Guild Wars 2

Gempulse.9463:

This change needed to happen, whether some of you guys like it or not. The fact that only one path of each dungeon was being run was not fun to me and many other players.

“lets make the only enjoyable path as much un-fun as the rest – now people will do the other ones (which still are no fun) more!”

I see a flaw in your logic.

Takiwaki.5948:

there is really no incentive to complete a dungeon at all, just find the easiest and fastest way to gain tokens.

there are achievements and a daily bonus per route. people have to decide for themselves if they rather repeat a route or do another one for the bonus.

Lande.5782:

What’s not okay is the lack of rewards for each dungeon. Come on, throw us a bone here. Reshima has a great list of things that can be added, maybe in a random loot chest at the end.

right now most of the loot gets vendored. if someone ever finds a recipe for the forge to reliably upgrade gear (given it exists), all that blues/greens suddenly have a completely different value.
but yes, at least a random lvl80 rare would be nice. or put a dungeon reward box in the game which is awarded after each run and can include some of the stuff reshima posted.

DusK.3849:

Elthurien.8356:

I have no problem as a melee Thief in dungeons, PvE or WvW. I use my utilities
to blind, stun and daze to completely avoid damage, If I get aggro I take measures to lose aggro and continue to melee while controlling my incomming damage with smoke and avoidance. Melee is more challenging but it is far more enjoyable experience because of this.

Gentlemen, this is how you play a melee class. Take heed, especially if you’re playing thief. He knows what’s up.

too bad blind and CC doesn’t really work on champions and above, and even the instance trash can oneshot you in melee.

nice theory tho for everything up to veteran (which you can usually solo, so…)

Xista.7391:

If anything they should add a bonus to complete all three paths in a dungeon. Daily or weekly. +X tokens. It would help curve the grinding of one path multiple times.

you already get 10 bonus tokens for the first run per day per route.

EricGORE.7896:

Another interesting quote from the article…

“More specifically, we were told that weapons will come from story mode (one run = one weapon) and the rest of your armor will be earned from explorable mode.”

Hmmm…

tbh I wouldn’t count on anything official older than 2 months. I guess people already forgot about this:

howgie.8156:

Gray.9650:

even rushed there is so much idiocy in the reward system that makes me wonder how it ever made it into the live game:

• AC/CM gear not level 80

Not true. See the second bag (left side, above selling) when you open the armor vendor tab of the mentioned dungeon vendors. It holds lvl80 stuff for all of the dungeons.

this is true for every vendor except AC/CM. AC has lvl60 exotics, CM lvl70. the icing on the cake is that weapon cost the same number of tokens like the rest, only AC armor is a bit cheaper.

oh, and did I mention a potion is 400 tokens? that’s more than a 2h or a third of a complete armor.

hype r.5431:

I think this all comes from the days in wow with DBM making a huge thing saying its time to pop your defensive cds now or you are gonna die,

maybe. and maybe the bosses/fights are just poorly designed (not impossible, but more difficult/obnoxious than it has to be).

OP mentioned TSW, and in a certain regard encounters are very similar. however, everything there is clearly communicated, you can easily figure out where you screwed up – compared to gw2 where you have an additional layer of bad camera position, being unable to see moves/circles thanks to particle effects and bugged/overtuned mechanics.

Lucky.9421:

That was two years ago. Dungeons were one of the last things they worked on and clearly rushed.

even rushed there is so much idiocy in the reward system that makes me wonder how it ever made it into the live game:

• AC/CM gear not level 80
• 1h weapons almost 3/4 the price of 2h
• soulbound tokens

besides dungeons:

• same price for cultural 1h/2h weapons
• cultural armor costing more than the commander book and not even exotic?

and that’s just the stuff from the top of my head.

Fox.1054:

It very much gives a feeling of ‘I swung a sword’

you mean “I shot a rifle/bow”? because using melee usually downs you instantly.

neoplasmax.4286:

I mean it’s easy to rez people, you have skills like banners also..

put a vid on youtube how you ress people in coe, especially on subject alpha. just curious…

lysander.6154:

(and the average player isn’t expected to have completed it…since there’s so much other stuff to do if it isn’t your thing):

for example? doing 100% on another char? the same broken events in orr for karma which is pretty pointless if you got the armor and don’t want to do the legendary grind? (I exclude pvp because that option is always available)

lysander.6154:

1) use a cookie-cutter build and join a PUG, but only if your class can fit into such a build
2) join up with friends or guild mates to complete it, but since none of you really want to put in much effort, copy the cookie-cutter builds you’d use with a PUG
3) join up with friends or guild mates to complete it, failing and failing as you learn the dungeon and put together a somewhat unique party build that allows for completion
4) somehow find a PUG willing to do the same as option (3), which isn’t at all likely and probably why you have ANet saying the dungeons aren’t designed for PUG play. This was true of GW1, where PUG play meant doing option (1) most of the time.

thank for proving my point. but did you even read the rest I wrote about it?

lysander.6154:

From what I can tell, most of the ‘this is too hard’ complaints are coming from people who want the dungeon rewards without the dungeon effort.

of course, anyone who disagrees is a scrub and wants welfare legendarys. it must be nice to see the world in black and white…

Agent Noun.7350:

They didn’t in Guild Wars 1. Why would they now?

because gw2 is not gw1. as easy as that. and gw2 wasn’t a mmo.

as mentioned above, DOA had a more or less rigid setup, which excluded some professions/build outright. but it was only a miner problem because you could easily roll another char and do with that one. if you want to compare the “endgame” here and there you also have to compare the systems around it. pretty much everything in gw1 was unbound, you could use it on another char or even sell it. if you wanted you could get a tormentor weapon without ever setting foot in DOA – instead you could get the money through activities that were more suited to your playstyle and skillset.

now show me how I could do that in gw2? heck, I can’t even bring another char to the instance because the tokens are soulbound. this means I have to do it with exactly THIS char in THIS instance for THIS loot. that’s hardly revolutionary, that’s a step back compared to gw1
but hey, it’s an mmo, right? then it’s ok because instance grind is the status quo in mmos – funny tho that other mmo’s nailed the whole “grind stuff in instances for a reward” way better and more entertaining.

another thing that bothers me: with all the bugged stuff left and right, people really expect that suddenly dungeons are bug free and tuned to absolute perfection?
god beware a fix makes it easier, then it’s allegedly nerfed into oblivion because the casuals can’t handle it (I wonder how many vanquished minister cho’s estate HM pre-nerf and actually enjoyed it).

what matters in the end: is it fun? and it the current form it isn’t. the pacing is off, grinding down trash was already annoying 2005, even if you nail a mechanic the next 5 minutes you spend tediously whacking on a boss which becomes dull fast, and let’s not talk about story mode which is the same only with crap rewards (good luck finding someone to do the story mode after the initial rush).
why not use story mode to easy players into the mechanics (plenty of npcs around that can explain stuff)? why not award tokens for repeated runs (so players have an incentive to drag other through it)?
EDIT: crap reward in terms it offers no incentive to do it again. the helm is hit or miss depending with which level you do the instance or which build you have.

Xista.7391:

Thank you Anet. You basically told us to L2P in a nice way

It’s nice not facerolling content. Unlike some other MMOs that shall not be named.

see

Sajuuk Khar.1509:

I really it hate it when people try to use the “you want it less hard so you MUST mean you want it incredibly easy” argument.

as for “, our own internal testing teams and alpha test groups learned to beat them using a combination of player skill, synchronous builds, strong use of cross-profession combos, use of cooking/consumable buffs (these make a huge difference!) and well formed player tactics.”:

pics or it didn’t happen. I would especially like to see which melee builds they were running to find it “too easy”.

Efaicia.3672:

dungeons should take 20 minutes tops? wtf? go back to wow/rift please. This is not the game for you.

I have missed very much epic feeling dungeons for groups. I got to watch as Rifts dungeons were completely gutted and neutered to appease this crowd, and is ultimately the reason I left Rift. If you seriously want that type of play both WoW and Rift have 2 HUGE expansions coming out. Go to them. It is not wanted here.

killing off trash in DSM pre-nerf, SO EPIC.

SHORT instances have nothing to do with easy. a.net could easily remove all that stupid high hp trash and instances would still take 30+ minutes for a pug. would a coordinated group get it done faster? definitely, but they deserve it.

heck, TSW has no trash at all and the instances are still challenging – and actually fun.

Reinth.1498:

Let me get this straight, take out the squared off and how do you divide each zones with the right zone transition triggers and such?

someone didn’t play gw1…

currently a port into the dungeon requires everyone to be in the same zone, I doubt it works between servers.

with guesting however everybody would be in the same zone again. (that’s the theory at least and how it should work. a.net might disagree…)

HellHound.5480:

Um, you do realize that once you get the mechanics of the fights down, as well as everyone properly bringing the correct skills into a fight, dungeons only take 30-40 mins tops

COE would like to have a word with you.

somsom.5201:

The trash is WAY too OP and as someone said above, this is likely due to ANet wanting to keep a certain “pace” for a dungeon, which imo is bs and poor design.

Honestly, I think they need to sit down and re-tool EVERY dungeon and come up with some CREATIVE ideas, not just “oh lets put a trash mob here with 200% extra hp and stacking poisons/cripples”. Think up some clever puzzles/mini-bosses instead.

the problem is, there is no pace. it gets killed with the first trash pack. the whole pacing is off, during the instance and for the bosses.

even if you have a top-coordinated group and figured out the mechanic (if there is any/it’s not bugged), it still is a drag to move that bar down.

Malchior.5042:

Also, consider this…There are no trash mobs in GW 2 dungeons. The so-called “trash mobs” require at least the same strategies and mechanics neccessary to defeat bosses (and sometimes, even more so).

so it’s complicated trash. yay! all of a sudden I have fun now grinding down champions which a) have no connection whatsoever to the bosses and b) have an obscene amount of hp just to so we can enjoy them more!

still doesn’t change the fact that the fun get’s lost somewhere between the portal an the first boss…

there already are dailies (kinda) – the first run rewards extra tokens at the end.

Vanisher.9216:

Sadly this is true. They will probably nerf dungeons for the sake of casuals. I would respect them if they didn’t.

yep, a game should never be changed or balanced by reducing any number, because we all know this is a major nerf for the sake of casuals.

Krisko.4093:

However, certain measures should be taken to stop people farming dungeon equipment on one character and giving it to their alts that have never seen the inside of a dungeon.

why? seriously, what difference does it make? so I’ve done a dungeon 50 times but all of a sudden I’m a complete newb on my level 80 alt? if I spent the time for the run on this char on another makes absolutely no difference since it’s still ME who runs these dungeons (and spends the time in them).

if they really want to tell me each char progression is separate, then wtf are dailies/monthlies (among other achievements) account wide? it makes no sense.
OTOH, there’s a lot of stuff that makes no sense (ie karma prices for 1h/2h weapons, ridiculous prices for cultural armor that’s not even exotic, AC/CM gear not lvl80), so I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s actually intended.

JoeRosa.6035:

Why do I have to grind these dungeons? I barely want to play them the first time.
Don’t get me wrong,they are fun but they are so unrewarding. I lose more than I gain.

you don’t have to. there are plenty of other ways to get exotics. if you want the specific look however…

shaidyn.4016:

I can’t count how many great sword warriors I’ve seen jump into pug dungeons with their full glass cannon build and rage when they get wrecked. 5 signets and all traits/gear pushing damage. They charge, hit hundred blades, and get theirkitten handed to them.

so a lot of bossfights aren’t melee-unfriendly or just plain suicide trying to dodge stuff when you can’t see any circles under all the effects or trying to see a move the boss telegraphs in that big shiny explosion of light?

I’m curious how better gear/traits help you with these mechanics…

Freshwater Kangaroo.8962:

Gray: What a great pro tip right there! Do you want to know why that is? It’s because when you get into the overflow you get pushed to ANY server that has free space, that includes the other language servers. Stop saying “protip” when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

says the guy who probably never actually played on a german or french server (so has no clue what languages are spoken there – and I’m not talking about overflow), has no understanding what the language tag in the world selection actually means nor how it is enforced.

you’re right, it’s not actually “pro”. it basic common sense.

Freshwater Kangaroo.8962:

I want English servers.

last time I checked there were servers where english is the preferred language. just as the “special treatment” servers where another language is preferred.

keyword here is “preferred”, not “only allowed language”.

Gamakatana.1746:

/say is a whole new meaning, for me you can talk whatever you want in /say, /map is the “community chat” and while talking other languages we are putting apart alot of people that doesn’t understand, you want to talk with a person directly? use /whisper chat.

so if someone has a problem or a question but can’t formulate it properly in english you expect him to a) run around in say till he finds someone or b) whisper random people if they can help him in his mother language?

you will see other languages in chat, so better get used to it. like someone might ask you for the current time in his native language on the street. it just happens.

Lctl.6198:

Makes no sense to have non-marked worlds a free to speak whatever you want, yet have DE/FR worlds where you have to speak said languages ( im talking map chat.).

protip: even on these servers people are not always speaking german or french in map chat. imagine that…

VicSkimmr.3216:

So you basically want a dungeon finder, just without the actual system so you don’t have to admit that you want a dungeon finder.

someone doesn’t know the difference between a dungeon finder and a lfg-tool…

Runar.1342:

I tend to follow the same rule that I follow in life… If it seems too good to be true, it probably is…. In GW2… If it seems too good to be true, it’s probably an exploit.

that only works so far. missing digits on cultural weapons? obvious. but selling cooked stuff bought with karma for money?
exchanging one currency for the other is only logical (like gems/gold).