Guild Wars 2

Ruufio.1496:

You Guardians are in dire need of a lot more nerfs than that so stop whining. I know you all like to play your overpowered profession and faceroll SPvP but that’s too bad. You need to be nerfed. The only class I’ve seen that can take out a good Guardian 1v1 is a boon removal Necromancer.

Stop complaining. Guardian is OP.

Amen.

That’s exactly what happens to me (and i really hate necromancers!).

Just don’t PuG anymore.

Only do that with guildies.
And, if your guild is too small, join another guild.

Or stop complaining if you’re kicked, because you accepted the terms when you asked “LFG Dungeon”.

I never pugged a single dungeon till game start. If there aren’t enough people in guild, i usually go Farm, or do sPvP or WvW.

My bad experiences with PUGs in WoW start happening (to you, in this case) even in this game, so i don’t regret that choice.

Nerfing Line of Warding was silly. That’s one thing i don’t understand.

Nerfing Save Yourselves is justifiable under the assumption that it was used the wrong way: as a “God Mode” in sPvP where there aren’t usually any conditions to draw on you.

If you have an Invulnerable/“I win” ability, let’s be assured it will be nerfed when opposite players notice that. It happens in every MMO. Gw2 is no exception.

@Revanssi:
Man, you really opened my eyes.
Right now, i had a lot of inconsistency in my result, hence the big gap in my perceived % of lifesteal. Sometimes i got alot health back, sometimes not, and i didn’t understand why there was so many difference between lifesteals. I had ranges of 20%-70%!! I narrowed and averaged all results, but still i couldn’t find a good result.

Now i think i have found the answer.
ALL LIFESTEALS CHANCES ARE SEPARATE, AND ALL HEALS FOR DIFFERENT BASE AMOUNTS!

It was so simple, i couldn’t think of it!

So:
- Superior Sigil of Blood has 30% chance lifesteal. It seems to heal for roughly 435 + ??%Healing Power ( i bet is 12.5% like all guardian heals);
- Rune of Vampirism has 5% chance lifesteal. 2/rune effect seems very low (i have to calculate that), while the 4/rune effect after healing seems to steal for 975 and doesnt’ scale;
- Blackberry Pie has 40% chance lifesteal. It steals 325 health and doesn’t scale.

Now all i have to do is run some test to find if this theory is spot right. But i guess so.
Then i will finally try and run theorycrafting to get the best from this build.

Xian.5204:

I have been sPVP’ing non stop since last patch. With the nerfs in that patch and now the new nerfs, what is the point of even playing this class anymore? I am dying 3x faster than any other class in sPVP right now, and I am not really bringing anything to the table any longer. I am getting passed over for tourneys, where before I was picked almost instantly. Is it time to re-roll and learn something else?

I am honestly about to drop this game completely and walk away. The lack of communication and direction from the developers is worse than WoW’s.

Anyone else rerolling? What class are you switching too?

Guardian.

I don’t like Defender’s flame, mainly because of its semi-random targeting that makes it so messy to use.

Glacial Hammer is nice, but only in PvP, because for me is pointless to chill mobs because:

- they’re too weak anyway;
- if they’re strong and you would like to slow them, they’re immune (most bosses).

My crithammer build is 0/0/30/30/10.
I usually go with Purity/Retributive Armor/Altruistic Healing for Valor. I can exchange Purity with Strength in Numbers in Dungeons (it works on you too!).

Honor is more flexible, i like Empowering Might, the other two are situational and i often change them even during a dungeon or WvW escapade. I usually get Two-Handed Mastery though.

For Virtue, i always use Master of Consecrations. If i feel the mood, i can get Consecrated Ground instead. Both of this skills rock with Wall of Reflection.

wolfie.7296:

Let’s not forget thieves oponly admit op powers and show it off in videos, but are not punished like Guardians are. This includes the bizarre Line of Warding nerf, more op than thieves, elems and mesmers.

This is the more sensate line you wrote in this thread.

Now i can whine for a Line of Warding, because it’s totally undeserved. What good is nerfing a skill that is useful to keep things at range, while we’re horrible at range?

I bet that many WvW groups found the Wall of Reflection/Line of Warding combination too overwhelming at first contact (but then again, if you REALLY know how to play, you can dodge over).

But rest assured, no thief can ever kill us Guardians 1vs1 unless we’re talking of a protracted (3 minutes+) duel. And that is not happening anytime in sPvP.

Edit: Mesmer can kill us easily, and so necromancers, they’re a terrible mismatch for us.

@Brutaly and Revanssi:
I wish i had an exact answer to you two, but i haven’t one.
The only way of seeing how much the lifesteal heals you is by watching the screen for the green numbers that appears near you when you crit.

What i have done is using my Virtue of Resolve on CD (to disable Regeneration), removing Altruistic Healing, and trying and NOT doing the third chain hit on hammer (that would activate symbol of protection and heal me).

With one lucky streak of crits against normal mobs, i have guessed that the amount is a fixed % of the critical hit. It should be about 30-40% (cannot be precise because numbers disappear too fast). I should have FRAPsed that attempt.

Runes don’t add to the amount healed, but to the chance of lifestealing (as sigil and food do). The amount stolen doesn’t seem to be affected by Healing Power. I don’t think the effect of the runes to be much useful, to be honest (when you have 40% from food+30% from sigil, another 5% seems irrelevant), but i am putting that in armor to increase chances and do better calculations.

Will keep you updated on my next attempt (i swear i will FRAP it so i can see how much it heals).

wolfie.7296:

The only problem there is that I have watched other Guardians play.

I totally agree with that!
(you watched the bad ones)

wolfie.7296:

So far the answer appears to be yes. Why these nerfs are coming in response to the classes who want the Guardian pushed fully into support.

Yes, this is the answer you’re looking for.

There is a plot we Guardian players are putting on to push our class fully into support.

Now you can reroll another class in peace.

Have fun playing this game, we will SUPPORT you ever!

This is very useful, and i will put it to good use in my Crit/Lifestealing build.

Thanks for all the calculation, i think you’re right.

wolfie.7296:

^ Fabsm.5897 thinks Guardians shouldn’t defeat other classes in 1v1.

We are defenders. We make them pay if they want to get our points.
This is WINNING, let killing other classes to other sissy professions that cannot resist 10 seconds without help.

I don’t mind being nerfed on a self-only ability (and in sPVP only), if i get the RF while moving.

You really don’t play Guardian, or play it like a Warrior, if you don’t understand how useful was this change self and group-wise.

The problem is at lvl 35 you cannot actually use the synergy that make a good balanced build.

Altruistic Healing is a Grandmaster Valor trait and needs lvl 40 to be effective, and even then i don’t recommend it till you are at least lvl 45 and can go 0/0/30/0/5, to benefit from the additional boons of virtue 5.

If you need an 80 lvl spec, a good starting point is reading the other threads, while there are good threads on support/tank builds, i strongly recommend the Crithammer build, because it is remarkably easier to pull off than a mace/shield build that is ultra-tanky but boring as hell to master.

Can you elaborate on your favorite weapons so far, so we can discuss them properly?

wolfie.7296:

Urban.4875

People forget that the Guardian was intended as a support class and not the top tier DPS class. RF is powerful.

Again, I read this from some1 else this time.

Yes, Guardians are a support class.

Now, let me go back doing some DPS and winning with my squad (that i happily support) in sPVP, Pve, WvW, please, while you reroll (insert another class of your choice).

Have fun playing it!

@Holyfrog:
Well you can run in circles without giving up the point

@whiners:
Do you play Guardian at all, or you are a (insert another class here) griefing in the wrong forum?
This is a much needed BUFF (or Fix as you call it) and something we Guardians expected from day 1.

Guardians are, by definition, Defenders.

So you’re whining about your inability to kill 1vs1, well, reroll (insert another class here) pls.

In SPvP we are the best at taking, capping and retaining points. I have NEVER given a point to any single player except only ONE time to a very skilled necromancer.

If they want my point, they have to come in pairs, and even then, try and kill me. We have the defending spirit and skills, and we shine in defense, even against overwhelming odds.

In this light, you can see why the patch was effectively a buff for us. Save Yourselves improved only our general DPS and giving an “instant heal” effect in turtle/AH builds.
But Renewed Focus while moving is huge. We can refresh our virtues without being a sitting duck for that aoe skills and warriors Hundred Blades. We can endure a lot more, and i expect to be able to beat my personal best of defending a point for 1 minute against 3 players.

So you say this is not PvP… you’re right, this is winning battles, not killing players. Try and put your skill at a test in next hotjoin. Try and resist at the 3-players train more than 30 seconds, while your team caps the other points and win.

How many points do you get for killing one player? I bet that even with all the nerfs and buffs, it is zero nevertheless.

We should focus on our obvious strengths as a community, instead of whining to be able to do other professions’ work.

Brutaly.6257:

@Fabsm
whats the food called, cant find it.

Been fooling around myself with a 1h build (1h sword+scepter), 0/30/30/5/5 with leech on swap and leech on crit and i would really like to know what food to use with that.

Got a vampire going that seems very interesting.

This one
Blackberry Pie

Update on lifestealing Build:

I am using Knight exotic + green Berserker Jewels + rare Berserker Hammer + 2*Rune of Vampirism + Sigil of Blood (the other 4 runes i am experimenting with) to try and get off a lifestealing build. Using only 40% lifestealing food (will try and look for other consumables, like whetstone or similar).

Right now, the results are astonishing but erratic. In PvE, when i crit, i get 30% of my hit back. I was stunned the first time, but then i tried with every mob i could find, even veterans, to have a consistent result.

Any Hit that crits (even the symbols!) you steal back 30%. The tempo of the hammer is unbelievably attuned to the internal CD (2s), so in autoattack you can almost guarantee you will get your health back.

You have to be lucky on WHAT crits, however. You will be delighted when a big Mighty Blow crits (and gives you back 1k health+AH), but you will be annoyed when the crit is from your measly autoattack.

I can stand toe to toe with most melee monsters in dungeon, simply hitting them, dodging in the 2s window and healing ca 800, and coming back with Mighty Blow + Area Retaliation + AH + Lifesteal. It usually gives enough health to stay in melee.

The only regret is it happens too randomly to count on it. I noticed the game briefly puts a small icon (lifesteal) in your buff bar when the next hit will leech. However, in the middle of the fight, it is difficult to wait for that icon to do Mighty Blow.

Still experimenting with the other runes to see if there are interesting synergies.

knives.6345:

@Fabsm

I use Beryl for Accessories and Rings, my Amulet is still a mess, but I’m planning to take the one that has Prec/Pow/Crit Damage.

I use Emerald Orb x6 on armor slots.

Also, yes, I use the trait that adds 5% prec from toughness.

I currently have 38% crit chance but I have Sigil of Accuracy. I am planning to use 0/5/30/30/5 build and remove the Sigil of Accuracy but I believe it’ll downsize my crit chance by 25-30, which is very bad.

You can raise that again using 6xRune of the Eagle, or 6xRune of Lyssa if you want funny synergy. It will lower your toughness though. You have to make a choice between stats.

It is more of a personal decision about your survival than an effective improvement, you have to try with lower toughness to see if you can manage the hit (try removing a piece of armor with toughness and see if you die too much ).

@knives:

What runes and jewels do you have?
They make a huge difference. And, do you use the honor trait that puts toughness to precision?

You seem to have a build similar to mine, but i have 38% crit WITHOUT Sigil of Accuracy…

@Lucubration: no reply button for me, sigh!

I have all exotic knight armor and a Berserker Hammer. I am looking for berserker jewels because i don’t feel that adding Healing Power would matter.

At the moment, we have no clue on the amount healed, wiki doesn’t help, and all we have is trying on the dummies.

I’d rather prefer critting more often, adding precision (and adding to the other synergies of this build), than critting less often but for biggest amounts.

But it is more of a personal choice than a rule set in stone. I am now confortable with my defences with knight armor, and sitting at 38% crit. I want to reach 40%, then slowly replace Rubies with other runes with greater impact (divinity comes to mind).

If all goes in the right way, i guess that the amount of lifestealing generated could be paragonable to the Regeneration effect of Hold the Line, only 24/7 nonstop.

That could be awesome especially in PvE.

If you give the Guardians more HP, ALL other classes (and with ALL i mean even the Almighty Warriors) will scream Nerf so high they will hear it on the moon.

Seriously… in WvW 1vs1 no class has ever downed me. And i am a mediocre/average player in PVP. Only 15k healthpool, but No Way they’re passing my Defence/Protection/Aegis/Blind wall of Boons.

You have to play well to be a successful Guardian. It is not a use-all-my-cd-and-you-are-dead class. You have to know how to defend, how to use your abilities and trait to stack boons and then HIT HARD.

In Guardians’ case, the best Offence is a good Defense! (Retaliation FTW).

Nice points Ultramatum.

And… support is not HEALER. Hammer this in your WoW-esque heads.

A little example, a traited Virtue of Resolve will tick on all your party members non stop if you don’t use it. That’s 84 (more or less) hp per second. That’s 2.1k on 25s.

I bet you could like a healing spell that heals 2.1k to all your group every 25s… we have it, and you don’t even have to use it. And we have Regeneration to all party, Protection non stop with hammer, Aegis, and all kind of boons. Oh, and we can DPS in the meanwhile.

No, there isn’t a Prayer of Healing here. We are support, not healers. And I don’t miss it (8 years Holy/Disc priest in WoW).

Leeain.2431:

In my opinion they have to re-design all the supportive and healing skills.
Reading in the forum, all the “wanna be healer” complain this “support” system and there are lot of threads where people ask why some skills simply suks (orb of light, merciful intervention, healin breeze, line of warding, empower… oh whait… al the supportive skills suks!)…

Off Topic:
Empower rocks. Try it with your warrior buddy at the side.

On Topic:
Sanctuary -sadly- works as intended, and it is a useless skill as it is now
It will be Much More useful if it had an area like that of the shield #5.

Testing now Full knight with 2*Rune of Vampirism+4 Ruby +Sigil of Blood.
Still working on my Berserker Jewels.

This works wonder, coupled with lifesteal food. I literally bring myself to life in PvE, where every crit that procs (with my 38% crit it procs on CD) heals me about 1k. Obviously i dodge often to reset the CD.

I have to crunch numbers to separate the healing from AH, from that of Lifesteal. Will run tests, i am really kitten that Combat log DOESN’T reports healing from lifesteal. I know it is there, but all i can do is equipping a blank hammer and subtract..

This game could use a good Combat Log. Even if it couldn’t be saved (that will deter the class vs class debates), at least for the player could be useful in theorycrafting.

I think this setup is not viable in WvW, because you’re not hitting so often. In WvW often you punch a GOOD hit, and then go utility wise on stunning and blocking to reset MB cooldown. You don’t hit often enough to benefit from the lifesteal.

I will put my final test result when i have my Berserker Jewels, will test with a blank hammer and one with the sigil, with and without food buff.

Keep giving hints in how to upgrade this build, i think this is our best chance in DPS in PvE and in WvW!

On Crafting: i say, go for it.

Yes, it is not worth it -moneywise-, but it is fun and gives a sense of accomplishment you cannot have simply playing the TP and using the Mystic Forge.

It is so easy to max craft, that i really cannot understand why people in my guild wonders why “i have crafted my armor myself” instead of “selling all materials and buying it from the TP”. It is not all about money, my friends. It is the act of creation

And… I could be the one SELLING you your armor.

My 2 cents about Dungeons.

What i think is great in GW2 is that you are not forced to do anything to reach your final goal. You want the exotic set? You can run dungeons, you can craft it, you can buy it from Karma. You’re not forced, like in WoW to ONLY run heroics and raids to have your final gear. (yes, good recipes were present in WoW, but they dropped in raids, so my points stands).

So, the other point in doing dungeons is… well… enjoy them?
Ok, so to enjoy them i have to … uh… skip mobs? Uhm… well, this will PERHAPS cut my time short by 5 minutes, but… will i enjoy it?

That’s why i hate PUGs. I only do dungeon with my guildies, with Teamspeak, because i really ENJOY doing them. Facing on every trash mob, laughing at our ineptitude when trash bring us down, and cheering when a good strategy beats the trashes or the boss.

All the comments here seem pointing to reduce the difficulty/trash/length of dungeons because they want PHAT LOOT FASTER. If that’s the point of doing dungeon, i can suggest you join the Orr Dynamic event Trains. In three days, you will have your set.

But don’t nerf dungeons, and don’t patch speed runs! It could be contradictory, but if people finds a CLEVER way (not exploiting) to speed up things, there is enjoyment even in this. No point in keeping them from trying (and die trying), if those are not exploits, but class features used in ingenious ways.

TL;DR Try and ENJOY yourself in doing dungeons or whatever, don’t mind people who complains because it is not “fast/easy enough for them”.

@MajorMelchett
You’re right about constructive suggestions. But, most of the comment on this and the other thread don’t want “suggestions” to how to make it work, they only want the old build restored.

Instead of trying and resurrect the old build, we should bring up a NEW build which is even better than the defunct “Symbol build”.

I don’t have much skill with the Greatsword, even pre-patch, but i have lots of experience with the Guardian, so i am offering what i can to bring up a NEW build from the ashes of the patch.

1) People is referring too much to “solo play”. I think that with the changes, GS has become a “party weapon”. The ability to finish more often clearly augments party playstyle, and clearly (at least in my eyes) bring to light other weapons as “solo play”, like the hammer or the sword/torch.

2) When i have to play the Greatsword, i have now an aggressive playstile, based on consecration and leaps (to activate Retaliation/Fire Armor). I suggest myself to the party as “finisher man” with every field they put in, to activate all the combos i can, even using Binding on immune boss if necessary. GS has three finishers, and while not all of them do the same damage, they all work to combo. This brings up interesting synergies, and while we cannot exploit them alone, we can surely abuse them in group play.

3) The Symbol build was based on a endless repetition of #1-#4 abilities, augmented from the (almost) 24/7 uptime of the SoW. We cannot duplicate this uptime, but we can use other symbols to reach the same effect. For example, we can pair the GS with another weapon that creates symbols: the Hammer, Staff and Mace come to mind. Swap time is 10s, so by the time we come back to the GS, the CD will reset and we can continue to put symbols on the ground. Swapping could be even more interesting with the right runes (Hydromancy, Bloodlust, Energy).

4) Other good effects are Consecrations, while not symbols, Sanctuary and Wall of Reflection both provide Retaliation if comboed (while defending from attacks, altough not doing damage) while Purging Flames and Hallowed Ground provide Fire Armor/Burning Bolts. This could bring to a mixed Symbols/Consecrations build.

But even with these or other hints.. the main point is…

IT WOULD NEVER BE THE SAME AS BEFORE!

Sorry for the emphasis, but that is the point. Whining because it has all become an “auto-attack feast”, is not constructive. Trying and make good use of the hints provided, even with the example for other weapons (what i do with the hammer can be easily adapted for the GreatSword) surely is.

Having Determination in making our class shine is different from being stubborn and stagnating.

Wall of Reflection FTW.

I really cannot tell you the number of KILLS i did with this simple spell. People keeps shooting them to near death, sometimes for stupidity because they’re mashing their “rotation”, and sometimes because lag kills them before they can change target.
Oh, and the mobs are stupid as hell. They keep shooting and shooting till they kill themselves. I traited 10 virtues only for this spell

Retreat!

I wonder why nobody has mentioned this utility. Swiftness is useful off combat, but in combat you will love the Aegis, and your friend too! Try shouting before of a big boss ability… your allies will love the “Block!” flashing on their screen

Contemplation of Purity

Another all-purpose utility, has saved me so many times that i lost count. This is most useful in PvE, because in PvP your purging won’t save you, Stand your Ground is much better.

These three are my “jack of all trades” utilities, but i use them all, based on circumstances.

I will try using the shield, you’ve picked my curiosity.

@iowen (reply button isn’t working)

These are burst damage anyway. And while they’re fun in WvW, in PvE against bosses and tough minions, those kind of numbers means BIG aggro and trashing of the warrior/thief in glass cannon builds.

I much rather prefer to do my 3-4k per swing and keep staying there, while providing my allies with all kind of healing and boons.

And we do a lot of healing, only not burst. With Battle Presence we can provide 84 hp * second (2.1k in 25s), and we can augment with Hold the Line for another 1.2k over 8s.

All the while providing protection (24/7 for melee if you have hammer) and might (with decent critical).

Don’t underestimate our importance in groups. Yesterday we were running a dungeon, and i always used Empower (staff) to give 15+ stacks of might to all… well, that worked wonders on my allies (ironically, the warrior reached his personal best at 30k with Hundred Blades), while i dished my 12k with my 3-hammer chain.

Yes, we don’t do burst damage, but we can let our parties do much more damage combined than every class can bring, being that we sustain them with boons or protection, or buff them with might.

Don’t be stuck on damage numbers. Intelligent groups know our value.

Brutaly.6257

@fabsm
yeah those are nice if you are happy with the dps/cc/mobility.

I played around with those and steal health on swap (about 1k) and had both in my spvp set during bwe 1 and 2 when i was playing 1h sword and scepter mainly.

Those are really nice and i think they team up very nice with a crithammer build.

Your math seems correct but you need to add one parameter and that is its only in pve you are not actually gonna hit even close as often. In pvp people tend to move hence i like sigils that i can control the effect on and not be dependent on an other persons skill or shortcomings.

Those runes and food are great with that setup. Shiat i got interested myself to try those in wvw, here goes an other 10 gold :-)

Hi Brutaly,

have you tried blood/vampirism/lifesteal buff in WvW?
I have put up a makeshift set of runes/sigil, but since i am missing the berserker jewels i don’t have enough critical (i am 30%) to test it properly.

I am going in that direction however, and will tell you how it goes when i have all items.

I could try that in sPvP but i wanted to see the effect in WvW and PvE.

I absolutely love the combination Hammer/Staff.

I usually go with the 3-hit chain / dodge away/ mighty blow back/ Knockdown #4 / Dodge Away and switch to staff (Symbol of Energy) / Symbol / Empower / dodge away, autohit and kite till swap again.

This make me move in every step except for the third hit of the chain (i have to wait for the field to appear to dodge or i cancel the hit). I have worn down 3 veterans at the time in this way, without going under the 50% hp.

It is never boring, you have to stay on your toe, insert virtues and shouts when needed, and generally only autohit when all CD are used up.

What i find boring is sticking with one weapon. I like to swap and change weapons based on what i have to fight. Even Hammer/Staff are not written in stone for me.

MajorMelchett.6042:

tom.7468:

go check out 1:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_FskSWHLgE&feature=relmfu
now most damage from greatsword come from autoattack thanks for the pointless nerf.
“we dont want players to grind” … yes you do

“I swung a sword, i swung a sword again, hey i swung it again”, yep that does actully sound a lot like the guardian GS now (and actully very much like the hammer in PvE).

My Hammer attack routine in PVE is:
Thump (move), Thump (move), Symbol (Dodge-heal), Mighty Blow, Knockdown (Dodge Away), Swap Weapon (Staff-Simbol of Energy), Empower, Symbol (move away), Orb (Move away and start to kite) , Autohit till Swap (kite) , Swap to Hammer, Rinse and Repeat.

I usually insert one or more Virtues or Utilities in between, especially Save Yourselves and Retreat (they’re nice healing with Altruistic Healing).

I run with larger symbols, mainly because for me the AoE is better than the alternatives, especially at Orr when often i have 3+ mobs on me. I run with the improved Retaliation duration because of Mighty Blow + SoP.

This is far from being boring, and i can wear down even 2-3 veterans with this routine. I bet the same could be applied with Greatsword/Staff. If you like big numbers you can even switch the Empower at the end, before swapping and go home with 15+ Stacks of Might.

The secret is being adaptable, if you are missing the days of “1-2-3-4, rinse and repeat, mob is dead” you’re only clinging to the past.

Finally, our class is not defined from a single weapon or a single build. We have lots of them, i like and use them all. Everyone of us has her preference, of course, but sticking with an outdated build because “it worked well and i want it back” is not constructive for our class at all.

illgot.1056:

Tom Gore.4035:

It would fix the buy orders that are under the vendor price at least.

no one can fill those buy orders and no one can post buy orders below the +1c vender price.

What’s the issue with them existing if they have no effect on the market?

A lot of overhead on the Trading Post system. I cannot estimate how many bids are there, but i bet we are on the order of the hundreds of thousands..

This is a rather known of trying and make money, but it’s a gamble. It really depends on what bags you buy and at what price.

Most times at today price you will lose money.

MrGorkajuice.8391:

Fabsm.5897:

Do you have better solutions?

I have the distinct feeling that Savage Deathknell, like me, do not think there’s a problem, and therefore no demand for a solution. I find the TP vastly preferable to any trading mechanism I’ve ever seen in any other MMO. It’s superior to other trading mechanisms both in terms of providing a useful way of getting stuff I need for my character, and in terms of giving me a trading minigame to profit from.

Bots are bad, and old below-vendor orders are useless noise, but the TP itself is excellent.

This will be a two-fold answer to you and Savage Deathknell.

I really enjoy the market game. I liked that in every MMO i have played, and i am a crafter by nature. I could be one of those people who likes buying in large quantity and selling them (or the crafted byproducts), but right now i feel the market is so depressed (“dumbed down” as Savage suggested) that i cannot enjoy myself in any way.

I think putting a time limit will solve some of the price stagnation, and even bot flooding. When bot are constantly pressed to put things on the market, and losing money to do that constantly (because they have to sell them), they will start selling at buy order value instead of leaving their selling list there because it is infinite.

Remember that bot time is money, whatever step makes them losing time will slowly chase them away. Players that “play the game” won’t mind re-placing a listing. Bots, however, would have to stop botting to replace their unfulfilled order or listings (or buy order in the case of market bots). That would be catastrophic in their gold-per-hour rate.

That could solve many bot problems when their gold rate will drop to the point that selling items won’t cut anymore.

MrGorkajuice.8391:

I find it rather amusing that you actually consider Auctioneer’s ability to earn you a profit – without caring what you were selling – a credit to the WoW AH.

I was referring to “easier markets”, not to “better markets”. WoW AH was different, cross server was the only brainwork involved, really easier in all cases.

I am not saying it would be “easier for me”.

I am doing research, and doing my homework, and, yes, i am making money even in this market. Not “Tons of Gold” as you tell me, but something nevertheless.

What i propose is doing something about the bots and the “precursor effect” phenomenon.

Savage Deathknell.2036:

I’ve got news for ya, bud. This is – hands down – the easiest in-game market to turn a profit on I’ve ever seen in an MMO, The only ones complaining are those not patient enough to do the research/planning necessary to turn a profit, plain and simple.

I disagree.
The easiest in-game market was the WoW-style auction house. I made money without knowing what i bought and sold, only using Auctioneer.

This market could be MUCH easier but… it is flooded by bots. And the only thing that can stop the bots, in my opinion is killing quantity orders.

The normal user don’t place thousands of orders. She places an order for something he wants, or buys it directly. The auctioneer makes money with lots of orders.. let’s say tenths per day.
Bots are putting thousands of orders per day, flooding the market for even 1c gains.

I think even putting a 1c fee on buy orders will stop most of the bots on the market ATM.

Do you have better solutions?

Yes, i am not mad.
What i am asking here is for both of these things.

1) A total TP reset. Buy orders and sell listings (with refund).
2) A 3 days time limit on buy orders and sell listings.
3) [Optional] A 5% fee on buy orders (this is not needed but could be useful to limit rampant buy orders).

The reasons:
Right now, the market is impossible because of the undercutters that simply keep putting buy orders within 1c of the sell price “because they can”. The won’t mind if the order goes unfulfilled, because they know that even if it goes unfulfilled, the price won’t turn back because their order is there to stay.
The other buyers will (obviously) pile up on their order, and voilà , instant market demand!

Putting a 3 day limit will severely cripple this tactic, especially if coupled with a fee. Now you won’t put a 100k butter buy order at 1c, because you will lose 50s each time. And will only last for three days, however.

The fee won’t stop rightful buyers, because they will put orders at the “right” price, that of a needed demand. If the sell price is The time limit could be a little detrimental, but will help raise prices: do you take a gamble in putting a low order, or go safe and put a reasonable one, or buy the item at listed sell price?

There is always the risk of the “instant demand”, of a person undercutting with a buy order of few items, but then the market will flush them, fulfilling them or letting them expire. The “instant demand” will last 3 days, and if it is not supported by “real demand”, then will expire and leave the higher prices in their wake.

This change could help stabilize economy and giving crafting a reason to exist. Sure, inflaction will go rampant at first, but then crafters will be back, will buy materials and craft and stabilize crafted items’ prices.

This could even help with the “precursor effect” in a way. No people will list them so high, fearing they will lose money in the process. People which would like to have a precursor will put a buy order at a reasonable price, taking a gamble it won’t be fulfilled, and losing the 5% fee. No more sell 350g buy 130g effect, prices will tend to align after awhile, reducing the impact of the “precursor effect”.

Could it be a reasonable way of dealing with the crafting problem and the TP depression? What do you think about it?

And please don’t troll with “It won’t work period”, i think you can be constructive and tell us WHY, as i explained why it could work for me.

I just think this is a byproduct of the leveling spree.
We are only 45 days in the game. People keep forgetting this, and starts thinking this game has been out for years like WoW.

It is perfectly normal you cannot craft for profit. All people which leveled crafting to 400 have to sell their crafted good one way or another, and most have found easier to put them in the Trading Post Bin, instead of salvaging or selling them to a vendor, because is faster and less time-consuming.

The real reason that we cannot make money on crafting is the “unlimited time posting” of the TP. People keep putting Buy orders within 1c of the vendor price because they can and is not costing anything to do it. The orders keep piling on, and price is “low”.

When “normal” sellers go see what their object is worth… they often go with the buy order price, because they (justly) think that if they put a “good” selling price they won’t sell them and they will lose even the 5% fee and have to relist.

It will be radically different if buy order would cost something. Even something that would be refunded upon completing them within, let’s say, 3 days?

We won’t see as much buy orders us before, because people won’t throw money out of the window only to “undercut for the sake of it”.

And basically, a TP reset could be useful. Will clean a lot of junk.

Most of my point works in a PvE prospective.

What i mean is: don’t discard this change as an opportunity to learn new ways of using your favorite weapons.

Do you have a longer CD on SoW? Maybe is time to bring up our Consecration (even in PVE) to substitute for the longer CD. Purging Flames with Master of Consecration is 32 seconds CD, you can always alternate the two fields and another weapon (let’s say a mace) and obtain a similar result than before, only different, because instead of a 100% retaliation uptime, you will have 66% retaliation 33% might.

It is more difficult (you have to switch, you have to use skills you don’t normally use), but you will have a different approach. Maybe you will be used to having might.

What i say is: adapt please. Give it a try.

I played Guardian from the release and always in Greatsword from 6 to 80. It was really satisfying and funny to play, and i remember the thrill of whirling 6-7 mobs to death with a laugh, because they were killing themselves at the same time.

I now play hammer, and i read that some of you said it was boring and the “nerfs” to the Greatsword. So i fetched back my rusty Dragonkiller and went to killing mobs and players.

From what i saw, and it is consistent with what Animus said, they had an overreaction to the “infinite retaliation” problem that plagued many people in WvW.

But, it stops there. Yes, you won’t have perma-SoW anymore. But whining to have it back stagnating. We now have a better leap, why don’t use it to full. Use your utilities to compensate. What the kitten, use YOUR COMPANIONS to compensate!

Fire fields combine very well with leap, giving Area Might and increasing our DPS more than Symbol of Wrath: if you get ours, combined with Master of Consacration and a good, aggressive gameplay, you will work wonders.

And i suggest you go in a more active playstyle, using an underestimated trait (Reckless Daring? i can’t remember the exact name) to insert our healing-dodges in between the chain! You will get used to the animation timing and make that less boring (is what i do with the hammer, that really has only #1 and #2 skills).

Sure, these suggestions won’t give you back the thrill of rampaging in the enemies almost non-stop with 2-3… and laughing at their pathetic attempt of damaging you..

I will miss those times, but we should adapt and endure. We are Guardians, and we will find a way to get the most of our rusty Greatswords in time. This thread could be the start of the new “Greatsword build” that will rule them all.

Till then… learn, adapt and endure, Guardians of Tyria!

Here it is. First version, i have to find a good hammer skin and decide if i’ll leave slate grey for the cloak, but i really like it

Wreknar.5076:

Had my guardian, Iyri, at 80 for awhile plugging away at cultural gear. Finally finished the gear skins I wanted and now she’s ready for show and tell.

I WANT that Hammer skin. Please, tell me where i can get it!

Brutaly.6257:

@FabsmThere are plenty of valid sigils if you are not comfortable with energy. Hydromancy, battle, strength, fire, ice, life leech on swap, life leech on crit, just to mention a few.

Incidentally, you gave me an hint on a possible build.

Is the

Superior Sigil of Blood

Double-click to apply to a weapon.
30% Chance on Critical: Steal Health (This effect cannot trigger more than once every 2 seconds)
Bind on Acquire

actually viable in this setup?

As we base our DPS and our gamestyle on crit, this sigil could be another survivability buffer to try.

Speculating:
With 50% crit chance on hammer, 1 hit out of 6 will activate the sigil.

I read on the wiki and on guru that the sigil heals for about 453 (AND +12,5% of healing power on top, unconfirmed).

If it is activated every other cooldown (statistically we activate it 1/6, but we have at most a 50% chance of it not being activated, due to cooldown), it is almost like having regeneration with 100% uptime (regen is about 148 per second) and stacking.

Did i crunched my numbers right?

This strategy could be further advanced using 2 Runes of Vampirism (5% life steal on hit, 15 sec CD) and Blackberry Pie (40% steal life on critical, +50 Precision), to get good and steady life stealing.

That would mean giving up Rune of the Soldiers 6th bonus, so they could be switched off with other great bonus as Eagle, Forge, Divinity and so on.

Let me know your opinions.

Let me join my voice in the steadfast (or stubborn?) Guardian community and say that we can easily endure this nerf because we ARE GUARDIANS.

We protect, we cleanse, we fight, we endure. We are Guardians of the people and of our party members, and every group with a Guardian has to look at him/her with pride, because they were lucky to have a member of the best elite warrior group of Tyria!

Let the so-called Guardians whine and abandon the way… they were not and would never be up to our standards, and our community will only gain if these weaklings change their profession to something easier.

We will endure even them, and be proud of being the Protectors of Tyria!

My opinion is: don’t bother.
Explorer gear (even exotic) is only 18% magic find. Not worth it. Now, if you get 5*Pirate and 1* Traveler Rune, you’re putting on 60% magic find on your favorite armor set.
With a superior Sigil of Luck, it is another 10% (most of the time) magic find, without screwing your stats.

The best of both worlds. Until you have enough money to buy two or more sets and switch when needed (dungeons, pvp, etc).

Now, just give us a hammer skill 5 that works (and cannot be jumped off, dodged in, avoided in all manners) and we’re getting somewhere…

Hi Brutaly,

thank you for this guide. It really changed my point of view about the hammer and the Guardian class in general.

I now have knight armor, working on my 6* Rune of the Soldier and Berserker Accessories.

I am now at 0/5/30/30/5, but thinking of switching off Radiance for Virtues to get a little more flexibility with another trait.

I have a question for you. I haven’t decided my Sigils yet. Do i have to get a Energy Sigil for my Hammer or for the secondary weapon? And if the answer is 1), that means i have to make two swaps to have the regen: it is worth it?

I really can’t decide about the sigil, i think 5% damage is lousy, tempted on Hydromancy but i don’t really know if it is efficent.

Not related, i am having a really tough time with ranged guys, especially the bombardiers in Caduceus Manor Exp… they trash me everytime sigh. I guess adding a little more toughness could be useful, but i fear that i will lose on DPS.

Thanks in advance for the answers, and good job on the other posters too. You are really helpful for us newbies

It is obtained at Mystic Forge.

You should head to the Wiki, and look at the materials needed.

But a warning: Crafting them is not convenient at all.