Guild Wars 2

@Dervy

I end every match with my thief in the Number 1 slot using dual pistols and sword/dagger. I cannot burst anyone down with this spec in a few seconds it’s always a long drawn out fight that requires me to use all my abilties and make use of blindness over and over to save myself.

I don’t agree with killing a player before they can react, I don’t see how this is necessary mechanic to the thief class, or how balancing it would break a class I come in Number 1 with specs no one is complaining about.

I just don’t want any player with zero to lil pvp skill being rewarded for mashing 4 buttons there is virtually no counter for in spvp besides guardian bunker ret.

Perhaps i want to afford other classes the chance to compete in spvp and not just thieves.

ZombiesTT.3619:

Fellknight.4820:

I agree 100%, everything in the game seems to be setup to defeat any form of skill from pro solo pvper’s. Even if you could kill 2-3 players by yourself you’d never get rewarded for it because you’d never be able to stomp them with the way downed state is setup.

If you can down 3 players but not stomp them then you’re doing something wrong.

Please stop trolling, there is alot of content here you could reply to don’t derail the topic by saying everything is fine and we all just need to L2P. People are here to try and improve the spvp exp if your ok with it then I don’t see why your even on the forums at all.

The topic was about duels, and rewarding skill for solo pvp, alot of players don’t like it when you rewards broken skilless mechanics. Not every player will enjoy exploiting broken mechanics some players who are great with them, don’t enjoy winning through cheating. Now if you would like to comment on anything the OP said we’d love to hear it but I believe that there has been 3 billion players on mmo forums that posted l2play already.

I agree 100%, everything in the game seems to be setup to defeat any form of skill from pro solo pvper’s. Even if you could kill 2-3 players by yourself you’d never get rewarded for it because you’d never be able to stomp them with the way downed state is setup.

Project Shrine Maiden.9623:

i was asking you because they’re all fairly straightforward and this ‘majority of the damage’ idea you have is misled and frankly, incorrect. ill listen to aydenunited thought and stop feeding an accused troll.

Then please state how Skirmisher, Assaulter and Defender actually work I’d love to hear it but saying that’s not how they work while not providing how you believe they work is much closer to trolling than anything I’ve said.

aydenunited.5729:

Guys, don’t get suckered in, this guy only posts troll topics and responses, he’s been doing it for a while.

This is actually the definition of trolling, which is to personally assault a poster while ignoring any subject matter on the topic.

Any testing on the mechanics I’ve described will be found as accurate, and I’d love any credible statistics or facts that refute what I’m saying as I will openly admitt if I’m wrong in this case.

But every match I’ve run wielding melee has rewarded the 10pts while using rifle/bow/pistols has not unless I also dealt dmg with my melee weps.

Skirmisher is just if your not on a control point.

Defender is if your team already controls the control point

Assaulter is if the enemy controls the point.

Which doesn’t change the mechanics of anything I’ve said at all, it’s still rewarded by a player doing the majority of dmg to a player after that player is stomped or finished.

Perhaps the term skirmisher, defender, assaulter are confusing you but regardless of the three terms determined by location/control the mechanics that reward the 10pts are exactly the same.

Webley.1295:

Just the MUG/Cloak and Dagger combo is broken

With MUG being slightly over powered

20% of the backstab damage comes from the executioner trait. MUG/C&D combo in its current form can get most people down to 50%

Execution and MUG needs toning own and the combo broken. The backstab can remain as is

-Thief

I cannot agree with you that any ability should reward a player for using such little skill or planning. I believe pvp should take skill.

As I stated in my post Heartseeker and Backstab are the two biggest problems so I find it odd that those would be the two your ok with.

What you proposed wouldn’t correct the problem in the slighest even if you removed executioner trait the baskstab still would have dealt 9k dmg. And cut the mug in half and it’s still 3k dmg dealing 12k dmg. It’s like shaving 20% off a nuclear bomb and hitting a single man with it, he’s still dead as a doornail.

I don’t think anyone who doesn’t play a thief dual dagger spec would agree with you either, but i understand your motivation in saying so.

I don’t know if this is a bug or working as intended but this was kinda the last straw for me.

I receive Skirmisher, Defender, or Assaulter when I deal the majority of dmg to a player in PvP it seems to be around the 70-80% mark of thier total lifepool.

But only when that damage is dealt with a melee weapon, If I try to deal it with rifle, crossbow, pistols etc I don’t get it.

This is just terrible flat out terrible.

Many thieves have told me to play a thief to see their state of balance and I have done just that. I’ve also seen allot of support from players as they recognized my name and have given me feedback in the matches I’ve run.

First Off:

I will not address dancing dagger or cluster bomb exploit as it is not unique to this class any bouncing target ability is multiplying the dmg(like bladetrail for warriors). It is known by dev’s and reported to be fixed next patch.

I will also not address stealth rendering or culling as it also known by Dev’s as a bug and will be fixed(or so was stated) next patch.

Balance:

Dual Dagger’s is the biggest problem with Thieves. The design of this spec is quite eloquent and I find it hard to be a flaw when each ability seems to be designed intricately to work in conjunction with another.

Steal with Mug trait does alot of dmg far more than any 5pts spec I’ve seen in any other class, easily dealing 3 to 6k crits even against high to mid toughness targets. It also can apply stealth and poison to a target and regain initiative with traits.

Cloak and Dagger easily is set as 1200( that’s 1 third of an entire H.blades for a single click ability around 2-4k crits) dmg ability in spvp and tpvp modes and much higher in wvw, delivering an extreme dmg ability that also works defensively for the thief and set’s up for a backstab.

Backstab this single attack can deal more damage than any other class in the game anywhere from 6-12k dmg from a single strike and a clever thief can bump it up with might stacking and signet use.

Heartseeker the worst of all thief abilities in abuse, not only does it negate most forms of intelligent defense, the nature of it teleporting the thief onto it’s target compounded with it’s extremely high dmg(with traits this ability can do spammable 4-6k crits with might or signet use).

These four abilities used in conjunction with each other equal an insta-kill on just about any target regardless of toughness as pressing heartseeker a few more times allows you to down even the toughest bunker , especially when you consider that it does more dmg on low health player, and retaliation is it’s only worthwhile counter. It would be hard for me to believe this was an accidental oversight, when it would take allot of logical designing to make these abilities work so effectively with each other. Especially when a few traits placed in different spots would totally negate this builds effectiveness.

Worst of all it takes little to no skill/learning curve to run this build effectively and gain max glory per match. As a matter of fact almost all of the thieves running this build were easily getting #1 match after match including myself on the very first attempt. Which has given an extreme unfair glory rate gain for players with little to no pvp skill. A player can simply wait in shadow refuge or press one of the many stealth abilities to pick off hurt targets and gain 15 glory per kill.

While there are a few other thief builds that are effective, these take more than a moderate amount of skill to succeed at and are well balanced compared to other classes. And almost all imbalances in these builds will be addressed when stealth culling is fixed.

And this is the Proof of it’s effectiveness

Daays.4317:

labotimy.2439:

not to keep this war discussion going or anything, but if that were the case why were sorcs also considered OP when they lacked the majority of the utility you just named? oh yea the insanely high burst whether it was ST or aoe.

war is a perfect example of class balance gone wrong, same thing with rift and the pyromancer/sab/champion fiasco at release. certain classes were killing each other in seconds, and absolutely dominating the field of play. if you dont find this relevant to gw2 in regards to class balance, im not sure what would be.

His comparison to broken classes is not why people left those games. They left because of faulty game design. Not class balance.

Class balance means even less in GW2, when the barrier to entry is removed. Thieves OP? Roll a thief and play. Mesmers required? Learn a mesmer. That massive time investment of leveling/gearing up is gone for this game. Want to see who’s better? Play a mirror match.

The reason why people will/are leaving GW2 is two-fold:

One is because the current game mode of Conquest rewards extreme specs because of how you take control of points. You either need to be super tanky with control to survive long enough for backup to arrive. Or be super bursty so that you can quickly capture a point and neutralize defenders.

The second is because of competitive game design. Barrier to entry is gone, but that middle ground in which the majority of the player base floats does not exist. There is no way to practice to get better vs teams of equal skill level. You either queue as an organized team and stomp free tournies/PUGS or queue into paids and lose the first round to top teams. As such, people see they can’t advance and will just leave. You can only pubstomp so much until you’re bored.

Here’s my thief, first match I ran with him didn’t know half the buttons I used. Didn’t die once and managed to watch Laurie die during the second sadest Walking Dead episode since Sophia.

Lotta skill there you’ve convinced me there fine lol. I guess if your a terrible pvp player you would think it takes alot of skill to do this but I often watch TV while rolling people with my thief, never dying, and coming in #1.

Don’t fool yourself thieves are the Number 1 reason players are leaving I know because on all the pvp guilds thieves and mesmer’s were listed as the Number 1 reason they hate the game. No one wants to esport a game that takes zero skill in pvp.

labotimy.2439:

Daays.4317:

labotimy.2439:

i guess your knowledge of war shows when you started playing. if you started in beta you would know first of all that forts were unshakable for probably the first 2 years of the games life. second what city sieges? they didnt happen till half the population died and servers were consolidated and patches went through. in the beginning no one took forts, no one got to city, everyone was capped at invader gear, and yes people left because of BW’s.

I started playing when everyone else did. At launch. I left when everyone else did. 3 months later.

And you still think BW’s were broken cause of damage? They were broken because on top of the high aoe/st damage, they had a 50% heal debuff on the target & healer, damaged whoever healed them, had a 5 second disarm, and a silence. Their damage alone was fine if that’s all the class had. Add in all that other crap and it’s just flat out ridiculous.

Why are we even talking about WAR? Congrats. You’re a WAR mastermind knowitall. You win.

not to keep this war discussion going or anything, but if that were the case why were sorcs also considered OP when they lacked the majority of the utility you just named? oh yea the insanely high burst whether it was ST or aoe.

war is a perfect example of class balance gone wrong, same thing with rift and the pyromancer/sab/champion fiasco at release. certain classes were killing each other in seconds, and absolutely dominating the field of play. if you dont find this relevant to gw2 in regards to class balance, im not sure what would be.

Again Labotimy shows he is an exp’d seasoned pvper that understands the dynamics and flow that has eluded designers game after game, this was the exact problem in Rift.

No one played Rift for pve content unless it was to get better gear for pvp content. It like GW2 is a game whose playerbase consist’s of the homeless transit pvp community that has been let down by Dev’s title after title.

There are many hardcore pvp guilds(player’s prolly many both me and Labotimy know as friends in games and RL) that have all agreed upon the imbalances in the games stated just like they did in GW2.

Burst here is too high, forcing player’s to all roll bunker to escape. The fact that elementalists are playing MAGE TANKS is the perfect example just the idea of a mage tank is ludicrous. Even tho quite effective here it should never be a viable tactic for cloth classes. But now that it’s here the dev’s have no choice but to balance it when they should have given elementalist’s the dmg and escapes to compete with Glass cannon builds like every player wants out of a mage type.

@DAAYS

Agian great delsuional thief defender that shows zero logic and uses even less facts this stealth is worse than stealth in any other pvp game.

In any other MMO once you break stealth your vulnerable and have only 1 ability to restealth and other classes have ways to stop you from going stealth like mark and reveal type abilities. You cannot re-enter stealth over and over agian. An aoe’s always hit stealthers in every game, so that arguement that players can be hit by stealth in this game are null and void. You would also be thrown out of stealth if you had any form of dot on you. Damage broke stealth.

And in GW2 you can perma stealth as a thief lol where do you come up with this. With steal, CnD, blinding powder, Hide in Shadows and shadow Refuge you can stay invisible as long as you want, run around the entire map invisible if you want. You choose to fight when and where you want just like perma stealth in another game how many video’s do you want to see of players staying stealth indefinitely. One guy stayed stealthed for over an hour while picking of players in a raid.

Id rather perma-stealth anyday then allow a thief to re-enter stealth endless times during combat.

Project Shrine Maiden.9623:

I don’t want a glory boost. I don’t want noobs getting easy ranks. And I definitely don’t want to hit max rank any time soon. Max rank needs to be something attained through serious time and effort, not handed to you like most MMO’s are doing these days.

LOL you do know your talking about cosmetic armor right not arena gear in wow. No matter how cool your armor looks you can still die just as easily to a guy with rank 9 gear lmfao.

that’s why I suggested something that would give absolutely no advantage in pvp whatsoever and impact players none at all just alil nice way of saying we appreciate you being patient.

But hey if you’d rather look really cool on ghost town server’s where no one can see you anyways more power to ya. In 2 months let me know how that worked out for you.

P.S. I think it’s funny that everyone boo-ing this idea are all the same people saying pvp is fine and everything is going great, delusional much.

tOss.9024:

One of the main reasons no mmo will ever have the same success as WoW did, in my opinion, are posts like this. Communities are so impatient now, threatening to leave, exaggerating Issues. I’ve seen this trend for awhile now, we set up games for failure without giving them time to develop and succeed.
This ppatch isn’t make or break for me, because this has been one of the smoothest and well balanced(regarding PvP) for an mmo I know of.

Your so far from the mark, it’s obvious you haven’t been playing MMO’s very long.

Long ago there were two games that had a very large PvP Community they were called Everquest 1 and DAOC. When those games had gotten old and they went to release DAOC2 and Everquest 2 which both dropped the ball on PvP.

WoW released right at this time and had a slightly better pvp system and great pve that grabbed every player from other games. There success was more timing then anything else. But patch after patch pve was focused on while PvP was ignored.

This left a giant playerbase of homeless PvPer’s looking for the next game, they tried Darkfall, Warhammer, Rift, Swtor, Lineage 2, etc. All of which dropped the ball on PvP while promising fixes and concerns on pvp content that never came.

Now pvp player’s are smarter they can see through the jargon and rhetoric designers use to placate them, while doing nothing whatsoever to address the pvp flaws. So they leave when Dev’s ignore there issues and concerns that imbalance pvp, as they should.

Really warriors that’s where you went with that, I feel like I’m taking crazy pills and so they get higher glory rank and can now CRUSH other players with there deadly COSMETIC ARMOR!

tOss.9024:

Fellknight.4820:

Since you’ve admitted there are mulitple bugs and balance issues with PvP and since your obviously taking longer than a Tortoise on perks crossing the street to fix them.

Shouldn’t the players showing there loyalty by sticking around and continuing to show faith in repairs be compensated with say a 200% boost to glory gain until the issues are ironed out.

I don’t think they need to bribe their playerbase to stay. Its really not severely broken.
Do you have experience programming? Do you realize how hard it can be to find bugs in such a complex program?

Yes worked on many other games fixes were often implemented that day, not left for month’s on end. Are you aware that games have an alpha and a beta and the issues the game is facing were known and reported in both of those now were 3 months out from release. Are you aware there is a forum bug that erases edit/quote/post buttons on most threads, it was reported a month ago and could be fixed with two lines of html code. I could do it on a black sheet of paper without Dreamweaver.

You have a funny way of defining bribe. We are customers we paid them, any other company in the world gives you something when there service isn’t working as intended it’s called courtesy.

But the real problem is you don’t see it as severly broken lmfao well then where are all the players going how many websites of pro pvp guilds already state they left GW2.

savage.3469:

lol, i do not see the sense in this. I do however see your frustration

You don’t see why dev’s should give more then a “Im working on it” to players in a very broken system wow really?

Like giving a bonus to getting COSMETIC ARMOR would just be alil bit of a way of them saying sorry for the inconvenience.

You act like the armor actually does something

Lumines.3916:

Well..it kind of IS the design and nature of the classes. If a Warrior could escape just as well as a thief, that’d be weird..

That being said, a lot of it stems from the fact that hotjoin is just a massive zergfest. 8v8 is just two players shy double of a full tournament game. That many bodies in a map designed for 5v5 competitive matches was bound to end up messy. If all games were 5v5 to begin with, this wouldn’t be such a big deal. You wouldn’t have as a big of a degree of overwhelming odds with these numbers.

No it’s really not the nature of the classes, these classes in GW2 are not natural incarnation’s of the typical classes.

I can name an escape method for just about every class in any other MMO that allowed them to escape a few players that jumped them, except here only two.

Just look at WoW as an example

Ranger’s were fast and could outrun alot of other classes espeically in conjuction with leap back abilities. Don’ even compair that to l.Reflexes which jumps you back the shortest distance ever seen in a game.

Druid’s could run and shift to break snare’s making them REALLY hard to catch and kill.

Mage’s could blink run, and invis

Shaman’s could turn into a wolf and run away

etc

And unless your a mesmer or thief you’ll never escape a thief no matter what, they can run faster then you and can teleport right on top of you. Press heartseeker a few times on anyone trying to flee and escape thwarted.

Plague.5329:

He’s not talking about mobility, he’s talking about the ability to escape. They’re not the same thing. There’s a difference between being able to sprint across open ground and being wailed on by three guys, and trying to escape. He’s saying a Thief and Mesmer can get out of that situation pretty easily, whereas other classes are almost certainly locked into death. 100% certain? No, but it’s certainly very difficult, for some classes more than others, whereas a Thief and Mesmer obviously have a lot more options. It’s more of a 20% certainty of death for a Thief, compared to a 90% certainty of death for a Warrior.

Thank you plague that is exactly what I’m talking about!

How everyone else missed the mark by a million miles I have no idea, like a ranger hitting one evade ability will stave off the butchering of a few players on them. It’s like they don’t even read the post’s anymore just look for key-words like Mobility and Glass Cannon and respond to those.

LMFAO

Gotta love the players defending Elementalist and saying the class is great because they have a bunker spec.

Mage-Tanks? HAHAHAHA
The very concept is moronic, how the hell did a game in 3 months sell you on a idea that idiotic when no MMO in history would have been so stupid to even suggest…

MAGE TANKS!

Say it again and hear how stupid the two words sound together, if you don’t get it after repeating these two words 3 times, then there’s a crafting station on a pve server that desperately misses you.

Since you’ve admitted there are mulitple bugs and balance issues with PvP and since your obviously taking longer than a Tortoise on perks crossing the street to fix them.

Shouldn’t the players showing there loyalty by sticking around and continuing to show faith in repairs be compensated with say a 200% boost to glory gain until the issues are ironed out.

I don’t understand why everyone keeps saying thieves are Glass Cannon’s.

That term does not apply to stealthers in MMO’s never has, because stealth negates any penalties that come with being a glass cannon.

Glass Cannon’s are extremely high dpsers with low survivability, Stealther’s are a completely different catagory that has never been attributed to Glass Cannon.

An EQ Wizard is a Glass Cannon, A WoW mage is a Glass Cannon, anyone in GW2 specing no toughness or vitality and high dps is a Glass Cannon EXCEPT Thieves and Mesmers they are stealthers.

You cannot be a Glass Cannon and escape from 5 attackers with one press of a button that is not a Glass Cannon because you suffer none of the penalties that a Glass Cannon class faces.

The game currently feels as if they want you to die over and over again. I’ve never been a fan of riskless pvp, that is pvp where death makes you lose nothing. It turns pvp into a mindless grind instead of a test of skills.

Currently with this system there is no way for any class besides Thief and Mesmer to avoid dieing when 2-4 players converge on his face. Swiftness is currently +33% speed cripple is -50% speed and the game has given no other classes a way to escape whatsoever.

Now they have ground drop effects but in my opinion ground drop effects have always been worthless as a port escape tactic. Espeically in this game where the camera angle is terrible and small, and the radius of the ground drops are tiny.

Why are there no short duration long cooldown sprint abilities for some classes, why are there no blink type abilities that randomly displace a character.

Giving Necro’s flesh wurm teleport is also a joke of escape because you cannot prepare for an attack, thats like preparing for a car accident, you cannot predict when it will happen.

On my Thief or Mesmer I often go match after match without a single death, while my other characters are forced to die over and over agian without any viable way to escape attackers. And my thief and mesmer suffer nothing to get such an awesome ability.

This is literally the only MMO I’ve ever played that showed so much favoritism to 2 classes while leaving the rest out in the cold.

Below is a screenshot of my Thief coming in No.1 without even a single death during that match, only my Mesmer can also make that claim.

Aga.8641:

felivear.1536:

Maybe it is a mostly PvE content update again

Ahh, if it isn’t captain obvious.

Every single patch will lean very heavily towards PvE, because 95% of the population enjoy PvE more then PvP….Anet’s overall care about PvP is very low.

I can’t believe dev’s would be this stupid lol then agian looking at balance the way it is maybe they are.

WoW has corned the market on PVE, trying to compete with WoW for pve is like LG coming out with the next iphone just not happening. They have a playerbase that could fill a small nation, and let’s face it there PVE is better, there storyline is better, the class synergy is better, there raid system is better etc etc.

The only reason games like this exist is because WoW pvp has been terrible since day one(well then agian GW2 actually makes WoW pvp look awesome).

This game has one shot at success cater to the PvP community that has been left homeless for the past 10 years as games have dropped the ball on PvP content. If there focused on PVE start looking at another game because the dev’s are delusional.

Toughness isn’t efficient not at all, it’s stacking protection with ret that makes it efficient even with 3k armor a thief can still make you disappear in 4 seconds.

It’s a BUG guys Bladetrail does the exact same thing everthing that bounces between targets is multipling the dmg.

Dev’s are aware of it and will be fixing it next patch they have already stated this.

Daays.4317:

Fellknight.4820:

There’s no argueing with you I’ve seen your type in every game, you’ll ruthlessly defend what it is obviously an extreme balance problem in pvp.

It’s pve players like yourself that join into quick easy pvp systems, find an op spec and then try to say that the easy mindless button mashing tactics take skill and are needed for that class to be around.

It’s that type of thinking that is an albatross on modern pvp and contributes greatly to the death of many games.

Player’s said bright wizards in Warhammer were fine, Dev’s let the issue go far too long due to player misinformation game died.

Player’s in Rift said Pyromancer one shotting was fine game died.

Player’s in Swtor said Bounty hunter uber healing, insane dmg burst and tank armor was fine, game died.

I could go on all day with this, But right now the game’s pvp community is dwindling and your saying everything is ok, it’s not ok bro, you’d really rather keep your class OP even when there will be no one left to play with, all the hardcore pvp guilds are already gone.

And alot of classes burst is not ok it’s too high, fights are too short and only a mesmer and theif would say it’s fine because there the only two classes that can escape this zergfest setup.

You few players saying it’s ok are handing the dev’s nails to but the coffin lid on this game and if yea don’t basically shut up and tell the truth, this game won’t last till christmas.

What are you even babbling about?

You respond “lol thief burst insane check this spvp pic”? And now you’re talking about players in RIFT and SWTOR and WAR? Then finish with the end of the world speech?

I addressed your post, your thoughts, and outlined that while you may have good intentions, the game will turn into mass bunker spec’s with control abilities, because that’s how you gain points in conquest. Of course there’s no arguing with me. You’re not even arguing the point I’m making. That by nerfing burst, you shift the game to purely about control. Classes without control will be benched for classes with them.

Why are you even responding again? Can you please get the slightest bit of reading comprehension and stay on your own topic.

Your not telling the truth, your saying burst is fine and looking for ways to angle the conversation because you play a theif anyone who checks your one of the worst offenders of the “learn to play” mentality on this forum.

Every single one of your posts is telling players learn to play and theives are fine. No matter how you disguise it with clever rhetoric.

How can I debate someone who will ignore the fact’s.

Answer me this one question do you believe taking 75% of someone’s life in under 1.5 seconds or with a single strike is ok?

Daays.4317:

Fellknight.4820:

Cmon man that doesn’t even make any sense, why did nerfing 12k backstabs suddenly become dropping dmg to the floor.

The only reason everyone is running bunker/tank build’s is because the dmg is set to insanity. Most players don’t want to be tanks they just don’t have any other options who wants to die 75 times a match.

Theif is the only class viable as a glass cannon because with invis they don’t die like every other class. So we basically have a billion tanks and theives, two roles in game, it’s a death sentence to this game.

Here’s a pic of my first run with a theif, didn’t know what half the buttons are and my pts are five lower then the highest in the match from a guy with 10 glory ranks on me.
I didn’t die once, not a single time the entire match. I don’t think anyone should pick up a class and perform like that it’s silly, and it proves how skill-less it is

I multi-class all classes. Just play a thief because the people who I play with have other spots filled.

You honestly believe thief is the only viable glass cannon? That those teams running GS warriors aren’t glass? That shatter mesmers aren’t glass? Do you honestly not see those classes in tPvP? Maybe not warrior as much, but 9/10 mesmers I run into are shatter spec. All of those are viable. It’s why I listed them in my example or nerfing all burst damage classes into the ground.

Are you honestly complaining about stealth? You’re not immune to damage. Going stealth doesn’t break roots. It doesn’t stop the AoE damage being thrown on top you of. You can easily track stealthed players with auto attacks. The majority of the time you stealth you’re required to dodge roll or the good players will easily follow you for those 3 seconds.

Your initial post wasn’t about thieves. It was about burst classes. Unless you only think thief is the only burst class (tbh I feel you do). You say tune down burst, then tune down protection, yet you fail to realize that the only benefit to protection is against burst. So if burst is tuned down, then you don’t need protection to survive. That Weakness will be the best form of mitigation. Hence my entire post.

I don’t even know why you’re responding. It’s like you completely did a 180 on your initial failed changes and have all of a sudden started crying about thieves as if they’re the only burst class in the game.

Was simply informing you that by nerfing burst into the ground, people will swap to control specs. Which just happen to be bunker specs. And classes without control effects, thieves and rangers, will be completely useless.

And you even failed to address the whole point of downed state. You know, the direct counter to being bursted. A thief can’t finish someone alone. And a thief can’t win 1v1’s in a down-state fight because their 3 ability isn’t a heal nor a DPS move.

There’s no argueing with you I’ve seen your type in every game, you’ll ruthlessly defend what it is obviously an extreme balance problem in pvp.

It’s pve players like yourself that join into quick easy pvp systems, find an op spec and then try to say that the easy mindless button mashing tactics take skill and are needed for that class to be around. I say burst and class for a nerf, but there’s only one class you care about your theif so let’s not BS and pretend you care about any other classes burst getting nerfed. My main is a warrior I’m calling for a huge burst reduction on them as well because there burst is too high as well. But no your gonna say no burst should be adjusted because you know it would balance out theives alot. Just be honest bro don’t be a politician.

It’s that type of thinking that is an albatross on modern pvp and contributes greatly to the death of many games.

Player’s said bright wizards in Warhammer were fine, Dev’s let the issue go far too long due to player misinformation game died.

Player’s in Rift said Pyromancer one shotting was fine game died.

Player’s in Swtor said Bounty hunter uber healing, insane dmg burst and tank armor was fine, game died.

I could go on all day with this, But right now the game’s pvp community is dwindling and your saying everything is ok, it’s not ok bro, you’d really rather keep your class OP even when there will be no one left to play with, all the hardcore pvp guilds are already gone.

And alot of classes burst is not ok it’s too high, fights are too short and only a mesmer and theif would say it’s fine because there the only two classes that can escape this zergfest setup.

You few players saying it’s ok are handing the dev’s nails to put the coffin lid on this game.

Daays.4317:

Fellknight.4820:

Players would no longer be forced into FULL DPS or FULL BUNKER as a player with lower armor or lil to no protection/ret stacking could use his kiting/CC/heal/condition removal abilities to live longer. If anything I think it would greatly add to middle builds that are all but extinct nowadays for most role/classes.

No, people would still play full bunker.

Let’s say your suggestions come true. Thieves backstab like a wet noddle. 100B hits less than auto attacks. Mindwrack is more like a mind massage.

Your nerf to protection did nothing, as it’s no longer needed. Right now, the only reason to have protection is because of the high burst damage in this game. Weakness will be far more effective at reducing incoming damage.

You now have people who don’t die in seconds, they actually don’t die at all. Low on HP? Rotate with someone on point (already done in most cases) until your heal comes back up.

The game will become about one thing and one thing only. Control. This is how all MMORPGS work. When you cannot cross a threshold to global someone, control effects become the strongest abilities in the game.

Which means guardians, eles, engies, and necros will all become a requirement because of control effects and stability. Mesmers will still be required because of portal and boon removal.
Warriors will be decent because of hammer/mace control.
And Thieves and Rangers will be useless as they offer no control effects or stability.

You’ve changed the game into an even more boring version in which you have high hp, low DPS players knocking each other around the map trying desperately to control a point.

But everyone ignores one major thing. The downed system in this game was added to directly counter burst damage. So that if you get dropped instantly, you can still help your team, and your team has a chance to res you mid fight.

I fear the worst when they nerf all burst specs into the ground.

Cmon man that doesn’t even make any sense, why did nerfing 12k backstabs suddenly become dropping dmg to the floor.

I know you play a theif it’s easy to tell when you rush to every theif thread to defend the class which makes logical debate nearly impossible because you need to value logic to use it.

The only reason everyone is running bunker/tank build’s is because the dmg is set to insanity. Most players don’t want to be tanks they just don’t have any other options who wants to die 75 times a match.

Theif is the only class viable as a glass cannon because with invis they don’t die like every other class. So we basically have a billion tanks and theives, two roles in game, it’s a death sentence to this game.

Here’s a pic of my first run with a theif, didn’t know what half the buttons are and my pts are five lower then the highest in the match from a guy with 10 glory ranks on me.
I didn’t die once, not a single time the entire match. I don’t think anyone should pick up a class and perform like that it’s silly, and it proves how skill-less it is

ilJumperMT.4871:

Fellknight.4820:

Evilek.5690:

kagemitsu.3657:

I’m a Guardian with 3.2k toughness and 18k health.

Feels balanced, man.

What do you think? I have a big armor, I’m immortal !!! ????

2.3k Backstab DMG so hard !!!

I have 2.4k armor this is the result after signet was nerfed lemme guess i should have used my stunbreaker lmfao even tho he didn’t stun me. So much skill used here when 3 of the 5 buttons he clicked teleport him right to me.

That’s 24k of dmg in about 4 secs to a target with 2.4k armor lol and lemme guess that’s balanced right?

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9861/gw025c.jpg

It’s being nerfed so stop trying to defend thieves with something that was broken and is gonna be fixed and has already stated by devs is a bug.

The difference between bladetrail bug and thieves burst is that the minute dev’s saw one screenshot of bladetrail bug they stated it was a bug and will be fixed next patch that was like 6 days ago, how long have thieves been op.

ilJumperMT.4871:

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9861/gw025c.jpg

Warrior takes the crown. 8k Backstab? Try AoE that hits up to 20k+ on Single Target (Notice how before hitting the player, the pet got hit for 10k each too)

Bladetrail requires a cluster of players to get that effect and it’s being nerfed and should be nerfed.

What your really saying is thieves are fine because bladetrail bug is in the game, yea I know what your doing.

A thief can do this all the time to high armor classes

@Aydenunited your telling people that you can give tips and pointers to beat thieves lmfao.

So a player should use endless specing, learn everything about the theif class, time there abilties flawlessly to beat a guy who can pick up the class day one and mash 5 buttons for 24k dmg in 4 secs to players with over 2.2k armor. And your saying that’s balanced it’s absolutely crazy.

That’s like me saying if i give one guy lead shoes and another guy flippers, the guy with lead shoes could beat him in a swim meet if he paddles hard enough. Why should one class win with lil to no skill and you expect the other guy to be in the top 1% of MMO pvper’s to beat him.

@Illjumper

Your WRONG it’s not just bladetrail it’s anything that bounces it’s a bug theives can do it with dancing dagger too and it’s been noted by devs and is being fixed next patch.

^ Yes 80% of the game is theives but there fine everyone should just play bunkers and it will all be ok.

But what if everyone who didn’t pick thief doesn’t want to play a tank or die in 3.5 secs. Name me one other MMO where only tanks can survive and 1v1 thieves, I don’t know any, and this one won’t be around much longer for you to lie about.

Anastaziel.4968:

I would say that when you get out of stealth your skills are disabled for 3 seconds.

I would like to see all the profession specific bugs to be gone next patch.

Thief to deal 25% less damage with their next skill if it has been less than 1 second before using a new skill.

When you hit a mesmer clone/illusion you should deal some damage to the original.

This just happened to my warrior with 2.4k armor and 21k health so idk if 25% would cut it

^ Dude you play a thief you flock to every thief thread telling players to learn to play, dodge or that thieves are meant to kill people in 3.5 seconds.

Evilek.5690:

kagemitsu.3657:

I’m a Guardian with 3.2k toughness and 18k health.

Feels balanced, man.

What do you think? I have a big armor, I’m immortal !!! ????

2.3k Backstab DMG so hard !!!

I have 2.4k armor this is the result after signet was nerfed lemme guess i should have used my stunbreaker lmfao even tho he didn’t stun me. So much skill used here when 3 of the 5 buttons he clicked teleport him right to me.

That’s 24k of dmg in about 4 secs to a target with 2.4k armor lol and lemme guess that’s balanced right?

Video’s mean nothing, screenshot’s mean nothing, 99% of the pvp forums calling for a nerf on the class means nothing.

Thieves saying learn to play however is factual proof the class is fine.

Mogar.9216:

It seems to me as the way the maps are it is next to impossible to play a ranged character and be effective. Pretty much everyone play melee bunker except for thieves. I see a few rangers try to snipe ppl from top of ledges, but really there are so many ways to get out of los I don’t see how that can work well.

There are only bunker’s and thieves, going anything but bunker to the max means dying in under 3 seconds to thieves.

Anet wants there game to have two roles dps thief and tank nothing else and they seem either too stupid or too blind to do anything about it but they have a new event coming up while pvp and pve in this game are garbage.

Thats like building a deck on burning a house

ZombiesTT.3619:

So basically op is saying that he always wins 1v1 with his warrior but this thief killed him with a well executed combo and that signals a cry for nerf?

Nope we should all just play thieves or bunkers because there perfectly balanced and it’s totally ok to hit for 12k one button and 6k the next, your right I’m just terrible theives are fine.

And yea I’ve been pvping for 15 years won tournement’s, helped design teams balance pvp so if I’m getting killed before I can do anything by an invisble man i can neither see or target i know your not gonna do any better on anything other than a full bunker.

If everyone is forced to balance around a single class I’d say that class is broken.

R E F L H E X.8413:

Fellknight.4820:

hahahahahaha your serious too omg, if your so good at pvp give me screenshots of you coming in number 1 time and time again, I’ve got them, do you?

You do realize you can come in number one without using traits/armor/runes, and your first time playing any class just mashing buttons don’t you? It doesn’t really say much.

I really shouldn’t have even wasted my time uploading as I don’t have anything to prove from playing mesmer in guildwars 1 and doing things that will not be repeated.

http://s12.postimage.org/ap0dcmvoc/gw086.jpg

Since you probably won’t catch it I was naked.

I think it’s cute that you play thief and mesmer and claim to be an awesome pvper lol i think posting a screenshot of a mesmer coming in No.1 is better proof of you being bad than you posting nothing at all. And yes that was prolly the only time you came in No. 1 in a match and if they changed the system redid & rearranged it I’d still come in number 1 because that’s what pvper’s do we win. I just don’t want to play a game that let’s pver’s feel like good pvper’s by clicking 4 buttons.

R E F L H E X.8413:

Their removal of the 50% damage increase I believe it was on the assassins signet takes off nearly 6k of the extra damage the single skill would have done. This is a pretty easy combo to counter as it is very obvious when its going to happen, protections/invulnerability skills are what you want to use here.

Killing fast is what a thief should be doing if we look at assassins but looking at how fast other classes kills you kinda have to redefine what killing fast means in this game and that’s just my opinion. Plus if the game were balanced around teamplay and you are getting 1v1 gibbed by a thief and you don’t have allies using heals/prots on you that’s another part of the problem, aside from your own lack of blocks/prots/invulns.

This is post signet nerf not pre, players like you who defend this should never be in pvp. A good pvper knows this is bad doesn’t need this to 1v1, I sure don’t on any of my characters and I win almost every 1v1.

So why are you sooooo bad at pvp that you need this kind of an edge to win vs anyone? You should go back to wow pve server’s your not a pvper.

Please stay off pvp forums you should stick to crafting forums or pve content forums players like you just want to ruin the game until no one plays lol luckily with this one the dev’s didn’t need your help ruining it.

This happened in less then 4 seconds, never saw the guy and no I’m not a glass canon not by far I have 2400 armor and 21k life. I come in Number 1, 95% of the matches so I’m well aware of how to pvp in this game.

I’m done playing this game there is no excuse for having this in a game ever and waiting this long to have any sort of fix is just insane. There is a difference between trying to balance a game correctly and blantantly ignoring class balances that destroy’s pvp content. Your game is simply not fun and you reward players with lil to no skill with such broken mechanics.

You won’t fool me again with the slow and steady tagline it’s been months if you cant see this is broken your incompetent. I’ll avoid any game you design in the future like a plague.

besbin.6302:

Why should he be capable of ‘handling abuse’? There is no excuse for it whatsoever. So after receiving a childish abusive tirade from a stroppy teenager he should have just apologised for disturbing them and left? Great way to encourage anti social behaviour don’t you think? If they had explained the situation to the OP politely I am sure he would have been more than happy to accomodate them.

I once joined a server with 8 players as I dislike the zerg fest of 8 v 8. I received a similar welcome and stayed until the end of the game. If this pro guild had explained what they were doing politely, of course I would have left immediately.

Yes, there should be a duel feature. It is not the fault of the duellers that they are forced to take a server to try out new builds etc. However, it is certainly not the fault of the OP that he hit the ‘play now’ button, which is supposed to be the feature you use to be matched with players of similar rank, and he was landed with these a holes.

In my day the term abuse wasn’t just thrown around because someone was being a meanie.

Being alil rude and abusing someone is worlds apart let’s try to keep the drama lvl at sane.

@Relentliss sorry but the quote button is touchy on these forums and appears to have disappeared on me again.

Currently toughness just doesn’t scale with the burst in this game, now when you mix it with protection and retaliation for some classes it becomes too powerful. If burst was toned down, you’d have to lower protection/ret as players would literally become impossible to kill. It be like giving a resto druid paladin armor lol just don’t work(hate to quote wow but it’s something most people know).

Condition’s have an advantage over burst in the fact that they bypass armor, but with the burst so high it doesn’t give much of an advantage to go the slow and steady route to pvp when other classes can kill in seconds.

Middles builds that are currently overshadowed by extreme builds would become if anything more powerful.

Players would no longer be forced into FULL DPS or FULL BUNKER as a player with lower armor or lil to no protection/ret stacking could use his kiting/CC/heal/condition removal abilities to live longer. If anything I think it would greatly add to middle builds that are all but extinct nowadays for most role/classes.

^ This is exactly the kind of fine tuning the game needs to promote a higher lvl of skilled play. Retaliation and protection stacking both need to be tweaked.

Zsymon.8457:

There is no profession that can chain CC Fellknight, a hammer warrior can chain maybe 5 seconds effectively, but only once every 40 seconds at most, and they don’t do a lot of damage in that time since the hammer has no high damage skills, only debuffs.

I was talking about multiple attackers not just a single opponent. D.returns would effect the target or victim so that once a stun/fear/daze landed the next stun to land would have shorter duration and if another Cc effect landed in that time the player would be granted limited immunity. CC is meant to jam or interrupt abilities, not lock down a player so that he dies without a chance to react.

^ After these changes were implemented, diminishing returns should prolly be added to stop players from getting stuck in chain CC.

If haste was removed and burst toned down condition specs would have more time to set up for the dmg they need players would also have time to notice what conditions or effects their suffering from.

Classes which dont have the raw comdition spec dmg that say a necro has would be.more viable using their defensive abilities in conjunction with utility making effective new roles.

I think alot of skeptical players would be amazed how these changes would effect the game for the better.

Alot of great suggestions espeically for tpvp. But I really do believe that if burst was toned down and protection stacking tweaked to compensate, you would see a new dynamic added to tpvp as well as spvp.

I think alot of class/roles that have been discarded would suddenly become viable to group synergy in a way we haven’t yet seen.

Classes with less raw survivability but more CC or counter-type abilities would succeed in a group funtion.

We’d see new support roles
New tank/bunker roles
New DPS roles

And basically fill those niches were missing in group-scale combat.

Hopefully down the road smaller scale Arena or Tournement play for 2v2 or 3v3 that would add even more diverse groups with different class/roles to allow players more variety and distinctiveness.

Allowing player’s to find a group/competitive play that suits their personal playstyle best.