For reference, here is my build.
Nothing fancy; based roughly on the standard Warrior front liner / melee trainer or “worker” build I found on intothemists and a couple of WvW guild sites. I tried to pick something that is as widely used and simple to operate as possible. Doesn’t mean I’m any good at running it, obviously. I do manage to not die a bit more often than I did when I first started, so there’s that.
(edited by Heezdedjim.8902)
I am bad at 1v1. And when I say bad, I mean, really, really bad.
To be fair, my contribution to a large zerg also is questionable at best, and I am an albatross to any small group.
I am reminded of this every time I run into anyone else when I am alone in WvW. I play a warrior, which is a class that I know in the hands of a good player should be able to hold its own against any other class in a solo fight. But I will die to literally anything, unless the other person is worse than me in every way (which is unlikely in practice, since if they are that bad they probably just run away before I ever see them).
I am wondering if spending some time dying over and over and over in sPvP every day would make me any better at 1v1 and team fights in WvW. Or is the meta different enough that the setups and skills don’t overlap much? Will I learn as much (eventually) from just sticking to WvW, or should I consider “cross training” in sPvP to try and develop some sort of “fundamentals” as well?
We all will get a boost in ranks, once W-XP becomes accountbound.
All except those that have only one character with any WvW ranks to start with.
This business about high-population servers all having bad players who only win through numbers is IME a myth.
The high (WvW) population servers draw both good and bad players, and they have plenty of both.
The good ones come because they like their effort to produce results (wins), and the bad ones come because they like to win regardless whether they suck or not, and that’s a whole lot easier when you can just blob the hell out of the other side 24×7.
And the great roamers flock to these same servers because . . . moar targets.
Wait until your server is blue, it’ll be much easier to get those points then.
That was my plan.
Speaking of which . . . I thought the colors were supposed to be random each week, but at least when SoR was in T1, we were red week after week after week. Are the colors actually rotated “randomly,” or is there still some sort of “weight” factored in for the ranking of each server when deciding the colors?
The two trebs at the bottom of the stairs just don’t seem to work at all though. I set them up right on the spots you have shown there, but all they do is throw the shot straight into the wall in front of them, with no effect (i.e., no poison cloud appears). I can’t seem to find any power setting that will actually land the shot anywhere useful, or get it over the wall to the outside.
I fiddled around with those two trebs some more and found that if the target arrow is pointed at the middle of the door openings on either side of the gate, then the cows will be thrown “through” the grilles above those doors and will make it out onto the stairs outside. It seems like if a straight on shot doesn’t go through, then the answer is just to work the angle back and forth a little until the shot hits an “open” space in the geometry.
With a third treb sitting in front of the supply hut beside the lord’s room you also can tap shot the area right outside the door, so together these trebs can keep the entire approach to this gate covered in poison. If the one by the supply hut has a problem getting shots through the door, just twiddle the angle right to left a little until the shots hit the “spaces” in the grill just above the door and get through to the space outside.
It seems to work pretty well; or at any rate the trebs were a bit damaged but all still in place when I came back in the morning. I assume from the damage to the trebs that there was some sort of attack in the wee hours that got through the gate, but not in enough force to flip the keep.
Learn by doing and watching others.
Here is a nice door with 2 poison spitters that will send the poison far down the stairs for example + some AC placed so the omegas dont just walk over them.
Always make sure your AC is as far back on wall as possible and make sure they are as low on wall as you can or the Omegas will do short work of your siege.
Since our server is finally green for a change, I had a chance to try out your suggested layouts. The AC placements seem to work out ok, and I got them tucked onto the side of that one wall corner as you show.
The two trebs at the bottom of the stairs just don’t seem to work at all though. I set them up right on the spots you have shown there, but all they do is throw the shot straight into the wall in front of them, with no effect (i.e., no poison cloud appears). I can’t seem to find any power setting that will actually land the shot anywhere useful, or get it over the wall to the outside.
Am I missing something about this placement?
I got lucky somehow the other day with a placement in the lord’s room that was at just the right spot to lob cows “through” the door, so that the poison cloud would form right on the outside. This was with a tap shot (no hold time). When I tried again the next day, I don’t think I can find that exact spot again, so my other placements haven’t been as useful here.
I was rolling along just fine, minding my own business, got to 70% map completion.
Then I decided I would hop into WvW to get the Gift of Battle and the borderlands maps. A few weeks later, I have the Gift and just a couple points on the blue map to get the maps all done.
But now WvW is all I do every day when I’m on. And I start to fall asleep just thinking about going back to finish the world maps.
Thanks a lot, WvW. How the hell am I supposed to get my Legendary now?!
As one wise SoR commander has said: “PPT is how we get good fights, guys.”
Assuming you used all laurels earned since launch to buy ranks, by my math you would still need to cap Stonemist more than 48,000 times to reach Diamond Legend. That would mean flipping it around 90 times a day, every day since launch. You also could have done it by killing around 800,000 players (about 1,500 a day, every day, since launch).
It seems . . . unlikely that this has happened. So I wonder what the highest rank is that anyone has actually reached.
PPT means this: What servers you will go against next week.
Of all the variables in WvW, the match up is the single biggest one that determines what options will be open to you for having fun in WvW over the next seven days. If you care about that, then you care about PPT.
Caring about PPT and caring about maxing PPT are not the same thing.
You only read need two threads to cover the entire range of topics. Just name them “??? Needs Nerfed” and “??? Needs Buffed.” Problem solved.
Well, between the time the rank requirement was patched in and today, I managed to get rank 30 and buy the gift (starting from having never done WvW at all before).
Also got two borderlands completed, one all but about 6 points, and EB all but a couple towers in one corner.
I watched a couple of videos on people using these. I also think I watched one run amok in the SoR garri for about 15 minutes near the end of last week. I’ve not been on the other end of one, so other than “bring lots of hammers,” I’m not sure exactly what it takes to make them work.
I’m curious what are the cookie cutter builds and tactics for running them, assuming that you have a group of anywhere between five and “everyone” with hammers.
Of those on SoR, are any open to low-rank, no-talent noobs that are willing to follow orders and want to learn to suck less?
You could try Hel (Helioz) who I’m told are a very friendly bunch, friend of mine plays with them and was new to WvWvW when he joined and was made very welcome.
Thanks very much. I’ve seen that tag around fairly often. I’ll keep an eye out for them.
Who exactly are they going to match T1 servers against other than the same three they’re already matched against? They’ll just destroy any other server (well, two of them will anyway . . .).
2,000g — Gold “Emperor” tag; globally unique (can be owned by only one character per server at any time).
Also, the Gold Tag should be about 10x larger than the existing tag. So on other players’ screens it would obscure an entire borderlands map, leaving no doubt in anyone’s mind about EXACTLY where The Emperor is at all times.
And on the commander’s screen it would just occupy the ENTIRE field of view. Because who gives a crap about anything besides how awesome I am?
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I’m in ur raidz lootin ur bagz.
Of those on SoR, are any open to low-rank, no-talent noobs that are willing to follow orders and want to learn to suck less?
First prize: 2,000 gems to every account on the winning server.
Second prize: 1 Mystic Coin.
Third prize is you’re perma-banned.
Axe/Horn or Sword/Horn are common because (1) low-CD Blast finisher on the horn 5 skill, for Might stacking or heal spamming over water fields; (2) two low-CD condition cleanses on horn 4, 5 from one trait; and (3) always on Quickness (you’ll need to spam 4 when solo, but not so much in the zerg because it stacks duration when > 1 people have it, which is always the case).
Axe gives better raw damage in a full power build, but lacks in mobility and pin down capability.
Sword will be a bit weaker on damage since it relies on bleeds, you’re not stacking condition damage, and most groups have loads of cleansing to negate your bleed damage anyway. But Sword has awesome mobility with the very long range, low-CD leap on sword 2, and (assuming you can land the immobilize), also has a burst with built-in pin down to give you a better chance of landing it all (though, again, it’s a burst that relies on a stacking bleed, so damage will suffer with lots of cleanses getting thrown around to wipe it right off again.
Your second weapon can be either the ever popular Hammer for AOE and crowd control hilarity, or Longbow to give you fire fields and AOE + ranged damage for kiters and targets on walls.
Some like Greatsword for the two mobility skills, but its major damage skill being a long self-root is a liability. Mace/Shield is awesome for stuns but has weak damage. And some people do run Sword/Shield, but you’ll see it only rarely compared with Sword/Horn.
Rifle seems to be rarely used due to the lack of AOE. But if you just want to stand in the back and snipe for bags like a little kitten, then it works for that.
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If they would make the Vision Crystal tradeable like all the other Ascended mats, then at least you could craft and sell once you have your own full set.
I’ve been going back and forth between “real” WvW and EOTM since the new map came out, and I’m sort of hunting for a decent warrior build that will work in unpredictable group comps and large, unruly blob fights.
I’ve messed around with a few different builds, and recently have tried what seems like the cookie-cutter warrior front line shout healer build:
http://intothemists.com/guides/991-wvw_shout_heal_frontliner
I went with the traits from the second one, except swapping out Leg Specialist for Lung Capacity. Gear is as shown in the second link; basically all PTV + Soldier runes, with zerker weapons and power/precision/crit damage on the trinket jewels. It seems like a reasonably good all-rounder setup that would work well with a lot of different traits and weapons, so I’ll probably stick with the same gear and just change up the skills.
As the build comments on the intothemists page note, the shout healer build seems to be less ideal when you’re (possibly) the only warrior running it, and in any case when there is an unknown level of or almost no real command presence or coordination with the group, so that the heal spamming potential from having masses of these does not come into play.
I’m far from any good with this build yet, but I feel like I’m not going to get much mileage out of it even when I get better. Instead of being actual 10v10 or 50v50 fights, most zergs seem to descend almost instantly when engaged into 50 × 1v1 to 5v1 fights. So it feels like the best setup for the PUG environment is more of a roamer with as much survivability and escape as possible, rather than a team-focused build.
I also feel like I wind up standing around with nothing to do sometimes due to a lack of ranged damage, especially at walls and doors. I think any PUG build is going to need to at least have a bow equipped to deal with kiters, NPCs and siege up on walls, and for staying out of the AOE spam no-man’s land while still trying to do some damage.
I had started out with a three-stance build a while back that was nice for powering through AOE walls, surviving ambushes, and getting focused in furballs. I also liked Mending + the cleanse on heal trait, which is an awesome low CD solo complete cleanse. But it felt like a build that does nothing for the group (other than keeping yourself not dead, which I guess is a benefit).
Anyway, I’m curious what builds other warriors feel are their go-to builds for EOTM silliness and generally just following around random blue triangles in small to mid-sized trains in the borderlands maps.
They could just divide by 1,000 on all these and bring them back into the realm of plausibility.
So, for the sake of completeness, what exactly are the “meta” builds for each class, and can we get some links to each?
Trying to solo map WvW zones is the quickest way to frustration I’ve ever seen in my life unless you pretty regularly do PVP and have builds / gear for it. Since I don’t.. i pretty quickly ruled this option out (after several pretty one-sided masochistic poundings)
Well there are only a limited number of open points that you can even try to get on your own. Camps and the NPC areas you can just blitz through even if not friendly just to get the POI. Vistas and skill points you can get if you sneak around and are careful to do it when the enemy is elsewhere.
The big problem is most of the POIs and vistas are inside structures you can only enter when your side holds them. So you can either wait to see it go friendly and then try to sneak in before it gets flipped, or go along with a zerg and hope they decide to grab it on their way past at some point.
I wind up running around with whatever zerg is there while “waiting” for points to go friendly, because otherwise I’m just sitting there doing nothing. Then I find that I have more interest in the actual WvW than I do with getting the map completion done, so I figure it will just be done when it’s done.
Borderlands maps and weekly PPT + EOTM “faction” based match ups and overflows.
2. Is it even possible to NOT reach rank 30 while exploring WvW?
It depends how you go about it. If you go in and actually play WvW and just grab POIs and vistas as your side happens to get them, then you can probably reach rank 30 quicker than getting all the maps done, especially if your server is running weak and stays the same color for a while.
In the last week when SoR has been a ghost town due to EOTM sucking the entire server away, I’ve managed to reach 21 just following around whatever blue tag happened to be on the map, and I only have the red borderlands and maybe 40% of EB, with only a few points around the red corners in the other BLs. I don’t think I’ll see anywhere near full completion until we get swapped around to the other colors eventually.
If your server runs the map nightly and you can go anywhere you want, then maybe exploration would go a lot quicker than the ranks.
Another crappy design problem is the inability to immediately claim a camp if there is a person who is in a larger guild nearby. If my guild has the +5 buff, I should be able to claim a camp.
I’ve seen it said a few times in chat that a camp has +5 supply. How do you know if a camp has that buff in effect? Is it just because you get 15 instead of 10 when you pick up supply there? Also, any time I’ve seen this said, it doesn’t seem to work if I already have 10 supply when I go to try and pick up more.
No thank you. A lot of people enjoying fighting for their own server. Each server has its own personality in terms of how people treat each other, ppt vs fights, and overall seriousness. You lose that in eotm and it isn’t as fun.
This is like saying you can’t enjoy “fighting for your guild” because you’re on the field beside other guilds and blobs full of PUGs. You’re still fighting “for your server.” Now you just have different “allies” fighting with you from week to week.
The big effect would be that it would make pure numbers less of an issue, just because numbers would always be more or less even. So winning would depend on being more organized and consistent, and things like holding what you take and keeping supply moving would matter a bit more, because you couldn’t just roll the map any time you feel like it to pick up points. You, your guild, and your server will be known by what you do, not just because you’re the most stacked.
Servers still would have the chance to make a big impact and anchor a match while randoms run around goofing off, if your server has a lot of motivated, active, and coordinated people willing to put the work in. But each server also would actually have to fight instead of just stacking numbers in order to win, because all sides would be equally stacked, and numbers alone would not be enough.
It just blows my mind that WvW players have been getting shafted for so long, and as soon as PvE players have one tiny thing that they have to WvW for, ANet instantly reverts their decision.
To be fair, they said that the rank requirement IS coming back at some point, and it is only being taken out because of “the way it is messaged in-game” at the moment. That sounds like the only reason they’re taking the rank requirement out might be because, as it is now, the Gift is not even visible at the vendor unless you have rank 30, so there is no way to know beforehand (in-game) that the thing even exists, or how you can get it.
What would happen if ANet changed the way the borderlands work to leverage the new EOTM overflow + matchmaking system, but apply it to the old maps with persistent PPT scoring and week long “matches”?
SERVER GROUPS
Servers still would be sorted out by population, but instead of matching server to server, the system would use a random process to form server groups that, overall, will have evenly matched populations. Simple raw number of players could be used, but if they have it (and I assume that they do) ANet also could use the previous week or previous month data on number of player-hours actually spent in WvW on each server to set that server’s “effective population” for the purpose of this calculation.
The trick is that the grouping would be random from week to week, so that people could not predict which servers would be grouped with each other consistently. And if actual player-hours in WvW were used, then servers that get stacked with the most active WvW guilds would wind up always grouped with servers that tend not to stack, which would mitigate the effect of people hopping from one bandwagon to another.
MATCH UPS
For the actual match ups, the colors would be formed up into matches that would run on the existing borderlands maps, but like EOTM they would overflow once a map fills to whatever the cap is on total population per map that the system can handle. The total world score for each color would be summed over all overflows and would be cumulative for the entire week, as it is now with the borderlands.
The matchmaking would need to make sure that an overflow is not created until the first opened instance is “full,” and also would have to start queueing players for a color when the total number hits 1/3 of the maximum population allowed. (This would be a good reason to use historical player-hours in WvW for grouping instead of raw population; to ensure that servers likely to have lots of players queueing are grouped with ones that historically have less players in WvW, so that generally the overflows will start promptly and fill evenly.)
There would need to be some minimum and roughly equal number of players queued on all three sides in order for a new overflow to open up, to avoid creating graveyard overflows with just a couple people in them, and to prevent creating overflows with only players from one color.
POPULATION CONTROL
If the population of any color in an existing overflow gets above a certain ratio to the others, then players of that color no longer could enter that overflow and would be shunted off to other overflows that were still “open” to their color. Once a steady-state number of overflows are formed, this would keep the color balance in each within reason, so that people can’t just pile into one map where their color is dominating.
The system also could allow people to queue up in groups, or to invite from one overflow to another so that guilds can play together, but only subject to the same rules that apply to random queueing. So a party that queues would get put into the first overflow that has “room” for the entire group on their side, or otherwise would have to sit and wait until a big enough hole opens for them in an overflow (or until enough people of other colors queue up for a new overflow to open).
Likewise for guilds playing together, you could gather to your overflow with invites, but only as long as there is still room for more players of your color already in your map. Ideally, there also would be an option to “find my guild” that a player could select when queueing up solo, which would cause the queue to look for an overflow that already has members of their guild in it, and, if space is available, prefer to put them there (of course, if you check this, you also might have to wait a bit to get in, vs. queueing to the first available spot in any map).
Finally, when the total population of an overflow falls below the minimum threshold for overflow creation, that map would get set into “depleting” mode, where no players of any color can enter, and then the instance would be closed and destroyed once the last player leaves. (Or, if enough players of all colors queue up at some point that would normally cause a new overflow to form, then the system could “reopen” the depleting map and start to refill it rather than starting a new one.)
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Must have heard it 200+ times now, but mine is still the exchange between the pair of NPCs that show up after a boar kill in Queensdale:
Guy: A fearsome death howl, from a fearsome foe, the likes of which has never been seen before!
Gal: Whatever. It was big . . . now it’s dead.
Guy: Show some respect! . . . Now collect the head. Lord Beetlestone must have his latest trophy.
I’m not sure exactly how to suggest that it be done, but it seems like there has to be some sort of fusion of the new match up and overflow mechanics from EOTM with the persistent victory conditions of static WvW that would bring action back to the old maps. Somewhere in the mess of all this, there has to be some sort of match up system that will defeat the tendency for people to just stack servers and blob the opposition down week after week, until the lowest ranked server in each group just gives up and leaves.
I was researching on the exact same thing just now. Came across this thread :p
I found this esp. usefull:
http://core.gw2gt.com/training/commander-training/overall-defensive-siege.aspx
Awesome. Pretty much exactly what I was looking for. Thanks very much.
One thing I was wondering about: with arrow carts, if you don’t have LOS on the gate, would targeting the wall on top of the gate still hit the enemies below?
Same question I have. I also thought I saw comments either in map chat or on the forums that since the most recent patch ACs were nerfed and now you get “obstructed” a lot of times, because they tried to put in some LOS checks but borked them up. I believe I’ve seen people say that now even if you can clearly see the gate from your position manning the AC, you may get “obstructed” because the AC can’t “see over” the stupid little ledge on the edge of the wall. I haven’t gotten a chance to test this out myself yet.
Here is a nice door with 2 poison spitters that will send the poison far down the stairs for example + some AC placed so the omegas dont just walk over them.
Always make sure your AC is as far back on wall as possible and make sure they are as low on wall as you can or the Omegas will do short work of your siege.
Nice layout. With the AC in that position, how do you drop the target, since you can’t see over the gate? It seems like if it’s placed right, by definition you’ll have no line of sight to the zerg, so do you just drop the target in the air, like where the outer burning oil is, and then it hits whatever is right below?
Is there a good guide anywhere that shows where exactly to best place siege in and around different keeps and towers for defensive use?
With the limited FOV and awkward camera placement on some of the weapons (plus trying to place them to avoid being instantly killed by magical wall-climing AOE), the “right” spot to put them isn’t always obvious (or even vaguely sensible, in some cases).
I did not realize, for instance, that trebs and catas placed in a courtyard can just shoot straight at the door and (apparently) the AOE goes “through” the door and hits everyone outside trying to get in.
In my limited time in WvW so far, I almost never see people make any effort to place siege in order to actually hold something we just took, so it’s rare that I get to see someone at work who seems to know what they’re doing. I did see a commander from GSCH siege up a tower very nicely yesterday, and later we beat back a sizeable zerg with just a cata and treb in the courtyard, and one AC up on a hill overlooking the gate.
Anyway, I wonder if anyone has done a video or screenshot guide showing, for the different types of siege weapons, the basics of “put X here, and then you can cover this and this area with poison cloud / gravel,” for the various tower and keep layouts.
I also had not realized before I played with a couple of them I found sitting around that trebs and mortars can be put in a tower or keep and hit a whole other tower or keep nearby. I assume that people use these so rarely in-game because you need a spotter and to actually plan ahead a little to make use of them. But these two weapons seem to have a lot of potential power if placed and used correctly.
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You may see WvW: EOTM as some sort of karma fest, and the way it’s been made it offers the best in that kind of experience. But at the same time it comes with the ability for massive, constant, PvP ACTUAL COMBATIVE encounters. That’s all any serious PvP’r wants. To engage other players in combat, not just doors for ppt. Fact is, it’s a hell of a lot of fun, unlike WvW: PvDoor (unless you’re one of the aforementioned folk who thrive on that sort of thing).
To be fair, WvW in either form is not really PvP and never was intended to be. It’s a MMORTS mini-game with player controlled zerglings. It’s there for the farming, the tactical / logistical grinding, and zergtastic antics. People who aren’t into PvDoor can either roam or go do arenas, which are “real PvP” for those who want nothing else.
So I guess the message is . . . get it while you can?
Why does this item not extend both of the categories of temporary buffs? If it did, then it might not seem quite such a lousy value. Or are they planning to introduce a second overpriced item to extend those, so that you have to run two buff buffing buffs in order to fully buff your buffs?
BG pays $10000000 a week to buy guilds. You think they want to stop that cash flow?
What does this comment mean? Like, who is actually paying what, to whom, for what here? And why?
On high graphics, how much detail do enemy players see of your armor and weapons? Can they identify you easily if you’re wearing something that stands out, or does everyone appear to be wearing the generic faction tinted armor no matter what the settings?
I kinda like the idea of not being identifiable myself, so that I’m less likely to get picked out as a known noob and insta-zerked at the start of every fight. My noob rank probably makes that a bit likely in itself, but at least I’m no more inviting than any other “Recruit” on the field.
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It’s clear we need two separate types of legendary weapons – one obtained solely from doing pve and one from doing wvw.
Three: One obtained solely from sPvP, if you want to be “fair” about it.
And we already have “legendaries” obtained solely from PvE. They’re called ascended weapons.
I’d like ANet to enable our WvW ranks to be seen by our allies. Only the enemy can see if, but you most likely never to see that person again and they will only recognise you if your rank is like Diamond Legend. I think they could give you titles each time you reach a rank that gives you a new one. Or they could automatically give you your rank. So you could have your name then your chosen title and below that your WvW rank. As much as I like WvW I would have more of an incentive to play WvW if my team could see my rank. Also I I’d be cool for the ranks to be account bound.
Would be awesome if they had a little rank insignia for each rank attached to the tag (maybe visible only to allies).
a rallybot is someone that runs into a zergfight and gets killed while other team has downed players and pretty much rallies the whole zerg that was downed already. the big reason why zergbusters run tagless so people dont follow them.its the worst thing to have someone rally 8-10 players u downed already.
To extend the lavish display of my noobishness: I’m not that familiar with how the downed mechanics work, but I think what I understand from this is that if I run into a zerg and die, then does anyone who hit me while I was downed get rallied from that kill? Or are a certain number of enemy players rallied any time an enemy is killed near them?
Also, other than hanging back in ranged and trying to stick with my own zerg, and not get isolated so I get 5v1’ed and killed, what can I do to avoid being a rallybot, so that I will not be That Guy?
So, to the title of the post: Does the Gift show up in the vendor once you do reach rank 30? Because I looked at all of them and did not see it for sale anywhere (I’m not rank 30 yet or close to it).
And I’m not sure how viable the laurels->rank idea is for anyone who truly wants to avoid WvW entirely, because you have to spend a fair chunk of BOH to get the WXP item as well as the laurels. If you’re not already playing WvW to get lots of BOH, you will wind up spending all the badges you get from achievement chest buying your rank, and then you’ll have to go do WvW anyway to get the BOH you need. So I think you have to do the WvW either way now.
Which, I can understand people being kittened at being forced to play parts of the game they would not choose to play otherwise. I tried WvW and I do like it, even though I suck at PvP as a general rule. But I don’t expect or think that everyone will or should feel that way about it.
On the other hand, I’m sure that full time PvP and WvW players also probably don’t appreciate much that they’re forced to grind dungeons and do map completion to get their legendaries either.
I think the only real answer to this is that anyone can get a legendary while avoiding any part of the game they really, truly despise, as long as they’re willing to spend enough time grinding for gold (or dump enough dollars in gems to gold) to buy one off the TP. They sure as hell aren’t cheap that way, but they’re not exactly cheap any other way either.
And the only thing this really changes is that now everyone who likes only certain aspects of the game is going to have to spend a non-trivial amount of time doing at least some things they don’t like in order to get one without buying it straight up.
Stupid question, but this seems like the right thread to ask it in: What’s a rally bot?
I’ve never done arena PvP in other MMOs, because I just don’t have that 1v1 competitive drive to stick with it long enough to get through the spawn-run-instagib-lather-rinse-repeat phase that takes so long to get out of.
WvW I like though because, even though I die quickly to the inevitable 5v1 focus in zerg fights that go badly, I still wind up spending a lot more time alive than dead. So if I can find a zerg to run around with, I at least get to accomplish something every time I am out, like flipping a tower or keep, getting a couple map points, or maybe catching and killing some stragglers or a smaller zerg, before I die and have to run back.
I also feel like I can skill up in siege and make a real contribution even though I may continue to suck 1v1, which would make me forever useless in an arena setting.
WvW actually feels like a mini-game version of the more strategic MMOs like World War II Online (now called Battleground Europe, I think), where it’s almost like an RTS but where all the zerglings are players.
It’s the tactical and logistical aspects that make it feel like something where even with relatively low player skill you can jump in and move the ball forward a couple yards every time (even if it gets moved right back again), as long as you’re willing to pay attention, follow a commander, make an effort to do what you’re told, and try to learn from your mistakes.