Guild Wars 2

Brutalistik.6473:

Fellknight.4820:

daydream.2938:

A thing to consider is law of unintended consequences. Everyone seems to know what would balance PVP, yet if those changes where made as the public dictates it would likely make things worse.

Who says we have to consider every suggestions there are 4 suggestions on the forums that have come up more than any other;

1. Nerf or Remove Haste
2. Nerf Thief
3. Nerf Mesmer
4. Tone down bunkers

These have been the 4 issues ignored most by any designer. So yes I honestly believe that the players would do better in balancing based on vote than the designers currently are ABSOLUTELY without a doubt.

Because these are the 4 things that would make the game more enjoyable for everyone and not just 3 classes.

I don’t wish for haste to be removed because it’s useful in pve except warriors frenzy skill penalty. However they can remove it from being used in pvp and that I will accept. This means they’ll have to rework certain traits that gives haste benefits and pvp runes.

So dont nerf it in pve problem solved

daydream.2938:

A thing to consider is law of unintended consequences. Everyone seems to know what would balance PVP, yet if those changes where made as the public dictates it would likely make things worse.

Who says we have to consider every suggestions there are 4 suggestions on the forums that have come up more than any other;

1. Nerf or Remove Haste
2. Nerf Thief
3. Nerf Mesmer
4. Tone down bunkers

These have been the 4 issues ignored most by any designer. So yes I honestly believe that the players would do better in balancing based on vote than the designers currently are ABSOLUTELY without a doubt.

Because these are the 4 things that would make the game more enjoyable for everyone and not just 3 classes.

Thief death macro kills all no matter how your built what you are etc etc and they find a terribad engineer build that has damage and nerf it lmfao.

Yea I’m sure it’s so much worse than stealth stacking 17 stacks of might with signet and shadow assassin and delivering over 21k dmg in under 1.5 secs by an invisble foe is totally acceptable. And all everyone says on the forums is learn to dodge lol to explain why this is fair.

Bascially one of anet designers thieves or mesmers got killed by an engineer once and they ran to the nerf bat and posted on fake player accounts(which they do ALL THE TIME) to explain why it made sense. Sorry not fooled guys, learn to pvp and balance the game.

Brutalistik.6473:

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

harsh dude. But frustration does that.
for whatever reason class balancing is hard to do for these games.
Likely cause there is one or two folks doing it as a side project for all the other more important things… like wintersday and… that kinda of stuff.

Things will get better. the classes now are pretty well balanced in the overall scheme but there are certainly some that are much easier to play.

Another part that does adds on the frustration is when players start trolling, bashing. stalking and mocking saying my ele. thief. guardian or mesmer is the best etc. Yeah that’s enough to either block the player or take a break from the game.

Is it bashing if it’s true or just an honest representation of the facts. I can’t join you in fairytale land where rangers are as good as guardians or thieves so I ask you to join me in reailty where the rest of us live and math still works on fact and not opinion. Or do you honestly believe there is team that would take an even skilled engineer/ranger over a guardian or mesmer?

Turbo Whale.1738:

Mesmer
Shatter skills now share a global 0.25 second recharge, to prevent multiple shatter effects triggering on the same illusion.
Shattered Strength: This trait now grants 1 stack of might per illusion shattered.

That mesmer buff was nerfed immediately after it was implemented. Now, it reflects how good a 25 trait minor should be.

---

Were all forced to wonder if you guys are a bunch of clueless idiots. Shouldn’t nerf’s and buffs be based on a priority list of who happens to be the weakest/least reprensented/role or class in tournemant play?

They have said time and time again they will take making changes very slowly to allow the game to develop. Remember 3 months ago Eles were crying because of some stupid reason they made up and now, with only a few small buffs later and mostly small nerfs, D/D cantrip ele is one of the best builds in the game.

Also, please speak for yourself.

So buffing a class that already has a 98% represention in tpvp and then nerfing it 2 days later is a show of competance?

While there are classes in the game with less than a 5% represention in tpvp and they suffer nerfs and or just get blatantly ignored. Yet I should have complete faith in a design team that buffs the best in the game? Even if just for a moment

daydream.2938:

Its useful if you run with someone with CC.
And. You can play a necro and live, or hell play a warrior burst and live, so long as your teams the one winning the fights.

=) Hman would disagree with you about the 100 b warrior.

Burst warriors do not live there is nothing a burst warrior could do that a thief couldn’t do better. Why would any player say hey I’m gonna play a guy who sucks at this role and has zero way to survive focus fire when my burst gimmick move fails. One stun breaker fails a warriors best burst I know I played a warrior you can build bunker and you suck worse than any guardian or build burst and you suck worse than any thief.

If you removed haste you’d destroy 90% of a warriors dps and correct 99% of the problems we see in pvp. Gotta question any designers who build an entire class based on one button click.

IDC what you like it’s a thief spam haeartseeker and watch your score go thru the roof

When the last patch came out and you buffed the strongest class/spec in the game(shatter spec mesmer), and in the newest patch you nerf the weakest least played class in the game(engineer).

Were all forced to wonder if you guys are a bunch of clueless idiots. Shouldn’t nerf’s and buffs be based on a priority list of who happens to be the weakest/least reprensented/role or class in tournemant play?

I gotta wonder if you guys are even playing the same game we are, you really said to yourselves omg these kitten engineer’s keep ruining matches.

Because at this point it’s becoming more and more obvious that your just playing favorites and don’t care about balancing at all.

Kabooky.8071:

mifbifgiggle.6713:

Are we seriously going to say that engis are weak in 1v1s now? I win, literally, statistically, 95%+ of the 1v1s I do. .

I have a lvl 80 eng my first true love but meh, on my mesmer as an eng your just free badges. Im on Sea of Sorrows and would gladly hand you a lesson in the short falls of eng. To be fair I did get killed in a 1v1 by a cond eng a month or two ago. I love engies and in larger scale skirmishs if I ignore (some) of them then I am hitting the release button. Other than that.. your shield.. your tool kit shield.. your invis when your still standing right there.. its just stuff till you die anyway.

I don’t rock shield because I Iose too much dmg without blowtorch, don’t need it to survive at all.

If a mesmer is built shatter spec they can’t survive long enough to down me, if there condition spec I have too much removal.

The key to making your engineer survive is Protection it’s the one thing engineers lack but you can make up for it with skill traits, runes, and Elixir C.

Rhinzual.7861:

aydenunited.5729:

Terrahero.9358:

mifbifgiggle.6713:

probably 1v1s. get the right build and you simply won’t lose.

Funny, thats what some Eles say. And Necro’s. And Mesmers. And Guardians. And Thieves. And Rangers. And Warriors.

We cant all not lose. And with the distinct lack of proper damage, weaker support, lack of Stability, i dont think its the Engineer.
A necro would tear you a few new ones without a doubt. Making your damage even worst, and denying you all your boons.

We have just as much “do not die” ability than any other profession. 2 second reflect + 3 second block + 3 second block +3 second invulnerable + 3 second invulnerable at 25% life + utility heal off of CD at 25% life + 4-6 dodges in a row if spec’d the right way, Elixir R to rez yourself even if you don’t make it through the first two minutes of fighting.

Now say, vs. 1v2 and 1v3, other professions do better at us weathering several attackers, but 1v1, we’re in the same boat as anyone else.

As a scepter+dagger Necro specializing in conditions, I could just wait for your blocks to end, my attacks have zero projectiles to reflect, and I’ll just slap you with Blood is Power on top of my other bleeds and oh what’s that? You slapped a bunch of conditions on me and I’m losing health? One sec while I pop my 20 second CD heal and get rid of all those conditions that will fuel the strength of such an awesome heal. Boons on you? I’ll hold off on Consume Conditions and slap you with Corrupt Boon and then use my heal to get rid of all my self-inflicted conditions on top of whatever you gave me.

Your invulnerability skills? I can wait them out. Oh I see you got me nice and low on hp, but you’re bleeding out like a protagonist in Gantz, Death Shroud for long invulnerability, a quick fear, a strong life-steal that auto-hits, a half-decent auto-attack nuke and an entirely separate lifebar for you to chew through.

Whatever you can do, I can do better, sad but true.

I’m sure against most builds, while Necro’s are definitely one of my tougher fights one even lasted a full 2 mins in a 1v1 but it ended with me stomping him.

Without med kit and full 30 pts into Alchemy it’s impossible but with Antidote every 15 secs removing conditions. 3x 1500 heals every 12 secs and 6 k heal every 20 secs, plus elixir C which turns all conditions on me to boons every 32 secs it’s really hard to even dent me.

Not to mention that if you get me down to 25% life I become immune to all conditions and all my heals go off CD lol and I still have some pretty descent condition dmg to boot.

Pretty much the reason why I’ve never been beaten by a necro.

Oracle Fefe.5078:

This has gone on for far too long.
SAt, you’ve bought up good points on your post. Yes, people should learn to cope with imbalances or cheapness. I personally believe no one gets anywhere by complaining and if they want to become better they have to go with the flow of the game (Despite it being against them) and figure out ways to defeat a particular class through strange means (I enjoy most of Defektive’s builds for such a case of originality.). People should “fail better” in a sense and in my opinion.
However, the way you presented your point is flame-war worthy and shows absolutely no modesty or humbleness. It was that fact which caused many people to not only disagree, but call you out on your other posts. L2P is not mean in your regards, but in actuality you’re beckoning people to reply back because you’re belittling them. You constantly show no modesty and an extreme prideful arrogance by continuing to tell people to go to you as if you’re the messiah that will lead people out of some dark age, or even someone sneak-advertising to get “popular” with the masses for some sort of likes or subscribers or +1s.

Fourth is right. The only info you’ve actually shared that actually concerns game strategy is to keep distance from a melee class (As if new players didn’t already know that..) and time enemies CDs.
Alongside that, you’ve constantly been snarky or downright elitist to people who have disagreed with you right from the getgo. One of your posts states that you’re fine with people disagreeing with you but then later on say “some ppl have to QQ instead of L2P.”

If you truly want your word to go out to the populace and change up mindsets, you have to show at least a form of respect in your posts. L2P and QQ terms are usually, if not always, disrespectful. You can tell a person to learn about something, but the terms you are using can really beckon a person to just come and argue with you especially if they do not know you. Make videos also even as they better show who you are as a player rather than simple talking and pics.
In the AC3 community there are two guys who aren’t quite the humblest of people, but they make videos and good points and they are well known and usually respected. They know when certain words could be taking it too far past the line between “acceptable” and “elitist”.

Tl;dr: Yes, I’m attacking you and your post structure. I’d suggest to stop using derogatory terms to “help” people. If you really want to help, be tolerant, respond to things they say with a calm tone, offer to “pm” only once, in bold, in your starting post instead of telling random people that if they arent good pm you. If you really really want to help, start a playlist of tutorials, howtos, or general info on a video site or a guide/infographic on a forum. Trust me, you’ll be doing more good with that for both the game and you as a player.

I think your a bigger idiot than the poster, common sense alludes you.

A skilled pvper doesnt need to tell anyone how good they are, they know it balls to bones.

A great pvper doesn’t pick the most OP classes in a game, pretend to be ignorant as to why those classes are OP and then tell everyone else to L2P.

NO they pick classes that are considered Underpowered and perform better than anyone else could with that class. If they choose to pick an OP class for whatever reason they don’t deny the fact that they are OP. A great pvper always knows when they picked something OP because it is so much easier than what it usually takes to gain victory.

It is the same reason why people who are born rich swear they earned it, because no one wants to believe they just got lucky, or the deck was stacked in thier favor.

This post is simply an indepth look into the mind of a moron.

Because 1 guy is good at a warrior the class is balanced lmfao no that warrior is simply a better player than you.

You don’t balance things from the top you idiot you balance them from the middle the average, percentages, do you even understand that?

A great pvper will make copper into gold, sadly when given a OP class they’ll turn a mortal into a god.

There’s never been an MMO that one guy didn’t turn a bad class into something that looked good. But when that class has higher than a 20% represention in the top tiered players, common sense would dicate it isn’t that all the players that roled that class all happened to be the best pvper’s but the class itself is OP.

aydenunited.5729:

People also tend to forget that you can claim a node in conquest without having to kill the bunker, will well timed pulls or knockbacks. The problem in this respect is how long stability applies to a guardian compared to other professions. Engineers would have a much bigger place in the current meta if the duration or CD of “Stand Your Ground” was looked at closer.

Don’t get me wrong, if you give me 30 seconds or so, I can take the point from the Guardian, but you don’t have that long in tPvP before their team arrives.

I guess what I’m saying is, bunkers are only a problem because of Guardians, and Guardians are only a problem because of stability, to me. But this is also from an Engineer’s perspective, and there isn’t very many of those flying around right now so it might not carry much weight. But if you reduced duration and CD of stability on Guardian bunkers, all that defense wouldn’t mean as much in conquest when they can’t stand on the node long enough to keep it with all that defense.

BTW folks this character is really Jonathan sharp in disguise thats why his tagline says this class, that class and 95% of his posts are defending thieves.

It’s also why all flagrant TOS abuses go ignored meanwhile anyone who disagree’s with him gets banned.

But when the next patch nerfs stability on guardians and ignores the kitten amount of thief OP, tell me I’m wrong.

Notice this post said burst or bunker and it only addressed the most annoying class for a thief to kill lol.

Superkav.5012:

I am wondering what the community feels about the current status of burst and bunker builds. Should either one or both be reduced or kept as is?

Some thoughts:

- Will it make balanced/support builds more rewarding and give more build flexibility ?
- Will it reduce “instagib” builds and make battles more dynamic?
- Will it reduce near unkillable builds?

- Will it affect the current meta negatively?
- Will it impact balance negatively from a tpvp perspective?
- Could reduction in burst could result in a lower standard for bunker builds?
- Will it result in unnecessary prolonged fights?

What do you think?

Your problem is logic, you don’t understand cause and effect.

If they nerfed the insane burst one class can deal out insta killing just about everyone in the game, you would watch 95% of the bunker builds disappear in the blink of an eye.

The truth is a bunker isn’t built that way to survive 3-4 players lol no they could easily do that without specing so deep into defensive traits. They build that way to survive 1 thief+ whatever else remove the thief you remove the need for what seems like unkillable bunkers to everyone else but thief.

Darnis.4056:

Bro.. bro, They made it so easy to get Full paid gear I don’t even know what you’re crying for.. You want Inquest/Orrian/etc? Do the Pvp daily/monthly that’s 41 tickets for pvping for literally 2 hours a day, or 8 chest runs per month, pick out the gear you want do your 8 chest runs Salvage it up, get some sliver together and you too can look like a pimp like all the other chestrunners.

Easy? lol your idea of the longest grind ever in MMO history is easy?

Or tpvp where you have to coordinate 4 other RL people to join you at a time you and they aren’t at work, with a family, etc etc.

If your idea of easy is consuming 70% of your free time not considering sleep than I shudder at how ugly your GF must be, or how rough your palm is.

Imagine you had more responsibilities in life than loggin off when your mom told you to cut the grass, than talk to me about easy. Cuz i got full ranks of lvl 80 honor gear in Wow before I got 10 ranks of BS cosmetic gear in GW2.

And WoW never promised me no grinds GW2 did.

IMO they should fire the designer who’s name rhymes with Harp and suddenly you find the most OP class in any game suddenly balanced to normal OP MMO standards, and not talentless, brainless, godmode button spam with insta escapes.

Davinci.8027:

Fellknight.4820:

Chi Malady.2015:

Necro is the only way. They really need a new game mode to diversify the gameplay. I was a proponent of conquest (and I still enjoy it), but the bunker metagame has gotten stale.

It isn’t a bunker meta game it’s a repsonse to one class that is insanely OP in PvP. The only reason why bunker builds are so popular is because the game has literally been designed around one class.

There is only one class that can burst down a player in 1.5 secs.

There is only one class that can Rez and Stomp better than any other class.

There is only one class that can escape anything, run faster than anything, and mitigate dmg better than any guardian simply by not being seen.

Can you guess what class that is?

But when you have one designer who is an abosolute pvp moron(I’ll give you a guess it rhymes with harp) and who sets every game mechanic in that one classes favor.

From the fact that glory is based on who delivers the last hit(skirmisher, defender, assaulter) before downed state. To the way maps are arranged, tight camera angles, swift turns and corners, sudden terrain elevation, all garunteeing that a player can never see where thier team is to escape a zerg.(and a mini map that’s bugged to hell)

And you see how the game was designed to benfit the most over-powered mechanic every seen in an MMO.

This forces every class but the one meta into a bunker build unless they wanna die in secs to said class.

As for Guardian build they are one of the holy trinity to bunkers, Elemetalist, Engineer, Guardians. Guardians have an extreme weakness like all other bunker builds=low HP’s.
Sure they have alot of condition removal but they cannot defend agianst steady condition dmg, so high poison, bleeds, and burns that deal their dmg in 3 secs rule them. So classes that rely on burst, or stacking many bleeds or conditions do bad vs them while d/d Elementalists rule them( with abilities like drakes breath that deal 7+k over 3 secs before a guardian can remove it)

You’re basing the game around hotjoins. One word, son : tournaments.

I can only respond to factual statments based on the topic of the conversation I dont respond to morons who want to stroke thier own ego

Chi Malady.2015:

Necro is the only way. They really need a new game mode to diversify the gameplay. I was a proponent of conquest (and I still enjoy it), but the bunker metagame has gotten stale.

It isn’t a bunker meta game it’s a repsonse to one class that is insanely OP in PvP. The only reason why bunker builds are so popular is because the game has literally been designed around one class.

There is only one class that can burst down a player in 1.5 secs.

There is only one class that can Rez and Stomp better than any other class.

There is only one class that can escape anything, run faster than anything, and mitigate dmg better than any guardian simply by not being seen.

Can you guess what class that is?

But when you have one designer who is an abosolute pvp moron(I’ll give you a guess it rhymes with harp) and who sets every game mechanic in that one classes favor.

From the fact that glory is based on who delivers the last hit(skirmisher, defender, assaulter) before downed state. To the way maps are arranged, tight camera angles, swift turns and corners, sudden terrain elevation, all garunteeing that a player can never see where thier team is to escape a zerg.(and a mini map that’s bugged to hell)

And you see how the game was designed to benfit the most over-powered mechanic every seen in an MMO.

This forces every class but the one meta into a bunker build unless they wanna die in secs to said class.

As for Guardian build they are one of the holy trinity to bunkers, Elemetalist, Engineer, Guardians. Guardians have an extreme weakness like all other bunker builds=low HP’s.
Sure they have alot of condition removal but they cannot defend agianst steady condition dmg, so high poison, bleeds, and burns that deal their dmg in 3 secs rule them. So classes that rely on burst, or stacking many bleeds or conditions do bad vs them while d/d Elementalists rule them( with abilities like drakes breath that deal 7+k over 3 secs before a guardian can remove it)

nerva.7940:

reduce burst all around, then QQ will die out on its own. problem solved.

anyway, mug is broken, 6 HS with haste is broken, and there needs to be a stealth nerf as well

Sadly it will never happen because there is someone at the design lvl who is very bad at pvp who only plays a thief and obviously there in charge.

ilJumperMT.4871:

The only problem with thieves the morons who use macro expoits that renders them invisible while spamming over 5 heart seekers

This is the main problem and it’s in every match and it’s the most damaging thing to class balance yet goes unaddressed.

If I logged into a game with a Guest Pass trying to decide if I should buy it or not.

Then my first match I watch one guy press a button over and over again to score max points. I’d never buy the game. That is literally all the top thief used for attacks beside Haste Steal/mug Backstab when not on CD. He spammed a homing ability with the highest single hit dmg besides BS for the LOWEST INNIATIVE COST! Because skirmisher/defender/assaulter is rewarded on last hit and not majority dmg he easily maxed out pts by pressing a button.

Sadly I didn’t get to see this before I bought the game, I bought the game thinking I was buying an MMO from a highly reputable company. Not one dev’s personal playground for his favorite class.

Why give a cat stealth when we cant?

bladie.5084:

Fellknight.4820:

As of yet there has not been a single thief reply in defense of why any class should have

1. Highest Mobility
2. Highest Damage
3. Most Escapes

1. Highest mobility, yes but there are many classes that are on par.
2. Highest damage? No. Highest success rate of pulling off the profession’s highest damage skill? Yes. Do you understand the difference? It’s a given since thieves are granted teleportation and stealth skills.
3. Most escapes – Why not? What is wrong with thieves having the most escapes? Isn’t that the concept of a thief? What is a thiefs main concern when you know, being a thief? Not get caught, right? Lol no i must be wrong, lets give most escapes to Eles.

Perfect example of what I’m taking about a thief stating they dont have the highest dmg lol because there damage isn’t the highest. It’s just that there the best at pulling it off, WHO CARES PEOPLE STILL DIE IN 1.5 seconds, does it matter how it happened NO it matters that it’s happening.

Don’t Have the best Mobility lol just lol. I’ve never seen a class cross a map at 50% run speed and be able to run right past the entire enemy team. Now that’s mobility on par with NO ONE ELSE!

And conceding to the fact they have the most escapes so there balanced

LOL yea there balanced if you lie and say they aren’t the most mobile and don’t have the highest dmg in the game. Then he tells me Be real, stop being fake. Oh the hypocrisy.

Feldorn.6873:

well, of course shortbow rangers spam 1. it’s the only skills that is worth spamming. i’m not digging on the shortbow weapons skills, i actually think they’re really good, but you won’t be using any of them on CD.

poison volley is good, though it’s best at melee ranger
3 is good for the extra evade and creating distance
4 is good for the cripple and some extra condition damage from pets
5 is great but the CD is too long IMO. even traited.

so, looking at that, the only thing they accomplished is to lower the overall DPS of a weapon for a profession that already has fairly low DPS. when i use shortbow, i still only use 1. i pop 2 now and then, and 3, 4, and 5 as the need arises.

though really, i played a ranger in GW1, i really should have expected they’d have no idea how to make it work, and nerf anything the class actually does well.

What happened was a Ranger beat a Dev playing his thief and that dev pulled out his sharpie and marked out a plan to nerf rangers.

“The ranger class combines its own innate abilities with the skills of their pets. We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight. The fact that the ranger can have multiple pets allows them to combine their pets in ways that most impact the current fight. We want the Ranger to have some of the evasion enjoyed by the Thief, as well as the mobility other classes employ. The class is able to deal physical or condition damage, and it can do this in melee or at range.”

This was posted Dec 15th

I fail to see how Hide in Plain Sight gives a ranger ANY of the thieves evasion abilities, thieves escape Rangers die

nerva.7940:

main problem is stealth uptime. CD’s are straight up too low and stealth lasts too long. stealth is so long that u actually cant always see the thief coming. stealth is so long that if the thief messes up, he can easily disappear until all CD’s reset. no risk for generally high reward. anyway, it’s the same crap we’ve been saying since beta.

To quote Penny Arcade. “So the next time you see player’s crying on the forum for some game element to be nerfed, wait a few weeks and see what happens. Did the development team actually have to go in a change something with a patch. OR did the player’s move on and demand some different element be nerfed…If it’s the former the players were probably right and something really was broken”

We’ve waited months!

As of yet there has not been a single thief reply in defense of why any class should have

1. Highest Mobility
2. Highest Damage
3. Most Escapes

All I’ve seen is totally off topic rants, personal assaults, and blind ignorance.

I can only argue logical concise discourse.

I cannot play pretend that there is still a pvp playerbase when in reality it’s about 1% of the total players that bought the game doing pvp.

I can’t pretend that the pvp playerbase didn’t drop off a cliff everytime a pvp patch came out that addressed none of the problems with thieves.

I can’t pretend that there hasn’t been 500,000 posts all yelling to change this class in 4 months. I’ve never seen so many posts/views/replies about one class in a new game in my life.

So how come we have to pretend this class is balanced because 1 dev and 15 thief players can’t figure out how to pvp with even scaled abilities.

I can’t agree because although they are smaller height wise but there much wider than human or sylvari.

They have HUGE HEADS that are so wide a human or sylvari dropped to Min height can be just as undetectable, true there taller by alil but there so much skinnier.

I tried human/sylvari vs Asura and saw no difference in detectability due to width vs height issue.

What part of I ignore thief fanboys don’t you understand that means Daays, Lukin, Mindlessruff, ayedunited, Evilapprentice etc.

Anyone who spends 99.9% of their time on the forum defending the most grossily overpowered class every seen in a mmo I ignore. You all should have been perma banned from the forums ages ago for your balatant ABUSE of the forum’s TOS but the fact that the mod ignores your insane amount of infractions is more proof that the head dev plays a thief. Yet anyone who disagree’s with you gets banned and infracted while your post’s which consist of trolling and fanboy nonsense like L2play are dismissed.

Your gonna deny that thieve’s have more mobility, escapes and the highest dmg of any class and to you thats balanced? Really?

Mobility:

Fleet Shadow: 50% run speed in stealth coupled with shadow refuge makes you the only class in the game that can cross a map unhindered.

Shadow trap: Better than Mesmer’s portal in the fact that it’s brainless set it on a node, trebuchet, Savnir/Chieftan and you auto port back to it the minute it detects movement and it stealth’s you for 5 seconds.

Shadow step: A teleport and teleport return with stun breaker that REMOVES CONDITIONS!

Shadow Signet: 25% steady run speed

Inf. Arrow: Shortbow spammable teleport

Escapes:

Shadow Refuge: 10 second invis with hidden assassin trait that can be used to gain 10 stacks of might. And with shadow Rejuv can be used to get a ton of life back. And I’ve heard the Bs arguement that you can be hit in it, yeah you get a huge circle you can move around in and leave in 3 secs and retain the 10 sec stealth.

Blinding Powder: With trait and utility skill

Cnd: 6 inniative spammable invis

Hide in shadows: A heal plus stealth plus remove all conditions, WHAT?

Master of Deception: For 10 pts in Shadow Arts dropping every stealth ability CD by 20%

Damage:

Everyone knows these guys can deal it out better than any class and theres many ways to do it.

But every thief fanboy is going to pretend these abilities dont exist that they die like a dusk till dawn vamp exposed to sunlight when hit and they arent the easiest evade/escape get out of jail from any problem class in the game, WITH THE HIGHEST DMG!

Sorry but all of these things will make any new player to this game who has experienced any other MMO leave and never turn back, thinking what 90% of the pvp playerbase already knows, these devs are nuts.

Bottom Line if you have a class creating nerf threads that have more views/replies than there is players doing pvp at any given time, and it has been consistant since beta, it’s time to nerf that class to the floor.

If you don’t understand that as a designer you need people to play your MMO in order for it to be successful than it’s probably time for a career change.

Because at the end of the day it doesn’t matter how you feel as a developer if no one wants to play your game.

And the most logical thing to do is what the 500,000 players have been screaming for since before day one, Nerf the thief. You really think your right and 90% of your playerbase is wrong come on now.

evilapprentice.6379:

Fellknight.4820:

Raytek.6193:

What PvP rank are you?

I’m rank 30 play a thief condition spec myself and there is nothing i haven’t encountered on my thief that I can’t kill in under 10 seconds. The best bunker guardian with awesome condition removal will crumble before me. I get a 4 second daze from my steal and switch to my pistol’s vs bunkers and burn them down by mixing blind, bleed, and high unload spike dmg while timing my daze with the stolen over the top insane daze for 4 seconds.

My question to you is how little common sense can you have to not realize when your playing something set to monkey easy mode in pvp?

Have you ever won a tournament in another game for real life cash?

Have you ever been ranked by game pro as one of the best pvpers in a game?

Have you come in .01% in the ranking system of any pvp game with over 10 million players?

Because if you have you would never embaress yourself by defending a class this overpowered.

Please, Oh Please, explain to me How you are mixing condition and spike damage in a never before seen combo (against a high armor bunker which likely has multiple condition drops, btw)which makes both so powerful you can “Burn down Bunkers” (Snicker) in 10 seconds?

Do please provide some sort of verification for your list of “acheivements” (Which honestly don’t apply because they’re not in GW2, but we’ll ignore that for a moment). I’m assuming you don’t have any, in which case I’ve done all those things too.

This is by far the worst hyperbole I’ve seen on the boards yet. Your entire bunker busting claim is pure fantasy, or else everyone would be using it. I built P/D conditions back in the day when Pistol Mainhand was considered worthless – every player I killed asked me what build I was running (because they had no idea what i was doing to them), and in a week, it was all over the place. If your mythical build existed, it’d be run by every paid tourney team with a thief.

Go get fraps, go find a guardian on the top QP list, and lets see you burn him down in 10 seconds. Since that isn’t possible, just stop lying.

I’ll give you the same explantion you’ve given(I’n almost all of your post’s defending thief class) to countless logical reasons players have posted to why thieves are overpowered.

Learn to Play!

P.S. why do I need to fraps something 1000 players have already fraps lol. You Tube much?

Arheundel.6451:

Fellknight.4820:

I agree 100% but you will find no logic or support on these forums because the developers agree with the fanboys.

I’ve never seen a game that they gave a burst class re-stealth over and over again WHILE giving them the best mobility+highest dmg on easy mode attack spams.

They buff mesmers over and over again, giving them the best avoidance(clones) plus invis, plus insane dmg output.

Basically the guys making the game are absolutely crazy, biased, and have made this a funland for the classes they like while ignoring reality on every level.

Unless they fire the two guys driving pvp balance down a sheer faced cliff this game will continue to be the joke of modern pvp that is with the highest attition rate of a pvp community ever seen.

Unless this is done^ this game will be a cautionary tale of what not to do in a pvp enviroment, avoided like a leper colony by future pvp designers.

Well the game was advertised as a visual intense action MMO, reaction time come in huge play in this game and you need to train in it, but trust me once you do learn, to dodge incoming attacks will be quite easy.
Most times you’ll need to predict the enemy next move and memorize their attack pattern ( everybody use a different methodology more or less) once done that you’re basically done

Dude i’m a rank 30 champion, i have won tournaments in games with 40x these players for real life cash and have been in the top ranked pvp guilds in real pvp games. so wth are you talking to with pvp advice?

I agree 100% but you will find no logic or support on these forums because the developers agree with the fanboys.

I’ve never seen a game that they gave a burst class re-stealth over and over again WHILE giving them the best mobility+highest dmg on easy mode attack spams.

They buff mesmers over and over again, giving them the best avoidance(clones) plus invis, plus insane dmg output.

Basically the guys making the game are absolutely crazy, biased, and have made this a funland for the classes they like while ignoring reality on every level.

Unless they fire the two guys driving pvp balance down a sheer faced cliff this game will continue to be the joke of modern pvp that is with the highest attition rate of a pvp community ever seen.

Unless this is done^ this game will be a cautionary tale of what not to do in a pvp enviroment, avoided like a leper colony by future pvp designers.

Fellknight.4820:

I’ve seen classes that can get away from just about anything.

I’ve seen classes run faster than anything.

I’ve seen classes 1-2 shot people.

Just never seen a class in a game that could do all of these at the same time,

Reading is fundamental, while common sense seems rare on these forums.

Respond to that with why you feel one class should possess what no other class in any other MMO has ever had.

And CnD is a 6 initiative stealth ability, I’m amazed at how thieves can defend a class they have zero to little knowledge of, the avg thief can use it every 6 seconds to escape and stealth every 3 secs with reveal debuff with stealth abilities. While dealing massive dmg I might add!

How crazy do you have to be to defend a class that can restealth in combat OVER AND OVER AGAIN while dishing out the highest dps I’ve ever seen in a Modern MMO.

aydenunited.5729:

Guys Fellknight is a known troll on these boards, don’t get roped into any sort of discussion too seriously. He was around more frequently right after launch and just started posting again. If you search his post history you can see he clearly just makes posts to get a rise out of people.

Not a troll but you are a fan boy who defends the thief class in every single post while giving nothing but l2play and personal assualts in all of your posts.

I challenge anyone to check aydunited post history and try to find a single post he didnt rabidly rush to the defense of the thief class without providing a shred of evidence for why he thinks they are balanced. This is what they do to try to derail a topic and get it locked.

I gave 3 logical concise reasons in my post for why no class should have all three of those abilities, try responding to that.

Daays.4317:

Fellknight.4820:

We all know common sense isn’t too common now adays and that’s the only way anyone could believe thief class in GW2 isn’t the most grossly overpowered offensive class in any game.

not a single arguement that is anything but a childs angry rant to defend what makes no sense has been proposed to why any class in any game would have;

1. The best escapes including a 6 sec restealth ability

2. The best mobility and condition removal+ shadow removal lol which lets you outheal most conditions.

3. The best mobility with super stealth speed+ teleports and flat 25% run speed with signet, coupled with swiftness on avoid with 5 pts in Avoidance.

4. Plus the highest dmg in the game bar non.

All I hear to refute it is WAHHHH I play thief and it’s because I be best player not class op.

1. Wouldn’t call it the best escape. Thieves who stealth against me typically die when I play my warrior very easily. I sadly don’t get to see my 3k auto attack crits, but they just die while invis.

2. Warrior’s have the best heal for condition removal, as you can trait for it and remove every single debuff in the game.

3. Lots of classes have teleports. Ele’s, mesmers, Guardians can tele through walls and appear in a blaze of fire. Also signet and swiftness doesn’t matter. Either you have +25% or +33% from swiftness. They don’t stack.

4. My mesmer can do the 90% of the damage of a thief, yet in AoE. Much more punishing, especially since downing someone in a 1v2 as a thief really doesn’t matter, as they’ll res in your face. While my mesmer will down both of them and walk away.

Offense in GW2 is defaulted to high for all classes. The skill is in the defense and how you avoid it.

Exact opposite of an FPS, where the skill is in the offense (aiming)

I can’t respond to your post because literally everything in your post was a lie!

you don’t play a warrior or mesmer as your main YOU PLAY A THIEF! That’s why 99.9% of your posts are you vehemently defending every gross class imbalance that the class has.

The rest of what you send is such non-sensical garbage it doesn’t even deserve a reply, Warriors have the best condition removal LOL is my only comment. And pretending thieves dont have 50% run speed in stealth with only 10pts in acrobatics with fleet shadow LOL again.

We all know common sense isn’t too common now adays and that’s the only way anyone could believe thief class in GW2 isn’t the most grossly overpowered offensive class in any game.

not a single arguement that is anything but a childs angry rant to defend what makes no sense has been proposed to why any class in any game would have;

1. The best escapes including a 6 sec restealth ability

2. The best mobility and condition removal+ shadow removal lol which lets you outheal most conditions.

3. The best mobility with super stealth speed+ teleports and flat 25% run speed with signet, coupled with swiftness on avoid with 5 pts in Avoidance.

4. Plus the highest dmg in the game bar non.

All I hear to refute it is WAHHHH I play thief and it’s because I be best player not class op.

MindlessRuff.1948:

Fellknight.4820:

MindlessRuff.1948:

Fellknight.4820:

Raytek.6193:

What PvP rank are you?

I’m rank 30 play a thief condition spec myself and there is nothing i haven’t encountered on my thief that I can’t kill in under 10 seconds. The best bunker guardian with awesome condition removal will crumble before me. I get a 4 second daze from my steal and switch to my pistol’s vs bunkers and burn them down by mixing blind, bleed, and high unload spike dmg while timing my daze with the stolen over the top insane daze for 4 seconds.

My question to you is how little common sense can you have to not realize when your playing something set to monkey easy mode in pvp?

Have you ever won a tournament in another game for real life cash?

Have you ever been ranked by game pro as one of the best pvpers in a game?

Have you come in .01% in the ranking system of any pvp game with over 10 million players?

Because if you have you would never embaress yourself by defending a class this overpowered.

You must not fight very many guardians if they can’ t last 10 seconds against you, just because you enjoy stomping noobs in sPvP, does NOT mean they are OP.

Last time I checked noob bunkers don’t have Paragon, Magus, and Genius titles over thier head, but maybe you have a different definition of Noob than I do.

Ok lets see you kill one of these players in 10 seconds and I will believe you. You cannot expect people to believe your ridiculous claims otherwise.

Pistols are actually the best weapon in the game to collapse the defense of bunkers. Caltrops mixed with trait caltrops, plus sneak attack, vital shot and unload dmg with descent atk power and crit % and timed daze and blind= a win.

No bunker can remove conditions, survive spike dmg, and withstand well timed dazes and blinds at the same time.

Burst thieves usually kill themselves from ret, condition spec thieves have all the tools necessary to easily dispatch bunkers, sorry if you can’t figure out how to do it but it is very easy mode vs the best bunker build.

Not to mention the steal attacks you get as a thief are P-E-R-F-E-C-T-L-Y matched vs each bunker.

4 sec daze with Guardian COME ON!

Chill vs elementalist lol killing their mobility allowing you to avoid all there ground drops, churning earth etc while forcing them on the defensive with cond removal and spike dmg lol they cant handle both at the same time.

A smart Engineer actually has the best shot because your steal is the weakest vs them.

MindlessRuff.1948:

Fellknight.4820:

Raytek.6193:

What PvP rank are you?

I’m rank 30 play a thief condition spec myself and there is nothing i haven’t encountered on my thief that I can’t kill in under 10 seconds. The best bunker guardian with awesome condition removal will crumble before me. I get a 4 second daze from my steal and switch to my pistol’s vs bunkers and burn them down by mixing blind, bleed, and high unload spike dmg while timing my daze with the stolen over the top insane daze for 4 seconds.

My question to you is how little common sense can you have to not realize when your playing something set to monkey easy mode in pvp?

Have you ever won a tournament in another game for real life cash?

Have you ever been ranked by game pro as one of the best pvpers in a game?

Have you come in .01% in the ranking system of any pvp game with over 10 million players?

Because if you have you would never embaress yourself by defending a class this overpowered.

You must not fight very many guardians if they can’ t last 10 seconds against you, just because you enjoy stomping noobs in sPvP, does NOT mean they are OP.

Last time I checked noob bunkers don’t have Paragon, Magus, and Genius titles over thier head, but maybe you have a different definition of Noob than I do.

Fellknight.4820:

I’ve seen classes that can get away from just about anything.

I’ve seen classes run faster than anything.

I’ve seen classes 1-2 shot people.

Just never seen a class in a game that could do all of these at the same time.

When you can address this factual statement with something other than learn to play I’ll listen to your opinion, I’ll respond with logical discourse, and not discount you as a addle brained pedantic fanboy with no skill in pvp.

Raytek.6193:

What PvP rank are you?

I’m rank 30 play a thief condition spec myself and there is nothing i haven’t encountered on my thief that I can’t kill in under 10 seconds. The best bunker guardian with awesome condition removal will crumble before me. I get a 4 second daze from my steal and switch to my pistol’s vs bunkers and burn them down by mixing blind, bleed, and high unload spike dmg while timing my daze with the stolen over the top insane daze for 4 seconds.

My question to you is how little common sense can you have to not realize when your playing something set to monkey easy mode in pvp?

Have you ever won a tournament in another game for real life cash?

Have you ever been ranked by game pro as one of the best pvpers in a game?

Have you come in .01% in the ranking system of any pvp game with over 10 million players?

Because if you have you would never embaress yourself by defending a class this overpowered.

The head designer obviously plays this class and is totally out of touch with reality, because I’ve never seen a class this insanely over the top in any game.

I’ve seen classes that can get away from just about anything.

I’ve seen classes run faster than anything.

I’ve seen classes 1-2 shot people.

Just never seen a class in a game that could do all of these at the same time, and a design team absolutely unwilling to address the fact that it’s this out of control. So lets all stop pretending this is a mistake or balancing issue when we all know exactly what’s going on here, blatant favoritism towards a guys preffered class.

Most players call the game Thief Wars you really gonna tank your own game pvp wise to keep your class on easy mode pvp.

Rezz.8019:

^ No, Guild Wars 1, which had the best PvP and combat system of all MMO games, didn’t have it.

It also wasn’t a zergfest where a player could be killed in the duration of a single knockdown, it also didn’t have stealthers with 12k single ability burst.

And Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO was more of diablo hybrid with rooms you could switch from in the same zone.

Diminshing Returns stop you from rolling across the screen, stun or dazelocked for over 5-10 seconds. It reduces the duration of Crowd control abilities the more your hit with them until you finally go immune for a limited duration.

Basically Guy A hit’s you with a knockdown

Then Guy B hit’s you with a daze within say 3 seconds of the knockdown the daze duration is reduced

So then Guy C can’t hit you with another knockdown/daze/stun because your now immune for a few seconds. It’s so players can’t be chained and die without ever having a chance to counter.

It is literally in EVERY MMO that has ever existed except this one.

I think that honestly 99.9% of the playerbase agree’s with this it’s just one of those things that make you realize Anet should have hired someone else to do there PvP balance.

Downed State: Makes it nearly impossible for a skilled player to defeat 2-3 opponents.

Glory: Worst system I’ve ever seen it literally rewards uncoordinated teamplay. Skirmisher, Defender, and Assaulter are the same flat +10 reward and they are rewarded on the last hit to downed state. Rewarding the last hit to downed state is literally saying yeah you can go condition spec but burst specs will get more glory more easily. It should be less of a reward for skirmisher, and it should be rewarded by majority dmg not last hit.

Haste: Too exploitable, too hard to balance, too unnecessary.

Hacks/Mods/Macros: Almost 50% of the matches I run have atleast one person using illegal cheats. Yet there is no section for it in report lol in a game with more cheaters than legit players at the high lvl range, hilarious! Any player running a filter or mod to detect cheats can see how absolutely out of control this problem is.

No Dimishing Returns: Never seen a game that needed it so badly, never seen programmers more reluctant to add it.

Patches: With each patch balance gets worse, more bugs are added than fixes, and the classes that need the least help are addressed before the classes that need the most. I’d hate to see the pvp design teams priority list, because it should be called the What the kitten list.

I hate to sound so negative but it’s hard to be postive when most problems require common sense more than careful slow tested balance to fix.

Not a single class that has this ability requires it to function in the roles envisioned by the design team. Theives, Warrior’s and Ranger’s can pump out a ton of DPS without these abilities, and Engineer’s and Mesmer’s don’t need it to fulfil their roles.

I don’t know who is testing these classes that they cannot figure out a way to perform quite excellently without haste attached to 3-4 hotkeyed abilities but they probably should be on the PVE team because this does more damage to your game’s pvp than anything else.

There is zero chance of growing an Esport watching a player kill someone in 3 seconds with hotkeyed haste spam. It’s not fun, skillful or competitive in any form of pvp.

This is why you see such discontent from the pvp community, because stupid mechanics that are unnecessary are ignored for far too long while it is clearly a common sense issue more than a balancing one.

Archaon.6245:

Brutalistik.6473:

Archaon.6245:

Brutalistik.6473:

Archaon.6245:

If you run with zerk amulet and dmg runes you have to expect that. End of the story.

You can run with any amulet or runes and still end up with the same result.

LOL…one question..

Have you EVER played the game? If you get facerolled by bs thieves with every gear well…seriously…go play metin2 or wow…

Actually there are ways to not being killed also in full scholar zerk gear…strange uh?

I don’t think I would be commenting on here if I didn’t play the game right? plus I play a thief as well and I know what I’m talking about so I don’t what you’re justifying.

Oh…so you play a thief and you faceroll everyone with bs? Tomorrow i’ll add you and join with you in spvp, let’s see if you can faceroll me…I’ll drop soldier’s amulet going with zerker (So i’m already doomed if you’re right) and S\D…deal?

No there not totally faceroll there actually a very underpowered class thats why almost no one in spvp would ever consider playing a thief. And this pic the two highest players didn’t gain those pts because there thieves they just happened to be the best players in the match lol.

Suzu.4193:

Fellknight.4820:

Suzu.4193:

sigh thieves are the easiest class to kill…pop a block or a stun break….hell if you dodge while he steals you dodge the ENTIRE combo. You need only stun or chain them once and you got em.

and for the stealth whiners just HIT THE AIR its not like he teleported hes still there, ESPECIALLY when they shadow refuge just spam that little circle and it will die.

stop complaining and play the game

I keep hearing thieves try to sell this dodge theory, but I’ve never seen anyone do it successfully when i play my thief.

I only have to sit in shadow Refuge for 2 seconds then I can leave the circle and retain stealth. I get halfway across a map before the stealth runs out so you didn’t see my shadow refuge go off and you have no clue that I’m there. Shadow Refuge is also a pretty large circle and it’s very easy for me to avoid someone wildly swinging a sword.

Even if my stealth ran out my steal re-stealths me, so the only way your gonna avoid a 19k dmg off mug/steal Bs is to be pyschic, Holy crap can you read minds?

I’m also very well aware of every viable ranger build and there all pretty much free kills never had a ranger defeat my thief 1v1 lol and I will prove that to any ranger in hotjoin.

sigh complain all you want all the mechanics to dodge it are there, use them bro stop complaining, thieves only one shot people who are new or people who are taken by surprise, even then its not a 1 shot combo since the c&d nerf.

You don’t see any Tpvpers complaining do you? It is sadly that, [L2P] if you think thieves are your crux than pick one up and try using it then you will know what too look for to counter them, not too hard.

I’ve tried every profession and i rotate between guard, mes, ele, thief, and necro not in any order just what i feel like playing.

TL;DR
If your complaining about thief and you only play hot joins try Tpvp.

I’m saying I do it on my thief and i will prove you cannot counter it, i’ll explain how it’s done and how it can penetrate any lvl of toughness or countering.

All you say is L2P, it’s a very ignorant way to disprove someone using logic when all you do is personally attack someone when i’m saying I play the class and think it’s cheap and unfair. And sorry to burst your bubble but 90% of the players with champion are running radar hack and illegal macro mods. Believe it or not but i know thats true. There names can be clearly seen on tons of macro/mod/hack forum boards.

Suzu.4193:

sigh thieves are the easiest class to kill…pop a block or a stun break….hell if you dodge while he steals you dodge the ENTIRE combo. You need only stun or chain them once and you got em.

and for the stealth whiners just HIT THE AIR its not like he teleported hes still there, ESPECIALLY when they shadow refuge just spam that little circle and it will die.

stop complaining and play the game

I keep hearing thieves try to sell this dodge/block theory, but I’ve never seen anyone do it successfully when i play my thief.

I only have to sit in shadow Refuge for 2 seconds then I can leave the circle and retain stealth. I get halfway across a map before the stealth runs out so you didn’t see my shadow refuge go off and you have no clue that I’m there. Shadow Refuge is also a pretty large circle and it’s very easy for me to avoid someone wildly swinging a sword.

Even if my stealth ran out my steal re-stealths me, so the only way your gonna avoid a 19k dmg off mug/steal Bs is to be pyschic, Holy crap can you read minds?

I’m also very well aware of every viable ranger build and there all pretty much free kills never had a ranger defeat my thief 1v1 lol and I will prove that to any ranger in dead server duel