Guild Wars 2

You can receive tomes of knowledge through reward tracks, which you can then use to level your character and gain access to those items.

Progression must be enabled for the custom arenas, but solo arena and team arena should always reward progress. Team arena rewards the most progress, followed by solo arena, and then by custom arenas. You receive more progress for a win than a loss.

I can’t answer all your concerns, but I’ll try.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Rank up chests.

Sorry, this was a technical limitation.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Missing outfits.

Have you visited the Black Lion armorer? I believe that is how some things are being converted. Also, you may need to log into other characters if the items were equipped.

JinDaVikk.7291:

level 11~ pve required now to pvp ( no shouldpads exist below level 11~)

You can play from level 1, you only need chest, legs, and boots as they are the only gear that count toward armor rating.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Horrid dragon finisher.

We can’t please everyone.

JinDaVikk.7291:

10 characters means I cannot outfit them all, yet I was pvp’ing for nearly 2 years.

We’ve made sure transmutation charges are awarded early and often as part of reward tracks. While you’re right you can’t outfit them all right away, you should be able to in very short order.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Map chat broken for me all day.

May be related to the surge in concurrency.

JinDaVikk.7291:

BOUGHT A GM TRAIT STILL CANT USE IT —- will be seeking refund.

Please do submit a support ticket. Can you also file a bug report from within the game?

Chest, leg, and boot are used. You’re fine without a helmet, shoulders, or gloves.

Confirm progression has been disabled.

Thanks for bringing this up, we definitely consider this an issue. To help combat this we’re going to require auto-balance in custom arenas for progression to be enabled.

This is a server configuration change, so can be done immediately. However, custom arena owners will not see the progression disabled warning until we can get a build through to include that information in the client.

No, the current matchmaking does not account for the size of the group when it is submitted.

It’s something the new system will very likely use though, but I don’t know (yet) how much weight it will hold compared to all the other new knobs.

I so wish I could take credit for this, but this is all Samuel Loretan. He. Is. Awesome.

Nike.2631:

I want a game that’s interesting to play every time I play it, not one I have to play 600 times to get Shiny X.

You aren’t alone in that. Just because we’re trying to appeal to one type of player does not mean we will ignore the others.

Master of Timespace.2548:

But does this change make the game easier to balance in any meaningful sense? How many balance problems have there been due to the jewels?

It isn’t just about jewels, it’s about stats in general. I can totally see why our designers would want the most influential thing (stats) to be locked down.

Brando.1374:

so will pvp be endgame or more tailored to newer players?

When I say new players, I mean players new to PvP, not necessarily new to the game. In this sense PvP can be a new endgame for some players.

Brando.1374:

I guess my question is, will this update just bring new players into pvp or will it also keep them interested a month later?

I believe it will do both. Reducing perceptual complexity will help us attract additional players, and rewards will give them reason to stay.

I think the big reason we need to streamline things and make it easy to pickup is NOT because newbies are dumb or incapable of figuring it out, but rather because PvP is very, very intimidating. Reduction in apparent complexity helps PvP be more approachable and less intimidating.

Also, I can’t undersell the benefits of reducing conceptual complexity for assisting designers achieve balance. We are finite creatures, us humans, and can only hold so many things in our mind at one time. We can create tools to help work around this, but anything that helps make balance easier gets my vote.

clint.5681:

How does streamlining it for new players when you can step into Pve/wvw and have tons of different options that dwarfs amulet + jewels.

The cost of mistakes are so much lower in PvE. Most PvP players are way more skilled than our AI, so you can get away with bad builds for much longer.

JinDaVikk.7291:

snip.

I hear you. I think the things we’re doing to broaden the base will help with queue times. Won’t get into the specifics of balance though, not here anyways.

Thedenofsin.7340:

A Whack-a-Mole game, but instead called ‘Whack-an-OP’ class.

You had me until you said razors.

Khenzy.9348:

A flexible, intuitive, non intrusive, fast Dueling system (OUTSIDE arenas and even the lobby).

Definitely! I’d also like to see just some huge pit where it’s FFA.

BeardRex.6739:

Jumping Puzzles, Dueling, Moa Races(gambling in general), Zephyr Style Races.

I keep pushing for some gambling. I’d be up a lot of gold if we were betting during those bonus weekend matches. Never bet against the mesmer.

I can’t speak for the designers, but I see this change (and the runes change) as one with the goal of streamline builds. Removing unneeded complexity benefits the game by making it easier for new players to pickup, while also making it easier balance the game as a whole.

Sure more options mean more possible builds, and more ability to tailor to your exact play style, but it doesn’t necessarily mean better builds or a better game.

I know at first, when doing the mental math, it felt like a bit of a contradiction to add more complexity in one area (traits) while removing it from another (amulets). Again, not presuming to speak for the designers, but I think it makes sense when you consider the impact each area has. Amulets are raw stats so they have a much bigger impact on balance because they affect everything. Why wouldn’t they want to lock down the most highly variable aspect of balance? Having greater impact means the cost of complexity grows exponentially.

At the same time, I could see the change also giving the designers more flexibility to do even more with amulets because math. 10 amulets with 10 jewels is 100 possible combinations, right? Now they only have to worry about just 12 amulets… which means they have 88 more amulets to go before they reach the same level complexity.

I know some people will think the difference between ‘streamlining’ and ‘dumbing down’ is only semantic, but I think intent is very important when trying to project where the game is heading in the future. This is part of the reason I’m very optimistic about where we’re going, and I think you should be too.

What are your arguments for the fine-tuning approach that jewels give? What exactly did it open up? What is now going to disappear? I’m genuinely interested in both sides of this one.

I’d definitely like to see more things to do in the lobby, and I love jumping puzzles.

What other sorts of things would you guys like to see?

AlbertoUlkesh.4517:

The next few feature blog posts are titled “Facilitating Friendly Play.”

I really, really hope one of these will address this issue.

They will not. There just wasn’t enough time to get the back-end changes done.

clint.5681:

Why couldn’t you tell us that earlier?

What I mean by that is why wait more than a week after the patch hit to tell us. I can understand not saying anything before the 18th now so you can avoid a influx of last minute pves

We had to wait for wardrobe to be announced so we didn’t spoil the surprise for the people that didn’t already figure it out. I meant to mention two days ago, but was so busy I forgot to necro the thread. Sorry.

We removed glory and match reward chests early to prevent a flood of PvE players from coming into PvP just to fill their wardrobe. While the our team would LOVE everyone playing PvP, some super smart economist peopleguys said it would have negative repercussions on the in-game economy or something.

It’s really unfortunate that we had to do this, but we explored other ways of handling it and nothing was really feasible except holding wardrobe back until the next feature pack (which also meant holding back lots of other PvP changes) or removing some of the PvP rewards for a month.

Edit: Tune in this Friday for news about the next phase of the new reward system.

skcamow.3527:

Justin, out of curiosity what build do you run in PvP?

I usually run a lockdown build, but like to experiment.

JoopFOX.9510:

It’s because you’re a mesmer that you’re “only” in the 80s, don’t you agree? XD

I think the biggest thing holding me back is keeping track of my illusions and knowing when to shatter. I have really hard time effectively using the diversion and distortion shatters.

I’m a better engineer than mesmer, but I keep coming back to mesmer because it’s more fun to play.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Justin ODell.9517:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Justin ODell.9517:

Solo Arena:

• Roy, 272,
• Evan, 428,
• Grouch, 876

Team Arena:

• Grouch, 67
• Roy, 309,
• Allie, 353 (wut?)
• Tyler B, 92%
• Evan, 91%

OK

Can you cull out the ones that are not playing Warrior, decap engie or Thief as their main?

Done. Hugh plays a Hambow, but he played it before it was cool. I’m pretty sure he’s been using that same warrior (Nightmare) since launch.

OK, which one plays a Mesmer? Which one plays an Ele?

I main Mesmer, and I think Evan has a Mesmer alt. Branden plays Ele, and Allie use to play Ele before she went over to the dark side and started playing Necro. I don’t know what Roy and Tyler B run.

Likely an oversight. I’ll let the team know.

Just wanted a throw out a shout to Allie. She was just now laying the smack down regarding warriors being an issue.

#allieisourchampion

Lord Kuru.3685:

legit criticism posts are routinely removed at the whim of the mods.

Legit criticism can still be done in ways that break our code of conduct. Making a good point doesn’t exempt you from the rules.

Edit:

I should add, if the mods seem to be doing things on a “whim”, i.e. ignoring some posts and removing others, it’s because they are usually responding to reported posts. They don’t have the time to read every thread in every sub-forum.

EverythingEnds.4261:

So ANet guys often say that the forums don’t represent the whole playerbase.

EverythingEnds.4261:

However, I realy want some of the ANet guys to explain cleary how they get / weight the player feedback.

Maybe this hasn’t been adequately explained before, but we do NOT disregard players and opinions on the forum, we just have to place forum feedback in the proper context.

Forum posts are far more likely to gravitate toward the extremes of love and hate because those players have the most incentive to speak out.

High skilled players are also over-represented on the forum, but represent a smaller part of the overall player base.

So, yes, we often have to base our decisions on what benefits more players, but truth isn’t determined by numbers. If you guys bring up a valid issue we aren’t going to just ignore it because only 1 person said it.

EverythingEnds.4261:

I rly would like to know, how ANet gathers the opinions of the players who don’t come to the forums.

Lots and lots and lots of metrics. We have a whole team dedicated to crunching numbers and deriving meaning from data.

We also have alphas that do lots of testing and we listen to their feedback. Maybe Josh can elaborate more on what they do.

The community team is also constantly taking the pulse of how our players feel. Allie is frequently bring up issues and representing the community in discussions that arise.

EverythingEnds.4261:

So why the hell can’t you make it more like Q&A style instead of “the 1h ANET show”.

Maybe you should start a thread about this? This might be something Josh and Allie can do for a future episode.

EverythingEnds.4261:

All I want is, is sb with a red tag say “This is how we weight / handle Community feedback: …” and even more important, I want to know, how you handle the “not existing” feedback of all those players who don’t go to the forums, as obviously, their opinion seems very important to ANet.

I’ve tried to answer this to the best of my understanding. I’m sure there is even more that I’m not aware of.

You guys are making some really good points, thanks.

Do you guys think this should be a higher priority than other changes? Why?

evildeadjunky.1576:

Maybe cause its stupid that you have to load like 3 screens to do it?

You can directly join a custom arena from anywhere. You do not need to be in the Heart of the Mists anymore.

Thedenofsin.7340:

• 40 new Grandmaster Traits, unlockable from PVE only

The new traits can be unlock from playing PvP only because gold.

Thedenofsin.7340:

While the new things are met with some trepidation, the reveals so far have brought about more vitriol and disdain than cheers and appreciation. Why is this? Primarily because the game the players want is not the game the developers are giving them.

Do not forget the nature of forums; that those that take issue with something are more likely to come forward. I think that this is one of the big disconnects that can mislead people (including us,) and cause us to misunderstand what the community actually wants/feels. Also keep in mind that no one can presume to represent everyone’s opinions.

Thedenofsin.7340:

So what does this mean for PvP? Well, it means that the game can never be truly balanced.

This would be an interesting topic. Perfect balance is impossible, for any game… so what exactly is required for balance to be considered good? I know many people have many opinions on what needs changed, but what are the core requirements? (Forgive me if this seems obvious, I’m not a designer and haven’t given it much thought before.)

Thedenofsin.7340:

If ArenaNet were to listen, perhaps they would make an all-stop and perform emergency triage to correct the problems with the game.

Feel free to help us improve the game by continuing to posting quality feedback on specific issues.

Thedenofsin.7340:

History tells me we will see a crackdown on disgruntled players in the forums and the PvP will continue to degrade.

We are actually very open and accepting of players that wish to express their opinions, even negative ones, we just have a hard line when it comes to our forum code of conduct. Stick to that and I can guarantee your posts will not be removed.

Simplest answer I can give is that it just isn’t as high a priority as other things we have been working on.

Why do you feel custom arenas do not work for those that want to duel?

Thedenofsin.7340:

Justin ODell.9517:

Solo Arena:

• Roy, 272,
• Evan, 428,
• Grouch, 876

Team Arena:

• Grouch, 67
• Roy, 309,
• Allie, 353 (wut?)
• Tyler B, 92%
• Evan, 91%

OK

Can you cull out the ones that are not playing Warrior, decap engie or Thief as their main?

Done. Hugh plays a Hambow, but he played it before it was cool. I’m pretty sure he’s been using that same warrior (Nightmare) since launch.

As an altoholic, I feel your pain. I’ll need to take a look at the data tomorrow, find out just how common re-rolling is for PvPers.

Solo Arena:

• Hugh, 178
• Roy, 272,
• Evan, 428,
• Grouch, 876

Team Arena:

• Grouch, 67
• Roy, 309,
• Allie, 353 (wut?)
• Tyler B, 92%
• Hugh, 91%,
• Evan, 91%

I have seen Tyler and Hugh much higher (<500), they must be slacking. I’ve also seen Evan get into the top 1000 before as well.

Me, I suck… only in the 80%s, so :P

We still have more announcements coming, so stay tuned.

Believe in Evan. He’s the one’s that might be able to make this happen.

glaphen.5230:

???You won a 4 vs 5 from the start? Was this hot join and not a queue or another failure in matchmaking putting a bunch of level 1-38s in a game of 40+s?

YoloQ. The teams were pretty even rank-wise. We were all 20-30s, they 20-30s with one in the 40s. We just had better point control. They got their act together near the end of the game, but by then it was just too late.

I had a match that started 4v5 today, we won but it’s still annoying.

We’re working on a solution that is both fair and, hopefully, doesn’t waste people’s time. Not ready to talk about the details yet, but I will say we have definitely incorporated a lot of the community’s feedback. Unfortunately, it won’t be in this feature build because it’s part of a major refactoring of our back-end systems.

DEDEN.2870:

There is no such thing as “horizontal progression” in any competitive environment. The very notion of such a concept is fundamentally naive.

Any complex system with so many interlocking mechanics will always have “better” or “best” options. Either they’re more powerful in terms of raw numbers, they’re more useful in a wider array of situations, they’re more tolerant of sloppy mechanical play, or some combination of all three.

snip…

I disagree because your argument seems to be that, essentially, that since perfection is impossible we shouldn’t even try.

The distinction between horizontal and vertical here is critical and I believe some people misunderstand it. When we say the progression is horizontal what we are really saying is that we will give our best attempt to balance things so they are approximately equal.

Yes we have and will make mistakes, but we will also try to correct those mistakes. I know people don’t like the current rate of balance changes, and we hear you, but that is another issue entirely.

Yes, high level players will find the best combinations. They already do, and have this advantage over new players. It’s one of the skills they’ve learned that makes them so effective.

DEDEN.2870:

I wouldn’t be surprised if this increased “barrier to entry” drove away many of the casual players completely. Even if it doesn’t, I expect a lot of them to become fairly bitter about being beaten by “op vet builds” or the like.

I don’t know what the outcome will be, but my intuition is that this will help. That said, we’re not so married to this idea that we wouldn’t change it if it wasn’t working. That is one of the things I love most about this company, we’re willing to shake things up to continually try to improve.

Rezz.8019:

Justin can you please explain what exactly is the point of having those unlockable traits?

Why is it so important to have that? Why do you think it is so necessary for the game?

I’m sure the designers have lots of reasons why they took this approach over others. They have to factor in other game modes, impact on the economy, new player experience, and more.

Personally, I like setting goals and working toward them. The rush of excitement when I finally reach a goal is one of the things that drives me, not just in game but in real-life as well.

So this sort of progression really gels with me. This one system (traits) by itself probably wouldn’t be enough to satiate players like myself, but when taken as part of the broader whole, its just what I’d like to see.

I understand not everyone feels this way, and I truly hope that it isn’t so much an inconvenience to those players. That said, I’m really glad they put something in for people like me.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Can you explain the reason for these unlocks to be character bound rather than account bound for PVP? In PVE I can understand but PVP I just can’t think of why you’d do it that way.

I don’t know the reasoning behind it. Personally, I would prefer account-bound unlocks, but I know there is a segment of the community that prefer character unlocks… strange as that may seem.

We do listen, so do share your thoughts (perhaps in another thread) on why you believe account-bound unlocks would be better for the game and better for players.

clint.5681:

Do you guys honestly not think of stuff like that on your own or do you just agree to please people?

Honestly? No, I don’t think of stuff like that. I’m not a designer, and I’m not on the team that is doing this work. My work day consists of figuring out how to get all the 1s and 0s in the right places at the right time.

I can’t speak for other people, but I would not be surprised if they already have thought of this. We have a very talented bunch of people here, and they’re constantly debating ideas. It’s hard for me to keep up with it all.

runeblade.7514:

ANet already catered to the people who wants progression in PvP, and it has been there since launch. It is called WvW. I don’t like the progression in WvW, so I rather go into sPvP instead.

A few things:
1) WvW has both vertical and horizontal progression. sPvP will never have much of what you see in WvW. That isn’t our target because it just doesn’t work for sPvP.
2) WvW isn’t there to cater to those that want a sense progression and attainment, (the whole game serves that purpose,) it’s there for those players that love grand-scale combat with large groups.
3) I hope the changes we’re introducing don’t make sPvP unenjoyable for you, but please keep in mind we have to consider a wide range of preferences and play styles.

Pyriall.5027:

Justin…why are there no unlocks through pvp content. Why is it always a one way street in favor of pve?

I’m all for that idea! Traits or what-have-you being only unlockable through PvP (or through coins) sounds like a great idea. Will have to mention it to the Skills and Combat team.

Lord Kuru.3685:

…but it doesn’t matter whether you call it horizontal or vertical progression. If new players start out kitten relative to veteran players, then you are violating your former philosophy of level playing field for all.

I agree with you, but will say that it is our stated intent that this be horizontal only, which means everything new must be balanced against the existing. It is something we will need to be vigilant about.

Jamais vu.5284:

Fallacy. That is because GW2 frankly isn’t even close to being a (s)PvP centered game, there’s very little to do and it’s very barebones, and due to that there’s only a tiny hardcore PvP scene left that plays only or mostly PvP.

This is the exact demographic you’re scaring away with changes like this.

This is not a fallacy, but I get what you are trying to say. That we only have so few competitive players because we aren’t catering to them, which in turn causes us to focus on them even less, and so on and so forth. The data just doesn’t fit your argument though. Players that play all game-modes have always vastly outnumbered PvP-only players. The trend between the two groups is nearly identical.

We can certainly do more to attract competitive players, and we plan too. We also don’t try to exclude our PvP-only players. I understand it may seem that way right now because we are trying to broaden the base with these changes.

Geniekid.2645:

unlocking a trait in PvE should also unlock it in PvP, right?

Correct. Unlocking a trait in PvE will also unlock it in PvP, and vice versa.

evilapprentice.6379:

The problem here is that Anet is saying “Trust us, this will be awesome”, and Anet has set a very poor precedent for trust. Nearly every time they’ve asked for the playerbases trust, they’ve betrayed it.

I’m truly sick of Anet telling me as a player “Trust us, this is what you want”, when the vast majority of players have made it clear that No, this is NOT what we want. In fact, more often than not its the EXACT kittenING OPPOSITE of what we want. It’s like being in an abusive relationship, and I’m looking forward to getting out of it.

That isn’t aimed at you personally Justin – thanks for always taking the time to respond calmly and politely, it is appreciated – it’s just unfortunate that Anet’s position is so consistently opposite the desires of the majority of the community.

Hey, don’t worry about it. I’m sorry you feel that way. Do keep in mind that this is just one more additional progression system. This may not be exactly what you are hoping for, but it may be what someone else enjoys.

We will have more to talk about regarding rewards soon™.

EverythingEnds.4261:

snip

1. Yes, this is somewhat of a pivot on our part, but I believe we are still holding true to our philosophy because this is a horizontal progression system. Every player is still equal in potential power as it is only the range of choice that is variable between players. Though, I will admit that there is potential for mistakes that cause temporary imbalances, but this is concern that goes beyond the scope of just this system.

If you’re worried about imbalances, hold us to our word when we make balance mistakes.

2. I disagree, but I do believe I understand where you are coming from. You have to understand that different people have different values and that we can’t cater to everyone, though we certainly try to do the best job we can.

3. I do not know the current plan, but the changes you suggested would be the same in kind.

4. A legitimate concern. It would be a worthwhile to debate (in another thread) just how expensive these unlocks should be. As I understand it though, we try to tune the price by the time it takes, so that paying in gold takes just as long as obtaining it through PvE.

Do you think PvP doesn’t make enough money? That’s fine, lets talk about that in another thread.

5. Another valid point. We will be in a better place to discuss this once the details of the new reward system are announced.

Lupanic.6502:

You really think if a new player is able to select from a pool of traits he is fine but if he gets 1 new trait per line he is lost? Come on.

Again, this system is forward looking. If we just unlocked the 40 new traits now, what about next time? It will always just be X more. We have to draw a line somewhere, and here is probably the best place to start.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

justin, could you confirm with us, that the newly unlocked traits would be account bound, once unlocked? because this is how it works for guild wars 1, once unlocked, is account wide. i expect the same in guild wars 2.

I don’t know, but I’ll bug Josh and Allie about it and see if they can get it answered on Ready Up tomorrow.

Lord Kuru.3685:

No. If you have more options than your opponent, then you are potentially more powerful because at worst you can have the same build as him.

That isn’t the worst case scenario, you could just as well have an inferior build because you chose options that don’t work well together or with your play style. More options make coming up with good builds increasingly difficult, especially for beginners, because there are so many more things to consider and each must be weighed against alternative choices (opportunity cost.)

Lord Kuru.3685:

Plus, “barring any balance issues” is actually a big deal. You can bet these will cause balance issues (unless they’re intentionally bad like the new healing skills).

Definitely a concern, but that will mean little to new players who don’t know the current state of balance anyways.