Guild Wars 2

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To be fair, I think it’s mostly [ct] doing the camping. They’re one of the few guilds which I deem “kill-on-sight” due to their past misdemeanors.

Tarnished Coast member here:

I enjoy and respect the presence of Yak’s Bend in Tier 3. What they lack in manpower, they compensate with tactical and strategic ingenuity. They strike with precision; they do not waste resources on our heavy fortifications, and always strike us where our guard is down.

A recent example is an incident at Cragtop. Knowing that few people would expect an attack there on a monochrome map, ARMA from Yak’s Bend managed to quickly steal the tower and build several Superior Ballistas and Arrow Carts. The siege would hold off wave after wave of our infantry; by the time we overwhelmed them, we had lost a significant portion of our map (which we later took back quickly due to our superior population size).

A more populated Yak’s Bend would mean a greater commitment to organization for the Tarnished Coast, if we intend to maintain our lead.

One thing though; you Yaks clearly have no desire to preserve the beautiful peace within the Jumping Puzzle when you have the advantage there. Yes it’s supposed to be a war, but that’s exactly what makes the peace beautiful!

Tammuz.7361:

The fair solution would simply be to put in a line of code that says more or less: if thief stealth is active, then thief cannot prevent from capping.

No need to nerf thief stealth directly…

I do believe this is an oversight, because a stealthed thief is not allowed to cap a point right now, but their stealth can prevent an enemy team from capping which is the issue.

The question is: if this is an oversight, why haven’t they fixed it already? Wouldn’t this have been fixed in the last patch if it were unintended?

Iarkrad.8415:

I’m looking for a good critical based PvE build, for the thief i’m going to start working on soon. Any suggestions?

Restrictions: Human, weps sword main hand (idk dagger or pistol) and shortbow for secondary wep, significant amount of either vit or toughness from equipment, preferably lots of stealth and decent-high acrobatics.

For all i know, the perfect thief build with these restrictions might be impossible. But can anyone try?

I have the perfect build for you, but the Berserker gear requirement may be expensive.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsYVlcmaPncS+E+5EymiKUo4e4UGVS1pgr0KA;TsAg0CnoUyokQJrSOlkKtsYEx0CA

(Get Runes of Divinity if you’re rich enough, otherwise Runes of Rage are an adequate substitute)

Features:

• Successful Cloak and Dagger applies stealth, blinds opponents, removes conditions and heals you.

• Stealth attack dazes opponents.

• Feline Grace gives you more evasion than the average player.

• Completely Berserker equipment makes all your attacks deadly.

• Signets restore 2 initiative and have reduced cool-down.

• Dagger Storm + Signet of Malice = Massive Healing + Damage.

• More toughness and vitality than other glass-cannons due to trait points.

This build focuses on maximizing Evasion, Blind, Stealth and Healing to compensate for Berserker equipment. When things get too hairy, the Shortbow is there for extra Range and Evasion.

This is a build I use for high level Fractals. My role is to inflict massive multi-target damage and shut-down dangerous (but daze-vulnerable) targets. I also have two area stealth utilities for reviving allies and completing Fractal objectives.

May I speak with (have the names/id of) [Hako] members on Fort Aspenwood?

Specifically two Asuran Thieves and a Guardian who were taking camps not too long ago.

Peetee.9406:

buki.3108:

Rendering cannot be fixed to the amount of models that WvW needs.

This gentlemen is correct. Rendering is an unfixable issue unless you want to run around as stick men.

Why can’t we simply run around as stick men when we’re not finished rendering?

I commissioned a talented member of the community to draw this for me.

WvW is unaffected. Only the mists are affected.

Bad link, could you leave the full URL’s in so that we could copy and paste?

I wish I could put Smokescreen on. However, Shadow Refuge is mandatory and so is Infiltrator’s Signet (stun-breaker + blink with short cool-down). Signet of Shadows was chosen over Smokescreen because of its passive +25% movement speed and because I have the Signet Use trait.

Yeah, the first four players were not stellar. But I am positive the ‘fight’ (I really just sulked around waiting for backup) with [NAGA] members is with a pretty organized group. At the very least, they communicated, they knew how to counter stealth-stomps, and they had their own Thieves threatening to burst me down at a moment’s notice.

So it was prudent to poke them until help arrives.

My own performance could have been much better as well:

• I hesitated for more than 2 seconds in the first fight when the Ranger popped her elite on me, and that Shadow Refuge should have been saved for later (luckily I didn’t need it later).

• That same first fight, I chose to use Dagger Storm to take down the rezzer. Switching to Sword/Dagger to spam Dancing Dagger + Tactical Strike would have been smarter.

• I should not have broken off my assault of that really squishy NAGA Thief at 2:02.

• Underwater fight was a big face-palm, should have switched to Harpoon Gun sooner.

• Leaped right into a fear trap at 6:12, among other derps. That engineer should not have went down at all – it was 2v1 and I have a 1v1 advantage.

• Should have used Infiltrator’s Signet to blink past the Mesmer’s cripple barrier at 7:29. It would have landed a Backstab at the same time. Could have killed him before he jumped off the wall.

The Black Powder + Heartseeker combo is featured in a demonstration where the Thief was able to delay a large group of enemies from capturing a friendly camp with indefinitely sustainable stealth techniques: http://vimeo.com/52977465 (uploaded to Vimeo, because youtube glitched out at the time)

Some respondents doubted the utility of the build beyond the obscure role of capture denial. Hence the following video illustrates the sheer versatility of Black Powder + Heartseeker in a series of WvW clashes.

While performance from both the Thief and her enemies is sub-optimal, the mechanics behind Black Powder + Heartseeker are clearly documented.

The Thief in this video uses the same build as the previous video:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoa8YlcmaPncy5E+5ExmieKUuHO1oNtTRUtKA;TwAg0CnoUyokQJrSOlkKtIYswOjJBA

Hekatombaion.4320:

TC definitely doesn’t seem to care about how many people are in a camp though. They’re happy to run forty people over to kill five.

In our defense, guard duty at certain times of the day is quite monotonous; so the opportunity for bloodshed attracts us like bees to a honey-pot.

This is how WvW should be!

Here’s a potentially controversial line-of-thought: wouldn’t it be fitting for there to be a Thief + Mesmer WvW guild called “Crows of Antiva” on Tarnished Coast?

Rovaeden.8546:

Iohanna.4863:

You shouldn’t try to go Toughness + Healing with S/D. It’s a weapon set that excels best with Precision + Stealth specialization. This creates a glass-cannon stealth Thief with a constant output of Dazes and superior mobility (via Infiltrator’s Strike).

Against a single target:

• Infiltrator’s Strike > Cloak & Dagger > Tactical Strike > Auto-attacks.

Against two are three targets (like an enemy reviving a downed enemy):

• Dancing Dagger x 3 + Auto-attacks.

Remember, in PvP a Thief depends heavily on Stealth and DPS to avoid damage. It’s hard to hit something you cannot see, and a panicked enemy is more likely to reach for his heals and escape skills rather than attack you (which your Dazes will interrupt).

Thanks for the reply Iohanna, but this IS what I have been doing. The Stealth talent line IS the Toughness / Healing line by the way. The issue I have seems to be that I don’t do enough damage to kill the target before I get 2 shot (everywhere), my blind / daze / immobilize / cripple never seems to land (in pvp / wvw), my stealth seems to constantly fail / be ignored (everywhere) and I am wearing paper for armor.

Now I say everywhere, but I’m ok when fighting 1 mob and only one mob. Unless I am in a under 40 zone I can usually take out 2-5 mobs without too much trouble. In zones 40+ I get smoked if I get 2 mobs on me. I just cannot seem to put out the damage required to kill them and I dont have the durability to tank them. No im not standing still. Yes I circle strafe and dodge. I have tried a Power and Stealth build, I have tried a power, precision build, as I think about it, i have tried every 2 line combo except power and trickery.
None seem to give me a good balance of damage and durability with the S/D… well, no durability at all even with 30 points Stealth (Toughness / healing) with a full Toughness gear set… im still wearing wet paper. : /

It appears you haven’t reached level 80 yet. This means that many trait, skill and gear options are not available for you yet. My response assumed you were a level 80 fully exotic WvW player.

For PvE, I’d much rather recommend Sword/Pistol because you can just Pistol Whip your way to victory (mobs are very predictable, just use Pistol Whip as your ‘dodge’). Focus completely on initiative regeneration and damage.

When you’re a level 80 fully exotic WvW veteran however, Sword/Dagger becomes one of the best ‘pursuit’ load-outs, and is one of the best ways to shut-down a particularly disruptive enemy (such as a ballista operator or another Thief).

You shouldn’t try to go Toughness + Healing with S/D. It’s a weapon set that excels best with Precision + Stealth specialization. This creates a glass-cannon stealth Thief with a constant output of Dazes and superior mobility (via Infiltrator’s Strike).

Against a single target:

• Infiltrator’s Strike > Cloak & Dagger > Tactical Strike > Auto-attacks.

Against two are three targets (like an enemy reviving a downed enemy):

• Dancing Dagger x 3 + Auto-attacks.

Remember, in PvP a Thief depends heavily on Stealth and DPS to avoid damage. It’s hard to hit something you cannot see, and a panicked enemy is more likely to reach for his heals and escape skills rather than attack you (which your Dazes will interrupt).

This has got to be one of the best match-ups ever!

More information and discussion here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12ruhs/thief_proof_of_concept_permanent_stealth/

The Leap Finisher actually applies damage before the stealth, so the Black Powder + Heartseeker combo is extremely powerful with Berserker gear. It’s:

• a gap closer
• a Projectile Blind
• a Smoke Field
• an execution skill through Heartseeker
• a Stealth through Combo Leap
• a Condition remover from Stealth traits
• a heal from Stealth traits
• a free Backstab from Stealth

If you meet a Thief that appears to be attacking without breaking Stealth, it is this Thief.

Daecollo.9578:

Please think about what you say, this spec is only good for this one thing, it is almost useless on a 1v1 fight because you would either have no initiative, and as soon as your leap finisher hit a target you would get revealed, so you cannot backstab using it.

Please read the additional information on the Reddit thread. This spec is primarily for sPvP (1v1, 2v2); the leap finisher applies damage before stealth. So no, you don’t get revealed and yes, you can spam Blinds and Backstabs all day with this spec.

It’s initiative demanding yes, but it’s nothing that cannot be conquered with good initiative management.

WakkaJabba.3910:

there s no counter to this special ability atm.

we can dodge high dmg, or simply kill the pets that other professions have as their main feature. for thieves, atm the counter is to have everybody in the group spam aoe and hope the thieve is standing still.

With Black Powder perma-stealth, just stand in the Smoke Field. If the Thief doesn’t reveal themselves by hitting you, they run out of initiative and you can shred them.

Spamming AOEs should only be used as a deterrent, to protect Thieves from achieving their objectives. You’ll catch many greedy Thieves by spamming AOE over a downed player or a harassed siege equipment. Also remember to revive your downed players; this undoes all the hard work the Thief put into downing that player.

Remember, the Thief is predominantly only a threat to a single target. Sometimes it’s best to just completely ignore them. Trying to kill them is usually inefficient.

Additionally, this kind of perma-stealth is easily countered by following the smoke trail and standing in the Smoke Field.

If it comforts you, ANet reportedly has found a fix to the culling issue, and will implement it by the next patch.

Piriel.5197:

Iohanna.4863:

Trickyg.8752:

and after all this you’re pretty much useless.

Backstabs aren’t useless.

Look at the build as well. No Hidden Killer, and all the traits are used for stealth increased duration, hp regeneration in stealth, and condition removal in stealth. This is not a BS build, this is a survivability build. BS with those traits and 49% (at best) crit chance is a prayer. Even on a crit I’d be surprised if it hits for more than 4k.

There is a fair amount of points in the precision tree, but it’s the full Berserker gear + Runes of Rage that really make this a backstab build.

With 58% crit-rate, Hidden Killer is somewhat of a waste.

Trickyg.8752:

and after all this you’re pretty much useless.

Backstabs aren’t useless.

Webley.1295:

When you got trapped was when it went wrong – The hunters should have done this much sooner

That is the way to stop people like us doing the silly thing of wasting time

I dont like the build to be fair, its a build to stop capping, its pretty useless…

The trap I would have just shrugged off with stealth condition removal; it was the Thief who got in my way in the end.

As for the build, this is actually an sPvP backstab build so it’s exceptionally powerful in 1v1 and 2v2. Constant stealth, constant blinds, constant condition removal, constant healing; it’s quite a resilient set of utilities for a glass-cannon.

It’s less effective in a zerg however; although I can release a punishing (full Berserker) Dagger Storm every 90 seconds relatively safely (Shadow Return from Sword can bring me far away after the storm is finished), my activities are mostly restricted to harassment and ninja-stomps. With 50+ bloodthirsty invaders around you, it’s really difficult to do much else.

Video: https://vimeo.com/52977465

Additional Information: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12ruhs/thief_proof_of_concept_permanent_stealth/

The video is here: https://vimeo.com/52977465

Additional information can be viewed on the Reddit thread. http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12ruhs/thief_proof_of_concept_permanent_stealth/

There is no easy answer to the problem, but how about this:

When anyone leaves stealth, instead of a tiny shadow pop on the ground, why not something like a shadow explosion?

I’m sure that if the game can immediately render a tiny shadow pop, something flashier is no big deal, right?

For the record, it’s iohanna.

That ‘i’ has prevented a fair bit of messages and keep upgrade donations from reaching me.

If you can learn how to make maximum use of your dodges, skills, and combo fields as a front-line Elementalist, your presence at the head of a zerg will be most terrifying.

If you can master stealth and assassination as a Thief, your presence within the enemy zerg will frustrate them to no end.

It appears that links to the build editor need to be copy-and-pasted to work.

Also remember that every Thief enjoys some degree of freedom from cool-downs for weapon skills with the initiative system.

1) Attacking while in stealth without breaking it.
I probably just dropped out of stealth naturally, and used another Black Powder + Heartseeker combo. We don’t have a “revealed” cool-down if stealth wears off naturally.

2) Being out of stealth for 1/8th of a second……and unhitable while out.
The whole point of this build was to maximize my ability to stealth; both in and out of combat. Cloak & Dagger was deemed unreliable, and I arrived at Black Powder + Heartseeker in my search for alternate sources of stealth. I’m glad it’s working ^^;

As for being invulnerable out of stealth: Thieves can dodge twice as much as other classes. Hence, I save my dodges for any time that I’m out of stealth.

3) AOE does nothing
Yes, most people miss their AOEs because they assume I’m a Cloak & Dagger thief. I stealth with Heartseeker, so you can’t just target the area I disappeared in (I’m already far away).

Some people catch on and start AOEing their low health team-mates (these are my primary targets). If I get too greedy, this kills me. However if there aren’t enough AOEs, I shrug it off with my condition removal and healing.

Here’s the build I run for WvW (copy and paste, don’t click, something wrong with the redirection): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoa8YlcmaPncy5E+5ExmidKUuHO1oNtTRUtKA;TABg0ynEOJdS9kyJKlMKJUyqkTJpSLCGEszYGB

I sometimes swap out the Sword/Dagger for a Shortbow, when I need massive AOE damage.

I’ll tell you some of my fears:

• I would never try to take down someone fully specced for survival, 1v1 or otherwise (unless it’s a gank). I’m not as bursty as other thieves, so I can’t do enough damage to these people. Usually I just disengage and find a squishier target.

• I fear other glass-cannons just as much as they fear me. An enemy thief’s cluster-bomb is especially scary. Hasted 100 blades and Pistol Whip will finish me if I don’t luck out and escape with Infiltrator’s Signet.

• Front-line Elementalists are beasts of nature. I have never been able to challenge them by myself. It almost feels like they have it all: healing, protection, damage, conditions, control, etc. I imagine these are Elementalists who really know how to make maximum use of their combos; because they are very rare. Lots of respect for these guys.

@Zarthias

I don’t know about what you’ve seen, but as a Thief from Serenity of the Moon (though i represent PiNK in WvW), I’d like to point you towards Dagger/Pistol as an extraordinarily powerful stealth-assassin build that is consistent with what you have seen.

Black Powder + Heartseeker is a very powerful combo leap. Though it costs 9 initiative (7 with traits), it is:
* a gap closer
* a smoke field
* a projectile blind (through smoke field)
* an execution skill (the damage from Heartseeker applies before the stealth)
* a guaranteed source of stealth (without interruptions like daze or stun)
* via-stealth, a source of backstab

I can trait myself to remove conditions, gain 2 stacks of might for 15 seconds, and heal during stealth.

It is possible to spam this relatively frequently with enough initiative regeneration. It is also possible to gain multiple stacks of stealth by doing 1-2 additional Heartseekers over the smoke field (true perma-stealth), as long as I don’t hit anything with those additional Heartseekers.

Your description of ‘speed hacks’ and ‘exploiting stealth somehow’ seems consistent with my build. I don’t know for certain because I’ve never gotten a good look at an enemy Thief with the same build (no idea why it’s such an unpopular build, it’s quite “OP”). I imagine that my enemies see me constantly disappearing, only to reappear behind them. I don’t know why my enemies don’t just estimate my location from where the smoke field pops ups.

I am a human Thief with blonde short hair, wearing the human T3 cultural. Is this the Thief you saw?

I hope this clears things up.