Guild Wars 2

Stealth is broken and revealed is applied when a Thief deals ‘direct’ damage during stealth.

Unfortunately with enemy tower/keep walls, it is impossible to do ‘direct’ damage. Yet these walls are still ‘hittable’ objects.

This allows Thieves to infinitely stack stealth by repeatedly hitting a wall with Cloak and Dagger. It counts as a hit so it applies stealth. However the hit does no ‘direct’ damage, so subsequent Cloak and Daggers do not break stealth even if the Thief is still in stealth.

To replicate this exploit:

• Use a full shadow arts Thief with initiative regeneration traits
• Walk up to a wall without targeting it
• Hit the wall with Cloak and Dagger again and again

Brutalistik.6473:

Adaneshade.2409:

Brutalistik.6473:

Adaneshade.2409:

I’ll tell you other thieves the same thing I tell to every other class that QQs about being bursted down….get some toughness, glass cannons have no meaningful place in PvP.

You think toughness is the answer? Any glass cannon can blow through toughness with ease no matter how high it is. If anything you won’t be 2shotted instead…you’ll be 3shotted. Don’t believe me Adaneshade.2409? try it out yourself and see if I’m lying here. I guarantee you’ll be disappointed being 3shotted by glass cannon even having over 3k armor.

Have over 3k armor, never get 3 shot by anything. not even close. Either you’re outright lying, or just trying to troll.

PS – As a side note, maybe you should actually read someones post before going all nerd rage on them. I was poking fun at a thief, of all classes, complaining about dying to burst.

That’s not trolling man…that’s pure facts and maybe you should try it out before thinking toughness is the solution to counter glass cannons. This isn’t World of Warcraft buddy if you think toughness works like that.

Adane is correct here. Toughness is the solution to glass-cannon burst builds.

You are also correct about 2 shotted vs. 3 shotted in the most extreme cases. However, you underestimate how much of a difference this makes in PvP. This is the difference between having 2 lives and 3 lives. That extra life buys you enough time to dodge, heal, retreat, retaliate, stealth, block, etc.

I may have to repeat myself.

Steepled and I quickly worked out a deal that we’re both quite happy with.

Those with pitchforks please drop them before someone gets hurt.

Arms dealing is not something to be shunned. It is a fair trade between an experienced Commander with a liberal siege policy, and a dealer who chooses to entrust the weapons he looted off the corpses of his enemies to better hands.

Ultimately, he is a valued contributor to the Toast war effort.

Steepled and I quickly worked out a deal that we’re both quite happy with.

You may all drop your pitchforks now.

Fellow Toasters, arms dealing is not something to be shunned. It is a fair trade between a siege hungry Commander and a dealer who chooses to entrust the weapons to better hands. It ultimately contributes to the Toast war effort.

Doomdesire.9365:

Iohanna.4863:

An affront to Thieves has been detected.

Sir, a little known fact even among Thieves is that the follow-up skill to Infiltrator’s Strike – Shadow Return – is an almost unlimited range teleport. This may look like a hack to those who don’t know about it.

Some Thieves have reported teleporting so far that they had to go through the WvW loading screen. Infiltrator’s Strike is no. 2 main-hand sword, so sword Thieves can do this pretty often.

Actually the range is 10000, it’s an extremely funny skill to use, and yes, it does give you loading screens when you go too far =D

Also, a weird glitch, sometimes if you place it behind an object that would normally block shadowstep, and you go far enough, you will go through it, I’m guessing because it hasn’t rendered any object while it’s loading. I don’t think it works with towers, but it’s interesting nonetheless.

So if we can load Trebuchets with Thieves and fire them, those Thieves can later Shadow Return back to the Trebuchet?

EDIT: Illustrating 10000 range.

IComeInPeace.1768:

Hey KOM,

I dont mind that you use speed hack

I dont mind that you use radar

I dont mind that you use ports near the fight after you down

What I do mind is:

1. When I’m owning your thiefs 1v1, you jump in and help or they speed off 1300 range away.

So – When ever any one of you want to 1v1, let me know and 1v1. You can use any hack you want becuase as you know – I’m still beating you.

Malf
(HNIC)

An affront to Thieves has been detected.

Sir, a little known fact even among Thieves is that the follow-up skill to Infiltrator’s Strike – Shadow Return – is an almost unlimited range teleport. This may look like a hack to those who don’t know about it.

Some Thieves have reported teleporting so far that they had to go through the WvW loading screen. Infiltrator’s Strike is no. 2 main-hand sword, so sword Thieves can do this pretty often.

Steepled, I’m going to contact you in-game. I’ll mail you if you’re offline.

#interestedTCcommander

A shout-out from the Toast: you should be afraid of [KH].

Columba.9730:

Iohanna.4863:

Columba.9730:

I thought we were scolded that perma stealth is impossible? I thought it was only possible with exploiting the culling bug.

True perma-stealth is entirely possible with Black Powder + 3 Heartseekers, although slightly difficult to pull off (try landing 3 Heartseekers in that smoke field without hitting anything – it’s not so easy).

With expert timing and target selection, back-to-back Cloak and Daggers never expose the Thief for more than a fraction of a second; which is for all intents and purposes "perma-stealth”.

The former method does not require a target but leaves a tell-tale smoke field. The latter method requires a clean hit; no misses, no blinds, no blocks.

Don’t expect perma-stealth to go away once culling issues are fixed; more experienced Thieves will be minimally affected.

thank you. what tradeoffs must they make for true perma stealth?

Minimum requirements: 15 in Shadow Arts, and 20 in Acrobatics.

Key major traits:

• +2 Initiative per stealth
• +2 initiative every 10 seconds (combine with Infiltrator’s Signet for +3)

Most thieves consider the 20 points in Acrobatics to be a burden. You cannot max Critical Strikes and have Mug.

I personally don’t value Mug very much. It makes my Steal break stealth, and I am a fan of Blink-stabs. I like the Critical Strikes tree, but I do not miss it. I rip through opponents easily enough with full Berserker gear. Additional burst damage is useless if you cannot sustain it.

So for me, there is very little trade-off. I am willing to take some DPS hits (11k to 6k Backstabs) to ensure that I can survive to Backstab again.

Columba.9730:

I thought we were scolded that perma stealth is impossible? I thought it was only possible with exploiting the culling bug.

True perma-stealth is entirely possible with Black Powder + 3 Heartseekers, although slightly difficult to pull off (try landing 3 Heartseekers in that smoke field without hitting anything – it’s not so easy).

With expert timing and target selection, back-to-back Cloak and Daggers never expose the Thief for more than a fraction of a second; which is for all intents and purposes "perma-stealth”.

The former method does not require a target but leaves a tell-tale smoke field. The latter method requires a clean hit; no misses, no blinds, no blocks.

Don’t expect perma-stealth to go away once culling issues are fixed; more experienced Thieves will be minimally affected.

Chafaso.6759:

Im triying a perma stealth with Dagger/pistol.

In your opinion, what gear is the best?
(For WvW, Runes, traits, etc)

Need some help on this..

Thx.

You’ll want to go either 0/20/30/20/0 or 0/10/30/30/0. I recommend the latter – the Acrobatics tree has better traits than the Critical Strikes tree.

Obviously you take +2 initiative per stealth, condition removal, and stealth healing in Shadow Arts.

With Acrobatics, the only mandatory major trait is plus 2 initiative per 10 seconds. This is the equivalent of a -37.5% cool-down on all your weapon skills. Some highly recommended major traits are Fleet Shadow (plus 50% speed in stealth) and Assassin’s Reward (healing from using initiative).

The Runes you use will depend on your equipment and how much of a DPSer you want to be. I personally use Runes of Rage with Full Berserker equipment to counterbalance my survival-heavy trait allocation, but I have been pretty satisfied with Runes of Mercy with Knight’s equipment for a tougher rez-oriented build (quite useful in buying time for camps, towers and keeps by rezzing the supervisor/lord). The Knight’s build might actually be more desirable for WvW; but I’m role-playing an agile acrobatic murderess, so I’d rather not spec for toughness.

Eduardo does not know what he is talking about.

I am confident that outside of sPvP, one Paralyzation Sigil is sufficient to boost Tactical Strike’s daze to 3 seconds.

Anyone who doubts this can easily test for themselves. Superior Sigil of Paralyzation is dirt cheap; in fact you can even test it with the Minor Sigil since it’ll round up to 3 seconds anyway. If the Daze ends at the same time as your Revealed, its duration is 3 seconds.

Heropon.5308:

Just wondering, is D/D S/D viable in dungeons and bossing? Been considering it but I’m not really a fan of PvP.

This loadout is excellent for the only dungeon that really matters: Path 1, Citadel of Flame – highest profit you’ll ever get from farming, even when DR hits.

Multi-shot or channeled attacks are intended to follow stealthed targets.

This is no bug; you have encountered one of the few weaknesses of stealth.

You have far too much in Deadly Arts; and you’re clearly not running a Venom-spec because you don’t have 30 points in Shadow Arts as well (for Venom-share and Venom-lifesteal). 30/0/30/0/0 (10 extra points left) is pretty much the only time you ever invest that much into Deadly Arts.

I personally believe that the Thief’s best traits are in Shadow Arts and Acrobatics. I run 0/10/30/30/0 with full Berserker equipment and Runes of Melandru (a little extra toughness goes a long way for glass cannons). With Assassin’s Reward, Shadow Rejuvenation and Signet of Malice all passively healing me in a fight (plus Condition Removal every time I stealth), I am a sustainable glass-cannon. I don’t really worry about my damage; I have full Berserker gear and I can maintain up to 10 stacks of Might from Hidden Assassin in a fight, and have an extra 10% damage when my endurance is not full. I have Feline Grace for extra Evasion and I have +3 initiative every 10 seconds so that I do not have to worry about running out of initiative.

However that is just my opinion. Other thieves believe the Grandmaster trait in Critical Strikes (Executioner) is mandatory, and try to build around that.

Instant Cast skills are not locked down by Control effects.

However if the skill is not a stun-breaker, the Thief does not shake off the Control effect.

Spectre.6452:

My longest teleports was so long I had to watch the wvw loading screen.

….seriously?

What about line-of-sight? Are there any limits to Shadow Return that you can think of? Because I’ve had Shadow Return fail me a few times.

Thunderbrew, this tactic requires a very specific rhythm to be pulled off (Cloak and Daggers need to be almost exactly 3 or 4 seconds apart)

If you can figure out the rhythm, you can dodge/block the Cloak and Dagger and make the Thief retreat (Cloak and Dagger eats a lot more initiative if it misses). You should also retreat to a safe spot (like within your zerg) so that if the Thief insists on pursuing you, you have 10+ allies there to save you.

Mighty Assasin.3816:

Maelwaedd.5842:

Commander from SoR on TC borderland contact me immediately in game

I was the mesmer, please learn to sweep.

Mighty Assasin.3816:

Report me, do it.

This kind of attitude is repugnant. Follow Mishi’s example please; be polite and maintain courteous conduct. This notice is not limited to Lite alone. Please give our readers a better impression of Tier 2.

Maelwaedd.5842:

Commander from SoR on TC borderland contact me immediately in game

Keep suspicions and accusations private and off the forum. You may use the party invite/join function to communicate with the opposing team in-game, if you have any concerns.

Frankly I don’t see how either of your builds are suitable for WvW and 1v1. The first is better described as a “surprise mofo” build: one that is dedicated to assassinating distracted targets. The other is actually not so bad if I’m guessing the traits you’re getting correctly; except I have long lost my faith in Venoms completely in my quest for the ultimate Thief.

I would recommend taking your second build, and transfer your 20 points in Deadly Arts to either Critical Strikes (for crit-bleeds) or Trickery (for Bountiful Theft and Initiative).

If you’re serious about 1v1 however, you should consider D/P. Berserker equipment, Shadow Arts + Acrobatics focus.

Any Thieves willing to fight for the Tarnished Coast can potentially be invited into an exclusive WvW Thief-only community that may or may not exist!

Also known as the Crows of Antiva [Crow]. Representation not required.

ensoriki.5789:

You forgot, Dodging, putting up stability, blocking, aegis, Invulnerability/evade skills like Quickshot or Blurred Frenzy, activating pet skills such as the Wolf Fear and blinding through skills such as Plague or Black Powder. As well as moving to delay the attack and to possibly stop the daze through normal movement or even Leaps and teleports.

Aside from dodging and Black Powder, these defensive measures aren’t cheap right (not spammable)?

If a Thief is forcing you to use expensive defenses with something as cheap as C&D + Tactical Strike, they are probably winning (probably, because different situations have different objectives).

Do remember that a Thief is never revealed until they deal damage. Aegis, dodging, blinding and so on will not force a Thief out of stealth, and they will be free to continue trying to land Tactical Strike or Backstab on you. The only exception to this rule is a Warrior or Ranger’s pseudo-invulnerability, which only mitigates damage down to 0 as opposed to outright blocking damage.

Tulisin.6945:

Dagins.5163:

When people see a thief going stealth for a few seconds, they usually spend this time using heal, because it’s the only thing they can do besides AoE. That means, C&D encourages them to heal, and tactical strike interrupts it. With shadow arts 15, C&D stealth lasts 4 seconds, and with acribatics 10 (fleet shadow) you will pretty much always land it.

So your point is that TS is better because people don’t know what they’re doing against thieves? When a thief stealths is a really terrible time to burn a heal.

I’ll amend my statement: Against a competent opponent, headshot fills the role far better because you’re proactively taking an action instead of hoping your opponent makes a mistake you can exploit.

Tulisin, Headshot is definitely more responsive than Tactical Strike. However like C&D and BP+HS, they fulfill slightly different roles.

Tactical Strike dazes your target for 3 seconds (with Sigil of Para.), the downside being that you must execute it from stealth in melee range. This will shut down almost any single target.

Headshot is better for single-instance-ASAP interruption; it’s much easier to stop a stomp or a heal with a Headshot. However, it is not something you can sustainably continue dishing out (Tactical Strike can pretty much perma-daze a target).

Dagin’s point is relevant, even against a competent player. There really is nothing to do except auto-attack, set traps, set fields and heal up when an enemy Thief stealths. Trying to catch the Thief with non-spammable AOEs is very unwise. This is part of why Tactical Strike is so powerful.

If you have Signet Use and Hastened Replenishment, you can get 6 initiative from activating Signet of Malice (12 second cool-down).

Laika.8795:

C&D is as reliable as you make it. BP + HS is extremely initiative exhausting (9 init, 3/4 our bar!), and not worth it in the least bit.

It’s actually 7 initiative with the +2 initiative on stealth trait. With enough initiative regeneration, it is possible to sustain stealth under BP + HS just as often as C&D.

BP + HS also has the added bonus of perma-stealth. You can stack stealth indefinitely in combat at virtually any time, without running out of initiative because of your initiative regeneration.

I’m not saying BP+HS is completely superior to C&D. You need both for different situations. C&D excels in DPS and efficiency, whilst BP+HS is more survival oriented (readily available, immune to blinds and blocks, indefinite stealth, blinds).

I apologize for being rather insistent, but I have had too many Thief buddies fail to survive an engagement where a D/P Thief could have easily survived/won. I really want more people to run D/P – especially Stiv who shares a server with me.

ZLE.8293:

Iohanna.4863:

C&D is not as reliable as Black Powder + Heartseeker.

OK but C&D is like 4 ini(presuming you don’t miss) compared to 7 for BP+HS.Aren’t you having recourse problems?

Contrary to popular belief, 7 initiative is not as initiative costly as most people would believe when you are regenerating 3 initiative per 10 seconds.

Stiv, it’s Amy.

0/20/30/20/0 works far better with S/D + D/P (although this compels you to get a pistol, if money is an issue). D/D is kind of redundant together with S/D, as they both rely on C&D for stealth. C&D is not as reliable as Black Powder + Heartseeker.

Swap out “Blind upon stealth” for “gain 2 initiative upon stealth”. Also don’t be afraid to use Signets and Dagger Storm (this is entirely up to your taste however).

You’ll find that D/P will greatly enhance your mobility and access to stealth (your Heartseekers are now stealths!). It’s also better for chasing if you have “50% move speed in stealth”:

Black Powder —> Heartseeker --> Infiltrator’s Signet / Steal / Shadowstep —> Infiltrator’s Strike or Tactical Strike

This will catch up with even D/D Elementalists. Although, Ride the Lightning is on a 15 second cool-down so good luck sticking to them.

PS: I run D/D + S/D in Dungeons. NPCs are too stupid to avoid C&D, so I can afford to do this.

PPS: D/P is the king of 1v1 :<

frans.8092:

If that is true … I need to get a cheap sword to test this. Does it stack with the mesmer runes? And if you’re correct on the rounding, a minor sigil would have the same effect?
Edit: Seems to work as you claim.

It will stack with Mesmer Runes, but I imagine the only time you’d need to do that is in sPvP, to cross the >2.0 second threshold.

It is redundant to do so in PvE, you’ll only reach 2.96 seconds. Sorry, no 4 second dazes.

Evilek.5690:

Rinzler.8072:

In WvW, I find S/D pretty decent. Ive run it 90% of the time for hte last 2 months.

Spec 10/30/30/0/0
Bersker armor + divinities (rubys worked too)
Sigil of paralyzation (3 second daze)
Sigil of Rage (haste) + traited for haste on crit.
Alt weaponset with 2 x sigil of perception, builds stacks very quick

Tactikal strike has 1.5s daze and Sigil of paralyzation increase STUN duration no DAZE.

He is talking about WvW, which is under PvE rules. So it’s a 2 second daze.

Boosts to stun duration apparently also apply to Daze duration.

Equipping a Superior Sigil of Paralyzation makes Tactical Strike a 3 second daze (should be 2.3 seconds, but it apparently rounds up – you can check this yourself, the sigils are dirt cheap).

It is unwise to completely trust tool-tips.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Video-Black-Powder-Heartseeker/first#post713948

A sloppy and old demonstration, but it should help.

Forgive my lack of modesty, but I do consider myself the foremost expert on D/P Thief. If you have more questions, do ask.

For reference, this is the build I currently run for almost all PvP situations:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoa8YlYmaPncS+E+5ExWhey9wpGtpdPwqV1KA;TwAg0CnoUyokQJrSOlkKtgYAx2i5HA

evilapprentice.6379:

Tulisin.6945:

S/P and S/D aren’t bad, you just have to ignore their dual skills most of the time (at least in PvP).

A lot of bad S/P builds come from people trying to shoehorn pistol whip into PvP effectiveness by stacking all kinds of quickness and immobilize. You can make it work, but at that point you might as well just use a backstab build. What people fail to realize is that #1,2,4,5 are all solid skills and S/P can run quite well without using PW at all.

S/P is serviceable, I admit – it’s just boring. Autoattack is your primary DPS source, and like you’ve said, your only using PW on rare occasions (or when you try to shoehorn it in with gimmicks)

S/D is as bad as I’ve described it. You’re playing a spec that plays exactly like D/D (Superior position required, stealth required, constantly in melee, gap closers cant be used in stealth) without any of the burst. You’ve traded backstab and heartseeker for tactical strike and infiltrators strike – very, very poor tradeoff.

Not quite right. You’re playing a modified D/D.

You lose:

• Single-target back-stab
• Heartseeker (execution skill)

You gain:

• 2 second single-target daze
• Cleaving auto-attack (hit up to 3 enemies)
• Infiltrator’s Strike (unlimited stun-breakers)

Perhaps the situation is different in sPvP, where one cannot simply rely on equipment for burst damage. In WvW, S/D is vastly more powerful than D/D in a zerg; you’re unleashing your ridiculous burst DPS on 3 targets with simple auto-attacks, and your sneak attack is a 2 second Daze. It is perfect for denying revivals, or even downing the reviver if he underestimates your damage.

In WvW at least, it is a magnificent trade off.

What most Thieves fail to realize is that D/P + S/D are by far the most effective weapon sets in sustained PvP (D/D is superior if one intends to end the engagement in under 10 seconds – which is somewhat risky).

Unparalleled access to stealth allows D/P to make you virtually unkillable; even with Berserker equipment. Granted, this requires massive sacrifices in the DPS department (you need a maxed out Stealth tree and at least 20 points in Acrobatics for +2 initiative per 10 seconds, leaving you 20 points for everything else). However, you should still be ripping through most people with ease in full Berserker equipment.

S/D has the second highest auto-attack DPS (second only to Daggers by a very small margin) – and it cleaves. Tactical Strike is very good at interrupting heals and shutting down troublesome targets. More importantly however, the cleave on the auto-attack allows you to Daze a rezzer and hit both the rezzer and his downed ally. One downed player easily turns into two.

The two weapon sets may have useless no. 3 abilities, but they become irrelevant when considering the utilities of their other abilities.

@Nefar

If you have attempted role-play before, you’ll notice that it’s almost just as difficult as improvised acting. Creative differences and syncing are significant hurdles that require patience, cooperation, sincerity and dedication to overcome.

Of course, populations often follow normal distributions so depraved individuals are not rare. However I can assure you that the Toast’s designation as the unofficial role-play server has had a positive effect on the average Toaster’s behavior and attitude.

Calling all Thieves! Join the Tarnished Coast for access to a super-secret Thieves only community that may or may not exist!

Doctor Manchu, I can’t watch your in China right now but I’ll say this about the P/P weapon-set.

P/P was designed for dungeon boss-fights, and that is why it is unpopular in WvW. The weapon set excels at supporting a dungeon raid party against a single powerful foe.

• Auto-attacks deal condition damage, which are useful against bosses with high toughness. Sneak attack is basically auto-attack spam.

• Unlike the auto-attack, Body Shot is a cheap guaranteed projectile finisher (useful for capitalizing on delicious combo fields) and vulnerability debuff applier. This significantly amplifies a party’s DPS against a difficult boss.

• Unload provides burst DPS when condition damage is unfavorable.

• Headshots strip defiance, and are guaranteed projectile finishers (not cheap like Body Shot however).

• Black Powder protects the Thief against melee mobs, and is a Smoke Field.

It is unwise to use P/P in WvW, except perhaps as an element of surprise (because no one expects you to pull out dual pistols). Its abilities are far too optimized for PvE boss fights.

For the convenience of readers:

2:00AM to 10:00AM Pacific
3:00AM to 11:00AM Mountain
4:00AM to 12:00PM Central
5:00AM to 1:00PM Eastern

I believe it is possible to use the /kick command to drop players from a party.

As a Dagger/Pistol Thief, I am very familiar with this trait both in and out of combat (I am constantly using stealth to cross distances in WvW).

Out-of-combat, it is the equivalent of Swiftness. This is something I have precisely measured with jump puzzles and an assistant Thief.

In-combat is where the 50% boost really kicks in. Landing back stabs has never been easier, and few things short of a D/D Elementalist or another Thief can flee from me.

@bomber

Sure, but the builds I have are primarily geared towards WvW. I’m sure adjusting for sPvP wouldn’t be too troublesome though.

Up until yesterday, I have spent over a month with this build:

• http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoa84kcmUOhfOhspoCFKuHOlR1UdKwKrC;TwAg0CnoqxUjoGbNuak1sgYYx2iJEA

There is space for two utilities of your choice. I typically use Blinding Powder and Roll For Initiative, but wise players switch up their utilities depending on the situation.

I use Sword/Dagger as my alternate weapon set, though this sometimes switches to Shortbow for specific WvW situations. Sword/Dagger is in many ways the most powerful weapon set, provided that you don’t miss your Cloak & Daggers. Infiltrator’s Strike and Tactical Strike (stealth attack) are excellent for control. The Sword auto-attack is an extremely powerful 3-target attack. Cloak & Dagger makes up for the lack of a powerful Backstab.

Now what changed yesterday was that I no longer value the Opportunist (20% chance restore initiative on crit) as much as I had, and that I have fallen in love with Withdraw.

So this is my current build, and I believe I’m enjoying far greater performance with it. :

• http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoa84kYmUOhfORw9wpGtpaFoZ3DsaVtC;TwAg0CnoqxUjoGbNuak1sgYYx2iJEA

This build sacrifices the Critical Strikes tree for Mug (in Deadly Arts), Fluid Strikes (in Acrobatics) and Assassin’s Reward (also in Acrobatics). This gives me more power/direct damage, and a lot more healing (I use and regenerate a ton of initiative).

Using Withdraw gives me much more mobility on the battlefield. Combined with Dagger/Pistol antics, Roll for Initiative and Blinding Powder, I can easily trick entire zergs into the wrong direction, as well as easily escape AOE spams. While I no longer have god-mode healing from Signet of Malice during a good Dagger Storm, I am much more capable of surviving a bad Dagger Storm now.

Big numbers are much rarer without Critical Strikes, but my DPS has otherwise been minimally affected. The best part about relying on power instead of precision, is that siege dies much faster now. My perma-stealth abilities make me the ideal candidate for closing in and removing protected siege, and there’s really nothing the enemy can do about it. I can spam Cloak and Dagger to grind away at Trebuchets, use Sword auto-attack to harass the operator as well, and use Black Powder + Heartseeker to stealth without hitting anything.

If there are more questions, I’d be happy to answer. I do wish more people could play Dagger/Pistol.

Niim it’s Amy Striss.

There are very few Dagger/Pistol Thieves around, it’s definitely not flavor of the month.

While I consider Dagger/Pistol to be by far the best weapon set for Thieves, it does require high investment in Shadow Arts and Acrobatics, which hurts your damage and necessitates full Berserker equipment. Even then, you’ll never be as deadly as a standard Steal + CnD Backstab Thief (although you’ll still be pretty deadly). It’s a burst build that requires patience: a bit counter-intuitive.

The main selling point of Dagger/Pistol is unparalleled access to stealth and blinds. This allows you to be one of the hardest players to kill on the battlefield; even with full Berserkers. The ability to stealth at virtually any time you want is priceless.

The greatest challenges for Dagger/Pistol are initiative management and positioning. Running out of initiative will kill you, and accidentally hitting someone when you’re trying to stack stealth will kill you. There are more limitations which I cannot remember off the top of my head right now.

The only reason it seemed overpowered in our duel is because I have had a lot of experience with Dagger/Pistol, and because it was a 1v1 duel (Dagger/Pistol is completely superior in 1v1). I am extremely familiar with Dagger/Pistol initiative management and positioning. I don’t think you’ll easily meet another Thief who uses it as well as I do.

DemonCow.5328:

Well, this week makes 6 Tier 3 wins, in a row, for Tarnished Coast, and 3rd place 5 out of the last 6 weeks for Isle of Janthir (They managed to stay out of third by ~2600 points a couple weeks ago).

Also, TC winning this match by about 70,000 points at the moment, and projected to still lose ranking points. IoJ is 23,000 behind 2nd place, and nearly 50,000 behind first, and they’re projected to gain points.

This has to change.

As a statistician, I guarantee you that Isle of Janthir would wreck Tier 3 if they dropped down and TC moved up (conversely, TC will be wrecked in Tier 2).

The Glicko measures performance; the fact that we have several tiers in perpetual match-ups is evidence of its accuracy.

Full write-up too big for our forums, please read here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/14u07l/death_of_a_dolyak_love_and_tragedy_in_wvw/

You should ask: “how do I play a Thief in dungeons” in the Thief forums

If we keep this up, the Toast must seriously consider the possibility of entering Tier 2 after next week’s match up.

Either we attempt to artificially keep our score lower than Isle of Janthir to stay in Tier 3, or we start mass recruiting across PvE to provide additional coverage.

Shadow Refuge alone puts you near the stealth duration stack cap; you didn’t need to use Blinding Powder and Hide in Shadows too.

Won’t happen. Utilities, Heal and Elite are how it is for every class. Until that changes, not likely to happen.

TOASTGUARD REPRESENT!

It’s already happening: EB JP

Dagger/Pistol = Hard Counter

ShadowX.4639:

Score update – 3:10pm EST

That was a heck of a 3 way battle for FA’s keep in EB! Lot of fun guys.

I don’t comment on these treads often but I must ask…….what the hell happened to Fort Aspenwood?! How did the expected 2nd place server get eliminated from the map?