Guild Wars 2

Xynn.2748:

Stop trolling John. He’s one of the 2 devs that actually interact with the community. At this point if you don’t understand the concept(s) discussed you are either intentionally trolling or incapable of processing the information.

IDK why you guys want to be so annoying that yet another dev decides to stop reading forums.

This, seriously. John, we really appreciate having you on the forums to share information and ideas. I hope people who can’t discuss politely don’t drive you away.

I respect the point that just because there’s a market doesn’t mean the achievement process is fun or fair. That said, anyone who wants to claim that there is market manipulation going on needs a lot better evidence than short-term price spikes or highly-demanded items being expensive.

I’ve read all the “evidence” in this thread, and none of it amounts to more than theorizing that some invisible cabal is driving prices higher. It’s irresponsible to accuse John, or ANet, of facilitating market manipulation if it’s something you can’t demonstrate exists.

If you think charged lodestones are too expensive, join the club. They’re used in cool items and drop either from a difficult dungeon or an unfun farm. I’d be happy if ANet increased the drop rate or added more ways to get those items. I’d also be happy if less stuff in GW2 required money in the first place (sorry, John!) since I think too much of the achievement in this fantastically huge and varied world boils down to making gold as fast as you can. None of that means there’s any evidence for market manipulation.

This trait works, it just has very short range. You need to be in close range to the shatter target to receive healing, unless you have illusory persona.

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

As for ascended gear, to reiterate what Chris has said (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside), it’s not intended as a treadmill, but rather as a tier of rewards that can help bridge the gap between Exotics (a few hours of effort to acquire a piece) and Legendaries (hundreds of hours of effort to acquire one). They’re currently only available in the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon, but we’re going to be adding new ways to acquire them, both inside of WvW as well as elsewhere in PvE.

It’s a set of rewards that bridge with higher stats instead of better looks—completely different from the previously existing philosophy of the game.

My only conclusion is you guys couldn’t afford enough new art, and so had to take the cheaper way out and raise the stats instead.

You could have added 10 new Mjolnir-class weapons. You could have added armor that has Mjolnir-class difficulty and looks. You could have called these new items “ascended” and slapped some purple text on them to appease the people who can’t look past the color.

But that would have required new art, and you didn’t hire enough artists for it, so you added a stat treadmill instead.

dalendria.3762:

And there has been no statement by Mike O’Brien, Arenanet’s President. He is the one for years plus before and after launch who stated that there would be no “gear stat progression” mechanic. No content gating.

Why has he not come out with a statement before or after this?

I’d love to hear from him. I really want someone from ANet to talk about this and address it more thoroughly, the same way they laid out their reasons for the original “exotics are max stats” plan very thoroughly.

Responses up till now (including, e.g., the Kotaku QA) really haven’t addressed why Ascended items need better stats than Exotics—they make a convincing case for having a new tier, I think, but not for why that tier needs higher stats and not just boosted prestige.

They also need to be more clear about their intentions for agony as a gear-gating factor. I’m glad to see agony is a fairly “soft” gate so far, but still, why gate with gear at all?

Make sure you express your views in game too! Even a threadnaught on the forums won’t change their mind unless there’s evidence large numbers of ordinary players are unhappy, and to do that we need to keep players who don’t come to the forums informed of the problem.

Tips:
Don’t get banned: be polite, don’t spam, and don’t exaggerate or go for deliberately inflammatory statements. You’re trying to keep people informed about the problem.
Use the quotes: you may have seen the manifesto quotes many times before, but not everyone in game has.
Engage with people who seem neutral, not anyone who just wants to fight. You’re much more likely to convince someone who asks “wait, I’m not clear why ascended gear is bad”
than someone who responds “get lost, they SAID THEY WERE FIXING THE GAP!!!”
Don’t attack people going for ascended items. They are reasonable for wanting the best gear; it’s not their fault ANet decided best=higher stats.
Let the actual negative consequences of ascended gear speak for themselves, when people start going “lfm ascended only”.

These ascended items are replacing my medium term goals, not adding new ones. Instead of working towards a sweet-looking weapon, now I’m going to go grinf Fractals so I don’t get locked out of future hard content.

tkalamba.2541:

Gingelyr.3648:

For the benefit of anyone just watching this thread:
There’s another official ANet response on the German forums. I try to summarize it here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/ANet-post-about-Ascended-items-German-forums/first
with some help from a German speaker (not me)

You may want to look here, someone on reddit already took care of it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/139a4j/official_post_ascended_items_on_german_forums/

I’m the same guy. I didn’t spot that anyone on this thread had caught my reddit post already, my mistake.

For the benefit of anyone just watching this thread:
There’s another official ANet response on the German forums. I try to summarize it here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/ANet-post-about-Ascended-items-German-forums/first
with some help from a German speaker (not me)

https://forum-de.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Einige-Fragen-zum-November-Update-mit-Blick-auf-die-Zukunft/first#post158833

My interpretation of the Google translate results:

1. They are explicitly not promising that Ascended gear will be the last item tier—they don’t want to make more promises that they can be accused of breaking later (like is happening this time). They note that in GW1, new gear was added over time—not a better-statted tier, but bonus combinations that weren’t available at release, like the +energy on staves.

2. New and existing content will be adjusted for the new tier. Dungeon armor will likely be adjusted, they’re not yet sure how. They see dungeon sets as non-obsolete because of the unique appearances.

3. They will look at how Ascended items affect the crafting skills, but there probably won’t be Ascended-related crafting adjustments this patch, even for Jewelers who are the most affected (what with Ascended rings being among the first Ascended items).

4. Q: What will happen when we’re done with the ascended tier—how will you satisfy the community desire for progression?
A: We’re focusing on progression content—so things like Fractals & Agony which gets harder. So the gear is just to serve the progression content.

5. Q: Ascended items fill the time gap, but why does that mean they have to have better stats?
A: They know there are different ways to fill the time gap, and were expecting different opinions on whether stat rises were the right choice—so they aren’t surprised by all the anger right now. As a side note, they are counting on the slow release of Ascended gear to contribute to the feeling of it being a longer-term goal than exotics.

6. Q:What about the triforge pendant?
A: they’re not planning on buffing it—it may be better than some of the early Ascended amulets. He points out that GW1 had some items that were valuable early on but later became less valuable, and some new items that were better than old items for some builds.

Edit1: Got some german translation help and changed point 2—looks like they are planning on changing dungeon armor, but not sure how.
Edit2: Added a bit more on point 6.
Edit 3: some more translation help. Thanks infmelon!
Edit 4: Another german stepped in to clarify point 3.

ANet logic:

Q: What’s in between looking average and looking fantastic?
A: An invisible ring with +8% stats!

I’m so glad I can now bridge the gap between exotics and legendaries.

(anyone who said “looking good” or “looking great”, please stay after class for remedial math and logic)

Is it just me, or is the entire Fractals dungeon giving us fewer new unique skins than the Halloween update? I don’t see any new skins except that one crystal back piece.

In the Fractals press previews, there are no new skins visible or skinned objects for sale.

You know what I just realized? Think about how this impacts our ability to play with friends. Once I have ascended gear, all my friends need to get it too before they can join me in content I find challenging. If I go back to help them with their old dungeons or whatever, I’m bringing 8% more survivability and damage in. It’s already a pain with the existing tiers, but at least my friends who hit 80 get to exotics very quickly, and then we’re set forever (or so we thought).

I also want to hear what ANet thinks is going to happen 8 patches down the line when they’re done adding ascended gear for every slot. Are the people who relied on ascended gear as a reason to keep playing suddenly going to learn to love a game without a gear treadmill? I don’t see what the long-term hope is here.

Gilandred.9870:

Why aren’t the two gentlemen who originally declared that there would be no gear grind out front and center on this issue? Come out and take the heat; don’t send in others to do that which you should be doing….

Yeah, I’d love to see them address the fact that they gave us a very different message before. It’s like they’re trying to retcon their history.

There’s this huge logical fallacy being commonly expressed: that if the game is still playable with just exotics, it’s no burden on people without exotics just because there’s better gear.

Yes, Ascended gear won’t be “mandatory” for most of the game, but it will be mandatory to succeed at the hardest challenges in the game. Beating the hardest stuff in a game is fun for me, and the games I like best don’t put barriers in my way before I can attempt that.

Sure, Asc gear won’t make a difference in most WvW matchups, but it will in the hardest ones, where you’ve got just a slim chance of winning if you play your best. Sure, you can do some levels of Fractals without Ascended gear, but not the hardest ones.

Skill may always matter more, but so what? Lets assume I play my best—should my outcome ever depend on having ground out some stupid ring?

gadenp.7586:

The issue seem to have made the news on a website:
http://www.examiner.com/article/near-gear-tier-upgrades-coming-to-guild-wars-2

Like the last line:
“In a game where endgame was supposed to extend “beyond the traditional model,” it seems the power creep, the gear grind, and single track PvE experience persist."

Sounds like we’re winning to me
ANet is only doing this ascended stuff because they think it’s what we want. When people besides just forum nobodies start telling them they’re wrong, they’ll listen.

Namu.5712:

Currently GW2 as no real endgame progression aside from your legendary. Regardless of what you guys say or think a game that adds content that can be completed in a week will get stale.

Ok, let’s fix this for you then:
Fractals rounds 1-30 (or whatever) drop Fractal bits, which buy some pretty cool-looking exotics. Maybe four times the investment of a dungeon set, offset by the fact that Fractals has more variety than most dungeons.

For round 30+ you get Fractal coins, which buy halfway-to-legendary skins with legendary (=exotic) stats. By that point, though, the dungeon is so hard that no one can even figure out how to reliably do it on day one and only a few groups figure out the coordination necessary to start farming by the end of week 1. By week 4, most people understand how to do it, but it’s still a lot of hard work and plenty of people are distracted by the December event.

There are at least four tiers of cosmetic improvement and increased difficulty between exotics and legendaries already:

E1: Crafted exotics
E2: Order skins, cheaper mystic forge skins like Kymswarden or Drakevenom
E3: Dungeon sets, Orr karma armor, WvW armor
E4: Cultural armor, expensive MF skins like Charrzooka
E5: Epic forge skins like Foefire’s Essence or Immobulus
…then legendaries.

Where’s the gap? Someone who wants something in between base exotics and legendaries can work on a lot of other things.

In this patch they could have added:
E4-5 weapons for achieving a very high rank in Fractals repeatedly
E3 & E4 armor as you get deeper into Fractals
Retextures of popular E1-3 armor skins. Blue-fire CoF armor, gold & red glyphic weapons, etc.
E6 gear that’s even more impressive and difficult to get than existing exotics, but still isn’t quite legendary.
A formal ranking system for bragging rights—classify the exotics along the lines I did here, so people who are looking for that kind of gratification can say “I’m E4 in all slots and have a few E5s”

Of course, all of this costs money, in terms of paying artists to keep designing rad-looking gear. It’s so much cheaper for them to make Ascended rings.

Vorch.2985:

ANet adds a tier so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary.

You’re so uninformed. Exotics have identical stats to legendaries. Check the wiki if you don’t believe me.

New items to strive for is great. New items that unbalance the playing field with +77 stat points per item (note the increase in MF, and the MF-stat exchange rate) are unnecessary. Why couldn’t ascended items be only better looking and more prestigious, not numerically better?

piitb.7635:

Spend a week getting exotic gear. Good.
Spend a week getting the new ascended pieces. Bad
That about sums it up.

Spend a week getting the new ascended rings in a dungeon.
Spend a week getting the ascended backpiece by collecting forge mats.
Spend a week getting the December patch’s ascended gloves from Fractals-tier2.
Spend a week getting the February patch’s ascended pants from Fractals-tier3.
…rinse and repeat: new dungeon content and new ascended gear to “help” you enjoy it.

From the blog post:
This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.
As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

Two things to keep in mind:

1) ANet may have found that horizontal progression is expensive, while vertical progression is cheap. It’s easy to take items and slap some extra stat points on them. It’s hard to continuously design cool looking items.
[To which I say: fine, but you better be the absolutely kittenning best in the industry at slapping higher stats on items, because if you want to make that the focus of new content you’ve got a lot of competition]

2) The plans for ascended items were almost certainly started in early September—that’s the kind of turnaround time it takes to get this sort of stuff ready for release. In early September, a lot of people said stupid stuff about this game. The people who were giving feedback on endgame progression in early September were a tiny minority because most people took/are taking longer to hit 80 and fully gear up to exotics.

Because it’s dropped off the thread:

Yakkington’s ring isn’t 2, or 8, points better than the exotic.

MF costs stat points (compare a MF ring to one with just stats). The extra MF on Yakkington’s Ring is worth 67 stat points, so the ascended item is at least 77 stat points better than the exotic. If infusions offer any benefit outside of the new dungeon, that number just grows.

Wyrmrider.1692:

Compared to its Exotic counterpart, new Ascended-rarity “Explorer” ring has:
+5 Power
+5 Precision
+3% Magic Find
…
Magic Find is valuable. Some gear slots are more efficient for MF than others, but on an exotic ring 3% MF is worth ***67*** of another stat. (Compare: Opal Orichalcum Ring vs. Emerald Orichalcum Ring.)
…
I’m not that interested in debating how many stat points is too many. (The real problem is that in the designer’s own words, “This is just the beginning.”) But for those who are, the currently proposed number isn’t 2 or 3 or 5 stat points per item, it’s closer to 100.

I love how the item they chose to show in comparison was the most deceptive possible. The large value of MF on gear and the separated-out base and static-upgrade stats just make it as likely as possible someone walks away from that post thinking ascended gear is a trivially small upgrade.

One three-letter-acronym: NGE.

Arghh, so immensely frustrating. You can spin this however you like, but this is a straightup reversal of what I thought was a major selling point of this game. This is how I advertised the game to my friends!

It’s just such a downer. I really like this game, and I really don’t like any part of striving for ascended items. I was really looking forward to a dungeon that challenged me to play with more and more skill, not work myself up to more and more stats.

I’m wondering if the particle effect is bugged. Are there any other particle effects that disappear after a certain amount of time? Maybe they are supposed to be flashier but are bugged so we never see them in flashier mode…

Heyo, we got our #2 least-liked skill dramatically buffed.

<3 you, ArenaNet, thanks for reading these threads!

Oh my, yes please! Really, anything that makes mantras less of a pain to manage. Let me watch my graphics, not constantly check my UI to make sure I recharged my mantras.

Since mantras specifically have come up:

Best mantra: resolve
Worst mantra: healing

Resolve really simplifies some dangerous dungeon fights. It’s worth charging compared to dying to conditions, and easy to charge when you don’t need it (standing away from danger spots) so you have it when you need it.

MoHealing interacts badly with the downed system. Maybe it’s better in PvP, when you rally less often. But in PvE, you rally and don’t have it available, whereas the other heals cool down while you’re downed.

What’s so funny is I was really worried before playing that Destiny’s Edge would take over the story in this way. Instead (so far) I’m pretty enthusiastic about the role they play, and it helps that they’re voiced well and have interesting backstory.

Trahearne was a real surprise, coming out of nowhere to wreck the story.

People have called him a Marty Stu and now I’m trying to guess which writer loves him so much to make him the most beloved-by-the-plot character.

“I calculate the odds of our success at only 1 in 127,000”

“Well if Traherne’s that one, then I’ve still got hope”

or whatever the quote was from the end of retaking of Claw Island… just made my heart drop.

I agree with the OP, Traherne not only upstages the player character for a hefty chunk of the time, he doesn’t even do so convincingly. Rather than actually being cooler than the PC, he just gets treated that way by everyone for spouting extremely generic motivational lines.

Illusory Elasticity doesn’t apply to clones, Cartel Sunny.

Best:
1. Chaos Storm
2. Temporal Curtain → Into the Void
3. Feedback

Worst:
1. Phantasmal Mage
2. Mimic
3. Mirror

Chaos storm is super versatile and very fun. Temporal Curtain is deceptively strong, and Into the Void seals the deal. Feedback is the ultimate mesmer=troll move, super effective in certain situations.

Phantasmal Mage just seems to accomplish very little in the short time it manages to stay alive. Mimic is too hard to use effectively even when you know an enemy has projectiles, and not very powerful when it works. Similarly, Mirror must be used extremely skillfully to be better than Ether Feast—and even at that level of skill, the reward for your attention and quick reflexes is minimal.

I think we’d provide useful feedback if we simply listed the skills we found best and worst. To make this useful, here’s what I propose:

1. List the three skills you think are best and the three skills you think are worst, with at most a few words of explanation.

2. Format your whole post so it’s easy for ANet to read through this thread and get a general sense. Separate out your skill choices from any commentary, and make a separate thread to debate whether a particular skill is good or bad. A short explanation at the bottom shows the thought you’ve put into these choices, which is probably more convincing to ANet than just a list.

3. “Best” skills are powerful and fun to use. You’re always happen when they’re off cooldown. They might not be the thing you use most or the core of your DPS/control/support output, but they are really good at what they’re for. This is a vote to ANet to make more of our skills like these.

4. “Worst” skills are skills you have tried quite a lot and still can’t enjoy. This category is for “bad at what it’s designed to do,” not “I don’t want a skill with this purpose.” Skills you’ve barely tried, skills that aren’t useful in your build, utility skills that are great in niche cases but not broadly applicable (e.g. Archane Thievery)—these aren’t the best ones to list here.

5. This probably isn’t the right place to propose solutions to bad skills—if your idea is great, it’ll get lost in a skim-through read.

6. Any skill is up for grabs—weapon, healing, utilities, elites, shatters.

7. We’re obviously not going to get objectively best and worst skills—there’s not one playstyle or even one game mode to judge.

Things currently not spelled out:

Chaotic interruption and Bountiful interruption.

Phantasmal healing (what’s the uptime?)

Other things that are generally boss diesel in dungeons:

Focus! Into the Void is incredible at dealing with a pack, temporal curtain is very useful in certain fights where kiting packs is particularly key, and parking an iWarden on top of many stationary ranged bosses is very useful. The reflection trait is also very nice, since leaving a curtain up for the condition removal combo and having it simultaneously reflect projectiles is very protective.

I completely agree with Null Field and Feedback. These are so strong, between the base effect saving your party and the very strong combo field.

Chaotic interruption applies some surprisingly powerful conditions—I’ve seen blind and chill come up, though the chill may not be long enough to really impress.

Sword’s 3 can activate a leap combo twice. Not so impressive when you’re just reapplying Chaos armor or something, but in, say, a poison field, you quickly apply a buttload of weakness.