Guild Wars 2

I still do not consider myself really good. Heck, I am a clicker. I dodge 95% of time with double tap. I CLICK my stun breakers.
And usual damage breakdown when forced in combat with a backstabber: 4-5k steal, 1-2x 3.5k dancing daggers. After that they are dead or already running very far away.
Even with steal, CnD is almost impossible to land on a proper target. And heck, its melee ability that means your opponent will have every single one of his melee abilities available to him too. In spvp people pop out of stuns/immobile almost without a visible delay, move abruptly, turn around all of the time, hug the walls/cliffs with their backs, stand on friendly aoes.
Are we in a same game?

do not bother telling them to dodge BEFORE it lands. To them, thief is obviously permastealthed when he gets in range of steal and has an instant cast basilisk venom.

In spvp noone dies from backstab thief. Even hasted pistol whip is easier to land on normal people than backstab.
In wvw glass cannon thief dies the moment he steals to target because of aoe.

Perhaps some of the people are not playing this game

The issue is with effect of basilisk venom (probably a bug)
Untraited basilisk venom uses single venom charge at start of attack, effectively wasting it for almost all slow attacks before they actually finish “casting”. Traited basilisk venom has both ticks working as they should (used up at the end of swing)

its not the combo but the insane synergy between crit rate, crit damage, power and damage increasing traits for thief.

That lone ele from first vid was more competent than these fools
pve > lonely thief

ASP, if all people knew this, not just some rare pve thieves, we would have a second top tier competetive mmo already.

You gotta see it to believe it. So for people to believe how bad thieves actually are they need to see them. But they can’t. Because thieves are in stealth!

people who have no idea, please, refrain from providing your assistance, thank you

you will not be successful in main part of the spike if you dont bring devourer venom and assa signet at least.

basilisk venom? haste? roll? in a backstab burst build? Are you sure you see it right?

We have weapon sets to deal with first. Sad, but true. As for traits – they all will have to be reworked sooner or later.

Very nice, these kinds of videos make people want to play and try harder.
Ele was rather patient, rare sight

Shsh. Do not let them to actually find out that necros are op even with bugs. Do you know how much easier is it for me to kill a thief than a necro? I wasn’t playing whole day when i tried necro for the first time and had 40k hp with elite in arena

yes it is viable and bit more reliable than d/d for single targets but is hard where constant avoidance is needed
edit: Babel answered it rather well, conditions are strong on thief, but there are classes with more reliable condition damage. And yes, head shot alone beats all other possible benefits thief can have for a group together

For that purpose i proposed trait relocations in “thing that can use buff” thread. please feel free to come there and leave a constructive feedback.
And please make sure that that one remains one of the few where things are considered, not splattered about like here

carrion is fine, or with precision instead of power. Weapons either p/d or d/d (built-in evades). Utilities are: caltrops is a must, roll for initiative and a skill of choice. Sif of Malice for healing

1. Backstab crits for maximum of 6k, without considering all damage boosting traits
2. If mug did autoattack damage it would have been built into a steal initially not a 10-point trait (that i suggest to move to 20-point one, sadly 90% people here do not read thread not starting with “nerf X”)

man you mad? pistol shot 1 crits for 2k and you want heavy investment abilities to hit same?

Actually, intrigued by the bad feedback on p/p i tried it. The fact that astonished me is that it is actually bad in theory and facts. But most targets make it more than a viable build. If we consider dodges, range, speed, damage, movement ability of p/p set it is all far inferior to other sets. But people cannot bother themsleves countering it properly to an extent that I come on forums and say that p/p does not need buff except redesign of body shot. People just make it feel so insanely powerful and easy that when I went backstabbing I stopped taking people talking about backstab uberopness seriously.

Well I won’t say it for others. But for me, a sylvari female thief, running with a sword drawn is enough to refuse to take it even if I can perform far better with it. And I also get this warriorish feeling when battling someone with it. Slow, strong autoattacks. Nothing like that unique attack animations assasins had in gw1.

Maybe for you it is. But people will still consider 100 kills in 5 days with 1 to 10 kill/death ratio and zero impact on situation in wvw both more fun to play and far more op to complain at

Elan yours is a good example of a good build. Sword/pistol is very good even without pistol whip, but this build suffers from one thing: it does not have that “edge” or unique feel about it. It does not take anything to extreme and does not focus on anything. And for many people (especially familiar with gw1) it is first and only reason not to play it (though many try).
It simply does not shine in even some of the most specific situations. You may even contribute a lot to your allies. But you won’t get the reward.
@crewthief
The very word NERF is wrong. Nothing except most crazy things deserve a nerf. Nothing is wrong with constructive discussion. But there is almost no constructive discussion. People do not understand that constructive discussion consist of being privy to detail of issue (not just its results), a justified suggestion, analysis of the impact of that suggestion in and outside of the issue, a baseline for a further improvement.
If every nerfthis nerfthat thread had one of those for every 10 bad ones (i think im tanky guardian in glass cannon set and thief hits me for half hp nerf him to the ground) it would make me much more assured that actual needed fixes will make it to the devs’ minds. But when there is 10 pages of posts with zero data, zero analysis and no concern for consequences I am really afraid devs might miss something that is actually valuable, so I post to make up for it.

i am feeling exactly what Narkosys.5173 said. I know it is pointless most of the time to bring in argument and defend something, but if I don’t do that I will have to blame myself is something bad really happens (assa signet was rebalanced as per suggetions, but pistol whip was nerfed to the ground with qq)

-_- please don’t compliment these kind of armors too much or devs will continue to think that when everything looks like that it is ok

Because warrior is so far the only proffesion to be clearly stated to be played by devs, the only proffesion that devs stated to be balanced and by the fact that everything about looks and usability is only applied fully to warriors now.

very bad looking flame legion armor because i don’t have gold for skins

you can hit 4.2k mug w/o any preparation with other stats?
i deliberately fixed my screen to provide comparision of my mug and his, with only uncertainty being i had 15 stacks of might upon encounter and he did not

Babel you miss the point. People claim to have 2k tough and be hit for more than I am
8k backstabs on glass cannon target do not bother me even a single bit. If i wanted he would never even had a chance to land one.

I was not demonstrating the opness of backstab, i demonstrated the contradiction that exists on this forum.
PS. I am not backstab thief I was simply wearing my unsigiled daggers to prevent accidental killing of my opponent with my uberguns and also to demonstrate the ostats that thief was most likely to have

I just went into wvw so see formyself. I patiently waited with my glass cannon build in a middle of open field for a thief to backstab me.
And now I am kinda disappointed in a good chunk of community on forums

edit: excuse me, my proof was not visible on that screenshot here another one.

Explanation of situation: i was standing somewhere in eb, i was just testing how fast i can pop 4 signets for 20 stacks of might, when i noticed incoming thief (i had 5 stacks of might at that moment). He tried to cnd+steal on me but i was afraid i might get downed by that before getting hit with backstab so I stealed to him to prevent him from landing cnd on me. So my mug with 15 stacks of might and assasin signet hit him for 4.8k, his one hit me for 4.2k and he didnt use any signets. That makes us pretty even in stats. I though I might not get hit with backstab like this, but luckily for me he had shadow refuge. And he hit me (unmoving target with zero defense and no will to resist) for a whoooping 8k. Rounded up.

problem was never in raw damage. problem is in a-net for the first time doing separate crit chance stat WITH crit power on top of it. They just could not account for every situation yet with this rather flawed mechanic. Flawed to the point that damage does not exist when there are not crits.

Okay here is my little part of thoughts that address some of the issues:
Do note that this is proposed as one whole change, and is only a part of a bigger rework I am still figuring out:

Hidden Killer moved to Shadow Arts last tier
This will either remove guaranteed critical from backstab of glass cannon thieves or will force them to spec out of power / crit power line to obtain. Also will give buff to Shadow arts tree that will make much more sense.

Shadow’s Rejunevation moved to Shadow arts tier 2
This will tone down stealth sitting a tiny bit by forcing those that try to sit in stealth to either go for the third tier or choose only one Heal/Initiative regen in stealth.

Power Shots moved to Deadly arts tier 1
As shortbow being a straight utility with only one damaging attack, moving this trait to power tree start will make this one more viable and much more synergized with the trait trees.

Mug moved to Deadly arts tier 2
Again, moving this to tier 2 will make it mutually exclusive with dagger damage increase, further toning down glass cannon backstab burst

Impovisation redesigned and moved to Deadly arts tier 3
This ability provides at best 60% chance to do something good once every 45 seconds.
The randomness at this level will not be tolerated, and this is a good first candidate for a redesign and filling a tier 3 deadly arts slot. I have ideas of what could go here but none of them are formidable yet.

Panic Strikes moved to Critical strikes tier 2
The power of this trait does not match its standing in tier 3 and has zero synergy with that trait tree. Given deadly arts focus on venoms, devourer venom will be much more of use than this trait for the purposes of that trait line. Moving this to Critical strikes makes this easier to obtain for those who rely on crit more and provides outstanding synergy with trait line tier 1 Fury on 50% and tier 3 20% damage on enemies below 50% health.

Critical Haste cooldown decreased and moved to critical strikes tier 3
The power of quickness demands this to be taken higher and to be mutually exclusive with the damage-boosting abilities. As a trade-off, up time is increased to be more reliable for a tier 3 talent.

I will address more issues later, hope this much will at least be partially considered
Edit: few typos and feel free to provide feedback and/or suggestion, will be much appreciated

My last post for today
Arctic Red, if we talk about the extent of mobility both warrior and ele can outperform any thief.
For higher burst thief stands on top of only by damage/time part of its effective time of burst.
Best escapes: we share the same best escapes with other classes, we just have access to more of them
Stealth is a trademark of a thief. Even at that mesmer can have more effective stealth than good chunk of thief builds
If you replace best/most/etc in your post with decent/good when specced that way it will be much more objective

Sorry, I will just repost here for a hope of getting more attention

Guys what do you think about this kind of a fix: moving hidden killer trait (100% crit chance in stealth) into a shadow arts last tier?
This will solve many problems:
1) backstabs will either not crit with 100% chance or people will have to sacrifice power/crit damage for it, and non-glass build will not suffer because they don’t go there anyway
2) shadow arts trait line will get buffed and will result in even more thieves speccing out of glass cannon backstabs
Perhaps if there are enough people willing to bet on this, we could draw a-net’s attention to this kind of soft/preliminary fix if they have not thought of it already

If you want to combine dungeons, farming and pvp then condition d/d set will be the best choice for a start.
You can buy exotics for dungeon tokens. As for stats condition damage and one defensive stat on every piece will do (though as a condition build i will suggest to prefer vit over tough)

You are already given a choice who to target with steal. Giving another to select what you want to use will be a bit overboard, as it will put stolen item effect before steal mechanic in terms of importance, perhaps even overpowering an already barely balanced ability

Guys, please provide feedback on suggestion (my post 630394 on this page) as a soft temporary/preliminary fix/buff to this issue

CnD cannot be made interruptable by steal. Only steal can be made to interrupt cnd at which point it will also interrupt other skills and that cannot be accepted.

You know, this is actually not just pve issue. It is the fatal flaw of the class atm that results in it being able to perform at high levels (of gameplay) only as a pure damage. Basically, farthest you can go as a thief in pve is full glass cannon d/d or p/p. This will create some incredible difficulties but will at least reward you with sweet numbers and fast kills outside dungeons
Engineer is probably the most fun prof atm. Even with downside of amount of weapon sets, engineer brings more than anyone into play

Replace on of the traps effects with “When triggered, spreads caltrops in the area”
This kind of trap will provide enough viability to be taken in many specs even with a solid cooldown

Guys what do you think about this kind of a nerf: moving hidden killer trait (100% crit chance in stealth) into a shadow arts last tier?
This will solve many problems:
1) backstabs will either not crit with 100% chance or people will have to sacrifice power/crit damage for it, and non-glass build will not suffer bacause they dont go here anyway
2) shadow arts trait line will get buffed and will result in even more thieves speccing out of glass cannon backstabs

Perhaps if there are enough people willing to bet on this, we could draw a-net’s attention to this kind of soft/preliminary fix if they have not thought of it already

blind and weakness wont save you or guardian in dugeons really. it will all come down to dodging (that thief has option to improve) or defensive buffs (guardian superior in this).
Sadly this takes guardian into the lead. Some parties will go as far as to kick a thief to get a guardian instead. Thief alone must sacrifice too much to be able to deal with everything alone (dodging, healing, condition curing) while guardian has more of both healing and defense against conditions and an added benefit of being able to provide them for party as well.

Downside of thief pve is that you either need to be much more active (because mistakes go harder on thieves) than most other classes or have a very specialized build for some purpose with good gear to be able to do it with some degree of easiness.
Sadly it is more about the design of the weapon skills and other limitations introduced in gw2 than just a thief problem. I suggest shortbowing your way through everything until you can be confident in your understanding of other weapon sets such as d/d 3rd skill, s/p 3rd and 5th skill.
Until then shortbow + caltrops + speed signet and maybe shadow refuge or ambush trap is the easiest way. If you can avoid fighting much ranged mobs.

I am not against nerf. I am against bs nerf (because its my only attack in non glass-cannon build), against steal nerf (its me only way to get caltrops to one-shotting boss) and against mug nerf (i need it to counter bs glass cannon thieves that i never played yet). Maybe you want C’n’D nerf? Suggest something that won’t ruin my builds that were never mentioned in your posts and I’ll agree.

Do you intend to hold you ground alone against any opponent for infinite amount of time? Not in this game.
Hey. I dont use backstab but i need mug.

Actually someone suggested something I am ashamed to not think of before.
If non-elite venoms could be reworked from utilities to class ability on par with steal (f2-f3-f4) and couple with a few reworks in traits will make an incredible improvement to thief’s viability in team play.
This will raise the effectiveness of utility builds such as venom share, while removing the need to address current problems with venom usage (like ticks into thin air/abilities that use them up but don’t apply) and will allow space for actual utility skills

I do try to answer any question posted in this subforum that I can answer.
Just be sure to make or up a thread with a sensible name for it, I don’t have enough will to re-read every nerf-this nerf-that one.

I do have an issue with backstab glass cannon thieves. Just one. When they go down instantly from my glass cannon thief build, they become much more dangerous, annoying and harder to kill than those still running around. So I call for the downed state rebalancing for thief.

im going easy on those that want backstab nerfs. but i wont go easy on those who want to remove my ability to teleport-cast evil things into enemy zergs. Because its practically one of very few strong points of guild wars that actually made it to gw2.
Back to topic: i want to remind everyone AGAIN that range on untraited steal is 900. 900 means at least 2k range thief must walk in open to get in range of his steal, and 600 of them being easy and squishy target for long range attacks. I doubt any thief is capable of getting over 2k range faster than you can at least turn in his direction and place your finger on a stun breaker

you demand nerf for a thiefs that can’t do anything to you? or nerf for yourself?