Guild Wars 2

Tera GX.8149:

Do keep in mind that this change isn’t the whole of all changes. The need for a Janurary patch combined with all the things that had to be done I suppose is why this incomplete state is the result. A quote I just fetched for a different topic but still relevant here:

then kitten you change it when the rest is ready as well! this isn’t the first time we end up with a kitten change because they only a part was implemented and the final change is weeks if not months away. and then on one hand you hear about the “fast and rapid iterative development process” and actual, meaningful changes appear when? but what to expect from devs that after 8 years still have problems putting together patchnotes…

as for the whole metrics OP is talking about, we all know anet always uses common sense when interpreting these numbers, right? seems people forgot all the lovely changes after the COF2 exploits

Koga.7215:

This is now changed and people will need to L2P or not run dung anymore if they are not willing to learn.

ah, the l2p or gtfo argument. because that always works, right?

Asagi.1405:

The reason GW1 succeeded is because it was NOT WoW.

it also has no shop (or rather very limited). imagine how it would’ve looked like with shop & gems…

BurnedToast.3781:

See, if they let you do anything right from the start, some people would finish everything in week and complain. They can’t have that.

theoretically you can, since gw2 has no sub (and its main point is too keep you playing for a longer time).

but who would buy gems then, right? I’m still glad people are happy gw2 has no sub…

Ryltair.2857:

They’re not a very good representation of how the game is

they actually are. there are stilly buggy events/hearts all over the place (when was the release again?)

crafting is like other games, if you don’t enjoy it there you won’t enjoy it here. same for exploration etc. personal story as well is highly subjective, I yet have to find someone who enjoys the orr part. but as I said, subjective, so you might like it.

if anything, the event shows how anet handles the game. take from that what you will.

the point is not if it’s harder/easier, the point is to have you grind longer. so you hit the limit difficulty wise but don’t have the drops yet? keep farming. skill doesn’t matter at that point.

revolutionary mmo they said.

are we so far that we actually cheer for fixes of stuff that should work in the first place?

“outstanding work!” – copy&paste events, fluff some text into it and don’t give a crap if it works or not (by now they should able to know what works and what not).

But even very good coders have bugs in their initial code,

events bugging out when they don’t scale and the 50 people around it kill the npc in a millisecond is simply poor design, no matter how good your code is. not to mention half the bugged events are bugged in the same way some normal ones STILL ARE

sorry, but implementing stuff and believing they’ll work is just sad. and we’re not talking about stuff that can be fixed over days/weeks later, we’re talking about ONE TIME events here. If you want to do something like that you do it in a way where you KNOW it works, and not turn into a gamble

even if you didn’t play rift, it should’ve been obvious after mad king that doing an even in LA was recipe for disaster.

sure, all these mobs running around spawning other mobs and 10 times the stuff going on compared to MK will SURELY work out…

Pandemoniac.4739:

Here’s some snippets from the Code of Conduct you might have missed.

Forum moderators have full discretion to address any behavior that they feel is inappropriate. Your membership and participation in these forums is a privilege and not a right. ArenaNet reserves the right to suspend or terminate your access to these forums and/or to the game itself at any time for reasons that include, but are not necessarily limited to, your failure to abide by this Code of Conduct.

All forum content is permitted or removed at the discretion of ArenaNet.

We welcome your suggestions and feedback on how to make this a better place for players with customer support concerns. Please send an email to forums@arena.net, and we will be pleased to review it. Due to the volume of mail we receive, we cannot answer every email, but we read everything.

(emphasis mine)

too bad that mail doesn’t work.

<forums@arena.net.>:
64.25.42.38does_not_like_recipient./Remote_host_said:_501_5.5.2_RCPT_TO_syntax_error/Giving_up_on_64.25.42.38./_

it’s easy to point people towards the complaint counter when that counter is permanently on lunchbreak.

but hey, it was to be expected, given the state of their forum is still as bad as at launch (and they even like to give you infractions for doubleposts you can’t delete, another proof overall poor moderation).

inb4 it gets deleted, but as you said “they read everything”.

Snorehax.1904:

To successfully implement that style of system you would have to tinker with the dungeons to even coax people into them (WoW uses mounts/achievements/titles – particularly for the number of different ways, speeds, and styles to kill bosses). You would have to redevelop the dungeons thoroughly to prevent speed running and exploitation and provide better incentives.

and that’s the whole point. you either let people choose their fun and reward them over time or create content so shallow to you have to “coax” them to run the same boring content over and over. because in the end you either have a lot of people happily playing and be entertained or people go “thank god I’m done with this crap won’t touch it again with a 10-foot pole” – which, considering the fact people depend on others wanting to do dungeons (can’t do it alone, can you?), which do you think is the better solution long term?

even without a sub my time is still too precious for grinding un-fun content for hours for pixels. If I wanted to do THAT there are plenty of sub based game that do that far better. (inb4 “wahwah you only want easy mode with instant rewards”. wrong. read again).

if there would be alternatives a lot less people wouldn’t care about dungeons and how bad/good/long/fun they are. it’s like trying to market one single product to 4 different demographics at once where 3 don’t need/want it instead of adapting it to each. fact is anet wants people to play so they buy gems. besides dungeongrind there is hardly anything to do on 80.
dungeons are just another indicator that they lost the ability to design an engaging endgame after gw1.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Pretty pixel kept GW1 alive for 7 years…. I think they know what they are doing.

comparing gw1 to comparing gw2 is recipe for fail, it had a different and more open progression.

so, a system with the complete opposite to the one in gw2 which kept a game alive for several years – isn’t that the exact opposite of your argument?

I know, but don’t forget gem price is rising steadily.

don’t get me wrong, I don’t think their sole intention was to force you to invest in fine trans stones (you can also can get them via chests/keys you get via drops, but that’s again depends on your luck). it probably is a tiny part of it tho – people forget way to soon that anet wants people to buy gems. a little “nagging” gameplay wise to make it more attractive is one way to achieve that.

like I said separating skins from actual armor would boost crafters, reduce the price (atm it’s look + stats + rune) and put a larger focus on the look, while making other dungeons attractive to run as well (run dungeon A for the look and dungeon B for the rune). it would also “fix” the cultural T3 being rare and fix OPs problem.

they already expect people to figure out their dungeons and coordination by themselves, I think people that do that manage to get an armor from a crafter just fine (before someone argues it’s to complicated).

dungeon sets are for skins not stats use a transmog stone that is what they want you to do

if that was really the intention they could easily put the armor up like hom-items and buy the rune extra. that would even boost crafters and remove some of the crafting mats rotting in the TP.
but right know it’s obvious it’s another sink to make you buy fine trans stones. good thing this game has no sub, right?

If mobs had less health, players would breeze through every dungeon in 15 minutes. In the absence of boss mechanics to make the fights entertaining and diverse, bosses still need 5-10 minutes each simply to give the dungeon length.

tbh I don’t mind 15 minute dungeons, just scale the reward accordingly. spending hours in an instance is hardly entertaining. If I want to spend 2 hours doing 8 dungeons a 15 minutes that should be my decision.

oulivas.9471:

To get the BEST stuff, you need to work for it.

The only thing that ANet could change, an easy way to get a percursor.

sigh no ones complains that it’s hard to get, just how luck dependent or daily time investment it is to get a PRECURSOR (not even the legendary itself).

Parisalchuk.9230:

Gray.9650:

I have yet to see anyone on these forums give an actual logical reason why random drop is better than the system now.

because almost everything is better than running the same dungeon over and over. as I said random is not bad when done right. for example tradeable also means sellable. If I can’t or don’t want to find someone to trade, I just sell it – and buy the thing I want in return. which also opens other possibilities to get said item, by doing stuff that is subjectively more fun than running the same dungeon over and over and over. random drop + tradeable also means you don’t come in contact with the RNG if you don’t want to if you just buy/trade the item. the progression is more or less fixed like with a token system while offering much more choice inbetween.

and before someone comes up with “b-b-but the armor is an achievement!” – yeah right, the achievement you spend X hours in an instance.
the mentioned system worked fine in gw1, it even added longevity to the game buy not shoehorning players into content they don’t want to do and burning them out.

So you basically are saying that you want dungeons to be farmable so that you can make money to buy things from other areas that you want. That is not at all the point of dungeons…..

Yes, the armor and weapons are a symbol that you have completed an area the exact same way that in GW1 you had to complete portions of FoW in order to get Obi Armor and you couldnt get faction armor without having specific ranks regardless of if you purchased everything to create it.

Honestly this just sounds like people want Arah armor with only putting in the effort to clear AC.

actually they are, even a devpost said so. they are meant to be “fun” (ymmv), “no grind” (take that as you will) and an equally good source of money. if that’s not the point of dungeons, what is it? the “I did this dungeon 50+ times” badge in form of a special armor? funny that people ran dungeons in gw1 without that crutch.

obsidian didn’t require repeated runs over and over if you didn’t want to, rank was only required for some armor and even then hardly an issue.

and btw, “waaah someone disagrees this must mean he wants easy stuff” hardly helps your argument. especially when you imply that the current system is an improvement to gw1.

I have yet to see anyone on these forums give an actual logical reason why random drop is better than the system now.

because almost everything is better than running the same dungeon over and over. as I said random is not bad when done right. for example tradeable also means sellable. If I can’t or don’t want to find someone to trade, I just sell it – and buy the thing I want in return. which also opens other possibilities to get said item, by doing stuff that is subjectively more fun than running the same dungeon over and over and over. random drop + tradeable also means you don’t come in contact with the RNG if you don’t want to if you just buy/trade the item. the progression is more or less fixed like with a token system while offering much more choice inbetween.

and before someone comes up with “b-b-but the armor is an achievement!” – yeah right, the achievement you spend X hours in an instance.
the mentioned system worked fine in gw1, it even added longevity to the game buy not shoehorning players into content they don’t want to do and burning them out.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Becasue that kind of gameplay was “grindy”, and people was harrassing a dungeon hoping (praying) for weeks a drop. Now is a matter of master a dungeon, not grind 1000 times until your set drops and is complete. Is it better? Billion times.

don’t forget you can simply BUY the stuff from other players. no need to grind DOA for tormentor weapons if you don’t like DOA – you could do what you wanted and get the money/drops/whatever to trade the armbrace or get the mats for the armor, which made the game feel way less grindy.

grinding the same dungeon over and over for armor/weapons/gifts is the complete opposite of that concept.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Any system that is purely based on drops would be a system that I would not play (a system that I see suggested a lot). I would not waste my time doing something that already give meager rewards for a chance of getting an item that I wanted or could use.

drop only system isn’t bad if you can trade stuff. no one likes being stuck with stuff he can’t use which makes the time spend to get it feel pretty pointless. but if you can trade the light boots with the necro in your group who got the heavy boots…. (which then again would require an actual trading function, not “I send you mine and might not get anything in return”).
given the dropchance is sane enough and the loottable small enough to not drop different crap every run.

in the end a drop based system isn’t bad if properly integrated

nosleepdemon.1368:

300g is certainly not obtainable via world drops imo, you really need to have a grasp on the game’s economy to pull that much money off.

it’s 300g now. by the time the players that want to go for it reach 300g, the price will probably be 500g-600g.

Revenant.2691:

a lot fewer new players coming in and crafting low to mid-level armor, while the high-level players are already mostly 80 with full exotics with only legendaries to look forward to.

tbh that was to be expected, everyone who thought else is incredibly naive. there are simply too many low/mid tier crafting mats available with no real use, and I doubt a temporary recipe will fix it, especially wood.
and the situation will only get worse the longer the game runs, temp recipes only make a slight dent, and every new permanent recipe worthwhile for 80s will either need an obscene amount of mats to make a difference (hf if you’re new or behind the curve) and/or good enough rewards people will go for it (which maybe/probably screws with other aspects of the game).

Joey.3928:

It was like getting Obsidian armor in GW1. It took awhile to get, but there was nothing different about it outside of appearance.

different game, different progression. if I wanted I could just BUY the stuff for obsidian armor, hardly comparable to a legendary which requires both an insane amount of grind AND RNG (hf grinding more if you want to circumenvent the RNG, see first paragraph).

Then they could make karma and exploration account wide too, two things that really aren’t so favourable to alt players.

exploration is needed for the rewards and especially gifts of exploration. agree on the karma tho, having that character based is incredibly annoying (obs shards are already account bound, as is some of the few useful things you can still buy with it – yes, the weaponsmith nerf sucks).

Agree, In fact I risk being a broken record on the subject. One problem is that they can’t be more aggressive with downscaling since casual players, who haven’t necessarily learned movement skills too well, need to be overlevel in order to be able to do some of the content.

where would you need movement skills in lower-lvl areas? most mobs hardly do anything special and if you can easily bruteforce your way through with pure damage.

which then leads to decreased rewards due to less “challenge”, which then in turn makes everything but the cursed shore karmatrain unrewarding.

so if you done the 100% with one char there is really no reason to do anything else (thanks to crappy reward/time ratio thanks to pure grind required).

forcing people to do sth else is what the OP is talking about. you need over a million karma for your legendary, which even with CS karmatrain takes a while. telling people “that’s enough, now do something else” will surely help the game in the long run, especially when “something else” is another game.

Who cares? They are NOT necessary to be on the top competitively wise in this game. Exotics weapons are just as good.

so they buy the personally better looking exotics, play a few weeks then play something else. awesome long-term goal.

gee, I wonder how many of those playing something else will buy gems for gw2.

Serenity.9726:

My logic is simple. Having an universal token system will have the effect of making all but the easiest dungeon ghost towns. After all, who’d want to spend 2 hours pugging through Arah when you can clear AC in 30min?

definitely. humans are humans after all. and that’s why imho they majorly screwed up endgame “progression”, especially with all that “non-grind” thrown around before launch.

there are much better ways to dangle a carrot in front of players than “run arah enough times for 1400 tokens to show of your leet armor!11! in LA” – and even that is subjective. in the end all it shows he spend enough time in the dungeon. it’s says nothing about his skill. the only achievement is the time spend to grind out the tokens.

it’s the complete opposite of gw1 and the 2007 version of the tedious instancegrind you have in other mmos (don’t forget, gw2 is a revolution).

you can’t tell me they didn’t thought about different concepts during design, and then couldn’t come up with anything better (or couldn’t be bothered, take your pick), which is just sad.

It’s like 6-8 seconds. I agree it should be a little longer, but it’s not -that- bad. Using a safe spot is lazy.

safe != lazy. why do something extra which is more prone to error (= repair costs and walking time) than shooting him when the shield is down?

To me, the difficulty feels artificially jacked up instead of an honest challenge.

the real problem is dungeon are somewhat ok (still drag on tho, thanks to pointless trash and boss hp) if everything works right: good team composition, coordination etc., but having that hapkitten (EDIT: seriously, “happen” and “is” gets censored because it’s male genitalia with a space? get your frigging filter right.) even more rare than getting an exotic in a chest.
add to that the difference between an uncoordinated team and the one above is way bigger compared to a dungeon with the trinity and a uncoordinated team makes the gw2 dungeons feel even more tedious.

tbh I’d rather have the trinity with proper dungeons back than a “pseudo” non-trinity (where people still have to spec into support for protection and heal) and a downed/waypoint zerg system to accommodate said “non-trinity”

item drops have nothing to do with the karma DR, that’s a separate system (similar to http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Anti-farm_code).

as for the event DR, that’s been in two weeks actually, I guess people only start to notice it now. I’ve seen it the first time in straits of devastation:

- did a part of the central invasion
- 2-3 events northern invasion chain, got killed because the landing was flooded with risen and we were only 2 (nice balance there btw)
- then the southern invasion started in thunderhead and bugged out on the last part to the rally point
- did the cathedral event twice while waiting, at that point I noticed I get whopping 18 karma

so, I didn’t farm, I actually played the game as normal as you can (without changing the zone every 10 minutes to do something else, and what else is there in orr besides events?).

that was 2 weeks ago, but given I still got hit with DR on my guardian pretty fast last week in kessex hills by repeating 2-3 chains, I doubt they changed it much (if anything, they made it account wide)

Would be nice if Anet took time to respond to all the DR threads on how they want us to play their game.

ahahahha, good one. they don’t even dare to put it in the patch notes (which, after years of development and gw1 anet allegedly still has trouble putting together), you think they say anything about it only to incur more wrath? silence is golden.

Izanagi.5812:

DR system is ridiculous.

especially when you check their endgame post. “events are endgame” – just don’t do too much of it!

thefounder.2074:

this player is what will emerge as Arenanet’s thermometer. they will increasingly listen to these voices who think the “vast majority” of players find it too hard. and we other players are just “elitists”. gone is the belief that in a game, even one advertised as skill based with less gear advantage, should ever require teamwork or even a modest amount of communication or planning.

I was just waiting for posts like these. “WAAAH PEOPLE COMPLAIN AND IF THEY CHANGE SOMETHING EVEN IF THE COMPLAINS ARE VALID THEY ONLY CATER TO WHINERS NAO!!!!! /ragequit”.

truth is they look at metrics, not what a fraction of the players whine about on the forum. the whining gives you a picture why, because the metrics only give you numbers. so when the numbers show only 15% of players actually run dungeons and the rest that doesn’t do pvp (newsflash: a lot) quits of boredom, you think they will cater to the 15%? because I’m sure the 15% will make up for the rest in gem purchases.

anet wanted a “5 man raid endgame” in dungeon form. in which game besides eq/wow was raiding popular endgame among the majority? (in before I want easy mode – I don’t, check my post history. but designing an endgame unattractive for a lot of players, no matter how they tout events (now with dr!) or dragonspawns as endgame and expecting otherwise is just naive).

and do you really want to start a discussion about how the game was advertised and turned out?

Sentinel VX.1392:

I don’t mind this system as long all paths are balanced out in difficulty and amount of time that is needed to complete it.

and that is one of the major flaws in their basic design because you CAN’T make every path equally difficult, because it’s based on the group’s ability (and if you make every path the same to achieve that there is really no point in having separate paths). not to mention that people will always choose the fastest/easiest route to get something – and you can’t fix people – It’s a bit hilarious that anet still thinks they can make every path equally “rewarding”

the “do dungeons or play something else till content update” pve endgame doesn’t make it better.

Diva.4706:

In other level based MMOs, if you are max level and want to play with a friend that is lower level, you have to make an alt to play with them, or wait for them to grind up to your level. In GW2, you can just take your main and play with your friend.

in other MMOs doing events EVERYWHERE is not sold as endgame.

2. Agree again.. I say this loads of times, and anyone who has noticed is probably thinking “oh this again….” but, we dont all have access to dungeon expert guilds and friends who play. alot of us are on our own and have to use PuG’s, but that’s a chance to meet new players and some day form such guilds.

that’s something a lot of people have been saying ever since that devpost from colin popped up about dungeons supposed to be like DOA (and only to be answered by the fanbois with “you’re a scrub who wants welfare armor” – reading comprehension is a rare commodity these days…).
but then again you have to see what they sell you as “endgame” and how DOA worked in gw1 but would not work in gw2 without changes to the bigger picture.

DivineBeing.2086:

This means you can keep posting I got 2 tokens while my guildie in same group gets 60 all you want, all day long, but it won’t change nothing. Why? Because they know it’s bugged, hence the bolded part, AND they are ACTIVELY working to fix it. Ok?

too bad he also asked for them: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Patch-Discussion-9-25-1/255660

oh the irony complaining about people not reading devposts…

DivineBeing.2086:

This is a two parter so try to stay with me on this one. The first quote is explaining that the system is to stop exploiters from fast runs. Now, did he say people who run it efficiently? No. Did he call those who run it efficiently exploiters? No.

again, too bad that they didn’t tune it to 15, but 30 minutes – which is actually possible, and thus hurts legit speedrunners. it’s tuned to 10 now (why wasn’t it tuned to 10 right from the start?) not to mention it’s the second week it’s bugged. it should have been fixed last week when it wasn’t obvious it didn’t work properly.

because it sure showed that exploiters not to exploit the last two weeks it was in effect. and don’t forget the sneaked in karma DR for events…

Apakal.5718:

Gray.9650:

wookie slayer.4259:

I hate too say it but I wish Anet should buy a month of wow and go back and play its dungeons and raids and just snag some mechanic ideas, WoW has some problems but dungeon mechanics are not one

Id prefer they’d play tsw a bit, because it accomplishes what anet still tries to. with much less snafu I might add.

Not really. TSW still relies on the trinity, which is everything ANet was trying to get away from. TSW dungeons also had some pretty serious design flaws in their boss encounters. Safety dance is cool every once in awhile, but when every fight in every dungeon is some version of safety dance, often to an extent that melee becomes largely worthless, you have a problem.

That all said, I did enjoy TSW dungeons more. Better stories, better atmosphere, better rewards, better boss encounters (excluding the difficulty of being melee), and an overall more enjoyable experience. The Native American dream dungeon is the coolest dungeon I’ve been in since Blackrock Depths.

I was mainly talking about the dungeons, not trinity (and somehow even WITH the trinity it still works better. I can change roles everywhere, but not in gw2. that’s just one example). you still have the dodge, the limited skillset etc. and the trinity is still present in gw2, you still need people go soaking damage and provide heals/support. just because there is no fixed aggro and bar watching as healer doesn’t mean you can play however you want – and that’s what most players think when they hear “no trinity”

sure, in the end fun is relative, but safety dance is in a lot of gw2 dungeons too. but here it’s either bad/not telegraphed, with circles that hide in geometry, obnoxious high-hp trash/bosses that kill any kind of paceing and tedious oneshot mechanics (sure makes it harder, but not more challenging).

as a mainly melee player, I could add a lot more in melee in tsw than I could in gw2, even with running around.

but yeah, the the darkness war boss still gives me nightmares (so many wipes). the battle mage makes up for it tho. so does most of the facility (after most bugs were fixed).

Ender.3508:

Gray.9650:

Ender.3508:

I think it’s sloppy to patch in a system like this without proper testing, and hopefully AN has learned from the experience. I just feel the torches and pitchforks are being raised too early and pointed at the wrong aspects and problems.

ehr.. gw1 was released when? and they’ve been working on gw2 how long? I’m always fascinated that people take “well.. uhm.. it’s complicated” as an excuse. especially regarding a company that should know better.

ehr.. gw1 was released when? and they’ve been working on gw2 how long? I’m always fascinated that people take “well.. uhm.. it’s complicated” as an excuse. especially regarding a company that should know better.it doesn’t matter if the pitchforks are pointed at the symptom or the cause, but there is definitely a problem.

ehr.. gw1 was released when? and they’ve been working on gw2 how long? I’m always fascinated that people take “well.. uhm.. it’s complicated” as an excuse. especially regarding a company that should know better.it doesn’t matter if the pitchforks are pointed at the symptom or the cause, but there is definitely a problem.EDIT: forum likes to repeat one paragraph, it works as well as the DR…

Yes, they know there is a problem. They made a mistake by releasing a dungeon overhaul without proper testing, and now they are working on fixing it. I’ve spent the past 3 years of my life programming, and I know just how bad it can be. A simple missing parenthesis can have you searching for 6+ hours. A mislaced decimal, even longer.

AN screwed up, yeah, but people are blowing it way out of proportion.

the problem is in the basic the design, and that has been worked on for more than the last 2-3 weeks (unless they conceived it during crunch time, but what would tell us that?).
the DR is just the knee-jerk bandaid which makes it obvious.

don’t forget money is easy to come by. just press “O”. there’s a reason the store is the start page.

wookie slayer.4259:

I hate too say it but I wish Anet should buy a month of wow and go back and play its dungeons and raids and just snag some mechanic ideas, WoW has some problems but dungeon mechanics are not one

Id prefer they’d play tsw a bit, because it accomplishes what anet still tries to. with much less snafu I might add.

Ender.3508:

I think it’s sloppy to patch in a system like this without proper testing, and hopefully AN has learned from the experience. I just feel the torches and pitchforks are being raised too early and pointed at the wrong aspects and problems.

ehr.. gw1 was released when? and they’ve been working on gw2 how long? I’m always fascinated that people take “well.. uhm.. it’s complicated” as an excuse. especially regarding a company that should know better.

ehr.. gw1 was released when? and they’ve been working on gw2 how long? I’m always fascinated that people take “well.. uhm.. it’s complicated” as an excuse. especially regarding a company that should know better.it doesn’t matter if the pitchforks are pointed at the symptom or the cause, but there is definitely a problem.

ehr.. gw1 was released when? and they’ve been working on gw2 how long? I’m always fascinated that people take “well.. uhm.. it’s complicated” as an excuse. especially regarding a company that should know better.it doesn’t matter if the pitchforks are pointed at the symptom or the cause, but there is definitely a problem.EDIT: forum likes to repeat one paragraph, it works as well as the DR…

Razgriz.7319:

GW dungeons just take time and coordination. Always have, always will.

which still were not everyone’s cup of tea. my issue is not with clearing them or have a fast run – they’re just not fun for me. maybe it’s the design from last decade (after the Xth run I start to question why I should grind down that high-hp trash) or anet’s short sighted design, but I can’t see me playing gw2 as long as gw1 – now matter which dungeons are better.

well, the people that actual ran dungeons in gw1 probably liked them because they wanted to do them, there was no “force” or progression-stop if you didn’t. you could just buy or trade the drops. not so much in gw2, and that’s probably why a lot of people are annoyed by the current state – to progress you HAVE to do them, and for some they’re simply no fun. this would not be an issue to progress otherwise (like in gw1).

Hawken.7932:

The more that I think about it, the more that I think Anet made quite a mistake not calling the Explore modes of the dungeons 5-man raids. I think a big part of how some people have reacted to the difficulty comes from an expectation of what a “dungeon” is, in terms of content and difficulty, and that expectation (fairly enough) comes from what they are like in other games.

you could call them hardcore nightmare 5-man raids or whatever. wouldn’t change anything because it’s not about difficulty.

if this would be 10/20 man raiddungeons they would be equally not fun for a lot of people.

Six.8051:

I noticed Berserker’s (Power/Precision/CritDmg%) gear wasn’t available on all of the dungeon trophy vendors in Lion’s Arch. Looking at other vendors, I noticed other stats sets aren’t available for some of the other dungeons as well.

Is this intended? If so, it sucks because it gives players wanting those stats no effective reason to run those dungeons. If they want the gear appearance from those dungeons with the stats they use for their builds, they’ll have to run one dungeon for the stats and another for the appearance, then transmute them together… that’s a lot of dungeon grinding.

Why not offer all the different stat sets on each vendor? This way, people can choose which dungeon they want to run without having to considering whether or not the vendor has gear on it that’s worthwhile stat-wise.

I, for one, will not be running Twilight Arbor anymore because of this bullcrap, so it’s back to farming CoF and Arah for now since they actually offer stats I can use.

because anet wants it this way. people that maybe grind for another armor are maybe people that buy gems. same reason why there are already runes in the items (thus making it require more tokens).
and don’t forget where you can get the fine trans stones if you want the look on an armor with the stats you need.

if it’s about the skins only they could easily offer it in a version like the hom-items (and balance the rest accordingly).

Galador Dux.6359:

You knew you were getting bugged rewards, and Anet has posted several times that it’s not intended. And yet you continued to do runs regardless, and say they are purposely screwing you over. Ok then…

And call what exploits? Doing something that’s obviously not working as intended to bypass or trivialize content? Yeah, that’s the definition of an exploit. Technically, you should get banned (or at least suspended) for exploiting those flaws. You agreed not to when you started playing (read the Rules of Conduct if you don’t believe me).

If you didn’t do any actual exploiting, that’s good. Just means you were hit with the DR bug like a lot of the rest of us. Which, again, is not working as intended and they’re fixing it.

assumptions assumptions.. not everybody reads the forums. not everybody knows whats an exploit is (or did you miss all the posts people asking if X is an exploit where X was routine mmo stuff?).

as for “fixing it” – people were already complaining about it LAST week. guess what they said (and fanbois like you repeated). and now look where we are.

and complaining about complaining hardly fixes the clutter in the dungeon forum, don’t you think?

coil.3420:

as an aside, a friend bought mists of pandaria yesterday…i saw the box at work and on the inside of the foldout cover it has a small text blurb mentioning ‘racing against other groups to complete dungeons in the fastest times’. i’m paraphrasing but when i read that i was literally taken aback — why was wow, the game with dungeon lockouts, limitations, and timers, implementing (read: evolutionizing) a feature that MY game should have already done?

well, because this time blizz actually improved a concept where anet decided to use the 2007 version. everybody gets the same gear, so it’s all about speedruns with the most effective composition, rewards are only transmogs.

though i think it’s also a way of strongly discouraging/combating the MMO-induced farming mentality, treating the game like a job and not a game. if you’re doing speed-runs for rewards and not because they’re inherently fun for you (wasn’t competitive dungeon speed-running a thing in GW1 for a while? never played it myself), you’re playing it not the way it was intended to be played. stop playing the game if all you care about is the reward at the end. or deal with DR.

wat? so the message is “play as you like but not too much because what’s fun for you is not how we perceive fun?”
fact is there ARE people that like to run dungeons. and there are people who don’t like to run dungeons but want the armor/weapon/whatever. so they either want to play as much as possible in dungeons or spend as less time as possible to get their rewards.

and sorry, if you want to combat the farm/grind mentality then you don’t put in a “farm dungeons X number of times for your reward” system in the game. that’s not how it works. ESPECIALLY if it’s the only way to progress.

Signet of Forums.4397:

Gee, I have never seen this suggested before. It’s a good thing someone finally made a thread with this suggestion.

Gee, I have never seen complains about repeated threads before. It’s a good thing someone finally made a post with this complaint.

Artorous.8573:

If people weren’t playing in PuG’s, or at least communicated and tried to improve, then the forums wouldn’t have nearly as much QQ about difficulty. Every dungeon path has been cleared so that is proof they are all possible. If you can’t do it then that’s not ANet’s fault. Improve yourself and try again. Eventually you’re going to clear your way through it and each run after that is going to get quicker and quicker as you grow accustomed to the difficulty. If you want easy modes then go play a Single Player RPG, or WoW as both are extremely simple.

nah, actually, if people would be properly thought about dungeons in the game and there would be alternatives, THEN there would be much less QQ. and just because it’s possible doesn’t mean it’s perfect. there are plenty of issues in dungeons that need improvement.

also pulling the “want ez-mode go wow LOLOL” card is getting boring.

EDIT: you’re right that some are lazy and just want easy access (and then stop playing because they have no carrot to chase anymore), but saying everyone who criticizes or just isn’t entertained by the current dungeons belongs to that group is a gross generalization.

My point was karma by its basic definition is a reward for your good deeds. That is YOUR good deeds, if you do something good your friend/relative/alt does not get the same reward. Sure its treated as a type of currency but has a different meaning that gold.

to achieve that a reputation system per zone would be necessary. karma can be gained by doing events. which events doesnt matter. my character doesnt become the world greatest hero by killing centaurs in kessex hills for a week although he has more karma than a level 80.

you still have to do the hearts (the deeds) to actually access the karma vendor, so it’s not like you suddenly have access to everything just because karma is shared.

I get your point, but karma is a separate currency so people do events, as simple as that. just because it’s called “karma” doesn’t magically turn it into something character specific imo. and a lot of stuff is already per account, not character, there’s no real reason the be stuck with per character currency as long as you follow the failed logic “separate currency means people will farm it on separate chars! yay artificial longevity!”.

you can’t always follow game logic for game mechanics.

brokeit.8346:

Karma is awarded and spent based on your characters influence in the area.

yeah, I definitely have influenced the area when I did a lot of events in the zone before..

it’s a currency like any other, you just accumulate it via events only (so much for gaining karma helping people with their personal story). having to grind it with one char only to buy stuff that’s ACCOUNT BOUND makes absolutely no sense.

The price is fine as is. You don’t buy it for the stats, you buy it for the skin.

by this definition it could be white. or even better like the shop armor so you can transfer it for free (and don’t have to get fine trans stones on top).

little.6509:

“A skill organized group”. I sat in front of the dungeon for 30 minutes prior asking about traits and skills running to make sure we knew what we were doing. Now if by skill organized you mean friends or people I know, that is once again absurd that is required to do a dungeon. Rewards should be given for effort and time, not completion.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Do-NOT-nerf-please/127216 (you have to scroll up for the devpost, the forum works as well as the game)

In the end it doesn’t matter what I think, it’s their game. so I read the devposts, see what and how it ends up in the game and make my own assumptions about their intention (which, right now, would be that dungeons aren’t meant for pugs – and according to the zealous fanboys there is an “abundance of alternatives” if can’t or don’t want to do dungeons. so….)

well, it’s about efficiency, not difficulty. and if there is a difficulty progression in place, I haven’t seen it (most prominent example would be SE SM, compare kudu, the trash and the iron forgeman).

a reasonable fix would be to dump trash till the first boss and remove all the trash afterwards. this way it would be more efficient to finish the dungeon once you killed the first boss than resetting and killing off trash for 15 minutes again.
or remove the thrash altogether and reduce rewards, because maybe farming the first bosses is merely a symptom that people don’t want to spend 1+ hour in a dungeon to see any reasonable reward.

btw, you got a type in you sig (no diss, just to let you know )