Guild Wars 2

Something yakked this way comes…

Lohan doesn’t want to reveal her username but gave me this to post.

She also wanted to let you know:

“All Ye who Feast on Yak behold Yon Doom.”

I think she is misusing “yon” but you don’t argue with Lohan.

Thresher.3049:

…well, except TC, depending on “what” it is you do to them, they might not care if you have their garrison and stand on the walls taunting them in a french accent. But if you killed enough yaks they might well launch some kind of server-wide ‘jihad’ against livestock molesters, in which case we’d all be screwed.

With apologies to Monty Python:
Pot (BG): Your father smelled of alderbérries!
Jayne (TC): What? Free french lessons, sweet!
Pot (BG): I fart ïn your géneral direction!
Coral (TC): I brought cookies! Set up the trebs so we can launch them over the walls!
Nirvii (BG): Uh oh TC trebs going up, stack on me…
Pot (BG): Non! Fetché la yak!
<Yak is hurled at the TCers and crushes a Char loading a sack of cookies into a treb>
Appledainty (TC): They killed a YAK! O.o
Säm (TC): Their souls will roast in hell tonight! Storm the castle!
Coral (TC): It’s just a model.

Some pics or vids of the Kain Garrison fight? Sounds great, who ended up with it at the end?

An interesting start to what should be a very exciting week. Everyone playing fairly defensively, testing their opponents.

I’m hoping to see some awesome videos this week. Icoa vs WM vs Pink 3 way fight please. And HB vs RE vs KH maybe?

Very impressed with Az’s leadership in TCBL late NA, some smart calls got us an easy Bay cap after some very tough fights all night and some worrisome Garrison assaults by a persistent and well organized Icoa. Kain seems to have a deathwish for our yaks. /salute

Predator.7321:

It seems any thread with TC in it blows up double the size of the runner up…lol RPers

We bring it in game and on the forums!

I suspect that there are lot of casuals on TC like myself who would rather be playing but instead only have 5 minutes here and there to check the forums as a poor substitute. Between significant others, babies, house renos, furry conventions, and writing stories about our characters TC’s casual players are lucky to get into the game at all.

Lovin the vids RET, awesome stuff.

Returning at a starting waypoint in WvW after a crash would be a really big improvement.

What appledainty said.

Fighting burnout, keeping players happy and building relationships is just as important as being competitive. If our opponents fear us in combat but also have fun partying with us I think TC would consider that a win.

/salute SBI and SoR, good luck storming the castle

+1 jkctmc.8754 suggestions
-1 to DoAC’s RPs (at least any additional skills or abilities unless they are mainly for improving leadership (i.e. sound/visual effects, UI improvements))
+1 for WvW rewards to aid in obtaining PvE items (i.e. unlikely I’ll ever do a dungeon more than once)

I would love to see more cosmetic rewards in WvW as well. Backpacks (or a toggle) that have a battle standard on them (to make following easier), placeable items that are purely cosmetic (skulls on spears, gravestone markers, warning bells/horns that can be used, dueling ring, etc).

Let’s run a test on TCBL tonight. Get everyone responding in map chat and some observers in JP and other locations where people might be AFK or have chat turned off. I have definitely thought that it was odd to be queued for quite some time and then find the population either extremely spread out or under 130ish.

I’ve had it with SoR’s patronizing of Duckzilla.

zen.6091:

…I do wonder if this style of play will be positive or negative for WvW in the long run as more large guilds organize to play like this. Is it an improvement over the usual mindless militia zergs, or just that on steroids?

I think it is obvious that what RG is doing shouldn’t be the goal of “GvG” combat…. but it is still some of the most fun they’ve had yet and more importantly is just a step along the path towards more practiced/organized warfare. People are still just learning how good some of the skills are in the hands of expert players.

In all the WvW games before this the combat between experts became pretty idiosyncratic, almost degenerate in a lot ways. However already I see a lot of good things in the base system that A.net has in place. Skills that block movement and projectiles, pushes, pulls, short duration invisibility, portal and other things that are about movement, positioning and timing are a really good start to combat that has a lot of flexibility and makes the “mind games” aspects of GvG really interesting (knowing your opponents tendenacies, using feints and lures, etc).

I can see why A.net wants an AoE nerf though, it looks like from what RG is doing that individual targetting / shutdown is just not as important as it should be. How does RG feel about that?

I support picnics, parades and unyielding revenge against villainous cowards ending in gooey messes of viscera and blood.

And Pirates. Pirates are great.

TC can be home for all of that and more; if it is making the the game more fun for others it is welcome and awesome.

Great videos. Really excited to see stuff like this that advances the state of GvG in WvW. I wanna see some vids of counters to RB now. :P

I rarely see guardian play as good as that in WvW and everyone was really sharp with timing and key skills (Veil, etc).

Question: do you have specific builds / composition or just design the tactics around what classes your guild members are playing?

The problem is that rating reflects both population and WvW success. Until they match servers based on population and then do rankings inside of that sub-category this system is just not going to work well.

I’d love to see a rating reset and and regrouping by population. Perhaps three groups High, Medium, Low WvW population

Edit: I thought of a hack that just might work nicely. Scrap any population categories, just add a bias to the rating when determining matchups that is based on the WvW population. That way servers the suddenly gain or lose WvW more much faster through the ranks. For example, for each person hour in WvW during a week you get X additional rating when calculating next matchups, but your position in that Tier could still be by an unadjusted rating.

Hurray for breakouts. :P

I can’t wait for improved culling as those bombs were well executed and very painful tonight. /salute How many SoR guild groups were in the various maps tonight? I’m curious what SOR is fielding these days vs the toasty militia zomgbies.

@appledainty, feldspar, sunspots: lol, awesome

So glad to have you join TC appledainty. Sad I missed this walk, it seemed so Surprisingly Majestic!

If anyone else is wondering about joining TC still,… I highly recommend joining if you think that good players make the game more fun for those around them – be it in PvE or WvW, through fighting honourably or role-playing and extending that fun to all players regardless of ability or server.

Appledainty is on TC now? /yakdance

Cheers Miasmic, apology noted.

Coverage issues aren’t really the problem, we were initially just disappointed we couldn’t have another good matchup with SoR this week. SoR playing for rating rather than playing to win is much more frustrating. You couldn’t do anything about guilds transferring in, but it is certainly your choice to throw the match for your benefit.

That being said, it isn’t a huge deal. Next time though inviting SBI and TC to throw the match with you would have gone a long way. If we all want to do alts, Yak Walks, etc for a week that sounds fun (especially to RPers) and the only people who get hurt are outside the Tier.

Have to agree with a bunch of the TC here, going easy on your opponent when they haven’t asked for it feels patronizing, even if the intention is just purely self-interested not trying to “know what is best for them”.

If you’re not going play to win then have enough respect to invite us to join you in some fun. If we decline, then you’re still obligated to play to win, which is the only respectful way to play a game with others.

If it was my server I would try to encourage everyone to fight to get us out the Tier asap since creating time to “build community” isn’t your opponents problem it is yours, but if you metagame that way you are making it our problem.

I’m a bit saddened that Tier 1 aspirations have clouded SoR’s generally classy play. Hopefully things improve for all servers once all the turmoil is over.

The BG and SoR comparison is not very apt. What is frustrating is that matchup in T2 was good and is now worse. BG had a similar composition as it rised through the ranks, we fought them when they went through T3, their goal was always to stack a server for T1 competition. SoR and TC share(d) a focus more on being competitive where they are.

Regardless, there is no reason to take out our frustration on SoR, it is just the nature of the game. Until the community takes it on itself to build solid matchups in each tier the game won’t reach its full potential. The current cycle of 1st place servers attracting enough coverage to move up a tier and the 3rd place server losing coverage until they move down is really painful because it feels like the majority of the movement in the system is from transfers not skill or coordination.

In any case, the problem we have now is one we’ve had before when in a tier with a server attempting to hit T1 and server suffering from burnout from T1. We survived that just fine, it just took more focus on making the game fun rather then letting it happen through a good match up.

Edit: To be clear: SoR has been probably our favorite server to play with. We wish you the best. Looking forward to some good weeks with SBI too.

Fully support:
Autoloot
Icons for enemies instead of text
Improved squad, group UI, etc
No rally on NPC death

My suggestions:
1) More info on the map about the state of structures, if there is a friendly player nearby
2) Scout items (spyglass, etc) that lock player in place but show enemies on map or otherwise provide intel to be displayed on map. Perhaps with sniper/zoom UI when equipped to help with siege/treb targetting?
3) Change the fortifications so that they fit better with LoS and other aspects of the game to provide a real advantage for defenders rather than looking like fortifications from history.

I am still a fan of the AoE caps, but I thought the zerg bombing in DAoC was boring and terrible for gameplay. If you want to be able to beat a zerg it should require guerilla warfare, with multiple attacks, traps and retreats. Perhaps a new skill that AoE finishes downed players might be helpful? Hard to balance that with sPvP.

I do think that some changes to increase the incentive for WvW in general and defending, supply runs and other less exciting tasks would be great. In see an opportunity to get reward driven players (mainly PvEers) into the most fun part of game by giving out better rewards for the aspects of WvW that involve less PvP.

Ardon.4105:

I wholeheartedly thank the TC forum warriors saints for successfully drowning out a lot of the hate in this thread with a good attitude and maturity. You guys are still my favorites.

We learned a hard lesson when foruming vs FA. Most of TC posters now understand it’s better to bring the positive attitude we try to promote in /team to the boards. It’s more fun to play with friends even when they are your opponents.

Osi can you enable mobile watching for your videos? Amazing play, I’m really impressed with your sense of timing and patience in the larger fights.

Cooldown on swap seems like a good idea Mufa, that would general balance with the power of the utility. Probably with a minimum cooldown of X seconds for things like signets with passives, etc.

I like the idea of utility swapping, even if it has a further drawback such as adding an additional 5(?) second initial cooldown to an ability that was just swapped in.

As well I think weapon swapping would be fine only inside the starting “bases” (and after a death) so that if things really aren’t working for your team and your utility adjustments can’t cover it there is still a chance for a comeback using different weapons.

Trait, armor, amulet, etc swapping just isn’t visible enough to your opponent (or spectators) and I like a stronger fixed/build meta.

Time to invite BG and SoR to a friendly Yak Walk. Sadly, I’m away most of the holidays, but wish everyone a great , bloody holiday.

TC is extremely excited to join Tier 2, we felt a bit handcuffed by our population advantage in T3, and look forward to learning the hard way. /salute to all the the great players on FA, YB and CD who fought hard against bad odds.

Personally, I’m also excited because this is one of the better opportunities to see if the ranking system is out of whack or the clustering in the Tiers actually reflects some sort of reality.

I think the big question is how valuable it is to offer a change of opponents. As I see it the consistent 1st place servers need a chance to prove themselves at a higher tier and a consistent 3rd place servers need a potential morale booster as well as giving the lower tier opponents a chance to prove that they can take on a better server and a learning opportunity to learn from a better server.

The more I think about this and the current state of the matchups it seems like more movement through the tiers would be preferrable to “better” matchups.

Appledainty “The Yak Whisperer” is CD, but is much loved now by TC.

I only had Mystery tonics, so I’d like another go with all Ruminants.

Thanks for keeping this discussion going DB.

I definitely think the current system should go, or at least not use the point ranking for tier placement. The only important thing at this point is what tier you play in, not what your relative rank vs any particular server is.

As long as the mechanism for moving up and down tiers is sensible that should suffice. As I said earlier, something as simple as two consecutive 1st place finishes will switch you with the 3rd place finisher of the tier above who has at least two 3rd place finishes. This would move consistent 3rd place finishers down and consistent 1st place finishers up.

actrade is also correct though, there should be more incentive to double team 1st. The point based system has trouble, especially in matchups like tier 3 where TC (1st palce) has a population advantage. DAoCs relic based win conditions helped (where you captured relics and placed them in keeps until they were reclaimed), but forced the current winner into a heavily defensive mode (usually against the other two). I don’t think there are any easy answers for tier 3 problems.

Fun night, thanks to Appledainty for the Yak Walk, had a blast. TC will always support roleplaying even on other servers. Was nice to see a long list of some of our best commanders come out and support the event. Goofing around with your opponents makes future conflicts more fun. Thanks to the many CDs and especially the FAs who participated (in particular [GODS]).

I expected people to eventually get bored and things to end in a (fun) bloodbath, but FAs bloodthirsty attitude made for an entertaining night in a different way. It would have been better to have waited until the walk was winding down though. Events like these are “have your cake and eat it too” – we can do something fun together and then let chaos reign afterwards.

Really proud of the commanders and TCers who called for FA to hit 0 points tonight and then made it happen. Well played – was a night to remember!

Seems like we may want to organize some other cross server events for otherwise slow Thursdays.

No, jayderyu is right. I was thinking about this today too. The ranking algorithm needs to focus on one aspect only, whether or not you should move up 1 tier, stay in the same tier or move down 1 (or possibly 2) tiers. It should do that as directly as possible, the current system is far too indirect and we’re seeing servers within a tier being more closely grouped in points rather than promoting consistent top place finishes into a higher tier and consistent 3rd place finishes into the lower. Consider a naive but simple algorithm: 2 consecutive first place finishes, switch with 3rd place in higher tier who has at least 2 losses in that tier. (i.e. you could flip between tiers every 2 matches if you always win the lower and always lose the higher). That with some special cases for blowouts and other rare situations might work better than the current system.

I don’t have time to write up a detailed post, but someone should start a new thread on it. I bet we could come up with something really simple and more effective. Just focus on moving winners up and losers down.

Lovin’ the Yak Walk idea, hopefully I can get on for that.

If things were working as intended the list should look like:
Mesmers, Thieves, defensive specs of other classes

Mesmers class is designed to be annoying (i.e. slippery, confusing, punishing, etc). Thieves should be annoying because of their mobility, surprise and damage output, but they shouldn’t be as annoying to counter/kill as mesmers.

It seems like thieves should have to choose between mobility, stealth and damage output moreso then currently. 2 outta 3 seems fine, but maximizing all 3 seems like the risk/reward level for the thief is broken.

I logged on just for a quick stroll through TCBL and… wait, queued? Huh? 15mins later I get in and wow, the pressure was on. 4 hours later I finally manage to drag myself away after a great bunch of fights. Really enjoyed fighting CD’s KH tonight and a few from some other WvW guilds there.
Thanks to all the TCBL regulars and commanders who did a good job when things were crazy.
I think this is a good example of how to maximize the fun of the fights if CD or FA are ever having pop problems, you should be able to fill EB satisifactorily, plus have enough between the two of you on TCBL to make headway and have some token defence for any TC excess that spills into your backyard.
EDIT: As for an FA guild attacking CD, I love it. To me that is the essence of the FA fighting spirit. Bloodthirsty beserkers! Are you sure you’re from Fort Aspenwood and not the people who sacked it? <grins> Part of the fun of allies is you never know when the truce will end or be forgotten in the blood (troll?) rage.

I only had problems before in fast moving zergs, but the 30 v 30 for a few hours tonight seemed to work quite well. Occassionally enemies would come in a touch slow when I was flanking, but never so poorly that I left any enemies behind me unseen.
Thieves were still problematic.

I’ve found Moa very handy in WvW when I switch it in for particular situations (solo or duo defending mainly).

EDIT: Troops post removed…. but I’ll let stand what’s great about TC:

TC has a large presence of mature, casual players who are decent but not expert players. They make a mean militia when well led (which is often the case). That’s what keeps us out of higher and lower Tiers and we quite like our community including all the people that don’t fit into the above generalization.

Cheers to that Coghbyrn.

The 40 golem rush sounds insane, why didn’t anyone take out the oil? The golems were completely unsupported?

FA was playing great in TCBL during the day, although the use of stealthed thieves for point denial is pretty inane. I thought FA outplayed us most of the day, but our late night NA crew is pretty experienced and did a good job cleaning the map.

This looks like a good week, just need to get Yak’s a few more PvP guilds.

Draygo can you run a scenario where a team takes most of the map then logs out ftw? Near end of end of match?
How about abandoning battlegrounds and stacking others? (Low pop server?)

Trebbing spawns is not fun, there are a lot of Toast that will speak out against that, but we can’t stop the idiots. if you can give us some idea of who is responsible I’m happy to talk to them about how to improve their game.

edit: @Scorpio: if this was a real war then morale busting would be good tactics, playing a game and destroying your opponents desire to play with you is just stupid and ruins the game for both of you.

This week isn’t a good indication of how things will play out generally. WvW has been a blast on any server with a good community. The foundations are solid (but with some much needed tweaks) and thus the main onus on making the game fun is the community. If WVW is work or not fun then you need to try changing your playstyle to be more like the people who are enjoying it. Anyone who played DAoC for years will tell you the same thing – don’t make a second job for yourself, don’t fight the game, and build a positive community both between teammates and your opponents.