Guild Wars 2

Morgoth.4573:

Will these Holiday DE’s be hit by the same Diminishing Returns as the normal ones then? >.>

you bet. people might get too much rewards.

Anlyon.8375:

Low level folks will pretty much never get hit by this because you get more exp exploring and doing other events and hearts and POIs and vistas, and high level folks will only get hit by it if they are grinding the same event over and over. if they move about, then come back, its not a problem.

they do, even more than the ppl camping in orr (they just move into ML/straits). take kessex hills for example: how many different events are there? If I do hearts in the northeast the same handful of events repeat over and over.

it’s like the advertisements laugh in your face. “join our dynamic world without the same boring quests” – but don’t join it too often/long!

Kain Francois.4328:

A holy-trinity-meta hasn’t been discovered yet, or at least it’s very low profile. So in the process of fixing the dungeons, I think ANET has also been studying how players compete against overpowered foes.

you mean the exact comp the devs run it and any deviation is recipe for fail?

Malediktus.9250:

If they are soulbound on equip people could make kama to gold again.

yeah sure like.. no.

Fatalyz.7168:

@ Gray

Whether I can or can not is not the point of my post. The point of my post is to say that the devs themselves have said that explorable mode dungeons are not for PUG’s. I was responding to his statement that they should have let PUG’s test it so that they could see it was impossible for them to do. My statement merely was that is the point behind explorable mode dungeons, that they are not meant to be done by PUG’s. I see that bothers a good amount of people here, and those seem to think that the explorable mode dungeons should be able to be done by PUG’s when the dev’s have said that they are not meant for that.

and my point was even skilled/organized groups (the target demographic) are unable to defeat it the way it’s intended – which puts said dev statements in a whole new light

Fatalyz.7168:

If you can’t do them with a static group, so what, you aren’t skilled or organized enough. Point is that they have said Explorable Mode dungeons were not for casuals or PUG’s and should not be able to be PUGed. They were designed for skilled, organized, and dedicated groups that prefer a challenge. If this design isn’t what you are looking for, there really isn’t anything else to say except that there are plenty of other games out there were the dungeons are meant to be PUGed.

do you kill every mob in magg’s bomb section and come out on top? if not you’re a scrub as well and playing the wrong game too.

Kain Francois.4328:

I think an update is in the works, and they’re just making sure it’s good before releasing it.

doubt it. they already explained their stance and the cof-dev implied as well that groups that can’t kill magg’s bombsection are not hardcore/dedicated/coordinated/skilled enough (take your pick) and doing it wrong – such loophole will be fixed according to colin’s post, so people have to do encounters as they are supposed to.

Kain Francois.4328:

It makes no sense for a company to shoot itself in the foot, so they obviously have some idea what they’re doing to respond.

you didn’t play TOR, did you?

if you want to do damage, spec into rifle or longbow.
if you want to support, you can spec into banners or healing shouts (latter is great).

you can melee. sometimes. while switching between range and melee every few seconds. more hassle than it’s worth tho (you WILL get downed more often, so you don’t provide anything to the group during this time, even more so when people ress you).

Daboris.6730:

afflaq is spot on.

People need to realize the difference between people being able to do it now and people being able to do it eventually. There are many types of gamers, and many types of people. When group A is done with dungeons but still doing them a group B catches up and starts them, possibly having group A stragglers left over to teach and help. They may be slower to start because of time constraints or something, but that doesn’t mean they’re worse, just not as quick.

It works like this everywhere, including that one game with a PTR where people learn the fights then teach people rather simply when the game goes live…or have addons ready to do half the fight for you.

on the problems right now is the same with raids. a lot of people don’t want to or can’t do that content. and that’s most of the time content that’s actually fun, unlike gw2. will no one do dungeons in a month? I doubt it, there will always be people who want that armor. but let’s face it, there is hardly an abundance of long-term alternatives present (besides farm for your legendary with anti-farm code). even without a sub arena wants these people to log in to buy their gems. who do you think is more p*ssed off about all the “different then reality manifestos and trailers” and more likely to look for a more entertaining game, us that do that dungeons and grind through it or the mass of people who wanted to get away from the likes of content gated by a long and/or hard grind, even more so when the grind isn’t fun?

Maximillian Greil.1965:

I think people need to look at this game as if they were video game virgins. It’s not like any other game you’ve played before. In other games you’re used to grinding for gear, you’re used to repedative easy stuff to get what you need (money, gear, items, ect.) That’s not what GW2 is about. GW2 is about alternating content so you get that full experience without the boring feeling of a grind. People are saying CoF is too hard, go do another dungeon. It’s not like there’s a shortage of them. You want CoF armor? fine, try another path. Still want to do Magg? that’s fine, get a team that works well together on vent, or in a guild or something like we used to do in GW1 for Urgoz and the Deep (before the team builds) and get it going. Alternate dungeons so it doesn’t feel like such a hassle. I’m not trying to troll anyone or anything but in all seriousness it seems like people want the game to be played the same way they’ve played every other MMO.

wow, just…wow. I hardly see someone miss the point so far.

FourthVariety.5463:

Subject Alpha is an awesome boss and if you think it is too hard, then you are missing something really elemental about this encounter. I won’t spoil it, but if you do find out, it is one of those things after which you scream how you could have died so often and miss this. Double thumbs up for Subject Alpha.

- make sure you’re evenly spread out or stack on each other
- dodge the ice aoe on the inner ring
- move out of the fire aoe
- don’t be in his front
- kill crystal
- kill tendrils if necessary

I’m sorry, but “move out of voidzones and kill his CC” is hardly awesome. ok, maybe for you, but I’ve seen plenty of it in wow/rift/tor/tsw – with a way better implementation that is. in gw2 it’s just tedious and borderline annoying, depending which route you choose.

FourthVariety.5463:

I remember a time, when ArenaNet publicly demoed the game and dungeon bosses did not have CC immunity. It was a slugfest during which no boss ever had the chance to do anything. They were just drowned in CC and died. No challenge whatsoever.

CC (blind, stunlock, cripple/chill to kite) is one thing, reduced weakness/vulnerability another. the first makes sense, the latter not.

Dragonlord.6748:

Even if I hit harder than a lvl 15 player at lvl 80 in a lvl 15 area, I will still have approximately the same amount of HP.
That HP dont last for long once you start taking hits.

you know there are other stats besides hp, right? also: not everyone is the same class as you.

Kichwas.7152:

These new dungeons are perfection – they challenge a group, and they’re not there for quickie rewards, but for the thrill ride of doing them.

This is now getting closer to what I was ‘promised’ out of their marketing material pre-launch. A game worth leaving WoW for.

Want dungeon farming, go to WoW… boring quickie dungeons you repeat 1000-times.

hf finding people with that mindset in a month when they either farmed their tokens or deemed it not worthy of their time because other parts of the game have better rewards and are more fun (if they still play that is).

you might say that you only run these dungeons casually and for the thrill – tell me how that thrill is going in a month.

zeus.5248:

4)Again like someone else suggested earler in exploring mode name the paths , for example easy-medium-hard etc… and adjust with proper rewards according to the difficulty of the path you chose with a small boost or a daily achievement if you finish all of the paths of a dungeon.

that doesn’t really work (and why I had to laugh when I read "we want to make every route equally rewarding).
what works for one group might not work for another. different groups have different compositions which makes route A easier than route B. you have different skill/gearlevels among players, so with some players route C might be easier/faster than route B etc.

people will ALWAYS find the easiest comp and fastest route which then gets run almost exclusively, and I don’t know how anyone expected anything else with the current reward scheme.

Gies.3824:

How many of you have cleared through every instance all the way up to CoF explore? You guys are jumping in towards the end of a learning curve and expecting to just breeze right through it. You should probably take a step back, get acquainted with the other some what less intensive dungeon mechanics on the lower end explorable dungeons then ease your way into the newly tuned CoF.

sorry, but what utter crap. what learning curve?

lets take a look at AC, the first explorable people will do:
kohler:
- slap an obscene amount of hp on a boss
- give said boss a one/twoshot ability
- now telegraph that move so bad it can hardly be seen, particle effects make it worse
- make the reaction window 1 sec or less
- put adds on it for more distraction

or hodgins route burrow (where speed is the key):
- can’t be hit by range
- melee is a 50/50 change to get obstructed/out of range/miss
- mobs become invulnerable because of anti-exploit mode on geometry

the only progression is that later bosses spam more obnoxious oneshots moves which are easy to miss and more bugs (hf dodging circles that are almost impossible to spot if they are even visible because “lol lets draw them under geometry”). oh, and did I mention the fun when struggling with the camera is harder than the boss/trash itself?

the only learning curve here is figuring out that most bosses have a crap design/balance/testing (so hard! so challenging! so much fun!) and how to work around it.
and sorry, but it’s just lame and tedious.
having to watch a boss for ages like a hawk because if you miss the wrong split second you’re toast gets dull fast. part of what made COF magg fun was that it wasn’t tedious and annoying like the rest (or less for some)

the only NEW mechanic here is the non-trinity and combo fields, which are nowhere explained properly (the official manual has TWO sentences about it, and not everybody is in the mood to do a /wiki combo when he wants to play)

if you want see how fun bosses are actually done and moves are telegraphed properly while still providing a challenge, watch some videos of the TSW dungeons.

Gies.3824:

All of these dungeons can be done without graveyard zerging, it just seems that no one wants to work up to it.

COE frontgate route subject alpha last stage, put it on youtube how you do it without using waypoints. I’m waiting.

D W.5179:

I very much look forward to seeing what sort of middle-ground the developers come up with, assuming we are not going to stick with the current system that appears to have upset many (although 14 pages isn’t much considering the size of the community). Maybe it’s just wishful thinking, but please (ANet) consider some of the thoughtful suggestions that have been made.

well, given the fact there was an extended beta period, the tone of the official posts and how it was handled in gw1 – don’t get your hopes up.

another thing: THIS thread has 14 pages. they closed a lot of other threads and directed people here.

the ones in secret world.

oh wait, you meant in gw2? I thought you were talking about fun…

Qahlel.3805:

To all those giving examples from GW1:

• This is not GW1. this was not intended to be “only” for the people who had played GW1. So, stop with your GW1 analogies and examples. they make no sense.
• More than half of current GW2 accounts have never played nor heard -till this game- about GW1.
• GW1 is an obsolete game.
• We don’t want GW2 to be obsolete as well.

you truly sound like someone who never actually played gw1, so doesn’t get what people are talking about.

fact is, gw1 had a more “revolutionary” endgame than this. and no, don’t even start with “b-b-but gw2 is only 3 weeks old”. that would be remotely valid if it was a newbie devstudio. remotely.

example? almost nothing was bound and could be traded (unless you specifically bound it to one of your chars thus making it untradeable). yes there was grind, yes there were only cosmetics to get, but HOW you get said cosmetics was entirely up to you (use ingame money to buy the mats, get the mats yourself, get other items to trade for mats/the item.. you should be able to get the picture).

that freedom of choice is doesn’t even exist as a shadow in gw2.

bluebacker.8679:

IF this turns out to be wildly unpopular then ANet will rethink the change.

nah, they won’t.

but if they suddenly see a major drop in gem purchases they might.

Spoolooni.6712:

Obviously you haven’t played the higher end dungeons where the closest waypoint is ridiculously placed 50 seconds apart w/o speed buff. Also, with dungeons that already work a player through sweat and dirt, walking an extra mile more than a few times is absurdly stupid, especially for a purely damage-built character.

yeah, I’d love to see the OP do subject alpha last stage after his suggestion made it live.

he also doesn’t seem to know that once enough players die at once the boss resets because he loses aggro.

Hermod.2643:

I much rather lose over and over

with that change you will. wanna bet how fast you’ll be back here asking to roll it back?

Kurzick.6375:

Gray.9650:

Kurzick.6375:

14 pages and counting with a 85% negative feedback and fyi the people not voicing out their opinions here are not the ones enjoying the game right now they are the ones who don’t care to put any effort and go to the forums.

I agree with the majority of your post, but please don’t assume everybody who posts here is just a whiner. all the suggestions and feedback alone should tell you otherwise. a lot of people want to improve the game and to succeed. they even come here to post about it – how much more effort can you put in?

I think you didn’t get what i was trying to say

I am saying that the people that are NOT posting in the forums which means NOT here voicing out their opinions are the ones who do not care for the game

And the ones that are here that is posting are the ones who do care and majority of them have a negative feedback to the current changes

ah, then I got it wrong.

my bad, sorry.

souldonkey.9534:

And running the dungeons isn’t pointless. You won’t lose money if you don’t die, so up your skill level and you’ll be fine. run story modes until you’re good enough to run exploration modes. That’s how the system is supposed to work. And you’re not supposed to get rich from chaining dungeons. There are plenty of other more efficient ways of making coin in this game, go do that if you want more money.

If it’s so unacceptable go play something else. I like it the way it is so I’m going to continue to play and and hope they don’t reverse their changes. Just as I’m free to do that you’re free to leave and play another game if this is not enjoyable to you.

it’s pointless if you think it’s pointless and you’d rather do something else for entertainment. I know several people in my guild who would love to do a dungeon, but think it’s pointless in their current state because it’s no fun.
and you’re wrong about the money part, even a.net said dungeons are supposed to be one way to get money. right now, even without dying, it’s not even an alternative compared to others – till these are nerfed.

and while I get the notion “well, just leave” – that’s a very dangerous sentiment. people in TOR said the same, look how that turned out. not saying gw2 is on tor’s level (yet), but it’s still a mmo. if in 2-3 months half the servers are ghost towns because no one bothers to log in anymore, you still might have fun doing the dungeons with your guild. but even you will feel the effect if suddenly a.net’s financial projections are not met and it influences content updates and expansions.

just my 2 cents.

Kurzick.6375:

14 pages and counting with a 85% negative feedback and fyi the people not voicing out their opinions here are not the ones enjoying the game right now they are the ones who don’t care to put any effort and go to the forums.

I agree with the majority of your post, but please don’t assume everybody who posts here is just a whiner. all the suggestions and feedback alone should tell you otherwise. a lot of people want to improve the game and to succeed. they even come here to post about it – how much more effort can you put in?

Anon.3041:

No game developer wants to create content that ppl dont play. But ANET just did that. IT sounds to me that ANET thinks that 1% of the player base will be paying for the time spent on creating these dungeons in future expansion. We all know thats not the case.

Orissa.1872:

Here are few solutions which came to my mind today
Basically dungeon paths should be either euqal or completely varied (difficulty and average time)

I guess the idea behind the current implementation that people that want the max amount of tokens do all the routes (3x 30 tokens for all routes). but with the current state people prefer to rather run the same route twice even with diminished rewards than do the whole dungeon (that alone should tell the devs something)

imho more currency/different rewars or some label for different routes would be more work than it’s worth (difficulty is subjective, and a.net’s balancing was always wonky. labels won’t fix that).

right now the major complains are
1. not fun
2. too long
3. not rewarding

1: fun is relative, but there is stuff that’s repeated quite often: dull trash, high hp, buggy/bad/unclear boss mechanic – fixing that should ease some of the concern
2: should be fixed with less trash/less hp
3: the main problem. people do all kinds of stuff if they feel rewarded in the end. right now the blues/greens chests have no value (you could put the vendor money in the chest with the same effect), and even if the real reward are the tokens it’s too far between armor parts or what you grind for to make it seem “rewarding”.
chests can easily be fixed by putting a properly scaled (no lvl74 when I’m 80, thx) rare in there, maybe with a unique skin. have a way to reuse the blues/greens in the forge to make a higher tier or a special item which requires stuff from every route etc (sth that resembles the uniques from gw1)

token armor cost is too high, I suggested in another post to remove the runes only a certain number of playes won’t exchange anyway, reduce the price per item, put the runes on the vendor separately (so players who want them run the dungeon), that should help with the notion “I have to farm X times to get item Y”).

another idea would be to allow the exchange of 90 tokens per day (from one dungeon token to another). 90 is the max you can get for a full run, so there is at least some incentive to do another dungeon. some will choose to do the 3 easiest routes in other dungeons, or farm them repeatedly in the same route, in the end people have more choices which dungeon to run and more people run different dungeons/routes, which would mix with the people that farm these dungeons for their armor asf.

Renegade.6325:

There are surely plenty of people enjoying these dungeons in silence. They go in with their friends, they play well, they get loot and they move on. At no point in that chain of events would they consider going to the forums to express their opinions; certainly not in the same vein that droves of complainers do. There is no compulsion to say thank you, or admire good work from developers, in the same regard as there is to cry and whine of difficulty and lack of rewards.

From my own personal experience, I hugely enjoy ascalon explorable.

and you also have people who dislike them and have no fun and don’t bother with the forums (statement from a guildmate during a arah run today: “suddenly coe seems like fun”).

yes, you get more negative feedback in the forums because players want to vent and offer their opinion to improve the game, nothing new. assuming that all the haters are here and all the happy players are in the game tho is naive.
you also don’t see many positives because in the end a certain level is EXPECTED. some might call that entitled, but people paid money for it and expect sth in return. if these exceptions are not met, they come here (I’m not saying every expectation is valid or should be met, but you get the idea). if you only see a majority of positive/negative threads, you know somethings wrong.

as for ascalon: it’s still one of the better ones of the bunch. but some of the issues you can already see there:
- bad difficulty progression (compare SM/EM, and consider the fact it’s the first dungeon people will see)
- bad rewards (lvl60, really?),
- bad design (kholers 1sec almost invisible oneshot move as an example whats wrong with boss moves and how they’re telegraphed)
- stupid trash (yes, please more champs and elites that are just dull)
- bugs (burrows on the hodgins route that can’t be hit by ranged, even going melee doesn’t work reliably; mobs getting into anti-exploit on the table/chairs).

and that’s just the stuff from the top of my head.

Narhim.7345:

For me honestly the dungeon designer did his job very bad and should have designed the dungeon in a better and more challenging way!

well, lets be honest here, bad work looks different. the problem is that there are already errors/shortcomings in the basic design that need to be fixed first.

- voidzones hard to see sometimes not visible at all (fixed with solid filled area – there’S a reason other games do it this way)
- moves (especially oneshots with <1 sec reaction time) need to be properly telegraphed with sound and even in chat
- above points become even more necessary if they don’t include an option to reduce the amount of particle effects
- better mechanics
- bosses and especially trash with obscene amounts of hp are not hard or challenging, just tedious
- less trash, sometimes it’s like “orr: the instance”
- and kitten FIX THESTUPID BUGS. having mobs get in to anti exploit or stuff hitting you because of netcode/poor implementation or being unable to hit with range or even melee (ac burrows say hello) is crap design.

Chilsung.3710:

3. Final Boss encounter isn’t threatening.

3. I made the fireballs hurt more. Not greatly more – they’ll do about 3-4k damage to a DPS focused player, but you should have anywhere between 15k-25k HP, so there’s a bit of wiggle room for error.

To tell the truth this fight still feels like a joke. At no point before or after the change did I feel at all threatened. You can basically run around casually and the encounter can last indefinitely because nothing will actually attack you.

I agree with your post, but imho not every boss needs split second reaction and raid-level coordination. put up a stacking aoe the more acolytes are up. or reflective shield for the core. there are plenty of ways to make it mechanically more challenging and interesting than. “slap a higher number and more mobs on it”

was COF pre-nerf too short? maybe, 10-15 more minutes wouldn’t have hurt. fixing the lava section alone should have added some more time. but I don’t know what all the changes + nerfed reward were supposed to accomplish

Efaicia.3672:

@Hellkaiser, the genre CANNOT evolve into something else with constant complaining from the player base when something isn’t how they ’are used to it being" Nor can it evolve past the holy trinity when people insist on making “tanky” or “healy” builds and trying to force it to be a holy trinity instead of learning what Arenanet has actually done.. No class combo is required I play regularly with a thief, he does well shrug he barely had a bill after last nights escapades.

wat? holy trinity doesn’t mean everybody can go class cannon and succeed. you still need specialized specs with a focus on healing and offer protection. also don’t get hung up too much on that “evolved”. guild wars 1 had a more evolved endgame than this. this is vanilla wow “farm scholo/strat” level.

Efaicia.3672:

@Gray There is conent in abundance for ALL play styles and types. ALL PLAY STYLES AND TYPES. you are demanding they take the content made specificlly for “hard-core” “elite” with well organized groups available to all because “they paid for it too” You know what that is called, right? Don’t even get me started with the “entitlement generation”

this just shows you still don’t get the point. this is about dungeons, how they were in games people are coming from, and what they expect from them. no one said ANYTHING about having only one difficulty for all dungeons. you can absolutely have easy and challenging dungeons at the same time, which can offer rewards in tune with their difficulty/time investment. if you are unable to even acknowledge this, this discussion is moot.

as for content “in abundance”: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/
lets have a look, shall we? what is their endgame?
- dungeons (only for the elite)
- meta events per zone (how often can you do these for some green/blues before it gets dull?
- 100% world completion (that SURE is exciting on the second char)
- story (which becomes almost the same after level 30)
besides that we got
- playing the TP
- farming which gets hampered more and more
- getting a legendary, which is tied to farming.

if you think that is abundance, I honestly don’t want to know what your definition of scarcity is. so far the only thing remotely having any long term appeal to keep people busy pve-wise are dungeons. just like every other mmo before and after gw2. who would’ve known.

do you NOW get why it’s a bad idea to keep dungeon to a tiny fraction of the playerbase only?

Efaicia.3672:

I personaly enjoy the dungeons. I have crap gear, I rarely die..HMMMM. Gear must not be uber important here….

come back when you did more than AC/CM and COF magg pre nerf.

Efaicia.3672:

So you are trying to say they have no choice if they want to keep players, they MUST be and do things like WoW and the hundreds of failed games who also tried to emulate it? Yes, lets do that!!

did you even read the last paragraph? or do you go immediately “he doesn’t want hard content for everybody HE MUST ME A WOWBABBY WHO WANTS WELFARE LEGENDARYS”

the point is you offer content for as much possible demographics as you can. there are people that want hard content, but want to be rewarded properly for it, such as there are people that have no problem aoe-grinding a dungeon if it takes three times as long. making dungeons hard AND long, and any other option pointless or nerfing it to the ground makes only a minuscule percentage of players happy. and a.net neither because the unhappy rest won’t buy gems.

it’s not rocket science.

Tristanian.6084:

Don’t even get me started on combo fields, finishers and their proper usage.

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/manual/combat/combo-attacks/

wait, that’s not enough explanation? well, you can always /wiki combo, but how many people know about the wiki or even the command, let alone want to research stuff on their own?

tbh the introductions to new mechanics like combos (which according to colin are essential to beating dungeons) is – sorry to be so blunt –kitten poor. and the mechanics copied from other games are implemented mediocre. I mean you do the story modes with npcs (which are useless most of the time, but that’s another topic), how hard could it be to explain at least some moves as an introduction? did really no one with their collective dev experience thought of this?

and there is a reason you have voidzones in a different color area and not just a ring that’s easy to miss (if it’s visible at all) or special oneshot moves by bosses that have a 1 second timer and are impossible to see in that cluster of particles.
fighting while watching the boss like a hawk for the easy to miss move is hardly “hard” or “challenging” – just tedious.
and dumping high-hp trash inbetween which is just dull to fight is hardly revolutionary.

Efaicia.3672:

Anet themsleves have explained many, many times how dungeons are for elite, well orginized, and very coordinated groups ONLY.

that might work on paper. because in the end a.net is after the gem purchases – and who do you think buys them? the elite that grinds their armor, or the casuals (no offense) who want an easy way out?

they also sold gw2 as an mmo without grind, which brought a LOT of people in.
what people fail to realize: you will always have grind in an mmo.
what a.net failed to realize: if you sell your game as an mmo there are certain expectations associated with it (or they did, given the blog posts and trailers that have nothing to do with the final game)
a lot of said people that were attracted to gw2 are from a post-wow generation, they EXPECT dungeon runs for their armor. getting slapped in the face “no, this is not for you – you better farm your stuff elsewhere, but beware of the anti-farm mechanic and the diminishing returns!” will hardly put them in the mood to keep playing.
also if you want to gate content to keep people playing in a mmo you have two choices:
- gate it by time (lockouts, grinds, the works)
- gate it by challenge
using both at the same time majorly reduces the number of said people doing content and chasing the carrot. and as mentioned above, they WANT people to play, the longer the better because the more and longer people play the probability of gem purchases rises. just because there’s no sub doesn’t mean they aren’t after your money.

don’t get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem with difficult content, quite the contrary, and I always said if you provide a challenge people will rise to it.
but I expect that content and everything revolving around it to be properly done.

Rislod.7120:

Flame Legion exotic set : 20g 9s
General exotic set : 21g

you can not value cosmetic armor in money, since looks are subjective.
another thing is you forget the rune. people going for the look of the armor don’t necessarily need a rune of the baelfire in every piece (so the cost to replace that rune comes on top).

I still don’t know why dungeon armor (the prestige armor of gw2) has upgrades already set, when gw1 had none. don’t forget, said runes are probably calculated into the token cost, so removing them and selling the armor as is – without upgrades – would also make them cheaper. plus a certain percentage of players will exchange them anyway.
of course you can always argue that the more people are forced to spend money the more it hurts thus buying gems becomes more attractive. or black lion salvage kits to get said upgrades.

what they should do:

• remove the runes from every dungeon armor (and maybe orr)
• slash prices accordingly (players get their stuff sooner, it feels less of grind – isn’t that the goal?)
• sell the runes separately from the same vendors (added incentive for people to run the dungeons if they just want the runes – haven’t checked if a crafter can craft the same runes as in the armor, that shouldn’t overlap imho, but debatable)
• this offers an additional choice, and choice is always good!

there, suddenly the dungeon armor is a sidegrade only; some might say: “oh noes, people won’t run dungeon then!” – eff that, plenty of people dumped loadsa money into prestige armor in gw1. it was half the endgame and worked with perfectly without the need to resort to 2004 grind mechanics (join the mmo revolution my behind) to keep people playing and buying gems.

because right now their whole reward mechanic is a mess. I’m sure there’s a concept behind it somewhere (I hope), but if it’s only to push people to buy gems, it’s a failed concept (it probably does work financially; like d3 did for blizzard).

darkehawke.1269:

well done for increasing the Funcom levels in GW2

eh, I wish. the dungeons in TSW are miles ahead the ones in gw2

BillFreist.1527:

If you guys are still hitting this issue on the Enchanted Bow skill challenge, this is because the fix didn’t make it into tonight’s build . We have the fix and will put it into our next build, which hopefully will be sooner than later.

you guys REALLY need to work on your patchnotes. “fixed some events” can mean anything. it becomes quite annoying reading that, then porting somewhere only to see stuff is STILL bugged (straits event, OPs skill challenge asf)

Sad Swordfish.9743:

Well it’s an MMO, it’s supposed to go on forever. But I am not sure about that. First of all because I know of no MMO that is truly fun and meaningful after reaching it’s end game.

stopped reading right there

first of all, if you label your product with a specific term to generate more sales, you better deliver on what that label implies

furthermore, just because YOU find the endgame in the typical mmos not fun doesn’t mean someone else can’t like it. there are plenty of people still playing wow – and even daoc is still running. repeating stuff that people spout after they fell for the hype and have buyers remorse and/or simply didn’t like the game don’t help your argument.

as for the nostalgia, that could fill a whole thread alone. let’s just say the fact that there IS nostalgia related to these games says something. for the rest it’s probably suffice to say “you should have been there”.

frostgorge, at least there the events and skill challenges work.

JonPeters.5630:

We also reduced the rewards of completing story mode, once you have already completed it, because the rewards for story mode were never intended to be a high as they were.

so you want to say players who haven’t done story modes yet will have even more fun to find other people to do it since there is even less incentive to do it twice?

that “rewards never intended to be as high” is a nice theory, but not with the current state of story modes.

red.2387:

Despite the fact that I disagree with their entire philosophy regarding dungeon design, stopping rampant inflation due to speed dungeon grinding was a matter that needed to be addressed immediately.

Making dungeons actually fun and rewarding should be addressed as soon as possible however.

so your suggestion is to buy gems to get that cultural armor in any feasible time? oh, and of course farm more gold or lay down some cash for fine trans stones since the cultural armor is not even exotic although it costs more than a commander book.

and it was never about the money – you could farm more money solo in the same time. people want to do dungeons, they want cool armor. god beware they choose the fastest/easiest way.

Fay.2735:

The story mode is for the casuals and if you find those too hard then… well… I’m afraid to say you or the group you’re in are below average gamers/casuals unless you have some bad luck with a bad pug. You might have to either practice some more, find a better group or it’s just not for you.

assumptions assumptions…

I also don’t know if we’re talking about the same game, but story mode is neither of the difficulty nor reward scale of casuals. so I guess you’re talking out of the first 3 letters from your assumptions.

Ruien.9506:

These dungeons are not hard. People just aren’t trying hard enough.

so this must be easy for you as well, right? since someone else’ 9 yo can do it, so can you – else you’re just not trying hard enough!

kittenh.9548:

and was made to take longer (which it needed)
You should never be able to complete a dungeon on explorable mode in 20 minutes, and I for one am ridiculously glad ANet have fixed this.

and that’s where you’re wrong. a dungeon can take 5 minutes if the reward is appropriate. which wasn’t the case here. buffing length, difficulty AND reducing rewards is overkill.

Crucifer.2831:

Total Gold investment for end-game gear (Not including Legendaries):

116 gold

CoF by itself will only cover 24 gold of that. Not including repairs / items.

As well as not including maxing professions.

Do you think this really needed a Buff.

seems not enough people we buying gems for cash.

Capricornus.6157:

Causal ppls can FORGET about makin any instance

haven’t you heard? they’re not for casuals in the first place.

Gargojl.8713:

I’m just disgusted how many gamers in these threads only know how to spit anger and rage when a few pixels were denied.

and I’m sad that some people still don’t get the point of the debate. c’est la vie.

Andry.2563:

We should have a discussion about where you want dungeons to be

there is no discussion: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Do-NOT-nerf-please/first#post126835

actually, with the current state of dungeons you don’t want a dungeon finder. trust me.

Massacrul.2016:

@Spawn

Or they should maybe add limits like this 1:

— You can farm this dungeon explorable mode maximum 5 times a day, counter resets everyday at 0:00am GMT+1

This should fix some issues aswell.

And i will say it once more – changes were needed, but they made it completety wrong way, only making everything way worse.

you never put a “hard” limit on possible content. some players will always find alternatives to what it was supposed to “fix”, other players will be put off by it (unhappy player -> stops playing -> one less person to buy gems). in the end it hurts more than just reducing rewards over time (which is still a stupid concept)

Gargojl.8713:

And there I was thinking GW2 is played by people who don’t care about pixels but FUN only.

too bad COF magg is now as un-fun as the rest.

Germs.4125:

It does not help the fact that when you post a legitimate concern about something which will turn a large portion of the player base away, the fanboys immediately come rushing in to defend anything that happened.

well, fanbois being fanbois. and it worked so well the last time (pic related)

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

@Gray: It’s true that you do not NEED to grind to excel in the game. Because you do not depend on grind to get the best stats. You do have to grind if you want better looking stuff, but that is COSMETIC ONLY. That is the difference that they advertised with.

you don’t need to grind for stats, true. nonetheless, the basic formula of progress is still there (offer sth worthy to get) – and it’s still a grind.

don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind grind and absolutely expected it contrary to their PR-speech. however claiming there is no grind is just naive.

on a sidenote, they never excluded it “for cosmetics only” in advertisments. people who played gw1 knew what to expect, but you have a lot of people here now who believed the mmo-manifesto trailer, blog posts and the hype although they should have know better.
of course having a completely effed up reward system doesn’t help either.

Gempulse.9463:

Gray.9650:

Kerigolas.8263:

You do NOT have to grind, you do NOT NEED that dungeon armor. If you want it, than take you time. Do each path (of the corresponding dungeon) once a day or do just one path. You will get to your armor eventually and also you get to ENJOY THE GAME!!!!!

1: hey, have you heard? gw2 has no grind at all!
2: hu? how? where’d you get gear?
1: that’s the cool thing, you can get stat-capped pretty easily and fast
2: so what’s the longterm goal? what’s that carrot to chase?
1: armor with a different looks! cool eh?
2: hm. how do you get that armor?
1: well, you do instances and get rewarded tokens which you can trade in
2: sound nice, how many do you need?
1: given you find a group to do these instances, and you successfully complete them you’ll run them around 50 times for the armor only
2: so you’re telling me they just switched the rewards but you still grind for it?
1: eh… hmm.. … yeah

Except you can get the best armor by crafting it, which is actually quite easy.

someone didn’t get the point…

Kerigolas.8263:

You do NOT have to grind, you do NOT NEED that dungeon armor. If you want it, than take you time. Do each path (of the corresponding dungeon) once a day or do just one path. You will get to your armor eventually and also you get to ENJOY THE GAME!!!!!

1: hey, have you heard? gw2 has no grind at all!
2: hu? how? where’d you get gear?
1: that’s the cool thing, you can get stat-capped pretty easily and fast
2: so what’s the longterm goal? what’s that carrot to chase?
1: armor with different looks! cool eh?
2: hm. how do you get that armor?
1: well, you do instances and get rewarded tokens which you can trade in
2: sound nice, how many do you need?
1: given you find a group to do these instances, and you successfully complete them you’ll run them around 50 times for the armor only
2: so you’re telling me they just switched the rewards but you still grind for it?
1: eh… hmm.. … yeah