pistol change since i have no info.

Would it be bold to say thats next patch the nerfbat hits the thief again?

“Sick ‘Em will now apply ‘Revealed” to enemies they target. We want to introduce some counter play to Stealth (players have asked for that for a while), so we thought a pet “catching your scent” might be a cool way to insinuate some anti-stealth into the game.”

source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/October-15th-balance-skills-updates-preview/first#post2832798

So they didnt change it to intensity tacking five times just nerfed durations tacking then? Thats kinda relieving.

if i understood correctly then aegis will stacks 5 times which would mean 5 attacks will be blocked in the duration you have the buff minus the ones that their duration is up. If this is so the poison will be having added % heal reduced regeneration will have added healing in shorter interval and protection will have added % reduced dmg in shorter interval. Atleast regeneration stacks will be burst healing and stacking healing power might be OP. Maybe it puts pvp on a more strategical level using poison and weakness stacking to offset might stacking and healing stacking protection vs tags and aegis vs mindless aoe spamming. However i am worried about necro condition builds and engii boon builds being OP after patch in pvp.

Firstly im going to ask if this is real or troll. Secondly if this is true isnt regneeration aegis protection stacking horribly OP in some classes?

Here is my thief.

So its not the correct inscription then? The recipe doesnt exist ?

Is there some bug with rediscovery of exotic weapons? I have a soldier orichalcum imbued inscription orichalcum pistol barrel and the ancient pistol frame. I put them in the craftin and it gives me message 1 possible unknown recipe , add more ingridients. Is there a way to override this or did they change something and need more mats?

Like the idea with the venoms effects though id prefer if the traits were moved to deadly arts insteadso as to benefit more from condition duration. I believe also something should be done about residual venom as right now its underperforming, maybe even a merge with another venom trait. The main problem with venom traits in shadow arts imo is that you ned to invest into a tree tha give you no real beenfit from stats and it has no synergy with the minor traits of that tree. moving more traits to shadow arts would hurt the survivability in small encounters as you d already given up utility slots for offensive utilities that work well in group fights.

You can swap weapons while in stealth and use utilities and healing skills also. Depending on what skill its going to be even a non stealth build would be inclined to use stealth to get the advantage from the skill. I often find myself switching to sb while in stealth to immobilise someone in group fights. I think that the issue is what skill would it be so it can benefit non stealth and ranged builds occasionally so as to waste an utility slot for a stealth skill.

Exactly my thoughts they dont need to add another backstap or high dps but some utility/defensive skill or debuff and would defo uff up a lot of duals skills. I think it would also blur the boundaries between the stealth and non stealth builds with less discrete builds coming up which imo is a good thing.

Maybe its just wishfull thinking but wouldnt be neat if dual skills had an extra skill while in stealth like the first skill, one that would cost initiative like the normal dual wield skill. Might end up being OP but i think it d add some interesting diversity to the class.

I been trying alternative setups lately while trying to step away from stealth builds and found a lot of traits are still underperforming

Dagger training: does very little compared to similar traits in other class that get cd reduction and bonus to power/precision/cond dmg etc.

Combined training: same as above this trait only applies to a single skill as well

Power shots: same as above

Flanking strikes: Again i believe this trait should do a little bit more than just 5% dmg

Hard to catch: this trait teleports you randomly when cced but doesnt remove the cc. I find it not helpfull at all as it might just teleport you in the midst of chaos and you need a couple of seconds to figure out where you ended up

Quick Pockets: this trait does very little considering other classes get a new set of skills for free every 45 seconds while our skills are still bound to initiative after swap.

Corrosive traps and master trapper traits: think these too should become a single trait tbh.

Back fighting: do not see a use for this trait really just a left over from beta.

i play p/d sb caltrops as well with 0/0/30/10/30. Using preempty caltrops > steal unto target then stealth in and out using first slot ws to bleed the target more.

With hidden thief trait I usually pre load caltrops > steal unto a target in the middle of a group then dodge away and use pistol opener resulting on 12 – 18 stack of bleeds on 2-3 people the cripple is a bonus as well . Another idea is to use scorpion wire to pull someone back on the caltrops though its buggy as hell. ThiS is more effective when fighting on points where people tend to cluster and aoe more. Using death blossom on top of caltrops can be also effective especially if they are more focused on killing you than dodging away. Thieves guild elite is also a good distraction and the scorpion wire of the npc works better. For solo encounters maybe try ambush trap as you probably will kite someone as your bleeds do the dmg. I have found it a good tactic vs bunker builds.

Also the interrupt from diversion is not instant anyway so you need to be able topredict your opponents behavior to some extent.

Has anyone tried building around imbued diversion on tpvp?
im currently trying out a conditionshatter build with imbued diversion trait and could use some feedback on the effectiveness in group situation.
currently running scepter/pistol staff and 20/20/0/0/30 or 20/0/20/0/30

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAraWlwzaqXTzoGb9ICqHgX1xdkUYasWJF42FC-TwAAzCpIKSVkrITRyisFNWY9xskXAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAraWlwzaqXTzoGb9IhJFBv4oeA+qzdSKMNrB-TwAgyCpIKSVkrITRyisFNWY9xskXAA

My only issue is when im ambused with multiple cc and conditions since i dont have many removals.

Pve dungeons are attrition fights. This si the reason everyone favors heavy armor support roles. If you wish to do dungeons you firt of all need to ensure you can stay alive as much as the next one. So you need to focus on healing traits especially condi removal ones/ and feline grace. i personally favor the shadow rejuvanation trait as well it has saved me a lot. The next thing you need is to be able to give support to your party of some sort as the raw dps output is the last thing everyone looks at in dungeons. Obviously the venom share build comes to mind but personally i find it lacking compared to boon based support i guess the skale venom/venomous aura is ok but i favor shadow rejuvenation a lot more since it has saved me so many times.

Another way is to go support through steal. Since patch with the steal changes the steal based traits have become a lot more potent imo. I favor bountfull theft improvisation and sleight of hand traits.

Lastly you need vit/tough cause the 10k hp build wont cut it. My personall build is condition/survival theif withthe above traits mtioned using either d/d /sb for db spamming or p/d /sb for pew pew bleeds from afar.

What if they made venoms apply on a single attack that lands but could instead activate them multiple times in a row b4 they go on cd. Example spider venom: Your next attack poisons the target, 5 uses. Meaning you can use it to apply poison 5 times instead of just extending the poison duration, making it much more flexible against removal.

On another topic i think Cnd precast → steal into stealth should be changed so that using steal interrupts the casting of CnD.

Piedplat.3597:

the stealth mode is a joke, more time on the “cant-be-stealth” debuff . (sorry cant remember the name I cant see it, the time is short on it…)

http://youtu.be/7799to8aGcQ

I dont know if he’s hacking or not. But if is not, seriously that class and any class with stealth is really OP…

The revealed debuff is 3 seconds and the stealth can go up to 3 seconds if you trait it. WvsWvsW is known to have the issue of not showing the target player right away. That is in fact a wvsw issue and not a class issue.

Steal mechanic still needs a look, with the trais its pretty descent but the base mechanic just adds flavor to the class. In group fights you can choose who to steal from ( in theory cause in practise you steal to kill and not for the item), but in 1v1 you dont have that kind of choice and the item you can steal from someone in pvp isnt always usefull, Also the stolen items are in majority useless in pve. I dont think othere classes need to relly so heavily on traits to compliment their class mechanic.

Also the initiative system needs some tweaking because it is much more constraining than cd system which was ok before the dmg nerfs. It also encourages you to only save initiative for 2 skills out of 5 and thus promoting narrow minded generic play. Moreover the conjuction of weapon skills that cost initiative and the utilities that use cds dont combine too well. I think they should make a low base initiative cost for all skills and a gradual increase in the initiative cost for each individual skill that is spammed in a specific time frame. I think that would allow a lot more liberty for the class.