Also so many traits don’t do anything with scourge. Theres are like so little choices to go with since all the enter shroud traits dont do anything with scourge as far as I tested.
For one thing I would love for improvisation go become master tier and panic strike to be merged with executioner. Atleast in pvp deadly arts is like bread and butter for thief no matter the build.
Its true condi dmg should not be favored. I could see a lot of necros maxing condi duration though. Maybe burning duration runes and condi duration food.
I think an offhand is more likely in the sense that 2h would mean steal gets transformed into something else, and since steal mechanic is only 2 ( only 1 in reality) abilities It will be quite lacking compared to other transformed spec. Also off hand can provide 3 skills (dual skill depending on main hand). So assuming an offhand makes more sense at this point, a focus can provide more utility/defense than an offhand sword ( judging from other focus skills tha other classes got already). So yeah i think a focus could be a strong candidate.
Hmm I will test this more but it seems wierd that the other venoms I was using reset while basilisk did not. I will keep an eye out for it though. Anyway yeah improvisation is great but the rng effect doesn’t give a lot of people ( including myself) a good feeling. Winning a fight cause you got “lucky” even if the odds are in your favor. Combined with the fact that some of the stolen items themselves have a debatable use value, I often steal just to steal and the improvisation doesn’t give me enough to use steal more tactically atm.
It’s not really high risk though. You aren’t suddenly at risk if you don’t proc deceptions, tricks, or venoms on Improvisation.
I run executioner myself, but I wouldn’t say executioner completely outclasses Improvisation (If anything I’d say Improvisation is slightly better than executioner on a SA build, and that executioner is better than Improvisation for a CS build). Instead, I’d say Improvisation is for a different and more sustain-based playstyle that requires you to play around the chance of proc’ing Improvisation and the 2x stolen items. So fights might last longer, but you’re much more likely to win/tie in the end. Also the ability to swing a fight in your favor becomes a lot more dependent on how well you can use stolen skills.
In my opinion GW2 is casual enough that fights being decided on RNG isn’t that big of a deal. If Anet found a way to make Improvisation less random that’d be nice. But I don’t think they should do it in a way that makes Improvisation stronger, it’s already strong enough as is.
Also you say most people only run 2 different skill categories in the first post. Most people run at least 3. Healing and Elite skills can be refreshed by Improvisation as well, and when you count those in very few people will use only 2 different skill categories (A huge part of improvisation is the ability to refresh your heal skill).
Yeah I was thinking the signet SR shadowstep build when I said that not taking withdraw into account. Also it should be noted last night I ran improvisation with venoms, and while it recharged my venoms it didn’t recharge the basilisk one. Is this intended or bug? Anyways, yeah I agree with the less random not stronger approach.
I agree with you Nivik. However a lot of people will think than 24s cd on steal can make this too much OP still. I am still debating if adding an Icd longer than steal would not be too much of a nerf to your suggestion or not, but overall I really like all the ideas proposed so far.
That sound cool that way you cant spam them twice in a row but it still gets you your cds back in chain fights. I think Anet was hoping this would turn out to be a good combo with sword trait recharging steal or smth .
Yeah getting to recharge only equipped categories is gonna be too OP. Well bout the cheese though is it more cheese than 6s stealth or cele ele? A theif gotta do what he must to survive and spvp has been hell for theives post patch.
Edit: here is another idea. They could put the recharge effect on a 40- 45 seconds cd and make it work only on equipped utility skill categories. That way it wont be spammed every 20 s and will attain increased value as a gm. Or yeah get it to recharge an equipped skill isntead of a whole category.
So i been thinking that improvisation can really add some surivalability to the class if it happens to recharge a utility skill. However the effect is too random still and since most people only run 2 different skill categories in their utility. How bout we left the traps out so it only recharged venoms/signet/tricks/deception skills. Thoughts?
I think thief will probably get an off hand weapon instead of a 2h weapon. Reason is that all classes who got off hand weapons got their mechanic expanded instead of replaced. I think there’s not much sense in transforming steal into something else really since its only 2 skills. However they could transform initiative into something else. But since spec weapons are no longer unique I think gs is back on the table as well.
On no please do tell me how Mesmers have more surviving tools then eles who have more heals then a game with actual monks and immune to conditions when their health is above 90% or Theifs who can evade nonstop and have better access to stealth and stuns?
I like how you put thieves and eles on the same level there. Right now in spvp thief has to run away the moment another player looks at him. But yeah I get the ele part.
Improvisation is simply not a gm trait though. Either they should merge it with some other weaker gm trait oor move it back to master level. It can’t compete with executioner or even sleight of hand
(Assuming one would move it to trickery.)
I am also extremely annoyed by steal’s cd increase, the fact that they make you choose between condi and boon removal SE nerf, and the fact they premptively nerfed stolen items because they thought we would use it. All that on top of nerfing acro line to the ground which is a juge hit to my survivability in pve. They van take F2 back as long as I can have steal on 17s cd again.
I just loled when I saw the conquest build on metabattle for d/p. “Thief is a natural predator extremely good in taking down squishy classes like mez…”. NOT. That guide is soooo 2014.
Hmm I had the opposite experience to be honest. Since I am always at the periphery and at the edges shadow stepping in and out from the battle I use withdraw to get off ledges and stuff which ends up putting the trap in weird places where they are very unlikely to trigger.
Yeah I tried theif a bit in hot join and I must say it doesn’t matter if i run 13k hp build with wurm runes or 17k hp build with full SA and even acro (marauder amu). Once you get hit you die 8/10. The sustain is non existent. Best way to survive is disengage before they target you. Also that signet of stone… I would like it so very much if anyone at anet can enlighten me how passive traits and dmg immunity skills (talking bout ranger necro engi war) promote active play. After all isn’t that the excuse for the acro line nerf?
About trapper’s respite i think it would be more convenient if you set the trap at the start of the casting and not the end, thus exerting more control on the location you place the trap when fighting. Also I would like a reduction in base cd to get 15 cd when traited with traps so as to match the cd on withdraw .
Hmm the idea is interesting but after trying using it I found out that the trap ends up being placed in weird places especially when used with withdraw.
I would propose the following changes.
1 Make it place trap at the beginning of cast not the end.
2 Reduce the cd to 20s or 25 s to match the reduction of hide in shadows when traited.
Don’t you just love when people use wvw 1v1 scenarios to support their claims? Even though wvw is for casual pvp and is balanced around large scale fights. I have to agree with spirit though on the dmg part. I thought anets vision was a mobile class that is quick on their feet and yet they nerf evades and stealth defensive traits while buffing burst to the point they turn thief to a one trick pony or a kamikazi that goes in 1 shots someone then dies with no hope of escaping.
where is that necro who was qqin about thief patch notes being OP. I bet he’s too busy enjoying his new passive trait, that lets you survive burst even while semi afk, to post in the forums. Anyhow mezmer is the new thief imo…
First is my bag of laundry main – I tried to change his looks but I would have to change everything and then he would look like my other thief (last 2 pictures), who’s the only one that can pull off ascended gear, but now looks like in the last picture.
No idea what you’re looking for – gear or physics.
I rememver when sic em wad announced and I did say that was only the beginning. People said in response ranger won’t pick it and that its useless and that it’s not that bad blah blah stealrh trap blah blah etc. Well there you have it. The only upside is engis will probably pick speedy kits since the perma swiftness is back. But dragonhunter is coming…
They just following basic marketing schemes imo like new customers are always cheaper to get and all. If I am correct then they have taken willingness to pay into account and are just targeting new people and those who are ok with paying this much. For the late adopters there should be a decrease in price maybe a month after launch so they can attract those who are only willing to pay 35 eur for it, but I can’t be sure about Anets marketing plan.
Torment on steal /interrupt is also another reason to pick sleight of hand. So no hard choices there. I have seen a lot of posts talking bout condi thief not being viable but I was thinking a spider venom venomous aura build might be effective. But yeah it feels we gone back to 3 years ago where d/d 1 shoted you on pvp and then ran and waited for cds.
Also anyone noticed spike trap buff? Seems they trying to enforce trap usage.
They need to separate spvp wvw and pve builds, Just because you can abuse a lot of things like endurance condi and boon duration in wvw doesn’t mean spvp is at fault as well. Nerf of thieves in wvw is well deserved but they way they do it is soo lazy nerfing the core of the profession to the ground.
On another note confusion is a dot now as well. But interrupt + torment trait might be more worth it still.
Edit: Anyone else remember Anet saying they want thief to be a mobile class? Is that why they nerf steal cd and evades for more burst dmg? Isn’t that the exact opposite?
So many nerfs indeed. Feline got nerfed withdraw got nerfed steal cd got nerfed. That trap set on heal trait was removed as well from the trait. Anet is forcing you to choose between klepto lead attacks and preparedness on one trait and on the next tier you got 2 totally useless traits nobody picks and thrill of the crime. I don’t know but the only build that comes to mind that doesn’t have any hard choices to make is p/d condi.
I think the poison nerf on thief is because anet is afraid of the qq stream from venomous aura spider venom abuse.
Actually according to dulfy some of the stats will count towards attributes specific to the class that were on the trait lines before the change. I would assume that the same total Cd can be achieved for a total of 17.5s. However will you pick that over ini on steal or extra ini traits?
Can you count? Traited steal is still the same Cd with both steal reduction traits on. Steal reduction from going up the tricks trait line is removed with stats being detached from traitlines. If you going to troll do it right. 1/10
Critical strikes tree really feels subpar. Is it just me or DA and Tricks got some really hard choices to make embedded on them while other trait lines are meh… I would go DA SA tricks most likely for pvp.
While I would be for toning down steal and virtues meditation traits to balance effort vs reward, I am against steal costing initiative. Initiative is for skill with no cd. Furthermore it will link 2 mechanics together making the class inflexible. Adding to that 4 initiative is a thieve’s 1/3 base initiative. Your proposal is practically forcing thieves to spec on steal trait line in all modes just so they can use their main mechanic at will. I am generally against imposing such restrictions on the base mechanic of any class, just like I feel mesmer needing illusions to use shatter is too restrictive and that illusionary persona becoming baseline is a step in the right direction. The issue at hand is the traits surrounding steal. I think on that basis the discussion should be shifted on the position of steal traits relative to their trait lines and their functionality. Mind you mug has already been toned down so the real issue here is sleight of hand. I am sure a lot of thief mains can agree that trait is borderline OP even for a GM trait.
Well the thing bout wvw is, as i have said before, that it was never designed to be balanced for 1v1 or small scale fights. Even if certain classes can escape very easily even from a huge zerk its not like they can kill you in the zerk then run away unhatched. Now if you insist on chasing down other players in 1 v 1 scenarios its very much your right to be, but the fact is WvW was designed for people to be able to win with minimal combat, so as to avoid zerk clashes 24/7, and so you can’t expect anet to balance 1v1 for you in wvw or even small scale fights, nor do you have the right to complain about something like that at all. Now look at spvp that is very much balanced for small scale combat. Although not perfect I have never seen much complains about thieves there, not since Sept 2013. So maybe just maybe its not the class fault but your efforts to play a specific game mode in a way that was not designed for and is not actively supported by Anet. Just saying.
That was my first though tbh when i saw guard. " Wow if they did that to guard I am terrified when thinking about what necro is getting." Idk if this was all the result of guardians demands backfiring on them, a minority of the playerbase influencing devs, or just the devs obsession in being creative.
.
