Nothing protects a point better than a Staff Bunker Celestial Auramancer.
Playing one is not very difficult – at the bare minimum, where you are completely unfamiliar with the build, and you are just spamming everything while staying in Earth attunement – you shoud be able to hold the point indefinitely against any single player.
At a higher level you are more than just a Bunker – you provide insane defensive support for your team mates, and point denial with your vast array of AOEs. If the enemy has a troublesome Bunker as well, swap out a utility for Lightning Hammer to kick them off.
It’s just too easy to be a learn2play issue. Naysayers need to learn2build.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XC9XiVYCOYCcYilNAzdv+XPsErgUwIY4BEAugA-TJRJwAAeAA02fg7FA4XZAA
There are two discouraging things about playing a Revenant for me. One is the underwater problem – the other is Bunkering in SPVP. I can’t seem to hold a point against more than one person as a Revenant.
Has anyone else had any luck? Or is Revenant simply unsuited for Bunkering?
Question was mostly directed towards OP.
Very nice numbers. Have you considered Arcana/Air/Tempest Fresh Air build? I think it might be able to achieve comparable results to Fire/Air/Tempest staff build.
I just think the trigger should be any attunement swap, not just water. Add a 5 sec icd or something if necessary.
No thanks. Im a PVE staff DPS Fire/Air/Tempest using the shouts. And the regen it gives me is awsome for surviving the HoT jungle. The regen is more useful to me than the condi removal.
You are not a dps ele if you’re using tempest. Bountiful Power alone is a great 6-15% damage buff.
Air/Arcana/Tempest
Done. Enjoy the lightning!
Enjoy the lack of persisting flames, which greatly reduces your DPS and fury provision for your group.
Tempest traitline needs damage modifiers and damage boosting traits somewhere, and no a 5 sec 10% buff from a 20 sec cd 4 sec cast overload is nowhere close to sufficient.
Persisting Flames was only taken to upgrade Lava Font. Vanilla Ele only has about 1-3 Blast Finishers for Fury – it is nowhere near the amount of Fury you can get from auras.
You sacrifice Ferocious Winds (Ferocity from Precision), but if you do the math that trait only gives a full Ascended Berserker Ele about +4.5% overall damage at 100% crit (because 230% vs 220% crit damage is not that much).
What I just said is irrelevant however, because Overload Air and Lightning Whip simply have much higher base damage (and Overload Air applies AOE stacks of vulnerability over a wide area). Even when you lose the damage and cool-down modifiers in Fire spec, Fresh Air/Arcana/Tempest completely outclasses Vanilla DPS Ele.
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No thanks. Im a PVE staff DPS Fire/Air/Tempest using the shouts. And the regen it gives me is awsome for surviving the HoT jungle. The regen is more useful to me than the condi removal.
You are not a dps ele if you’re using tempest. Bountiful Power alone is a great 6-15% damage buff.
Air/Arcana/Tempest
Done. Enjoy the lightning!
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Zenith appears to live in a world where his entire party is perfect and never gets hit by anything. No need for permanent Protection, Healing, Vigor, Regeneration, and so on – just need damage!
It didn’t turn out that bad. The bunker spec for pvp is actually stronger than the whole spec. The staff spec I am running for PvE does more damage than the old meta and it’s an interesting way to play.
But for PvP, it’s still a bunker and nothing new.
And a whole lot of other stuff is a lot stronger.
You had a go at Bunker Tempest right? It was more of an upgrade than an alternative to the traditional Bunker Ele yeah?
You probably won’t find anyone else more satisfied with the Tempest than I am, but I agree: Rebound is quite lackluster as an elite, and some stability on it would be nice. Even with all the aura synergy I have on my Tempest build, choosing between Rebound and Fiery Greatsword is a tough choice.
Thanks for sharing the build. I did try it for 5 games last night…
Definitely it is extremely hard to die with this build. In teamfights if you concentrate on only using earth overload, you generally won’t be interrupted. The problem is this locks you out of earth for 20sec… So in general overloading still might not be worth it. I feel like the build might be most effective if you do not ever overload unless in a favorable situation (2v1, 3v1 in your favor). In that sense it’s a ‘win-more’ skill.
In terms of damage output it is quite low, as expected. It is hard to kill someone unless you can off an Overload Air without being interrupted (very rare).
I will reiterate what I said earlier in the thread: support Tempest can be fairly powerful and useful. But it requires good team coordination. I feel like this build could succeed in ESL where a pro team coordinates to benefit most from auras, shouts etc.
In solo queue I found it a very helpless situation where I felt like I had little effect on the outcome of the match. It’s like the opposite of being a carry. You can win with this build if the rest of your team is solid, but if they are somewhat weak, you are pretty much screwed. Personally I enjoy having a more active role in fights that can turn entire matches around.
Thanks for trying it out! I had the opportunity to get a few hours of PVP with this build last night, and I found that practice has allowed me to carry the team – regardless of their skill level. I had 11 games, won 9, lost 2. One was because I volunteered to get auto balanced (wanted to see how long I could last against 4 player focus fire – 15 seconds, surprisingly long), another was because the difference in performance between the teams was simply too great for my presence to compensate for. I have some tips that may help:
- I’ve been quite loud about Earth attunement, but you absolutely must learn to use the other attunements to get the most out of this build.
- Earth is best used to tank your opponent’s more damaging abilities so that you are safer when using your other attunements. You can camp Earth to let your Shouts recharge in a safe place.
- A good time to switch out of Earth is after you’ve gained a ton of protection from aura spam.. Don’t underestimate the protection boon, and don’t underestimate auras.
- Earth 2 blasts Water 4 to give area Frost Aura; this is my favorite way to switch. Frost Aura grants you an additional 10% damage reduction – you already have 40% from protection and may have 10% from Earth minor trait, so against opponents in close range you have a whopping 60% damage reduction after the switch.
- You have reduced Water cool downs, don’t be afraid to pop everything. In particular I like to use Overload Water even if I’m at full health – it extends my regeneration + protection boons, tanks conditions, and gives Frost Aura if I manage to finish it.
- Fire is excellent, you should do your best to drop a few Fire skills when Earth is on vacation. Fire 2 and 3 have extremely short cast times, and Fire 4 is a very nice evade. Don’t be afraid to cast Fire 5, you should still have protection and if you get CCed, Overload Fire should be available by then to break stun.
- I typically start/enter fights with Air 5 plus Overload Air. Air 3 is nice for interrupting stomps. But Air does not usually see much fighting for me. I mostly use Air whenever I need swiftness.
- You have perma vigor! Don’t forget to dodge!
- Don’t worry about all the complaints about Tempest on the forums. I wouldn’t mind a Tempest buff that makes me even more unstoppable!
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Yes, you start in Air; forgot to mention that because that’s how I run around in PVE.
You only trigger 10-20 seconds cool-down if you switch out of fire shortly after an Overload Fire.
Staff Ele doesn’t quite have enough blast finishers (Arcane Brilliance, Earth 2, what else? Arcane Wave is terrible) to rely solely on blasting fire fields for Fury.
I find that the perma-Fury from Auras gives me far more damage than the additional Ferocity from Ferocious Winds. Note that even at 100% crit chance, +1% crit damage does not equal +1% overall damage – because we all have base 150% crit damage.
Also perma-Fury from Auras frees up my heal slot for a better heal.
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You cannot take Invigorating Torrents and the 100% needed stability trait at the same time.
Tempest is just…meh.
You only get one stack of stability. Overload Earth has natural stability, and if you’re going Fresh Air you can just wait 5-7 seconds for your next Overload. Invigorating Torrents is far better.
I have always played an aggressive Fire/Earth/Arcane/Water build, (I gave up water in HoT). I’ve glanced at Tempest, but because I have very little interest in pvp I haven’t gotten to play with it, and in pve (just barely unlocked it, not even the first trait). So I’m just curious before I dive headfirst into HP if Tempest has any offensive potential. For a zerker type build (I really haven’t seen much other than supporting/ tanky build)
Thoughts? Build suggestions?
For PVE, Tempest is an upgrade to the Fire/Air/Water Staff DPS Elementalist. With Icebow 4 nerfed, it is difficult to take advantage of that +20% damage to foes with Vulnerability, and thus Water is no longer a mandatory spec.
Fire/Air/Tempest Staff DPS Elementalist lets you add Overload Fire to your standard Lava Font, Flame Burst, Meteor Shower, auto attack spam. You can switch to Air while you are casting Meteor Shower to add Overload Air into your spam rotation. Shouts and Overloads can give you perma-Fury (and Swiftness) if you take the relevant trait in Air spec.
Don’t listen to the naysayers about Tempest in PVP – Earth/Water/Tempest Staff Ele is perhaps the best Bunker in the entire game. I really don’t understand why people can’t see this.
- “…the damage is definitely good…”
- “…it’s really not that fun…”
- “…I’m overall lukewarm, even if this becomes the DPS go-to build…”
WP mostly confirms that in replacing Water, Tempest does more damage than the PVE Staff DPS meta that we are used to. It’s just not as fun as other elite specs – our play style doesn’t change very much when we use Tempest.
As for me, I can’t get enough of that low-pitched “vBDOOooo” sound effect that plays every time I shout, so the lack of something new to play with is a non-issue.
Build Editor hasn’t been updated yet for Invigorating Torrents, but here is the Immortal Tempest build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XC9XiVYCOYCcYilNAzdv+XPsErgUwIY4BEAugA-TJRJwAAeAA02fg7FA4XZAA
The key thing about Staff Bunker Eles is that Earth gives near perma-weakness (it’s not permanent if they dodge) via auto-attack vs 1 enemy, on top of crit-immunity (which completely negates any Precision and Ferocity your opponent may have invested in). That perma-weakness is what lets you completely repel any single enemy, regardless of their skill level or build. I mean come on, you’re already immune to crits and (practically immune to) conditions – how does a single player stand any chance of forcing you off if they also have to deal with weakness? And they also have to worry about their own health – you still do pretty good damage even though you’re a bunker.
The key thing about Tempest that enhances Staff Bunker Ele is that Shouts are better than Cantrips: more heals, protection, cleansing, and Magnetic Aura while you’re camping Earth. And having Overload Earth without sacrificing any utility slots is very nice. And having protection reduce damage by 40% instead of 33% is also nice.
Pre-HoT Staff Bunker Eles needed to switch into Water and Fire regularly for additional heals, evades, and AOE pressure; Earth + Cantrips did not give you everything you needed.
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1v1 you camp Earth attunement, and you CANNOT DIE. You don’t even need to move. Nothing beyond overwhelming numbers hurts you. Your Shouts do everything for you – healing, cleansing, protection, all shared with your allies. You just pop your Shouts + Earth cool-downs, auto-attack, and laugh as their full DPS build does absolutely nothing! In fact, they’re dying instead because I’m using Celestial gear so my attacks actually hurt.
2 vs 1 is a more appropriate challenge. I actually need to switch attunements sometimes, and use my dodges, and hide behind terrain.
3 vs 1 is very difficult, but I can last 5 to 10 seconds before they force me off the point. Goal in this case is to keep enemies busy as opposed to protecting the point.
Greater odds is much of the same thing, except I abandon the point immediately.
I don’t use Tempest in PVE.
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I thought switching legends at 100 energy is bad, because energy always starts at 50 after a swap?
Tempest is a dream-come-true for Earth / Water / Arcana Bunker Support Celestial Staff Elementalists in sPVP. Replace Arcana with Tempest: no more wasting dodges to proc Evasive Arcana and constantly switching attunements to maximize benefit from Arcana.
With Shouts instead of Cantrips, you now remove 2 conditions (instead of 1) per utility slot. You also get Protection, burst heals, and Auras – all of which Cantrips lacked. You get an Armor of Earth 2.0 (Overload Earth) every 20 seconds, and it doesn’t even take up a slot! Vanilla Bunker Ele was always immune to crits in Earth attunement, but now your utilities give you enough healing, cleansing, and protection to pretty much never need to switch out of Earth! If you get grossly outnumbered, you still have the good old Unsteady Earth to cover your escape while you switch into Water to recover. Except now you also have Overload Earth to hasten your escape! (It is unfortunate that Lightning Flash must be sacrificed, but one cannot have everything.)
In a team fight, both Fire and Air have excellent damage options. And everything your Shouts give you can be SHARED TO 5 ALLIES! All that protection, heals, regen, vigor, condi-cleanses, etc.
And if you want swiftness, you have Earth 2 into Air 5, Air 4, and your Overloads.
Constant source of Regen, Vigor, Protection, and heals. Immune to crits. Practically immune to conditions. Respectable access to damage, swiftness, stability, and stun-break.
Field tested – pretty overpowered bunker! Just…no Lightning Flash.
Note that Shouts innately provide Auras to nearby allies.
You do not need Powerful Aura to be an Auramancer.
Glad to know someone is enjoying some success with this build, it’s always nice if the difference between my PVE and PVP builds are minimal.
I imagine that your fights were mostly 1v1 or alongside team-mates? Do you escape with the Assassin’s Super Speed (Shiro’s Impossible Odds) if you get stuck in 2v1, or do you stay on the point and bunker up in spite of being outnumbered?
PS: what equipment are you using?
Seklies, please use http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ to post your build. Being able to hover over traits and see their descriptions is convenient, and I have no idea what equipment you’re using.
Your build is actually also a standard PVE build – it’s what I plan to use when I fully unlock Herald. Very strong and versatile DPS build.
May I ask how you fair against conditions in sPVP? Conditions aren’t very common in PVE, but I imagine you’d have trouble against condition builds without support from allies.
Tempest is amazing for Staff Bunker build in sPvP! With condi-removal on Shout and Auras (via Invigorating Torrents – Regen and Vigor through Auras), plus Earth Attunement’s immunity to crit, plus weakness on auto-attack from Earth, plus Protection from Auras, nothing is gonna ever keep you down!
Sadly, that trait is bugged and the regen from aura doesn’t remove a condition.
There are some Maguuma Hero Points that are much easier to complete with Ventari’s insane projectile destruction capabilities.
Tempest is amazing for Staff Bunker build in sPvP! With condi-removal on Shout and Auras (via Invigorating Torrents – Regen and Vigor through Auras), plus Earth Attunement’s immunity to crit, plus weakness on auto-attack from Earth, plus Protection from Auras, nothing is gonna ever keep you down!
How does a Glint/Shiro build reliably deal against condition spam builds?
- by playing Mallyx/Shiro (Heralds have Facet of Nature – they don’t need Glint ‘that’ much)
How does Glint/Shiro break combat and escape like a D/D Ele can do (with Fiery Great Sword and Lightning Flash)?
- Super Speed after breaking stun, and Shiro’s teleport spam.
How does Glint/Shiro maintain a Stability uptime/stun break that comes close to comparing to D/D Ele?
- Stun break spam on Shiro.
Mallyx / Shiro Herald does everything.
no stunbreak on mallyx and the condi pressure is also not that great. the heal is also inferior.
No need to use torment abilities just because they’re available to you. Just spam Pain Absorption – there’s no cool down on it.
You get Stun Breaks on Legend Swap, and Shiro has Stun Breaks on demand. Yes, you will be vulnerable to CC in the 10 seconds after you have just swapped to Mallyx – but I find that an acceptable price for going from virtually no condition removal to complete immunity to conditions.
BWE2 and before I’d say the mallyx was actually pretty viable (and the best 1v1 build for the class by a good margin), however its condition pressure took a huge hit when Roy gutted the condition copy mechanic, meaning it can’t condi bomb effectively in teamfights anymore, and unyielding anguish can no longer be used to stop stomps/rezzes, so why even both when your torment ticks will do so little compared to the utter lack of utility? Pain absorption’s energy cost is a tad high.
Mallyx builds can still remove boons fairly well, but various necromancer/reaper and mesmer/chronomancer builds can still provide better boon removal over time (and in AoE too).
Edit: your build seems odd. I think a power build (more example of bad build diversity) could take corruption traits (although its a bit inferior of a choice) but the mallyx utilities don’t do much for it at all compared to shiro. Even jalis feels better, though it still has its flaws.
All I did was take the usual Shiro + Glint power and crit build and swap Glint out with Mallyx. Still traited for max Berserker DPS. Mallyx is taken purely for resistance buff from Pain Absorption – you don’t bother using the other utilities, so you should have plenty of energy left to spam Pain Absorption two or three times.
Lack of condition pressure is irrelevant – it’s still the same old Shiro + Glint burst damage build. Just with resistance instead of other buffs.
If you find a team mate with great condition removal support, you can quickly swap out Mallyx for Glint when you’re out of combat.
no stunbreak on mallyx and the condi pressure is also not that great. the heal is also inferior.
No need to use torment abilities just because they’re available to you. Just spam Pain Absorption – there’s no cool down on it.
You get Stun Breaks on Legend Swap, and Shiro has Stun Breaks on demand. Yes, you will be vulnerable to CC in the 10 seconds after you have just swapped to Mallyx – but I find that an acceptable price for going from virtually no condition removal to complete immunity to conditions.
What’s wrong with taking Mallyx instead of Glint? All the buffs that the Glint Facets give are available via One with Nature, and Resistance-on-demand alone seems to offer a lot more than perma-boons and the Facet actives.
Shiro + Mallyx, Sword and Shield + Staff, Invocation + Devastation + Herald.
That seems like the way to go.
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I used to swear by Celestial.
I have learned unfortunately, that certain stats are more valuable than other stats outside of PVP and WvW solo roaming.
Revenant has plenty of ways to evade and nullify damage. Full Berserker would be my recommendation, if I had to pick one set.
In PVE, Conjure Frost Bow should still be a permanent part of your utilities. It’s still too good to be replaced by anything else, so long as you stay in Water Attunement.
For Bunker, I’d actually go Air spec instead of Earth – which sounds crazy at first right?
In PVP I find that Weakness is a far more valuable commodity than Protection, and Air just so happens to have a Grandmaster trait that applies Weakness whenever the Elementalist applies any sort of CC – including the stun from Shocking Aura, the Daze from Comet, the Knockdown from Gale, etc. Complimenting this would be a full bar of five Shouts – each of which apply Might, Weakness, and condition removal (Tempestuous Aria + Soldier Runes).
Harmonious Conduit is not that great in my opinion – mostly because it’s only 1 stack of Stability. Getting an Overload interrupted is no big deal – it just means that you are less likely to get the rest of your skills interrupted. Plus your Earth Overload innately possesses 3 stacks of Stability.
Here is my Bunker + Support Tempest: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAodn0XCNYi9XCWYCcYilHAzdyWZ/sEDhXQLQIAcAahA-TJxHwACOBA62fAwDAoYZAA
Performed quite exceptionally in the few matches I played. Just don’t duel – a Tempest’s greatest strength is in sharing stuff with nearby allies.
A rework this late is unlikely, and I’m not particularly disappointed in Tempest like most people here, but the concept of accumulating Overloads and possibly having different effects depending on the combination of elements you’ve chosen to accumulate, is very interesting and cool. Reminds me of the Virtuoso in Dragon Age: Inquisition multiplayer.
I thought someone tested in BWE that you can’t recharge overcharged air attunement with fresh air, but I could be wrong or missing new updates.
EDIT: See this thread, not sure if its intended or a bug.
Ah that’s a shame – looks like Auras are still the way to go.
You have to be in another attunement to proc Fresh Air. So you’d have to cast your overload, swap to another attunement, then swap back. Wait 5 seconds, then cast the overload again. It’s finnicky and not that strong, since air’s overload is adjusted to take that into account. It’s a decent way to stack aoe vulnerability, but not the best.
Is this what you tested in BWE2? The only reason we currently have to be in another attunement to proc Fresh Air is because swapping attunement is the only way to trigger a cool-down on Air attunement.
Overload will trigger a cool-down without switching out of Air attunement. But I don’t know if this cool-down can be cleared by Fresh Air, nor do I know whether the 5 sec rule on Overloads can be bypassed if you never switched attunements.
Hello? If Fresh Air can instantly recharge an Overload cool down with one crit, this would be more overpowered than anything we have ever encountered?
Crit once to completely recharge your Overload Air, constantly spam back-to-back Overload Air, turning you into an …actual tempest?
Or does the 5 second rule still apply even if you recharge Air Attunement via Fresh Air?
Unless, I can do the flip into the air but finish off the descent with a quick shadow step/blink.
Yeah that’s really all there is to my point – we already have Shadowstep and blur animations, we don’t really need to recycle animations from other professions.
I’ve been thinking about how to make a P/P thief for a long time.
Considering this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZEQNAqaVl0M1MpsppptNdNx3p2J0PtPtwTYeRhsQVYuA2AnganpfQAA-TFCFABt9AAwe/BAOFAFq+zVKBRS5nAHBg00HAA-w
Trapper Runes give you 3 secs of stealth every time you lay down a trap (disable auto attack to prevent accidental reveals). You have two traps via utility slots, and one trap via “lay down a needle trap when you heal”.
This gives you 3 free sneak attacks every 30 or so seconds (heal trap trait has cooldown). Combined with all the Unloads you can perform while revealed, this should quickly bring down a single target. Note that Unload does about twice the amount of burst damage of sneak attack (which scales 50/50 between burst and bleeds), making Unload your main source of damage (so it’s more like the sneak attacks are filling in between Unloads). Thus I have gone full Berserker in spite of the condition stats in Trapper Runes. Thus I don’t recommend Black Powder + bounding dodger for DPS via more sneak attacks.
A power-condition build could also work pretty well if you use Headshot (with interrupt traits) instead of Unload to cover revealed. The Black Powder combo stealth is also more useful here for sustained sneak attacks. I don’t like this choice because it impacts Shortbow performance, and the Shortbow is an incredible solution to crowds of any kind.
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Replaces the Greatsword Charge. Animation more fitting IMO, and it shouldn’t be very hard to pull off.
You are just flat out wrong about D/P in sPvP tournaments. There are no high level Thieves running 0/10/30/30/0 in tournaments; the spec is exactly the same as D/D, 25/30/0/0/15 so there is no reduction in utility or damage. I’ll point you to two of the best Thieves in high level tournament play for reference, Jumper: http://www.twitch.tv/loljumper/videos?kind=past_broadcasts
Caed: http://www.twitch.tv/narcarsis/videos?kind=past_broadcasts. Watch any past broadcasts or live streams for reference.
You misunderstand, I completely agree with what you’re saying. My post emphasizes the severe disadvantages a 0/10/30/30/0 build would have in high level tournaments.
I believe 25/30/0/0/15 hasted Pistol Whippers and Backstabbers are most in-demand for high level tournaments – and a Thief’s skill correlates heavily with her ability to use Infiltrator’s Arrow
Hi, I am the author of Unseen and Deathess + Slayer Thief – and I am also a good friend of Soko D Medo. I’d like to clarify the strengths and weaknesses of Dagger/Pistol (0/10/30/30/0).
In the context of WvW, this allows you to constantly apply pressure to a disorganized zerg. As long as you are present, their Staff Eles, Rangers, Grenadiers and so on are all threatened. It doesn’t matter if you’re only able to engage 1 person at a time. You are like a living condition debuff on the entire zerg, constantly removing/disabling players one at a time. Removing you requires the attention of several players, which leaves the enemy zerg vulnerable to an allied push.
Unfortunately the most you can do to organized zergs like Red Guard is tail them (powerful in its own right, but that’s a topic for another time). When every one of your available targets is located inside a kill-zone, there is nothing your regeneration, blinds, and evasion can do to kill even one of them. Your role is to cull the weak and the lonely, and no one in Red Guard is weak or lonely. Even if you manage to catch someone away from the zerg, you have about 5 – 10 seconds to kill them before 2 more zerglings arrives.
In sPvP, the Dagger/Pistol is god mode for hot-joins and low level tournaments. Because almost everything’s a 1v1 duel. Even if 5 players hunt you, you can keep them busy as long as you play defensively.
However your utility in high level tournaments is dramatically reduced. You can duel a bunker Elementalist or Guardian for eons, but you will never be able to take the point from her (all damage is nerfed in sPvP, and every point will have a bunker on it). If you decide to ignore the bunkers, you must face the enemy 4-man group of AOE burst builds (maybe one bunker among them) – designed to wipe other 4-man groups let alone one Thief.
Dagger/Pistol only shines 100% of the time in WvW scouting, and WvW duels (although you’ll have some trouble against Phantasm Mesmers in the duels because Phantasmal duelists are almost another player unto themselves). I’ve had multiple people show me variants of Dagger/Pistol and I’ve experimented with many different modifications myself, but the only other effective implementation I’ve seen is essentially a camping perma-stealth Steal-Backstab Thief (by Noell of Jade Quarry).
Any questions?
The fact that it forces you to roll backwards feels awkard. If I wanted to go forward I would have to turn around 180 degrees and activate; which doesn’t make any sense.
This is much easier to do than you think.
Using full burst equipment and traits with P/D works surprisingly well as a matter of fact.
A non-crit Sneak Attack still does damage equal to a non-crit Backstab. The direct damage (modified by crit) of a Sneak Attack is equal to the direct damage of a Frontstab. Your Cloak and Dagger is still completely direct damage based.
You’ll still want to keep a main-hand Dagger when you need a pure burst of instant burst damage though.
This was something I had always wanted to do. It was fun while it lasted.
A couple of notes:
- We followed Sanctum of Rall in when they took Bay from Jade Quarry.
- Cloak and Dagger on structures is a broken mechanic. It’ll likely be fixed in the future. Thankfully, there’s still Black Powder + Heartseeker.
- I was unfamiliar with how the aggro worked, so I kept throwing down siege sites even after the guards were killed.
- We might have succeeded if two of us Unloaded with Dual Pistols while one of us applied cripples with Shortbow. Alas, we had no such load out.
- Voice-coms might sound disjointed because my voice isn’t recorded by Fraps.
- I censored some swearing near the end.
This was something I had always wanted to do. It was fun while it lasted.
A couple of notes:
- We followed Sanctum of Rall in when they took Bay from Jade Quarry.
- Cloak and Dagger on structures is a broken mechanic. It’ll likely be fixed in the future. Thankfully, there’s still Black Powder + Heartseeker.
- I was unfamiliar with how the aggro worked, so I kept throwing down siege sites even after the guards were killed.
- We might have succeeded if two of us Unloaded with Dual Pistols while one of us applied cripples with Shortbow. Alas, we had no such load out.
- Voice-coms might sound disjointed because my voice isn’t recorded by Fraps.
- I censored some swearing near the end.
The Shortbow applies conditions, but it can never out-damage P/P in ranged single target damage.
I agree that P/P has serious burst, but after its gone all you have left is dinky crappy vital kitten.
Short Bow can do so much more, and over a minute + fight, it outdamages it simply because of multiple blast finishers combined with the combo fields the thief has.
Then we are mostly in agreement.
Check out a video I’ll be posting soon on the forums; it illustrates a situation where we really could have used some P/P.
The Shortbow applies conditions, but it can never out-damage P/P in ranged single target damage.
No, there really isn’t.
P/P has poor damage, very little utility besides blind that many just move out of and high end bosses ignore, and a high cost daze.
In PvP, Thieves P/P is probably the worst weapon sets in the game, this is comparing to almost every other classes weapon sets.
To be fair, P/P excels at taking out extremely dangerous individuals – such as Keep lords, Siegerazers or rampaging Beserker Warriors.
It is a support single-target DPS weapon set however: it only excels when your group outnumbers the enemy, or if the enemy can’t reach you.
I could pretty much put any weapon besides P/P in that and say it does it better. Also what does P/P do to make the enemy not able to reach you?
I’m pretty sure it doesn’t matter what weapon you use if you outnumber the enemy.
The Thief’s other weapons require the Thief to be in melee range: which can often be suicidal regardless of the Thief’s skill or the no. of allies (see Siegerazer).
I do consider P/P to be the least practical weapon set, but one must at least recognize its strengths. It is bad practice to rashly dismiss the weapon as inferior.
No, there really isn’t.
P/P has poor damage, very little utility besides blind that many just move out of and high end bosses ignore, and a high cost daze.
In PvP, Thieves P/P is probably the worst weapon sets in the game, this is comparing to almost every other classes weapon sets.
To be fair, P/P excels at taking out extremely dangerous individuals – such as Keep lords, Siegerazers or rampaging Beserker Warriors.
It is a support single-target DPS weapon set however: it only excels when your group outnumbers the enemy, or if the enemy can’t reach you.