Guild Wars 2

Vizu/SFR are populated by zerg trash. I have yet to meet a decent player.

To give the ingame tool another shot, I started my listing with “Read carefully”, noone did. Lvl36s and undesired professions flooded my group. I will miss the time of gw2lfg.com.

Sounds horrible.

I used the ingame LFG tool to search for competent players for AC speedruns. Lowlevels and signet warriors flooded my party, joining faster than I could kick them. My announcement clearly stated who I wanted to play with. Nobody read it, everyone simply joined. Guess, I will stick with gw2lfg.

Sigils of the same type – “always on” – do not stack.

It would be great to see the AP score.

Ironically, if you are an honest player that never leaves matches, then your rating on the leaderboards will profit from leavers.

ghaleon.2861:

Solo queue is a nightmare, 99.9% of all my matches are 4v5, afkers, rage quitters. […] Going back to LoL until pvp in this game gets good.

Haven’t you been one of those guys complaining about Elo Hell?

The buff does not make a difference.

Conquest lacks momentum and showdown. With “Victory or Death!” GvG had an amazing mechanic to keep the match interesting. In the last minutes the weaker team could come back into the game and win it. The possibility of comebacks creates tension for players and viewers. In League of Legends a single mistake in the lategame can decide about winning or losing. GuildWars2’s Conquest, however, does not allow weaker teams to come back into the game (except for foefire). With a lead of 150 points you can almost announce a winner. Therefore, most conquest matches bore viewers in the last minutes. No showdown, no comeback, just boredom.

The linear point accumulation makes Conquest one of the most anticlimactic gamemodes.

ESKan.6782:

I fail to see how this has to do with the Dunning-Krüger effect?

The thread is a prime example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. The OP even failed to spell it correctly. Incompetent posters are unaware that their posts are not worth the time to read it.

It’s GvG lol. My recommendation: Just spam your skills!

Daoc and Warhammer – as every world pvp game – had the same problems as GW2. For example, Warhammer had the culling problem with players disappearing in large battles. Mythic fixed it after several months. During fortress and city raids the lag was insane. Sometimes the server crashed.

There will be no fix for skill lag. The only solution is to discourage blobbing and spread players over the maps.

In my opinion the ele is fine. It is a balanced class.

yiishing.9057:

FirstBlood.7359:

There’s no successful competitive game that uses pure deathmatch. History is clearly on ANet’s side.

Uhm, Starcraft (2) and Quake, some of the biggest e-sports titles ever made?

Have you ever watched a top level match of Quake (Live)? It’s so much more than pure deathmatch. Map control, the control over armor and weapons, decides about winning or losing. You could call it objective-based.

Starcraft is deathmatch? Lol, 1v1 does not equal deathmatch.

Junkpile.7439:

Nobody care if it’s competitive. Main thing is that it’s fun.

Competitive is not the opposite of fun. Successful PvP games are fun, while providing a competitive environment.

There’s no successful competitive game that uses pure deathmatch. History is clearly on ANet’s side.

MMOs should stop to blindly imitate shooters. Instead of Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch, CTF or Bomb, MMOs should offer modes that fit to the game mechanics.

Jinks.2057:

The fact that you refuse to see that WvW is a week long competition is rather amusing. Do 3 servers compete for points in WvW? Is there a winner and loser? It’s a fact that WvW is a competition….can’t refute that.

Rock – paper – scissors has a winner and loser, but cannot be considered a competitive game. Simply by chance one side wins the match. The outcome is not based on actual skill, there is no real competition. In the context of WvW coverage decides the winner of the match-up. Most WvW’ers on my server have to work on the next day, therefore the night coverage is low. During the night our opponents can accumuluate points without resistance. How can you call a gamemode that lacks opponents competitive?! Competitive games are built one the idea of equal numbers, equal starting positions, equal gear, … . WvW is the opposite of competitive.

Jinks.2057:

I am simply here stating even though GW2 WvW is fraught w/ all those horrible issues its VASTLY more popular than any sPvP/tPvP venue. So logically as a company you would allocate man hours and resources to the bigger portion of your player base.

Do you know the numbers? No, you don’t. In WvW the players form a zerg and rush from door to door, leaving the rest of the map unpopulated. In sPvP, however, with the server structure you will never encounter a zerg or skilllag. Your individual observation cannot measure the popularity, neither of sPvP nor of WvW. The most “popular”, popular means 80 viewers on average, WvW/GvG streamer is the elementalist from Second Law. The sPvP/tPvP streams average 200 – 300. That’s still a low number, but definetly more than WvW. The hardcore WvW/GvG community lacks numbers, but is egocentric and vocal.

Jinks.2057:

Nope your ignorance is coming out here.

Jinks.2057:

Here’s where your ignorance shines through.

Jinks.2057:

ignorance

Jinks.2057:

ignorance

Jinks.2057:

ignorance

Have you noticed that you accuse everyone that does not agree with you of their ignorance? That’s the spirit of a true debate and a sign for respect for everyone that does not share your narrow view of the world.

Jinks.2057:

WvW has tons of competition. Infact the core game is a week long competition. As for your statement on ZvZ being decided on numbers…..not totally. What happens when 20 skilled players come face tank that 80 man blob?

Skilllags happens. No matter how good and skillful as player, you are kitten ed to press 1. “Week long competition”? Would you call the night raiding, PvDooring and Blobbing at the prime time competition?!

I would challenge the others points that you have made, but considering your attitude towards discussion …. a waste of time.

GvG zealots dominate the WvW subforums, trying to force their narrow view of the game on everyone.

Jinks.2057:

Please focus on our WvW Anet. Listen to the players

In WvW build diversity exists, because WvW offers no competition. In zerg against zerg even the worst builds can be carried by outnumbering your opponents. Fighting doors gives no feedback how bad your build really is.

Condition damage in WvW is even worse than in sPvP. The +40% condition duration from bufffood is insane. How would you have to adjust your gear and traits to gain such a bonus?! Given the broken bufffood, you can only counter it with – cond duration bufffood. The – cond duration bufffood is expensive and only useful against condition classes.

Extreme condition and power damage – a problem exacerbated by ascended weapons – makes WvW unfit for competitive play.

Seigfried.5938:

I don’t spvp because of the imbalance. if we were allowed more variety of builds, like we can in wvw, i would def do it.

In sPvP I really miss perplexity engineers, burst builds with 120% critical damage and all the other broken builds of WvW.

AndrewSX.3794:

2 issues.

Objective based modes are NOT a real pvp. Holding stuff =/= killing stuff. Which is one of the various reasons Spvp is failing hard, and in wvw you can see whole zergs waypoint out of towers where they’ve bunkered in to avoid fighting.

Second, at least in 20 vs. 20 you use your character, instead of an arrocart.

Tell me: How many competitive successful games use pure deathmatch? How many competitive successful games use 20 vs 20?

Not a single one. The ugly thing that calls itself GvG constructs an enviroment that renders invidividual skill irrelevant.

I cannot stand watching the full video. The video lacks structure and the person behind it eloquence.

Sadly, he does not understand objective based PvP. Moreover, he does not understand the problem of large scale fights in general. Fighting 20 vs. 20 removes any skill requirement left in the game.

No profession can counter the warrior in its current form. Thus nerfing the warrior is the only way.

Complexity overwhelms most posters on the elementalist subforums.

Yaki.9563:

I’m not confused because what matters is the effect, not the function behind it. If damage reduction didn’t decrease it would be crazy overpowered and people would be running around nearly invincible. Also, stating that power gives constant gains is misleading because that 100 damage you gain when your damage is weak is a lot, but that 100 damage you gain when you are already dealing out a large amount of damage is negligible.

I’ve already understood what you tried to explain in earlier posts. Starting with 100 damage and then adding another 100, increases your damage by 100%. At 200, the next 100 damage increase your damage by 50%.

Arguing with percentages with different base values is misleading. In the context of power and damage it makes no sense, you have to use absolute values instead of percentages. By your absurd logic any linear relationship between two variables would have dimishing returns, despite a constant derivative. The internet and math, just wtf. In the spirit of the latest GW2 update I suggest: back to school!

Such an analysis only provides a narrow view of the overall problem, because it considers too few variables. In your analysis you forgot to take Protection into account. Boons define the elementalist. Some build can keep permanently protection up, giving you 0.33 damage reduction. Protection influences the effect and the optimal value of toughness. Ironically, protection reduces the marginal damage mitigation effect of toughness.

Yaki.9563:

Your post shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how damage reduction works.

The decreasing marginal benefits from toughness (armor) are the obvious result of the properties of the damage function. You confuse yourself by using percentages instead of conducting a proper abstract analysis.

I might write a longer post in the other thread.

Furajir.3815:

FirstBlood.7359:

Too much toughness.

This is just a matter of personal preference. Would you ever say you have too much attack power? or too much critical chance? It’s all relative, I don’t like being taken down easily.

I enjoy being able to solo camps, surviving heavy burst from gc builds and being able to take multiples. I don’t have mobility outside of Earthshaker, so staying in fights longer, i receive more benefits from high toughness imo.

An additional point invested into toughness, indirectly into armor, reduces damage taken by a smaller amount than the previous point. In other words, the marginal effect of toughness is dimishing. Therefore, you can have too much toughness. After a certain point it is simply inefficent to stack more toughness, because the benefit is so tiny that you better allocate the points to other stats. With almost 3700 armor you crossed this point, by far.

You cannot have too much attack, because attack scales linearly. Moreover, attack synergyzes very well with the other offensive stats.

The choice of high toughness is not a question of personal preference. The core game mechanics – the calculation of damage – determines the efficient stats allocation.

Too much toughness.

Wryog.5073:

Aaand there’s our first GW1 comparison for the thread! Thank you for pointing out something absolutely pointless that no one really cares about. It’s like comparing custom arenas to arenas in WoW – absolutely pointless as they have nothing in common. Using the same name means nearly nothing.

Thanks for your thoughtful comment! Do you know that the meaning of words depends on their context? In most other games “GvG” could be the arbitrary label for any kind of group PvP. In Guild Wars, however, the use of GvG has a long history. ANet built the first game and its lore around the idea of GvG. In GuildWars2 players constantly demand an implementation of GvG. That being said, you cannot separate GvG from GuildWars.

In GuildWars2 the GvG played in WvW and the game mechanics do not fit together, making it a shallow deatchmatch without strategy.

Xom.9264:

Im getting the feeling we have alot of bads that know they cant hang in deathmatch format seen it before, conquest inflates egos because akittens core avoiding fights when you can take a circle is the best tactic

How many competitve successful games are played with 40 players? How many competitve successful games use deathmatch?

20 vs. 20 deathmatch is an enviroment where individual skill does not matter. Maybe, that’s why you like it.

4 vs. 4 Teamfights in sPvP are already terrible to play and watch. GvG with its 20 vs. 20 is so much worse. I have tried, emphasis on tried, to watch GvG live at the windmill and on twitch streams. Nobody can honestly tell whats going on with thousands of skill effects. Random dodging and mindless spamming is more prevalent than in sPvP. ANet designed the game around 5 vs. 5 and not zerg vs zerg. AE-Spells can hit five targets and the combofields have limited charges. Without dedicated healers and the lack of protection spells, individuals cannot survive focus damage by many players, because they have to rely on their own heals with long cooldowns. Downed state and rally? These two mechanics do not fit into large scale battles as they lead to absurd results.

Calling the mindless WvW clusterkitten “GvG” is hilarious for everyone that played GvG in the first GuildWars.

MiLkZz.4789:

Just run 2 eles, coordinate well and you can get 20+ might stacks up at all times. This helps with the lack of damage :p.

A single Ele should be able to get 20 might stacks.

Most players in WvW just play their build, they don’t adapt to the meta. In sPvP necros completely destroy the ele, in WvW however competent condition necros are rare. Except for RTL, all changes to the ele only impacted the profession in sPvP. ANet even splitted some traits/skills such as cleansing water.

I cannot recall having met a good roaming mesmer. They are either too tanky and lack damage, or too bursty and squishy.

The forums should be a temple to praise ANet, the gods of game design. In their wisdom they gave us time-gated content and the eternal grind afterwards.

Daecollo.9578:

I’ve noticed a pattern lately…

Everyone uses the same Traits.

Everyone uses the same Runes.

Everyone uses the same Sigils.

Everyone uses the same Skills.

The choice of traits, runes and sigils is a simple decision problem. Decision problems have an optimal solution. In every competitive game the professionals play the optimal strategies, else they wouldn’t play at the top. In League of Legends you can choose between hundreds of item combinations, yet top players only play a few. Every hero has an optimal item build, an optimal build order and an optimal order to level the skills, with slight varations depending the match and opponents. The first GuildWars provided a great diversity of builds at the first glance. In GvG and HA, however, there were only few optimal builds for every class. During my days in GvG, every top guild ran the same warrior build: Eviscerate.

The convergence of builds and strategies, for the lack of a better word, is a law of nature. The phenomenon is not limited to video games, you can observe in every competitive game, may it be chess or soccer.

The thread is in the sPvP forums. Everyone that played any type of PvP, may it be WvW or sPvP, must have anticipated that conditions will be nerfed in the future.

With the naive “I invested so much time” you could argue against every balance change, even against balance changes that are vital for the game.

This match-up is for sure better than against Fort Ranik and Baruch Bay. Two international servers means action, at least on the forums, against forum warriors.

Sorry, I don’t farm on my ele (I don’t like grinding in general) and I can’t recall that I’ve ever run out of attunements.

The smartest PvP’ers communicate in cryptic sentences, that make absolutely no sense. Warrior might be the better choice for you, my friend, after all it is easier.

Zumy.6318:

Aaah, NOW I remember you from our last match-up. You lead the Riverblob over the map, but my five men crew wiped you and your zerg. (The reader may add more fiction here) With that being said, whatever you write must be wrong.

I would call this reply the cheapest Ad Hominem attempt that I’ve seen in a while. Just a little advice: Stop making things up, it does not help your argument.

Ironically, at first you complain that “ele is so easy so read” (your words), then you start praising warrior. Warrior has the most obvious animations in the game: Bull’s Charge, every hammer and every greatsword skill. Skullcrack is a little different, but the skullcrack warrior is the classical one trick pony. Every experienced player can predict his moves, because the build leaves no space for creative, surprising maneuvers. A robot could perfect the skullcrack warrior.

The constant comparison with the warrior in this thread supports my first argument. The complexity of the ele, the least simple profession in a simple game, overwhelms most players. These players want a profession that is easy and straight forward to play. Warriors in their heavy armor, with clear rotations and passive healing allows bad players to be successful with minimal effort. It’s easy to play a warrior as bad player against bad players. However, their simplicity brings disadvantages. Warriors are predictable and easy outplayed by good players. Good players that play warrior can never reach their full potential, because the potential of the profession is limited by its simple mechanics.

So far I haven’t met a single decent elementalist in WvW. Most of them use staff and sit in one attunement all day. It’s more likely to see a black swan than a properly skilled S/D or D/D ele.

Thedenofsin.7340:

What I struggle with is understanding why ArenaNet appears to be so inadequately staffed/funded.

Considering the fast pace of PvE updates with the Living Story, minigames and reworks, let’s correct the statement to:

What I struggle with is understanding why ArenaNet’s PvP division appears to be so inadequately staffed/funded.

It’s easy to understand. Compared with PvE, PvP has a low population. Moreover, PvP players leave little money in the gem store. From a business perspective it makes sense to direct resources to PvE and desert PvP.

Lightning Flash.

Leuca.5732:

Actually when played correctly a condi warrior can almost burst you with bleeds. Most of them are bad though.

25 stacks of bleeding mean nothing, if you cannot cover them with other conditions. By design condition warriors suck, especially against classes with many condition removals such as the ele.

Zumy.6318:

On what server do you play and when can we meet in WvW? Because I will love to show you how it rolls to play vs somebody who has 1000 hours solo and smallscaleroaming on an ele and knows every single CD you will use just for the reason you just swapped attunements.

Ele is so easy to read that they only survive me on Guardian/Warrior/Thief/Ranger if they start running and dont turn around to look.

Currently I play on Riverside. So, if the WvW matchmaking wants it, I will you teach a lesson about the elementalist. The elementalist stands more than chance against all those classes. How should a guardian kill an ele? Bore him to death in cleric gear? Besides the necro and the S/D thief that nobody plays in WvW, there’s no threat to the ele. I cannot recall losing 1v1s to any class but the necro.

selan.8354:

FirstBlood.7359:

Do you even read patchnotes?

we do,but erm what buffs u referring to?

Doubling the speed of Phoenix and making the spell unblockable. The introduction of the fresh air trait. Just to name two.

The trait reworks made the S/D ele stronger, but the meta shifted in an unfavorable direction. Once the meta shifts again, the public perception of the ele will change.

Do you even read patchnotes?

Nikkinella.8254:

… condition warrior …

Yeah ….

That’s all I had to read. No class in the game should lose against a condition warrior, especially not the ele.

I liked the section about deathmatch and share your views. Putting players into an arena without any objective besides killing each other is shallow, neither fun to play nor to watch.

Zumy.6318:

Does somebody of your team actually play the game? Everybody and his mother moved away from Ele.
This is disappointing… thank god I levelled a Warrior now.

Many here love to quote Helseth’s Rant of the Week as pinnacle of human wisdom. While I almost never agree with his points, he’s absolutely correct that only S/D thieves and necros kept the buffed ele and mesmers in check. If it turns out that the ele is not ok, then it is because the class is slightly overpowered, not the opposite.

The ele is ok. Many eles are at the bottom of the foodchain, because they are plain incompetent. The class is not as straight forward as guardian or warrior, therefore most players simply don’t get how to play ele.

I’m not sure, if the title will save this thread. The moderator is on a rampage.