Guild Wars 2

really?! I yell kitten it failed again!

They acctually do yell that!

Yes give weapon kits pls! And a batman outfit to match! Im not kidding i d love a batman mask to go with assassin armor XD.

As long as you do not suggest very specific things that should be changed in the class it is as vague as saying “Anet please make this game better” without stating any details. If you say you know about thief I don’t see any reason for you to not break it down to specific problematic traits and skills. I don’t understand why people have to present gameplay mechanics they are not fond of as reprehensible. What the OP is saying is by no means griefing.

We can agree that there are a few builds that are very forgiving for thieves such as p/d, but it is not so for the whole profession or the stealth mechanic as a whole.

I see so the wording hints for 0.34s increase. But in actual testing is the increase 0.34s or 0.66s ? If its the later then chill is the opposite of alarcity and the tooltip should be updated.

So CD is counted backwards as you need to deplete the time to use it again. So lets say you have 30 sec cd. Lets take the first second under the effect of chill 30 -1+(1*66/100)=29.66 s . Isolating the chill effect would be -1s +(1s *66/100)= -0.34 s. So in fact instead of reducing cd for one second it only depletes it by 0.34s thus recharging at 33% rate or 66% slower.

Alarcity would be 30s-1s-(1s*66/100)= 28.34 isolating this would be -1s-(1s*66/100)= -1.66s sp 166% rate or 66% faster. I don’t see any problems with this tbh.

@Darksyze: I completely disagree with what you said. Your arguments are non-existent and you theorize that thief is easy, and that thief can win and other can’t when in fact there are classes with way lower skill cap that win in specific game modes, like turret engi and bunker guardian.

I also don’t see why you complain about thieves but there is no mention to pu mesmers who do the exact same thing with one slight difference. An SA specced thief doesn’t have enough power to kill you as he can apply only minimum pressure to you and you need to screw up your rotation to die from him. PU mesmer will eventually kill you unless you withdraw and leave him alone, or you ll end up in a permanent stalemate with him.

You say thief is easy and other classes are working hard to achieve the same result, which is absolutely and totally mistaken. War (GS) and engi( speedy kits and toolkit) achieves the same mobility and higher survivalability with very little effort . You think thief is easy but you don’t give any specific facts about skills or traits that make thief easy and effortless to play and need changing.

I don’t play thief as main, I play mez which is supposed to be hard countered by thieves and I can tell you what you claim is exaggerated and wrong.

Edit: If you are talking about a specific game mode like wvw, you should make specific suggestions that don’t affect other game modes. Nerf thief is not the way to go.

This thread is not constructive in the least all you and are doing is faffing about.

Doesn’t chill make your skills recharge at 33% of the normal rate? So like 100% – 66%? Isnt the opposite of that 100% + 66% = 166%?

Also "infinitely fast recharging initiative "? really? I mean really?!

I don’t want to get into the topic of griefing, However I do want to point out that engi and war have much greater ability to cover ground and escape zergs. Maybe it is because people have always thought of stealth as a cheap trick in the MMO genre that they lash out at thieves. And keep tagging is a valid tactic in wvw.

What I do want to point out is that the OP solutions are as vague as saying plz nerf thief. He makes no specific suggestion of any change on any particular skill. Change stealth trap revealed duration to 1 min +: This will probably have 0 impact whatsoever or will end up being broken. Change cds and initiative for stealth skills: Ok but how much? Which skills do you find problematic? Bp Hs combo is already at 8 initiative and thief has 12 base initiative. Infusion of shadow doesn’t work with stealth stacking. CnD cant provide perma stealth and SR is 60 seconds cd. Op’s third suggestion makes no sense to me so I can’t really comment.

Also the point of both wvw and spvp is not to kill the other player to win. I don’t understand why people are so fixated in killing the thief/bunker engi etc. The game is balanced in a way so you can win via other ways. The real problem here is not that the thief stops you from winning but that you want to kill him just to kill him and you can’t.

Here is my pride and joy Thinking of changing the name to “Vlad is not a vampire” though.

It sure is boring to use all the time. But if you think about it so is the meta for thief in pve which is basically dps dps dps oh shadow refuge to skip or revive someone downed then dps more. Yes people will come out and say thats not all thief does he also cluster bombs on fields… and blinds!!!111, which is wow… lots of play diversity. Build diversity is never bad imo and i strongly believe that traps/venoms/tricks should be buffed to somewhat as useful as deception/signet skills atleast for pve.

On a side note i think venomous aura with cc venoms can see some play with the new wyvern mechanics they have shown.

What sagat says is true and you do go sa and put shadow embrace in first tier. However is that enough without slotting hide in shadows or another stealth utility? Cnd to condi remove , I can go with that even though you would have to go melee to or steal combo which can be a hassle. D/p costs way too much for condi removal. I do agree with treating venoms more like meditations.

Its not just that venom builds need more condi cleanse, but the Class as a whole needs more condi removal traits as well. Anyone not playing s/x or with points in SA cant reliably remove condis. Some condi removal trait on venoms could really boost skeik venom to one of the top choices for healing as well. Also i still dont understand why venomous strength and quick venoms are 2 different traits. Some consolidation is needed right there imo.

Edit: Oh and mez has condi transfer as well so not really a necro thing. Thief could have access to it just like ranger got access to stealth :P

Terissimo.6852:

Eodwen.2613:

So lately I ’ ve been running venom share in pve dungeons and it seems pretty solid for harder content.

What what what?!

Oop let me clarify, I tried ro run that build on specific situations where I felt some more support was needed and it has proven usefull (i.e. some bosses in ta aether or fractals). 10 stacks of residual venom is great to reap through defiant stacks instantly to get an on demand cc to a boss the aoe str buf that bounced on phalanc war and the vulnerability stacking. However i found myself very harsly exposed in situations where condition cleanse was needed and had to rely too much on other people in the party to condi cleanse me.

So lately I ’ ve been running venom share in pve dungeons and it seems pretty solid for harder content. But the lack of any condi removal is a huge downside to this build imo. Wouldn’t it be better if anet tweaked one of the traits to remove a condition on application or that provides the new resistance boon that will come with hot, or even make a new venom that transfers 1 condition on hit from you to the target with a fair cd (30s) and lasts for idk.. 3 hits?

No Real men just tab target someone and he dies!!!11

Could simply be an Npc you know.

I got rapier for my human as well. For my asura though katanas are a must. It looks really ninja like with the outfit or coe armor and the katana.

Maybe 1 sec ICD on trait then? Tbh i d rather have a trait like that replacing heal on shatter grandmaster trait any day.

Im sure this has been suggested before but how about a minor trait in illusions trait line that would turn our shatters in some sort of finishers?

I think the offfensive boons do help power pu because they can initiate an i leap shatter from stealth. In that regards 3 stacks of might or fury do give out benefit as in burstability. That being said i would prefer fury as it stacks in duration than intensity and you d be able to get better benefit for the burst. On the other hand you would get similar benefit from might if it was like 5 stacks i think though it might be less if you start doing some number crunching.

i just quoted blakdoxa tbh. And i dont see any buffs other than those aimed to condition specs unless you consider bug fixes as buffs. I agree we will wait and see but i just dont like the direction anet is taking . I think mes is the only profession along with ranger that can have their mechanic countered by killing their pets.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Í’m just confused how blinding would ever prevent the attack. It is a radius based aoe that is not generated by targeting. I legitimately don’t understand what the reasoning for applying this to clones is other than an attempt to nerf it.

I totally agree

blakdoxa.7520:

Noah.9654:

zaxon.6819:

the main problem is.. you cry when they buff you.. you cry when they nerf you.. people would have been better off just taking the buff and closing thier mouths. who begs to get themself nerfed on the forum.

this is a lesson to all the torment tears. torment isnt a problem to them.. but if you cry for 20 pages about pu they are going to nerf you. zip it.

This. Seriously. This.

The worst problem is that according to polls, it wasn’t even the majority of the Mesmers complaining. It was the minority plus other professions crying about it. No matter how you look at it, the Mesmers were ‘nerfed’ because the minority threw a tantrum. Frankly, nobody has the right to be upset about this lol.

PU needed to be nerfed. I’m absolutely fine with this. The clone death issue is something we’ll need to see first hand. If you have to blind the clones themselves (which would make sense) then this isn’t nearly as bad as the QQers think. If you have to blind the Mesmer, we may need to adjust our gameplay a bit and thieves will be a bit more annoying than they already are.

The buffs will outweigh the minor nerfs. Everyone can stop the panic now.

PU is a 1v1, roaming build.
In sPvP, you will not see this build outside of hot join or SQ.
In WvW, this will be nothing more than a roaming build that kittens players foolish enough to fight one.

Since when did dueling even matter in balancing? Are you telling Anet shifted their focus to 1v1 jerking fest over coordinated team-play?

PU has barely to no value in team-play and Anet just lopped off a limb for whatever crazy reason…

I don’t understand crippling a build like this even for the scepter change cause who is going to seriously think the scepter will become “team viable” after the torment change?

This i totally agree.

denis.9487:

Anet should step up and make all passive traits evadable/blind to encourage active game play. Or maybe this is a punishment for actually crying over a buff.

I agree for the most part but not blind. You mean a thief or engi should be able to blind their way through aoe like wells/mines/bombs/clones/minnions?

I have always considered death traits to be a deterrent to mindlessly maw through clones to keep a mesmer from building up clones for shatter or just attack w/e cause they cba to find the real one. It was all about psychological demotivation more than actual punishment since clone death on non condi builds is only a minor hidrance.

Now with scepter clones ie buff and clone death nerfs i can see anet pushing players into aoeing down clones instead, even in melee range. Thats what i dont like tbh. What i would like is to make clones more resilient to compensate.

block evade is fine but blind i dont get. Dont engi bombs hit if engi is blinded? Dont mines and wells hit if necro is blinded? Plus even if we consider the illusion a pet death should take priority and blind shouldnt work since the illusion is dead. I think the traits needed some tone down as they should only act as a deterent to make our opponents think which one is the real one b4 attacking. But atleast with blind engi and thief have it too easy.

Imo PU nerf aint bad except the might part. Seriously 1 stack of a boon that stacks in intensity makes it look more like a filler. I’d much rather have fury tbh. Now on death traits nerf, i think being blocked dodged is fair since everything else pretty much is as well. What i dont get is how blind should affect them. I mean arent they supposed to be exploding? If you blind a terro bomber and he blows up, you wont get hit cause he was blinded, even if you were in range?

Separating pve from pvp wont work for PU since main problem is wvw and in spvp if you run pu you asking your team to leech.

i just dont see AA torment being that good tbh. Even if clones can also apply it due to the speed of scepter attacks i can only see 3 stacks maintained at most as long as the mesmer is only auto attacking, otherwise propably not even 1 stack. One thing i do agree is that it will cause a lot of uneeded ruckus to the player community atleast until its implemented. A lot of players that dont play mesmer main can make it out something that it isnt and it can look pretty apealling on paper. I wouldnt worry cause if it truly is OP it ll be nerfed a month after implementation at most. Remember the shattered strength buff?

If I got it right (since I didnt check the vid myself),what we are in fact talking about is 3stacks of torment at max every 3 secs that last for 2 seconds ( 3 in wvw prolly) and for that the mesmer would have to be autoattacking so as to maintain them. Now suppose we talking about pu builds they hardly use aa to begin with and anyone who tries to use it with pu will surely underperform. Now for non pu builds I think it ll only work to keep some condi pressure netween bleed bursts or miaim shatters. All in all the only thing it can do for pu is help presure people that wait to burst down a pu by not attacking. As for condi meta ie buff is imo of greater impact. Of course mesmer not having good aggressive condi builds wont stop the meta as it hasnt for so long.

Hmm i think people that have no skins dont really care and people that do have some of them really dont want them to be available so i guess there arent any people that would want this

The titles are enough proof you played gw1 imo. Some skins are nice and should be considered to be sold for gems maybe rework them a bit so they are not the same as the hom ones, then people wont have to feel “betrayed”.

Oh you mean like for people that didnt grind gw1 to the ground back then. So after 2 years of playing gw2 they should go grind a completely different game so they can get a reward in this one. Great logic people. On top of that people had exclusive skins for like 2 years. I bet all of the people that answred no in this thread is people who already have all the skins. I also have 80% of the skins unlocked and i think its a terribly selfish attitude to keep. Isnt having fun in a great game for so many years enough for you people, you need extra rewards in a new game that nobody else can get ever. Yeah playing a game that belongs to the previous generation and its mostly dead atm is a such a great way to get rewards in the game you wanna play.

I think people that have the skins are only a minority, rebeling wont do much, just like when they decided to unlock legendary skins, and to be honest i think people that had the same legendary 2ice have a lot more valid reason to complain.

Its been almost 2 years since gw2 released isnt it time to make those skins available to the people that did not play gw1? I myself have a linked account but havent got all of them unlocked. I would love a chance to get some of those skins via the gemstore.

Sanderinoa.8065:

I would still not be able to buy a weapon with it, but I’m sure it would make me appreciate the account wallet more.

What im thinking is making it too easy to get and people wll lose interest in fractals quickly. However if you do fractals for 3 months without one skin drop then you can go buy it for crystallised relics and not feel cheated. Also these pristine fractal relics are quite useless as it is and the option to turn it to ascended infused is nice too adding another way to get ascended other than gold or rng. Lastly you need ascended armor to do high lvl fractals due to ar requirements and the option of having an infused ascended weapon will ease on the wallet cause you ll need less ascended armor made and they can be abtained solely by doing daily fractals.

The problem: Very low drop rates on fractal weapon skins and due to drops bneing completely random you have 1/x chance of getting the one you want.

So here is my suggestion

Suggestion: Use pristine fractal relics to purchase the skins in adition to rng drops that are in effect atm. I think 90 for 1h weapon and 150 for 2h weapons is a good amount to keep people doing fracals while not making it a chore. Basecally if you start from 0 relics and get one per day you can get a skin for 1h in 3 months and 5 for 2 h.

On top of that add an option to turn it to ascended infused version of it similarly to beta fractal capacitator with the use of fractal relics. i think 2000 relics for ascended and another 3000 for infused is a good amount adding up to 5000 relics to go from exotic to infused version of the weapon.

Ah i see thanks for the info.

Now that mix and match different skins has become easier the clipping problems has become a lot more obvious.

Are those problems being worked at? I.E. Greatsword and sword with light armor clipping effects, long hair clipping effects with shoulders/chest, shoulders clipping with chest armor, boots clipping with pants.

Also on another note can you please fix the hats making humans bald thing? Id really like to use some hats without going bald.

Curenntly a lot of people including myself feel that boss fights and legendery mobs in general dont promote any skill other than dodge. It s always coming down to dps race with a twist. Time limits and imposing the use of external gadgets also push the fight too much in the wrong direction and away from the class skill. From zhaitan to tequatl to scarlets hologram the games focuses more and more on action elements and less on class abilities.

What i would like to see is evolving boss fights from coordination focused to skill focused. Almost every boss is the same thing with small twists
1 coordinated use of a gadget exclusive to the fight
2 coordinated support
3 coordinated dps race at specific phases.

What about diversity in pve? If you dont go boon support or dps you pretty much underperform in group content. For example defiance is a trait that in my opinion denies players of skillfull play. As stated in another thread, make it a dispellable boon (stability) or change it to reduce CC time instead of completely negating. If you worry about stunlocks make stun last for 0.01 s or add diminishing returns to it. The difference is the mob is still interuptable.

Another problem is the innate non dispellable buffs. I think everything should be dispelled or stolen to some degree using class skills not external gadgets.

Yet another thing is blind. 10% effective blind is useless. Should be atleast 50% imo or have diminishing returns equivalent to major encounters. Dodging big hits doesnt promote skill play that much on its own.

Lastly its the well known issue of condition caps. I think conditions cap should raise in accordance with how many people participate. It makes no sense that power dmg should escalate with the number of people but condition damage should be capped the same in a 80 man boss and in a 5 man dungeon.

oh i thought you meant 2 and 3 in first skills chain sequence. What i meant was moving clone generation effect up the first skills chain so you won thave to complete the chain to get it.

Hmm i thought 3 was the slowest.

What if they moved the clone spawning effect on the second attack in the chain. Wouldnt that be an improvement especially for those who skillfully break the chain and repeat?

They also stated on several occasions that the new legenderies wont be weapons or armor but trinkets and armor would be coming way later. Nothing has been said about new legendery weapons a far as i have looked.
Edit:
What they did say however is they intend to expand weapon options (specifically metioning elementalist with pistols), so maybe youll be able to get more legenderies for your class that way.

Qaelyn.7612:

Auesis.7301:

Any Thief PvE build that isn’t based around DPS is a joke and should be ignored.

LOL. Gotta love blanket declarations from people who think that whatever idea they come up with is the only possible good one.

Nobody would ever come up with new build ideas if they followed that sort of attitude.

Acctually there is some truth in that statement. I find that almost any non dps build is fairly subpar in pve (for almost every class), because pve is mindless dodge/dps race, added a twist of some sort, which is always not class based but enviroment based. That is even more straightforward than even classic tank and spank fights in mmos since there is no real tank. I guess thats the result of removing holy trinity from the game in order to make all classes equally desirable in pve (as stated by anet), though that didnt work out in the end.

Ohoni.6057:

Your breakdown is highly subjective and does not take account for all different parts of the game or builds. If you are looking for non-biased commentary on the Thief proposed changes. Dont read this one

There’s no such thing as a non-biased commentary. Any response will be biased, even if the bias is towards “not caring.” If these changes messed up a build you enjoyed without offering anything of value, it’s perfectly reasonable to complain about it.

I agree you cant make a proper commentary with having some descent exp as a thief anyway. But to those who play with and against thieves frequently one of two things should happen: You either like or dislike the class and therefore your comments contain some amount of bias.

Now as for the patch preview my opinion is that apart from the justified nerbat or not they take away more than they give back in return. Maybe the nerf is the first stage to redesigning which they decided to to implement first then try to gather new feedback and deside if they need to nerf more or add the new stuff, idk. However short term its unfair for players.

Looks like a viariant of 0/30/30/10 to me. I still grab 5 more points in crit rather than acrobatics.

I would also swap in 2 soldier pieces. For itemization and stat optimisation I would reccomend you to look at this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Building-a-better-D-D-thief/page/3#post3077298

D/p can atleast keep you alive vs wars and necros but its only effective for solo queing in tpvp and getting some kills. In tournies i hear venom share is all the rage now so might as well try a bunker cond build with venom share.

Edit: I enjoy a caltrops d/d cond build in tpvp atm which is great for group fights on top of objectives but not great in 1v1 situations.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY6YlUmKPHfy7E+JFC3DnCpaK/DOoWBaq/AXB-TwAAzCpI8RBjDGjPSfszMCYtwOg5HA

Necros and warriors tend to stay on points while fighting btw.

Wvw d/p is objectively the best choice against anything really as it performs equally well in almost all situations, though you ll be hated for using it.

Why so much hate? P/d is easy to play easier than d/p i guess and the range makes it even safer but its no more cheese than d/p. Stacking stealth is the primary qq after all cause its kitten annoying.

I dont see why you pick on p/d when necros do the same thing+ Sure is boring as hell but its the closest thing to a bunker build. I used to play d/d p/d bunker caltrops a while ago to spice it up a bit. Btw richochet is ok trait in p/d i also pick instinctual response or long reach over uncatchable and hidden thief to precast caltrops → steal into crowds.

What you say is mostly true but not entirely and we can talk for hours and still we wont even scratch the surface on the topic and it still wont prove a low skill cap.

Im for playing other classes and i often found out how difficult they are after i played em for quite a while. A class always seems easier when a skiled player is behind it i guess. I think you should try playing thief for a while and meet some players with relevant skill level maybe you ll reconsider. Stating thief is low skill cap class doesnt bother me personally since im playing thief in pve mostly and in pve you dont need a brain anyway. But there are some exceptional thief players out there and its quite unfair to summarise everything on a low skill cap statement.

I still dont get how this proves a low skill cap for theif. Since its the only thing i disagree with you on.

EDit:

On the whole escape thing (thief got it easy part) if we are talking ooc reseting fight then warrior engi and ele even mes have equal escape capabilities or more. Id go so far to say thief would be unable to escape them if not for stealth even.

If you are talking about reseting fight without healing and ooc by stealth stacking then it should be considered the same fight. Mind games are part of the class design as is with mesmer. Mind games imo atleast focus more on player skill than class capabilities imo so in a way it promotes a high skill cap for the class that employs it. Hence the simplistic approach theif has.

Dragonax.6487:

Ghostwolf.9863:

Dragonax.6487:

Let say if a noob thief vs a noob of other classes. Noob thief has 99% chance of winning just for the stealth button.

If a noob thief vs an experienced other classes who know how to deal with them, noob thief has 99% chance of losing because once their stealth is countered, they are like a naked woman in a life time prison for males.

But if a skilled thief vs a skilled other classes, skilled thief has much higher chance to win… again because now they know how to use stealth better + know how to counter stealth counters, and there was no hard counter to stealth so suck it.

A couple of questions to you kind sir.

What’s the hardcounter to healing signet and adrenal health?
What’s the hardcounter to CC when you don’t have access to many dodges nor stability?
What’s the hardcounter to minions, clones and spirits sucking up your dmg ?
What’s the hardcounter to having a lot of, in many cases unavoidable conditions on you when your condition removal and health pool is lowest in the game?

1. Condition build with poison , or 16k back stab, anyway Tanky regen warrior deals no damage so unless you suck kitten u should come out winning after a long fight no matter what
2.Blind is the best counter for soft CC, hard CC doesn’t last long
3. Stealth, and u have plenty of time to find the true target
4. There is no unavoidable condition, if it’s target surrounded conditions, again stealth and wait for it to cool off. Low health ? Stealth and reset the fight at will.

I beg to differ…
1) condition build with poison unless you d/d deathblossom spammer you cant keep poison up through condition removals and Db spam is easily seen through. Backstab for 16k ? and the war sneazes on you and you go downed state.
2) hard cc doesnt last long but neither does thief.
3) I disagree terrain usage blocking los and high mobility from mesmer make it harder than it sounds, all the while phantasm attacks follow up on you through stealth and when you come out of it.
4) Thats mostly true since oppoent is suffering from cds more than you but not entirely accurate as he has seen your rotation.

Ghostwolf is right focusing too much on stealth counter and ignoring the fact that thieves have little to no counters to cc, massive spikes, phantasms and high sustain.