Guild Wars 2

Thanks Mr. Sharp for recognizing when the community is clear and concise in attempt to improve upon a game they love.

Thanks for all the positive comment’s and feedback guys. This is probably some of the most mature and constructive responses I’ve seen on a post yet.

Arheundel.6451:

Fellknight.4820:

Alot of people keep saying that GW2 has none of the unique and innovative qualities that GW1 had and I have to disagree.

Never in an MMO has there been such a unique and ground breaking idea’s seen in GW2. It’s the first MMO that had a weapon swapping system which incorporated class and combat styles to change dynamically based on the tools a player picks.

Sadly there are a few broken mechanics over-shadowing all the good stuff dev’s have made. Which really isn’t a big deal to fix and I don’t know why dev’s haven’t clued into them or made steps to improve them.

1. Burst damage and I’m not just talking about thieves, there are a ton of classes with damage just set way too high. It compounds the problem when you add more players in the mix and makes fights way to short. PvP should be a intricate dance where players try to set up for combo’s while the opponent counters and looks for weaknesses. Fights in this game are way to clunky, mindless, and fast.

2. Protection, there are way too many ways to stack it and build unkillable bunkers, with the currently design of burst it’s needed but with the burst lowered it would need to be adjusted so players can’t survive such a storm of damage with passive skills that require no talent. If the burst was lowered toughness is set just about right but with the current set-up provides lil to no protection vs the massive dps spikes without protection stacking(duration not effect)

3. Haste, can’t be toned down adjusted or made to be correct, just doesn’t fit this games set-up or skill design at all, it needs to be removed. Any attempt to adjust fine tune or manage this skill will lead to a ton of other class balance issues that will confound the problem making it worse.

4. Stealth-Rendering this needs to be addressed ASAP and fixed, you shouldn’t expect to have players fight an enemy they can neither see or target. I cannot empathize how important it is for this fix to come, ignoring it any longer will literally be the destruction of the game and make all other problem’s moot as you will lose your entire player-base to this one issue alone.

Fix these four little issues’s and you got yourself a great pvp game that will grow and grow.

Professions like : guardian-elementalist-engineer rely on this boon to stay alive and be actually viable, it’s not the protection boon which make the guardian near unkillable, it’s a combination of those full HP heal elites-block and knockdown/knockback

If burst was lowered, protection also needs to be reduced in duration to compensate, as toughness would work as it was intended. Diminishing returns for CC abililties should also probably be added, but would need to be addressed carefully.

Alot of people keep saying that GW2 has none of the unique and innovative qualities that GW1 had and I have to disagree.

Never in an MMO has there been such a unique and ground breaking idea’s seen in GW2. It’s the first MMO that had a weapon swapping system which incorporated class and combat styles to change dynamically based on the tools a player picks.

Sadly there are a few broken mechanics over-shadowing all the good stuff dev’s have made. Which really isn’t a big deal to fix and I don’t know why dev’s haven’t clued into them or made steps to improve them.

1. Burst damage and I’m not just talking about thieves, there are a ton of classes with damage just set way too high. It compounds the problem when you add more players in the mix and makes fights way to short. PvP should be a intricate dance where players try to set up for combo’s while the opponent counters and looks for weaknesses. Fights in this game are way to clunky, mindless, and fast.

2. Protection, there are way too many ways to stack it and build unkillable bunkers, with the currently design of burst it’s needed but with the burst lowered it would need to be adjusted so players can’t survive such a storm of damage with passive skills that require no talent. If the burst was lowered toughness is set just about right but with the current set-up provides lil to no protection vs the massive dps spikes without protection stacking(duration not effect)

3. Haste, can’t be toned down adjusted or made to be correct, just doesn’t fit this games set-up or skill design at all, it needs to be removed. Any attempt to adjust fine tune or manage this skill will lead to a ton of other class balance issues that will confound the problem making it worse.

4. Stealth-Rendering this needs to be addressed ASAP and fixed, you shouldn’t expect to have players fight an enemy they can neither see or target. I cannot empathize how important it is for this fix to come, ignoring it any longer will literally be the destruction of the game and make all other problem’s moot as you will lose your entire player-base to this one issue alone.

Fix these four little issues’s and you got yourself a great pvp game that will grow and grow.

Honestly this class should be deleted and every player given a choice of class change and equal gear. It’s a terribad design allowing players with little to no pvp skill compete with players.

The one thing that makes most players hate pvp is theif so fix the glitch.

I keep hearing glass cannon over and over lol you have stealth that defeats every con that comes with Glass Cannon.

Nope there fixing the problem, by ignoring all the gross imbalances and talentless insane dps 2-4 button clicks.

Soon they’ll be so few players there will be no need to maintain the servers and no game to work on, problem solved.

This class is mad annoying personally I think they should have had the elementalist’s dmg and the elementalist had mesmer burst but whatever.

The few tricks I’ve learned that have helped me.

Clones don’t roll or back up and you need to use any block retalitate or every dodge you can while your going for a target lock. You cannot afford to take dps while you don’t have a target.

When you see the all the phantasm’s or clones running at you it’s shatter time, agian use any roll block or ret abilities now.

It’s really hard to fight these guys if you have no ranged attacks and even with all that you could still lose but it’s all I’ve found that has let me beat them.

Why are we all pretending that stealth rendering doesn’t happen theives currently can stay invis for almost the entire fight.

There’s endless video’s of players getting hit over and over agian by a guy they cannot target or see.

If your saying Armor with protection save’s you then your flat out playing a theif and lying. Only retaliation can counter theives atm and not everyone can trigger this.

If burst of this game doesn’t get toned down for all classes and protection stacking nerfed, and stealth rendering fixed, then this game won’t last till christmas.

I don’t know why player’s hand out the worst possible advice like they are pro’s and act like they’ve handed you pearls.

Use Signet of Stamina it’s active removes every condition on you

Then spec 10 pts into Discipline for Signet Mastery it drops the cooldown on SoS to 36 secs.

I use the warhorn to remove cripples so they can’t kite me.

Having a 36 sec remove all conditions is about as good as it gets for any class, if your still having trouble after that you need to raise your dmg output. IDK about you but if I can get 6 secs of axe swings on a necro there in serious trouble.

I built my ranger around theives, fought a theif the other day in a BG and won. While I was trying to stomp the theif that tried to gank me, two other thieves backstabbed me to downed and stomped me lmfao.

At this point I laughed and said ok enough of guild wars 2.

I never played an MMO with this many theives, and that’s a bold statement.

Syeria.4812:

Fellknight.4820:

Your right in perfect world this is how it should work, and people in New Orleans should have gotten help and support from FIMA long before it got that bad, but sadly we don’t live in a perfect world.

Name me one car mechanic that also is top 10 rated nascar driver. Name me one basketball coach that also played in the NBA and was a top rated player. and then realize there is more than 20 game design companies out there and not one of them has a top rated player in pvp on it. So if you can name one player/coach from any other sport team then your way ahead of where gaming is. Designing and gaming are two totally different things, just like coaching and playing are two totally different entities.

If you really think that every player wants to win by cheating your dead wrong, will a player resort to cheating in an unbalanced game ABSOLUTLEY! But I have seen more skilled mmo players call out imbalances in classes they play more so then devs have ignored gross imbalances in classes they favor.

Anet just said the classes they are looking at for imbalance, guess what theif and mesmer weren’t even mentioned, nuff said.

Name one NASCAR driver who does the maintenance on his race car. Name one NFL player who writes the rulebook. They don’t, and there’s plenty of reasons for them not to. In fact, there aren’t really any benefits to having active involvement from pros because they’re biased. How does the NFL come up with their rules changes? By observing how professionals play the game. Take the NHL instead, rule changes there aren’t sourced from the players (although there is opportunity for players to give their input if they choose, much like this forum here). When the league considers making a change, they test them out in practice games where non-pros (specifically 15-17 year old Canadian kids) play with those new rules so the league can evaluate how the changes might impact the game. That’s just like the test servers that Anet employs to test their balance and rule changes for this game. The NFL works in similar ways through their partnerships with the NCAA and high school football organizations.

Real world sports use the same system as game developers do to design and tweak their games because it’s the superior system.

As for cheating, the only one “dead wrong” is you. LoL, CS:S, SC2, and basically every multiplayer game ever to hit the market has cheaters amongst the pros.

But don’t take my word for it. Here’s what clowN, a Counter-Strike: Source professional gamer has to say about the matter:

clowN”

I would like to come clear about everything, YES, Devour and I did cheat simple as that.

I’m sorry did you just quote an FPS player in referance to MMO PVP game. When’s the last time you saw a GM joining fps rooms to ban players from hacking???

I’ve seen many players get banned from hacking in MMO’s but never in FPS. Plus Hacking and exploiting are two different things. Hacking is plain and simple cheating, exploiting however is using a flaw in the game designers veiw to use agianst other players.

Hack’s are what players use to cheat and must be enforced to stop. Exploits are the designers missing something that players found. One is player abuse, the other is designer negligence. Both are bound to happen but the response time till fix is what determines good designers from bad ones.

BTW I never asked for players to write the rulebook just test the game, not have the final say or evalute the testing. Just that they, not joe IDK how to play a necro guy, test the class so that 100,000 thousand players don’t jump on Suck necro guy’s idea of where class balance should rely.

According to you I should buy a car from an unknown company that had no credited source test it’s crash course. Yeah maybe the car is cheaper that way but i wouldn’t trust my kid in it. Your quoting NCAA, NBA all these leagues that enforce cheating in basketball and they still fail at it. But I should trust anet’s pvp opinion because there designers when no league or organisation is making sure there game is fair? lol really.

Syeria.4812:

Fellknight.4820:

Your very well informed which makes me believe your actually an Anet developer on an alternate account. Because there is no way a pvper gamer since Uo(ultima online) and Everquest 1 could spew such fanboi nonsense in the game developers favor.

It is actually pro game pvper’s that point out most of the terrible abuses of class imbalances in mmo’s. In Everquest one there was no players asking for manaburn a one button killshot on players lol no! Designers added that all on there own followed by a flood of hardcore pvpers with screenshots saying nerf manaburn submitted by wizards themselves. I know I was one of them. Did the designers listen nope they were more concerned with pve content.

No hardcore pvper wants to win by class imbalance, they want to win by skill. They are the guys who can take the worst class and make it shine, there good no matter what you hand them. At blizzcon one year Blizzard dev’s kept running there mouths, so one kid challenged them 3v1 he beat 3 blizz devs just him.

So if your here to tell me we can trust dev’s opinions on pvp vs hardcore pvpers your dead wrong. Because half the dev’s your talking about I know and they are the one’s stacking the odd’s in there choice pick classes favor not the hardcore pvper’s. And don’t kid yourself by believing that Top Dev’s don’t have alt character’s in major guilds. There isn’t a single MMO I can name that a main dev wasn’t abusing his power to stack in his guild or classes favor.

Opening your post with a claim that you’re talking to a sock puppet is a great way to make people reject every single thing you have to say afterwards, and certainly won’t win you any sway with anyone who could potentially make your wishes a reality.

Pro players want to “win with skill?” I bet that’s why no one screen peeked at that LoL tournament a few weeks ago. What’s that you say? Both teams playing during the stoppage were caught cheating, and one of them went on to take second in the tournament? The reality is that pros want to win, and for the most part, they don’t care how as long as they don’t get in trouble for it.

Do devs play the game and want to protect “their” class from balance adjustments? I’d imagine they probably do, but then again, balance teams aren’t just 2-3 people who all play as warrior, no matter how much you try to claim that’s true. There’s likely the same distribution of mesmers/warriors/thieves/guardians/engineers/necros/eles/rangers as there is amongst normal players. Balance decisions aren’t made based upon gut feelings or impassioned arguments. They’re largely based upon real life metrics. Anet should have a wealth of data from the frequency of guardians traiting into AH to the number of tPvP winners that include three bunker builds. Balance decisions should be based on spreadsheets, not whiny forum posts.

Your right in perfect world this is how it should work, and people in New Orleans should have gotten help and support from FIMA long before it got that bad, but sadly we don’t live in a perfect world.

Name me one car mechanic that also is top 10 rated nascar driver. Name me one basketball coach that also played in the NBA and was a top rated player. and then realize there is more than 20 game design companies out there and not one of them has a top rated player in pvp on it. So if you can name one player/coach from any other sport team then your way ahead of where gaming is. Designing and gaming are two totally different things, just like coaching and playing are two totally different entities.

If you really think that every player wants to win by cheating your dead wrong, will a player resort to cheating in an unbalanced game ABSOLUTLEY! But I have seen more skilled mmo players call out imbalances in classes they play more so then devs have ignored gross imbalances in classes they favor.

Anet just said the classes they are looking at for imbalance, guess what theif and mesmer weren’t even mentioned, nuff said.

But then agian isn’t my whiny forum post asking for spreadsheets from the best qualified people for the task. I wouldn’t ask your 9th grade biology teacher to advise my heart surgeon on the best way to cut me open.

Syeria.4812:

I can’t say there’s a single reasonable claim in that entire spiel.

Why is class balance always an extreme? Because player opinion and reality don’t generally match. Just because players claim something is imbalanced doesn’t mean it really is. But ultimately something will always be imbalanced because there are simply too many moving parts for perfect balance in a game. Players have a nearly infinite amount of time to find and exploit imbalances, developers have extremely limited time and resources to detect and adjust out those imbalances. Every time there’s an adjustment, it’s likely that something new becomes imbalanced and the cycle starts again. No amount of “experts” will prevent this as it’s simply a fact of life.

Furthermore on that “pro” point, why would real pros ever actually engage in that? Any pro involved in open manipulation of balance systems would necessarily have to be forbidden from professional play or else they’d have incentive to cheat. Therefore you could never actually have current pros offering direct aid to the developers. They could still be used to test, but where’s the incentive for them to waste their time testing things which might never be implemented when they could use that time for anything else? Ultimately, the only reasonable solution is to make small adjustments and allow the much larger testing environment show you the results, which is what developers do.

WoW has absolutely nothing to do with why there’s pvp content in games. Games offer pvp content because it’s the cheapest, easiest, and most effective way to extend the life of a game. Look at the original Half-Life, you have maybe a dozen hours worth of “PvE” content that took so many developer hours to make, yet then you have Counter-Strike “PvP” built on top of the engine. CS was produced with far less effort, time, and cost but the upper end players have sunkittenerally thousands of hours into a much easier to develop world. PvP is offered because it’s a solid business investment, and has absolutely nothing to do with WoW, otherwise EQ, UO, and even the original GW which predate WoW’s dominance wouldn’t have had reason to include it.

As for 1v1 for balance purposes, you’ve already been thoroughly schooled on that point. Balancing for 1v1 could only ever be useful if you were making the most static, simplistic game ever that effectively had no gameplay diversity. If you want something “balanced for 1v1” you’d best stick to FPS games as that’s really the only place it makes any sense.

Your very well informed which makes me believe your actually an anet dev in disguise lol. I’ve just never met a pvper gamer since Uo(ultima online) and Everquest 1 with such faith in developers.

It is actually pro game pvper’s that point out most of the terrible abuses of class imbalances in mmo’s, atleast in my exp. In Everquest one there was no players asking for manaburn a one button killshot on players lol no! Designers added that all on there own followed by a flood of hardcore pvpers with screenshots saying nerf manaburn submitted by wizards themselves. I know I was one of them. Did the designers listen nope they were more concerned with pve content.

No hardcore pvper wants to win by class imbalance, they want to win by skill. They are the guys who can take the worst class and make it shine, there good no matter what you hand them. At blizzcon one year Blizzard dev’s kept running there mouths, so one kid challenged them 3v1 he beat 3 blizz devs just him.

So if your here to tell me we can trust dev’s opinions on pvp vs hardcore pvpers your dead wrong. Because half the dev’s your talking about I know and they are the one’s stacking the odd’s in there choice pick classes favor not the hardcore pvper’s. And don’t kid yourself by believing that Top Dev’s don’t have alt character’s in major guilds. There isn’t a single MMO I can name that a main dev wasn’t abusing his power to stack in his guild or classes favor.

Scribbles.7493:

The reason people like PvP is because you can never really be certain what is going to happen next in a PvP setting. It’s always dynamic and changing.

In PvE, once you’ve done a dungeon, that’s it. The only thing that’s going to be different about it from then on is the loot.

That’s why I love it, But most players seem to want to play skyrim or fable with friends, I personally don’t get it. But hey that’s what they like who am I to judge.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Agreed with a fair number of things, but…

“If 1v1 isn’t balanced then how could 8v8 be, and how the hell do you know if 8v8 is balanced if you haven’t tested it in 1v1 then 2v2 then 3v3 etc.”

This just flat out isn’t true. Having a group makes a huge difference on the usefulness of many skills and abilities.

A shortbow thief, for instance, can work with a healing spring ranger to greatly increase the healing output of anyone in the area. Neither the ranger, or the thief can do that alone, yet you can’t ignore how powerful the combination can be.

How useful is an AoE skill in 5v5 combat compared to 1v1? Certain skills get better the more people there are around, wheras other skills (usually single target) get worse.

In group combat, someone who is downed is far from doomed. Allies can bring him back up in a variety of ways. If alone, down state is just a slight extension on the inevitable.

These are just a few ways in which the meta-game is effected by more players. Don’t even get me started on how it effects ranged weapondry, or skills/traits with positional requirements.

Your right about alot of things balance needs to be adjusted around group synergy and abilities as well as 1v1 pvp. But if you don’t bring in pvp players that have proven themselves in game after game then how do you know?

Player A could miss that player B did this and that changed the entire fight. I’m not saying that balance in a group or that team abilities of different classes stacked with each other can’t change the fight entirely, it can.

But you have to test it in smaller groups with exp pvp players and then test it in larger groups to find out whats off vs 1v1 and 8v8 or otherwise your just doing guess work to know where balance is. Basically your getting a designers opinion of balance and not a factual test of game balance.

I do not play a necro as my main but I have played the class alot and they are not OP, the only reason they get so much play in tournament’s is because of there Guardian shut down powers. There are honestly alot of condition/toughness specs that can tear down a guardian. Sure there tough if they blow every cooldown use lich or plague with death shroud to maximize hp’s but OP NO.

The best builds to tear down bunker builds atm are actually mid way build’s that are so un-viable in pvp due to the high burst in this game nobody will run them. I even know of a ranger and warrior build that will tear down the best bunker built guardian in 1v1 pretty fast. Sadly those builds are meat for alot of burst classes.

After playing MMO games for over 15 years you get to learn alot of the elite pvper’s and become friends with alot of designers in the industry. Believe it or not the gaming industry is like any big buisness the more corporate it becomes the more the artistic integrity of the game fails.

1. Why is Class Balance in games always one extreme or another?

They don’t care about pvp, most players only like pvp when there winning and many players can’t except losing. Why do you think theres always less pvp servers than pve one’s .

2. Then why do new games promise so much pvp content?

Because WoW has cornered the market on PvE with a playerbase unprecidented by any MMO in history. This has left a huge homeless community of hardcore pvpers other games know they can captialise on with false promises.

3. Why can’t they make Classes Balanced?

They don’t know how. When have you seen a game hiring top players, guild’s, contest winners etc. to come in and test pvp in mock battles. Just because a mechanic can fix a car does that also mean he drives for Nascar?? lol No. Often the best designers are the worst pvper’s and vice versa, different parts of the brain govern the skills necassary to excel in those different arena’s of knowledge. Can it happen sure but it’s about as rare as a flood in the desert. Until you see a game that hires pro pvper’s to test there game balance, expect the same results.

4. The game is balanced around team play.

Nowhere in this world does this make sense. Even in a science experiment you start with a small isolated model before making the scenario complex. If 1v1 isn’t balanced then how could 8v8 be, and how the hell do you know if 8v8 is balanced if you haven’t tested it in 1v1 then 2v2 then 3v3 etc. Balanced=skill vs game mechanics determining the victor, and if you havent brought in the most skilled mmo pvpers to test your 1v1 or 8v8 than how do you know what’s faulty class design and whats skill. Basically if Class A beat’s Class B 100% of the time you got a long way to go before balance is attained.

5. How come no PVP games have made 1v1 arena or dueling content

This is actually a brilliant concept designed by Tom Chilton, if you never add 1v1 ranked pvp then players can never tell where true class balance is. If you could run tests with skilled pvper’s in mock duels players would know without a doubt which classes are overpowered. If they never add this system it’s all theory-crafting, web video’s, screenshots, all easily discredited. Basically it’s not a flying saucer, you must be crazy, it’s a weather balloon.

Never said Mesmer’s need a Buff.

Can they do less dmg than a theif or Warrior, yes that’s just a fact.
Is damage on Beserker and Swordsman set way too high YES!
Are clones mad annoying + invis allowing Mesmer’s a chance to deal lots of dmg without taking it, YES!

But besides portal camping in tournies and theives can use run speed to do pretty much the same thing. I’d rather have the guy with much more dmg and insta-gibs than the Mesmer who might die to theif roamer.

But who picks up an elementalist and say’s I wanna be a Tank WTH! So You gotta play what is meant to be a burst dmg caster like a Guardian and you see nothing wrong with this picture lmfao k.

Defektive.7283:

Mesmers: shatter burst + portal + time warp…….

I’ve seen some amazing ele’s tank 4 people at once in tournies.

I don’t know where player’s come up with this crazy stuff.

So using time warp a 2 min ability, weapon swapping to pull mad clones, and than shattering them will = 4 seconds on my warriors auto atk. And that’s fair to you.

Chop, double chop, triple chop, takes 4 seconds and does 10k+ to high armor targets. That’s just an auto atk lol.

I guess that should have been listed on the box I wouldn’t have bought the game.

I don’t know why ANET has such a high opinion of Melee’s in this game but the Caster classes are just pathetic in comparsion.

My Warrior and Theif can deal more dmg than any other class in the game by far, no single two classes can touch the dmg I can put out with one of these classes.

My Warrior has 2400 armor and 21k HP’s eviscerate’s for 6k crits on high toughness targets with no protection up and 9k crits with killshot. Don’t even get me started with his auto atk dmg.

My Theif can pretty much make someone disappear in 3 sec’s only has 15k HP crap Armor BUT WHO CARES I run faster than everyone and can stealth constantly and sit in stealth with shadow refuge.

So I should play a Mesmer to:
A. Do less dmg than my theif
B. Run slower than my theif
C. Have less escapes than my theif

So I should play a Elementalist to:
A. Bunker Build worse than a guardian
B. Heal worse than a guardian
C. Do less dmg than my warrior or theif and die faster
D. You got confused with Priest and Mage

So I should play a Necro to:
A. Have alot of pets that do less dmg than a rangers
B. Condition dmg worse than a theif
C. Pretend I actually get life back with abilities and burst dmg set this high

Not a single role any of them fill that wouldn’t be done better by a Theif , Warrior or Guardian.

Your right it wont effect good theives and thats the problem with thieves, skill cap is wayyy too low.

No only in duration, but theives need to take a hit to their speed or someone else needs a buff to theres, they cant be the fastest only class with that many escapes.

Lemme get this straight but if a theif has a 10% run speed signet with a swiftness active ability something the necro, elementalist and ranger would kill for you would suddenly suck lol.

And don’t lie every theif would slot it.

So with Shadow Refuge, Hide in Shadow’s, Blinding powder, and cloak and dagger at your disposal you couldn’t possibly escape.

And with Steal, Heartseeker, Death Blossom, and Inf.Strike at your disposal you cant get right up on someone.

Cmon I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

Lol 10% run speed would make you as fast as the other fastest classes in the game and I also said make it an active swiftness on the signet Theives are sprinters not long distance runners give me one MMO that theives ran the fatest and hit the hardest.

A high burster melee needs to be kited thats why they have to be a sprinter not a steady fast runner. They have to use skills to get close, while the other class does dmg
and tries to evade.

You wanna erase that dynamic and hand theives insta kills lol go ahead but mark my words in two month you’ll be playing alone

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Fellknight.4820:

Again I’m not asking for help agianst this class, I’m pointing out that it is broken and it’s a design issue.

This tells me all I need to know, no interest in learning mechanics, no interest in learning your opponent or their moves and abilities, no interest in trying to improve your gameplay, no interest in trying to adjust your build, just QQ about the WHOLE thief class in general. Sorry they are not going to destroy a class because someone that thinks they are almighty but won’t take the time to try and learn and adapt are calling thieves OP

What your saying is a farce, you want to pretend that players don’t know how to play vs theives and that’s the problem.

You want to throw a light weight blind-folded in a ring with a heavy weight and call him a loser when he doesn’t win as if all things were equal THERE NOT!

Like I said I have no problem with a Theif in 1v1 but I had to build my entire class just to fight that one class. I’m not built for 1v1 vs any other class because I can use my abitiles and timing and pvp skill to beat any other class in 1v1. If you have to build your character around one guy THAT CLASS IS OP! And if theif uses stealth exploit I’m still gonna lose, I fought a theif yesterday that was visible for 6 out of 30 seconds!!

Now tell me how you use any stratgey to fight a player you cant’s target or hit with anything but aoe’s(which my class doesn’t have)for 24 secs out of a 30 second fight. Pls I’d love to hear your pro advice to counter that.

And I’m a Ranger the ranger class in every other game to date was designed to be the counter vs Theives. How about you play anything but a theif and then post screenshots or vids of you destroying theives so you can back up what your stating.

POST YOUR SOURCES, I’m tired of hot air!

I’m tired of terrible players posting nothing to back up their claims, I can back mine up show sources, show video’s, screenshots etc etc.

Please quote any source to back up anything you claim. PLS i’d love to embaress you with FACTS!

It’s not a latency issue if your not aware that it is indeed an exploit then you have no grounds saying anything about tournamant’s.

And every high ranked player from any other MMO and the top rated players of tournaments know it’s an exploit and agree that Mesmer and theif are totally OP.

So please start siting your facts Romney Jr.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Rank means nothing and you outscoring as number 1 is easy to do even beginners pvping for the first time can do it. Unless your high numbers are from 1v1 situations then it doesn’t determine if you are better than the others. Until/if we get Arena where 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 can be scheduled against top duelists then ranks doesn’t mean anything. Thieves/assasins always start very strong on every mmo then they get nerf real hard to the point they become so weak a lot of people stop playing them, then sometime later they get buffed again. This game won’t be any different.

I agree 1v1 is the true indicator of PvP skill hands down. However you would find that any theif who knows about the stealth exploit is undefeatable in 1v1 PvP at the moment. Yes it is a bug/exploit that many players are using to stay stealthed and still attack you while stealthed. If a theif uses this I lose, if they don’t I win, that simple.

There is not amount of skill that will EVER allow you to overcome class balance this broken.

You cannot Buff other professions to match theives that’s the problem, if you throw that much burst around fights will be WAY to short.

They need to raise Theives vitality(abit not alot), lower skill one button spam dmg and raise combo dmg, remove alot of stealth abilities , give theives more defensive and CC abilities(not stuns!) that don’t rely on stealth and lower there run-speed signet to 10% with a swiftness activate on over 1 min cooldown.

And most of all give ground drops that reveal stealthers to other classes. Not all just one or two classes that currently lack support in groups.

Please do not try to de-rail the topic at hand with Trolling.

I have clearly stated why one class should NEVER have all these abilities in their skill-set. It’s never been done in any game that featured Rogue/Theif/Assassin type classes. And there is a good reason for why it hasn’t, they didn’t want 50% of the population to be stealthers.

Personal attacks and saying L2P is pointless I’ve done this song and dance with every MMO to date and players always swarm to defend there own class using no logic, example screenshots, or video’s to provide evidence for why this isn’t a problem.

However the screenshot’s and video’s showing it is a problem is OVERWHELMING!
Whenever I see the forums flooded with complaints about one class it’s because it’s true not because the vast majority of the playerbase needs to L2P.

Whenever I see the issue ignored for too long the playerbase drops dramatically and In most cases the game dies as a result. That’s the point were at now, fix it or don’t worry about working on anything else because they’ll be no one buying the expansion and no need to work on any other aspect of the game.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Your post after the second sentence clearly states that you are complainning and asking for a nerf. You’re contradicting yourself.

Nope I clearly stated the class is broken one Nerf won’t fix it, it needs to be retooled.

I join games all day where I’m the lowest ranked person I dont hot join I select servers. Now if i’m coming in Number 1 all the time vs players who are much higher ranked then me wouldn’t that say I’m a very good pvper lol espeically when you consider I’m doing it with a ranger and out scoring the guys who made the game.

I don’t need to be rank 40 to pvp well and know my class lol after a 20 matches you should be very strong with your class, there’s not a huge learning curve for pvp in GW2.

How about responding to why you think theives should have all these things no other class has or why you feel theif here needs more than any other game has ever given that class to excel in pvp.

Again I’m not asking for help agianst this class, I’m pointing out that it is broken and it’s a design issue.

There isn’t a single MMO that has been ever made where the Theif class had Highest Burst dmg+Highest Running Speed+Spammable teleport onto Target attack’s+Could stealth every 6 sec’s and use CD stealth inbetween the 6 seconds.

Just saying it sounds insane

I also cannot think of a single MMO where ranger/scout class didn’t have some form of reveal ability to use agianst the Theif class. I’m not asking for one just stating a fact. Ranger/Scouts were given support tools to protect there group from stealth classes.

AGIAN I’M NOT ASKING FOR ANY ABILITIES FOR RANGER I THINK THEY ARE FINE AND RANGER’S DO WELL AGIANST THEIF. (However a Good ranger will still die to an average or even bad theif, they’d have to know the class inside and out to win and even then will die if theif uses invis exploit)

Here’s some screen’s of me running a BG with an ArenaNet Dev named ESRB Violations. As you can see I finish in top of any Tpvp or spvp I’ve ever run. I do as well as ArenaNet allows Rangers to play. I don’t need to learn to play and I’ll happily post Screenshot after Screenshot of me coming in number 1. That doesn’t mean that theif is balanced just means that after 15 years of mmo pvp gaming going back to Ultima Online I don’t need an OP class to excel in pvp. I would also never make excuses or lie about the class I play being fine when they are clearly not.

In no other MMO to date has a theif class had this high burst+constant run speed plus spammable invis while in combat abilities…BECAUSE IT’S STUPID!

Ranger/Hunter has always had the highest constant run speed, theives can sprint faster for awhile with a cooldown ability but run the fastest NO. Shadowbane gave theives high run speed, but they didn’t have the dmg of an Assassin to boot.

There is currently an exploit used by theives to stay invisible after attacking I’ve fought theif after theif which were invis for 16 secs out of a 20 sec fight. No amount of dodging or rolling will allow me fight someone I can’t see. You can only hit them with an AOE at that point because you drop target when they stealth.

This is not a learn to play issue, it’s a learn to design one.

First off I’m not asking for a nerf or complaining that I get killed by thieves over and over.

I’m just looking for some clarity here, I do not understand why one class would be:

The fastest class in the game, not sprinting but steady running(um isn’t that a Ranger’s job)

Why they have 3x more invis abilities than the mesmer

Why they have more Burst Damage than any other class in the game, the guardian and elementalist have the same HP pool and far less dmg. And no Bunker build beats invis for survivability.

and finally

Why any class would be given HIGH DMG spammable teleport onto target abilities?

This game has such innovative and ground breaking pvp idea’s and here’s this one TERRIBLE CLASS DESIGN destroying the enjoyment of every other class.

Most of all I don’t understand why the DEV’s don’t see this as a problem or why they would ever implement a class so broken. I do not think a nerf could fix this problem without basically bringing the class back to the drawing board. It would honestly be better for the game logevity over-all if this class was deleted.